I’m an avid WordPress user myself, however this is great convo so thank you for the video! It seems like Webflow is becoming more popular these days but I haven’t found WordPress to be limiting enough for me to consider anything else at this point.
1) You don't need to code if you use any popular theme and page builder, such as Elementor or OxyGen. 2) I've taken over WP sites that were absolutely weighed down with plugins, but was able to trim them down from ~30 plugins to 12. If you use the right theme and page builder, many of the plugins are redundant. 3) Regarding "murky waters," I generally find answers to my WordPress questions or issues relatively fast.
Sounds like a joke to me. Recently took over a portfolio of WP sites and it is a hot mess. Elementor here, Divi there, some features and even content hardcoded in template files with no documentation, some custom features utilizing plugins (ACF) with template overreach. I have seen my predecessor launching an update when he was being handed it over to, which broke the whole pieces so that he had to reload the plugin from another site to revert the changes. Am I touching the updates myself? Hell, no, whatever the security implications. Is this a user-friendly system, if they are hiring a tech-savvy webmaster (I am not a dev) to handle even publishing? Really?
Just about ready to launch a small business online and from all the things I had to do and learn and do: design the product, testing materials, contacting and coordinating with two manufactures, incoterms, taxes and e- commerce regulations, affinity photo and affinity design, creating the logo, coming up with a name, etc etc the worst was and is still Wordpress. I work with software pretty much everyday and I have never seen such a bad user interface… you start adding plugins and themes and soon enough, just to find an option, you have to do a google search. I understand how powerful it is, where it came from and how It has evolved and yes it allows someone like me, that doesn’t know how to code, to put a website online but it’s painful if not jokeable. Want to edit your footer? It’s there. Your header? Not there, but elsewhere. Plug-ins? Some have their own thing in the main bar, others you have to go to the plug-ins page…just to navigate options and find where stuff is takes a while to get used to. And then one buys a theme and thinks things will be better organized and stuff, just to find out that it’s basically impossible for a newbie to understand what the theme does and what should be edited outside the plugin, etc… but I guess I am not the smartest guy out there, I mean I still don’t understand the difference between borders, paddings and whatever the third option is …. I spent more than one day fighting my theme to connect to Instagram , just to give up and add another plugin, and talk about cleaning the caches…. I have emptied the caches of browsers in a few months more than in 20+ years of internet usage. I would still use it if I had to begin again because I don’t like the idea of being suck into a payed platform but for me its very painful….. but it’s understandable once one considers what it is. There is no Steve Jobs behind it, but thousands of developers with no capacity or power to make something a bit more coherent in terms of user interface. And it’s also painful to see almost every week an update being proposed…
Ok so you would NEVER use wordpress if 1. You are a new to creating websites 2. You can't stick to a few plugins 3. Information overload. Pretty weak arguments for never using wordpress in my opinion.
I'm sorry, but I don't follow parts of your logic. You have taken over a poorly coded WordPress project and that "taught you" that maintaining plugins is a problem? That's like me saying I took over a static website coded in 1995 and it was a terrible experience and now as a result I never want to touch HTML and CSS again. Or like I've once driven a super old car and it was a terrible experience and now I'll never drive again! This "logic" just does not hold up. If you are using WordPress the right way, this is simply not an issue. You can easily get by with less than 10 plugins, too.
I have to agree. We started with WP several years ago in 3.x times. While there have been some good changes over the years, the need for an outrageous amount of plugins, along with all of the excessive code added in for various itmes that we don't even use, WP has just become too much of a pain in the butt to use. If I need one small component, I hav to install a plugin that does four additional things I don't need, and it is just wasted code. Two years ago we started down the Webflow path. As someone with a coding background, this was a much better fit, with a better ability to customize the sites. Our clients are much happier with the outcome of their websites. I do wish we could host it on our own servers, but it is not really an issue for us. We are starting to see some things we don't like in Webflow, and now we are looking to get back to our roots and code out the website. We are also looking to use headless WordPress. This lets us code everything, but have a backend that many clints can interact with. And it GREATLY reduces the amount of code from WP. Since it serves up static web pages, it is also very fast for users.
