The Unexpected Genius of Bionic Propellers
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
- Since learning about toroidal propellers, I have been on a hunt to find the weirdest and most wonderful propellers around, that can help save energy and the life within our oceans. As it turns out, nature has yet again given us some clues as to how we should be making our propellers more efficient and less noisy.
Credits:
Producer: Ryan Hughes
Research: Sian Buckley and Ryan Hughes
Video Editing: @aniokukade and Ryan Hughes
Music: Joris Šimaitis
Bionic Propeller CAD file:
grabcad.com/library/biomimeti...
Sources:
[Dr Frank Fish] www.epo.org/en/news-events/eu...
[Lizard Propeller] www.sciencedirect.com/science...
[GEMS] www.science.org/doi/10.1126/s...
[Propeller Noise] www.rivieramm.com/news-conten....
[BigRep] bigrep.com/ebooks/high-perfor... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Marine Biologist Frank Fish? You cannot make this up!
Nominative Determinism
I worked with an Dr of biology specializing in avian biology named Dr Bird...
The sea was angry that day
@@vcprado- like an old man handing back soup at a deli.
Inventor of the toilet?
Thomas Crapper.
As a former submarine sonar tech you have no idea how terrified of cavitation I am 😂
Never been on a sub, but I played Sub Command, and the fear in the sonarman's voice when you start cavitating is visceral.
Makes sense, since short of going active, cavitating is the easiest way to get killed. The voice actor did a good job.
Cavitation in an underwater stealthy vehicle should be like blaring a loudspeaker saying, "Here I am! Shoot at me!"
"former" 😏
Yeah, you got me on that one, as I too have no idea of how terrified you were of cavitation.
@@sheerluckholmes5468 OP's comment is an English idiom for expressing a large amount/extent of something. For example, if I said, "You have no idea how bad at singing I am," my meaning would be that my singing is of such low quality that it is difficult to fathom. I would not say that phrase to tell you that because you have not heard my singing, you don't have a way to gauge its quality. That would be too literal an interpretation and would simply express an obvious fact.
As a Merchant Mariner, this is really exciting. Always a good day when you learn of a new technology that increases efficiency while ALSO helping the environment. It's a win-win for everyone.
I dunno. Big Auto took away the water engine. Big Energy took away the perpetual motion machine.
I expect Big Propeller to take this innovation away from us also.
a patent is holding it back, some one patent it ,but cavitesion go to cero if the propeller is place in front of the ship 🚢 with a pipe running the water back,this design reduce or eliminate the front wave and increase or fill the depression behind the ship, elevating water behind the ship increase propulsion .
Probably one of THE MOST important data points I've never even heard about! Absolutely remarkable! I've worked in the U.S.Air Force as a Jet Engine Mechanic and can say I NEVER envisioned this but was completely blown away at the context of this idea - coming from Whale fins??!! How mind blowing!
I love to see technology copying biology. I heard another presenter once say, why try to solve it yourself when biology has had the advantage of a billion years or trial an error! Reminds me how important it is to protect the environment, we have so much to learn from it!
@@dougjinks2694 + @AXNJXN1
yes. it has even been given an official scientific name: Biomimicry.
"shark skin, with its denticles or scales, is known to reduce drag
and increase swimming efficiency for sharks.
Applying a similar texture to aircraft skin has been explored
as a potential way to reduce drag and improve aerodynamic efficiency."
see also, _Lufthansa Technik Aeroshark_ 👍
Is this really all that recent though? I could swear I've been seeing those wavy blade shapes in CPU coolers for years now.
Recently, I had an enlightening experience while using a small electric motor on my boat. I want to share this because it illustrates the significant impact that underwater noises, like those from propellers, can have on marine life.
While I was out on the water, something remarkable happened. I switched the motor into reverse, and to my surprise, a seal popped its head up out of the water. Intrigued, I stopped the motor, and the seal submerged. But when I hit reverse again, the seal resurfaced. This wasn't a one-time occurrence. Each time I alternated between forward and reverse, even from a distance, the seal would respond by appearing while the engine was in reverse.
