Kawhi vs. LeBron: The different approaches of LA's superstar forwards on defense (2020)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2020
- Kawhi Leonard vs. LeBron James. Was LeBron's defense on Kawhi successful when they've played this year? How good was Kawhi in 2020? And what are their strengths and weaknesses? This detailed film breakdown & scouting answers these questions while incorporating analytics & stats to assess his overall impact.
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Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
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IMPACT METRICS
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Best basketball analysis, I wish sports channels would do more stuff like this instead of just a bunch of hot takes
Agreed
FR! It’s hard to go from watching this to watching Max and Stephen A screaming about nothing and judging players on reputation over performance. Different levels.
A Person at least we get good memes out of Stephen A Smith 😭😂
We used to have Kobe's detail show. Although not in the same style or same type of analysis as thinking basketball, I thought that had a lot of great insightful info.
@@Winterfr0st yes those are really missed rn
Wait, so we can analyze without words like "Lebum" or "Kawload Management"?
Casuals...
Yeah I'll just say LeFilmStudy and keep Kawhi Leonard as the Klaw.
instagram & mainstream youtube debate on basketball is super self-centered. the commenter feels the need to gain ‘likes’, so they try to use words like ‘lebum’, ‘kawload management’, and while it’s really spiced things up and make you feel emotional about it, it also make the discussion based around how people feel, not how it actually is.
the next thing you know, there’s a horde of dumb people commenting like they know everything and said something like ‘ben simmons is better than lebron james’, and the massive storm of poop hurricane strikes again on the comment section.
something like that.
I like Kawhi Leonard, but jokes about load management are mostly on point. I know the insinuations are that he sits out games when he's healthy, which isn't necessarily fair, but the reality is he's likely not going to be an everyday regular-season player for the rest of his career. He's only good for 75% of your regular season.
To be fair to Kawhi, it's probably less of an indictment on his commitment than it is to how unimportant the regular season is, especially this year.
@@mrmacross well what you say is right..but with what happened to the NBA because of the coronavirus Kawhi's Load Management lost its edge come postseason time because everyone was already well rested, not just him and Paul George
The fact that it is even a discussion of a 17-year veteran is on the same level as the consensus best defender of the past few seasons speaks volumes on how amazing LeBron is.
dhsilv2 well recently yes. A few years ago Kawhi is the best defender in the league.
dhsilv2 The hell do u mean? Even watching the video it’s clear Leonard is still the best wing defender and a top 5 defender in the league. He just isn’t the best anymore because he added weight which took away from his quickness, we all knew that before Bballbreakdown even had to mention it. Don’t do that.
Dennis Chen nahhh even draymond fell off defensively over the last couple seasons.
Lebron is an average at beat at this point in his career so not sure what you’re talking about lol.
Diego Velazquez people would really argue an video where an guy shows the defensive advance stats where he still top notch and still try to say an guy is average 🤣 wtf . These two guys are not joe ingles or khris middleton.
"Luka is too quick for him" is not a sentence that I ever thought would be associated with an elite defender.
He is quick lol
Pablo Salas no. Luka is a very good player and he is a lot of things but quick is not one of them
@@pablosalas1077 Luka Has excellent balance and supernatural body control but he's no D'Aaron Fox, Russell Westbrook or John wall. I legit think that Gallinari and Hayward are quicker than him.
@@pablosalas1077 qS fD
Z
I'm not saying he is Westbrook, but actually look at a Mavs game, he looks quick against defenders
LeBron is often criticized for being 'lazy' on defense but he is actually always observing his matchup and you will never catch him sleeping. Of course you sometimes see him focusing on the passing lane and leaving the backdoor open but he really is a good defender!
Facts of course
no one said LeBron was a bad defender until that clip of Kuzma getting angry at him circulated on the internet. All of a sudden, haters tried to change the narrative that LeBron was a bad defender. I think LeBron on defense has declined a bit since his Miami days of course, but when you have that mileage on you, that's understandable. Also, there are numerous stats that showed that Kobe was a bad defender during his last few All-Defensive Team selections but his teams were better defensively overall compared to LeBron's 2nd stint Cavs team and Lakers teams so it's always harder to get those All-Defensive Team selections when you're playing on an average defensive team.
