SCALES - New Tips For Speed, Evenness, & Reducing Tension

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 96

  • @mabdub
    @mabdub ปีที่แล้ว +87

    Not everybody can become a virtuoso but your tips help everybody to become a better pianist with more confidence. In the end your tips help people experience a greater sense of joy at making music. The kindness of your sharinging is much appreciated. Thank you.

    • @joshwrightpiano
      @joshwrightpiano  ปีที่แล้ว +12

      That is so kind of you. Thank you for your years of support and friendship Chuck.

    • @EnzoVaz-je9tp
      @EnzoVaz-je9tp 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Anyone can become a virtuoso. The thing is, most people don't have the guts to practice enough to get to that level

    • @mabdub
      @mabdub 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@EnzoVaz-je9tp Sadly, I disagree; one must possess specific traits related to eye, hand, coordination and naturally fast reflexes or no amount of practice will ever turn a person into a virtuoso. However, astute methods of fine tuning one's abilities can go a long way to producing an enjoyable sound and experience while playing the piano. No matter how well one plays there is always room for improvement; even if the increment is small it is significant in the pursuit of excellence.

    • @stevowilliams8279
      @stevowilliams8279 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@mabdub "specific traits related to eye, hand, coordination and naturally fast reflexes" I think naturally is the wrong word here. The evidence really just points towards virtuosity resulting from 'nurture' instead of 'nature' i.e. strict, efficient and long amounts of practice at an incredibly young age. The piano isn't an Olympic sport, its not like you're predetermined at birth to be a great pianist or not. Also while there have been 'virtuosos' throughout history who certainly have had an advantage that they were seemingly born with and have not had to practice as much as a result, I think that "no amount of practice will ever turn a person into a virtuoso" is demonstrably false. If you take any person and put them at the piano for the amount of time Liszt was at the piano, starting at a young enough age, you will get a virtuoso.

  • @joshdimercurio2452
    @joshdimercurio2452 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I finished your video, sat down, and tried the techniques for two minutes. I then tried to play my G scale again. This morning I could barely fumble out 120bpm. I just did 152 bpm with laughable ease, AND I AM SO ECSTATIC; such an Aha moment!!
    p.s. I did send you an email last week, but it was nothing urgent! If you did not receive it though, I can resend it :)

  • @christopherzimmer
    @christopherzimmer ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Josh, this video might be your “Mona Lisa” of piano instruction! First, the humble and honest way that you reveal your challenges brings you enormous credibility and makes people really want to listen and learn. Second, the way that you weave in layers of psychology and biomechanics gives so much practical depth to what others might view as a “how to” video. In short: wow, and great job! 😊

  • @TracingFlares
    @TracingFlares ปีที่แล้ว +5

    let me take a breath and hit the replay button... this is huge. Thank you😊

  • @ericai394
    @ericai394 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    "soft hands" "no bones in the hands"; have patience, do not drill the scale too repeatedly
    3:44 activate fingers: *slight* pulling motion, do not overdo. Finger curls should be natural and not forced
    5:51 *slightly* activate the scale using the arm, do not twist the hand too much
    7:15 Arms: in and out motion
    9:23 hands: open and close, repoen
    10:18 one motion, not 123
    10:50 thumb tuck: think "flow", should not be any tension
    15:18 introduce a *slight* doorknob rotation. should not overdo it
    17:57 flicking motion when crossing once up to speed (not as much on some black keys)

  • @odmusicman
    @odmusicman ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Josh my biggest take away from your lessons have been learning to relax. Relax posture, shoulders, arms, wrists, fingers. I did a lot of classical in early days then did rock/jazz for many years so the tendency of muscle memory to "slam down" on keys has been a mental journey of reversals and you have accelerated those efforts. A big sincere thank you. Joe O'Donnell

  • @vergauwenmartial
    @vergauwenmartial ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Thank you for those advises. I'm learning a Clementi sonatine right now with c major scales and my teacher just tell me "perfect, now faster". And this is when I get tension and my hands, wrist and forearm get rigid. I think a teacher shouldn't tell his student to go faster but rather show him how he can get faster. Your technical advices are precious.

