The semi-popular Fan Theory for the Star Trek Universe uniform changes I've always liked is they change them so that accidental Time Travellers know the time period without asking anyone.
The "unreliable narrator" take on Lower Decks is exactly how I see it. The events are canonical but sensationalized for the medium. You can also look at LD as in-universe events as retold by a Federation citizen making a show for entertainment or someone who downed loads of Orion booze.
imagine need weapons grade copium to fit a rick and morty show into star trek. attempting to have it be told by a unreliable narrator is just the icing on the cake and further proofs that it is not well written. But I admire those who enjoy it, I simply cant see the appeal
@jobt1999 and yet you had no problem with vast amounts of canonicity problems being introduced when the final episode of Enterprise was a TNG holodeck game which we already know are usually different from historical events because the computer just fills things in
@@jobt1999it’s hardly like Rick and Morty. I feel like people just say that because he worked on the show for a season. And his episodes were kind of the least “Rick and Morty” style (playing with the formula) anyway. Just take Lower Decks on its own terms
Also the tie-ins to ST:ENT in the SNW episode were well done. Showing that the SNW crew looks up to Archer's crew like Boimler looks up to them, and then the reveal about the NX-01 connection to the NCC-1701.
Ya know, I just developed an interesting headcanon: Starfleet *does* have their standard uniforms...but, they let captains have some leeway in the uniforms used for the crew of their ship. I could see that being a thing, since it'd make a captain feel like their ship is really *their* ship, it'd help foster crew unity since they're in *exclusive* uniforms, and also it genuinely just sounds like the kind of thing Starfleet would do, honestly, lol.
it could be by ship... I kind of believe in many ways, a ship is a state onto itself under the full governance of it's captain... at least each capital ship not part of an actively joint fleet or not attached to another ship or station. also could be by which force you are part of within the hierarchy... sort of like the "Commandos", "Marines", "Rangers", etc. in the modern armed forces. I mean, Starfleet consists of probably hundreds of different "missions" basically autonomous of each other with their own chains of command makes sense if each has their own style of uniforms too...
It really annoys me how much Generations and VOY that fucked up the uniforms. When DS9 started the uniforms were clearly supposed to be a different class of uniform and not a replacement. I think it makes sense that Second Contact ships has the LD style uniforms as they’re the ones that will spend the most time with new species and having a friendlier more disarming appearance. I really like the idea that Starfleet has different classes of uniforms for different functions
I think you're absolutely right. Lower Decks is the best current Star Trek, because it is somehow more consistent with other Star Trek, than the other series. Strange New Worlds has also been a hit, because it also tends to respect canon, though I have some nitpicks about Spock.
@@rootbear75 Other sci-fi cartoons I could think of have VA's who look remarkably like their characters, yet they recast them when adapting for live-action. Keeping the VA to play the character in live-action goes a long way towards making them feel like the same character across different mediums.
Some of the characters were redesigned after the actors were cast so that they could potentially play them in live action. The biggest change is Mariner. The rolled up sleeves are about the only thing that remains from the concept art.
Like Ben and Adam say on The Greatest Generation, Star Trek is at its best when "star trek is a place", and nothing made me happier as a kid during the late TNG era than seeing all the little details and cameos crossing over.
I too am _considering_ watching LD due to the cross-over ep. Having said that, the two cartoon characters made flesh seemed like youths from _our_ present in contrast to the more mature and setting-appropriate characters around them, which jarred for me. On the other hand, that animated opening sequence was possibly better than the standard one, and certainly far more crisp.
@@originaluddite to be fair, they’re both ensigns which in ST are typically youths or really bad at their jobs old men, so I didn’t expect them to be mature and seasoned officers but I do get your meaning.
You missed mentioning quite a few crossovers. Just to mention a few: TOS-TNG crossovers - The pilot of ST:TNG had a handoff-type crossover with Dr. McCoy appearing on the Enterprise-D, Spock's father Sarek appearing in TNG's season 3 episode "Sarek" and season 5's two-part "Unification" episodes also featuring Spock himself, Scotty appearing in the Season 6 episode Relics. DS9 had additional TNG crossovers with Data and Q each making appearances, and Worf transitioning in as a later regular cast. VOY had several Q apperances, one of which dragged in Riker from TNG. It also had a TOS movie series crossover with Tuvok's flashback to serving on Sulu's Excelsior. Enterprise's Mirror Universe crossover also touched base with TOS, essentially being the transdimensional beaching of the TOS-lost U.S.S. Defiant, and of course its much-derided series finale framed as being relived by TNG-Riker on the holodeck.
@@ElOchentero The U.S.S. Defiant was pulled into the mirror universe, but was from the prime TOS universe in the 3rd season episode The Tholian Web. Whether or not its crosssover I guess depends on whether a specific starship is an element that, when crossing over from one series into a separate series qualifies as a crossover.
A few of the lower decks ships showed up in the first and last episode of Picard season 2 when the borg were on the show and you can see a few of them in and around space dock in season 3 as well as the battle
I think the writers/producers of Picard were very clear on that they wanted to stay away as much as possible from the rest of the franchise at least for the first two seasons, and indeed succeeded because those two seasons feel like a whole different show from another franchise, even including thing that has never been mentioned in any other show (like the use of "synthethics" like androids workers when it was previously established that they use holograms or that the entire galaxy had a treaty forbidin the development of cybernetic brains). Also I think it was kind of implied that for season 3 they wanted to reset things and pretend seasons 1 and 2 didn't happen, some characters just disapear and are not mention again like Riker's daughter and Picard Romulan love interest
Rulers daughter is mentioned but she isn't important to the story, but yeah over all I think s3 would be a great launch point for that obviously planted seven of nine Jack Picard raffi show they had planned and I think it could be the trek so many plans have been looking for
What exactly does this ban on AI even entail? I haven't watched Picard so I don't know. Did Starfleet one day just decide that AI are too unreliable and initiated a 40K style purge? Did Starfleet go out and arrest them all just for existing? Do I have to look forward to seeing Peanut Hamper and her entire family of Exocomps getting taken in by Starfleet for the crime of being AI?
@@anthonyrodriguez8788 well thankfully not or was not shown on camera. For what I grasp the prohibition is in creating any new AI. Also is not clear if refers to all AIs or just positronic brains/Zoong-type androids which I hope so cause otherwise what happened to the Exocombs who are already Federation citizens? Can't they reproduce anymore? In any case the ban is apparently lifted at the end of the season so it was pretty much worhless.
While I agree that the constant changes to uniforms in newer series don't exactly help them feel connected, it has precedent in both the setting itself as well as real life. The TNG era alone saw _at least_ 3 major overhauls, from the early "frilly" TNG style over the classic look, the inverted later style and eventually the Dominion War uniform. TOS had at least two I remember, from the original one over the fleet-wide red to the white/grey sets. And don't even get me started on "dress uniforms", which seem to simply follow the respective year's fashion trends, or be whatever the respective officers currently had on hand. IRL there have also been instances where there's only a couple of years between uniform changes/overhauls. The disaster of the "UCP" camo pattern comes to mind where the US military wasted billions researching a new camo pattern that ended up only blending in with that one famous picture of a couch and nothing else - and ended up thrown out as soon as the ones responsible no longer held enough sway to sweet-talk it... I can see similar things at play in Starfleet: Overly ambitious lesser admirals suffering from self-importance (as they canonically tend to do) and wanting to make _some_ lasting impact on the fleet. So some who can't make their name as a specialist in some operational/tactical field may opt to devote their time to minor things, like promoting their new favorite uniform design to be accepted. You can even end up with partial adoption of multiple styles, like the original split of "ship" and "station" uniforms between TNG and DS9 - where either one of them ends up winning out, or several waves that never end up unified will propagate across the entire fleet. Let's say Alpha Quadrant sections adopt double shoulder stripes for active vessels while Beta Quadrant switches to a lab coat style for any ship/installation that is mainly dedicated to research...
Thank You and it seemed the US had uniform issues for last 20 years but thankfully we finally found ones we acatully like. Also just take the US in WW2 for exemple where the US alone had around a doezen different uniforms though out it's milltary so why can't the lower decks uniform be just a regional or ship type thing?
I just like Prodigy though. In a lot of ways, as much as it can break canon, it's got the heart of Star Trek that just seems to be missing from Disco and the first seasons of Picard.
