With how much money HYBE is earning nowadays, it wouldn't actually hurt for them to find good and capable vocal coaches that can help their artists improve.
Absolutely. But I think the problem is that when the group debuts, their schedules are so packed that they don't have time for that anymore. Jimin actually complained way way back, that he would like to work on his vocals, but he is not in a position where he can receive vocal lessons. The msuic shows and similar performances, when idols don't sing live these days, do not help them improve at all.
They did when the idols were still in training, but now it's come the idols' decision whether they want it or not. I heard there's one male idol (i forgot who was it) he wasn't satisfied with his vocals, so he get some vocals lessons
@@pocky11stickmaybe you're talking about dk he is one of the best vocalist In 3rd gen with hard work, he was told he wasn't fit for main vocal I think and that helped him improved tremendously to being one of the best
Few weeks ago Xiumin got hate for saying that IDOLS SHOULD BE ABLE TO SING FIRST cuz at the end of the day people listen to their music. This got many fans of particularly these groups offended. We can clearly see why.
yeah. i hope hybe improves that. ig it’s like a personal choice. like jungkook who practice a lot on his vocals and vocal stability while running. but at least hybe doesn’t lip sync every show 😔
in fact there’s a lot of vocalist with unique tones but is still technically good like luna and hyolyn so it is possible to sing good without compromising technique
Baekhyun is an amazing singer and he's still taking singing classes That's bcuz he's passionate about his job ! I think other idols should learn from him We shouldn't always blame the company! If the idol wants to improve they can take classes themselves!
I think one of the most problematic things about kpop's singing is that somehow having a high register has become 'more impresive' than having good vocal technique. Also, agengies look more for stage performance and presence than vocals. It is truly sad how what you sing has become more important than how you sing it.
bring back the mid range has been my motto for several years when it comes to kpop. companies focus way too much on high notes and lack creativity in utilising the natural mid range of majority (tbh all) of artists
exactly! idk why kpop does this... every other musical industry i know is always dictated by the country's most common used register... like most brazillian female singers are contralto, most canadian male singers are tenor etc... and that's what works best. if korea focuses more on idols being better at dancing and performing then they should really hop off the high register
i wish mid-registers were more common in kpop. not only does it sound good and provide some vocal diversity, but it's probably much more comfortable for some idols.
This is sometimes also a thing in the western market. All the girls with lower registers either aren't as popular as, say Ariana, Demi, etc. Or they're very popular, but they rap way more than they sing. I also think companies do this because they believe higher ranges sell more. But it's kinda true. There are lots of fans who rank people's vocals not by their technique, but whether or not they can sing high notes. I used to see tons of people say that Selena Gomez couldn't sing (if you don't like her voice, that's perfectly fine) because she couldn't hit high notes, they didn't go by tone or technique at all. Also, I apologize if this doesn't make a ton of sense, I'm very sleepy, and my brain is trying hard to form sentences rn.
Hybe don't invest great vocal coach that focus on technique, all they is mostly they are train their idol/trainee to sing with a style rather than technique, if an idol can sing high and a have a nice tone they rather let them do what they want unless if they asked for proper lesson.
Kpop is generally very performance and visual based and especially with hybe idols the focus seems to lay more on dancing than anything else which works but well doesn’t do anything for them whenever discussions like these come up :/
The thing that gets me is that idols were trainees for like their ENTIRE teenage years (sometimes longer) wth were they doing all that time if not working on their voices
I'm not a pro vocal teacher, but yeah, i have to admit that Kazuha's vocals are unironically sounds strange to meーrapping and vocal wise, and i can't help everytime her parts came around made me go "okay, what was that?". Also for me, Jimin's vocals come off too pitchy, even chipmunk'ish sometimes.
@@saiki.k__8144 And yet she still gets more lines than Sakura & Eunchae who trained longer, even though she isn't technically better than them in any means?
