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Jealousy, inadequacy and comparison in the language community | Chatting with Valeria
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2024
- Is it ever ok to be jealous of someone's language skills? What about when you feel inadequate or feel like you're not as good as anyone else? Is it alright to compare yourself to others if you use it as a form of motivation? Valeria and I discuss these things in today's video. I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments!
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:00 TH-camr pressure
02:00 Online language community
02:18 She used to hate me lol
03:47 Interacting with the community
05:04 Comparison and humility
06:29 Female representation
07:12 All communities have jealousy
08:51 Perfectionism & comparison in languages
10:51 Positive comparison
11:30 You don't see the hard work of others
12:27 Perfectionism affecting speaking
13:52 Judgement that won't come
14:28 Fearlessness
15:18 Beginners have it easier?
16:00 Underrepresenting your level
16:18 End
Sorry for the abrupt end; our cameras died oops
Valeria's channel / valeriatiourina
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Welcome to my channel! My name is Lindie and I share my love for languages and design on this channel. I'm a senior product designer and co-founder of Kaards.io. I also write blog posts about languages at lindiebotes.com, and mentor language learners, and offer UX consulting for language apps at superpeer.com/lindiebotes. I'm a Christian and strive to shine God’s light in all I do. May this channel inspire you to reach your language goals and learn more about design.
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The ‘maybe I’m not intermediate, maybe I’m still a beginner’ feels are real
Literally me😭 or the “girl your not really polyglot your not good at those languages enough”(I speak 4), I’m starting to learn Japanese and sometimes ( most of the time 🙃) I go like “ Gurl you’re wasting your time, it’s a difficult language, you’ll probably fail” 😭😭
I was like that about my English, I kept thinking I am intermediate, but then I tried some test online (not official payed one) to check my level and it told me I am advanced, that was the best compliment ever.
It can be such a hard thing to quantify for sure. You can be great at written and grammar type stuff and score like a B2, but then in a real, normal conversation you completely flop, and bomb. Real conversations introduce a dynamic, real-time pressure that in and of itself is a skill to navigate. So many factors that go into language level.
MEEE
true.🥺
It's a bit of a cliché but you really need to compare yourself to how you were before, rather than to other people. There are so many factors like how much free time people have, what age they started, if they grew up bilingual, access to expensive private lessons, whether they could live in many countries, etc. So there's no point in comparing yourself to others. Just relax and enjoy the learning process!
Definitely! And I think people need to really judge how they are feeling, and limit their exposure if they find comparisons are unhelpful. I find it massively motivating and really positive, I guess because I know that only my hard work can produce results and that no one else’s level has anything to do with me. I tend to watch and really be happy for people for their progress :D
Couldn't have said it any better myself, "Just relax and enjoy the learning process!"
So true !!!
I’ve been studying multiple languages for fun on and off since I was a kid. I’ve noticed my pronunciation is pretty good when it comes to the languages I started with as a child, but with the ones that I started with later in life, I just can’t get the pronunciation down. I’ve never gotten to fluency in any of them because of how often I’ve language hopped, but I’m now starting a more focused approach so that I can become fluent in Spanish (the first language I’ve ever studied as a child). And after I’m satisfied with my fluency level Spanish, I’m going to work on Mandarin until I become satisfied with it (probably for the rest of my life). Those are the two languages where I have a near native accent but I’m not satisfied with my conversational abilities. I’ve always been the most strict with myself when it comes to pronunciation because I feel that without correct pronunciation, I won’t be very well understood even if I’m otherwise fluent. And I don’t like to sound American when I’m not speaking English.
Improve for yourself....what others people have archieved is not important..Passion for languages is the most important thing . ..In my view Intelligent people are not envious but they always want to improve themself...and never compare to other people ...As far as I am concerned I usually enjoy learning languages and I admire people that know more than me .....
_I learned [insert language here] in [insert number here] days_ trend needs to stop! I'm sick of TH-camrs using this click bait and seeing newbies and naive people falling for it, they damage the image of what is the true process of learning a language.
Say it louder for the TH-camrz in the backkk! Lol. I mean these people just want views and I could do the same and put clickbait titles and get a ton more views, but I think it's way more important to share the process, mistakes and struggles.
@@LindieBotes you don't know how bad I wanted it to say it 😁. In fact you're an inspiration to me because since you have a full time job non related to language learning, I feel more confident juggling between my job, going to college (again) and language learning.
Its not that unrealistic to learn a language like Spanish or Portuguese to a broken level in 30 days if you study 6 hours daily for a person who is familiar with lanagauge learning. I see no problem with that. Also its about the Intelligence of a individual. people are so afraid to tell the other people that not everyone has the same level of intelligence.
Also ive seen that in western culture people are so apologetic when it comes to considering oneself intelligent
I think the other reason why beginning language learners are the most confident is that they can actively gauge how much they've learned. They started off knowing nothing and now they can introduce themselves and their families. There's this false sense that language learning is not hard. Intermediate learners are no longer disillusioned. They discover that the language is much more complicated than they first thought. That;s when the feelings of insecurity and imposterhood kick in.
especially when you dont study it for a day or two and pretty simple words like cupboard or bell just escapes from your memory and you feel like you lost it.
Spot on. Thank you for this comment
SO TRUE :(
Exactly
This is so true. I fell for this illusion because I'm learning my second language for the first time and actually commiting to it. I learned so much in the first month and I thought "Oh wow this is actually not hard at all". I feel like now I'm lost and I don't know where to go next so I get discouraged for that reason.