Prodigy isn’t ending, they’re finishing up season two and they’re looking for a new place to air it. While Paramount CEOs are doing whatever the hell they’re doing and removing it, the Star Trek creative team/administration has total faith in that show. It will be coming back somehow.
100% agree about the uniforms. I know that each series “has to” be distinct, but let’s have some connection. Love the Strange New World uniforms as modern take on TOS though
It makes sense for Picard and Discovery seasons 3 and 4, but the Picard flashbacks, Prodigy uniforms, Lower Decks uniforms and latter day DS9/TNG movies grey shoulder padded uniforms also still being used makes 2380 - 2386 feel a little like Starfleet's having an identity crisis.
When it comes to the different uniforms, I view them as uniforms for different departments, like crew from lower decccks has a uniform for the roles they do, the dominion war uniforms are for more battle ready ships and picard uniforms might be more for earth based and diplomatic missions, like evacuating the romulans. Not the best explain but it makes some sense, similar to when there were two different uniforms during the TNG era.
This sounds possible. Remember that the Motion Picture is Canon to the universe, meaning that outfit overhauls for ships aren't a foreign concept (even if their use was only for a short while).
Season 3 of Picard was a lot of fan-service sure, but the season served as a last send-off and goodbye to not only Captain Picard, but the whole TNG era as a whole as well.
I have to say I like the idea of the original Discovery uniforms as a sort of evolution of the Archer era uniforms. But then it could also have been an opportunity for setting Discovery shortly after 2161, perhaps in the early 2200s or so, more detached from TOS and at the same time a spiritual successor to Star Trek Enterprise and the chance to fill the lore that Enterprise never could due to being cancelled.
After TNG, it appears the Federation has adopted specialty uniforms, the White Border Fold overs from LD seem to be the design set for the California and its class of ship. The Transition from the TNG fold over to the Grey Collar was I believe to distinguish Station personnel from Ship Personnel but i we see Sisko wears the TNG style in the Paradise Lost plot line while acting as Head of Starfleet Security on Earth. I was hoping in Voyager after they made contact with the Federation that Starfleet would send in one of the data bursts, the specs for the FC uniform and we'd see the crew begin to transition to the New Uniform with the Senior Staff wearing them first and as the series progressed Junior Officers and Crewmen begin wearing them, however given Voyager is supposed to be having power issues, this could be the reason they stayed with the DS9 uniforms in series.
Ever since ds9 I've always assumed that most ships or different stations had unique uniforms and the costume department didn't want to have to design new ones for every ship/station they visited. That was also a thing in this if I'm remembering right
She would be ~170 years old. Life expectancy of a Vulcan is 200 years. 30 years isn't a whole lot to a Vulcan, so chances are she retired and is doing something in the Vulcan science academy, or meditating, or artistry, or something else.
ye, we had Spock and Savic in TNG so why still give in to the Gatekeepers that try to tell us that everything New is bad and try to exclude everything ENT
I think there's a very fine line to be walked here, and by looking back at 90's Trek, we can see a way forward for 20's Trek. Yes, I think having a more cohesive universe would be beneficial, but only to a point. I think Marvel and Star Wars currently have a problem in that they expect everybody to have watched every single show and movie (even if they're not good) in order to know what's happening in other movies/shows. They've been drifting from that a bit, but it still means you get something like Mandalorian S3E01 where it's just a recap of the end of Book of Boba Fett. If Star Trek can create a universe where it's not necessary to catch every single show, but still have connectedness for those who do, then I think they'll be good moving forward.
I disagree, they need a good show to start a series to series transfer and they definitely should be connected other than a crossover or passing mention of something, that's how old trek worked. You could watch any of them and not feel like your missing much because they were their own shows and that's how it should've been but every show they've made since minus lower decks and Picard s3 and lower decks isn't fit for a spin off trek series so I'd say the ending of Picard s3 is the best way to move forward in this manner
@@Jiub_SN"Old Trek" was one show, and then some movies. Still, you could start watching any 90s era Star Trek without having seen any other, and it would still be a complete show, and that is the important point. Someone like me could have no interest in Voyager, watch only the first half of TNG, and then watch all of DS9 and still get the most out of the experience, and that's what's important when making a series.
We got the same thing in DS9 s6 and s7. One episode is about the dominion war then the next is Sisko's beef with the Vulcan baseball players I think the main problem here is the episode count of SNW which kind of restricts the number of mundane episodes sprinkled across the series, which means we never get a baseline tone of the series as a whole
@@davidgeslani48Yes, and it primarily worked because DS9 knew how to temper itself and pace things well enough that it felt like a relief from the dark subjects instead of jarring. Here, we had a silly crossover episode, followed by Doctor M'Benga committing premeditated murder... and getting away with it (goddess that episode was just... f*cked up) followed by a musical episode apparently?... It almost feels in bad taste in this case.
Even older Trek rarely did literal crossovers, where characters from one series were in another, except for the pilot episodes. So it's more like there was a shared universe and continuity, while each show still had its own identity. Which is kind of what's happening now too, except it feels like maybe the timelines are bit more muddled, especially with all the weird retcons and random additions to canon we're all trying to ignore now...
I mean...TNG had McCoy, Scotty, Spock, Sarek twice, Kirk in Generations (with a bit of Scotty and Chekov in the beginning), DS9 had the whole O'Brien family move over, then Worf in season 4, leading to Alexander in a few episodes and Kurn in another, then had Picard, Thomas Riker, Lwaxana Troi (3 times), Q, Vache, Gowron (frequently), Lursa & Beytor, Duras Jr and three TOS Klingons (one of whom was in 3 episodes), then Bashir and Quark turned around and each did a TNG episode, and Worf's grandfather showed up in Undiscovered Country, then Voyager had Quark, Sulu, Rand, Riker, Troi (twice), Barclay (multiple times), an alternate future version of Geordie, the Ferengi who got lost in The Price, a new Borg Queen and fake Boothbys (twice), while mirror universe Tuvok showed up in DS9, then Enterprise had Riker, Troi, Data (audio only), a Soong ancestor, Zefram Cochran (who had been in TOS before he was in First Contact) and T'pow...Gul Evec was in TNG, DS9 and Voyager, Dr Zimmerman was in DS9 and Voyager, Kahless had 2 separate copies appear: one in TOS, the other in TNG, for all we know the two Organians who appear in Enterprise could've been in TOS, Worf popped into the TNG movies from DS9, Janeway showed up in Nemesis, the TOS crew went on to TAS and the TOS movies, the TNG crew went on to the TNG movies, Spock jumped universes to appear in the Kelvin movies...and of course most of these series had Majel Barrett voicing the computer...
@@dupersuper1938 You forgot the next generation episode Birthright, where the enterprise was a ds9 and worf went off to find his father, while bashir worked with the robot to study some alien machine.
Since you brought up the uniforms, let's have a discussion on what implications to write down or reasons to disregard their inconsistency. I would like to start with a question: Has there been a case where navy crews had inconsistent uniforms between ships? If there is, what are the reasons for such?
Supply chain logistics. Every time they update the uniforms the rollout takes a couple years and it’s a mixed bag like in Generations. Of course since they have replicators that should happen overnight on the Enterprise.
I agree in wanting the fleet composition to include ships from the different shows, I do love the fleet shots in the new shows but they need to continue to take a leaf from Star Trek Online’s book and use their varied fleet compositions. I played a mission recently and the federation fleet included ships from Picard, Lower Decks, TNG, DS9, Voyager and even their own unique designs, it made the fleet feel so full.
It is interesting you bring up the uniforms because from TNG season 3 all the way up to Enterprise there was ONE costume designer for all the shows and movies, Robert Blackman. Blackman designed all the costumes from the two piece TNG to the more flight suit oriented DS9 and Voyager costumes to the grey and black First Contact costumes. So having one costume designer really did help fold all those stories into one universe, unlike whatever they are doing with this disastrous Kurtzmen trek.
I feel like the uniform situation in the post TNG shows is some sort of "division" of starfleet. The LD uniforms are likely more science based. The uniforms from Prodigy are exploration. And the Picard uniforms are for a more militant branch. And the Gray dominion era uniforms are just holdovers from a time before Starfleet pretended it wasn't three different branches serving within one organization.
#SaveStarTrekProdigy I am okay with differing uniform styles if we can get another season of what turned out to be a very good Star Trek show that has appeal for Star Trek fans of every age.
Each of the tng, ds9 or voyage crossovers were only just cameos until the 30th anniversary. Where Ds9 and Voyager had the 1st true crossover but still not a full crossover. In trial's and tribblations and flashback.