@@GamingBrownii dont get that too. sakura not only trained longer, my girl has YEARS IN THE INDUSTRY and gets the least lines in the group. i get her tone isn't matching with the groups image like yunjin is or have chaewon level stability but goddamn have some respect at least 😭😭
@@sakaom bingo! Sakura, Eunchae and even Chaewon most of the time don't suit the image (sound-wise) that the group is aiming for, in Eunchae's case it's probably because she's still young and learning how to impose her voice, Chaewon can get away with it because she's really skilled and knows how to work with her tone but Sakura only knows how to do a single limited style of singing and can't manipulate her voice at all, Kazuha is a very similar case to her, but she's lucky that her natural tone already matches with the group's intended sound, which is why she ends up getting more lines than Sakura.
as someone who used to be a predebut army, jimin;s case is actually quite heartbreaking to me. there's even a youtube video where he was extremely upset with himself and wanted to take vocal lessons, but with the intensity of bts's schedules for the past decade it wasnt possible. because of his vocal tone, the producers would always make him scream in the back of a lot of bangtan's songs and somewhere during 2017/18 his voice just couldn't take it anymore. i don't know enough abt vocals to say if the damage is irreparable, but there's something almost croaky abt his voice when it wasnt like that in the past. he's the prime example of why hybe's "self-teaching" method of training (apparently they lock trainees into tiny individual practice rooms for 6-10 hrs and expect them to self-improve on dance/singing/rap according to jake) is bogus. i understand the company is more dance/performance centric but the vocal health of their artists is also important
Wow that explains why some idols have trained for years but still can't master the basics... ypu need professional guidance to improve. I bet there are a lot of companies that take that approach because it's cheapest. And then charge the idols money bc trainee debt. Wow what a scam 😊
that "self-teaching" explains a lot. it's confirmed that most K-pop agency doesn't provide their idols with a professional vocal coach. I feel sorry for those idols who broke their vocal cords because no one told them to sing with healthy technique @@bvnditbul7039
@@bvnditbul7039 exactly!! hybe deadass has a class about music diversity where they force their trainees to listen to a variety of different styles of music which don't get me wrong, instilling passion and work ethic in your trainees is important but it's crazy that basic vocal skill is completely overlooked. it's a shame because they actually have one of the industry's best dance training program where even the 'bad' dancers in their 4th gen groups have a decent grasp on basics.
now this self teaching is kinda crazy. like yeah, you can kinda teach yourself some things, but you'll only get so far without professional guidance. especially since hybe tends to give their groups a lot of vocally challenging songs.
jimin case is one of the saddest i've ever witnessed, it reminds me of park bom's: great potential wasted by lack/wrong vocal technique (pushed by the company).
@@Andy-dk5gc No they don't you clearly haven't heard them live. BTS is one of the very few groups who always sing live while performing complex choreo they literally never lip-sync or use autotune just backing vocals like all artists do and they can sing. They always get complimented on their vocals by vocal coaches and professional artists I feel like people just made up this false assumption and ran with it
I hate to say this cause Le sserafim is one of my ult groups, but there was definitely a vocal hole that was left when Garam left the group. Garam, Chaewon, and Yunjin were definitely carrying that group vocally
@@jessyn.2591she still at least had some degree of support going on, more or less like Eunchae, her in the group only solidified the vocal line, that was before she left, I mean yk how the J-girlies are
As an Engene, I would like to say all Enhypen members need heavy vocal training except maybe Sunoo and Heeseung. Yes, they also need vocal traning but they still hold pretty well on their own. HYBE should really invest some time in their vocals because everything else about them is amazing. Also, I love their vocal tone. P.S: All of them are young. So, they have got a lot of time to improve and I think they are getting proper vocal training recently. I would really like to see them improve in their upcoming comeback.
im a sunoo bias, and i think all of them really need vocal lessons, because while heeseung and sunoo have a decent technique, i feel like they still have a lot of potential and opportunity for growth. heeseung is primarily stylistic and i feel like with proper training he would be able to do what he does now with the back up of technique which would avoid any damage in the long run. for sunoo, who i always exclaim is an underrated vocalist within the group because he doesn't get enough lines to showcase his wide range of skills, he has a lot of potential in different areas like agility, lower register, falsetto, mix, and i think these areas would improve a lot more if he had proper lessons. i think heeseung and sunoo aside from being the only members that have a sense of vocal technique, are the only members with really good musicality and i think they could really become a good vocal duo with some training. the other members as well really have a lot of potential but need A LOT of vocal training too.
