Moving the PGA Championship out of August was the worst decision ever. it feels like golf is over in July now when The Open concludes. Nobody cares about the fedex cup
The PGA of America did it right this year, packed the best field in golf for their major, yes the course played relatively easy but it was still a great tournament, great finish and they were not afraid to include LIV players in the field as they rightfully deserved to be there.....and now Seth is gone unfortunately. Golf politics is all wrong at the moment, as NBC's commentary during the US Open final day demonstrated. It actually reminds me of real politics in America right now somewhat.
I remember early on in your shows we agreed many of these characters who blindly followed Monahan and who created so much conflict would like Monahan be removed from their positions in a polite corporate face saving way sooner or later. Of course it was so obvious this would happen many guys had to stay even longer than the norm in these situations. But now we see yet another one bite the dust in Seth, to go with slumbers and blue glasses and others, like dunne and those boys. Seth has done pressers recently establishing some of the good things he did. Which he did do some good things. Played a large part in a cool community course in Florida they featured. Recreational golf has grown. Things true. He Seems like a pretty nice humble man. So yea he leaves with plenty of face. But ultimately it was his loyalty to Monahan and all the messes the establishment side made which is why he is gone imo. The only 2 immune are the Masters and the usga leaders who both have proven to be true outstanding leaders. Golf cannot afford to lose those 2 for a while. But everyone else is super easy to replace. And they are being replaced.
SSG didn’t actually put up any money. They were used just to prop up an artificial value of the PGA Tour - which has very little value. It doesn’t have the stars under contract, it doesn’t own the majors or individual tournaments. All it owns is the Players, an inside tract into the bogus OWGR and scheduling privileges.
Enjoyed the extended version on your Substack channel, as always. I encourage everyone interested in deep dive insights and brainstorming on the general topic to sign up.
PGA of America is NOT the PGA Tour...Retired PGA of America member here...We own the PGA Championship and the Ryder Cup...The PGA of America is the governing body for the 28,000 plus golf professionals that run golf courses and country clubs as well as driving ranges across the country...As well as golf coaches and admistrators that work in various capacities across the US...We are not the PGA Tour however we have many former PGA Tour members that are now head golf professionals, Directors of Golf, and/or golf course owners/partners...Losing Seth Waugh is a nothing burger...
Yes SS - we know what PGA of America is. Why are you conflating this show topic with PGAT? We do talk here about PGATE and how that org may be talking with PGAA about Ryder Cup players. SSG may very well be asking for more influence with future Ryder Cups since they “own” the players (via PGATE) in a for-profit business now. Corporations don’t let other companies use their assets for free.
Golf Leadership is obviously a real struggle and in turmoil. Next, we will hear that the PGAA is selling the Ryder cup. Rumors of that were flying around end of last year. 😮
@@ThinkingManShowmy personal opinion is most of the parties involved want to make a deal but the lone holdout is Tiger who is holding out for as much power as he can and who can really say no to him when he built this so big and lined all their pockets. He may have an axe to grind with Phil and may try and make LIV fold which they wont. Is that a crazy thought??
He has been fired , simple . Ask yourself what 10 months after Ryder cup and 14 months to next you still don't have a captain and you'll find your answer .
Are you guys serious? You’re completely off base about this. Seth Waugh worked for PGA of America not the PGA Tour, in which you keep referring. The two are completely separate. Do your research so not to embarrass yourselves.
Ahhhh. Huh??? We say PGA of America in the first 8 seconds. It is in the Title of the video. And the Description. We do mention PGAT Enterprises as that new for profit org is where the energy is now within the golf aristocracy. Seth has called for unification in pro golf so yeah, PGATE is a big part of this Seth Waugh, PGA of America story.
Roger that Steve. Of all the golf aristocracy leadership, Seth did seem to be one of the better guys. God forbid we see another Jay Monahan type come in next.
It's obvious that neither of these two talking heads have ever been a member of a country club or even frequented a public golf course where a PGA Professional Club Pro was located. If they would have had that opportunity they would have seen and heard over the past 1.5 years, that those 30k PGA pro's did not care for Seth and that feeling was mutual.