In my head canon the uniforms are a non-issue. Starfleet is already so diverse that it makes perfect sense to have different uniforms for different ships, or divisions/squadrons, even flag officers from different fleets etc. Just imagine that there must be ships crewed mostly by Vulcans, Tellerites, Andorians and all the other major races.
I still say they could have saved so much grief by putting some of the new series in the Kelvin Timeline/Universe. They could have experimented and without worrying about timelines in the prime.
One of the VFX supervisors on Picard season 3 said his team proposed depicting the California and Parliament classes (presumably using the higher detail STO models) as background ships during the first episode's spacedock sequence. However, this was denied from high above, for (he later said) "creative reasons". Though bear in mind Cryptic themselves seemingly ran afoul of the Lower Decks production team a few times. First, when Cryptic gave away free duty officer cards of the LD main cast, they depicted the characters using the game's character models. This was very quickly pulled (despite approval from CBS) and replaced with stock Lower Decks art. Secondly, Cryptic usually enjoys a smooth approval process with CBS for ships, but the Parliament class, which was made in higher detail to better fit STO, underwent a lot of back and forth with the LD production team before approval was given. So I dunno if there's some sort of turf thing going on in these Trek productions.
The sheer number of post-Voyager uniforms with little-to-no coordination or consistency between the shows really hurts my soul. I wish they'd all just gone with the All Good Things uniform and called it a day. Also, not a big fan of Discovery, but I do like how they tried to show where the ENT uniforms ended and the TOS uniforms began.
I definitely wouldn’t have minded that, since that uniform is the only thing I paid real money for in STO back in the day. At least the combadge is basically that one now they’ve made the back piece brass again, and literally is the same in Prodigy.
I just ended a Live Stream, CNA Stream 164, where one of the things we talked about was Star Trek Crossovers, what constitutes a crossover vs. things like, character cameo, passing of the torch moments, actor cameo, etc. We posited that only 7 episodes/movies count as actual Crossovers. TNG Relics TNG Unification 1/2 DS9 Blood Oaths DS9 Trials and Tribble-ations VOY Flashbacks SNW Those Old Scientists Star Trek: Generations
In the original Star Trek each of the original 13 Constitution Class starships had their own symbols.... to represent the unique nature of each ship and crew.... Yes that would not create a 'NICE" cohession....
My favourite uniform is the ds9 season 4 onward. It bugs me that it didn't happen in voyager. They made contact with the alpha quadrant so the world have had the updated design
Huh? Just because they had contact doesn't mean they'd wanna update their designs and waste precious replication when they have perfectly good uniforms already. I also doubt that changing uniforms would be anywhere near their first priority
Uniforms being different for the same reason every show has its own warp command = marketing and merchandising. They're chasing after the cool factor of other bigger franchises that have their own catchphrases and massive licensed merch. The problem is I don't think they realise trying to force catchphrases is uncool.
I've barely started the video and I just want to mention right off the bat how annoyingly close-but-not-quite-ideal STO is in my opinion for producing those clean starship flyby cinematics. In a graphics quality sense, I think it's perfect. One of the worst things that always bugs me just a little bit though is those engine trails that I don't believe have ever existed in any of the shows or movies. And the thing is, I understand perfectly why they use them. They need a good, quickly identifiable indication of how fast your ship is moving at a glance for gameplay purposes. I always wished they'd have just done what the shows always did though, where even at apparently "slow" impulse speeds you can see "stars" or more probably some kind of little space particles going by. It might not be quite as useful of an indicator for twitch gameplay, especially combat, but it'd be really nice if it was at least a toggle-able option for when the bigger concern is just making everything look cinematically satisfying.
I wonder if the disparity between the modern Trek series is a conscious response/push-back to the more interconnected franchises that are starting to lose steam from continuity bloat and viewer burnout.
but man that is sad for Prodigy this seems to happen everytime i get used to something im interested in they cut it off untiredly same with TALESPIN and SLIDERS i hope they do bring it back later on with a more into the storyline universe they are time remnants form an alt future like what Janeway did at the end of Voyager and crushing the BORG with a killer virus
Picard is basically non-cannon anyway.. nor in the spirit of the franchise luckily, we know it's timeline is specifically diverged from the rest of the show.... which was 100% the correct call by the studio though also less than purely Rodenberry Star-Trek, I am really sad they killed off prodigy... it was a good product, even if I could never quite reconcile it with StarTrek as a franchise...
The sometimes not so subtle changes in uniforms might be explained in part by smart fabrics with certain shapechanging abilities. A fleet of uniforms which update according to rank, service record, ship affiliation, job duties, current assignment, Starfleet operational statuses, or any of a number of other reasons? Sure, it's telegraphing all this overtly to friend and foe alike. Not very subtle at all. But the visual impact of any update flashing across every uniform in the Federation at once? That might be something they want to telegraph. #subtlenotsubtle
I think that they eventually want to make a secion 31 series because they love using that agency as a narrative tool. As for moving on in the 32nd century I wish it was more than an academy show, even though it has lots of interesting possibilities for taking it in a new direction. Dont tell me, these two ideas are going to be put together aren't they? I think I heard that somewhere, quite possibly here actually.
No, they just want more MONEY. Shit is bad enough as it is with all these star trek shows playing over reach other - sure, add yet ANOTHER one, that'll play out so well! Hey, why not make a series or ten about kelvin kirk and co.? 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
uhm, did you ever watched Star Trek before? If you care for shows with strong canon, you have to lock elsewhere or name a Time in TNG or TOS when they not contradict themself often on a weekyl basis
DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" was the apex of the Star Trek crossovers (and one of the greatest hours of television in the history of the medium). SNW's "Those Old Scientists" was the nadir. I miss when the showrunners of Star Trek had some level of respect for the intelligence of their audience.
More crossovers would be great, but considering that Picard just ended and Discovery is...........Discovery, I heard Prodigy was cancelled (not sure on that validity). For me SNW and LD are the only two ST shows that are airing right now that feel like ST
@@OptimusPrinceps_Augustus Renaming the ship as Enterprise is probably the biggest mistake of S3 of Picard. But if they do bring back Liam Shaw in some capacity I would be willing to give it a watch.
Prodigy isn't cancelled, it's release on Paramount + was cancelled. The next season is almost complete, still funded by CBS, and will be released on a different platform.
Prodigy is limbo at the moment. Paramount don't plan in releasing season 2 themselves and are looking for someone else to pick it up. If it does get picked up (really hope so) and it does well enough at its new home then more seasons might get commissioned, but it's all up in the air right now.
The uniform thing is the most annoying for me. Especially in Picard. They burn through 4 uniform designs in 3 seasons. One of those was. A flashback so I’ll let that off (and it was the best of the 4) but why change it EVERY season.
Much like Star Wars. You can look at a certain time frame. Look at the characters and events of that moment. Just enjoy them in that setting. Yet, when you branch out, look at how these events are made on the universe. The fact certain events had such a wide effect and others very localized but was still felt. It brings connection to the setting. To make it feel like one big universe. Transformers had an issue with this and still kind of do. There are so many different series and appearance changes. Even some characters having different names, due to real-life issues. For a time, Hasbro tried to bring all the universe's under one roof. All have one connecting series. That failed. All because some people just do not like following rules or already known outlines. Thus, it failed. Kind of. Much like real life. It is alright to have contradictions and holes in narrative. As nothing is clear cut. So when some writers and directors are trying to bring a few series under one connected timeline. There will be contradictions and plot holes. They will likely never be resolved. As that is kind of the point. It may piss people off. But, that is life. And well, it is good some are attempting to bring everything together to some degree. And others that are so far out there. They are their own self-contained story. It is nice. Just sucks that a lot of the talented writers are now threatened if the strikes break down and they get cut loose for cheap non-union talent and AI writing...that may not follow things well. And the whole Writers' Strike is a whole kettle of fish. I won't get into. I have opinions on the matter...and...it ain't in favor for both sides.
Modern Trek can not even keep its continuity consistent inside the same show, it would therefore be wildly optimistic for them to keep continuity with each other let alone the broader franchise, if they cared about such things The Gorn wouldn't be such a mess. If they do try they quite often end up tripping all over themselves by trying to say the world is changed and not changed at the same time , when all that does is give the viewer cognitive dissonance.