  • @TatianaGolovina-mu7sz
    @TatianaGolovina-mu7sz วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thank you Josh for your way of introducing these high class technics in such a sincere way. You inspire and encourage by the way you tell about your journey and struggles - I would never imagine someone like your level pianist might go through after all your experience! It makes me feel a bit better about my humble efforts and ups/downs.:)) and go back to the piano as consistently as possible…

  • @nebbykoo
    @nebbykoo 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Wow! I'm so happy that this level of analysis is taking place. It helps me understand why my performance problems exist.

  • @PhilipGarciaReacts
    @PhilipGarciaReacts ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Love the tip about the importance of finding the right trigger and catalyst words that cause us to react: flow, take, pillow fingers! Thank your always Josh!

  • @luvkayakn
    @luvkayakn 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I’m slowly rebuilding my piano skills after a nearly 40 year break from serious practicing, and have struggled with speed of any real temp above 100. Hence, I’m focusing on scales, arpeggios and chords. This is a fantastic tip and I can’t wait to try it.

  • @BEZONANCE
    @BEZONANCE ปีที่แล้ว +5

    this video was super helpful in achieving even and faster scales! literally 3 days of practicing this technique and the results surprised me so much! thank you Josh

  • @chrisvalverde8288
    @chrisvalverde8288 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's not 3 moves. It's 1 move. Brilliant 👏. That alone helped me so much!! Thank you sir 😊

  • @mariacristinatangorra1678
    @mariacristinatangorra1678 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    wow, mister Whrigt, you show me things no teacher ever told me before! I came back playing piano three years ago, after have played it since I was 6 until 16 years old. At that time thay tortured me with Clementi sonatas, which I much later found out beiing just beautyful, but lessons then were sooo boring for a teenager, while sun was shining outside of my room in Rome! Today, thanks to you and other great people on youtube I got rid of bad positions and habits they tought me - or just not put right - when I was young and I'm improuving every day a little more, with no fear and no tension.God bless you.

  • @davidpickell4227
    @davidpickell4227 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I really like the intensity, tempo, and truth of how you share your engagement with the instrument!

  • @ST52655
    @ST52655 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I’m glad I found this video. I need to rebuild. In spite of being an accomplished pianist, I need to work on velocity.

  • @bradsims5116
    @bradsims5116 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I play guitar and you have been such a good teacher. Very thankful, for your focus. Your awesome josh !

  • @thegreenpianist7683
    @thegreenpianist7683 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This exactly what I need at this moment, a rebuild like you said. I can relate to what you said about losing your way with scales.
    This will be so helpful with that. Thank you for the wonderful videos as always!

  • @jmc6326
    @jmc6326 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Josh, thank you so much! Taking from the keys and the thumb adjustment were an unlock for me. My scales are flying!

  • @drintro
    @drintro ปีที่แล้ว +4

    After having been taught at an early age to "strike the keys", I'm still (at age 59) unlearning that reflex motion in my right hand that essentially caused some focal dystonia. This video appeared at just the right time today. I have to reiterate the caution against over drilling and instead taking a step back and analyzing where you're actually blocked.

  • @gretareinarsson7461
    @gretareinarsson7461 หลายเดือนก่อน

    To add to this. The smoother and relaxed the hand it the more easy it is to play scales musically. And that should be always be the main thing to do. I find it also good to thing of “end-point” or “direction”.

  • @isabellet4374
    @isabellet4374 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Cette vidéo est extrêmement utile. J'apprécie beaucoup votre simplicité et votre sincérité à un tel niveau de compétence. Votre analyse des difficultés techniques est toujours très bénéfique.

  • @Bsharp88
    @Bsharp88 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great advice and insights Josh. Super useful! How about advice on scales towards the body?