@@kawaiiafangirl couldn’t have said it better myself, I almost wish that Lebron didn’t get robbed of that DPOY in 12/13, I feel that would shut down a lot of the narratives around his defense, you get Jordan and Kobe stans that seem to act like Lebron was never a good defender in the first place, like come on now. Similarly I also agree with your point about Kobes all defense selections, eye test also showed he was nowhere near as good defensively later in his career and didn’t deserve them, but his reputation almost carried him to a few more
@@kawaiiafangirl he's still a good Defender when he's fresh and tries.
The issue is he can't do that for more than half a game and if he does he doesn't have the same energy for offense.
It's understandable for his age and especially for his size. So people just need to accept that lebron still has the physical tools he Just doesn't have the gas anymore. Which is the same as saying half the time on defense he's a cone.
@@Christopher._M bro there’s literally long videos of Lebron being completely lazy and not caring for playing any type of D. And then the worst part of it is that he complains and blames it on his teammates when it’s his own damn fault. Just look at the videos, look at them!
you already know its a banger before you watch
You were right
Lebrons basketbal iq amazes me , he knows exactly what you’re gonna do before you even do it and reacts to it really well , he isn’t that in your face defender anymore but rather more of an iq defender knowing what will happen next
5:57 is a good example
It’s not really IQ. It’s a combination of watching film and playing against a lot of these guys for so many years. If you play against someone or watch them play for long enough. You can learn their tendencies pretty easily,
Watermelon Man yeah buy he still has the highest iq in the nba and maybe in history so what’s your point ?
@CLOROX BLEACH i dont think you do😂😂
What happens is that LeBron has the label of being a player who no longer defends. LeBron is leading in defensive RPM of all the forwards, he is top 10 in DWS and in DBpm of all the NBA, top 20 in deflections and in DPIPM, he is fourth of the Lakers in defensive rating (behind davis, mcgee and Howard), He is the third best Lakers player to defend the triple, averaging 1.3 steals and 0.6 blocks, and the Lakers team is third in defensive rating ... more respect for a player who was very underrated in defense this season. For me it deserves to be in the second best defensive quintet.
Yeah that guy must watch like hours of film of each and every one of his opponents like every day
It's quite incredible how we're comparing a 29 year-old prime Kawhi vs a 35 year-old aging LeBron and how they're so close to each other in their defensive side. That pretty much destroys the "LeBron has mediocre defense" narrative. Great analysis, awesome video!
Kawhi POST injury. He is not the same as he was after the spurs, but more effective on offense, thou
Thank you. Lebron is actually solid on defense but the narrative of the last few years has skewed that up for the majority of ppl
No he's not. He's far from solid. You can believe all you want. He's a good chase down block guy. The narrator only chose a handful of games.
Megaprikibalz xxx Jesus man what more do you want. Thinking Basketball has definitely watched more film than you have so why ignore his findings
@@MarkLaw13 hes been really solid this year and last year it was way overblown on him being a "bad defender" In the playoffs he steps up on defense immensely.
@@clickclackbang0362 I didn't ignore. If you want to praise or criticize anyone you have to do the work. I've watched every Lakers and Clippers games and some raptors games.
There's a reason why the Lakers are great rim protectors. That's because of Dwight, Javale, AD. Perimeter wise it was Danny and Bradley. LeBron is a good help defender but the IQ thinking basketball is trying to make is just a handful of games. In the playoffs it's more chased down blocks than actually one on one. That's why those that score actually have great numbers and none in garbage time. He didn't take KD on. This is something Kawhi will always do. Guarding the best players. Since his injury he hasn't done that but this season Doc said it's time and Clippers went 10-1 and had a couple of blowouts in there. They only lost to the Lakers because Lou, Shamet and Morris combined for a total of 8 points
@Patrick Morgan Exactly, You can say James Harden is a great Defender if you only show the games where he played defense or stole the ball.