Well Discovery had 4 major problems to me: 1st it was supposed to be in the prime universe directly before TOS, yet did compleatly ignore lore and looks of that era. 2nd it was the often inmature and overbaring way the characters acted. Nothing like the professionals we saw in other shows before. 3rd it was the poor writing, that made it look like the entire universe was all about the main character. And that writing again had little to no respect for what came before. 4th it had a cast problem. By that I mean, that I did not know half of the bridge crew cast after 2 seasons. Compare that with Stramge New Worlds. Everyone gets some nice dedicated time to portray the characters. And that makes SNW a lot better. It is not a "I am the choosen one" show like Discovery, but instead a "we are a team" aproach. So the basic problem of Discovery was that it pretended to be Star Trek but did not fell like a part of it. It often felt like an insult, in the way it treated the Trek I grew up with and that I loved. I am so glad that show is canceled! As a lessons learned I'd say you make an awsome interconnected Universe. With the exception of Discovery! Please ignore that this show ever existed! And I hope that a potential Legacy show is respectful of the canon, trys to be a part of it and makes an effort to feel like real Trek. Thanks for reading.
The crossover of LD and SNW was just terrible. I love Lower Decks as it is the only NuTrek that feels like old Trek that continues to be told. But it is a series in its own right. I couldn’t even think of LD mixed in TNG. I mean after two scenes literally every TNG character would’ve told LD characters to start acting like Starfleet officers and not like a bunch of kids on a Halloween party. And same would’ve happened in DS9 or VOY.
Well with some alternate timeline Romulans, altering the past to prevent the 3rd world war and the later formation of Starfleet.(and other things?) At this point Trek history looks a bit bent out of shape, and more ajusting by the Department of Temporal Investigations may be needed.
Crossovers are rubbish. They NEVER work unless there is a probable cause for two shows to mix, like with DS9 and Emissary. That ONLY worked because of chief o'brien being transferred and playing off the whole picard vs sisko thing with the borg element. It DIDN't work with voyager, because there was absolutely NO REASON to have voyager launch from DS9 save for fandom.SNW ad LD crossover made no damned sense. Ir is the modern day garbage equivalent of crossing star trek with x-men... which they DID back in the 90s What's next? A musical ala freaking Buffy? Oh... F**k IT!
To pad my position on Trek, 80's kid who grew up on TNG, movies and VOY (thanks Australian FTA TV). Watched TOS, DS9 and ENT as a young adult and loved them. Loved the first JJ movie and meh on the last two. Tuned out of DISCO after S2, disliked Picard 1 and 2, adore 3. SNW 1 and 2 meh, love Prodigy and Lower Decks. As much as I enjoyed the SNW-Lower Decks crossover, it was a terrible decision to put it in SNW... They have 10 episodes a season and they already have a musical episode. 20% of the season is now 'wacky thing that happened in SPAAAACE!'. It should have been in Lower Decks as a two part episode. Where we can have the wacky Lower Decks take plus make fun of crossover Trek.
While the shows are all over the place it does try to keep the cannon. But I think we can thank Star Trek 2009 for these series. If that movie did not do was well as it did I think Star Trek was pretty dead,
So when it comes to the uniforms personally I like the DS9/1st contract uniform’s best because well they actually feel like something a military might wear and starfleet is most definitely a military well navy to be precise. This is something that has always bugged me when fans flat out refuse to accept what is clear to see but this is mostly because of a misunderstanding the federation is a civilian political organisation, starfleet on the other hand is a military organisation granted with a heavy focus on research and exploration but it’s first duty is to protect the federation, pacifism is great and all but it only really works if they other life in the galaxy dosnt want to kill or control you and sadly that just not how it works, if the federation didn’t have a military to protect it then the Klingon would most probably have just gone “”mine!”” With the federation and if they didn’t the Romulans definitely would have done.
Time again for everyone to start claiming their subjective opinions on the new Trek shows are somehow objective. Don't forget to throw around that nebulous, undefined word that starts W y'all!
I had been on the fence with "Nu Trek" being someone who grew up with TNG, DS9, and Voy but yes Lower Decks is the most Trek of all the new shows compared to the rest of them so you summed it up perfectly at 7:52 Its also I feel the most connected to the Lower Decks Characters more so then any other show. When Captain Freeman was incarcerated I cried out for her, I would never do that for any of these captains, well maybe Pike because Anson Mount is actually portrays the character very well. Do what I do, Discovery and Picard DO NOT EXIST in my head cannon. Just like the new Rhae trilogy of Star Wars never existed. Just like Rings of Power never happened. Cut the CRAP OUT and you will be happy.
Gonna be frankly honest wasn’t as big of a fan of the crossover between SNW and LD. Mariner is typically just barely skates under my little tolerance for arrogance in not pure evil characters but in SNW she jumped the line and everytime she was onscreen I just wanted her gone or to be slapped in the face for it. I’m not positive if it had to do with live action jarring it or more likely she just plays off the cast of lower decks better than STW but I was fine with the pure boimler section she was just annoying.
The semi-popular Fan Theory for the Star Trek Universe uniform changes I've always liked is they change them so that accidental Time Travellers know the time period without asking anyone.
The "unreliable narrator" take on Lower Decks is exactly how I see it. The events are canonical but sensationalized for the medium. You can also look at LD as in-universe events as retold by a Federation citizen making a show for entertainment or someone who downed loads of Orion booze.
imagine need weapons grade copium to fit a rick and morty show into star trek. attempting to have it be told by a unreliable narrator is just the icing on the cake and further proofs that it is not well written.
But I admire those who enjoy it, I simply cant see the appeal
@jobt1999 and yet you had no problem with vast amounts of canonicity problems being introduced when the final episode of Enterprise was a TNG holodeck game which we already know are usually different from historical events because the computer just fills things in
@@jobt1999it’s hardly like Rick and Morty. I feel like people just say that because he worked on the show for a season. And his episodes were kind of the least “Rick and Morty” style (playing with the formula) anyway. Just take Lower Decks on its own terms
I mean, according to the crossover, the Orion booze might quite literally be the reason for the exaggerated telling of the stories from Lower Decks.
@@jobt1999 Since you're comparing it to Rick and Morty, it seems unlikely you've ever watched it. This also makes you an unreliable narrator.
Also the tie-ins to ST:ENT in the SNW episode were well done. Showing that the SNW crew looks up to Archer's crew like Boimler looks up to them, and then the reveal about the NX-01 connection to the NCC-1701.
Why haven't we seen a slightly older Vulcan T'pol, a highly decorated Officer, and Vulcan Official, on SNW ?
@@OptimusPrinceps_Augustus why would you ask me? Ask the show runners.
@@OptimusPrinceps_Augustus oh yeah that would be cool!
@@OptimusPrinceps_Augustus Because Jolene Blalock hates thirsty nerds more than she likes money
@@ymishaus2266 Highly illogical
Ya know, I just developed an interesting headcanon: Starfleet *does* have their standard uniforms...but, they let captains have some leeway in the uniforms used for the crew of their ship. I could see that being a thing, since it'd make a captain feel like their ship is really *their* ship, it'd help foster crew unity since they're in *exclusive* uniforms, and also it genuinely just sounds like the kind of thing Starfleet would do, honestly, lol.
That is canon in Star Trek Online.
Not like they couldn't add their little tweaks to the replicators...
it could be by ship...
I kind of believe in many ways, a ship is a state onto itself under the full governance of it's captain... at least each capital ship not part of an actively joint fleet or not attached to another ship or station.
also could be by which force you are part of within the hierarchy...
sort of like the "Commandos", "Marines", "Rangers", etc. in the modern armed forces.
I mean, Starfleet consists of probably hundreds of different "missions" basically autonomous of each other with their own chains of command
makes sense if each has their own style of uniforms too...
In TOS this was expressed by their ship specific (when paid attention) badge.
It really annoys me how much Generations and VOY that fucked up the uniforms. When DS9 started the uniforms were clearly supposed to be a different class of uniform and not a replacement. I think it makes sense that Second Contact ships has the LD style uniforms as they’re the ones that will spend the most time with new species and having a friendlier more disarming appearance. I really like the idea that Starfleet has different classes of uniforms for different functions
I think you're absolutely right. Lower Decks is the best current Star Trek, because it is somehow more consistent with other Star Trek, than the other series. Strange New Worlds has also been a hit, because it also tends to respect canon, though I have some nitpicks about Spock.
I like that Boimler looks exactly like Boimler.