I must give Valeria 5 starts for honesty and being in contact with herself. Most people would deny their true feelings, especially if those feelings aren't exactly admirable. But this was an honest conversation.
Blessings from South Africa
Exactly. It is only when you acknowledge your negative feelings, that you can do something about them
Yes. It takes a lot of honestly and courage to confront that and admit it out loud.
I never thought there could be drama in the lenguage learning community xD I'm waiting for this vid
Such thing to be in language learning is funny to me . A friendly concept to consist of these things is absurd. It’s like being in a book reading club and witnessing conflict about who should read what chapter,what character they should read and how they should read.
Regardless, if it’s something serious then it should be addressed.
LOL Spaghetti Banana out here spilling the tea xD
you would not believe just how much drama is in every community you think wouldn’t have any. mukbang, booktubers, films, science, etc. any niche that grows into a fair sized amount of people will inevitably have those few bad apples that muck it up for everyone
@@maotse1709 🤣🤣🤣
Spaghetti Banana great, you ruined my naivety. It’s a shame this is happening. Worst thing, this hasn’t even reached boiling point, once there is enough exposure all will come to shh**
All good things must come to an end or lose purity
I struggle with jealousy when people are able to learn faster than me. I need to work on that
mr.sushi22 you’re not alone!
I have been learning Spanish since Jan 1, 2020 or 6 months.
My Spanish level is 50% or intermediate level.
But I won’t give up until I reach 80%-100% or advanced level by end year of 2020!
For me, it seems to go through the same few steps:
1. Anguished with negative emotions and jealousy
2. Ignoring the cause of it with an excuse that I validate myself over (e.g. But im better at this, but they made a mistake here) OR IF I CANT 2. Lose interest in the hobby
3. Pick up a new hobby and keep this hobby and a side thing and not something i pride myself on...
I don't think its very healthy for me to do that... want to hear your thoughts.
@@warricklow4218 I've been through similar struggles. I just try to keep my head down and block all the noise. You'll move a lot faster if you aren't paying attention to "how you compare to others".
@@kavinxavier4552 yea, I would say that social media is a root cause of it cause in real life even if I see people like this, once I talk to them, I bond with them and I feel like we are doing it together instead of competing and that I can learn from him more than that I'm worse than him
mr.sushi22
I know your Feelings. But you don't need to. Your first foreign language takes many years. Because you don't know how to learn it.
Plus even though he/she got fluent in just one year, those people have lots of small mistakes. I believe you can't get fluent in a short term.
I heard in a Psychology podcast that envy comes from the feeling of being incapable to achieve something someone else did. So it has to do more with the fact that we sell ourselves short that the capability itself.
In my personal opinion, competition in the language learning community is completely catastrophic for the community itself. It takes away all the fun and all the effectiveness of language learning. Learning a language out of jealousy or resenting more skilled people in the field is the worst way to be in the community. This statement actually applies to almost every community about personal skills, like losing weight/taking care of one's appearance, learning an instrument etc. It's natural to compare oneself with others, but being inspired by these people rather than trying to beat them is the healthiest and less mentally challenging thing to do. Great video!!! :)
For me is like a motivation to improve so for me is not really a problem
Recently saw a video on this exact subject, and remembered just how self absorbed some members of the community are, not giving actual advice and only using their linguistics skills to show off.
I shared your name as an example of someone who doesn't downplay their talent, but someone who is still humble and helpful to everyone else.
@SKe- FuckingDaddle Yes, I get that impression from them. He doesn't give helpful advice, just flexes his 'language skills'
Ikenna speaks broken Japanese. It doesn't sound even showing off to me lol
Also, I agree with the “level” of language issue. When I was practicing my English on online chats, to international people my English was good, advanced even. To British people my English was elementary level or horrible due to pronunciation & American writing system. To Russian speakers, my English was completely wrong because the English they are taught at school is from 19th century English. Russians are generally strict with grammar and never speak unless they are completely perfect with English.
My native language is Russian and my family member constantly correct me and tell me that I don’t speak like a Russian. I was born in Finland so naturally I had to learn Finnish and my Finnish is good at conversational level but for my Finnish friends say my Finnish is kindergarten level. Despite all these comments, I can easily communicate with people, I’ve managed to study in the UK and now I’m studying in a Finnish university.
Language isn’t just a book, language isn’t just a pen, language is a living thing that is constantly changing, transforming and evolving. It’s a tool of communication that binds people together.
How can your Finnish be at a kindergarten level if you grew up there and went to university there? It sounds like people are trying to tell you that you have no native language. They seem to be mirroring you inaccurately and minimizing your language ability. They are not your friends.
Also, your English is clearly advanced. I don't see how the British writing system is different enough from the American for the American to be called "horrible." Don't they just add u's to things like 'humour?'
@@b.k.701 You’re absolutely right, my Finnish friends are actually brilliant at their native language, better than an average Finnish person so it makes sense they compare my ability to their level, which is way above average. After all these years I’ve realised that I was surrounded by talented people and that’s why I felt inadequate but I’m actually pretty decent. Some people just like to take pride in or gate keep their language abilities to the point they undermine, scorn, shame or bully others who aren’t as talented, intentionally or unintentionally.
Also, thank you for your kind words! I appreciate them 💖🌸✨🌿
@@mayafoxwitch Honestly, I'm not sure it has anything to do with how brilliant they are at Finnish. If they feel the need to gate-keep and bully and harass, they're insecure. That's their emotional problem and has nothing to do with your talents, though I can only infer that these brilliant polyglots must be threatened by your language skills if they try to make you believe you're inadequate when it's clearly not true. Maybe there's a compliment in there somewhere. 💌🥀
You're most welcome! ❤️
I totally deal with the perfectionism thing too. I've always been 'that smart kid', so I always feel like I have to live up to that in some way.