  • @cassiusrwebangira2021
    @cassiusrwebangira2021 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks. I have found help today. Can you please provide us with a music sheet for these exercises with fingering. At some times I find that you are too fast for me to mark your nice fingering

  • @Marthalingification
    @Marthalingification ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Josh, this exercise makes it very clear that my left hand gets stuck in the higher registers. Your exercises are great! Thanks for clarifying!

  • @AKitchell
    @AKitchell 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    @joshwrightpiano Do you have tips on how to make practicing scales fun? They're so frustrating to me that I feel like smashing my fingers in rage 🤬. I wouldn't even bother beyond the basics if getting them all fast wasn't a hard requirement for me to start studying piano composition at Snow College. I'm starting to consider dropping out entirely and looking elsewhere for composition tips, which I don't want to do. So outside of these tips, do you have any ideas that would make practicing these scales actually fun?
    Not more bearable; _actually fun!_
    Thanks in advance.

  • @bex_lynne
    @bex_lynne ปีที่แล้ว

    You inspire me to play more seriously again, and give me great ideas to pass along to my students. Thank you!!

  • @scottjoyce100
    @scottjoyce100 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is a great video! I'm experimenting with all of this and finding my thumb note is usually louder. I was running through your new ideas on this and I stumbled upon something that seems to be working and I hope it's not hurting anything for me physically or any other way... I don't actually play the thumb note.. I just place my thumb on it but don't press it. Then I do play it but very quietly. Then I play normally and I think it's smoothing me out! I notice I have more tension when I cross 4 over 1 (descending, right hand). Still working on that. And my special word is "draw" as in draw the music out of the piano. That works better than pull or drag! Ha! Thank you for all these great ideas.

  • @brooklynfriesen2778
    @brooklynfriesen2778 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Dude questioning his credibility because some days he can’t perfectly spit out a scale at 220😂what a beast! This video inspires me to get past 120 at some point👏💪😅

  • @francescamonte3187
    @francescamonte3187 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are a wonderful teacher and your journey to excellence makes you a wonderful person.Thank you for taking the time to teach and share.

  • @tremont59
    @tremont59 ปีที่แล้ว

    Josh, you are a legend. I really appreciate all your advice and how brilliantly and humbly you pass on your skills and knowledge.

  • @bunnyhollowcrafts
    @bunnyhollowcrafts ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is incredible! Your advice is just so on point! The counting 1-8 and “open”, is going help me tackle this! Thank you!!!!

  • @berkayopoz8898
    @berkayopoz8898 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    thanks a lot

  • @mitchnew3037
    @mitchnew3037 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love this video, it helps a lot. Thanks so much 😊❤

  • @gervasiomontenegro569
    @gervasiomontenegro569 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very useful video. Left hand descending scales are a nightmare for me...
    I wish you a great 2023!

  • @aarontaylor8574
    @aarontaylor8574 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks Josh, greatly appreciate your videos!!!

  • @vml_tec
    @vml_tec ปีที่แล้ว

    Just watch this vidoe days back but didn't really took it serious then i realise i watch somebody video related to speedy scale then i search and watch for second time, I haven't try yet but will try it this technique from now. Thanks worth watching 🙏 ❤

  • @debrac2023
    @debrac2023 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you! I can't wait to try out this in my practice. You're right about finding the right catalyst. Ever since I saw your TH-cam on thinking of the chromatic scales as a conveyor belt, they really improved!

  • @multiSamP23
    @multiSamP23 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks Josh, really helpful. I'm struggling getting the Mozart variations on Ah, vous dirai-je Maman up to speed, variation 12 in particular, and I suspected my scale work was not too good.

  • @cookie4u2
    @cookie4u2 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    @joshwrightpiano Could you do a video on a complete warm up practice for advanced students/professionals? Including scales, technique, exercises etc? How to build momentum each day?