This was particularly striking because the motor I was using was very small and relatively quiet - an electric model. Yet, the seal's reaction was immediate and consistent. This interaction, as amazing as it was to witness, really drove home a crucial point for me.
It made me realize the profound effect that underwater noise - from things like propellers and even sonar - can have on aquatic creatures. The fact that even a small, 'silent' motor could elicit such a clear response from the seal underscores the sensitivity of marine life to our human-made sounds in their environment. It's an important consideration for all of us who spend time on the water and a reminder of the broader environmental impact of our activities.
Reverse psychology
If this was the case then aquatic animals would avoid loud natural sounds also. Is there any evidence of wildlife behaving similarly near waterfalls?
@@Grunttamerspecies that do not tolerate loud waterfalls stay away from them. Species that are adapted to be in or near loud waterfals can be found there. What is your point ?
Sound speed is 4X the speed underwater ✔️
The point about parent whales losing contact with their kids made me think of humans losing their partners at a rock concert - confusion created by 'noise' on the normal signals.
Just wanted to make a correction. At 1:57 there's a picture of a propeller that supposedly has cavitation damage. This is actually a picture of a brass propeller that's in the process of being repaired. The outer edges have been welded and the "cavitation damage" is actually the weld that was added to repair the propeller. This will be ground down to match the original shape of the propeller. Thought I'd clear that up incase anyone was confused.
And at 2:05 the computer model of the prop is nonsensical, as the pitch at the tips is greater than the one at the root, while it must be other way around. The prop shown is basically in a "feathered" position.
thought it was weird how the cavitation which "eats away" at the prop somehow managed to add material to it
Better pic at 2:27.
Engineer here - I wondered about that.
Thanks for clearing it up.
It is even easy to see the heat-affected zones from the welding.
The guy making this video lacks quite a lot of engineering knowledge I guess..
I must say, having used some 3D CAD/CAM drawing programs to design propellers, these are insanely cerebral from the onset. But introduction of tubercles to the edges makes these ever more insanely complex. Your presentation was professionally presented so that anyone could understand this content without struggling. Good job, Ziroth!
the solution is the placement of the propeller, water pump can run 25 years only when air is added to the instake damich appea
,so a tractor propeller because it have a back pressure and a pipe is a solution
I first learned about cavitation and its destructiveness as a mechanic working on Caterpillar hydraulic systems; how it would destroy the vane type hydraulic pumps needed to drive the massive rams on Cat scrapers and loaders. Later I learned about the noise issue as it relates to, particularly, submarines and how the U.S. Navy went to extraordinary lengths to keep the design of its submarine props, enshrouded, LITERALLY, in secret and how they could tell exactly where a Soviet submarine was simply by its noise signature. Even now, when you see pictures of U.S. Navy subs in drydock, their propellers are wrapped to keep them hidden from prying eyes. Truly fascinating stuff.
There is a computer fan maker called Noctua from Austria. They have been well known for making quiet fans. If you go their website you will see the same flutes on their fans. This idea came to them more than 20 years ago, after their R&D labs led them to fine tune their observations.
I'm a big fan of noctua!
I was going to mention Noctua as well. They have had these shapes on the blades of their fans for many years. Making them widely regarded as the best fans for desktop computers, for how quiet they are, and how much air they can push, buth volume and staic pressure wise.
@@pocketsk3824 Its more likely the difficulty of designing and mass producing these designs that's holding them back. The improvements might not scale with blade speed etc
My homebuilt PC is very quiet. It sits about two feet from me and I can barely hear it. I used Noctua fans for my build.
Edit: I should add that the room must be dead quiet for me to even barely hear the fans. Typically, I have no perception of sound from the case.
The bionics researchers at the Technical University of Berlin's group mentioned in the video when the 3D-printed parts were shown actually came up with that concept already in the 1990's. It is specifically based on the work of Dr. Rudolf Bannasch who got it patented back then. German company Blacknoise licensed it and has used it in their Noiseblocker series of PC fans several of which I use and which subjectively considerably outperform other contenders like Noctua and bequiet! in "cleanness" of the noise spectrum. Google for Noiseblocker fans and you'll see they look identical to the large ones in the video.
