You used to be one of my top three TH-cam channels for Tesla, now you are just the TOP. Heard of LFP battery a lot, but never has one that is so comprehensive and articulate! You rock!
One good point is that LFP cells can be repeatedly charged to 100% and then discharged completely, without quickly causing cell degradation. This takes a little bite out of the energy advantage of cobalt based cells. Not entirely, but it means that the lower energy density of LFP cells is less of a problem than it seems.
Extra Observations: * No Cobalt in LFP cells (Nickel & Cobalt are the main constraints to mass production). * The chemicals in LFP are relatively green. * The cells have a long life and a deep charge / discharge depth; ideal for V2G.
I completely agree. Here in New Zealand we recently ordered a MIC Model 3 Standard Range Plus, and the more I learn about it's LFP battery, the more I am impressed. Tesla, in designing a highly optimized car with a highly efficient drive train and lightweight chassis, are able to fit a relatively heavy LFP battery and still get excellent range. None of the other car makers can use LFP and get good range at the same time. None. Even with high energy cobalt chemistry they struggle to match Tesla for range, so forget about them doing it with LFP.
Check out the BYD Yuan. $26,500 US , a 450 km range, a possibly even better LFP battery than the CATL battery used in the Tesla model 3 and a lot more models in their stable. A regular man's car.
CATL supplies all the batteries to giga Shanghai. CATL is also scoping out land in western Poland, probably as close to the giga Berlin plant as you can get.
LFP is the ideal chemistry for home solar/wind energy storage. ("PowerWall") I recommend enough capacity to run the home during its most demanding day for 24 hours, with no other source of power. That way, you're not "deep cycling" them on a daily basis, and will offer some reserve during prolonged outages, or, consecutive overcast days, where the panels/tiles just aren't producing enough.
Hi. Today I just came to know that India's Tata Motors who owns Jaguar is going to manufacture Semi Conductor. . can you say something on the global semi conductor Shortage.. until now Elon has said this on calls that they are having supply chain shortage, specially semi conductor, also i live in India and, Tata Motors who owns Jaguar Land Rower recently acknowledged the shortage and said it's going to hurt another quarter, and hearing a lot, One of India's oem Maruti Suzuki shut factory for 2-3 days bcos of this, also Just now one auro part manufacturer told today in their earnings call that he Heard from Auto companies that this shortage might continue from 12-18 months. I don't understand why ppl are not talking about this do you think this shortage is a bigger risk than anything else for Auto industry.
@@Rajesh312000 it takes about 18 months or more to make a semi conductor factory. So Elon probably thinks it is not worth it as the supply issue will be solved in time.
This is a very useful video. Thanks. May I ask for the source for the increase in battery demand 100 times in last 10 years (as of the date of the video)? I am doing a bit of research and it would be great to understand more about battery research. Thanks
I do hope that Elon is ‘grateful’ to China’s BYD, for showing him ‘the way forward’ with LiFePO4 😉 Ohh, and, for how, they also showed him how to maximise, EV battery-pack total Energy capacity, with the use of BYD’s own, unique, Blade-Battery format. 🙄 Now, let’s just also hope, that he’s smart enough to ‘understand’ the critical, need, for him to now secure near term “contracted” raw mined ...”Battery …Quality” Lithium supply, if he is to have any, hope, at all, of actually making, his own, Tesla Giga-Factory Batteries, because that ‘window of opportunity’ is now, rapidly closing. 🙄 While America and the rest of the West have all, been fast asleep at the wheel, for more than a decade now, on ‘what is coming’ with the now urgent global need, to transition transportation to EVs, the Chinese have been very, busy, ensuring, that ..they, are going to be the world leaders, in this new, EV Economic Arms Race..! 😳
So when will we get the Powerwall 3? We want to add LFP batteries to our current PV system and if Tesla doesn't get off the stick soon we will buy Enphase 5Ps to mate to our Enphase IQ8A micro-inverters.
"CATL are also investing into sodium-ion Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries" CATLs sodium ion uses a different active ion, different cathode material, different anode material, different electrolyte, even different current collector foils compared to LFP.
Huge geopolitical implications for America if this battery becomes the mainstream technology for EV's - no need for nickle, manganese, or cobalt, all of which are in short domestic supply, but lithium, phosphorus, and iron ore are more abundant in the US, and there are also abundant reserves in Canada and Mexico. True energy independence.
Cheaper price is more important to Chinese consumer than range otherwise they would not buy the $5000 death box that GM is involved . The 25K compact car is what they want
I really liked this talk but; Wish you had put up a pros vs cons chart to list out the differences in the different batteries so as to impart a better "understanding" by your "Explained" dissertation.
Yes, its great technology, but the Yuan only gets 250 miles NEDC, which stands for Not Even Dam Close, EPA is probably only 200 miles. Its also over $20k. But still a great value car, and enough for a lot of people.
It's true that the LFP doesn't get 300miles. But it does get 285m... Close enough for most people. I bought one in Europe simply because the extra 6k for a LR didn't make sense unless you drive more then 280miles in one drive often.
LFP might not be used for statonary storage as you say. The Na ion battery that CATL is working on, and many other forms of battery, both for domestic purposes and for firming renewables will be used as they are cheaper. With firming, as long as you have space there are some wild and wacky ideas out there, and you only need one of them to come to fruition and be very cheap and that will spell the end of the fossil fuel era as we know it.
Patents hold back innovation?? Would you spend billions inventing something that all your competitors could steal tomorrow for free? They prevent copying something that wouldn't exist in the first place without protection. Unless you like to work for free.
Gld to see that you've cottoned on to the LFP revolution - it's gonna be a game changer. Tesla already has a dedicated energy storage battery manufacturer BTW, Kato road in Ca. Energy storage is gonna be epic. It's been a millstone to date, but not for long. Interesting times.