I gotta say, Kawhi since his injury has played more safely than exploding in defense
So why do people complain that he load manages?
@@MarkLaw13 cuz they're idiots
What injury? Dude faking injuries every back to back I don't even know which one ur talking about
@@Saulgud23 It's all the same chronic injury that held him out on his last year on the Spurs
@@MarkLaw13 simple, Lbj did it and got bashed by the media, Kawhi does it all of a sudden load management is key to playoffs and should be done by every superstar
5:57 this man is built different jesus christ
I understand that their job is more about entertainment and creating daily NBA content to engage people regardless of its quality but, Jesus, mainstream media 'experts' got nothing on you man.
Keep up the great basketball content!
Thinking Basketball vs most sports talking head shows is kind of a microcosm of current media in general. People would rather watch people who don't really know what they're talking about argue than actually learn something.
People act like Lebron cant play defense but hes a solid defender. I wish he would've got a DPOY in 2013 or 09.
He was not getting it in those years
@@greatwhitesufi yea bc he got robbed
2013 was nearly his year IIRC, where he nearly got the grand slam of being the regular season MVP, winning the Finals, becoming the Finals MVP, and nearly winning DPOY (heck, some even said he was robbed that year due to bad feelings regarding his departure to Miami).
With the changes to ads no longer needing 10 minutes but 8, this man is finally gonna get the bag he deserves
The video that we all needed
Matisse Thybulle please. I have been asking for god knows how long.
He did a 5 thoughts on him, I bet a video is coming out by the end of the next season at the latest.
Yeah i would love a video on him. That's my guy!!!
He’s going to be the best wing defender in the league when he gets more minutes
Somewhat similar to spurs' kawhi in defense
Since I'm early I just want to say this is my favorite basketball content on youtube. Especially the defensive evalutations such as this that nobody else really does. The second I see an upload I stop whatever I'm doing lol. Can't wait to see what you do once the restart hits.
Same
Hands down
5:56 is why lebron would be elite in football as well. Straight up DB play on a basketball court. Wow.
"Lebron's mental computer also reads situations." Love that analysis.
Best basketball analysis channel on youtube, not even close. No clickbait or hot takes, just facts!
Thank you so much for the awesome video! I love how your recent videos all are focusing on defense, which i feel doesn’t get enough love compared to offense or points. Can’t wait for your videos during the playoffs.
I'd love a breakdown of Kobe's defense. As much as I love him, he's an overrated defender and you could possibly go into how media awards like defensive teams are mostly biased and based on reputation. Case and point is how Kobe received an All-Defensive first team selection in 2006, despite playing the worst defense of his career. The film study and impact metrics paint him as a huge minus on that end.
Wow I didn’t know that. I’d love a video about Kobe’s defense. I’ve always seen him as a good one on one defender but haven’t really observed much of his team defense and all that stuff.
I just commented this and didn't even know lol
Depends on what time period of kobe’s career we’re talking about. from 98-03 kobe was a defensive nightmare. from 03-06 kobe became a more selfish defender and did gamble for steals a lot more and wasn’t the same on help defense but still a great defensive player nonetheless. 06-10, great on-ball defender when he had to check on hard matchups, started to help a bit more on help defense. from 11-16, the defensive teams were based off reputation only i believe, had his moments of showing his past greatness and still a pretty good on-ball defender but overall just not the same effort.
The interesting thing that most people dont realize is that prior to the 13-14 season, all defensive teams were voted in by the coaches of the league, while dpoy was voted by the media. So the fact that kobe was voted into 12 all defensive teams by the coaches, not the fans, speaks volumes.
Look at his profile on Backpicks top 40
Great analysis. Blows my mind so many causals think LeBron can’t play defense because he conserves energy to rest some in years 14-19 (nearly 2nd most mins ever). He’s the only SF besides Scottie Pippen to make 5 straight first team all defense (08-12) as not even Kawhi Draymond DrJ or underrated defender Bird have done it. LeBron’s TWO 2nd place in DPOY (09 & 13 was robbed of DPOY) also show his elite defense.