I did my dissertation on tubercles, the effect did not seem to be a primary effect of vortex or mixing as would seem intuitive but having a wing with a blend of chord lengths. This in effect smooths the lift/drag distribution so that the wing does not perform as per one specific aerofoil geometry but a blended solution of the chord ranges. This is not so useful for lift generation which can be designed for specified efficient parts of flight but it is useful for maximising the Angles of attack a control surface can be used at - it is not surprising in the end as the humpback whales use the fins for rapid turning and mobility for prey catching, not propulsion.
The paper I read they reduced drag from reducing cavitation
That's really cool. Is your dissertation uploaded somewhere?
So they are like fingers?
That sounds similar in concept to the reason for the helical strakes fitted to things like tall chimneys & the lesser known applications like subsea pipelines in order to prevent vortex-induced vibration (VIV). The reason they work is that vibration frequency is a function of diameter (amongst other things) and from any angle, strakes produce a varying effective diameter, which prevents 'lock-in' of the vibration.
That means we've both done real work with these. I was running high AoA and didn't see big effects. Our application was well sorted when we started, so it improve on it would have been tough. We couldn't.
I've long been interested in nature being the template for human design. As a kid I made clay models of cars and ran water over them to see how the natural flow affected the shape. So I'm fascinated to see this.
That's why they are better off playing outside...
Absolutely brilliant! And, as a spin off, understanding the dynamics of humpback whales was really awesome. I'd never thought how amazing it is that such huge animals propel themselves with such seemingly 'clunky' fins! Phenomenal!
Yeah me too
amazing how many designs that we previously thought were so efficient, have still so much to be bettered.
Bettered?
Improvered
@@alanESV2Improved
Yes I’m a grammar nazi…
“It’s amazing how many designs that we previously thought were so efficient, yet still have the potential for vast improvement.”
Converting 100% rotational energy into linear motion... so makes you wonder what a boat gets. 20%, 30%?
Losses from drag on haul in water, wind resistance, thermal...
....
I notice the belly of blue whale has strips down the length. Wonder if that helps create some kind of surface laminar flow or something, smoothing out micro surface turbulence. The nose of the blue whale also has bumps, perhaps its a similar situation. Perhaps a perfectly smooth nose cone is not the best solution!!!
...
There is an X prize, specifically for solving the turbulence problem. Its got like a million dollar prize. To be able to better define turbulence mathematically is the goal.
Basically... golden ratio, log, sinusoidal molecule packing propagation or something. If I knew how to describe it, Id be rich. lol
you're teaching me about so many types of propellors, literally couldn't think of the type of designs... amazing what innovation can do, thanks! :)
Well documented, well researched, not forgetting to highlight some drawbacks or hinderances as well and beatifully produced. That, sir, is worthy of my subscription :)
Fascinating! Excellent presentation, TH-cam needs quality content like this very badly now. Subscribed.
The inner kid in me is so happy to see so much research & testing being done around Biology inspired designs. Then Add in our advancements in material science, engineering, software performance testing methods, etc. I really think we are going to be surprised by what we end up developing. Each development could be unique and useful in different ways. For different tasks and so on. It's just awesome to see so much curiosity and development being combined in this field of productivity.
Couldn't agree more!
The ribbed propeller reminds me of vortex generators on an aircraft wing. The trick to fluid dynamics is balancing the tradeoff between lift/drag/weight and thrust. I love this presentation!❤
Same, vortex generators!
I had the same thought, but vortex generators work by mixing more energetic air into a boundary layer that is losing energy and is about to become detached from the airfoil which in turn reduces the thickness of the turbulent wake at the trailing edge of the foil; I'm not sure from the description of the video if this is how tubercles actually work hydrodynamically.
The shape also reminds me of chevrons at the edge of turbofan nozzles; another noise reducing technique.
Or wing fences. Very common on airliner wings since the 1950’s.
Wing fences, I believe, were devised to control problems with spanwise flow, not so much boundary layer separation. Though like vortex generators did create some extra drag in curing their respective problems.@@allangibson8494
I've owned boats for years and messed around with different props, they're incredible things the slightest adjustment to the blades size wise makes an enormous difference in slippage and performance, very interesting video a new subscriber gained.
