How To CORRECTLY Use Your Thumb In Piano Scales | How To Practice Scales On The Piano Part 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
- Today's video is part 4 of our series on how to practice scales, "How To CORRECTLY Use Your Thumb In Piano Scales".
This is a step by step series so make sure and watch the other videos in the: • Adding forearm Rotatio...
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Thanks for this video. I'm an adult beginner, and practising scales has started to hurt my (rugby-battered) sausage-fingered hands. I've watched dozens of TH-cam teachers, and haven't been impressed with most of them - touting a fast, deep thumb tuck.
However, your straight-arm rotating forearm technique stands out as making most sense.
I now need to break my technique back to zero and start again but, with luck, the journey will be worth it, and the destination will be pain-free scales and arpeggios. 🙏👍
You're very welcome! I'm so glad that you found it helpful! When I was younger I had to have my technique retrained, it definitely was not easy but well worth it! Thanks for the support!!
Same as I found looking around for a great technique teacher. It's amazing that some still tout the deep thumb tuck, about as counterproductive as possible for such a common movement. I started at zero with technique, after bad habits for 10-15 years; it came really fast.
@crashrr. I too had "sausage fingers". The more you practice and play, your fingers will lean out and "look" longer but will actually get thiner as the fat gets converted to muscle. I teach my students this.
God and your Health 1st
Family 2nd
School work 3rd
Piano 4th
Socializing/Entertainment 5th
Video games.... virtually useless unless you are a soldier or pilot. Not even on the chart.
I schedule my students:
Get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep every day.
Exercise at least 30 minutes every day (consult your doctor on how much).
Eat 3 well nutritionally balanced high protein, moderate good fats, low carbohydrate meals with a multi vitamin every day (consult doctor).
Keep your calorie intake below your daily usage to lose weight (consult doctor).
God, family, and homework BEFORE piano.
Practice piano 1 hour a night just before bed. To help lean out your fingers and to induce sleep learning/processing.
Practice a bit more on the weekends when possible. Break it up too.
Sleep, nutrients, losing weight, and practice are ESSENTIAL for learning piano. Protiens (and Omega 3 fatty Acids) are brain food, along with Ginkobiloba and B-12 which help. Do research and consult your doctor. Large doses of B-12 and other vitamins can help the learning process.
Sorry, cheese burgers and pizzas have to go.
Eating more fish will feed you brain to learn.
Really good to see the demonstration done slowly with clear camera angles. I would have like to see the right hand scale on the way down as well as I find 1-3 and 1-4 rotations more awkward compare to 3-1 and 4-1. Looking forward to the arpeggios how to :)
Think you! Yes you are absolutely right, I should have included that in the video. Thanks for your support!
As a piano teacher with students coming to me with numerous technical issues, I have been looking for videos that clearly demonstrate pedagogically sound principles. I had difficulty finding videos that were either
1) "correct," in the sense that they seemed pedagogically sound 😊.
2) were presented clearly and communicated clearly.
3) were presented in a relatively calm and balanced manner and not dogmatically or in a strident tone.
Well, looks like I've found a channel that ticks all the boxes 😃. So far your videos are clear, fit in with my experience, or have helped me clarify my own thoughts. Keep up the good work 👍
I'm glad you found the channel helpful!
Right on.
Super advice and some good, slow detailed demonstration on how to practice scales, the most basic building block of music. Saw this before, didn't comment but did what C recommended. Started with rotation really slow and lateral forearm movement, C's "shifting. Over a few weeks and months have been able to increase speed with clarity, depending on scale into the high 200s and into the 300s bmp. It is critical to observe what often times is overlooked, that lateral forearm movement is the key to stepwise, scalar movement. It puts one in position, always on the spot, and prepares for further movement.
He's right about the thumb. It can go under without any tension to nearly the base of 3, but if you are moving the forearm never needs to go beyond that on the thumb cross under. I have a little more challenge with crossing 3, and especially 4 over, depending on the key, which rotation will help. His shifting of forearm is what gets me on the spot for rotation in either direction. As my tempi have increased, the gaps are not so noticeable, at speed the ear hears more of it wants and expects. When the context indicates, I play with a higher wrist, promoting more ease of thumb under. Check it out.
I don't make a study of all scales on their own. I warm up, practice with the scales and keys that appear in the piece I work on right after scales and arps off the roots of those keys. Here is my routine: contrary motion of each scale for 3 8vas from the center, increasing tempo. Then the same key in parallel 1 8va apart for 5 8vas starting the first 8va in 1/4 notes, up and down, adding the second time in 1/8 notes, up-down, adding next sequence in 3 8vas via triplets, up-down, etc., the 4th sequence of 4 8vas in 16th notes and the 5th sequence in quintuplets. The last series then, is 5 times faster than the first trying to keep the beat clear at higher speeds. Like 50 becomes 250 bpm on the last sequence. Then I repeat the same routine for arpeggios beginning in contrary motion for 3 8vas then parallel motion as the scales above. It works for me.
His tip about black/white keys is helpful. Most of the white keys and E flat M sequence the same fingers in both hands, in contrary motion, though playing different notes. Just another tip to help with de-mystifying part of it.
C's suggestions have helped me big time on the scales and arps. Biggest improvement overall comes from lateral forearm movement, for me that sets up everything else. The jump from scales to arps brings the larger intervals of 3rds and 4ths. New calibration of distances on these, then other larger ones.
Thank you for all participants in C's channel tutorials.
You deserve wayyy more views and subscribers. I'm glad I found your hidden gem of a channel. Have you heard of the Taubman method of piano playing? From your other videos it seems that you share a lot of concepts from that school of technique- from forearm rotation to the walking arm for alignment, etc. Thanks for the videos and keep it up!!