In 2016 NBA finals he became only person ever to average 2.6 spg and 2.3 bpg over an entire finals!
He’s 2nd all time in playoffs defensive win shares behind only GOAT defender Russell. In regular season he’s about to pass Jason Kidd for 12th and should end his career 3-7 somewhere behind only Russell and Duncan for sure depending on how long he plays.
He lacked on defense in the regular season and didn't get voted onto enough 1st teams so people just stopped giving him flowers as a defender altogether.
@@poly_g6068 plus people just developed that idea he is a bad defender from cherry picked clips
Got giddy watching these two clued in on defense, love seeing some focus on the defensive side of the ball. Great video Ben 👍
The fact that Lebron is still considered one of, if not the, best player after 16 seasons is absurd.
The guy is unbelievable. He is *still* one of the NBA’s best athletes
AD is leading the Lakers in every statistical category but assists so Lebron isn’t the best player on his team let alone a top 5 player.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing except playmaking. The Lakers without AD make the playoffs. The Lakers without LeBron don't
Abdulsalam Hussein Lakers were the 11th seed before AD
Diego Velazquez per game averages don’t encapsulate how great a player is. Would you take Russell Westbrook over prime Jordan?
@@Thanosdidtherighthing LeBron only played 55 games, Lonzo 47 and Ingram 52. It'd be a damn miracle if they were any higher than 11th seed
This may be the only channel that makes me appreciate the brilliance of these players and the incredible complexity of their moment to moment decisions. Some plays consist of multiple counters by both teams in the span of a few seconds, and one mistake is almost always costly. You do an amazing job and I love your videos. Thank You.
Man I wish one day I will be able to notice all the little things on the court like you do. Great content.
WE were waiting for this !!!
Thank you for this video. In know it's a couple of months old, But I thoroughly enjoyed it and have to say your analysis is as great as the two players you discussed here.
Haven't even watched it yet - but I know this is gonna be gold, as always. What a topic. And I love your style. Thanks for all the great clips. Thanks, for real.
This video was so dope! First ones I’ve seen from you and you’re already one of the best content makers imo
Yoooo can you do a vid on Rodman’s defense (detroit defense) and how he was able rebound for any team he played on. These breakdowns got me hyped for the regular szn😤, keep it goin bro💪🏾💪🏾
As always another fantastic video!
Amazing analysis as always
This was awesome, thanks! I'm so excited for the real games to return in 48 hours
Thanks Ben, awesome video as always
Fantastic breakdown!!! Bravo 👏
Should definitely do a video on russ next and how his game has evolved
I'm only three minutes in, and I've watched almost all your videos, but this is really REALLY good stuff!
Easliy my favorite basketball channel. Love your content man
6:02 this is such a sick read and play by Bron
Some of the best basketball content on TH-cam. Kudos
Absolutely love this channel
bro you were so on point its crazy... yesterday's games showed the exact strengths and weaknesses you pointed out verbatim
@@Thanosdidtherighthing talking about the defense he mentioned on the video for each player
Your videos are epic man
Nice analysis yet again!
What a great channel, just subscribed to it. Keep the good work.
That pic from thumbnail where Bron and Kawhi hustling for the ball gonna be iconic in the next 20 years
great vid, amazing breakdown
best analytical basketball content on youtube and it isnt close
You are the best channel alive . Not just basketball. Everything else . You are the best .
Great video!
Impressive analysis as always.
Great breakdown!!
Amazing video!!
Fantastic video.
Good video bro 👍
Fantastic as always!! I think bron has stepped up his D this year and placing him side by side with kawhi is a great way to shed light on both of their prowess.
one of the best basketball breakdowns ive ever seen
I love the analysis on the game
6:00 That is some beautiful defensive play right there. I just loved it!!!
This video never gets old for me!!! Wish it was televisioned
Love your stuff my guy. Question, to be able to watch the extra videos, what tier of the Patreon do I need to be? I love numbers and data, so those are gold to me.