Most of the main characters in lower decks look like their voice actors
@@rootbear75 Other sci-fi cartoons I could think of have VA's who look remarkably like their characters, yet they recast them when adapting for live-action. Keeping the VA to play the character in live-action goes a long way towards making them feel like the same character across different mediums.
Indeed my kudos to the casting director.
Some of the characters were redesigned after the actors were cast so that they could potentially play them in live action. The biggest change is Mariner. The rolled up sleeves are about the only thing that remains from the concept art.
@@wendyheatherwood As the late Jack Webb would say... The stories what you are see is true, the names have been changed to protect the innocent...
Like Ben and Adam say on The Greatest Generation, Star Trek is at its best when "star trek is a place", and nothing made me happier as a kid during the late TNG era than seeing all the little details and cameos crossing over.
Oh hi, a fellow F.O.D.!
@@OmniGeno best boss I ever had!
The crossover between LD and SNW is the only reason I’m now going to go back and watch LD. It was so funny and amazing. “You look….. very realistic”
Be patient with the 1st season of LD; it’s humor doesn’t always land. Seasons 2 & 3 were fantastic.
I too am _considering_ watching LD due to the cross-over ep. Having said that, the two cartoon characters made flesh seemed like youths from _our_ present in contrast to the more mature and setting-appropriate characters around them, which jarred for me. On the other hand, that animated opening sequence was possibly better than the standard one, and certainly far more crisp.
@@originaluddite to be fair, they’re both ensigns which in ST are typically youths or really bad at their jobs old men, so I didn’t expect them to be mature and seasoned officers but I do get your meaning.
@@MemoirsofaBasketcase thanks for the tip!
@@flowrebaz6189 Oh wow "really bad at their jobs old men" suddenly made me think of that alternate timeline Picard who never left sciences.
You missed mentioning quite a few crossovers. Just to mention a few:
TOS-TNG crossovers - The pilot of ST:TNG had a handoff-type crossover with Dr. McCoy appearing on the Enterprise-D, Spock's father Sarek appearing in TNG's season 3 episode "Sarek" and season 5's two-part "Unification" episodes also featuring Spock himself, Scotty appearing in the Season 6 episode Relics.
DS9 had additional TNG crossovers with Data and Q each making appearances, and Worf transitioning in as a later regular cast.
VOY had several Q apperances, one of which dragged in Riker from TNG. It also had a TOS movie series crossover with Tuvok's flashback to serving on Sulu's Excelsior.
Enterprise's Mirror Universe crossover also touched base with TOS, essentially being the transdimensional beaching of the TOS-lost U.S.S. Defiant, and of course its much-derided series finale framed as being relived by TNG-Riker on the holodeck.
I would argue Barclay working on the Pathfinder Project also counts as a crossover between Voyager and TNG.
Good calls, although I don't think the mirror universe episodes count as crossovers
And the episode where the Doctor goes to treat Lewis Zimmerman, who is also seen in DS9 creating a new medical hologram based on Julian
@@ElOchentero The U.S.S. Defiant was pulled into the mirror universe, but was from the prime TOS universe in the 3rd season episode The Tholian Web. Whether or not its crosssover I guess depends on whether a specific starship is an element that, when crossing over from one series into a separate series qualifies as a crossover.
I'd also count the DS9 episodes that featured the returning TOS Klingons
A few of the lower decks ships showed up in the first and last episode of Picard season 2 when the borg were on the show and you can see a few of them in and around space dock in season 3 as well as the battle
DS9 is for me the best Star Trek spin off ever. But Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds are not bad too. 🖖
I'll be wishing for another Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds crossover.
I think the writers/producers of Picard were very clear on that they wanted to stay away as much as possible from the rest of the franchise at least for the first two seasons, and indeed succeeded because those two seasons feel like a whole different show from another franchise, even including thing that has never been mentioned in any other show (like the use of "synthethics" like androids workers when it was previously established that they use holograms or that the entire galaxy had a treaty forbidin the development of cybernetic brains). Also I think it was kind of implied that for season 3 they wanted to reset things and pretend seasons 1 and 2 didn't happen, some characters just disapear and are not mention again like Riker's daughter and Picard Romulan love interest
I couldn't watch S1 or 2. They were so bad. S3 I watches the whole thing and dare I say I enjoyed it.
Rulers daughter is mentioned but she isn't important to the story, but yeah over all I think s3 would be a great launch point for that obviously planted seven of nine Jack Picard raffi show they had planned and I think it could be the trek so many plans have been looking for
What exactly does this ban on AI even entail? I haven't watched Picard so I don't know.
Did Starfleet one day just decide that AI are too unreliable and initiated a 40K style purge? Did Starfleet go out and arrest them all just for existing? Do I have to look forward to seeing Peanut Hamper and her entire family of Exocomps getting taken in by Starfleet for the crime of being AI?
@@anthonyrodriguez8788 well thankfully not or was not shown on camera. For what I grasp the prohibition is in creating any new AI.
Also is not clear if refers to all AIs or just positronic brains/Zoong-type androids which I hope so cause otherwise what happened to the Exocombs who are already Federation citizens? Can't they reproduce anymore?
In any case the ban is apparently lifted at the end of the season so it was pretty much worhless.
Rikers daughter was mentioned
While I agree that the constant changes to uniforms in newer series don't exactly help them feel connected, it has precedent in both the setting itself as well as real life.
The TNG era alone saw _at least_ 3 major overhauls, from the early "frilly" TNG style over the classic look, the inverted later style and eventually the Dominion War uniform. TOS had at least two I remember, from the original one over the fleet-wide red to the white/grey sets. And don't even get me started on "dress uniforms", which seem to simply follow the respective year's fashion trends, or be whatever the respective officers currently had on hand.
IRL there have also been instances where there's only a couple of years between uniform changes/overhauls. The disaster of the "UCP" camo pattern comes to mind where the US military wasted billions researching a new camo pattern that ended up only blending in with that one famous picture of a couch and nothing else - and ended up thrown out as soon as the ones responsible no longer held enough sway to sweet-talk it...
I can see similar things at play in Starfleet: Overly ambitious lesser admirals suffering from self-importance (as they canonically tend to do) and wanting to make _some_ lasting impact on the fleet. So some who can't make their name as a specialist in some operational/tactical field may opt to devote their time to minor things, like promoting their new favorite uniform design to be accepted. You can even end up with partial adoption of multiple styles, like the original split of "ship" and "station" uniforms between TNG and DS9 - where either one of them ends up winning out, or several waves that never end up unified will propagate across the entire fleet. Let's say Alpha Quadrant sections adopt double shoulder stripes for active vessels while Beta Quadrant switches to a lab coat style for any ship/installation that is mainly dedicated to research...
Thank You and it seemed the US had uniform issues for last 20 years but thankfully we finally found ones we acatully like. Also just take the US in WW2 for exemple where the US alone had around a doezen different uniforms though out it's milltary so why can't the lower decks uniform be just a regional or ship type thing?
I never really understand the uniform change in Star Trek, until someone explained that uniform change is base on the war the Starfleet has been in.
I just like Prodigy though. In a lot of ways, as much as it can break canon, it's got the heart of Star Trek that just seems to be missing from Disco and the first seasons of Picard.
Prodigy isn’t ending, they’re finishing up season two and they’re looking for a new place to air it. While Paramount CEOs are doing whatever the hell they’re doing and removing it, the Star Trek creative team/administration has total faith in that show. It will be coming back somehow.
Really enjoying these more out of universe videos, as much as I also enjoy your original lore-focused videos
100% agree about the uniforms. I know that each series “has to” be distinct, but let’s have some connection.
Love the Strange New World uniforms as modern take on TOS though
It makes sense for Picard and Discovery seasons 3 and 4, but the Picard flashbacks, Prodigy uniforms, Lower Decks uniforms and latter day DS9/TNG movies grey shoulder padded uniforms also still being used makes 2380 - 2386 feel a little like Starfleet's having an identity crisis.
When it comes to the different uniforms, I view them as uniforms for different departments, like crew from lower decccks has a uniform for the roles they do, the dominion war uniforms are for more battle ready ships and picard uniforms might be more for earth based and diplomatic missions, like evacuating the romulans. Not the best explain but it makes some sense, similar to when there were two different uniforms during the TNG era.
This sounds possible. Remember that the Motion Picture is Canon to the universe, meaning that outfit overhauls for ships aren't a foreign concept (even if their use was only for a short while).
I kind of feel like they took STO's approach to the uniform and decided that Starfleet would just have multiple different designs at once.