I've landed on a beautiful mixture of Beaver Builder, Beaver Themer and ACF with WordPress. Of course some aspects can get messy, but that's going to happen with most sites if you want to start tweaking too much. I typically don't exceed 10 plugins and some of those are just backend utilities for image compression, etc. I've also been with WP since 1.0, so I'm a bit biased too. Whatever works though!
Everyone love options. And WP has unlimited. I don't want to say my customers "Sorry, i can't do that" or "Sorry, this is not possible in website". It is the customer who wins, not the platform
Alright Payton, coming to your defense *a bit* here, if you aren't a WP developer and you take over someone's poorly developed WP site, then it would seem like a nightmare. I've taken over medical WP sites with realtor plugins installed because that was just a part of the agency's stack. Pretty lazy on their part. It may be nice to have a video panel for this type of comparison though. Get a WP agency owner (I'll volunteer) and look at some of the pros/cons with a WebFlow agency owner. Don't get a WIX agency owner, WIX is just wrong. At the end of the day though, whatever works for your agency and client's will pay you for is where it's at!
I would like to use webflow but it lacks a lot of basic functional I usually need and the rest is extremely expensive upsells. Also a lot of the extensions and integrations required subscribing to a 3rd party platform and manage the functionality from their dashboard.
@@filetmignon9978 As a builder better integration of custom CSS and javascript. Be able to use calc() for different values in the builder. Multilingual or login protected content, should be in the core. It is ridiculous to pay so much for another designer account. I think I could not pull an image from CMS to a background. And since the ecommerce is not usable in Europe and it cannot do much more, pretty much everything else is missing. I always check if I could use Webflow before I turn back to WP but I rarely can.
@@jcwebtech good points, I guess its pretty niche at the moment, its definitely good for marketing and showcase type sites of which there are many, not necessarily e-commerce
I don’t care what design tools I use. For me the number 1 most important thing for my client sites is conversions . Conversion focused design wins no matter what tools you use.
@@stevevorassYeah you’re right. It’s nothing wrong with Wordpress. I’m just not a fan of the documentation. Some parts of it just are not explained very well compared to say Laravel. Most the developers I know hate Wordpress because they associate it with low pay.
@@mar-17905 Laravel looks great! I wish WP were that clean. I'm a designer turned developer so I love the WISIWYG type of builder with the ability to create custom code when it's needed. That's the only thing that's turning me away from PHP builders. I probably just need to step up my game but I'm such a visual learner and builder that it would be hard for me to go straight code-view all of the time. Ugh. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks I guess.
Just one thought: if someone doesn't know how to code, how can that person know the code outputted is any good? It seems to me that if someone is going to offer web development services, said person needs to know the bare minimum. Wix is a disaster and webflow is crazy expensive.
Are people still debating this? What he didn’t mention is the important idea that with WP you own your content whereas with companies like WIX, Webflow you’re joining and uncertain community like Twitter - buyer beware.
🙋🏻♀️Wordpress Web Designer here. In terms of the cons, some cons I agree to a certain point. But they are manageable. 1.) plug-ins: I don’t think having 25-30 plugins is reasonable anymore. And yes they do require updates. Because of that I offer a monthly maintenance plan and I’m able to get recurring revenue for it ✅ 2.) You do need to know some code even with the page builders for *advanced* customization. But, because of the big community, I found reliable developers who post blogs/ videos on how to solve it and share their code. I also think knowing some of the basics of the language is beneficial 3). Yes I’ve felt overwhelmed about the surplus of knowledge before. But I’d rather feel overwhelmed about the amount of knowledge out there than having no answers or community. I started about a year ago and when I reread some articles it makes even more sense. Plus I hear podcast like Divichat that help
When I was new, I would’ve taken this opinion and ran with it. Here’s what they don’t tell you about webflow: I’ve made about 6 websites with webflow and all of them are down. Why? Price. Clients can’t afford to pay. And if you’re not in the US there’s no easy way to get the clients to pay you and webflow get a cut
I love the idea of Webflow, but I've been spoiled by the CS of Flywheel for years now. When I asked the WF community how problems are addressed, the answer was "The community. But you won't need that because the sites don't break/don't get hacked/don't go offline." Strong communities are awesome, but that's as risky to me as the whole plugin nightmare. I'm so torn.