  • @benallred4959
    @benallred4959 ปีที่แล้ว

    This technique has helped me a lot with my scales, thank you! One of the most difficult things for me is independence of the 4th and 5th finger- especially in scales. Do you have any videos about this?

  • @catherineofsweden24
    @catherineofsweden24 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is amazing!!! 🥹

  • @RadfordPiano
    @RadfordPiano ปีที่แล้ว

    I like this very much and found it helpful and works well one hand at a time, or hand together in contrary motion when the thumbs cross over or under at the same time. However, the only part missing is step 5 on how to play hands together in parallel motion with the thumbs cross over and under at different times. Could you do a video on that piece or clarify on how to put that piece together with this technique?

  • @mariamoroz7776
    @mariamoroz7776 ปีที่แล้ว

    ❤❤❤Thank You,Josh!!!

  • @jafarshadiq9321
    @jafarshadiq9321 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Josh thank you so much for the video this really change my technique on my descending left hand, but can you make a in depth video about ascending on the left hand ? Thanks

  • @wolfie8748
    @wolfie8748 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    flow under not thumb under really helpes me. it is just different wording but it really helps haha

  • @bobbygadourymusic5476
    @bobbygadourymusic5476 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video, Josh! Thank you!

  • @radisliernter_3377
    @radisliernter_3377 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you! This helped me a lot!

  • @roanmccormick7923
    @roanmccormick7923 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great lesson!!!

  • @LuluBodhi
    @LuluBodhi ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you so much. You are always very helpful and inspiring!

  • @mcognito1264
    @mcognito1264 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wonderful video! Thank you so much! Can't wait to try.

  • @20thcenturytunes
    @20thcenturytunes ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Josh, thank you for this video, Hanon exercises might hav eot come out again...lol I'm still plugging away at Beethoven Pathetique Mvt 1 - - cheers

  • @ronchiles399
    @ronchiles399 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Josh, your hands are so quick, on the 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4 I'm try to see the fingers you're using on the 1-4. Maybe can you post the notes-fingers chart? I'm obviously not as accomplished but trying. Thank you so much!

    • @joshwrightpiano
      @joshwrightpiano  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I’m just using standard fingering for C major. 123 on CBA then 1234 on GFED

  • @lovepiano4616
    @lovepiano4616 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. My right hand seems always faster than left hand when playing scales fast. Any suggestions on playing two hands the same speed? Thank you.

  • @juanmanueltellechea4981
    @juanmanueltellechea4981 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Super useful! Already playing faster :) thx 🙏

  • @mikegarcia4927
    @mikegarcia4927 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wonderful !! Thanks a lot !! 🙏

  • @casimirliberski
    @casimirliberski ปีที่แล้ว

    You are amazing man. Your videos really help me a lot 🙏 thank you

  • @raleedy
    @raleedy ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice seeing your wingtips!

  • @jcrichfield24
    @jcrichfield24 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is good

  • @tammobrinner4823
    @tammobrinner4823 ปีที่แล้ว

    What would you recommend how much time one should one spend on the different steps? I know its quite dependent on the person, but maybe you can give me a rough estimate?

  • @etudeando
    @etudeando ปีที่แล้ว

    For me as a preparatory exercise Hanon "thumb under third and fourth" then Czerny Opus 849 Etude de mecanisme number 8 and 9 will cover most of Escales fixes. Not all of them but is a good piece

  • @SB-ky5rh
    @SB-ky5rh ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Many thanks for this. Do you have any suggestions for staccato scales? I'm struggling to obtain 88 (4 notes to click) on staccato. I think that I'm using too much finger and not enough wrist so that after a couple of octaves I can really feel the tension building up, especially when working away from the body (ascending rh, descending LH).

    • @joshwrightpiano
      @joshwrightpiano  ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s actually probably too MUCH wrist if you’re getting tension at those speeds. You could apply all of the advice from this video with a quicker release. Having said that, staccato is only evident/really clear up to a certain speed. Beyond certain speeds, a staccato scale just sounds like a very precise and pearly legato scale (I talk about this in my very old video called “Pearly sound”)

  • @Davideberti
    @Davideberti ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi! what advice would you give for the left hand in the ascending sense?