July 4th from Menlo Park to Bishop, California, this was my last time I sat in car for 300 miles. I will likely do the same to LA in early September, a trip longer than Bishop California. Long trips in the US are lot more common than you think. From Menlo Park to Bishop is ~300 - 310 miles. No way am I confident in driving Model Y with 326 miles of range on a single charge especially having to cross over the Sierra. EV range is like computer RAM - don’t assume this is all we’ll ever need.
@@TeslaEconomist The more range you give to driver especially with Autopilot or FSD, the more driver will ‘drive’ - Jevon’s Paradox. I also tend to make long trips in most popular times - holidays. Each and everyday there will be more Teslas and we all want to take road trips especially if it is super easy with Autopilot/FSD. It will be interesting to see how Tesla in the coming years solve the holiday problem. We all want to travel on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas for us here in the US.
Actually liquid metal batteries are much better solution for grid and Industrial use. And the devised implementation makes them very cheap and environmentally friendly.
If there were a bot that could roll under the car (parked in a charging row at a parking lot), you could just tell the car when you’ll be back and it would charge from a connection under the car and move on when done. Even some kind of robotic arm for the home garage floor would be good. Seems easier to do than self driving or making a reusable space capsule. I think lasers and magnets could be used for positioning. I hope Tesla makes it.
@teslaeconomist: 300 miles is not sufficient for the vast western United States. Or need more charging at destinations that are not near an interstate. Even our S LR+ cannot go to certain places like the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. Maybe LFP for the second/commuter car.
300 miles would be perfect for my commute. 100 miles one way. I go on Monday and every third Sunday, come home on Wednesday. All flat terrain. Right in the middle of petrochemical land.
New Batts have a lower temp of catching off. FYI perhaps if the big oil companies didn't kill off the 100mpg tech from the 50s we wouldn't be where we are today
We are fast running out of available copper and soon only mined copper will be available. Been concerned about this lately as it seems the one commodity everyone is overlooking. Renewables are insanely copper intensive as are electric motors for EVs. If Tesla are gonna ramp up, they are going to need a metric shit-ton of the stuff which will mean available copper will dry up fast and we will be relying entirely as a race upon mining and refining of it for perhaps the first time since the bronze age. Do any ARK funds have investments for this? Because it's slim pickings for viable companies. Jetti Resources: I wish! Private company with a new 3x more efficient and green copper extraction technique to extract it from low-grade sulphide deposits like CuS (chalcocite), CuS (covellite) and CuFeS(chalcopyrite) which contain 70% of Earth's mineral copper. Hoping for an IPO, but since they just raised $50mill, probably no time soon. BUT which companies are it's major investors? Maybe profit by proxy is possible I thought. There are 4 main ones...Canadian Government: We'll need to wait for an IPO. lol Not sure it's a wise investment though. Mitsubishi: Pass. Jetti profits will not negate losses in ICE obsolescence.BHP: Likely safe bet for profit if you don't mind blood and environmental degradation on your conscience. Not for me. Also, too heavy into fossil fuels so again copper profits might not mitigate losses. Vedanta (VEDL): Up 87+% YTD and likely to keep going. HUGE copper producer themselves which is a bonus plus zinc, aluminium, silver and steel. Unfortunately they are also into oil and gas, plus they are building coal-fire power stations in India. I'm still trying to track down their financials to assess the breakdown (% evil to awesome breakdown), but I can't bring myself to invest in it. It will likely be lucrative for the less pedantically scrupulous investor though. So if anyone is interested, do your due diligence and take a look.Such a shame. I'd happily go long on Jetti, given half a chance. Does anyone know of any other companies that mine lots of copper? Really hoping ARK have beaten me to it.
Any news on TESLA HVAC? Test drove a model Y recently and was impressed (and I'm an ice guy - saw a plaid too, pictures/videos of plaid don't convey how impressive it looks (it had a Yoke - takes a little to get used to but worked for me)). Maybe in the future TESLA could offer special home packages for solar/powerwall/HVAC and car so you could be completely off grid - maybe an option to join a new TESLA grid that consists of you and your TESLA neighbors sharing power needs.
Should be a hit with commuters and folks who can't charge at home every night. You can charge to 100% and discharge them deeply. So when you have access to overnight charging, where you share a charger, you can get the full 100% and have the full range until you get overnight charger again on rotation. If you run low, can top off at a supercharger if you drive more then usual.
Are there any formulas or tables of data for time to ramp up a process or production? Certainly we have Wrights law for production cost. Is there some way to estimate how fast the the market can respond to known demand? Like scaling design and production like in ww2 ? Or more recently, it was obvious that masks and hand sanitizer would be needed when COVID-19 began. Some industrial engineer somewhere might have a rough rule of thumb that could be applicable to LFP batteries.
By the time Tesla's LFP battery is out, then they should have perfect the 4680 line, I am hoping the LFP line should be able to take advantage of most of those breakthroughs. The raw materials are far more abundant, so shouldn't be an issue. So it might just be a matter of finding enough engineers to set up enough production lines. Tesla require about 1/10th the floor space of the other battery manufacturers, so should be able to ramp up significantly quicker.
I use A 2023 model 3 as an Uber driver. I have enough charge to drive all day. 200 miles in a day as an Uber is a very long day driving. I would not use more then the car gives me now anyway. I still drive Kia Soul gas car for long trips. I enjoy the option of both .
sodium ion will be the future , as all it's ingredients are abundant , LFP is held back by lithium availability and cost, and if i was rich the tesla plaid with it's nickel based battery pack would be straight in my basket,
the LFP chemistry is patents by the Chinese companies from Universities in China. The problem is that they have a contract for 10 years before making this patent for all.
I question the superior safety claims of LFP relative to LION. Please reference the testing that supports that assertion. I watched another video questioning the LFP safety mainly due to the claims of safety originating from China. To date, the safety claims have been made by various channels without supporting data. Maybe I just missed something somewhere. This is an important question relative to any chemistry or cell/battery form factor. Thank you for responding in advance.