I have been a WordPress designer for a few years now, designing with Elementor or Divi.. But I must say I am tempted to try webflow. Totally agree with the plugins overload issue. Checked the worfpress backend of a famous website the other day and found a 102 plugins😳
WebFlow has a critical bummer feature related to commerce stores sites and it's a number of items - 3000 maximum, and its the highest Advanced tear for 212 a month. It's just nothing compare to any standard store engine. And I wish they did pay attention to this.
yeah me too, but I'm sure they'll change it in the coming year or 2, they're constantly adding new stuff, so it's probably just not at the top of their list rn
bruh... WebFlow? The amount of time you need to learn the webflow platform could have been used to just learn HTML and CSS, then you would come out with an actual skill, not dependent on a 3rd party app.
Knowing html, css and js will not make you a good wordpress dev, I started web dev using php, then react, then nextjs. WordPress is very frustrating things always break.
First problem that you are mentioning is like saying you cant fully use your car if you dont read and understand the car manual. 99% of the time you dont need to know to code. Wordpress has also drag and drop, no problem with that. Next downside with plugins, you can get all you need with 10 most popular plugins (or les), you are either lying or dont have any experience. Next point, there is no such thing as information overload, when you need tutorial on almost anything regarding wordpress you can rely on youtube easily. Final answer to your final question is YES you should use wordpress if you want to skip headaches and if you want the proven to be the best platform.
My guess would be he inherited an over-themed, over-pluggined site and didn't try any modern builders. I've looked at some WP sites I've taken over and said, "Nope, we're starting from scratch.".
Please notify me when I will be able to host my beautiful Webflow-built website on my own server. Your remarks about Wordpress are incorrect. You also have no business managing someone else's WordPress website if you don't know what you're doing. Yes, some plugins may be abandoned, just like any other programming code on any other platform. That is why, for long-term support, you should always go with a well-known plugin developer.
The "platform" I use is VS Code, and the reasons why I don't use WordPress are completely different lol (except for the plugin thing, I always avoid using third party code)
If plugins are a problem, don't use them, very simple. You can code what you need in the theme o use custom post types. The only plugin that is a must is ACF, the rest you can add to your code... Oh, wait, you can't code, but you are trashing a tool that sort of requires some knowledge of coding to get the best out of it. I am so sorry, but if you are a web-designer and you want to develop your clients websites, YOU MUST at least learn the basics. If you can't code, hire a developer to develop a basic theme, so that you can change the rest. But it is ridiculous that you are trashing a tool because YOU don't know how to use it. I am a web-designer and I walked the extra mile to learn what was needed to get the best out of wordpress. it is not that hard....
Hey I am kind of late to this reply.. but stuff like simply getting a post carousel requires a plugin. Or one of a few themes, and the integration is a hassle even for the plugin, that doesnt know how to show low res thumbnails instead of full res image in the darn carousel. Would you code that yourself? Most coders would have no idea how to work in Wordpress. It requires a very special understanding of how it all works under the hood + coding skills.
You don't need to know how to code to work with wordpress. Gutenberg is amazing a bit hard to grasp at first but no code and ultra fast... Then you have Oxygen, Elementor and others where you can have Webflow capabilities for a fraction of the costs... And those are not going to get discontinue... Wordpress problems lay of security if you are a novice... And the fact that database and front end are connected... DDos can be fatal... But you can do a headless wordpress in minutes... But for 95% of startups and business Wordpress is the right solution... It is free, easy, fast a million people know how to do a decent development and ready specially ultra SEO friendly
1 ) disagree .. You can use Elementor,Divi,Bricks etc... what are running with wordpress 2 ) True : Plugin overload is a problem... but if you buy plugins and the right ones they dont slow down your sites and work with other plugins.. ( dont use only free plugins ) 3 ) Information overload ? Since then is to much information bad about something :) ?
Actually wordpress is child's play, you want something elaborate that can build anything, try Drupal ;) But wordpress has come a long way for sure, and they are approaching Drupal functionality with ACF, custom post types etc...another no headache option would be bootstrap static sites, but then again...you need to really know your code for that. So, yes, for a small business, I'd say WIX is a good choice or any of those platforms, I don't like it...but that's just the way it is!
