The TRIumphant Legacy of MH's Underwater Combat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2024
- Will underwater combat be back in Monster Hunter Wilds? I dunno. But what I do know is that the mechanic itself and the three dimensional spin it brought to Monster Hunter had a massive effect on the franchise as a whole. And with Tri about to turn 15, I think it's a good time to take a bit of a look back and offer up some appreciation to this ambitious if a little janky component of Monster Hunter's history. Enjoy!
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I still want underwater to come back if only for the design space it creates. Swimming alongside Ceadeus's immense form was a sight to behold, and I want something like that again.
I miss underwater traversal/gathering much more than combat. That little cave in Tri/3U at the extreme north of the map was SO COOL. Like a secret hideout.
Same here buddy, it was such a crime when they cut off that section of the map in GenU.
Maybe the real underwater combat was the friends we made along the way
One thing I really appreciate about the 3-D aspect that underwater introduced, I think goes kinda unnoticed. We, as hunters, are more on par in combat with the monsters then ever before and that makes some old monsters infinitely more fun. You brought it up in the video with the ledges and wirebugs but I feel it goes so much further beyond that. I love Rathalos more in 5th gen then I ever have and it’s not because he flies less but because I can get up there to fight him on his own terms wether that be through climbing, jumping, or wirebugs. Monsters like Bazel or Crimson Glow Val are often hovering or gliding above the hunter but you can still damage them if you work it out. In a way Tri didn’t just give us the King of the Seas it gave us The True King of the Skies too.
Oh yeah. The third dimension changed things almost unanimously for the better on several fronta
Personally firmly of the opinion that Underwater should eventually return for the sake of what it can give us in terms of monsters and maps. Like a proper underwater coral reef map
I think Aquatic Seltas would be a cool concept. I want giant underwater bugs
I will never call it anything but "Shock Croc" from now on
Hey man, it fits 😂😂
I feel like Capcom has the resources they need now to make a fantastic underwater combat system. And i feel like they should invest in doing it. Underwater brings with it new enviroments, opens new avenues of storytelling, and it would be such a waste if we never got to see Namielle underwater.
It definitely seems way more feasible than ever before
We want under water combat!
When do we want it?!
NOW! Seriously I want it in a modern game. Just imagine the power of traversal potential with under water, on foot, wall climbing /wall running, & most importantly Ariel gliding. Every corner of the map would be interesting because of the way you find them.
underwater isn't something I think needs to come back but it definitely should, I think if the hunter had a bit more speed and mobility underwater there would be no issues with it. In 3rd gen underwater's main issue was when a monster would do a charge attack it would take the hunter over half a minute to follow it only for the monster to do another attack as soon as you get close to It also old camera control wasn't great for underwater but that's already been fixed.
I have never experienced underwater combat but if it means Lagi can return in all it’s glory I’m down.
Even if it doesn’t come back as you said underwaters legacy lives on.
#GobulGang
Hell yeah
I hope they bring back the underwater mechanic (but not the rust mechanic) so we can venture towards the underwater chili's.
Sup TinCan
Hell yeah brother
I'm gonna bet here, Underwater combat will be back in Wilds, not only that, but the final monster, the main monster, will be an amphibian monster with both land and water combat phases
If underwater does come back I would assume they'd wanna bring in a flagship that capitalizes on it
I think starting with Tri definitely has an effect on how someone would view underwater combat. I started with Tri too and for me it was always just a part of the game. I never knew the previous MH games to make a comparison to. I still don't mind it and would welcome its return because I think Capcom would try to leave weapon movesets as untouched as possible on a second attempt.
I haven't finished the video yet but I will say that the increased verticality in the more recent entries definitely seems owe some its DNA to Tri's underwater combat. I hope we are able to get a rendition of it that feels better than Tri and 3U in the future, but I won't hold my breath.