I love it when I find a new channel that is as well produced and researched as this one. New subscriber here, this was fascinating!
Thanks for the kind words!
Just as a short side note. The 2 propellers shown use completely different concepts. One is a (water) propeller with structure on the leading edge, the other is a shrouded propeller with structure on the tailing edge. First one is probably good for slow moving air/water the other for fast moving air. Latter is also based on the concept of an owls wing to reduce noise and is already in wide spread use especially in noise reduced ventilation of factory floors (and PCs)
Your U-tube video is layed out beautifully. Your technical information is also very good and brilliant. Your new technical information is excellent. Please keep up the good work.
Excellent information, thank you for putting this together. Nature always has the best ideas
Very well done :) Smooth, nice, smooth delivery of information.
I love the recent spark of research and interest into reducing propellor noise in marine environments
I don’t know if the toroidal propeller sparked it, but I’ve been enjoying that so many brilliant people have contributed towards that research
It’s win-win for us and marine life to improve, love your work mate
I was in healthcare for a long time before going into engineering and biomimetics feel like one of those areas that’s right up my alley
No. Its been done for many many decades. Less noise = higher efficiency in all cases. Has been done since the dawn of propeller design. Just because dipshits on YT never knew about it does not make it all of a sudden "new"
@@w8stral then wouldn't an oscillating wave be more efficient? move kinda like an eel. have full length displacement at a slower frequency than a small propeller at high frequency?
Sure, if you want to move at 3 knots instead of 20.... No one gives a damn about efficiency at a speed of 3 knots. @@Kittsuera
Biologist Frank Fish???? Amazing
SIR, you do an amazing job, very knowledgeable and easy to follow. appreciate all the hard work!!!
Wow man! Good Stuff! I'll be sharing this link. It is not just the propellers that grabbed me, but its resemblance to the strakes that reduce the drag of wind and fluids on towers in storms. I bet we see a tie-in as research continues. Thanks for the show!
I can just imagine the advertising slogan if such props become commercial; “ribbed for mother nature’s pleasure”.
Similarly so in fast boats, the bottoms are NOT polished, they are usually roughened with 180-220 grit sandpaper to prevent micro Eddy's from sucking the hull to the water.
Sharkskin is likewise rough and reduces drag.
think golfballs . dimples work😊
Like golf balls that have dimples?
Seems nature is always the best teacher. Great video, thank you.
Love me some atmospheric mass effect background music. Fantastic and informative video.
Nature paper says "Our findings present a possible avenue for mitigating cavitation erosion through the application of inexpensive and environmentally friendly materials." It kind of seemed like you were saying GEMS would help mitigate the sound of the propellors and engines, but GEMS allow for louder propellors because the surface coating reduces cavitation damage and not cavitation itself, in theory allowing for faster and louder propellors.
So what if you combine tubicles and toroidal props?
Please avoid murdering children for the religion of their parents.
7:26 As a person who is flying RC gliders in competition , i experimented a lot about wingfoils and with zigzag tapes etc to make the air stick better and longer to the profile...
Around 20y ago, when i started it, i was thinking why propellers werent like that.... i saw the wide use for it back then already ..
Discussed it a lot with friends
And they would all have said it wasn't the thing to do, many years ago at the infancy of RC helicopters (no epicyclic, all off the throttle and often lots of bits on "landing"), I inquire about twin rotor helicopters like the Belvedere, (bit of a favourite), it was explained to me with all the aerodynamic reasons why at scale it would not work, come forward nigh on fifty years and you can buy indoor twin rotor craft at most good model sbops. We have had over two hundred years of what propellers should look like so this will take a lot of persuading to get people to accept it, no matter how good, and the only thing that will push it is the bottom line, how much money it can save, unfortunately sad but true.
@@CrusaderSports250 back then i said, if everybody was thinking like that negative, we wouldnt be flying today!
@jasmijnariel very true but getting over what is considered the way things work can be very difficult especially if you are also looking for funding.
@@CrusaderSports250 a good example of thinking outside "the box" is the tunnel like wings. They proof that we have to open up our brains that ANYTHING can work,we only need to invent it
Didn't the concept for the winglets we now see on commercial planes come from an RC model plane builder!!???