Season 3 of Picard was a lot of fan-service sure, but the season served as a last send-off and goodbye to not only Captain Picard, but the whole TNG era as a whole as well.
I have to say I like the idea of the original Discovery uniforms as a sort of evolution of the Archer era uniforms.
But then it could also have been an opportunity for setting Discovery shortly after 2161, perhaps in the early 2200s or so, more detached from TOS and at the same time a spiritual successor to Star Trek Enterprise and the chance to fill the lore that Enterprise never could due to being cancelled.
LD got a lot better after the first season, I love it now.
After TNG, it appears the Federation has adopted specialty uniforms, the White Border Fold overs from LD seem to be the design set for the California and its class of ship. The Transition from the TNG fold over to the Grey Collar was I believe to distinguish Station personnel from Ship Personnel but i we see Sisko wears the TNG style in the Paradise Lost plot line while acting as Head of Starfleet Security on Earth. I was hoping in Voyager after they made contact with the Federation that Starfleet would send in one of the data bursts, the specs for the FC uniform and we'd see the crew begin to transition to the New Uniform with the Senior Staff wearing them first and as the series progressed Junior Officers and Crewmen begin wearing them, however given Voyager is supposed to be having power issues, this could be the reason they stayed with the DS9 uniforms in series.
Ever since ds9 I've always assumed that most ships or different stations had unique uniforms and the costume department didn't want to have to design new ones for every ship/station they visited. That was also a thing in this if I'm remembering right
Why isn't Vulcan T'pol not on SNW, she would be a highly decorated Officer by now ? 🖖
She would be ~170 years old. Life expectancy of a Vulcan is 200 years. 30 years isn't a whole lot to a Vulcan, so chances are she retired and is doing something in the Vulcan science academy, or meditating, or artistry, or something else.
@@IanRoach17perhaps she works in T’Pau’s staff!
ye, we had Spock and Savic in TNG so why still give in to the Gatekeepers that try to tell us that everything New is bad and try to exclude everything ENT
@@IanRoach17 Great, let's all see what she's up to 🖖
@@IanRoach17 and how did Tuvok know Admiral Kirk and Spock, perhaps they live longer than 200 ?
I think there's a very fine line to be walked here, and by looking back at 90's Trek, we can see a way forward for 20's Trek. Yes, I think having a more cohesive universe would be beneficial, but only to a point. I think Marvel and Star Wars currently have a problem in that they expect everybody to have watched every single show and movie (even if they're not good) in order to know what's happening in other movies/shows. They've been drifting from that a bit, but it still means you get something like Mandalorian S3E01 where it's just a recap of the end of Book of Boba Fett. If Star Trek can create a universe where it's not necessary to catch every single show, but still have connectedness for those who do, then I think they'll be good moving forward.
I disagree, they need a good show to start a series to series transfer and they definitely should be connected other than a crossover or passing mention of something, that's how old trek worked. You could watch any of them and not feel like your missing much because they were their own shows and that's how it should've been but every show they've made since minus lower decks and Picard s3 and lower decks isn't fit for a spin off trek series so I'd say the ending of Picard s3 is the best way to move forward in this manner
@@Jiub_SN"Old Trek" was one show, and then some movies. Still, you could start watching any 90s era Star Trek without having seen any other, and it would still be a complete show, and that is the important point. Someone like me could have no interest in Voyager, watch only the first half of TNG, and then watch all of DS9 and still get the most out of the experience, and that's what's important when making a series.
I love Strange New Worlds, but the order of things too... they do a comedic cross over episode followed by a War PTSD episode. Such a hard shift
We got the same thing in DS9 s6 and s7. One episode is about the dominion war then the next is Sisko's beef with the Vulcan baseball players
I think the main problem here is the episode count of SNW which kind of restricts the number of mundane episodes sprinkled across the series, which means we never get a baseline tone of the series as a whole
@@davidgeslani48Yes, and it primarily worked because DS9 knew how to temper itself and pace things well enough that it felt like a relief from the dark subjects instead of jarring.
Here, we had a silly crossover episode, followed by Doctor M'Benga committing premeditated murder... and getting away with it (goddess that episode was just... f*cked up) followed by a musical episode apparently?... It almost feels in bad taste in this case.
Even older Trek rarely did literal crossovers, where characters from one series were in another, except for the pilot episodes. So it's more like there was a shared universe and continuity, while each show still had its own identity. Which is kind of what's happening now too, except it feels like maybe the timelines are bit more muddled, especially with all the weird retcons and random additions to canon we're all trying to ignore now...
I mean...TNG had McCoy, Scotty, Spock, Sarek twice, Kirk in Generations (with a bit of Scotty and Chekov in the beginning), DS9 had the whole O'Brien family move over, then Worf in season 4, leading to Alexander in a few episodes and Kurn in another, then had Picard, Thomas Riker, Lwaxana Troi (3 times), Q, Vache, Gowron (frequently), Lursa & Beytor, Duras Jr and three TOS Klingons (one of whom was in 3 episodes), then Bashir and Quark turned around and each did a TNG episode, and Worf's grandfather showed up in Undiscovered Country, then Voyager had Quark, Sulu, Rand, Riker, Troi (twice), Barclay (multiple times), an alternate future version of Geordie, the Ferengi who got lost in The Price, a new Borg Queen and fake Boothbys (twice), while mirror universe Tuvok showed up in DS9, then Enterprise had Riker, Troi, Data (audio only), a Soong ancestor, Zefram Cochran (who had been in TOS before he was in First Contact) and T'pow...Gul Evec was in TNG, DS9 and Voyager, Dr Zimmerman was in DS9 and Voyager, Kahless had 2 separate copies appear: one in TOS, the other in TNG, for all we know the two Organians who appear in Enterprise could've been in TOS, Worf popped into the TNG movies from DS9, Janeway showed up in Nemesis, the TOS crew went on to TAS and the TOS movies, the TNG crew went on to the TNG movies, Spock jumped universes to appear in the Kelvin movies...and of course most of these series had Majel Barrett voicing the computer...
@@dupersuper1938 You forgot the next generation episode Birthright, where the enterprise was a ds9 and worf went off to find his father, while bashir worked with the robot to study some alien machine.
The crossover in SNW recently was 🔥:D
That's how you write Ensign Boimler!
Since you brought up the uniforms, let's have a discussion on what implications to write down or reasons to disregard their inconsistency.
I would like to start with a question: Has there been a case where navy crews had inconsistent uniforms between ships? If there is, what are the reasons for such?
Supply chain logistics. Every time they update the uniforms the rollout takes a couple years and it’s a mixed bag like in Generations. Of course since they have replicators that should happen overnight on the Enterprise.
I agree in wanting the fleet composition to include ships from the different shows, I do love the fleet shots in the new shows but they need to continue to take a leaf from Star Trek Online’s book and use their varied fleet compositions. I played a mission recently and the federation fleet included ships from Picard, Lower Decks, TNG, DS9, Voyager and even their own unique designs, it made the fleet feel so full.
It is interesting you bring up the uniforms because from TNG season 3 all the way up to Enterprise there was ONE costume designer for all the shows and movies, Robert Blackman. Blackman designed all the costumes from the two piece TNG to the more flight suit oriented DS9 and Voyager costumes to the grey and black First Contact costumes. So having one costume designer really did help fold all those stories into one universe, unlike whatever they are doing with this disastrous Kurtzmen trek.
I just ignore that hate-fiction nutrek trash and it doing wonders for me.
I feel like the uniform situation in the post TNG shows is some sort of "division" of starfleet.
The LD uniforms are likely more science based.
The uniforms from Prodigy are exploration.
And the Picard uniforms are for a more militant branch.
And the Gray dominion era uniforms are just holdovers from a time before Starfleet pretended it wasn't three different branches serving within one organization.
How do you figure TNG's time-frame overlaps Voyager's?
One ends in 2370, and the other begins in 2371.
Only if you ignore the movies
@@xp7575 Ah, good point.
I just have to say, that episode with SNW and Lower Decks was awesome. Easily the best Star Trek episode in the entire franchise in my humble opinion.
I demand a live action lower decks series...lol
Constant uniform changes aren't unrealistic. Just look at the uniforms of the US Navy over the last 15 years...
What are the canonical problems with Prodigy? I never watched Voyager so I may have missed a lot.
#SaveStarTrekProdigy
I am okay with differing uniform styles if we can get another season of what turned out to be a very good Star Trek show that has appeal for Star Trek fans of every age.