Honestly a big part of what I enjoy about Tri is how unique it feels compared to every other game in the series, even its own G Rank expansion 3U. Tri has actually dark caves where a torch is actually helpful, monsters eyes glow in the dark, creating a foreboding and intimidating feeling that doesn't really exist anymore. Maps have water to swim through that leads to areas that wouldn't able to be accessed over land, and this would amazing to aid in the rewarding feeling of exploration that World and Iceborne incorporated into its maps. On top of that, the ability to follow monsters like Plesioth into the water and fight them on their own turf is awesome. It's one of the strengths of Rise and Sunbreak, being able to actually challenge Rathalos once it goes into the air rather than having to either Flash Bomb it to knock it out of the sky, or just wait for it to land.
Jokes on Rathalos I've been challenging his aerial throne since world with the Kinsect Glaive.
8:26, I played Aerial Dual Blades in GU, and it was so damn fun getting several mounts like that and spinning like a beyblade!
Aerial Switch Axe is also crazy fun. It’s a cool style
As a Tri head Swimming brought something unique to the table and was my first experience with monster hunter so I was sad when I played other games in the series thanks for talking about it ❤
For sure. And I wanted to add a lil something beyond just speculation about Wilds
You have no idea how hyped I got when you started listing Explore monsters at the end.
Comin soon brother
That was incredible! I never thought about underwater combat in that way, but it really has done a lot for this series I love so much! I do hope they can make it fun, but it’s absence won’t ruin anything either. Thanks for the awesome video! Can’t wait for the next one!
Glad you enjoyed!
Starting with Tri, I assumed underwater combat was a standard feature in the series. I don't hate underwater combat but it sure had it's problems.
Oh for sure but I doubt it’s unsalavgeable. Question is, is it worth trying to salvage from a time and resource perspective
Another banger from the goat of the mh side of the net seriously the best in the biz
On the topic of underwater, I do want it back, but I wouldn't be surprised if wilds doesn't have it. However the "portable" entry might. Theres so many amazing monsters and future possibilities for underwater associated monsters that I definitely always hold some cope for every entry bringing it back
lol I appreciate the compliments. I’m certainly trying to my best out here
The impact of the underwater combat is undenyable, but also something a bit smaller. Tri also build the underwatrer envorments up more than they did on land with a lot of different fish just being there without being anyones target, something World would take up again with the mostly useless endemic life.
Yeah that’s pretty much true, the original fish kinda were endemic life
@@cr-volcanic I mean also the larger fish, like the shark and the large Sunfish. Just there to fill the world a bit.
Lovely video. Happy to see this love letter to Tri. That's the game that put MH on my radar.
I do wanna say, though, I'm still swimming in the Copium Sea. Hear me out. I DO think legitimate Underwater Combat is coming back to MH Wilds. In the teaser, they showed off a new dynamic weather system and used a Sandstorm to show it off. There's a heavy implication here that we will see other types of weather as well and I'm assuming rain will be among them. My prediction is that areas of the map with be able to flood over in either seasonal rains or due to Elder Dragon activities so that, in practice, Underwater returns without being a dominant force in the game.
Oooooo that could definitely be possible
I used to be one of those people that wanted underwater combat to return because I really love fish monsters and wanted to get more at their best.
But then world came with jyuratodus, and afterwards Rise with Somnacanth and Almudron and now I don't feel the need for underwater combat anymore.
The shallow water gimmick allowed both piscine wyverns and leviathans to get the more intense and varied moveset they had in gen 3.
Just porting Plesioth's and Lagiacrus' 3rd gen moveset with the shallow water mechanic and I'm good personally lol😊
It’s an excellent substitute if we never get the full thing back
@@cr-volcanic
Honestly the way it is now it is even better than underwater combat (3U is still my fav game however)
I wouldn't mind Jyuratodus to join the club of early and midgame monsters that get weirdly to appear after alongside Lagombi, Barroth or Daimyo Hermitaur.
Its Rise version deserves!
It is a pretty fun and atmospheric fight and it just scratched the surface (pun intended) of what the mudfish could do.
Give it a stronger finisher move than the jump and you have an A tier midgame monster imo.
