It makes perfect sense though. If you Brainstorm your spouse to the top of your deck, you no longer have their hand in marriage. The moral here is to stack your Brainstorms very carefully.
When Cellarspawn was first spoiled, my mind instantly went to Shadow of Mortality (Which can be reduced by 13), Sickening Shoal (As removing a Shadow with Shoal is 17 CMC) and Snuff Out as something to work along side Death's Shadow. It completely slipped my mind that Vialsmasher was a thing (As I honestly only equate that card to an EDH commander).
Breaking news: Cellarspawn beat delver, thus, it is the new defacto best deck in the format, Oops took it on though, making oops all spells officially the best deck in the format according to BoshNRoll logic
I played once in a tournament with a vial smasher deck with decent success but that deck had delver and deathrite shaman. The success clearly came from the pressure to the life of the opponent via tempo and then vital smasher helped crossing the finishing line. That deck would have been decent with a card like treasure cruise or even expressive iteration. Of course, these cards were never legal at the same time.
@@christopherlundgren1700 or both 👀. But yeah one is somewhat easier to cast, but requires you sac 2 lands. The other is a bit harder to set up. But I imagine brainstorm and ponder can make miracles happen
@@daltonmekis I hear that, but at least historically Thunderous Wrath has never proven that the juice was worth the squeeze. Now maybe it looks a lot tastier when you’re doing half the opponent’s life total in one go. But the other issue I think you’d have is that Cellarspawn + Fireblast is a combo you can do all in one go. Having to set up the Wrath with a cantrip while also having Cellarspawn on board is more like a three card combo, making it a lot sketchier to pull off with any consistency. My 2 cents.
@@christopherlundgren1700 again sorta. Fire blast has only been worth the squeeze in all in combo decks (just burn) where the goal is to push across 20 damage as fast as possible at any cost. Sacrificing 2 lands is a big deal and could lose you the game if the opponent can force it, but winning on turn 3 is a big upside. Thunderous wrath meeting a FoW is great that you got a 2 for 1 for a single mana. Plus casting a BB spell and having 2 mountains in play is something that can’t be overlooked in the manabase, especially playing a deck that is trying to cast 3 drops consistently. If ur going rakdos, I think you 100% play fireblast. But if ur playing grixis, I think the discussion becomes a lot more difficult and there is a lot more to consider with the format as a whole in mind. I would still lead towards thunderous wrath in a deck that is casting cantrips and can’t really afford to sac 2 lands
Probably losing anyways, but @7:50, cast frog, jump frog, Murktide is 6/6 and Archon chump attacks into it? This relies on your opponent having nothing and deciding to attack.
i wonder how Ancient Cellarspawn would work in a mono-black Necrodominance shell, since its a 3 drop that can be played turn 1 with Dark Ritual and Soul Spike dealing *11* damage to the opponent for free is extremely juicy
i think 45:41 there was a possible winnign line. But im not sure if im overlooking sth and we dont know the hand ofcause - Ponder takes frog, puts murktide top and ponder second. - Play frog - Pass Opponent animates archon. Trigger. You sac the frog you played, sac a land and discard push. opponent goes to 15, you go to 15. Assuming opponent passes. - You draw big murks, play it for full 8/8, vialsmasher pings for 7, opponent goes to 8. You pass. Murks is killing archon on the block. So if oppoentn attacks, they go to 11, you lose vial smasher to the trigger, they lose archon and face down a murktide 2 turn clock. 11 life, 8 damage showing, you draw ponder. If they dont attack, they stay at 8 and have to cump murks because your ponder wich is 3rd from top would take them to 7.
I feel like any line that relies on opp drawing 5 blanks in a row can't really be called a winning line. It's an interesting line worth considering, but I think Bosh made the right play to try to dig for a redraw or actual answer
@@rekennerwhat you mean by 5 blanks. We know the 3 cards didnt contain a hardcounter, otherwise opponent would have countered sink. Its a daze at best wich wouldnt help vs the line above. So they see 1 card after the ponder turn (when they animate), 1 the turn after and another one the turn after. And their deck is actually containing a lot of blanks vs that line. Pushes are blanks, lands are blanks, any non flying creature is a blank, frog is a forced chump block that buys a redraw. Counterspells are blanks unless its thr first card they draw otherwise murks is in play. In return what would the ponder possibly find that answers archon for 3 mana? Molten collapse only out to dig for? So if i dont overlook sth its - find collapse off ponder vs - present a 3 turn clock and the opponent needs to find an answer to murktide. Offcause i will not say its a guaranteed win, but i guess the odds are much much higher.