@ Tesla Economist.. Today I just came to know that India's Tata Motors who owns Jaguar is going to manufacture Semi Conductor. Is it may be bcos it know that this problem may continue for long term or it is utilizing the oppotunity or cash perfectly which Tesla is not doing & is investing in Bitcoin instead.. . can you say something on the global semi conductor Shortage.. until now Elon has said this on calls that they are having supply chain shortage, specially semi conductor, also i live in India and, Tata Motors who owns Jaguar Land Rower recently acknowledged the shortage and said it's going to hurt another quarter, and hearing a lot, One of India's oem Maruti Suzuki shut factory for 2-3 days bcos of this, also Just now one auro part manufacturer told today in their earnings call that he Heard from Auto companies that this shortage might continue from 12-18 months. I don't understand why ppl are not talking about this do you think this shortage is a bigger risk than anything else for Auto industry.
@Peter, Well, ..first of ..all, they need reliable, contracted supply, of raw mined ..”Battery ..Quality” Lithium, because without ..THAT, both you, and Elon, can forget about 4680, ..EVERYTHING…! 🙄
@@TeslaEconomist Exactly, they keep the battery production quiet. I have a feeling that like they are going to do in Austin and Berlin they will move cell production of the LFP to new Megapack MFG facilities which will only increase margin and production rate. 2022 will be the year of the LFP and Tesla Energy. We know the Megapack is sold out through 2022 but what we don’t know is the full production capabilities for these and I have a “feeling” we and the street are going to be blown away at what that will be. SNEAK ATTACK
We are fast running out of available copper and soon only mined copper will be available (for the first time perhaps since the Bronze Age). Been concerned about this lately as it seems the one commodity everyone is overlooking. Renewables are insanely copper intensive as are electric motors for EVs. If Tesla are gonna ramp up, they are going to need a metric shit-ton of the stuff which will mean available copper will dry up fast and we will be relying entirely as a race upon mining and refining of it for perhaps the first time since the bronze age. Do any ARK funds have investments for this? Because it's slim pickings for viable companies. Jetti Resources: I wish! Private company with a new 3x more efficient and green copper extraction technique to extract it from low-grade sulphide deposits like CuS (chalcocite), CuS (covellite) and CuFeS(chalcopyrite) which contain 70% of Earth's mineral copper. Hoping for an IPO, but since they just raised $50mill, probably no time soon. BUT which companies are it's major investors? Maybe profit by proxy is possible I thought. There are 4 main ones...Canadian Government: We'll need to wait for an IPO. lol Not sure it's a wise investment though. Mitsubishi: Pass. Jetti profits will not negate losses in ICE obsolescence. BHP: Likely safe bet for profit if you don't mind blood and environmental degradation on your conscience. Not for me. Also, too heavy into fossil fuels so again copper profits might not mitigate losses. Vedanta (VEDL): Up 87+% YTD and likely to keep going. HUGE copper producer themselves which is a bonus plus zinc, aluminium, silver and steel. Unfortunately they are also into oil and gas, plus they are building coal-fire power stations in India. I'm still trying to track down their financials to assess the breakdown (% evil to awesome breakdown), but I can't bring myself to invest in it. It will likely be lucrative for the less pedantically scrupulous investor though. So if anyone is interested, do your due diligence and take a look.Such a shame. I'd happily go long on Jetti, given half a chance. Does anyone know of any other companies that mine lots of copper? Really hoping ARK have beaten me to it.
Here’s a video idea. Take a look at page 24 of the Tesla Impact report. To my knowledge, nobody has talked about the change in policy for EV Semis. The impact report mentions that regulations have changed to allow an additional .9 Tons GVW (1000lbs) in the US, and 2 Tons (4400lbs) in EU. I haven’t seen this covered or announced *anywhere*. Consider what this means using really rough math. A 75kwh battery pack on the Model 3 is about 1000lbs, multiply by 2, and an extra 2,000lbs could be an extra 150kwh to the bottom line battery pack. And at 0.5 miles per kWh, this could be an extra 75 miles, or a 15-25% increase in range for the 500 mile and 300 mile Semis, respectively. I couldn’t find any government websites that confirm this, or that announce the policy change, but take a look a this article about Freightliner’s test fleet. www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/amp36506185/electric-big-rig-semi-trucks/ 99% of the article is fluff, but notice that they mention the GVW is 82,000lbs, exactly 2k over the Class 8 Semi Limit. Worth a video, IMHO. Sharing with my favorites: SMR, Dave Lee, TE, TD.
Elon did say that eventually Battery Storage might get to be bigger Bznz that the Auto bznz, the world does need Energy Storage to get of oil, imagine utility companies buying them for storing Wind and Solar produced Electricity for when the sun dont shine and the wind dont blow.
LFP batteries are not recyclable.. at some point, these LFP cells will come to the end of life. What are we going to that then? Even disposing of it will be an issue due to Phosphoric acid..
We need to transition to green energy sources such as nuclear and nuclear. Oh, and don't forget nuclear. EDIT: And for the Peter Zeihan followers, we should also get some newkular power in the mix.
Wkwkwk. Sebenarnya dua duanya ga salah. Tesla memang masih pakek Nikel untuk saat ini. Tapi dia planning buat shifting dari nikel ke LFP. Jadi kalau bicara masa depan emang bener kata pak Tom, pakeknya LFP bukan nikel.
@@achmad6962ini sama kayak mau makan roti apa nasi. dua duanya sama sama bikin kenyang, kalo di barat lebih memilih roti sebagai makanan pokok. di asia lebih memilih nasi sebagai makanan pokok. jadi kalo ini pilihan yg relatif sama sebenarnya fungsinya baik batre lithium maupun nikel ini, ya mending kita beli baterai nikel yg produksi sendiri. ngapain kita beli produk orang lain. jadi kalaupun nanti kita gagal menguasai pasar baterai global, setidaknya pasar baterai dalam negeri kita kuasai lah
@@OhMantab nasi dan roti soal selera, tetapi baterai soal efisiensi, suka-suka pengusaha mau pakai apa. Lagipula kapasitas penyimpanan LFP lebih besar daripada NMC. Secara pragmatis dari sisi konsumen, jelas lebih pilih yang penyimpanan lebih besar dan lebih merah. Pengusaha kalau melawan kehendak konsumen, bangkrut.