Same, hence this year in school, I let somebody else take the title (not study as hard/don't answer much questions by teachers) as I try to diversify my knowledge and enjoy myself "self-care".
"I anticipate a judgment that won't come" I felt that
For myself, the feeling of inadequacy stems from having friends and family members doubt my ability in acquiring a foreign language on my own. I feel inspired by people who truly embody the language acquisition process, because it makes "fluency" feel more attainable. There are just days when the people around me knowingly or unknowingly just bring me down. Tracking my progress throughout this process has been a big help in my motivation and mental health. Here's to us ladies and our language acquisition goals! I'm excited to hear about your steps towards learning Tagalog, Lindie!
*members (not a possessive)
I’m so guilty of this. I’ve unsubscribed to language youtubers just because they were “better” than me in a target language, and it’s toxic and I hope we can stop doing that to each other lol
What i finally did was turn that resent, into motivation. "I want to be better than that person". Of course, if you watch me you know i'm not better at anyone in any language LOL. But try and turn it into motivation :D
I LOVED this video. I used to teach foreign languages in high school and I saw a lot of this, both when I was studying in college and in my students as well. I wished people discussed it more openly the way the two of you did. I definitely think there’s multiple angles to it:
1) online, you only see someone’s highlight reel, so it can feel like you can never measure up.
2) I think females in any community that may have felt traditionally male-dominated may feel more competitive with other females, especially if you come from a smaller setting like a class where one may be the only girl/woman there. I think it also makes one feel like mistakes are more costly.
3) I think in online communities, even when people are trying to help, it can be overwhelming. You may put out a question or a translation for correction and get hundreds of responses. I think it can sometimes feel like “wait, am I the only one who didn’t know this?”
4) putting yourself out there is difficult, period. And in language learning, especially in the spontaneous creation aspects of speaking and writing, that’s what you’re doing.
Like I said, I love that you did this video and had this honest conversation. I think we definitely need to support one another and remember everyone’s journey looks different. Thank you as always for the incredible content.
Lindie: knows 50,000s languages including the one I want to get better at, has a great job while still being younger than me. Me: trying to take the message of this video to heart and not be jealous.
I personally have never been envious of anybody's abilities per se, but I can understand the feeling of being upset when you see somebody surpass you. And it's not that I'm not willing to accept that somebody else might have put in more time than me or just naturally move faster than me, but in a good number of cases, I start feeling as though it's because whatever method I had previously been using must be inefficient, and I not only start feeling bad because I was "wasting my time" up until that point, but it also causes me to waste time and energy thinking about what I should be doing differently. Of course it can be good to step back and reconsider what you are doing, but in my experience it just leads to negligible incremental increases in efficiency, that weren't worth the time I could have spent just doing what I was doing before.
You just described my entire language learning journey.
You described exactly what Im going through right now with german. I feel that especially when I try to talk to natives and I cant understand what they're saying, even though I've been studying so hard for months :(
can't agree more!
Very excited for this topic! It’s something that I’ve been wondering about. There have been a few youtubers I’ve watched who have been very arrogant or indirectly put down those who are new learners. Social media portrays a “perfect image” of people when we know completely this is not true. Everyone makes mistakes and to be honest that’s what makes for fun stories and keeps people humble. I have had friends who learnt a couple of phrases of a language for a holiday and had an amazing time because of it. “Being just like a native” doesn’t have to be the goal every time, and that should be normalized! I have a few words of Irish that make my family so happy, and I want to tidy the language up but my goal isn’t to be “fluent like a native”. I have other languages that take priority and that’s okay! Direct comparison really destroys joy of your own progress but being inspired by others (like I have been by your channel) is a healthy thing.
I have a different idea. Basically languages is for surviving life.
When I trip to the US, I have to order in English at fast food restaurant's counter. There is a line. What native speakers need to me is speaking clearly, not quiet voice, not slowly. Just saying "a cheese burger please" is O.K.
But people who don't think about languages's meaning tend to think like "you can make mistakes"
Off course we can. They don't need to say it. Because it's obvious.
Those TH-camrs always think about how other leaners think of him. If you know languages meaning, you don't even think like "I can make mistakes. "
Why does he say so？ Because he tried speak his target language from day one. I assume some people were cold to him, and he did cheer himself up in his mind.
He doesn't enjoy learning process. And he is the one who wants to be like a native speaker. But he wants it without taking effort. He thinks learning languages is uncomfortable thing. If he really likes learning his target language, maybe he will think "I love something really hard to get." You can speak your target language from day one？ It's boring except in case you live in your target language's country.
this is a cool topic, I do see this stuff posted time to time, its not talked about nearly enough. Don't think I saw one to do with being envious/jealous- still love to hear u guys talk on it anyway
i sort of had the same experience, but i've realized the whole point of learning a language is communicating with people. if you can do that and develop relationships with people in a foreign language, you're doing great. you don't need to sound "exactly like a native speaker".
a lot of the polyglot channels are about showing off a finished product. they also have more advantages than someone learning their first language, because they already know the process.
agree 100%. Which languages do you speak?