@maxmustermann1111 Push isn't blank when we're relying on small creatures to eat archon triggers, frog chumping buys them a redraw... And an archon trigger that probably ends the game. Their counters are not blanks because we're relying on putting things into to play to eat triggers. They did probably draw land for turn, I forgot that, but they have archon trigger coming into play draw, their draw for their next turn, then archon trigger draw. Some of those draws can't hit some outs for opponent, but if any of them are another reanimate, they're very ahead. Bosh was digging to his 0 and 1 cost gy hate which is a more permanent answer. Your line was a bit better than I realized after looking at the game state more in depth, but it also relies on a lot going right.
@@rekenner What do you mean „0 and 1 cost answers“. How many are they. There is no 0 cost answer at all since we dont have a blue for force. Ponder finding force wont stop animate cause we dont have 5 mana. Ponder into brainstorm into Force AND blue card can work. What are the odds. And 1 cost answers is a collapse(2cost) and 2 cuts. One of wich was played. So after first ponder we see we are digging for a 2 outer and we see only 1 fresh card from 2nd ponder and a wild draw. So see 2 cards for a 2 outer. And you tellin me thats better odds than the opponent not finding an answer to murks? They have 3 cards in hand, none of wich is fatal push, reanimate or force. Otherwise they would have used either of those the turn before. So they get 1 look to answer one of our creatures or find force. Otherwise they lose archon. At least 40% of the cards doesnt help After that they get 2 looks to find an answer to a resolved murktide or buy another turn with a flying creature wich is basically only frog. And thats supposed to be less likely than a 2 outer on 2 looks that puts us at 1 card vs 3 cards from behind?
So I get why Soul Spike doesn't work; the card disadvantage is brutal to the point that it's only slightly better than lightning bolt on a per-card basis, even with the cellarspawn out. But what about Fireblast? I can see getting the required Mountain count being rough, but if the deck really is burn it doesn't seem unimaginable as at least a sideboard finisher for extra reach against decks that seem tough to beat without it. Even hits creatures, for whatever that's worth.
We did discuss Fireblast when working on the deck. This build doesn’t have enough mountains and is tight for space. If you wanted to try a rakdos build with that, rift bolt, thunderous wrath, skewer the critics, that could be something.
I'd be interested to see a Sultai or 5c build of this, with Beanstalk as a draw engine that synergizes. You can also get Leyline Binding and Solitude if you go into white, maybe make it a 5c Yorion value Beans pile?
In round 4 I don't think you actually wanted to cast the Murktides, even though you kept saying you did. The difference between your gut instinct and your rationalization.
Are you willing to concede that Psychic Frog is a design failure, now that 50%+ of your recent videos have it as an auto-include? Certainly this is bad for the health of eternal formats.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm loving this world that Bosh lives in where Brainstorm cures everything except divorce
Has anyone tried it against a divorce yet? It might just work there too.
It makes perfect sense though. If you Brainstorm your spouse to the top of your deck, you no longer have their hand in marriage.
The moral here is to stack your Brainstorms very carefully.
@@NigiriCat you can Brainstorm into Peacekeeper. I think that works.
I tried to brainstorm the divorce papers to the top of my deck and the attorney bowmastered me
Broke my leg but it’s okay Brainstorm will heal me
Now you’re getting it
the number of times you tapped out of murktide leaving up the wrong mana was insanely funny.
Badlands is the perfectly named card
When Cellarspawn was first spoiled, my mind instantly went to Shadow of Mortality (Which can be reduced by 13), Sickening Shoal (As removing a Shadow with Shoal is 17 CMC) and Snuff Out as something to work along side Death's Shadow. It completely slipped my mind that Vialsmasher was a thing (As I honestly only equate that card to an EDH commander).
On todays episode of: "should have maindecked 4 graveyard hate spells"
I watch your videos daily and have for a few years now and I must say this is THE BEST video of yours I’ve ever seen . The funniest for sure !
Excited to see this alongside Beans!
It's just amazing to watch how much fun you have playing to perfection. g3 of round 1 was incredible
so you think it was correct to ponder in turn 1 instead of thougtseizing? i found that a very weird play tbh.
@@1ucky1ukskywa1kerBosh didn't want to get cheesed by Wasteland
@@rekennerfair enough
The divorce court comment was very much the epitome of dougdoug twitch chat
I was already playing a grixis smasher deck before mh3, and I will definitely be using this as an upgrade to that list. Love seeing my type of bs
@31:37 I had to laugh SO hard ghegheghe 😂😅 that pooping sound was spot on man lmfao.