@@nerbanjarnahor pengusaha melawan kehendak pemerintah jg bangkrut. pemerintah bisa batesin produk LFP masuk indonesia. sama seperti negara eropa yg batesin produk2 china masuk negaranya. produk china/asia tenggara itu murah2 biaya produksinya ya karena tenaga kerja jg masih murah. dan lebih efisien, masalah kualitas produk china gk kalah. tapi eropa bela2in melindungi industri dalam negeri mereka, padahal secara harga lebih murah mereka impor aja. jd gk cuma kehendak konsumen faktornya. ada pemerintah, pemerintah berkepentingan bahan baku lokal laku, terjadi ekosistem industri.
LFP batteries have an energy density of approx 200W/Kg. Until the battery industry can get that to a minimum of 2500W/Kg or even better at 5000W/Kg, which would be parity with diesel, you are wasting everybody's time. Then you need to be able to 150KW-200KW into a car in 5 mins. Good luck with that. Until that happens, diesel rules.
I'd love to see you do a video about hybrids and the myth that hybrids are "green". The battery capacity of some hybrids is truly laughable and consumers are being fooled into thinking they are on par with BEVs.
it would be SO great if the semi truck would have solar all over on the haul trailers as well with more batteries as well PLUS motors on the trail wheels too!! tell ELON i said so.. LOLhaha..
I think you have that backwards. Cylindrical is best for battery manufacturers and prismatic is best for auto manufacturers. Excluding Tesla this is how it is perceived.
I read prismatic was "easiest" for the battery manufacturers. Easiest might not necessary mean best. I would say cylindrical can be produced fastest, but that doesn't mean the manufacturing would be the easiest.
@Thaddeus, Agree..! BYD’s unique Blade-Battery format, is ..the most efficient, form factor for EV production as far as available space utilisation, and maximum energy density capability, per available space. Ohh, and did I happen to mention that they don’t catch fire either..? 🙄 But, they are Chinese, so we won’t mention them here..! 🙄😉
@W A cylindrical is superior, Tesla's 4680 batteries are even cheaper than BYD's Blade batteries, and they use nickel, Tesla's LFP cylindrical batteries will be better again.
You used to be one of my top three TH-cam channels for Tesla, now you are just the TOP. Heard of LFP battery a lot, but never has one that is so comprehensive and articulate! You rock!
thanks, I do appreciate all the motivation I get from everyone
I agree. This approach would be best way to start monitoring FSD as it involves predominantly high way driving.
Thank you both (I could copy paste this comment)
One good point is that LFP cells can be repeatedly charged to 100% and then discharged completely, without quickly causing cell degradation.
This takes a little bite out of the energy advantage of cobalt based cells. Not entirely, but it means that the lower energy density of LFP cells is less of a problem than it seems.
Extra Observations:
* No Cobalt in LFP cells (Nickel & Cobalt are the main constraints to mass production).
* The chemicals in LFP are relatively green.
* The cells have a long life and a deep charge / discharge depth; ideal for V2G.
I have a Tesla Model Y LFP in Canada. LFP is the main reason I bought it. It's perfect in every way. I would never consider the other battery types.
I completely agree. Here in New Zealand we recently ordered a MIC Model 3 Standard Range Plus, and the more I learn about it's LFP battery, the more I am impressed. Tesla, in designing a highly optimized car with a highly efficient drive train and lightweight chassis, are able to fit a relatively heavy LFP battery and still get excellent range. None of the other car makers can use LFP and get good range at the same time. None. Even with high energy cobalt chemistry they struggle to match Tesla for range, so forget about them doing it with LFP.
Check out the BYD Yuan. $26,500 US , a 450 km range, a possibly even better LFP battery than the CATL battery used in the Tesla model 3 and a lot more models in their stable. A regular man's car.
All the answers are in nature, it’s just how you use it!
Hard to believe you only have 23k subscribers. This is great content. Ty! Keep it up!
Props, you were quite early calling this one !
CATL supplies all the batteries to giga Shanghai. CATL is also scoping out land in western Poland, probably as close to the giga Berlin plant as you can get.
you are the second best youtuber talking about tesla. solving the money problem is Nº1. Your style is more formal but well thought. Good job.
While I do like SMR on Solving the money problem, he’s somewhat prone to hyperbole. TE tops the pole for facts and truth well told.
SMR is the best Tesla TH-camr for high use of profanity and calling people morons, if that's your thing.
@@michelangelobuonarroti916 Some people need a wake up call.
Tesla are currently using prismatic cells for the current Model 3 Sr+, great video on LFP & Tesla. I had no idea the LFP cars had structural packs.
Good coverage. I heard the LFPs can be charged to 100% daily as a routine, no problem. Thus better mileage
Sure.
It won't catch on fire would it?
LFP is the ideal chemistry for home solar/wind energy storage. ("PowerWall") I recommend enough capacity to run the home during its most demanding day for 24 hours, with no other source of power. That way, you're not "deep cycling" them on a daily basis, and will offer some reserve during prolonged outages, or, consecutive overcast days, where the panels/tiles just aren't producing enough.
Suggestion for future video: What if Tesla ran their own fleet of semis with FSD and slowly captured the market?
I do have a semi video in the making. It does touch on it. Clever minds....
Hi.
Today I just came to know that India's Tata Motors who owns Jaguar is going to manufacture Semi Conductor.