LIV is showing which tour is the best now! Could Scottie have won 6 out of 8 at LIV? I doubt it. The best players play LIV plain and simple! The boring tour is the PGA as it's unwatchable.
Very interesting. Don't know much about the fellow but I remember his presser at the PGA and it did seem as though he wanted (for whatever reason) to be more of a unifier.
As an aside; I wish you guys would post more often on TH-cam. I'm considering a sub to the show but certainly not in this economy. We shall see if anything positive happens in November. Sure is looking like it as of recently.
Sounds like he might be signing with LIV soon. Maybe, LIV is just going to offer mega contracts to PGAT Executives until LIV uses the PGAT as its minor league. Who knows? 😀
The Tour wants to emulate NASCAR's points and playoff structure, yet as a follower of both golf and NASCAR, I can tell you that there's a reason that every season since 2004 there's been a separate chart not ordained by the governing body that shows who the champion would be in the "traditional" format. It's a losing battle trying to chase fans that either lost interest or never had any to begin with, while sacrificing the sport as a whole for both the players/drivers and the fans.
Glad he's gone...Mr. Waugh never was one of us 30,000 PGA Members. He's not leaving us in the lurch. We will be better without him. PGA Tour only has about 200 Members. Most of the golfers in the world don't realize the huge differences of functions and Membership concerns between the: 200 PGA Tour Members and the 30,000 PGA of America Members. Y'alls' attempt at mind-reading people you've never met - really keeps me laughingly entertained. I listen, and chuckle, at you guys all the time.
Fair enough… so why then does your association run, participate and promote a TOUR / Major?? Based on your comments, this major in no way represents your association and I’m sure it doesn’t… So why run a Major for TOUR PLAYERS ?
@@adrianbelcourt9640 Mr. Belcourt; Great question. We started that PGA Championship in 1916, when Tour Players did not exist. Begun in 1916, The PGA Championship allowed PGA Members (all gents who simply worked at Courses with everyday golfers) to play together and see who would win. As the 20's, 30's and 40's ambled on, some Club Pros got so good at their game, they started making more money at various events - than with their Home Club salary. Hagen and Sarazen being the most noteworthy. Then after the War, more and more guys got better and better - more and more famous; most especially Hogan, Snead and Nelson - who each still held, rather titular, Club Pro jobs. This described Mens' Pro Golf in the 50's and early 60's. Then came our society's turbulent late-60's. Fueled by Jack, Arnie and Gardner's ideas, these guys said, "Hey, I'm making so much going around the Nation in Tournaments, I don't need a Club Pro job. I've a much different life than all those "sweater-folding" PGA of America Members. We should make a subset of membership in the PGA of America." Up to then, an A-1 was a Head Pro at a Course, and an A-2 was a Head Pro at a Range. Well now they created an A-3, a Touring Pro. within a few years it grew into a HUGELY popular subset of the PGA of America, known as the PGA TOUR. So, that's why we still do it, Mr. Belcourt. We, PGA of America Members also run other National Championships that allow other Players to enjoy some competition. I'll list some of them: Well, I just found the list of Events we run for other Players; but it's so long, I'll just give ya' the link. Thanks, again, for your great question: drive.google.com/file/d/1-7JKVWM7ccEGujyPaQOZ-rsYXj75jzb8/view
@@adrianbelcourt9640 I consider that a great question, Mr. Belcourt. When Tour Players did not exist, we began the PGA Championship in 1916. A golf-loving bunch of Club Pros (then mostly considered, socially, a bit above servants) got together to play - and see who could shoot the lowest score. Into the 20's and 30's PGA Members, mainly Hagen and Sarazen, made the profession much more appealing/cool to the public. After the War, into the 40's and 50's, men's tournament golf became even more cool, largely due to PGA Members like Snead, Nelson and Hogan - who still had, albeit rather titular, Club Pro jobs. Into the 50's and 60's some of these PGA Members started playing so well - and winning enough money in various independent Mens' golf tournaments - they started to not need their Club Pro jobs. By the turbulent late 60's - largely as a result