It's sad to know the tri/4u combo game where you play as a hunter with a squid fish pet the functions simar to the wirebug but under water and has you be part of a trading crew sailing from coastal village to coastal village as brings us back to port tanzi and Moga and Cheeko sands and a expansion that has the guild send you to deep underwater ruins will likely never exist, that's a dream game right there
I still maintain that if we want to continue building the lore and ecology of this world and expanding on different classes of monster that we can't afford to not give it another shot but it's sad the mechanic itself is stuck in a deathloop
Yeah it’s got the unfortunate combo of pricy and risky.
I vary much miss underwater combat
A lot of points here were excellent, and it does make sense. The effects of a mechanic that has mixed reception did wonders for the franchise in a whole. Regardless, i do want to submerge once again and explore underwater ecosystems. The untouched potential is exciting but i can see why that may not happen. I am partially biased for Underwater Combat due to 3U being the first Monster Hunter game i actually got a good handle of, i tried Freedom Unite but never could get a handle of it. Lagiacrus was my first ever big wall and it took forever to get past him. However through being stubborn and learning his fight i eventually was able to get past him, Lagiacrus legit taught me how to "Get Gud".
Also speaking of Lagiacrus, i never noticed the green eyes the new render had. I did notice that its proportions are slightly different, less thin and perhaps even slightly less long.
Yeah man… that new Lagi render is weirdly different. We’ll see.
that's totally fair, it's a risk and the more complicated the games get, the harder it will be to fit it in.
i still think Wilds is using all of it's dev time on it's own new things. that said, we have no idea what 7th gen will look like. they may see fans hopeful for it, during Wilds' life cycle, and they may choose to do it next. they're not even finished Wilds yet, then they have the expansion that is totally happening for it, then they can start working on the next generation. maybe that far down the line they will choose to do this. you never know but it's too early to say, one way or another.
the series would be very different if Tri's implementation of the mechanic was better received. i've been saying for years that MH4 was them realizing that underwater didn't work so they stepped back a bit. using that 3d element in a smaller way, while mostly keeping it more like 2nd gen with more monster skeletons. cherry on top, with Frenzy giving us a proper endgame grind for the first time and that has never gone away.
more detailed underwater zones, hell yeah!
lol all they have to do now is make sure all the skeletons can function with the slopes.
yeah no, shallow water will only be finished if there are fights that are hard enough to justify using the armor skill built for it. no one uses that skill. i want there to be a reason to slot it in, i was begging for it through Iceborne's entire news cycle and even before it. lagi and other new leviathans, that they likely would have made to join him, would have fixed this. i still hope they will have this in Wilds, with World style shallow water zones.
Glad you mentioned the mechanics of Wirebugs during the topic of swimming, While the wirebug personally wasn't my favourite MH tool, I was starting to think early in the video, wouldn't adding a wirebug/(aquatic creature?) like tool that acts the same way work well in tandem with swimming? Speeding up movement allowing quick dodges and repositioning, add some other movement based objects in the environment like water spouts that launch players around & allowing hard hits on the monster, maybe faster moving ecology to cling too. There is probably alot that could spice up underwater gameplay as well as making the ocean a little more crowded.
Not sure if we will be seeing underwater fully return any time soon and Wilds is certainly innovating in it's own way it seems, but I do hope the team try again in some way, even if it goes the way of MW Rise rampage mode (which I didn't mind too much) which took a slight backseat late game or maybe something at least limited to a specific boss siege like MH Worlds Kulve Taroth was.
I definitely think those types of risks even on a smaller scale can pay off later, It help that the series is also doing pretty well for it's self.
In development risks are usually the only way to add variety to a game series and I'd like to think that, to a passionate dev team , a failed idea doesn't necessarily mean "lets not do that" but instead, "how can we do that".
From what it looks like in the wilds trailer there is weather events, so if they bring back underwater id hope they bring in the idea of currents that randomly happen, each time they happen they change direction and vary in strengh, requiring you to go deeper and deeper until ita over. Or have a specific skill to prevent the effects of the currents.