No need to be a god like baekhyun or Hui, Jungkook, Jaehwan, or a btob member to be a good singer. It is like plastic surgery everyone would be alike and it is so boring
Indeed not like but atleast in the same level. Atleast novice to pro level. Not for the fans but for themselves. In the long run proper technique will save their voice
The worst is that some of them sounded better pre debut. I recently watched Iland and Jungwon was not an SM main vocalist but he did not strain as much. I think they give him really high parts that force him to sing at the limit of his range. Yunjin from Lesserafim also sounded better in Produce 48 oddly enough.
New Jeans and TXT are good live….better than many groups from other big labels. Their Lolapalooza festival performances in Chicago were fantastic. Also Leserafim performance at Grammy museum was pretty good. They’ve improved and tbh, they have the most strenuous choreography for girl groups. I haven’t followed ENHYPHEN so I can’t say. I haven’t watched their other new group either. HYBE is doing things right and that’s why they’re the top label rn.
As an army, I always got bashed for saying jimin will get hurt if he continues like this... I don't have that much knowledge of vocals, but I can clearly see the damage in recent years... please dont neglect jimin's health for your ego if you care about him
He said he’s working on his vocals now (in his production diary), maybe since BTS is on hiatus it’s good for him to take a break and learn how to properly utilise his voice
How I wish every ARMY has a mindset like yours. I've been saying that Jimin's singing is forced and bad and that he needs a proper vocal training. He has a potential but the company is not investing on correctly using his voice. I ended up being roasted by them and calling me things, saying that I was just hating on Jimin. Like whut?? I respect BTS.
We start singing at 6 in quires and practice with bands and composing etc. That’s why a lot of black people can sing .By the time I was 13 I could already harmonize etc. It’s difficult to start at 13 and become great at vocals
I love how you don't sugarcoat your points but still remain constructive with your criticisms. You also point out their problem areas which will help them know exactly what to work on to improve. If they ever see these videos, I hope that they try to take action for themselves. We need more episodes, keep them coming!
The other day Xiumin of EXO made the comment of how important singing is in the industry. No matter what that's your bread and butter. No one can ever call you out your name if you have skills. That said, generations are changing and Autotune/AI is glossed over most artists also in the West. Performance across the board is bleak when labels spend no money on artist development or even find a good source to begin with. When EXO says Baekhyun won't stop singing around the dorm or Chen, it's them exercising their vocals every day. They love to sing, it's an extension of them. If you love to sing you must put in the time every day... actors still take acting classes to tap into emotions. The music industry is done for, labels are signing AI artists... why pay for a human who can't sing. Music Appreciation isn't taught anymore so peoples ears are not attuned to what qualifies as quality music or vocals. Cuteness doesn't last forever that's why your skills must come first. New Gen, only a few Kpop artists can walk up on an Apollo stage and make it off safely, individually.
completly agree with you somehow some new generaation or newly debuted groups wether its boy or girl group sadly they dont focus on singing anymore its very rare to find good and developed singers. Specialy new jeans, leserafim, txt, enhypen
Jungkook is now that kpop star who has made it in the west as a superstar. The Times Square and Jimmy Fallon performance showcased excellent live singing and dancing with great breath control. He’s the new global pop star. Forget Chris Brown who can’t sing anyway.
@@ranonampangom2185 he’s a very good singer(vocal coaches have praised his vocals) and fantastic live performer which can’t be said for many kpop idols who are very good singers. It’s one thing to be a good singer an pd another to be a good singer and execute it live consistently along with choreo. He is a global pop star. His Jimmy Fallon and Times Square appearance has taken his status next level.