of ideas from Jack, Arnie and Gardner - many of these fine-playing PGA Members said, "Hey, we ain't like those sweater-folding guys. We only play tournaments, and don't ever work at a Club or Course". Up until then, each PGA Member was either an A-1 Course Head Pro or an A-2 Driving Range Head Pro. So, at the request of Jack, Arnie, Gardner and others we created a new class of Membership; A-3 Touring Professional. Within a few more years, this led to the creation of a subset of the PGA of America - what eventually got called the ( wildly popular) PGA Tour. So this explains why, what now get called, PGA Tour Players are allowed to play in our PGA Championship. I was gonna' list all the many other meaningful Championships for thousands of golf-loving men, women and children we host every year, but the list got so long, I thought it best to just give you the link: drive.google.com/file/d/1-7JKVWM7ccEGujyPaQOZ-rsYXj75jzb8/view By quickly skimming this list, you'll see why we still allow many of the 200 or so PGA Tour Players to play in our PGA Championship; which we 30,000 PGA Members still own. Thanks for your great question. You see our, historically-grounded, PGA of America interests go to the PGA Tour Players, but also to many other avid Players - every year since 1916.
@@adrianbelcourt9640 The PGA Championship is not a Tour Major. The PGA Tour, much to their dismay, does not own nor run a Major. - A small club in Georgia owns and runs The Masters, since 1934. - The USGA owns and runs the U.S. Open, since 1895. - The Royal & Ancient Golf Club owns and runs the British Open, since 1860. - The PGA of America (not the PGA Tour) owns and runs the PGA Championship, since 1916.
Thanks Joel for tuning in. As analysts, we are not aware that people or organizations simply tell people what their true strategies and intentions are - since business is war and all warfare is based on deception. Therefore, our job is to read tea leaves and assemble breadcrumbs.
Miss the good ole days when april was the masters, may the players, june the us open, july the open & august the pga . Fedex cup is fabricated bs but it's not going away so start the playoffs in sept and finish with the tour championship in october.
SSG "invested" so that when the PIF "buys" the PGATour, they will make a profit. All other roads lead to losses so that is the motivation for the current actions. Seth Waugh saw his role diminished and like every good industry titan, bailed appropriately.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GgeGQOP10RQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Moving the PGA Championship out of August was the worst decision ever. it feels like golf is over in July now when The Open concludes. Nobody cares about the fedex cup
Nobody cares about any event unless its a major.
Agree completely.
This. ^ And for the last Ryder Cup captain to pass over Bryson was just bush league stupidity. That has to get fixed.
100%
"outnumbered by stupidity" ... exactly my thoughts.
He's just done with it.
You can only deal with the dumbest in the room taking charge for so long.
SSG wants total control with no dissenting voices. PIF has them by the nuts and will string them along while getting more players for LIV.
PIF will go it alone...they don't need crooked partners
Can you imagine International Bankers cutting ties with the international community & Saudi ?
Perhaps hes moving over to where the money is. LIV
The PGA of America did it right this year, packed the best field in golf for their major, yes the course played relatively easy but it was still a great tournament, great finish and they were not afraid to include LIV players in the field as they rightfully deserved to be there.....and now Seth is gone unfortunately. Golf politics is all wrong at the moment, as NBC's commentary during the US Open final day demonstrated. It actually reminds me of real politics in America right now somewhat.
**Apart from the person who died of course at the PGA which was obviously tragic
Thx SiLo. Well said.
I remember early on in your shows we agreed many of these characters who blindly followed Monahan and who created so much conflict would like Monahan be removed from their positions in a polite corporate face saving way sooner or later. Of course it was so obvious this would happen many guys had to stay even longer than the norm in these situations.
But now we see yet another one bite the dust in Seth, to go with slumbers and blue glasses and others, like dunne and those boys.