@@GalaSalv i've learned mandarin and hindi, now been studying korean for about 3 months. the languages furthest from english interest me the most lol.
checked out your channel, btw. great advice
So true wtf, some people just overdo it too much, enjoy it and take it bit by bit👍
Who said you should speak like a native speaker？ Do not make a fictious person please. I've heard lots of people "I want to speak like a native speaker" But I've never heard of people saying "you should speak like a native speaker"
I watched her another video. Valeria said she is introvert person. She likes reading. Polyglots need time to learn foreign languages. You don't need to spend time with lots of people. I hope she will have relationship with really close friends. Because I assume it's much comfortable for her.
@@coconutpineapple2489 are you okay? i was talking about the idea people get in their heads that they need to speak perfectly, and get frustrated/take an ego hit when they make mistakes. i never said there was anyone who told me i need to sound exactly like a native speaker. and i actually did have a woman criticize my mandarin by saying that if she heard me speaking without seeing me, she would immediately know i'm an american because of my accent.
not sure why you feel the need to defend Valeria either, as i said i could relate to what she was saying.
One problem I noticed in the language community is that it seems to be made only for people who create content in English, all the big channels and people "collabing" are usually native English speakers or people who only make videos in English. I like creating content in Portuguese but I feel like I'm missing out on the community because of that.
I found a channel in French that teaches people English. It is neat to learn French in reverse.
Tem razão...me irrita um pouco porque não apenas quero assistir vídeos em inglês porque já é minha língua materna mas adoro assistir vídeos sobre o aprendizado de idiomas. Me inscrevi a seu canal
I completely agree with Valeria and I feel all the emotions she does. That's why i dont watch language youtubers, only youtubers that focus on other stuff but also showcase their language content. I think it stems from me being insecure and how good I am and how i compare with others, but seeing perfect people that seem to focus their lives around learning languages makes interested but not completely passionate learners like me feel not good about myself. Hence, I like to watch people that don't focus on language learning but know 4 to 6 languages and don't focus all their content around it because it seems much more attainable for someoe like me. But I do love these "poltiical" or systematic conversations that Lindie Botes have, she seems like a very genuine language youtuber, im just not in the right head space to appreciate that.
When I was 13 years I took a test to know my English level so I could take classes. The result was intermediate and they told me you don’t need the course for children you can take the general English course. That last one was divided in 6 levels and I qualified on the 4th level but I was afraid and told the instructor to put me on 3rd level... then on my first day I met my classmates who where adults learning the language for working and college students. Now is a funny story actually. You need to know I’m and introvert and perfectionist to butt, so on my turn to introduce myself I was so nervous and said “I’m 30 years old” not 13! everyone was laughing! I was mad at me and blame myself for that mistake. After that it took me awhile to feel comfortable to talk to other people, and part of that was my lack of confidence and even not acknowledging my intermediate level
It's like a journey when learning another language. You will always learn something new whether it be some obscure expression or another word for soda you were unaware of. I get frustrated at times, but ultimately I am confident in my skills. Everyone's brain works differently, but there is no one like me. I don't feel jealousy when I am aware of other polyglots; I am in awe of them, even more so when they speak the same languages I do😊
!!! I SERIOUSLY THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO FELT THIS WAY
Edit: I also felt the same way towards you too back when I used to see your videos go on my feed and never watched them just because I didn't really like polyglots in general despite wanting to be one myself. I already have this jealousy + instant dislike with people who try to learn a language. It's either I feel superior or inferior towards them. Then one time I finally had to face myself and watch your videos just to get past that annoyance I initially had but then as I started to watch more of your videos, the more I got to know how you learn languages and how you are very disciplined + organized + very skilled at speaking them so from that point on I began to judge you less and less. And now you're one of the polyglots I can "like" XD This video was 100% relatable and I don't think I ever left a comment on your videos except for this one. This honestly explains why I'm so hateful towards my friends who are learning a different language cause I have this mindset they're learning it wrong or they're better at that language than I am, etc. It's an endless cycle so we always have to remind ourselves that it's not really about the person we don't like, it's just that we "think" they have something we don't have instead of accepting that we're not on the exact same phase/level as they do in language learning.
Same. I don't think I am jealous of other female language learners, but I am way more critical of them, and I usually feel like I can't relate to them. So I almost never watch Lindie's videos. But this video was very real and honest and I could hear a lot of myself in it.
skitt42 Why do you feel like you can’t relate to them?
@@abcxyz4653 It seems like a lot of female language learners are into bullet journals or taking pretty notes, and using lots of resources made for learners. Korean learners in particular are often into kpop in a big way, and tend to be young. I'm less artistic and more nerdy and prefer using anki, watching videos, and reading native content. Anyway, I try not to watch anything in English, so maybe I'm totally wrong! Just my overly judgmental first impression.
Thank you for not ist having this conversation without filming. We appreciate the honestly and candid experiences you both have shared!
This was so interesting. Thank you for talking about this topic!
Valeria reminds me so much of myself. Thank you so much for sharing and for talking about this!
This was a really great chat to see! I think us language learners can find it very easy to beat ourselves up when we don’t meet our own standards. Language learning can a tough, slow journey and it’s great to see it being called out openly. Love the vids :)
I've read about this not just related to women, but any "minority" in any field (minority in quotes, because women are not really a minority). But the idea is that there is only one spot: the "token" representative. And if it feels like there's only place for one person then you try to compete with the others that would take that "one spot". So, I don't think women are naturally "catty" it's more of a product of a situation you are in and the way patriarchal society teaches you to see yourself.
This!! I think this is exactly what is going on. Thank you for articulating this idea so well.