This was brilliantly done. Thank you.
Thank 🐢 you. Years ago when working on a ruff' sandy beach we 'toar up' the prop and noticed reduced vibration and cavitation.
And as a kid I noticed the wind trails during foggy weather were smoother from fence pickets with weathered tops.
With the Jesus lizard prop, that looks a lot like a voith-schneider turned on its side, you should check those out! They're not super common, but sometimes used in ships where a lot of thrust is needed in all directions, like tugboats. ABB recently unveiled the Dynafin that was inspired by whale fins, or so their marketing dept claims lol
Also I have a soft spot for super-cavitating props or chop props, which is an interesting way to work around the cavitation issue. They're basically only used in race boats because they're only efficient at very high speed
This looks like a good rabbit hole for me to start going down! Cheers 😀
@@ZirothTech Awesome! There's a lot of really cool tech in the offshore and maritime industry, happy to see it getting attention!
Googled Dynafin, very interesting!
That's why a golf ball with dimples, travels further compared to a similar size ball with no dimples. It seems rough over smooth appears counter-intuitive, but there is definitely some hidden secrets we can learn from nature.
Wow you wrote the first comment on youtube that is actually right about the "golfball" effect. Congrats.
I wonder why planes don't have dimples on one side or maybe both sides
It's only half right. It's the dimples AND the spin. If your club face hits flat, the ball won't go that far. If you put top spin on one, it will drop even faster. People have even experimented with dimpled rotating dirigible gas sections to add extra lift.
Wrong - Dimples on golf balls create a thin turbulent boundary layer of air that clings to the ball's surface, reducing drag and allowing the ball to travel farther. They also contribute to the lift force, with the spinning action causing higher air pressure on the bottom of the ball than the top, creating an upward force. This combination of reduced drag and increased lift due to the dimples allows a golf ball to travel about twice as far as a smooth ball would. Where as the tubulars being discussed here, redirect the flow of water into narrower channels on the surface of the fin (or blade). Two very different effects.
@@southern_merican ... I'm not saying that it's the case with airplane wings. But there are MANY cases where "we" know of solutions that would be "theoretically better" but that "in practice" are untenable. Either due to economic, production, maintenance or a host of other factors that has to be taken into account when "creating a product for the real world...
And I can easily see how "dimpled airplane wings" could be one such a case.
Crazy to think that we're 70 years into the jet age and we're just now starting to figure out how to make a good propellers awesome video
Jet engine was invented in the 1920s?
@@EhmedCousCous I think the first jet aircraft flew in like 1939 or something but I don’t know when the first jet engine was built. However, 70 years ago would be 1954. I was just trying to make a joke, but the point of the joke is more like we’ve moved on from prop planes for a very long time and now we’re just finally figuring out how to make a good prop.
What do you turbines are? We never moved past propellers @TomisaLami
@@leudast1215 a turbine can be multiple devices, but essentially they would all be a spinning mechanism with multiple fan blades used to produce force from a fluid I believe.
And I know you think you did something here but you didn’t because the turbine jet engine could work even better if it had better blades or what you mistakenly consider props.
@@EhmedCousCous 2024-70 = 1954...
Jet engines were invented around the beginning of WW2 but were too unreliable then. The first jet aircraft built in series was the Me-262 which was put in service in 1944, and jet engines became widespread in the 50s and 60s.
Thanks for this elaborate, yet easily understandable breakdown of this 'seemingly new' Technology 👍
Would be nice to see a toroidal-bionical propeller eficiency test results!
If these were first tested in 2008 with positive results, why hasn’t extra R&D taken place by the major manufacturers of props?
The whale being a slow mover has no cavitation to overcome so I find it unlikely it’d be much help with that, an owl on the other hand can fly stealthily with modified feather placement, but with the fluid viscosity being so different, it won’t work in water.
and if you scaled up the propeller significantly?
In my opinion even if it gives small gains in thrust for the boats it might be not profitable from manufacturing perspective. Making this kind of pattern in the stainless steel might not be an easy task. I can imagine it being first introduced in the small scale or in computer fan propellers. Of course if this gives any profits to air flow and acts well in high rpm conditions. Another aspect is if anyone has a patent for that.