You omitted one important point: what a black box it is. Of course, you can have a nice and relatively clean WP site, even one not looking like any other. But that does not come cheap. In reality, do the kiddie "devs" know what the plugins actually do? Do the marketing managers / owners really know what to demand of them? I really doubt that. A plugin gets installed, which seems to fulfill specific need. ...and then boom, a vulnerability found in a (an abandoned, perhaps) plugin? Anyone patching it for my site without losing the desired functionality? Yes, yet another consequence of WP`s being the most widely used CMS.
C'mon you're exagerating. There are new builders like Bricks, Cwicly, Oxygen, Breakdance and super intuitive CSS libraries for it like Automatic CSS that allow you to make custom sites with ease. And al of these builders have in common that they are very similiar to Webflow. Bricks is my favourite and Breakdance is great for beginners as well. Especially Automatic CSS allows you to build WP sites almost like you have Figma. You're stll probably stuck in Elementor or Divi or something...
0:50 WP has nothing to do with web design, not sure where you got this from. Really jarring statement to being with also, no one is the leader in this, also confusing for new folks. What has design got to do with CMS? Auttomatic make some of the fuglyiest things out there when it comes to websites, Matt's own site is always the worst use of the CMS.
In order to use WP properly you need to know how to do what it does. Therefore any of the issues boil down to the devs getting good at raw code. The tradeoff of convenience is bloat and slop.
Hey bro, I appreciate your efforts but I do not agree with this one. You don't need to know coding to use WordPress when you have elementor page builder, WordPress is intuitive and doesn't require so much learning like webflow You can design any website on Wordpress using only free tools but webflow is fucking damn expensive for no good reason
Honestly wordpress is a mess with plugins, Persoanally i use elementor, then you need something for SEo and "optimizing" load security and on the end comes out a mess like Payton said. BUT if you completely "noob" get a cheap hosting and play around with "no code" elementor, or well you can just go to Webflow and thats it :D , personally im slowly but surelly moving my websites to webflow
If you use wordpress Business yearly plan. That's gonna cost you about thirteen hundred bucks. Most rookie website rookie web developers who's just getting started. Don't have that kind of cash flow.
None of this is helpful, because, I want to make a website, similar in function to Facebook, etc., where a user can sign up, have a private account page to alter settings, and those settings affect other parts of pages of the site including a/button targets/hrefs. No website build lets you make a standard, account membership, web app like that. I looked at the gross Wix dynamic pages, and what they offer is horrible, including the pseudo database which you can only add to as a Wix user, not a user to my site (I mean like changing the url of a user-custom button and storing it in a database as it should be).
No, these builders dont write perfect code. Thats extremely misleading. Wordpress has a ton of optimization issues because of this. And the heavy dependency on plugins can get really expensive.
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m an avid WordPress user myself, however this is great convo so thank you for the video! It seems like Webflow is becoming more popular these days but I haven’t found WordPress to be limiting enough for me to consider anything else at this point.
1) You don't need to code if you use any popular theme and page builder, such as Elementor or OxyGen.
2) I've taken over WP sites that were absolutely weighed down with plugins, but was able to trim them down from ~30 plugins to 12. If you use the right theme and page builder, many of the plugins are redundant.
3) Regarding "murky waters," I generally find answers to my WordPress questions or issues relatively fast.
Sounds like a joke to me. Recently took over a portfolio of WP sites and it is a hot mess. Elementor here, Divi there, some features and even content hardcoded in template files with no documentation, some custom features utilizing plugins (ACF) with template overreach. I have seen my predecessor launching an update when he was being handed it over to, which broke the whole pieces so that he had to reload the plugin from another site to revert the changes. Am I touching the updates myself? Hell, no, whatever the security implications.
Is this a user-friendly system, if they are hiring a tech-savvy webmaster (I am not a dev) to handle even publishing? Really?