Especially against the most “poopin” deck around atm 😂
Breaking news:
Cellarspawn beat delver, thus, it is the new defacto best deck in the format,
Oops took it on though, making oops all spells officially the best deck in the format according to BoshNRoll logic
I played once in a tournament with a vial smasher deck with decent success but that deck had delver and deathrite shaman. The success clearly came from the pressure to the life of the opponent via tempo and then vital smasher helped crossing the finishing line. That deck would have been decent with a card like treasure cruise or even expressive iteration. Of course, these cards were never legal at the same time.
Thinking so hard about cellarspawn in that false cure deck
I feel like the best thing you could do with this card is cast a scion of drako to 10 your opponents, that would be so sick
I love that you keep playing these yanki decks
This kind specifically is nice because it's got a little spice, but can actually win lol
lost it laughing with you at 1:14:50. we've all been there
Half of this episode would be part of the best 2024 Bosh banter
The one of Thought Scour!!!!! BROKEN Legacy card! Haha, that was soooo freakin funny!
Any Metamorphosis Fanatic in the pipeline?
Monday!
Vial smasher in legacy? This is hype
I was looking at this in a blue black tempo shell, kinda just slotting this in place of grief in dimir reanimator with daze force frog murktide etc
Miracle Thunderous Wrath dealing 10 damage would be so sweet
Fireblast probably easier?
@@christopherlundgren1700 or both 👀. But yeah one is somewhat easier to cast, but requires you sac 2 lands. The other is a bit harder to set up. But I imagine brainstorm and ponder can make miracles happen
@@daltonmekis I hear that, but at least historically Thunderous Wrath has never proven that the juice was worth the squeeze. Now maybe it looks a lot tastier when you’re doing half the opponent’s life total in one go.
But the other issue I think you’d have is that Cellarspawn + Fireblast is a combo you can do all in one go. Having to set up the Wrath with a cantrip while also having Cellarspawn on board is more like a three card combo, making it a lot sketchier to pull off with any consistency. My 2 cents.
@@christopherlundgren1700 again sorta. Fire blast has only been worth the squeeze in all in combo decks (just burn) where the goal is to push across 20 damage as fast as possible at any cost. Sacrificing 2 lands is a big deal and could lose you the game if the opponent can force it, but winning on turn 3 is a big upside. Thunderous wrath meeting a FoW is great that you got a 2 for 1 for a single mana. Plus casting a BB spell and having 2 mountains in play is something that can’t be overlooked in the manabase, especially playing a deck that is trying to cast 3 drops consistently. If ur going rakdos, I think you 100% play fireblast. But if ur playing grixis, I think the discussion becomes a lot more difficult and there is a lot more to consider with the format as a whole in mind. I would still lead towards thunderous wrath in a deck that is casting cantrips and can’t really afford to sac 2 lands
There was some OOMPH behind that “hooyah” after round 1
Time stamps missing so…
5:01 round 1
22:07 round 2
Time stamps were added before I made it to round 3
Thanks?
Thought Scour 🙌
Spoke it into existence.
Nice deck bro
I would like to see if an affinity build of this could be something.
APPRECIATE THE BCDL SHOUT OUT! 🎉
17:55
Why not cast Vial Smasher after Brainstorm?
Bro that thought scour😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 2000 iq
Probably losing anyways, but @7:50, cast frog, jump frog, Murktide is 6/6 and Archon chump attacks into it? This relies on your opponent having nothing and deciding to attack.
do you think there's scope to build a BUG version of this deck with beanstalk?
57:16 Meow
CELLAR PACK SMOKE EM IF YOU SPAWN EM
@44:00 pretty sure Vial Smasher is a girl!
Big if true. Hard to tell from any of the printed art.
I'd rather Sink in the Stupor than Stink in the Soup
I think this would be best in beans
i wonder how Ancient Cellarspawn would work in a mono-black Necrodominance shell, since its a 3 drop that can be played turn 1 with Dark Ritual
and Soul Spike dealing *11* damage to the opponent for free is extremely juicy
THIS seems sweet
i think 45:41 there was a possible winnign line. But im not sure if im overlooking sth and we dont know the hand ofcause
- Ponder takes frog, puts murktide top and ponder second.
- Play frog
- Pass
Opponent animates archon. Trigger. You sac the frog you played, sac a land and discard push. opponent goes to 15, you go to 15. Assuming opponent passes.
- You draw big murks, play it for full 8/8, vialsmasher pings for 7, opponent goes to 8. You pass.
Murks is killing archon on the block.
So if oppoentn attacks, they go to 11, you lose vial smasher to the trigger, they lose archon and face down a murktide 2 turn clock. 11 life, 8 damage showing, you draw ponder.
If they dont attack, they stay at 8 and have to cump murks because your ponder wich is 3rd from top would take them to 7.