@@aikenPL true about the patents especially, they could literally kill it dead in the water due to unreasonable licensing fees. (Pun intended)
No it was not tested first in 2008. WAY WAY before this. Decades before this. He needs to do more research. I read a paper as old as 1930's on it. So, it was probably done before then as well. Got me. Most ideas require a lot of $$$ to implement in a mass produced product to change industries.
@@w8stral could you share the 1930 reference please?
I’ve learned more from yt than I ever did in school
without question, the education system has long been broken.
I've owned a long string of boats since the age of 16 - 63 years ago. Little boats at first then bigger and bigger boats. I learned about cavitation with my first ski boat. I never gave much thought to it just adjusted the boat to the point where it was most effective. I read about these propeller designs earlier but your information about the whale was very interesting. Manufacturing cost and variability are the prohibitive constraints right now. I think the manufacturing issues will be worked out over time but they will still be costly. The same considerations have been used in wing design for some time. As to creative design, it is what human kind does. One building block at a time, each one enhancing what was done before. Every now and then something new will come along but even in that regard there is most often a history of development. Even some of Einstein's thinking was based on the creative thinking of other individuals. Good report.
Very interesting man ! Some tab or chart with comparison of this modern shape and the old one will be nice ;) Generally more specific information are always welcome :)
Pretty sure I've occasionally seen such ridged blades used in PC cooling fans for at least a decade now. They pop up now and then when a manufacturer claims a new breakthrough (as they do with every single new fan), and then the next generation after that goes back to being straight-bladed.
Wind turbines too, they got them on the trailing edge for a while now
I think Noctua still has some ridges along the blades of their fans.
Thank you for a clear explanation of a subject most do not have a lot of knowledge of. The answer of every question humankind has is in nature, if we take the time to find them.
So interesting!! Can learn a lot from nature clearly. Love the animations
Another interesting propeller design since you asked is one I saw where instead of contra rotating props one of them is essentially a stator, ie fixed, which has produced surprising and promising performance improvements.
What's surprising about thar? Counter rotatimg.props are not used because of their crazy noise levels giving you no access to civilan airports. Russian military does use them on some models.
Some militarry argo planes use them as well. The bypass mass flow ratio is way higher.
@@voster77hh so obvion!
These are actually on my list of things to look into! Hopefully a video on these will be underway soon
@@ZirothTech brilliant, ty
@@voster77hh There are some claims out there,
that a lot of the Counter rotating prop noise can be avoided,
if you have a different number of blades on prop 1 and 2.
Makes sense to me, but I'm not an expert.
Great video! I watch so many videos about the future of boating, and there is never any real innovation. They are always just we added Li ion batteries and a solar panel, and it's like that's so basic. It's long passed time for boats to get real advancements like this and other ideas.
Loving the SHARROW by VEEM Toroidal props currently under testing, looking forward to seeing the results they produce.
You did an amazing job amazing job. Loved it!
I became aware of the 'tubercle effect' at _least_ 10 years ago.
I'm a a bit surprised it hasn't been adapted to say room fans, as IIRC it moved 50%(?) more air using 20% less energy and was quieter than 'normal' fan blades.
If you want to talk about advancements in prop design, you might have mentioned the Sharrow prop. Totally different design, uses a third less fuel and produces more power. Used mainly for outboards but i don't see why the wouldn't work on a larger cruising boat.
Biologist, Frank Fish.
I just love these names that forge your life choices and interest so directly.
propellor innovation excites me so much
I learned about cavitation bubbles while watching vids about steam ocean liners. If a propeller was not made properly, it can cause serious vibrations throughout the ship, and make it uncomfortable for the passengers.
Interesting to see this kind of innovation, sure don't want to stick your finger in a fan that has teeth though.
Sticking a finger in a fan is bad whether or not it has teeth.
MAGA people would do it because they were told to do it.......dah
On the next episode of rctestflight
fully agree all sentiments there. looks like fantastic work by everyone to me.
Your videos are very professional. Thank you.