Hit like if you also think this was a WebFlow sponsored video 😂😂
Just about ready to launch a small business online and from all the things I had to do and learn and do: design the product, testing materials, contacting and coordinating with two manufactures, incoterms, taxes and e- commerce regulations, affinity photo and affinity design, creating the logo, coming up with a name, etc etc the worst was and is still Wordpress. I work with software pretty much everyday and I have never seen such a bad user interface… you start adding plugins and themes and soon enough, just to find an option, you have to do a google search. I understand how powerful it is, where it came from and how It has evolved and yes it allows someone like me, that doesn’t know how to code, to put a website online but it’s painful if not jokeable. Want to edit your footer? It’s there. Your header? Not there, but elsewhere. Plug-ins? Some have their own thing in the main bar, others you have to go to the plug-ins page…just to navigate options and find where stuff is takes a while to get used to. And then one buys a theme and thinks things will be better organized and stuff, just to find out that it’s basically impossible for a newbie to understand what the theme does and what should be edited outside the plugin, etc… but I guess I am not the smartest guy out there, I mean I still don’t understand the difference between borders, paddings and whatever the third option is …. I spent more than one day fighting my theme to connect to Instagram , just to give up and add another plugin, and talk about cleaning the caches…. I have emptied the caches of browsers in a few months more than in 20+ years of internet usage. I would still use it if I had to begin again because I don’t like the idea of being suck into a payed platform but for me its very painful….. but it’s understandable once one considers what it is. There is no Steve Jobs behind it, but thousands of developers with no capacity or power to make something a bit more coherent in terms of user interface. And it’s also painful to see almost every week an update being proposed…
Ok so you would NEVER use wordpress if 1. You are a new to creating websites 2. You can't stick to a few plugins 3. Information overload. Pretty weak arguments for never using wordpress in my opinion.
I'm sorry, but I don't follow parts of your logic. You have taken over a poorly coded WordPress project and that "taught you" that maintaining plugins is a problem?
That's like me saying I took over a static website coded in 1995 and it was a terrible experience and now as a result I never want to touch HTML and CSS again.
Or like I've once driven a super old car and it was a terrible experience and now I'll never drive again!
This "logic" just does not hold up. If you are using WordPress the right way, this is simply not an issue. You can easily get by with less than 10 plugins, too.
I have to agree. We started with WP several years ago in 3.x times. While there have been some good changes over the years, the need for an outrageous amount of plugins, along with all of the excessive code added in for various itmes that we don't even use, WP has just become too much of a pain in the butt to use. If I need one small component, I hav to install a plugin that does four additional things I don't need, and it is just wasted code.
Two years ago we started down the Webflow path. As someone with a coding background, this was a much better fit, with a better ability to customize the sites. Our clients are much happier with the outcome of their websites. I do wish we could host it on our own servers, but it is not really an issue for us.
We are starting to see some things we don't like in Webflow, and now we are looking to get back to our roots and code out the website. We are also looking to use headless WordPress. This lets us code everything, but have a backend that many clints can interact with. And it GREATLY reduces the amount of code from WP. Since it serves up static web pages, it is also very fast for users.
I've landed on a beautiful mixture of Beaver Builder, Beaver Themer and ACF with WordPress. Of course some aspects can get messy, but that's going to happen with most sites if you want to start tweaking too much. I typically don't exceed 10 plugins and some of those are just backend utilities for image compression, etc. I've also been with WP since 1.0, so I'm a bit biased too.
Whatever works though!
What do you use for hosting?
@@tusharmanan1880 We have our own server that we lease. We just host everything on that so we have more control over it.
Everyone love options. And WP has unlimited. I don't want to say my customers "Sorry, i can't do that" or "Sorry, this is not possible in website". It is the customer who wins, not the platform
Alright Payton, coming to your defense *a bit* here, if you aren't a WP developer and you take over someone's poorly developed WP site, then it would seem like a nightmare. I've taken over medical WP sites with realtor plugins installed because that was just a part of the agency's stack. Pretty lazy on their part. It may be nice to have a video panel for this type of comparison though. Get a WP agency owner (I'll volunteer) and look at some of the pros/cons with a WebFlow agency owner.
Don't get a WIX agency owner, WIX is just wrong.
At the end of the day though, whatever works for your agency and client's will pay you for is where it's at!
I would like to use webflow but it lacks a lot of basic functional I usually need and the rest is extremely expensive upsells. Also a lot of the extensions and integrations required subscribing to a 3rd party platform and manage the functionality from their dashboard.
what basic functionalities is it lacking that you need?