Seth has done pressers recently establishing some of the good things he did. Which he did do some good things. Played a large part in a cool community course in Florida they featured. Recreational golf has grown. Things true. He Seems like a pretty nice humble man. So yea he leaves with plenty of face.
But ultimately it was his loyalty to Monahan and all the messes the establishment side made which is why he is gone imo. The only 2 immune are the Masters and the usga leaders who both have proven to be true outstanding leaders. Golf cannot afford to lose those 2 for a while.
But everyone else is super easy to replace. And they are being replaced.
LIV is getting stronger.....Tiger still plans to take over the PGAT for himself. LIV foundations and execution of long term plans progress.
USA open ratings were up 300% because of Bryson says everything
My guess is he is pissed off about the SSG partnership. He believes that the deal with LIV is necessary and SSG is now in the way....
SSG will lose their money
SSG didn’t actually put up any money. They were used just to prop up an artificial value of the PGA Tour - which has very little value. It doesn’t have the stars under contract, it doesn’t own the majors or individual tournaments. All it owns is the Players, an inside tract into the bogus OWGR and scheduling privileges.
@@1362pc…it’s a tax write off for SSG.
Enjoyed the extended version on your Substack channel, as always. I encourage everyone interested in deep dive insights and brainstorming on the general topic to sign up.
Thx TJ as always!
LIVing Rent Free has Consequences! Enjoy the show!
Presidents cup is going to be a disaster
Yup. If they dont get Joaco and the rest of torque.
Agree, Seth w re-appear on the Operating committee of LIV !!
Have you considered he might have done something wrong and was asked to resign to save face? Never seen a banker held accountable before
PGA of America is NOT the PGA Tour...Retired PGA of America member here...We own the PGA Championship and the Ryder Cup...The PGA of America is the governing body for the 28,000 plus golf professionals that run golf courses and country clubs as well as driving ranges across the country...As well as golf coaches and admistrators that work in various capacities across the US...We are not the PGA Tour however we have many former PGA Tour members that are now head golf professionals, Directors of Golf, and/or golf course owners/partners...Losing Seth Waugh is a nothing burger...
Beautiful.
Yes SS - we know what PGA of America is. Why are you conflating this show topic with PGAT?
We do talk here about PGATE and how that org may be talking with PGAA about Ryder Cup players. SSG may very well be asking for more influence with future Ryder Cups since they “own” the players (via PGATE) in a for-profit business now. Corporations don’t let other companies use their assets for free.
Golf Leadership is obviously a real struggle and in turmoil. Next, we will hear that the PGAA is selling the Ryder cup. Rumors of that were flying around end of last year. 😮
That would be something.
Great show!
Thx Sid
@@ThinkingManShowmy personal opinion is most of the parties involved want to make a deal but the lone holdout is Tiger who is holding out for as much power as he can and who can really say no to him when he built this so big and lined all their pockets. He may have an axe to grind with Phil and may try and make LIV fold which they wont. Is that a crazy thought??
I agree with many here in that as far as I’m concerned, nothing to see after the Open except LIV and YT golf.
He was either forced 2 resign or he got mad at something and left
He has been fired , simple . Ask yourself what 10 months after Ryder cup and 14 months to next you still don't have a captain and you'll find your answer .
Are you guys serious? You’re completely off base about this. Seth Waugh worked for PGA of America not the PGA Tour, in which you keep referring. The two are completely separate. Do your research so not to embarrass yourselves.
Exactly.
Ahhhh. Huh???
We say PGA of America in the first 8 seconds. It is in the Title of the video. And the Description.
We do mention PGAT Enterprises as that new for profit org is where the energy is now within the golf aristocracy. Seth has called for unification in pro golf so yeah, PGATE is a big part of this Seth Waugh, PGA of America story.
May be as simple as they would not meet his terms for a new contract.
For sure. Could just be normal business; but such short notice. How do you read that element of the story?
An entitled corporate elite says FU to his organization? What’s the word - hypocritical, typical? Cue sad trombone.
Roger that Steve.