Nature is our best teacher. Millions of years of intense evolutionary engineering work that had proven successful.
Have you looked at the duo prop? Volvo-Penta introduced the idea a number of years ago, 2 props on the same drive shaft, turning in opposite directions. I can't remember the specific numbers but these props gave significantly better performance.
Best of all, they backed it up with production. The Volvo-Penta IPS drive for motor yachts comes with duo-props.
I am not familiar with maritime applications. In aviation however,just before the jet age took over,
aircraft such as the F4U,P47,P51,Seafire FR-47,were built with contra-rotating propellers.
2 three bladed props. YT has a great video of the only airworthy Seafire FR-47.
The Seafire FR-47,a Spitfire variant,used this design to neutralize the torque effect of the engine,
so as to utilize more power on take off from aircraft carriers.
Contra rotating- opposite rotation,same axis
Counter rotating-opposite rotation,different axis (P-38)
Cheers
@@billysolhurok5542 and the helicopters that have contra rotating props don't need or have a tail rotor.
Relatable observational brilliance. Whale forelimb groved flippers to air and sea propeller designs. And quieter too!
Great discussion. Well done.
What would be the benefits if the bionic shape would be implemented on a toroidal propeller? I would be very interested to see some test and what is improved or not with such a propeller :D
Could you combine this with toroidal propellers?
Would love to see someone test that
Only way to get people to convert is to combine it with a performance enhancing prop.
Same thought.
@@Makex_swedenexactly we @rctestflight to take the wheel on this
Me too. Especially if it improves the life of sea creatures and saves fuel@@Makex_sweden
Very interesting content. Thank you!
Thanks for posting.
I wonder if anyone has bothered to take a second look at the Junkers JU52. Its corrugated skin was to add torsional stiffness. Could it have improved aerodynamic performance by this Tubercle effect?
Imho, corrugated skin would add air drag, thus add a slowing effect on the aircraft. Not the same thing. I’ve flown in modern jet passenger planes and the noise from outside air flowing over the smooth skin at 500 or 600 mph is pretty loud and irritating to the passengers, especially if you’re sitting near the edge of the width of the plane.
The corrugations on the Junkers were mostly along the lines of airflow over the aircraft. They would make the 'wetted area' of the aircraft larger thus increasing drag. I wonder if they generated small vorticies which reduced large vortex formation and also reduced boundary layer separation? A bit of swings and roundabouts.@@larryray3178
Awesomesauce video!! A subject I thoroughly enjoy. I understand the reason for the tubercles. But why are they placed on the trailing edge of the propeller?? Would it be better if some were on the leading edge as well? To help cut down on drag?
Either way. THANK YOU very much for making this video.
Fascinating. Thanks.
I can’t stop laughing about the fact that the biologist’s name is “FRANK FISH”
I live on a sail catamaran. I can hear large ships passing by from my keels it’s crazy how loud they are and the oldest ones are the loudest
When I was a kid growing up on the St Lawrence River we could hear lakers coming from a few miles away easily. Those big single engine lakers sounded like a rythmic bump bump bump sound if your head was underwater.
I cannot wait to see the fusion between bionic and the MIT toroidal propellers
Hydroelectric generator turbine blades may also benefit from these design improvements if they provide a meaningful efficiency increase and reduce cavitation damage. Mother Nature is a great teacher. Thanks for the video.
Would be interesting to combine bionic and toroidal propellers. 🤔
Seems like mother nature has done this for millions of years and knows what she does
Mother nature also doesn't spin at thousands of RPM's. Not all the comparisons made are valid, but we definitely can learn a lot from nature! We live in a really interesting age!
Guided evolution is not a thing, which is why only 1 species of "fish" has tubercles.
Well... living beings ARE highly advanced technology. WE are all bionanotechnology. I mean look at enzymes, those are bionanomachines.
Excellent job!
I came up with a biomimetic propeller design back in 1997 or 1989 while working at Arcturus Marine Systems. I even have a "poor man's patent" of the idea - I mailed drawings and notes of the concept/design to myself in a stamped and sealed envelope. I even put an extra postal stamp on the back of the flap and had it canceled manually before I mailed it to myself, I still have that sitting in my fire safe.