Many thanks! I am familiar with the Taubman approach, I have taken about 10 or so lessons with a few different Taubman teachers (I've actually taken lessons with Mary Moran). But all of these Concepts I learned before I learned about the Taubman approach from my teacher Dr Tanya stambuk. She developed many of these ideas on her own and from research (though she was not familiar with the Taubman approach until I told her about it).
Anyways, these technical Concepts have unlocked hidden potential that I never knew existed in me, in that I can play much more difficult repertoire with more ease. Pretty cool. Thanks for watching!
Totally agreed that your videos should be required for all adult piano learners. ;)
Super useful for begineers, Thanks a lot! Is the technique same for arpeggios?
You're very welcome!
It is essentially the same concepts that are used for arpeggios but there are slight differences. Check out my video "A Better Way To Practice Arpeggios" parts 1 & 2. I cover how to apply these technical concepts to arpeggio playing.
Thanks for the support!
Thanks for information 👍
You didn't show the right-hand downward scale technique...please will you post that 👍
I agree the whole “move the arm sideways” thing is so important. But I found it hard to make myself do it consistently. The mental image that worked for me was “the forearm is leading and is pulling the fingers along behind it, like a frisky dog on a leash”. Probably not what really happens but it fooled my hands into doing the right thing and I could remember to do it.
No matter what you call it, the forearm leads the hand.
Nice video ! Thank you for detailed technics showing. What about moving backwards and arpeggios playing?
Thank you so much!
Glad it helped!
Does this method work for arpeggios as well?
very good video, I get the idea about this technic, but I am unable, to do it without a "step" each time I use the thumb. Regards!
With me, it got easier with more practice.
I love practicing contrary motion in c!!!! Modes....
Thank you for your clear content! I really appreciate it. I pray for your happiness in your life! 🌻
Thank you! You too!
Chopin said B major first in parallel motion. C major was last of all. Horowitz said the hardest thing at the piano is the C major scale.
@rogercarroll I agree on all accounts. I wrote my comment then I saw yours. Big like on that.
Nice video, gave you a like. Chopin thought B Major was the easiest scale for fingering as it matches the shape of the fingers. I agree.
When I play B Major, I use the same fingering as I use in C Major (in fact for any scale):
Right hand, Wrist displacement in arrows:
. . . .. ....> ..... . . . . >
CMaj: 1C 2D 3E cross under 1F 2G 3A 4B 5C'
. . . .. .. .....> .... . . . . . . >
BMaj: 1B 2C# 3D# cross under 1E 2F# 3G# 4A# 5B'
I try to play ALL scales with the same finger pattern as it helps me retain interval feel/muscle memory.
Example: One of the oddest is FMajor.
^------------------------.
. .
. v
. . . . . ..> ... . . . . . . >
FMaj: 1F 2G 3A cross under 1Bb 2C 3D 4E 5F'
Rather than playing the Bb with the 4 (ring) finger, I play it with the 1 (thumb). To do this, I not only move my wrist from F to A, but also slide my fingers toward the piano as I approach the Bb so the thumb can cross under smoothly, then slide my fingers back toward me as I approach the octave F'. This gives the EXACT fingering in All Major/minor scale/key. I get very smooth articulation anywhere from staccato...legato...arpeggio. Whatever I need.
Thankyou so much for this new concept. had only read about it but now I see it. I have been learning the Thumb under for last 6 years and play scales quite fast but there used to be issue with the thumb under and I used to feel a kind of break when thumb moved from C to F under the C maj ascending scale. Hopefully this will correct that gap. Also I would like to know and look at a slow motion video of how to extend this technique to 2 or more octaves in both ascending and descending especially in scales like Ab maj and Eb maj and Eb min/F# maj . Thanks a ton in advance
Wow, I've watched your playlist and see really big steps in production from the 1st and the last part...: in first part there was just one camera with not the best quality but now I can see recording on several cameras, where the picture is made really good, for example coloring is really nice: soft and relaxing!
I hope you won't stop to do vids:)
P S also sound quality became better!!
Like the term or not, thumb tucking is exactly what it is.
Use whatever term one wants, the point is to not exaggerate the movement too far under, to the point where that big thumb muscle tightens, which happens often if not careful about it, tends to cause the wrist to twist. "Thumb pass under?" It becomes second nature.
Looking for suggestions on playing a 4 note mordant (d,cd,c) smoothly without tension in Bach’s
Menuet en Rondeau
I get it 60 % of the time but as I approach this section I tense😞
What about the wrist rolls over and under?
Hi, I can't figure out which ammount of articulation You put in each finger stroke. Nothing? Just a Little bit?
I tried this rotation and it minimises indeed the energy needed than only doing cross under. I have a question, because this rotation is a bit different than what my piano teacher showed me. He said i had to place a quarter or an eraser on the top of my hand while practicing he scales to avoid too much movements of the hands. What is your advice on this?
Like the question.
Although I’m no pro, but I would say that’s what most piano teachers teach
And that why so many students struggle with fast scales
Curious to know why you rotate outwards on fingers 2,3,4 and then inward on the thumb. This results in the thumb moving away from the key it’s aiming for and creates the need for a change of rotation at the exact instant of maximum difficulty (3-1 and 4-1 transitions).
Why don’t you rotate inwards on 2,3,4 AND 1 and then reset / reverse the rotation on the following finger 2? That feels much smoother to me.
I'm not the teacher; it gets my thumb closer. Still won't substitute for forearm lateral movement.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks!
I saw one really good teacher represent a small school saying that thumb under is not necessary at all if fast enough lateral forearm shifting and good rotation. I find that is misleading or at least really challenging-moving the forearm that fast at speed. It can be done, I would imagine. Seems like some direction for the thumb is needed, maybe not big under. I'm not that good, at least yet.