@@filetmignon9978 As a builder better integration of custom CSS and javascript. Be able to use calc() for different values in the builder. Multilingual or login protected content, should be in the core. It is ridiculous to pay so much for another designer account. I think I could not pull an image from CMS to a background. And since the ecommerce is not usable in Europe and it cannot do much more, pretty much everything else is missing. I always check if I could use Webflow before I turn back to WP but I rarely can.
@@jcwebtech good points, I guess its pretty niche at the moment, its definitely good for marketing and showcase type sites of which there are many, not necessarily e-commerce
I don’t care what design tools I use. For me the number 1 most important thing for my client sites is conversions . Conversion focused design wins no matter what tools you use.
Could you elaborate a bit more? Thanks
I’m a developer and I prefer the JavaScript ecosystem. I’m building my business website with NextJS and a headless CMS.
I was going to say, most developers hate Wordpress and use custom decoupled CMS like butter cms, contentful, dotcms, or whatever is popular next week.
@@stevevorassYeah you’re right. It’s nothing wrong with Wordpress. I’m just not a fan of the documentation. Some parts of it just are not explained very well compared to say Laravel. Most the developers I know hate Wordpress because they associate it with low pay.
@@mar-17905 Laravel looks great! I wish WP were that clean. I'm a designer turned developer so I love the WISIWYG type of builder with the ability to create custom code when it's needed. That's the only thing that's turning me away from PHP builders. I probably just need to step up my game but I'm such a visual learner and builder that it would be hard for me to go straight code-view all of the time. Ugh. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks I guess.
Just one thought: if someone doesn't know how to code, how can that person know the code outputted is any good?
It seems to me that if someone is going to offer web development services, said person needs to know the bare minimum.
Wix is a disaster and webflow is crazy expensive.
I agree with you. Payton is making foolish statements, in my opinion. It's like an automotive mechanic not knowing how an engine works. 🙄🤦🏻♂️
Are people still debating this? What he didn’t mention is the important idea that with WP you own your content whereas with companies like WIX, Webflow you’re joining and uncertain community like Twitter - buyer beware.
🙋🏻♀️Wordpress Web Designer here. In terms of the cons, some cons I agree to a certain point. But they are manageable.
1.) plug-ins: I don’t think having 25-30 plugins is reasonable anymore. And yes they do require updates. Because of that I offer a monthly maintenance plan and I’m able to get recurring revenue for it ✅
2.) You do need to know some code even with the page builders for *advanced* customization. But, because of the big community, I found reliable developers who post blogs/ videos on how to solve it and share their code. I also think knowing some of the basics of the language is beneficial
3). Yes I’ve felt overwhelmed about the surplus of knowledge before. But I’d rather feel overwhelmed about the amount of knowledge out there than having no answers or community. I started about a year ago and when I reread some articles it makes even more sense. Plus I hear podcast like Divichat that help
When I was new, I would’ve taken this opinion and ran with it. Here’s what they don’t tell you about webflow:
I’ve made about 6 websites with webflow and all of them are down. Why? Price. Clients can’t afford to pay. And if you’re not in the US there’s no easy way to get the clients to pay you and webflow get a cut
I love the idea of Webflow, but I've been spoiled by the CS of Flywheel for years now. When I asked the WF community how problems are addressed, the answer was "The community. But you won't need that because the sites don't break/don't get hacked/don't go offline." Strong communities are awesome, but that's as risky to me as the whole plugin nightmare. I'm so torn.
What does CS stand for?
@@woutertt customer service
So many ways of using WordPress. No need to hate on it.