I'm glad someone addressed jimin finally cuz like, his album is great, but in addition to your great points about pitch and tension, the gritty throat noise he starts all his lines with (which I also found super noticeable in mots7 and be) just does not work (i.e. sound nice) when done that frequently and sounds so painful ;0;
That's when i started to dislike his singing 😢 i love his voice but dislike his style of singing 😢 i hope he's taking lessons he mentioned on suga's show🙏
just that tbh others than that it’s okay for me. rappers don’t have to be a decent singer to be able to rap. being a rapper mostly requires your finger to lift a pen
Controversial opinion but can we add Felix to this list? Stays are so blind to his struggling to stay on pitch in both live performances and in the recording booth. Just because he's not a good singer doesn't mean he's not talented, but the "eight all-rounders" thing is such bullshit.
Lol let be honest here the only all rounder in Skz is Han, Chan rap in an awkward way, Changbin's vocals are not developed, Lee know's vocals are really bad and he doesn't even rap, Hyunjin's singing voice is a disaster, Seungmin can't rap, I.N is dare I say untalented enough to be compared to the rest and Felix although he is a lead dancer other members dances better than him, can't sing and his rapping is just him using his deep voice while rap talk
@@Husseinriyadh88 Just be honest and say you don't like them. Chan raps on par with other groups rappers but he does it rarely and usually in English. If you have 2 excellent and one very good rapper in a kpop group you don't need anymore. We know next to nothing about Changbins vocal abilities but when he sings he sings very well. Han sings better than most main vocalists and rapps better than almost the whole industry. These three are allrounders. Lee Know had developed his vocals immensely and his live singing only gets better. The only ones that can't sing is Felix and Hyunjin - dancers that rap. Two out of eight. All of them can rap on a sh*ty level kpop considers rap. Yes - even Seungmin and I.N.
He didn’t regress. You can produce stable vocals and sing with control using incorrect technique… it’s just not sustainable. Sooner or later you get vocal damage and it can be irreversible. Here’s an explanation of how that happens physically as someone with a singing and physics background, if you’re interested: When you scream/strain when you sing, your vocal cords bump against each other forcefully to create sound. Long term what happens is that the friction creates lumps on your vocal cords. Those lumps (frequently called nodules) make it impossible for you to sing certain notes, creating gaps in your vocal range. If you support your singing with air via breath control, your vocal cords don’t sustain damage as the air carries out a larger portion of the vibrations. If you’re also able to tune the exit point of the air and the shape of your mouth, you can even create resonance, which is amplifies your voice. This is how opera singers are able to be so loud. Singing with correct technique is very difficult for the following reasons: 1. You need a ginormous amount of air to produce sound compared to scream-singing. When I first tried to project my voice using head voice, I needed to use so much air that I felt dizzy. And for K-Pop idols, it’s even harder to get enough air while doing complex choreo. 2. Once you’re able to produce the air, you need to find the resonance. Unfortunately it feels like tuning an instrument blind if you’re unfamiliar with it. It feels like sound is exiting from different parts of your head depending on what pitch you’re singing. This “exit point” is also different for each person. 3. Once you get over points 1 and 2, there’s a mental hurdle. Singing with correct technique feels like the sound is small (even tho the sound itself is actually large). Once you’re used to singing with incorrect technique and gauging ur performance according to how ur vocal cords feel, this feels wrong. Because you’re not supposed to feel anything in your vocal cords with ur singing in correct technique. Also, because the sounds you produce enter both your ears at different times (in contrast to how it enters others’ years simultaneously), what actually sounds good to your audience sounds like crap to you urself. From a company standpoint, I don’t think developing correct vocal technique is economical, because: 1. Longer time to debut to instill correct singing skills - most k-pop idols have to debut young 2. Probably will need to simplify choreography to make time and space for breathing - not possible with current K-pop trends 3. Why spend so much money and time when you can just squeeze out everything an idol has to offer and then replace them? After all, there are so many people lining up to be idols. Also, I would like to add that even in the west, it is rare to see pop singers singing in correct technique, partially because of modern techniques like auto tune and microphones. Artists don’t really need correct technique to perform. Also, many western artists have nodules too (case in point, Adele, Indina Menzel, and many broadway singers). However, western artists have more freedom to choose tour dates and songs within their comfort zone, minimizing the amount of built-up strain.