. can you say something on the global semi conductor Shortage.. until now Elon has said this on calls that they are having supply chain shortage, specially semi conductor, also i live in India and, Tata Motors who owns Jaguar Land Rower recently acknowledged the shortage and said it's going to hurt another quarter, and hearing a lot, One of India's oem Maruti Suzuki shut factory for 2-3 days bcos of this, also Just now one auro part manufacturer told today in their earnings call that he Heard from Auto companies that this shortage might continue from 12-18 months.
I don't understand why ppl are not talking about this do you think this shortage is a bigger risk than anything else for Auto industry.
Ok hahaha. You clearly know nothing about trucking
@@Rajesh312000 it takes about 18 months or more to make a semi conductor factory. So Elon probably thinks it is not worth it as the supply issue will be solved in time.
or RV and mobile house…
This is a very useful video. Thanks. May I ask for the source for the increase in battery demand 100 times in last 10 years (as of the date of the video)? I am doing a bit of research and it would be great to understand more about battery research. Thanks
LFP battery for Tesla model 3 Long range?
TE Rocks! Very insightful analysis on all aspects economic.
And is he still Teslaless? #M3forTE (unless he prefers a Model Y) to correct this injustice.
What about BYD's Blade battery?
Its a great battery, but still at about $70 kWh, Tesla's 4680 Nickel batteries can even undercut that.
@@TeslaEconomist let's see what the cooperation between Tesla and BYD entails
I would imagine that the blade battery are much cheaper to build into packs
I do hope that Elon is ‘grateful’ to China’s BYD, for showing him ‘the way forward’ with LiFePO4 😉
Ohh, and, for how, they also showed him how to maximise, EV battery-pack total Energy capacity, with the use of BYD’s own, unique, Blade-Battery format. 🙄
Now, let’s just also hope, that he’s smart enough to ‘understand’ the critical, need, for him to now secure near term “contracted” raw mined ...”Battery …Quality” Lithium supply, if he is to have any, hope, at all, of actually making, his own, Tesla Giga-Factory Batteries, because that ‘window of opportunity’ is now, rapidly closing. 🙄
While America and the rest of the West have all, been fast asleep at the wheel, for more than a decade now, on ‘what is coming’ with the now urgent global need, to transition transportation to EVs, the Chinese have been very, busy, ensuring, that ..they, are going to be the world leaders, in this new, EV Economic Arms Race..! 😳
So when will we get the Powerwall 3? We want to add LFP batteries to our current PV system and if Tesla doesn't get off the stick soon we will buy Enphase 5Ps to mate to our Enphase IQ8A micro-inverters.
Nice video. I would like to know if Tesla could improve the zero to 60 times on the model 3 SR with a different motor?
How about using Solar Roof on Car's body? Or a Flywheel Generator?
4:06 please elaborate
"CATL are also investing into sodium-ion Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries"
CATLs sodium ion uses a different active ion, different cathode material, different anode material, different electrolyte, even different current collector foils compared to LFP.
Have been looking at LFP for a while. It would be amazing to be able to DC as much as you want and don't have to worry about SoC
Thanks you are one of the best !
Iron also has a better current inrush capability. That is why the LiFePo batteries are used for starter batteries.
Huge geopolitical implications for America if this battery becomes the mainstream technology for EV's - no need for nickle, manganese, or cobalt, all of which are in short domestic supply, but lithium, phosphorus, and iron ore are more abundant in the US, and there are also abundant reserves in Canada and Mexico. True energy independence.
Why not call it LiFePO4?, for a moment I thought it was a new battery chemistry
I thought everyone already knew that, but I suppose not. LFP is easier to type I suppose.
What about the fire hazard differences? Is any damage or cut to cell cause lfp to explode?
Cheaper price is more important to Chinese consumer than range otherwise they would not buy the $5000 death box that GM is involved . The 25K compact car is what they want
I really liked this talk but; Wish you had put up a pros vs cons chart to list out the differences in the different batteries so as to impart a better "understanding" by your "Explained" dissertation.
BYD has already achieved 300 miles range with lithium phosphate blade battery @ $15k. Byd Yuan pro.
Yes, its great technology, but the Yuan only gets 250 miles NEDC, which stands for Not Even Dam Close, EPA is probably only 200 miles. Its also over $20k. But still a great value car, and enough for a lot of people.
Living in PA .. Winter some days can be -5F, 10F .. charging only 110v, driving 20 - 30 miles daily, it’s worth it?
It's true that the LFP doesn't get 300miles. But it does get 285m... Close enough for most people. I bought one in Europe simply because the extra 6k for a LR didn't make sense unless you drive more then 280miles in one drive often.
whats up with the sound
no mention of BYD
LFP might not be used for statonary storage as you say. The Na ion battery that CATL is working on, and many other forms of battery, both for domestic purposes and for firming renewables will be used as they are cheaper. With firming, as long as you have space there are some wild and wacky ideas out there, and you only need one of them to come to fruition and be very cheap and that will spell the end of the fossil fuel era as we know it.
Patents hold back innovation?? Would you spend billions inventing something that all your competitors could steal tomorrow for free? They prevent copying something that wouldn't exist in the first place without protection. Unless you like to work for free.
Yeah but they go too far sometimes
Gld to see that you've cottoned on to the LFP revolution - it's gonna be a game changer. Tesla already has a dedicated energy storage battery manufacturer BTW, Kato road in Ca. Energy storage is gonna be epic. It's been a millstone to date, but not for long. Interesting times.
300 mile range is only on nice days at slower speeds. In the winter, expect only 60% range. We need 400 to 500 mile range.
That used to be an issue, but Tesla heat up the batteries to prevent losing so much range in colder temperatures.
Those numbers were from our MY last winter in low temps going 75 mpg. Temps around 5-20 Fahrenheit
If you are always on the road, maybe you should buy a diesel car.
What about the plans to dispose all the batteries at the end of its life cycle?
With a life of 1,000,000 miles followed by another 20 years service in a MegaPack, I’m not seeing the urgency. Please explain.
Check Redwood Materials.
See Tesla 2020 Impact Report. They have a recycling process that recovers 92% of the elements from the old batteries. It's cheaper than mining.