5:20-5:39 I really felt that. This is a very thoughtful content that I found myself nodding along throughout the video.
This was a great chat. I love that Valeria was open and honest about her struggles. 🤓
Thank you so much for this video! This was a really eye-opening video.
Valeria, you are so brave. I appreciate your honesty and openness. I'm going to follow your channel.
You make a quality content, I loove it!!! ❤️
Thanks for inspiring me
Thank you for making this video. I relate to so much of what you talked about, particularly with feeling frustrated or threatened by more proficient language learners. My negative reactions used to make me scared that my interest in languages was subconsciously fueled by my ego or a superiority complex, which has actually deterred me from studying languages in the past. I've come to accept that wrangling with comparison and ego is just a part of language learning for me, and my enjoyment comes from a genuine interest in language and people. It was unexpected but so comforting to hear that you guys make a continual effort to overcome the same struggles and don't let it hinder your passion for language. I feel even more motivated to continue pursuing enjoyment in studying languages and am even interested in meeting members of this community now.
Thank you so much :)
This was a quite insightful video for me. I truly admired Valeria's openness towards her language learning and her personal struggles. And you Lindie being so respectful to her!
I appreciate you both for having this conversation. Now I understand my coworkers better now. However, I still do not want to stop learning my chosen language. Thank you
Omg I relate so much to Valeria on so many points, but particularly the point around perfectionism and how it holds you back when speaking. It's crippled me when it comes to speaking some languages (particularly Korean) amongst friends and led me to lose confidence before but none of my other friends say they understand that feeling, so it has been nice to hear that someone else feels that way and that it is still possible to move forwards from that position
Hi! To everyone reading this(this'll be kinda long hehe) if ever you watch polyglot videos and stuff, always remember that their progress didn't magically happen overnight :)) you can do it!! I've been studying Japanese really hard for almost 2 months now and I'd say I had a lot of progress. What I'm saying is be proud of what you've done so far! Watching polyglot videos can channel a lot of inspiration you know! I always get motivated to study harder and see the fun in learning Japanese whenever I watch these type of videos, especially Lindie's! みんながんばって！
ほんと！ がんばっで！
@@goaling6643 ありがとう。日本語が学習していますか？
こちらこそ！
👍
I learned German within one year to fluency, but putting in 4 hours on the daily. And now, I have been learning Mandarin for 2 years now, but with about one hour per day or every other day. It is all about the time you put in.
Great video, something that I am very grateful I don’t struggle with, I have more frustrations with my own progress but it’s not comparison based and just me being annoyed I am not making the progress I personally want to make. But mostly my experiences are positive and motivating, even when I get frustrated, it turns into me working harder. I hope everybody can stay positive and value their own learning separately from everyone else’s, but also enjoy the community here on TH-cam and be motivated by our shared interest :D
Thank both of you for being so honest about your negative feelings! I related to so much of what you said and see that you deal with that makes me feel better about myself.
I think what frustrated me or gave me that initial sense of envy was the fact some polyglots could speak a language better than me, when i only study and dedicate all my time to that one language. This was an interesting video, thank you!
I really needed to watch this video. It's been a year and a couple months since I started learning Korean and I recently started watching Korean lessons on youtube and watching polyglots videos as well and I noticed that every time I saw somebody whose speaking skills and vocabulary were better than mine I felt kinda jealous and threatened, mainly with male polyglots. Your video really helped me to open my mind and realize that feeling is not exclusively mine but also other language learners had experienced it as well at some point of their learning process. I think now that I know I'm not the only one it will be a little bit more easier for me to deal with that and use my time properly, thank you. (I'm not a English native speaker so this comment may contain grammatical errors)
If you haven't already try Koreanclass101, i used to listen to their podcasts a lot when I was learning Korean.
Wow! What a straightforwardness! I must admit it takes a lot of bravery to say so face to face. I think all this competitiveness comes from personal insecurity, lack of self-confidence. But we can't waste the time of our lives on this race, like who's better. I feel lucky to be born and grown up before this TH-cam and Instagram era so I could do what I wanted and needed not even knowing about other people who were doing the same somewhere in the world. And now I'm 32, married, with 2 kids (schooler and pre-schooler) and I just have no time to follow anybody and envy them. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to live my life. Lindie, you're the only one here I'm always glad to listen to while having my regular cup of coffee in the morning ☕ simply because I can see you're genuine and you don't try to be what you aren't.
I loved this video, so many good points raised. I feel like I was living under a rock not knowing about all these 'issues' going on among language learners. To me, the language community was among one the few that was very kind, welcoming, overall supportive and by definition, humble. If anything people who were more advanced in their languages skills were more of an inspration and motivation to improve ourselves than a threat. I do get the perfectionnism, but ego shouldn't get in the way of growth, it seems pretty counter productive to me.
Lindie you have a very healthy way of dealing with "envy"! I feel like a lot of times when we are jealous, what we think is "I want what this other person has, (but don't want to admit it), therefore I don't want them to have it!" while it could be "It's so great that this person has this, and I want it too!"