I feel like any line that relies on opp drawing 5 blanks in a row can't really be called a winning line. It's an interesting line worth considering, but I think Bosh made the right play to try to dig for a redraw or actual answer
@@rekennerwhat you mean by 5 blanks.
We know the 3 cards didnt contain a hardcounter, otherwise opponent would have countered sink. Its a daze at best wich wouldnt help vs the line above.
So they see 1 card after the ponder turn (when they animate), 1 the turn after and another one the turn after.
And their deck is actually containing a lot of blanks vs that line. Pushes are blanks, lands are blanks, any non flying creature is a blank, frog is a forced chump block that buys a redraw. Counterspells are blanks unless its thr first card they draw otherwise murks is in play.
In return what would the ponder possibly find that answers archon for 3 mana? Molten collapse only out to dig for?
So if i dont overlook sth its
- find collapse off ponder vs
- present a 3 turn clock and the opponent needs to find an answer to murktide.
Offcause i will not say its a guaranteed win, but i guess the odds are much much higher.
@maxmustermann1111 Push isn't blank when we're relying on small creatures to eat archon triggers, frog chumping buys them a redraw... And an archon trigger that probably ends the game. Their counters are not blanks because we're relying on putting things into to play to eat triggers. They did probably draw land for turn, I forgot that, but they have archon trigger coming into play draw, their draw for their next turn, then archon trigger draw. Some of those draws can't hit some outs for opponent, but if any of them are another reanimate, they're very ahead.
Bosh was digging to his 0 and 1 cost gy hate which is a more permanent answer. Your line was a bit better than I realized after looking at the game state more in depth, but it also relies on a lot going right.
@@rekenner
What do you mean „0 and 1 cost answers“. How many are they. There is no 0 cost answer at all since we dont have a blue for force. Ponder finding force wont stop animate cause we dont have 5 mana. Ponder into brainstorm into Force AND blue card can work. What are the odds.
And 1 cost answers is a collapse(2cost) and 2 cuts. One of wich was played. So after first ponder we see we are digging for a 2 outer and we see only 1 fresh card from 2nd ponder and a wild draw. So see 2 cards for a 2 outer.
And you tellin me thats better odds than the opponent not finding an answer to murks?
They have 3 cards in hand, none of wich is fatal push, reanimate or force. Otherwise they would have used either of those the turn before. So they get 1 look to answer one of our creatures or find force. Otherwise they lose archon. At least 40% of the cards doesnt help
After that they get 2 looks to find an answer to a resolved murktide or buy another turn with a flying creature wich is basically only frog.
And thats supposed to be less likely than a 2 outer on 2 looks that puts us at 1 card vs 3 cards from behind?
@@maxmustermann1111 faerie macabre and nihil spellbomb as Bosh said while digging
So I get why Soul Spike doesn't work; the card disadvantage is brutal to the point that it's only slightly better than lightning bolt on a per-card basis, even with the cellarspawn out. But what about Fireblast? I can see getting the required Mountain count being rough, but if the deck really is burn it doesn't seem unimaginable as at least a sideboard finisher for extra reach against decks that seem tough to beat without it.
Even hits creatures, for whatever that's worth.
We did discuss Fireblast when working on the deck. This build doesn’t have enough mountains and is tight for space. If you wanted to try a rakdos build with that, rift bolt, thunderous wrath, skewer the critics, that could be something.
Ah, I'm one of those armchair quarterbacks when it comes to this stuff and I know it. I do appreciate you indulging the question, though.
Bosh pack smash 'em if you got'em
Obligatory algorithmic contribution
B-b-b-biiig grixis
I'd be interested to see a Sultai or 5c build of this, with Beanstalk as a draw engine that synergizes. You can also get Leyline Binding and Solitude if you go into white, maybe make it a 5c Yorion value Beans pile?
Spawn pack burn em if ya got em
12:00 this is a probably worth the pyroblast, no?
It’s reasonable if you don’t think you can play through a monster and you don’t respect daze.
In round 4 I don't think you actually wanted to cast the Murktides, even though you kept saying you did. The difference between your gut instinct and your rationalization.
Are there any phyrexian mana spells that would be worth playing?
I feel like a copy of maddening hex would be good here.
Why not hogaak?? 8 hit run as a 1 of or to cute
Are you willing to concede that Psychic Frog is a design failure, now that 50%+ of your recent videos have it as an auto-include? Certainly this is bad for the health of eternal formats.
I was saying 3 months ago it should be banned. What am I conceding here? I don’t work for WOTC.
The next step is you play non-white and slam beanstalk in here too
Day 2000 of oops all spells still being my least favorite deck to exist