Will Tesla's "recommended charging stops" account for LFP vs. Nickel when the AI recommends places to stop?
It seems to when you specify your model.
July 4th from Menlo Park to Bishop, California, this was my last time I sat in car for 300 miles. I will likely do the same to LA in early September, a trip longer than Bishop California. Long trips in the US are lot more common than you think. From Menlo Park to Bishop is ~300 - 310 miles. No way am I confident in driving Model Y with 326 miles of range on a single charge especially having to cross over the Sierra. EV range is like computer RAM - don’t assume this is all we’ll ever need.
Even that is 2 months apart, in this scenario you will have to wait 10 mins to charge every 2 months, I would have thought that would be acceptable.
@@TeslaEconomist The more range you give to driver especially with Autopilot or FSD, the more driver will ‘drive’ - Jevon’s Paradox. I also tend to make long trips in most popular times - holidays. Each and everyday there will be more Teslas and we all want to take road trips especially if it is super easy with Autopilot/FSD. It will be interesting to see how Tesla in the coming years solve the holiday problem. We all want to travel on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas for us here in the US.
Sodium ion with iron battery is future? No nickel or lithium to reduce cost
no.
Why not triangle shaped batteries
Actually liquid metal batteries are much better solution for grid and Industrial use.
And the devised implementation makes them very cheap and environmentally friendly.
Expaining Teslas advantage like a boss , you need an interview with Elon , Sir .
If there were a bot that could roll under the car (parked in a charging row at a parking lot), you could just tell the car when you’ll be back and it would charge from a connection under the car and move on when done. Even some kind of robotic arm for the home garage floor would be good. Seems easier to do than self driving or making a reusable space capsule. I think lasers and magnets could be used for positioning. I hope Tesla makes it.
@teslaeconomist: 300 miles is not sufficient for the vast western United States. Or need more charging at destinations that are not near an interstate. Even our S LR+ cannot go to certain places like the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. Maybe LFP for the second/commuter car.
300 miles would be perfect for my commute. 100 miles one way. I go on Monday and every third Sunday, come home on Wednesday. All flat terrain. Right in the middle of petrochemical land.
Sounds like a lot of overcapacity for batteries in Berlin, do we think they may build power walls and mega packs for Europe as well
With LFP and 300 mile range that would doit for me and I would buy that over the LR model 3.
do Na ion battery
New Batts have a lower temp of catching off. FYI perhaps if the big oil companies didn't kill off the 100mpg tech from the 50s we wouldn't be where we are today
I've, very much, enjoyed owning several lithium stocks, since last year, and they're still going up.
We are fast running out of available copper and soon only mined copper will be available. Been concerned about this lately as it seems the one commodity everyone is overlooking. Renewables are insanely copper intensive as are electric motors for EVs. If Tesla are gonna ramp up, they are going to need a metric shit-ton of the stuff which will mean available copper will dry up fast and we will be relying entirely as a race upon mining and refining of it for perhaps the first time since the bronze age. Do any ARK funds have investments for this? Because it's slim pickings for viable companies.
Jetti Resources:
I wish! Private company with a new 3x more efficient and green copper extraction technique to extract it from low-grade sulphide deposits like CuS (chalcocite), CuS (covellite) and CuFeS(chalcopyrite) which contain 70% of Earth's mineral copper. Hoping for an IPO, but since they just raised $50mill, probably no time soon. BUT which companies are it's major investors? Maybe profit by proxy is possible I thought. There are 4 main ones...Canadian Government: We'll need to wait for an IPO. lol Not sure it's a wise investment though.
Mitsubishi:
Pass. Jetti profits will not negate losses in ICE obsolescence.BHP: Likely safe bet for profit if you don't mind blood and environmental degradation on your conscience. Not for me. Also, too heavy into fossil fuels so again copper profits might not mitigate losses.
Vedanta (VEDL):
Up 87+% YTD and likely to keep going. HUGE copper producer themselves which is a bonus plus zinc, aluminium, silver and steel. Unfortunately they are also into oil and gas, plus they are building coal-fire power stations in India. I'm still trying to track down their financials to assess the breakdown (% evil to awesome breakdown), but I can't bring myself to invest in it. It will likely be lucrative for the less pedantically scrupulous investor though. So if anyone is interested, do your due diligence and take a look.Such a shame. I'd happily go long on Jetti, given half a chance. Does anyone know of any other companies that mine lots of copper? Really hoping ARK have beaten me to it.
Who do you use
Perfect!
I only wish the speaker would speak a little bit slower….
You can change the speed to 0.75.
The single-motor CyberTruck with 250 mile range on LFP seems easily achievable.
I agree
How much money, materials and energy does it take to make the batteries and the car. More than making a regular gas car!!
u literally just said throw away the 4680 production lines 3:40....
Any news on TESLA HVAC? Test drove a model Y recently and was impressed (and I'm an ice guy - saw a plaid too, pictures/videos of plaid don't convey how impressive it looks (it had a Yoke - takes a little to get used to but worked for me)). Maybe in the future TESLA could offer special home packages for solar/powerwall/HVAC and car so you could be completely off grid - maybe an option to join a new TESLA grid that consists of you and your TESLA neighbors sharing power needs.
I just recorded and HVAC video today
Should be a hit with commuters and folks who can't charge at home every night. You can charge to 100% and discharge them deeply. So when you have access to overnight charging, where you share a charger, you can get the full 100% and have the full range until you get overnight charger again on rotation. If you run low, can top off at a supercharger if you drive more then usual.
LFP charges faster? Is that what you said? That conflicts with everything I’ve heard.
Are there any formulas or tables of data for time to ramp up a process or production? Certainly we have Wrights law for production cost. Is there some way to estimate how fast the the market can respond to known demand? Like scaling design and production like in ww2 ? Or more recently, it was obvious that masks and hand sanitizer would be needed when COVID-19 began. Some industrial engineer somewhere might have a rough rule of thumb that could be applicable to LFP batteries.