This is a great video that touches upon subjects that I believe most people deal with but rarely discuss. Language envy is I think the main reason it took me a good five years of having language learning as a hobby to ever look up tips on maintaining languages or learning several at the same time. Great to see that others I admire deal with the same struggles (:
Ahhh, this was such a fruitful and honest discussion - I love that so much because sometimes people only like sharing the good things and tend to avoid the uglier parts of themselves or their community. So thank you so much for this!!❤ And hello from Singapore!! I was reading your description and I found out that you live here too, I'm SHOOK🙌😊 God Bless you, I'm so pumped about your channel and all that you are doing💖
Wohoo this was a real honest conversation! Thank you 🙏🏽
Yes! I've been thinking about this so much lately as a learner of Spanish and French. I teach Spanish and topics in linguistics about the language learning process on my channel, but it has been challenging to overcome this need for perfectionism and become comfortable making mistakes publicly. I actually was already planning to address this topic of making mistakes on my channel. I'm so glad I found this video; you've given me some great ideas and made me feel more confident about my foreign language skills. 😊
I really understand about thinking you're making progress in your target language and then having a native talk to you about something that you don't understand and then feeling like a beginner. I started taking Japanese classes when I was 12 in middle school and I'm in college now studying in Japan. I feel like my Japanese should be way better than it is because it's been 8 years and I still sound like a child when I speak in Japanese. I know that practicing speaking will help my speaking ability, so I'm trying to practice as much as I can while I'm living in Japan!
I truly relate with all the things you guys discussed about: perfectionism, jealousy & comparison! I do think it's a pretty common "thing" between girls as you mentioned too. Besides the language learning, I also experienced those things in my surfing community. But thanks a lot for bringing this up & give samples on how we can convert those thoughts into something that is more productive. And I do agree that we should support each other as girls :) Thanks Lindie for creating this video.
This is beautiful, wow, I love how you guys giving words that's in my mind thank you so much, I have experienced the same problem
This was a great, uplifting conversation.
My biggest hindrance in my learning is the fear of making mistakes/fear of speaking. Because of this I find it difficult to be "ready" to speak as I'm also quite a hesitant and introverted person. Thank you guys for helping me think about this in a more positive way! 😊🙏
Wow Lindie! Thank you very much for this content. I myself suffered from feeling inadequate as a language learner. I think the thing about youtube and social media polyglots is that they can both be extremely inspirational but also de-motivational depending on how one perceives it. what helped me was actually consuming less polyglot youtube content and just focussing on actually learning languages :)
even sometimes watching polyglot video n their progress can make u jealous, imagine gathered with a lot of great people... tryin so hard to drive my mind into "yea, dont worry u r good enough"
I'm sorry you have felt that way! Remember that what you don't see behind the scenes in most cases is the hard work and effort that people put in. I always try to show my progress, struggles and mistakes to help encourage people and show them that I am also struggling sometimes! There are so many famous TH-cam Polyglots who always just show off results and don't talk encouragingly or constructively about how to get there and that usually fosters some feelings of envy from others. That's normal human nature, but there are healthy ways to deal with those kinds of emotions. I hope the video will be helpful for you!
@@LindieBotes Yeah!
Truly relevant video in a time like this and a great one too! The mentality that many of my students seem to have is "I will not attempt to speak until I'm perfect". This is basically like saying "I will not plant this seed until it grows into a perfect tree that produces good fruit". How can we expect results without productivity on our part? This is what we should be asking ourselves and it really doesn't sink in until we have actually are productive in the language learning process.
Super impressed by the candor. I can relate A TON to the perfectionism topic. However, I will say, as I've gotten older (now 32), I care much less about what others think. Anyway, great video!
I totally connect with the point about 'down-playing' yourself when you describe your language level. It's like a safety mechanism, to protect yourself against people thinking "well if you've been learning [x language] for [x years] and you still make mistakes, you can't be a skilled language learner".
It takes quite a time to get over this feeling, and also to admit it publicly, so it's great that you're both talking about it here!
That's an interesting topic! It's so interesting how much trouble we bring ourselves instead of having fun with what we like. I totally understand
I think it really depends on how you view language learning. If you're desperate and set your goals high and don't achieve that much because you tried too hard, then you will be even more disappointed of yourself.
However there is a method you get to have your satisfaction, I for instance see my language learning as a journey, like a fun ride. I'm learning korean and have been learning since November 2019, and I'm quite far I'd say,and eventhough I could be way farther if I had put in more effort, I'm happy I didn't because that way it was way more exciting. That way if you see other people's success you are not discouraged and think, oh I could've been that good, you rather think, look where the journey has taken him/her! I want to go there too! And you are motivated to learn something new. It's a beautiful relationship between a language and you! 😊
And thank you, Lindie, I only recently discovered your channel and have been binge watching since! You're so sincere in all the things you do and that motivated me even more to learn new things from home! Thank you, senpai😂! 감사합니다! 사랑해요!❤️❤️❤️
Being proficient in any skill brings along with it as sense of competition. Especially in dance classes.
However...
The lesson to learn is that we are all at different stages and abilities. E.g. stretching is not a competition sport. You warm up and move according to your own body, not someone else’s, otherwise injury is more likely than progress.
Be yourself because there’s not enough time to be someone else too.
What you said about dancing is so true. I usually upload dance videos on instagram, and at my Uni, every one says like I am really good at dancing, but then when I see ppl on instagram dance, I am like maybe I should just stop dancing haha. But I mean, hobbies shouldn't be done to get good in them, but to enjoy them.
You will never know if you can do it if you don’t try. 😁
I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS💖Lately I've been binge watching your videos! And I think want to make a video this summer holidays ; learning a new language 😊💗 I hope you will recognize me :)
I agree completely, I always love watching videos like these. For me, these language learning videos provide me with motivation, especially if they're in or to do with the target language that I'm learning. However, I completely understand why Valeria would get envious, especially if you see some language TH-camrs with the 'I learnt a language in a week' kind of videos.