  • @Hollycb12
    @Hollycb12 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    what about the other direction? Did you focus on this particular direction per hand because the other direction seems to be slightly easier?

  • @Vasioth
    @Vasioth ปีที่แล้ว

    Is this pulling motion the same on the descent in the right hand and the ascent in the left hand, or are we going towards the fallboard of the piano rather than away from it? Noticed in your example both hands were shown starting from the thumbs so just want to clarify this.

  • @johntichenor1601
    @johntichenor1601 ปีที่แล้ว

    In part 1 when playing the impulse Im having trouble getting my ring finger on left hand to take the key any tips?

  • @HanSolo787
    @HanSolo787 ปีที่แล้ว

    How does this work in conjunction with the Pier Note Method in your other videos?

  • @stephanjwilliams
    @stephanjwilliams ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for this video, Josh! I haven't finished watching it yet, but I skipped to where you played the scale up to 220 bpm. I'm curious to know, since I am recommitting myself to practicing scales daily, what would be a reasonable goal for scales in double thirds, in terms of bpm? What about octaves? Or I suppose a better question would be, what is your bpm limit for scales in double notes? I consider myself an advanced pianist, but I still have a lot of things to work on. My current goal for regular scales (which I hope to reach in about a year) is 180, with four notes per click. But I have also begun practicing scales in double notes (particularly thirds and octaves) and I have set a tentative goal of 112 for scales in thirds and 120 for scales in octaves.

  • @chrisy367
    @chrisy367 ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing! Thank you :)

  • @collinm.4652
    @collinm.4652 ปีที่แล้ว

    Will u ever upload a video covering rach 3 and some practice tips concerning the accuracy needed in the 3rd movement (or the whole concerto for that matter lol). Ive seen You’ve played it on your channel (beautifully btw) but I’ve never actually seen u use a passage from rach 3 as an example when applying practice methods covered in these types of videos.

    • @joshwrightpiano
      @joshwrightpiano  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I regret not doing the tutorials when I had it in my fingers. When I relearn it I will do tutorials on each movement

    • @collinm.4652
      @collinm.4652 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@joshwrightpiano sounds good!

  • @andrewgibson4132
    @andrewgibson4132 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I have a question is this concept of 123 1234 for all scales

  • @Un1234l
    @Un1234l 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "Take, open" is what I've independently found works best.
    It's due to it being biomechanically efficient, according to our anatomy. Stay in our natural rest position, as well as moving the muscles in our body optimally, the way they were designed to: muscles pull. The forearm flexor muscles pull the fingers toward the forearm (take). The forearm extensor muscles pull the fingers toward the forearm in the opposite direction (open).
    By actually allowing and consciously controlling the muscles to do what they were literally designed to do, you cut away the BS and go back to the true foundation and fundamentals of human movement. Hence the improved ease of playing, lack of tension, and consequently, improved technique.
    Biomechanics and kinesiology applied to piano playing.