By the time Tesla's LFP battery is out, then they should have perfect the 4680 line, I am hoping the LFP line should be able to take advantage of most of those breakthroughs. The raw materials are far more abundant, so shouldn't be an issue. So it might just be a matter of finding enough engineers to set up enough production lines.
Tesla require about 1/10th the floor space of the other battery manufacturers, so should be able to ramp up significantly quicker.
Masks and hand sanitizers were obvious to all but the MAGAs. That's still the case.
@Henry, Suggest you plug “Benchmark Mineral Intelligence” into a TH-cam Search Bar, and start watching/listening/reading..! 😉
So are the LFPs going in the power walls for the most part? What's the estimated price and when is mass production expected in the US?
1:30 advantages
I use A 2023 model 3 as an Uber driver. I have enough charge to drive all day. 200 miles in a day as an Uber is a very long day driving. I would not use more then the car gives me now anyway. I still drive Kia Soul gas car for long trips. I enjoy the option of both .
sodium ion will be the future , as all it's ingredients are abundant , LFP is held back by lithium availability and cost, and if i was rich the tesla plaid with it's nickel based battery pack would be straight in my basket,
The World needs 500Wh/kg energy density A.S,A,P , current LFP can reach 350Wh/kg what next ?
the LFP chemistry is patents by the Chinese companies from Universities in China. The problem is that they have a contract for 10 years before making this patent for all.
Remind me to care about honoring Chinese intellectual property.
We are not replacing 1 to 1. Fewer younger people own cars. They live in cities and use an app to get rides or cars to drive.
I question the superior safety claims of LFP relative to LION. Please reference the testing that supports that assertion. I watched another video questioning the LFP safety mainly due to the claims of safety originating from China. To date, the safety claims have been made by various channels without supporting data. Maybe I just missed something somewhere. This is an important question relative to any chemistry or cell/battery form factor. Thank you for responding in advance.
@ Tesla Economist..
Today I just came to know that India's Tata Motors who owns Jaguar is going to manufacture Semi Conductor. Is it may be bcos it know that this problem may continue for long term or it is utilizing the oppotunity or cash perfectly which Tesla is not doing & is investing in Bitcoin instead..
. can you say something on the global semi conductor Shortage.. until now Elon has said this on calls that they are having supply chain shortage, specially semi conductor, also i live in India and, Tata Motors who owns Jaguar Land Rower recently acknowledged the shortage and said it's going to hurt another quarter, and hearing a lot, One of India's oem Maruti Suzuki shut factory for 2-3 days bcos of this, also Just now one auro part manufacturer told today in their earnings call that he Heard from Auto companies that this shortage might continue from 12-18 months.
I don't understand why ppl are not talking about this do you think this shortage is a bigger risk than anything else for Auto industry.
2:22 Will probably be called NFP. I doubt these batteries will have both Li and Na.
Yes, I suppose that would make logical sense
CATLs sodium-ion will not have FP either. the chemistry is totally different and has nothing to do with LFP.
You don't hear too much about Giga Nevada. How about building it out to its projected specs and pumping 4680 cells out of there?
We hear that Panasonic have been testing 4680s there as early as April this year.
@Peter, Well, ..first of ..all, they need reliable, contracted supply, of raw mined ..”Battery ..Quality” Lithium, because without ..THAT, both you, and Elon, can forget about 4680, ..EVERYTHING…! 🙄
@@TeslaEconomist Exactly, they keep the battery production quiet. I have a feeling that like they are going to do in Austin and Berlin they will move cell production of the LFP to new Megapack MFG facilities which will only increase margin and production rate. 2022 will be the year of the LFP and Tesla Energy. We know the Megapack is sold out through 2022 but what we don’t know is the full production capabilities for these and I have a “feeling” we and the street are going to be blown away at what that will be. SNEAK ATTACK
LFP batteries are good for large electric vechicles I think.
can we make the nuclear batteries already...
Tesla didn't "invent" LFP. Leon certainly didn't. John Goodenough did, RIP. Blocked for insinuating otherwise.
2025 chevy bolt would have that type of battery.
We are fast running out of available copper and soon only mined copper will be available (for the first time perhaps since the Bronze Age). Been concerned about this lately as it seems the one commodity everyone is overlooking. Renewables are insanely copper intensive as are electric motors for EVs. If Tesla are gonna ramp up, they are going to need a metric shit-ton of the stuff which will mean available copper will dry up fast and we will be relying entirely as a race upon mining and refining of it for perhaps the first time since the bronze age. Do any ARK funds have investments for this? Because it's slim pickings for viable companies.
Jetti Resources:
I wish! Private company with a new 3x more efficient and green copper extraction technique to extract it from low-grade sulphide deposits like CuS (chalcocite), CuS (covellite) and CuFeS(chalcopyrite) which contain 70% of Earth's mineral copper. Hoping for an IPO, but since they just raised $50mill, probably no time soon. BUT which companies are it's major investors? Maybe profit by proxy is possible I thought. There are 4 main ones...Canadian Government: We'll need to wait for an IPO. lol Not sure it's a wise investment though.
Mitsubishi:
Pass. Jetti profits will not negate losses in ICE obsolescence.
BHP:
Likely safe bet for profit if you don't mind blood and environmental degradation on your conscience. Not for me. Also, too heavy into fossil fuels so again copper profits might not mitigate losses.
Vedanta (VEDL):
Up 87+% YTD and likely to keep going. HUGE copper producer themselves which is a bonus plus zinc, aluminium, silver and steel. Unfortunately they are also into oil and gas, plus they are building coal-fire power stations in India. I'm still trying to track down their financials to assess the breakdown (% evil to awesome breakdown), but I can't bring myself to invest in it. It will likely be lucrative for the less pedantically scrupulous investor though. So if anyone is interested, do your due diligence and take a look.Such a shame. I'd happily go long on Jetti, given half a chance. Does anyone know of any other companies that mine lots of copper? Really hoping ARK have beaten me to it.