There's plenty of reason to hate on WordPress. It absolutely sucks to use compared to webflow
HTML + CSS + Js
I have been a WordPress designer for a few years now, designing with Elementor or Divi.. But I must say I am tempted to try webflow. Totally agree with the plugins overload issue. Checked the worfpress backend of a famous website the other day and found a 102 plugins😳
WebFlow has a critical bummer feature related to commerce stores sites and it's a number of items - 3000 maximum, and its the highest Advanced tear for 212 a month. It's just nothing compare to any standard store engine. And I wish they did pay attention to this.
yeah me too, but I'm sure they'll change it in the coming year or 2, they're constantly adding new stuff, so it's probably just not at the top of their list rn
WebFlow has a learning curve, even for me, and I've been doing this for more than 10 years. 😉
Wordpress is the least user friendly platform I’ve ever used. For my new website I’m going elsewhere
After evaluating several platforms I chose the Duda platform, agency level.
bruh... WebFlow? The amount of time you need to learn the webflow platform could have been used to just learn HTML and CSS, then you would come out with an actual skill, not dependent on a 3rd party app.
What about GDPR? is it safe to use Webflow in Europe?
Very fair perspective, thank you
I've been using MODX for years. You do need to know coding to create the templates. I like power of the templates variables, chunks, and snippets.
Knowing html, css and js will not make you a good wordpress dev, I started web dev using php, then react, then nextjs. WordPress is very frustrating things always break.
First problem that you are mentioning is like saying you cant fully use your car if you dont read and understand the car manual. 99% of the time you dont need to know to code.
Wordpress has also drag and drop, no problem with that.
Next downside with plugins, you can get all you need with 10 most popular plugins (or les), you are either lying or dont have any experience.
Next point, there is no such thing as information overload, when you need tutorial on almost anything regarding wordpress you can rely on youtube easily.
Final answer to your final question is YES you should use wordpress if you want to skip headaches and if you want the proven to be the best platform.
My guess would be he inherited an over-themed, over-pluggined site and didn't try any modern builders. I've looked at some WP sites I've taken over and said, "Nope, we're starting from scratch.".
@@smple Yep, could be
I totally agree.
Please notify me when I will be able to host my beautiful Webflow-built website on my own server. Your remarks about Wordpress are incorrect. You also have no business managing someone else's WordPress website if you don't know what you're doing. Yes, some plugins may be abandoned, just like any other programming code on any other platform. That is why, for long-term support, you should always go with a well-known plugin developer.
Webflow ❤ anytime any day!
Vscode and code everything, then i have 100% control over everything for real.
The "platform" I use is VS Code, and the reasons why I don't use WordPress are completely different lol (except for the plugin thing, I always avoid using third party code)
i use wordpress be because i can code i would think about us webflow if you can code on it and have control of the web hosting on my server.
But what if you're not a seasoned WordPress user??
still using wordpress because the projects are so incredible big that it needs a lot of customization.
Man, Payton. You look great with the beard!
Great vid Pait!
If plugins are a problem, don't use them, very simple. You can code what you need in the theme o use custom post types. The only plugin that is a must is ACF, the rest you can add to your code... Oh, wait, you can't code, but you are trashing a tool that sort of requires some knowledge of coding to get the best out of it. I am so sorry, but if you are a web-designer and you want to develop your clients websites, YOU MUST at least learn the basics. If you can't code, hire a developer to develop a basic theme, so that you can change the rest. But it is ridiculous that you are trashing a tool because YOU don't know how to use it. I am a web-designer and I walked the extra mile to learn what was needed to get the best out of wordpress. it is not that hard....
Hey I am kind of late to this reply.. but stuff like simply getting a post carousel requires a plugin. Or one of a few themes, and the integration is a hassle even for the plugin, that doesnt know how to show low res thumbnails instead of full res image in the darn carousel.
Would you code that yourself? Most coders would have no idea how to work in Wordpress. It requires a very special understanding of how it all works under the hood + coding skills.
You don't need to know how to code to work with wordpress. Gutenberg is amazing a bit hard to grasp at first but no code and ultra fast... Then you have Oxygen, Elementor and others where you can have Webflow capabilities for a fraction of the costs... And those are not going to get discontinue... Wordpress problems lay of security if you are a novice... And the fact that database and front end are connected... DDos can be fatal... But you can do a headless wordpress in minutes... But for 95% of startups and business Wordpress is the right solution... It is free, easy, fast a million people know how to do a decent development and ready specially ultra SEO friendly
I like that I can zip up WordPress and put it on any host.
Webflow all the way. More fun designing experience :D
Awesome video!!!