Thats such a great video as always, do you think about do the same for offense, or also a comparison of Lebron vs Giannis for the mvp race.
Not sure about kawhi losing acceleration to added weight. Seems more likely it’s his degenerative leg injury
I was thinking that too - that leg thing is a real problem.
He's not load managing just to cruise, imo
Yea
or maybe he was never that fast to begin with.
He's still fast. He's not aggressive with the defense now. You can see him just zooming past people in fastbreaks. Even in yesterday's clips vs nugs
@@xordus kawhi was noticeably faster in 2017 than he is now
You have the best job in the world. Love this shit, great job
Videos like these make you really appreciate the skills that these players have, especially lebron in this vid. The fact the he can play this well at his current age is incredible. His reaction time is just godly. I'm not even a lebron fan but i can appreciate what he brings into the game.
Good breakdown.
Best basketball analysis anywhere.
Best basketball content on youtube by miles
"A real basketball analysis? This is blasphemy!" - SAS, probably
great videos
It's interesting how there are so many great channels on TH-cam. Who would've thought you and I would have so much in common?
Underrated channel
"...Luka was too quick for him."
Luka Haters: I'm just gonna pretend I didn't hear that.
He lost so much explosiveness to that leg injury, and he might get a lot slower too.
@@ronin2981 I know Leonard is slower then he used to be I am just saying Luka isn't as slow or unathletic by comparing his speed to Kawhi's defense.
@@deathcon6261 I know, I love Luka. He along with other white players fall under the category of white men are slow and unathletic.
Also, I just learned that he is specifically training his athletism as his training in Europe apparently wasn't that good at it.
Fantastic once again. Crazy to think that this could have been a video 7 years ago and yet both are still defensive monsters even now. Lebron's IQ continues to amaze on every level of the game.
Thinking basketball with the new video, better than an off-white sneaker drop.
'Bionic Forwards' is an apt description of these two players. They're from a different planet.
Been waiting for a kawhi film breakdown
Can you do an analysis on OG Anunoby’s defence? I feel like he an underrated defender and his defence doesn’t get talked about enough
Can you please also make defense analysis vids for the young guns like Jonathan Isaac and OG Anunoby? Great vid as always!
Your b-ball analysis is first rate 👍🏼
Outstanding.
This is extremely interesting and it’s fun to see this very well done analysis as it really helps for us to understand the game even more then we already do.
It's not. He just said LeBron and Kawhi are on the same level defensively and he will only pick Kawhi because LeBron is older.
That's a Bronsexual analysis. Kawhi has always been elite. People say he's not playing defense like he used to. He actually is but he's not guarding the best player like he did. Check his defensive ratings he's actually first on the perimeter defense this season. What happened in the last 11 games of the season? Doc told him to start guarding the best player and he did and they went 10-1 with multiple blowouts.
They only lost to the Lakers because Lou, Shamet and Morris only had a combined 8 points.
Megaprikibalz xxx how is it a bronsexual analysis? He backed up all his points with evidence from film and stats. Those same metrics that rate Kawhi as the best perimeter defender have lebron as a top 5 perimeter defender this season.
@@joshcolwill6531 He chose favourable games to back up his points. He could have easily done the same for James Harden and it will be the same outcome.
There's a difference using 60 games and just 4 games or so. He didn't choose the games LeBron lost. He chose the game LeBron won against the Clippers and Milwaukee and when doing the analysis for Kawhi he chose the Clippers game Kawhi lost.
Everyone can analysis to favour their argument.
@@MarkLaw13 What happens is that LeBron has the label of being a player who no longer defends. LeBron is leading in defensive RPM of all the forwards, he is top 10 in DWS and in DBpm of all the NBA, top 20 in deflections and in DPIPM, he is fourth of the Lakers in defensive rating (behind davis, mcgee and Howard), He is the third best Lakers player to defend the triple, averaging 1.3 steals and 0.6 blocks, and the Lakers team is third in defensive rating ... more respect for a player who was very underrated in defense this season. For me it deserves to be in the second best defensive quintet.