  • @iXNomad
    @iXNomad ปีที่แล้ว +3

    When you really reached the "far beyond advanced" and "far beyond expert" level on piano, it's getting really hard to make this final step to mastery. Seems like you know everything but it's not enough, you just can't bring everything together to make it all work stably. You have to apply all your knowledge and skills that you've learned for these many years (everything about music + your technique), but also you have to master your thought process, master your brain discipline, master your stamina and concentration. And practise really a lot, 4-5 hours a day at least. Without these things you actually have no chance to play such pieces as
    Beethoven's Sonata 29
    Chopin's Etudes 1, 2, 18, 23
    Schumann's Carnaval
    Liszt's La Campanella
    Liszt's Spanish Rhapsody
    Albeniz' Triana
    Rachmaninoff's Sonata 1
    Prokofiev's Sonata 8
    at the high level. Just forget. ZERO chance.
    I'm learning Triana right now. This is the hardest thing I've ever tried to play. It makes you feel like you're a beginner. Like you're studying again at music school and your teacher gave you a piece that is two heads above your skills. E.g. Chopin's Ballade 4 when you're 14 years old and the last and the most difficult thing you've ever learned is Fantasie-Impromptu or etudes no.13/14.
    My current level:
    Etude no.18 I somehow trained, no.23 still haven't finished. Need more time.
    Such things like etudes 12, 13, 24, maybe 8 (it was harder for me), Ballades 3/4, Scherzos 2/3, Liszt's etude 10, Rhapsodies no.6 and no.12, Albeniz' Asturias, Rachmaninoff's preludes(3-2, 23-5, 23-7, 32-8, 32-12), etudes (all op.33 are easy, I also played 39-3 (it takes time for me, pretty hard) and 39-9), and musical moments (so far 16-1) go without HUGE problems - I can play them at a decent level. Not "International competition", of course, but a couple steps lower.
    Still have some problems with stability and concentration.

  • @Mondelfe
    @Mondelfe ปีที่แล้ว

    Is this all advice that can be applied within a piece? I'm playing Rachmaninov Moment Musical No.4 right now and I'm having trouble getting the downward run fast enough. I had relaxed my fingers, but then was too slow. Then I tried curling them more to reduce the spacing between notes. This made me faster, but I had so much tension in my hand that I could hardly play half a page, because then my left hand burned like fire.
    I haven't found a solution yet and now I'm wondering if these exercises are also applicable for chromatic runs like in this piece.

    • @joshwrightpiano
      @joshwrightpiano  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yes. If there is ever an exercise that should REMAIN just an exercise, I will always clarify (there are a few instances, like the “press release” exercise video where this exercise teaches you a concept but can only be done in slow tempi, thus being necessary to remain an exercise). You can apply the advice from this video to chromatic scales, especially if you’re utilizing the fingering that uses 4. However, if you’re using basic chromatic scale fingering, check out my video called Chromatic Scales Conveyor Belt Analogy. You may find that more helpful for what you’re dealing with in the Rachmaninoff

    • @Mondelfe
      @Mondelfe ปีที่แล้ว

      @@joshwrightpiano Then I'll give that a try and additionally watch the other video! Thanks for your many helpful videos!! 😃

  • @Alwpiano
    @Alwpiano ปีที่แล้ว

    Conversely, I like the left hand descent better than ascent. Personally, I can do 4 to the beat at 125. I can't imagine going 180 yet.

  • @afxmnstr
    @afxmnstr 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Idk man, i think you just got to a skill level that it takes trigger words to get better at this point.

  • @LawrenceSolon
    @LawrenceSolon ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I was really distracted by why you were wearing shoes from two different pairs until I realised it was just because one of them was in the light and the other was in shadow. I don't think I'm smart enough to be good at the piano... But fo' real, love your lessons, subscribed years ago.

  • @doublenickel1000
    @doublenickel1000 ปีที่แล้ว

    Gotta try this. I've been dreaming of doing 144! (Was it Woody Allen who talked about having "delusions of adequacy"? 🙂

  • @steliosdimitriadis
    @steliosdimitriadis ปีที่แล้ว

    Some call this open-take movement as the "drawer". Right?

  • @jakklovediablo6293
    @jakklovediablo6293 ปีที่แล้ว

    I dont usually comment cause my english suck 😂
    but like subscribe comment keep the channel going
    And also video is help me alot👍

  • @antjamnow1286
    @antjamnow1286 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The "taking" of the keys, or pulling, stops at half of the white key base - something to notice.

  • @nikkiho
    @nikkiho 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Please type a little slower so I can see how your hand move. Thanks

  • @Mickferndalespeedy
    @Mickferndalespeedy 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Too much waffling not enough teaching so I left