A good singer doesn't stop getting vocal lessons. Bcoz they want to continuously improve. A very good singer will never be satisfied bcoz their mindset will always want to do MORE. For example, Chen & Baekhyun, they are really good singer already and really known for their vocals, but then they never stop attending vocal lessons bcoz they want to always improve. As Xiumin said, SINGING is more important than dancing.
I'm sorry but this is in fact true, just because some people choose not to get vocal lessons does NLT mean they aren't good vocalist. Take Jungkook for example, Jungkook said when he was a trainee he tried doing vocal lessons but he ended up stopping them, not because he didn't want to learn/improve but because of the fact that the vocal coaches tried to change his color of voice and his style and make it into something that it's not. He said he doesn't like taking lessons from vocal coaches because they try to change his vocal identity. So he dedicated HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS everyday to teaching HIMSELF. He said from the moment he woke up to when he went to sleep he'd constantly do vocal exercises and find ways to improve, and trust me jungkook is HEAVILY self-critical on himself and ALWAYS strives to do better and better. Y'all have to realize its different for EVERY vocalist and just because you don't take vocal lessons doesn't mean you aren't amazing. Hell look at Beyonce, she HATED taking vocal lessons, yet she's one of the best vocalist of our time. Please don't generalize people and make it out to be that singers who don't take vocal lessons don't care about improving and being the best they can be, believe it or not some people are actually better when they take the time THEMSELVES and teach THEMSELVES.
@@BEOMIEPRINCESSjungkook is NOT a great nor an amazing vocalist. he is below/ average. he’s just the best vocalist in a terrible vocal group. not a good example. beyonce is a good one though.
@@BEOMIEPRINCESSsee…all the points you mentioned highlights the same thing, that’s training be it through a coach or themselves…it all comes down to getting trained and improving. And honestly jk might be good but comparing him to baekhyun, Chen, Beyoncé or any SM artist with respect to singing is unfair. Coz they are way too good……jungkook I guess is okay but at least he’s trying
@@BEOMIEPRINCESShe has vocal lessons these years, you just need to find the *right* vocal coach for you, If you train it wrongly it will only lead to bad results.
What bothers me about Lisa’s (and the whole of Blackpink’s generally) case is, I’ve seen videos of her singing prior to debut (at recitals, and with her vocal coach, etc.) and there was clearly more potential to be a better vocalist than when she joined YG. She had better diaphragmatic engagement, tone, and just more freedom, before YG. If She doesn’t want to get lessons or is continued to be pushed as a stylistic sub vocalist more than an actual vocalist that would be a shame. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was getting some sort of vocal guidance from someone in YG (we know teddy helps her/them most…) but it was further damaging what she already knew. Also the vocal coaches at YG concerns me….most of YG’s vocal lines have suffered due to questionable technique they all seem to exhibit (apart from winners main vocal, and taeyang). I hope they don’t ruin Baby Monster. (Edit) In case it wasn’t clear, I’m not blaming YG solely. I agree that the members should be investing in vocal coaches outside of YG. Lisa seems to be still very close to her old vocal coach from Thailand…she’d be better off hitting her up on her own.
Rosé has also improved from debut as well, and Daseung and Minzy are actually quite good vocally, and much better than Taeyang and Winner’s main vocal.
@@DeeDeeDeeeee Maybe Minzy, and Daseung. I haven’t listened to them much recently, but from what I remember tension was still an issue. So that maybe true. As for Rose she seems to be more consistent but not necessarily better in technique overall. She’s improved marginally and has more stamina as far as I’ve noticed.
@@moptop4355 I’d say her technique has improved as well, at debut anything above G#4 for her was tense and nasal but now she has good moments up to Bb4.
@@swduc2836 HENCE why I said "if she doesn’t want to get vocal lessons”… I didn’t blame yg solely. And if an idol is getting coached by a vocal trainer who doesn’t prioritize their vocal health, it’s really not a "them” issue. They are actively seeking the help, but if the help is doing more damage than good then it’s clearly a company issue. Have you seen any of their shows with Ikon, Winner, Baby Monster, the coaches are not it.