Also, a really good point about marking progress. I'm the same as both of you, I record my progress via a diary in Polish, which one of my Polish friends then corrects. I sometimes speak to myself in a language (sounds weird, but it works). I love that quotation from Valeria 'I'm waiting for a judgement that won't come.' When I went to Ost-Belgien (German-speaking Belgium) with an A1 level in German I wouldn't even try for the most simple sentences, for fear of making mistakes. This is something I now regret.
Sorry for the essay again. Great video Lindie, keep it up!!!
that actually happens a lot in languages and I can approve, me being a polyglot myself, jealousy and such. I‘m excited to what you have to say😍
Love this discussion 💕💕💕
This video really resonated with me.. for a long time now I've never really shared my journey of language learning because I felt someone else might have already done it and there is really nothing I can add to it.. but I'm trying to get out of it now.. thank you for being so honest!
The last bit in this video where Valeria talked about preferring to underrepresent her skills and surprise someone in a good way than try to accurately represent her skills for fear of potentially surprising someone in a bad way reminds me of a conversation between Kerstin Cable and Sara Maria Hasbun on Kerstin's podcast The Fluent Show. Sara talked about the general problem of women in the language community tending to feel more pressure to under-represent their skills for fear of not living up to what they say they can do. Definitely an episode I would recommend listening to for anyone looking to get deeper into this issue: it's definitely something I personally struggle with (almost like a form of "imposter syndrome" for language learning).
Amazing interview. I sincerely appreciate the honesty.
What a great talk! I can completely resonate with that. I started university without knowing any English and I would catch me comparing myself to my university peers. I'd beat myself up imagining the opportunities that they had had and I didn't. I used to feel that English wasn't meant to me and I was fueling my mind with negative thoughts about myself and my capabilities. Then, I started to try to learn it by myself, I wanted "prove them wrong". After a couple of months I noticed that I had improved a lot, I was more than conversational, I was able to communicate well and get my meaning across. I felt really proud because the effort that I put on it paid off. I don't know whether my English is better than theirs, but one thing that I know for sure is that I'm way better than I was and I'll continue pushing myself on my way to fluency. I'll commit myself to English as a priority until approximately the middle of the year, then I'll try to learn Spanish, since it's close to Portuguese (my native tongue) and I think would be great to communicate with people from Latin america. This whole self-taught thing just increase my eagerness to learn languages!
Hi Lindie,first of all I just wanna say that your channel gave me the energy for study new languages so I’m going to start studying 10 languages from the next month.I’m not as good at learning as other but i want to do it for me and try to go out my comfort zone.I hope many other people start to follow you and your amazing content because they’re worth to watch 💜 (sorry if there’s any errors but i’m still learning English)
I think from this video we can all learn a thing or to from it. Thank you for being honest. That really helps people.
When I learned a language and achieved a certain level, I tend to pay attention to everyone's progress as well. And of course I do envy them (most of the time, unconsciously) for progressing better than me. But then I try to turn the envy into a type of motivation for myself. I really appreciate and admire Valeria for opening up about her feelings!
Even I am a male and I am speaking just 4 languages I can perfectly relate to this video. I think that the perfectionism is the worst, the most toxic and distroing part of character. That's why it is so important to know why we act in a sertain way to be able to change our point of view and instead of cursing our self or others take adventage of their knowlege and experice. Thank you for such a valiuble contents.
Also it is my first time hearing about polyglot comunity. Now I feel like I have to find out more about it! ha ha
There are some language content creators that I don't follow, not because they aren't good or anything but simply because they in a way imply that I need to be perfect. The pressure can be overwhelming.
I think the right amount of jealousy can be a really big factor to improving! I get really jealous when I see someone speaking better than me in a language I'm learning but it motivates me to learn more so I can also achieve their level and become better ^^
Love your honesty!
This hit me, especially on the speaking part. I study an immense amount of vocab and grammar to compensate for the fact that I don't speak with other people. It does suck but i'm glad that i'm not alone in this :P
Yeah buddy me too!
I'm always with my notes and reading my great literature book and trying to learn new words everyday, but I don't have friends to practice the language (at least not in the speaking field). So I feel you
I recently took the StrenghtsFinder test and got the result that competition is one of my core strengths. I was devastated at first because everybody tells you that comparison is the thief of joy, it takes away the fun of things etc. Competition being a strength didn't really make sense to me at all, I always perceived it as a weakness because I can relate a lot to Valeria's feelings.
But my coach told me it's a matter of perspective and how you use these feelings and the need to be better and compare yourself - because it can spark initiative in a community, push yourself and others to achieve great things and it can be very playful as well! This really cheered me up a great deal and I want to share this perspective with the community of language learners.
It's okay to compare. Being bitchy and toxic is what's not okay!
Great video! I am not sure in which year you became aware of this whole language community, but I definitely feel that, in the past 10 years, language learning went from a hobby to a life goal. A lot of people started posting videos on TH-cam speaking 10+ languages to the point that speaking 10 languages seems to be a bare minimum of a polyglot. Also, if you speak 20 languages, whatever you say your method is will become the rule. Building connections and having fun are now less important than fluency and numbers.
Anyway, thank you for the video. I hope you keep inviting other women to discuss language learning.
Having fun and meeting from around the world is my only goal! hahaha Where are you from? Which languages do you speak?
@@GalaSalv I am from Brazil but I currently live in France. I speak Portuguese,English,French,Spanish,Russian, Dutch and a few other languages.
And you?
interesting topic!
In recent years, I've noticed ppl getting jealous of me.