Another commenter had an idea for regions being flooded as well. There's a lot you can do with dynamic weather and environments with water
I think a lot of problems with the underwater combat came from the way the weapons worked. The move sets for a lot of them became really easy to just miss because they aren't really meant hit above and below. Having the monster be a half foot to the side and miss a slash is one thing, but suddenly you were missing up and down all the time as well. Along with the breath timers that could be punishing for people that don't like to tailor their armors and skills to specific fights, it just became more of a nuisance to a large chunk of players. I miss it though, because I miss the monsters. I want lagiacrus armor again, it looks so good.
Well put, though I would trust the developers to put a ton of effort into making sure the weapons would feel good. Huge undertaking for sure though.
Gliding is gonna be hype
I'm going to copy an old comment of mine from another video about MH's underwater combat. I still want it to come back.
"I really liked underwater combat, and I agree that it should return. It was a fun variation on the normal hunting mechanics. It's main problem was the sluggishness of the hunter. Now-a-days, hunters are extremely agile and faster than ever, so I don't think the sluggishness will return.
Additionally, I think the new style of maps would be an excellent addition to underwater mechanics rather than hinder it. Imagine: An archipelago map where you have to swim between the islands. A deep sea map that is entirely underwater, and you can swim around and in deep sea trenches and mountains. An Underwater caves map with tons of unique rock and crystal formations. All of these sound amazing to me.
Now imagine the monsters that could be found in these locations. Some other people are already doing this in the comments. Zorah Magdaros, Namielle, Nakarkos, Lagiacrus, the crabs, and more. New subspecies like a Mizutsune adapted for swimming. And all the new monsters that could be made with pure water maps: giant electric eels, squids, and other seaborn abominations.
They could do a lot with it, and I think it would be amazing." - me like a year and a half ago.
I think that if they made water fights limited to only a few monsters and limit the amount of weapons you can use underwater might be possible. I miss fighting underwater and some water dwelling monsters look amazing I’d love to see more monsters fight in the water. We can even have water bugs as insect glaive. It would also be a good way for people to learn or try other weapons they otherwise would not use. If not then at least a way to trade for monsters not in the game mainly water ones from older games similar to MH4U.
If it costs a huge ammout of resources to add underwater combat, just make a barebones spinoff that creates all the assets.
Like picture this, a fishing game where you fish monsters but instead of just finishing the fight after reeling you get a monster hunter bossfight after reeling.
That would make a fun spinoff if you like fishing games (like me) but also allow a lot of assets to be made for the mainline entry.
Aquatic monsters only need underwater moveset to be made cuz no land combat, movesets underwater won't need matchups, underwater shaders... stuff like that.
And if the game flops/it isn't liked, it is just a spinoff (luckly with lower budget) so it wouldn't be a huge loss
Fighting underwater never bothered cz for me it made sense to have movement restrictions in water.
I just wish there was more uses for it back in tri
lol, I may have just been a dumb kid but I played underwater with a wiimote and nunchuck and liked it
I am of the very strong opinion that underwater combat as it was was perfectly fine, but it was SEVERELY limited by being forced onto a REALLY shitty controller/control scheme. Between the camera controls and the motion controls to attack it felt terrible(or even worse, being forced into a claw grip in ultimate on the 3ds, which is never acceptable). But I've played tri with a custom control setup for an Xbox controller on an emulator and the underwater combat feels great.
Nintendo control schemes have a tendency to do that to some games lmao
Hey Valcanic I got a question for you, could you in the future do a video on your thoughts about the creatures and fun features from the dinosaur king series, whether it’s the TV show,the manga, the arcade, games, or the DS game?
I want blast dash underwater to turn in to missle
If anything Id say Lagiacrus is liked despite underwater combat, not for it
Rise is lesser in the 3d space for map because wire bugs and wall running
the idea that tri had a small roster because under water combat is idiotic that is not how game dew works different people are responsible for different parts of the game it doesn't mater how much time and effort under water took to make because movement scripting and monster design are done by different people one does not effect the other tri roster was small more because the increase in the standards for the monster design animation and ai which is a much grater factor fore the number of monster i mean com on just look on the move set of the vilosadrome vs grate jagi clearly monsters were cut because they did not met the new standards the game is on the same engine they cloud have easily just port the entire freedom unite roster if they wonted to