1 ) disagree .. You can use Elementor,Divi,Bricks etc... what are running with wordpress
2 ) True : Plugin overload is a problem... but if you buy plugins and the right ones they dont slow down your sites and work with other plugins.. ( dont use only free plugins )
3 ) Information overload ? Since then is to much information bad about something :) ?
I am full time WordPress developer. My main job is to create custom dynamic website with elementor
I agree.
Actually wordpress is child's play, you want something elaborate that can build anything, try Drupal ;) But wordpress has come a long way for sure, and they are approaching Drupal functionality with ACF, custom post types etc...another no headache option would be bootstrap static sites, but then again...you need to really know your code for that. So, yes, for a small business, I'd say WIX is a good choice or any of those platforms, I don't like it...but that's just the way it is!
You omitted one important point: what a black box it is. Of course, you can have a nice and relatively clean WP site, even one not looking like any other. But that does not come cheap. In reality, do the kiddie "devs" know what the plugins actually do? Do the marketing managers / owners really know what to demand of them? I really doubt that. A plugin gets installed, which seems to fulfill specific need.
...and then boom, a vulnerability found in a (an abandoned, perhaps) plugin? Anyone patching it for my site without losing the desired functionality? Yes, yet another consequence of WP`s being the most widely used CMS.
C'mon you're exagerating. There are new builders like Bricks, Cwicly, Oxygen, Breakdance and super intuitive CSS libraries for it like Automatic CSS that allow you to make custom sites with ease. And al of these builders have in common that they are very similiar to Webflow.
Bricks is my favourite and Breakdance is great for beginners as well. Especially Automatic CSS allows you to build WP sites almost like you have Figma.
You're stll probably stuck in Elementor or Divi or something...
0:50 WP has nothing to do with web design, not sure where you got this from. Really jarring statement to being with also, no one is the leader in this, also confusing for new folks. What has design got to do with CMS? Auttomatic make some of the fuglyiest things out there when it comes to websites, Matt's own site is always the worst use of the CMS.
WordPress ( Oxygen + Snippets + ACF ) 🔥🔥🔥 & Bubble
In order to use WP properly you need to know how to do what it does. Therefore any of the issues boil down to the devs getting good at raw code. The tradeoff of convenience is bloat and slop.
Is Webflow afraid of Oxygen and paying this dudes to make Videos against WordPress?
Hey bro, I appreciate your efforts but I do not agree with this one.
You don't need to know coding to use WordPress when you have elementor page builder, WordPress is intuitive and doesn't require so much learning like webflow
You can design any website on Wordpress using only free tools but webflow is fucking damn expensive for no good reason
Honestly wordpress is a mess with plugins, Persoanally i use elementor, then you need something for SEo and "optimizing" load security and on the end comes out a mess like Payton said. BUT if you completely "noob" get a cheap hosting and play around with "no code" elementor, or well you can just go to Webflow and thats it :D , personally im slowly but surelly moving my websites to webflow
If you use wordpress Business yearly plan. That's gonna cost you about thirteen hundred bucks. Most rookie website rookie web developers who's just getting started. Don't have that kind of cash flow.
Huh? Wordpress is free
Your honest opinion about WordPress *
I love Joomla! 😀
Finding the right plugin is such a hassle
None of this is helpful, because, I want to make a website, similar in function to Facebook, etc., where a user can sign up, have a private account page to alter settings, and those settings affect other parts of pages of the site including a/button targets/hrefs. No website build lets you make a standard, account membership, web app like that. I looked at the gross Wix dynamic pages, and what they offer is horrible, including the pseudo database which you can only add to as a Wix user, not a user to my site (I mean like changing the url of a user-custom button and storing it in a database as it should be).
Squarespace user here.
Same with me 😁
No, these builders dont write perfect code. Thats extremely misleading. Wordpress has a ton of optimization issues because of this. And the heavy dependency on plugins can get really expensive.
wordpress woocomerce for now but I also hate it
Totally disagree. I won't use anything but wordpress and no I do not know how to code.
Code has been around longer.
I am using code.
If are you using more than 20 plugins you are doing something wrong
Even 10 plug-ins (depending on the project) is wrong
How about Duda?
The choppy video edit is obvious and irritating. 🙄 You could have rerecorded with a teleprompter app.