Of all the golf aristocracy leadership, Seth did seem to be one of the better guys. God forbid we see another Jay Monahan type come in next.
It's obvious that neither of these two talking heads have ever been a member of a country club or even frequented a public golf course where a PGA Professional Club Pro was located. If they would have had that opportunity they would have seen and heard over the past 1.5 years, that those 30k PGA pro's did not care for Seth and that feeling was mutual.
LIV is showing which tour is the best now! Could Scottie have won 6 out of 8 at LIV? I doubt it. The best players play LIV plain and simple! The boring tour is the PGA as it's unwatchable.
Totally agree
Very interesting. Don't know much about the fellow but I remember his presser at the PGA and it did seem as though he wanted (for whatever reason) to be more of a unifier.
As an aside; I wish you guys would post more often on TH-cam. I'm considering a sub to the show but certainly not in this economy. We shall see if anything positive happens in November. Sure is looking like it as of recently.
Maybe he was not asked, not part of the deal. Sort of like, i don't believe Rory was asked.
I have an idea…. How about a half dozen PGA golfers make policy and negotiate with PIF and others.
Sounds like he might be signing with LIV soon. Maybe, LIV is just going to offer mega contracts to PGAT Executives until LIV uses the PGAT as its minor league. Who knows? 😀
The Tour wants to emulate NASCAR's points and playoff structure, yet as a follower of both golf and NASCAR, I can tell you that there's a reason that every season since 2004 there's been a separate chart not ordained by the governing body that shows who the champion would be in the "traditional" format. It's a losing battle trying to chase fans that either lost interest or never had any to begin with, while sacrificing the sport as a whole for both the players/drivers and the fans.
Thx MK. Good take.
He is staying on in a Senior Advisory position
Just window dressing.
So stupid not doing a deal with PIF
All Jay Monahan's mistake, and his few cronies.
Glad he's gone...Mr. Waugh never was one of us 30,000 PGA Members. He's not leaving us in the lurch. We will be better without him. PGA Tour only has about 200 Members. Most of the golfers in the world don't realize the huge differences of functions and Membership concerns between the: 200 PGA Tour Members and the 30,000 PGA of America Members. Y'alls' attempt at mind-reading people you've never met - really keeps me laughingly entertained.
I listen, and chuckle, at you guys all the time.
Fair enough… so why then does your association run, participate and promote a TOUR / Major??
Based on your comments, this major in no way represents your association and I’m sure it doesn’t… So why run a Major for TOUR PLAYERS ?
@@adrianbelcourt9640 Mr. Belcourt; Great question. We started that PGA Championship in 1916, when Tour Players did not exist. Begun in 1916, The PGA Championship allowed PGA Members (all gents who simply worked at Courses with everyday golfers) to play together and see who would win.
As the 20's, 30's and 40's ambled on, some Club Pros got so good at their game, they started making more money at various events - than with their Home Club salary. Hagen and Sarazen being the most noteworthy.
Then after the War, more and more guys got better and better - more and more famous; most especially Hogan, Snead and Nelson - who each still held, rather titular, Club Pro jobs. This described Mens' Pro Golf in the 50's and early 60's.
Then came our society's turbulent late-60's.
Fueled by Jack, Arnie and Gardner's ideas, these guys said, "Hey, I'm making so much going around the Nation in Tournaments, I don't need a Club Pro job. I've a much different life than all those "sweater-folding" PGA of America Members. We should make a subset of membership in the PGA of America."
Up to then, an A-1 was a Head Pro at a Course, and an A-2 was a Head Pro at a Range. Well now they created an A-3, a Touring Pro. within a few years it grew into a HUGELY popular subset of the PGA of America, known as the PGA TOUR.
So, that's why we still do it, Mr. Belcourt.
We, PGA of America Members also run other National Championships that allow other Players to enjoy some competition. I'll list some of them: Well, I just found the list of Events we run for other Players; but it's so long, I'll just give ya' the link.