@@MarkLaw13 He gave credit to both players by showing their best defensive clips. It just so happens that Lebron played his best defense against his wins against the Bucks and Clippers. He also gave tons of credit to Kawhi and it's just a fact that Kawhi has slightly declined in defense this year due to injury and Lebron has boosted his defense tremendously. The video still gave the defensive crown to Kawhi so idk what you're so pressed about.
Love this channel, think you do great stuff. Have to say it because my comment seems negative when it's just my honest take and I watch all your uploads almost immediately lol
But I can't help but feel like this was made only because its not the expected outcome and a "hot take" that your "not sure" if Lebron or Leonard is better defensively and you can find some numbers to back this up.
Obviously I'm aware you provided good film to back up what your saying but if we looked over more film than this we would clearly see Leonard is definitely the better defensive player. It's not just a narrative, it really is quite clear he is better on that end.
Lebron does alot of great stuff because of his intelligence, but we call alot of what he does "reading and reacting " but we apply the same to other players and we would call it "guessing". Often he pulls it off, but often he doesn't. The issue for me is, his guess work can directly lead to complete defensive breakdown and full on rotations ... Leonard is almost never primarily responsible for breakdown in this way.
No serious argument can be made that out on the perimeter Lebron can match Leonard at this stage of his career.
At the rim/in the lane its definitely debatable, Lebron is a bigger body and far more likely to turn away weaker drivers. But Leonard has those hands which constantly trouble players. When Gobert is around the rim, players have to think twice about going up... Its similar thing for Leonard in that if the ball is below shoulder level, you have to rethink if Leonard is close by. And in fact with Gobert, at least you can pump fake or pass it out, with Leonard your already deep into your drive to the rim and its too late to rethink your idea.
Lebron better post defender, hes bigger and stronger.
But honestly, it isn't really as close as its been made out. Nobody is running plays so Lebron can't interfere with them as they do with Leonard and individually, Leonard could conceivably defend anyone in the league for 48 minutes who is Giannis size and smaller. Whereas Lebron limit at this point is 5 or 6 possessions, but any longer than that and they are basically a non shooter or post up player. You know which you'd rather have and it isn't really close.
Lowkey really appreciate that you don't drag out the videos past 10 minutes just for the revenue!
Thanks for the vid. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed Kawhi's slower first step, he used to be able to guard positions 1-4 at a high level but now Point Guards are too quick for him to match up with hence why a player like Patrick Beverley is valuable for Clipper Defence given his ability to guard 1-2 and some smaller Small Forwards.
Gr8 vídeo coach.To me the best defensive perimeter player this year was Ben Simons or Matissee Thybulle
Good one, can you analyze team defense of Lakers, Clippers and Bucks. I'd also like to see one on Paul george; Giannis vs AD on defense. Thanks for this one.
I'm super pumped for the playoffs!
Without the crowd the insane atmosphere is gone, but you can catch all the communication and little things the players are doing in the court. It'll be different, but really interesting...
You should do one of these on Mattise Thybulle’s defense and how he’s so good.
thank you for being unbiased
Best basketball channel in the world.
dude you need to get hired by some big cable or something, all your stuffs are gold
Please do a video talking about Sabonis, I’d love to hear your thoughts on his game!
Can you please do a video on The Rockets defence, how they are introducing the term interceptions and predicting plays to defend rather than steals! And how harden is actually very good in this system defensively.
It's pretty cracked how such great analysis like this is stuck on TH-cam while talk shows on ESPN and Fox are dropping whole segments on players tweets or what they ate for breakfast. This guy deserves his own segment on a mainstream show IMO.
He’s lost some quickness yes, due to the extra meat he’s packed on as he’s matured, but he’s still easily the handsiest smartest defender in the league. Guy has more career steals than fouls
ngl i usually like the vid before i even watch cuz i know its gonna be quality analysis
Please do an analysis on one of the young guys from miami like tyler herro or bam adebayo or kristaps. I think they are all really interesting players.