But a long time ago, it was me who was getting jealous of other ppl, which I rarely do now, if ever
This interview nailed it! Experienced the same when I was studying Spanish in an institution. And you know that there's a big comparison it's because they follow "trend" just to prove your "fluency" like taking DELE exams. It sucks because when all of them takes an exam and pass it, they are forcing (not encouraging) you to take also. So your professor singles you out because you're the only one who didn't take it and you're tagged as not "confident" enough to be on that level. They even make fun of you if your grammar or what you're saying doesn't make any sense and won't be listening to you when you have your presentation. So learning doesn't become fun anymore because of their "idealism" and "toxic" system and only stick to their "fluent" students to keep the ball rolling in class because you can't contribute any good.
Yeah Languge learning universities can be really toxic. You should be strong to continue, because if you buy this massage that you aren't good enough it would be terrible for your self-image and future life as well.
@@lazylemon8260 it really is a toxic culture especially when they are trying to "prove" you that they are "better" than you, just because they got to pass those certificates and went to other countries to spend money because they learned it the "native speakers way".
Thanks for making this video. I’ve been struggling with comparing myself to people too, especially since I started learning languages later in life! It’s easy to feel discouraged when when people are 5 or 10 years younger than me and they already speak 3 or 4 languages. But I try to switch my mindset and get inspired by watching talented people instead! :) It’s not always easy but as long as I’m trying, that’s good! ^_^
I had the same feeling in the past. I mean feeling envious about the fact I didn't have the same resources they do nowadays. I even set a list of when I had to learn x number of languages. Gladly I woke up of that nightmare.
I wish you success with your language learning process 💪☺
@@CrisOnTheInternet Thanks friend!! You too!! ^_^
I'm so ready for this video to premiere 💕 sounds interesting!
Yeah, but it will be 2 days later...
a n t i c i p a t i o n i n t e n s i f i e s
@@LindieBotes exactly XD
@@LindieBotes , yeah..
Nice conversation! I think this jealousy can also be fostered by the big-headed//erasouna attitude of some people out there who are just willing to show off their skills rather than sharing them.
It was an amazing video!
Very helpful and comforting, on my 3 years of Japanese studies and now I take the journey to self learn Korean, Russian, Chinese and Spanish 😭🙏🏽
I love this conversation. I am part of the polyglot community and I catch a lot of heat for only wanting to learn Arabic to a native level across all domains (RWLS). I love just learning about languages in general for the other languages. I am still part of this community. I only want knowledge of other languages and not necessarily skills, however, I want both knowledge AND skills when it comes to Arabic. I am still worthy and worth it.
many women still have the thoughts and feelings that they are not enough and this is where jealousy comes into the play (in any area of life) because they are not confident enough
very admirable of Valeria to admit to Lindie how she felt about her in the beginning
I recently found your channel and I now have finished binge-watching ALL your videos
You are such an inspiration Lindie!!!!
Very nice talk. Thank you, I'm a eternal beginner :)
I feel like you both are my soul sisters... we're very alike, and I'm also a UX designer. Thanks for having this conversation and articulating something I think many people face!
Regarding the jealousy between women, that's something I feel too. I think it takes place not only in the language community, but really in any field (and particularly art maybe). I believe that's because I internalized the fact that it's normal for men to be better than women. For example, I study French literature and only men's pieces are emphasized. Only great MEN writers' work is taught in school (high school and later on in university as well). Thus, I think this results in certain expectations regarding women (or in this case, non-expectations). And maybe when they do something with their intellect we have a poor judgement on that because it's like they don't stick to their place (which is generally: cooking, being a wife or a mother, dressing up...) It's pretty sad to observe, I know. But what I do now is that I try to find women to draw my inspiration from, great women artists (and polyglot!) to admire, and that motivates me.
wooo I really needed to say all that but I realized it wasn't the point of the video, so sorry for that. Anyway, I really enjoyed Valeria's authenticity, and that she was brave enough to admit her jealousy. Thank you both for sharing your honest thoughts!
Amazing video!
I think, as a woman, it’s just instincts to compare to each other. We are communal creatures! We just have to remind each other that there’s no reason for envy and jealousy. I’ve had similar feelings too! I just try to remind myself this and have the mindset as “hey, she might actually help me!” ❤️
The Dark Side of the language community is a pathway to languages some may consider... unnatural
I would like to se another episode covering this topic, I feel more warm knowing that Im not the only one who felt that way.
Brilliant topic! Interesting, on the flip side, I've never envied a female polyglot but males I have. When I was younger I would envy Tim Doner and Alex Rawlings. But over time, I grew out of that idea of being jealous but actually using them as sources of inspiration, especially because Alex is also from the UK I thought it was a better way to also be an advocate for that all Brits are not monolingual, for example. I actually tend to take more inspiration from female polyglots because I've always grown up with heroes who are woman. I think as humans though, we have the mindset of being able to really look at someone as if we're jealous when really we're just shadowing our sight because we're not actually jealous, we're just being pessimistic to ourselves.
I think a reason I don't improve speaking is because of fear of myself and because of the anxiety that I hold, so because I still make mistakes, I tarnish myself as inadequate - as you saw me flipping out with on twitter a week ago or so. But today, I felt so proud of myself to be in Bangkok and just ordering my coffee in Thai and asking "นั่งได้ไหม?" (can we sit?).
I think that every person involved in polyglot communities have this problem but try to hide it/suppress it as they feel it’s not right but can’t help it. I’m one of them, and it’s so good to know that I’m not the only one.