Thanks, again, for your great question:
drive.google.com/file/d/1-7JKVWM7ccEGujyPaQOZ-rsYXj75jzb8/view
@@adrianbelcourt9640 I consider that a great question, Mr. Belcourt. When Tour Players did not exist, we began the PGA Championship in 1916. A golf-loving bunch of Club Pros (then mostly considered, socially, a bit above servants) got together to play - and see who could shoot the lowest score. Into the 20's and 30's PGA Members, mainly Hagen and Sarazen, made the profession much more appealing/cool to the public.
After the War, into the 40's and 50's, men's tournament golf became even more cool, largely due to PGA Members like Snead, Nelson and Hogan - who still had, albeit rather titular, Club Pro jobs. Into the 50's and 60's some of these PGA Members started playing so well - and winning enough money in various independent Mens' golf tournaments - they started to not need their Club Pro jobs.
By the turbulent late 60's - largely as a result of ideas from Jack, Arnie and Gardner - many of these fine-playing PGA Members said, "Hey, we ain't like those sweater-folding guys. We only play tournaments, and don't ever work at a Club or Course".
Up until then, each PGA Member was either an A-1 Course Head Pro or an A-2 Driving Range Head Pro. So, at the request of Jack, Arnie, Gardner and others we created a new class of Membership; A-3 Touring Professional. Within a few more years, this led to the creation of a subset of the PGA of America - what eventually got called the ( wildly popular) PGA Tour.
So this explains why, what now get called, PGA Tour Players are allowed to play in our PGA Championship.
I was gonna' list all the many other meaningful Championships for thousands of golf-loving men, women and children we host every year, but the list got so long, I thought it best to just give you the link: drive.google.com/file/d/1-7JKVWM7ccEGujyPaQOZ-rsYXj75jzb8/view
By quickly skimming this list, you'll see why we still allow many of the 200 or so PGA Tour Players to play in our PGA Championship; which we 30,000 PGA Members still own.
Thanks for your great question. You see our, historically-grounded, PGA of America interests go to the PGA Tour Players, but also to many other avid Players - every year since 1916.
@@adrianbelcourt9640 The PGA Championship is not a Tour Major. The PGA Tour, much to their dismay, does not own nor run a Major.
- A small club in Georgia owns and runs The Masters, since 1934.
- The USGA owns and runs the U.S. Open, since 1895.
- The Royal & Ancient Golf Club owns and runs the British Open, since 1860.
- The PGA of America (not the PGA Tour) owns and runs the PGA Championship, since 1916.
Thanks Joel for tuning in. As analysts, we are not aware that people or organizations simply tell people what their true strategies and intentions are - since business is war and all warfare is based on deception. Therefore, our job is to read tea leaves and assemble breadcrumbs.
Glad he’s gone.now if the tour can get rid of Jay…………..
Miss the good ole days when april was the masters, may the players, june the us open, july the open & august the pga . Fedex cup is fabricated bs but it's not going away so start the playoffs in sept and finish with the tour championship in october.
It didn’t go in his way no money no way!.
Did Jay get Seth booted?
Slumbers is going to set up a LIV major
Like to see Martin Slumbers work with LIV on a Euro Tour partnership of some kind. Would not surprise us at all.
Maybe Seth will replace Monahan as PGA Tour commissioner.
That would be a big plus for the pro game.
There's a new regime in charge and departures are de rigueur, n'cest pas?
Oui……Seth did seem like one of the better leaders within the golf aristocracy.
@@ThinkingManShow Yes. Perhaps his integrity was the impetus for departing,
Tell us its a teaser at the start guys.. Guess I'm out !
Apologies RD..........the rest of the 1 hour and 20 mins is on the audio podcast: thinkingmanshow.substack.com
It’s 18 min. The other stuff is like peacock.
He baled n the LPGA, so
Bye!
SSG "invested" so that when the PIF "buys" the PGATour, they will make a profit. All other roads lead to losses so that is the motivation for the current actions. Seth Waugh saw his role diminished and like every good industry titan, bailed appropriately.
Interesting take S.