Lower Decks I imagine is the events retold in a bar after a few drinks of real alcohol, no synthahol involved, so yeah events gonna be wacky.
No mention of Thomas Riker’s cross over from TNG to DS9?
Each of the tng, ds9 or voyage crossovers were only just cameos until the 30th anniversary. Where Ds9 and Voyager had the 1st true crossover but still not a full crossover. In trial's and tribblations and flashback.
when we look how long it takes for a department to get new uniforms anywhere in the world, it is crazy how fast the federation changes theres
Well the have replicators since before tos thanks to the std retcon
Welcome to the replicator enabled post scarcity society.
@@dupersuper1938 yeah Kids, cute that you think that what takes long for deparmentments getting new uniforms is production
In my head canon the uniforms are a non-issue. Starfleet is already so diverse that it makes perfect sense to have different uniforms for different ships, or divisions/squadrons, even flag officers from different fleets etc. Just imagine that there must be ships crewed mostly by Vulcans, Tellerites, Andorians and all the other major races.
I still say they could have saved so much grief by putting some of the new series in the Kelvin Timeline/Universe. They could have experimented and without worrying about timelines in the prime.
Yeah disco and maybe snw should've gone there, they treat Spock and starfleet in general very similar to the films if not exactly like them
I loved the STLD and STNW crossover.
One of the VFX supervisors on Picard season 3 said his team proposed depicting the California and Parliament classes (presumably using the higher detail STO models) as background ships during the first episode's spacedock sequence. However, this was denied from high above, for (he later said) "creative reasons".
Though bear in mind Cryptic themselves seemingly ran afoul of the Lower Decks production team a few times. First, when Cryptic gave away free duty officer cards of the LD main cast, they depicted the characters using the game's character models. This was very quickly pulled (despite approval from CBS) and replaced with stock Lower Decks art. Secondly, Cryptic usually enjoys a smooth approval process with CBS for ships, but the Parliament class, which was made in higher detail to better fit STO, underwent a lot of back and forth with the LD production team before approval was given.
So I dunno if there's some sort of turf thing going on in these Trek productions.
The sheer number of post-Voyager uniforms with little-to-no coordination or consistency between the shows really hurts my soul. I wish they'd all just gone with the All Good Things uniform and called it a day.
Also, not a big fan of Discovery, but I do like how they tried to show where the ENT uniforms ended and the TOS uniforms began.
I definitely wouldn’t have minded that, since that uniform is the only thing I paid real money for in STO back in the day.
At least the combadge is basically that one now they’ve made the back piece brass again, and literally is the same in Prodigy.
It was so f****** funny I couldn't stop laughing strange new worlds is a f****** beast of a show
the different Uniforms in Lower Decks are apparently Uniforms for Second Contact crews the rest yeaah there should be some consistency or explanation
Whoops right off the bat. It was the Battle of Wolf 359!!!
I just ended a Live Stream, CNA Stream 164, where one of the things we talked about was Star Trek Crossovers, what constitutes a crossover vs. things like, character cameo, passing of the torch moments, actor cameo, etc.
We posited that only 7 episodes/movies count as actual Crossovers.
TNG Relics
TNG Unification 1/2
DS9 Blood Oaths
DS9 Trials and Tribble-ations
VOY Flashbacks
SNW Those Old Scientists
Star Trek: Generations
If RTD was writing for Star Trek he would definitely have an expanded universe for it, just like what he did for Doctor Who During 2005 - 2010.
In the original Star Trek each of the original 13 Constitution Class starships had their own symbols.... to represent the unique nature of each ship and crew.... Yes that would not create a 'NICE" cohession....
There are things they do share in common like they were all Constitution class starships but the crews on the ships were different and unique...
Great video! Really agree too
My favourite uniform is the ds9 season 4 onward. It bugs me that it didn't happen in voyager. They made contact with the alpha quadrant so the world have had the updated design
Huh? Just because they had contact doesn't mean they'd wanna update their designs and waste precious replication when they have perfectly good uniforms already. I also doubt that changing uniforms would be anywhere near their first priority
There was no "Goodbye"...
It just felt, wrong, somehow
The uniform changes are more frequent than the camo pattern changes of the US Army 😂
Thank you Rick
Uniforms being different for the same reason every show has its own warp command = marketing and merchandising. They're chasing after the cool factor of other bigger franchises that have their own catchphrases and massive licensed merch. The problem is I don't think they realise trying to force catchphrases is uncool.
I've barely started the video and I just want to mention right off the bat how annoyingly close-but-not-quite-ideal STO is in my opinion for producing those clean starship flyby cinematics. In a graphics quality sense, I think it's perfect. One of the worst things that always bugs me just a little bit though is those engine trails that I don't believe have ever existed in any of the shows or movies. And the thing is, I understand perfectly why they use them. They need a good, quickly identifiable indication of how fast your ship is moving at a glance for gameplay purposes. I always wished they'd have just done what the shows always did though, where even at apparently "slow" impulse speeds you can see "stars" or more probably some kind of little space particles going by. It might not be quite as useful of an indicator for twitch gameplay, especially combat, but it'd be really nice if it was at least a toggle-able option for when the bigger concern is just making everything look cinematically satisfying.
I wonder if the disparity between the modern Trek series is a conscious response/push-back to the more interconnected franchises that are starting to lose steam from continuity bloat and viewer burnout.
Did I miss hearing you give your thoughts on Paramount+ removing Prodigy from its library?
I don't think TH-cam lets them use the kinds of words he'd need to express such thoughts these days...
I haven't seen a lot of lower decks but what I did see felt like Rick and Morty in space.
I wish, instead of going back in time with Enterprise, they just continued the timeline after DS9 and Voyager.
I disagree. I prefer Star Trek when it's about exploring space and not when it's about being operatic.
@@filthycasual8187 going back in time hinders exploration angle because you are constrained by future.
but man that is sad for Prodigy this seems to happen everytime i get used to something im interested in they cut it off untiredly same with TALESPIN and SLIDERS i hope they do bring it back later on with a more into the storyline universe they are time remnants form an alt future like what Janeway did at the end of Voyager and crushing the BORG with a killer virus
Remember the amount of insignia in Star Trek TOS thats the 25. Century uniforms...
"The plan is; there is no plan!"
The TNG /DS9/VOY was by far the best era of trek by far
Continuity is important
LD is clearly made by people who love Star Trek while the other New Trek series don’t seem to be.
Picard is basically non-cannon anyway.. nor in the spirit of the franchise
luckily, we know it's timeline is specifically diverged from the rest of the show.... which was 100% the correct call by the studio
though also less than purely Rodenberry Star-Trek, I am really sad they killed off prodigy... it was a good product, even if I could never quite reconcile it with StarTrek as a franchise...
The sometimes not so subtle changes in uniforms might be explained in part by smart fabrics with certain shapechanging abilities. A fleet of uniforms which update according to rank, service record, ship affiliation, job duties, current assignment, Starfleet operational statuses, or any of a number of other reasons? Sure, it's telegraphing all this overtly to friend and foe alike. Not very subtle at all. But the visual impact of any update flashing across every uniform in the Federation at once? That might be something they want to telegraph. #subtlenotsubtle
I think that they eventually want to make a secion 31 series because they love using that agency as a narrative tool. As for moving on in the 32nd century I wish it was more than an academy show, even though it has lots of interesting possibilities for taking it in a new direction. Dont tell me, these two ideas are going to be put together aren't they? I think I heard that somewhere, quite possibly here actually.
No, they just want more MONEY. Shit is bad enough as it is with all these star trek shows playing over reach other - sure, add yet ANOTHER one, that'll play out so well! Hey, why not make a series or ten about kelvin kirk and co.? 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Pelia on Discovery!!!!! No need for time travel malarkey, she just lives it.
ST: Discovery just asked: What's this thing called "canon" 😬🙄
Just like the star wars sequels
STD couldn't even keep track of it's own show canon let alone the rest of trek
uhm, did you ever watched Star Trek before? If you care for shows with strong canon, you have to lock elsewhere or name a Time in TNG or TOS when they not contradict themself often on a weekyl basis
@@gimzod76 truth
DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" was the apex of the Star Trek crossovers (and one of the greatest hours of television in the history of the medium). SNW's "Those Old Scientists" was the nadir. I miss when the showrunners of Star Trek had some level of respect for the intelligence of their audience.