Maybe they’ll move to aluminium?
A small plasric fuel tank filled with a liquid fuel still has many times more energy.
Mckenna Lakes
2% of all auto sales. Wasn’t 2021 6.6 million EV’s out of 66?
Here’s a video idea.
Take a look at page 24 of the Tesla Impact report.
To my knowledge, nobody has talked about the change in policy for EV Semis. The impact report mentions that regulations have changed to allow an additional .9 Tons GVW (1000lbs) in the US, and 2 Tons (4400lbs) in EU.
I haven’t seen this covered or announced *anywhere*. Consider what this means using really rough math. A 75kwh battery pack on the Model 3 is about 1000lbs, multiply by 2, and an extra 2,000lbs could be an extra 150kwh to the bottom line battery pack. And at 0.5 miles per kWh, this could be an extra 75 miles, or a 15-25% increase in range for the 500 mile and 300 mile Semis, respectively.
I couldn’t find any government websites that confirm this, or that announce the policy change, but take a look a this article about Freightliner’s test fleet.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/amp36506185/electric-big-rig-semi-trucks/
99% of the article is fluff, but notice that they mention the GVW is 82,000lbs, exactly 2k over the Class 8 Semi Limit.
Worth a video, IMHO.
Sharing with my favorites: SMR, Dave Lee, TE, TD.
Love :3
Elon did say that eventually Battery Storage might get to be bigger Bznz that the Auto bznz, the world does need Energy Storage to get of oil, imagine utility companies buying them for storing Wind and Solar produced Electricity for when the sun dont shine and the wind dont blow.
Needing 50x the current amount of batteries is all you need to know why EVs are not the solution
LFP batteries are not recyclable.. at some point, these LFP cells will come to the end of life. What are we going to that then? Even disposing of it will be an issue due to Phosphoric acid..
We need to transition to green energy sources such as nuclear and nuclear.
Oh, and don't forget nuclear.
EDIT: And for the Peter Zeihan followers, we should also get some newkular power in the mix.
Siapa yang kesini habis nonton debat Cawapres Gibran vs Cak Imim ?
Hadir✋️
Wkwkwk. Sebenarnya dua duanya ga salah. Tesla memang masih pakek Nikel untuk saat ini. Tapi dia planning buat shifting dari nikel ke LFP. Jadi kalau bicara masa depan emang bener kata pak Tom, pakeknya LFP bukan nikel.
@@achmad6962ini sama kayak mau makan roti apa nasi. dua duanya sama sama bikin kenyang, kalo di barat lebih memilih roti sebagai makanan pokok. di asia lebih memilih nasi sebagai makanan pokok.
jadi kalo ini pilihan yg relatif sama sebenarnya fungsinya baik batre lithium maupun nikel ini, ya mending kita beli baterai nikel yg produksi sendiri. ngapain kita beli produk orang lain.
jadi kalaupun nanti kita gagal menguasai pasar baterai global, setidaknya pasar baterai dalam negeri kita kuasai lah
@@OhMantab nasi dan roti soal selera, tetapi baterai soal efisiensi, suka-suka pengusaha mau pakai apa. Lagipula kapasitas penyimpanan LFP lebih besar daripada NMC. Secara pragmatis dari sisi konsumen, jelas lebih pilih yang penyimpanan lebih besar dan lebih merah. Pengusaha kalau melawan kehendak konsumen, bangkrut.
@@nerbanjarnahor pengusaha melawan kehendak pemerintah jg bangkrut. pemerintah bisa batesin produk LFP masuk indonesia. sama seperti negara eropa yg batesin produk2 china masuk negaranya. produk china/asia tenggara itu murah2 biaya produksinya ya karena tenaga kerja jg masih murah. dan lebih efisien, masalah kualitas produk china gk kalah. tapi eropa bela2in melindungi industri dalam negeri mereka, padahal secara harga lebih murah mereka impor aja.
jd gk cuma kehendak konsumen faktornya. ada pemerintah, pemerintah berkepentingan bahan baku lokal laku, terjadi ekosistem industri.
LFP batteries have an energy density of approx 200W/Kg. Until the battery industry can get that to a minimum of 2500W/Kg or even better at 5000W/Kg, which would be parity with diesel, you are wasting everybody's time. Then you need to be able to 150KW-200KW into a car in 5 mins. Good luck with that. Until that happens, diesel rules.
I'd love to see you do a video about hybrids and the myth that hybrids are "green". The battery capacity of some hybrids is truly laughable and consumers are being fooled into thinking they are on par with BEVs.
300 miles range, are you kidding me! So… you want me to sit in a mile long line.
Lithium is a dead end. There isn't enough refined achieve any of the goals set out and if subsidies dissapear it won't matter anyway.
it would be SO great if the semi truck would have solar all over on the haul trailers as well with more batteries as well PLUS motors on the trail wheels too!! tell ELON i said so.. LOLhaha..
I’m here for the algorithm
Do I get hired to Tesla if I say every car looks like a Renault Megane!?
I think you have that backwards. Cylindrical is best for battery manufacturers and prismatic is best for auto manufacturers. Excluding Tesla this is how it is perceived.
I read prismatic was "easiest" for the battery manufacturers. Easiest might not necessary mean best. I would say cylindrical can be produced fastest, but that doesn't mean the manufacturing would be the easiest.
@Thaddeus, Agree..! BYD’s unique Blade-Battery format, is ..the most efficient, form factor for EV production as far as available space utilisation, and maximum energy density capability, per available space. Ohh, and did I happen to mention that they don’t catch fire either..? 🙄
But, they are Chinese, so we won’t mention them here..! 🙄😉
@W A cylindrical is superior, Tesla's 4680 batteries are even cheaper than BYD's Blade batteries, and they use nickel, Tesla's LFP cylindrical batteries will be better again.
Tesla Fanatics !
Glover Manor
Jaden Rue