You're telling me his name was Dr. Fish?
So can these shapes and their effects also be applied to toroidal propellers? Because toroidal propellers seem to already be more effective compared to traditional and traditional with these modifications, so are we able to mix the two ideas in a way where we gain even more effectiveness in the toroidal performance for efficiency and sound reduction?
I too, am extremely interested in learning this.
This is amazing!
I have the feeling that Dr. Fish really is in his element doing miritime science!
What about using golf ball dimples on propellers like was done on Mythbusters to improve MPG on a vehicle? Add that to the whale design then see if that does anything more for efficiency and noise reduction.
Completely forgot about golf balls, I was so deep into the tubercles research! This is definitely interesting, I'll get digging and see if there is more interesting things to learn on the topic of dimples
@@ZirothTech Great to hear!
It's incredible how we used to see ourselves as the head of innovation and evolution, and now that we're looking more outward and being a bit more humble, we can see that nature has done a lot of the work for us, and we still have a lot to learn.
That's how we made lots of important advances, planes as a whole are bionics! The basic shape of an aerofoil was copied from bird wings after all.
Very interesting! Just shows, again, that nature knows best!
Additive manufacturing at home is going to revolutionize many things. I'm already picturing how easily multiple variations can be produced and tested using plastics, before anything is committed to casts or die molds for metals. 👏
I'm wondering if the US Navy already knows about this....and has gone WAY beyond. They cover the propellers of the submarines. Would be interesting to know what they look like.
Yes, it would be extremely interesting, especially to a foreign spy. Why do you think the Navy covers them?
When you mentioned less noise with the less smooth surface it reminded me of Owls with noiseless fluffy feather edges, possibly a similar process going on.
My background is that of an unlimited ton captain, seeing the toroidal propeller had me thinking about if it could pay for itself by the time it was past its service life. Took in factors such as increased fuel efficiency, better thrust, and less wear and tear on the propulsion system. At the time a started calculating, it unfortunately did not pay for itself. This is in regard to the 45” diameter bronze alloy prop i need to use. I also need 2.
These bionic propellors have me excited. I need to research the price or a quote but i know they will be a fraction of the cost of a toroidal prop. Not a ton of published testing for the bionic prop but as soon as their is enough info, im hoping the gains can pay for the bionic prop or even start to make me a profit
Nice vid. Tho almost every time you say bionic you mean biomimetic.
He clearly tfk says biomimetic wtfk planet are ya on pretty sure it pertains to the prop surface at least in the context that its used in the above video so biomimetic by definition describes relation of prop surface fkn texture as it has relitave effect speeding through water strictly upon cavitation or how it affects prop surface when prop encounters cavitation mainly not fkn destroying the prop using mushroom shaped wtfk ever jfc I didn't graduate 7th grade but even then it's pretty clear like water clear if the listener enjoys entire video or is able to retain attention span of a minute plus lmao. And yes, the apparent lack of punctuation and run on sentences deffinatly proves that 7th grade drop out knowledge!!!!! Lol
Please use the Metric System as used by 94% of humanity.
This ia AMERICA! Go back to Europe !!😂
I’m glad they don’t. I hate the metric system. So many writers use it wrong. I once read a story involving a crew member of a space ship being a few centimeters taller than her fellow crew members, described as “towering over them.” Intrigued, and not being very well versed in the metric system, I used a formula to convert it to the standard English system and it turned out that the few centimeters converted to two or three inches. Towered over the others, indeed. If two or three inches is towering over others, then being 5 feet 10 inches tall, I must be a giant. 😅😊
Less than 10% of the books written before 1960 use metric. Very few of the Europeans I've met know what a pascal or a dyne is.
Very interesting. Always wanted to know about improving propeller design. 🙂
Dr Fish has to be the greatest name I’ve ever heard
0:46 the '..but first' here almost killed my willing enthusiasm 🤣
An excellent discovery!
I saw a fan with this structure, and this video answered my question
FANtastic! ;) As a PC fan reviewer, this is invaluable information! Thanks!
That's what I call SCIENCE! Great video!
That gems idea sounds outrageous. Truly, truly, outrageous.