More crossovers would be great, but considering that Picard just ended and Discovery is...........Discovery, I heard Prodigy was cancelled (not sure on that validity). For me SNW and LD are the only two ST shows that are airing right now that feel like ST
Star Trek, Legacy, Captain 7 of 9 , USS Enterprise
@@OptimusPrinceps_Augustus Renaming the ship as Enterprise is probably the biggest mistake of S3 of Picard. But if they do bring back Liam Shaw in some capacity I would be willing to give it a watch.
Prodigy isn't cancelled, it's release on Paramount + was cancelled. The next season is almost complete, still funded by CBS, and will be released on a different platform.
@@neodigremo I'll go with 7 and the new Enterprise, the like on DS-9 the USS Sao Paulo was renamed the Defiant 🖖
Prodigy is limbo at the moment. Paramount don't plan in releasing season 2 themselves and are looking for someone else to pick it up. If it does get picked up (really hope so) and it does well enough at its new home then more seasons might get commissioned, but it's all up in the air right now.
The uniform thing is the most annoying for me. Especially in Picard. They burn through 4 uniform designs in 3 seasons. One of those was. A flashback so I’ll let that off (and it was the best of the 4) but why change it EVERY season.
Hopefully Lower Decks ignores STP.
Much like Star Wars. You can look at a certain time frame. Look at the characters and events of that moment. Just enjoy them in that setting. Yet, when you branch out, look at how these events are made on the universe. The fact certain events had such a wide effect and others very localized but was still felt. It brings connection to the setting. To make it feel like one big universe.
Transformers had an issue with this and still kind of do. There are so many different series and appearance changes. Even some characters having different names, due to real-life issues. For a time, Hasbro tried to bring all the universe's under one roof. All have one connecting series. That failed. All because some people just do not like following rules or already known outlines. Thus, it failed. Kind of.
Much like real life. It is alright to have contradictions and holes in narrative. As nothing is clear cut. So when some writers and directors are trying to bring a few series under one connected timeline. There will be contradictions and plot holes. They will likely never be resolved. As that is kind of the point. It may piss people off. But, that is life. And well, it is good some are attempting to bring everything together to some degree. And others that are so far out there. They are their own self-contained story. It is nice.
Just sucks that a lot of the talented writers are now threatened if the strikes break down and they get cut loose for cheap non-union talent and AI writing...that may not follow things well. And the whole Writers' Strike is a whole kettle of fish. I won't get into. I have opinions on the matter...and...it ain't in favor for both sides.
Modern Trek can not even keep its continuity consistent inside the same show, it would therefore be wildly optimistic for them to keep continuity with each other let alone the broader franchise, if they cared about such things The Gorn wouldn't be such a mess. If they do try they quite often end up tripping all over themselves by trying to say the world is changed and not changed at the same time , when all that does is give the viewer cognitive dissonance.
For the algorithm 👊 ❤️
"An established, larger picture"; dear Lords, are you saying that CANON is important for a franchise...? *gasp*
Well Discovery had 4 major problems to me:
1st it was supposed to be in the prime universe directly before TOS, yet did compleatly ignore lore and looks of that era.
2nd it was the often inmature and overbaring way the characters acted. Nothing like the professionals we saw in other shows before.
3rd it was the poor writing, that made it look like the entire universe was all about the main character. And that writing again had little to no respect for what came before.
4th it had a cast problem. By that I mean, that I did not know half of the bridge crew cast after 2 seasons. Compare that with Stramge New Worlds. Everyone gets some nice dedicated time to portray the characters. And that makes SNW a lot better. It is not a "I am the choosen one" show like Discovery, but instead a "we are a team" aproach.
So the basic problem of Discovery was that it pretended to be Star Trek but did not fell like a part of it. It often felt like an insult, in the way it treated the Trek I grew up with and that I loved. I am so glad that show is canceled!
As a lessons learned I'd say you make an awsome interconnected Universe. With the exception of Discovery! Please ignore that this show ever existed! And I hope that a potential Legacy show is respectful of the canon, trys to be a part of it and makes an effort to feel like real Trek. Thanks for reading.
Star trek needs a Fiege
The crossover of LD and SNW was just terrible. I love Lower Decks as it is the only NuTrek that feels like old Trek that continues to be told. But it is a series in its own right.
I couldn’t even think of LD mixed in TNG. I mean after two scenes literally every TNG character would’ve told LD characters to start acting like Starfleet officers and not like a bunch of kids on a Halloween party. And same would’ve happened in DS9 or VOY.
Well with some alternate timeline Romulans, altering the past to prevent the 3rd world war and the later formation of Starfleet.(and other things?) At this point Trek history looks a bit bent out of shape, and more ajusting by the Department of Temporal Investigations may be needed.
strange new worlds and lower decks don't need to align on the canon, they need to both vanish
Crossovers are rubbish. They NEVER work unless there is a probable cause for two shows to mix, like with DS9 and Emissary. That ONLY worked because of chief o'brien being transferred and playing off the whole picard vs sisko thing with the borg element. It DIDN't work with voyager, because there was absolutely NO REASON to have voyager launch from DS9 save for fandom.SNW ad LD crossover made no damned sense. Ir is the modern day garbage equivalent of crossing star trek with x-men... which they DID back in the 90s
What's next? A musical ala freaking Buffy? Oh... F**k IT!
To pad my position on Trek, 80's kid who grew up on TNG, movies and VOY (thanks Australian FTA TV). Watched TOS, DS9 and ENT as a young adult and loved them. Loved the first JJ movie and meh on the last two. Tuned out of DISCO after S2, disliked Picard 1 and 2, adore 3. SNW 1 and 2 meh, love Prodigy and Lower Decks.
As much as I enjoyed the SNW-Lower Decks crossover, it was a terrible decision to put it in SNW... They have 10 episodes a season and they already have a musical episode. 20% of the season is now 'wacky thing that happened in SPAAAACE!'. It should have been in Lower Decks as a two part episode. Where we can have the wacky Lower Decks take plus make fun of crossover Trek.
While the shows are all over the place it does try to keep the cannon.
But I think we can thank Star Trek 2009 for these series. If that movie did not do was well as it did I think Star Trek was pretty dead,
You're probably right, as much as I disliked that movie.
So when it comes to the uniforms personally I like the DS9/1st contract uniform’s best because well they actually feel like something a military might wear and starfleet is most definitely a military well navy to be precise.
This is something that has always bugged me when fans flat out refuse to accept what is clear to see but this is mostly because of a misunderstanding the federation is a civilian political organisation, starfleet on the other hand is a military organisation granted with a heavy focus on research and exploration but it’s first duty is to protect the federation, pacifism is great and all but it only really works if they other life in the galaxy dosnt want to kill or control you and sadly that just not how it works, if the federation didn’t have a military to protect it then the Klingon would most probably have just gone “”mine!”” With the federation and if they didn’t the Romulans definitely would have done.
Time again for everyone to start claiming their subjective opinions on the new Trek shows are somehow objective. Don't forget to throw around that nebulous, undefined word that starts W y'all!
I had been on the fence with "Nu Trek" being someone who grew up with TNG, DS9, and Voy but yes Lower Decks is the most Trek of all the new shows compared to the rest of them so you summed it up perfectly at 7:52 Its also I feel the most connected to the Lower Decks Characters more so then any other show. When Captain Freeman was incarcerated I cried out for her, I would never do that for any of these captains, well maybe Pike because Anson Mount is actually portrays the character very well.
Do what I do, Discovery and Picard DO NOT EXIST in my head cannon. Just like the new Rhae trilogy of Star Wars never existed. Just like Rings of Power never happened. Cut the CRAP OUT and you will be happy.
137
With all due respect, I do hope that PROD gets new life. It was starting to get good, from an adult standpoint, when it was "cancelled". Ugh.
3:10 holy cow STO your drunk and out of scale.
All the uniform variants seen throughout Picard seasons 1-3 got really annoying
uniforms always change in real life 🙄
Personally, that cross over LD and SNW, was reeeeally unnecessary
Gonna be frankly honest wasn’t as big of a fan of the crossover between SNW and LD. Mariner is typically just barely skates under my little tolerance for arrogance in not pure evil characters but in SNW she jumped the line and everytime she was onscreen I just wanted her gone or to be slapped in the face for it. I’m not positive if it had to do with live action jarring it or more likely she just plays off the cast of lower decks better than STW but I was fine with the pure boimler section she was just annoying.