Vocal training in kpop is such a weird case bc idols are trained to be more well-rounded which takes away time from properly developing their vocals. They’re also focused to sing in certain styles and ranges that either they aren’t ready or that don’t suit their voice.
When people say an idol is well rounded it normally means someone who’s trained to be a very good dancer and performer who can rap a line if asked and hold a tune. The demands of many kpop songs are higher than the skills they’ve been trained for
That's because the Companies are in for money and not for talent and quality for the fans.Kpop has become such a big business opportunity for almost everyone with a cute face.Make some cute voice and cute face and apparently some fans will eat it up and be content with it
The issue is they don't recruit based on vocals. They recruit primarily based on looks. You can only fine tune a dud so much. Some ppl just can't sing and that's fine. But if you're paying to see a musical performance, they should be able to sing. That's why the fact that so many idols are scared of encore performances is worrying. Singing shouldn't feel like a test but an expression of self.
@@johnpauljonesisabadass8134yeah is extremelly sad but true 4th gen fans are the worse, they want to stan hot beautiful dancers, the music is teh least they care about, they need a group that would come with a great choreo they can imitate ... Having idols who sing but dont dance do t give them this benefict .... Is weird I stan red velvet cuz their whole diacography is amazing, not only their title tracks, i have on my playlist their bsides, which make me happy, cuz i want to listen to music
I wish Jimin all the best too. I love his sweet voice, it suits his whole image and personality perfectly. He's had some good vocal moments but also some not very good ones. I hope he does get the help he needs because I want his voice to last throughout his career. We're in this Bangtan sh--- for life so I really wish he improves.
@@chidieberevirginia7199 Well I am very Jimin-biased so what do you mean? And I'm genuinely concerned about his vocal health. It doesn't matter how much money he makes if it's at the expense of his voice. I want his voice to last and him to be confident in his singing. That'll save him a lot of mental torment from thinking he's not doing good enough.
@Bethflowers64 I can and its sad lmao doing choir and band helps you a lot and actually learning how to breathe and not strain is very important and also basic info.
What Xiumin said... It really shows now. I've never noticed this lack of vocal techniques because I don't watch live shows. And I'm absolutely stunned rn💀
@@Taemtiddies Exactly. I must admit, he wasn't that good since the beginning. It's practice. And well practiced, experienced person can say such things 😊
With Kazhua, this is why idols should at least be training for 2 years. Kazuha only trained for 5 months and debuted with Le Sserafirm, yet her vocal is really weak. This is why she should have trained longer and received more vocal lessons to help improve her ability. There are exceptions like Baekhyun from EXO, who only trained for 7-8 months. But with his situation at least his vocals are really good and he was experienced with musical techniques as he trained as a singer at age 11 and was a lead singer in a band before exo. It also kind of confuses me how she's called the main dancer of le Sserafirm due to the fact that she has ballet background. When will people realize ballet dancing is completely different from idol dancing, the same thing happens with Twice's 'mina.' They're both good dancers, but are they the best in their group. The answer is not really. But I will give credit where it's due, it's not Kazuha’s fault. As the majority of Gen 4 group clearly suffers the same or similar thing. Like IVE for example, Liz is the only member with actual and consistent support. Yujin to an extent can have support, but it's extremely shallow and inconsistent so I would rarely call it support if I'm being brutally honest. This is why K-pop entertainment companies need to work on their idol's vocal, dance, and rapping skills more instead of just rushing and hurrying their debut. (I am not a Kazuha hater, she's actually my bias along with yunjin in le sserafirm, so don't @ me).
Yeah Kazuha should vocally train more together with Sakura. But honestly SouMu got a jackpot in her since they got a funny and visually very pretty member added to the fact that she was a legit ballerina (unlike mina who has quit long before she got scouted) that they milked a lot during their debut year, kinda distracting people from the Garam situation. And I don't think she is the main dancer, I think that position goes to Eunchae.
@@Tenshikichi1 fr! I think people really underestimate Eunchae ability due to the fact that she’s the maknae in Le Sserafirm. She’s literally the 3rd best vocalist in the group, which is incredible considering her age and is probably one of the best dancers in the group along with Chaewon.
I agree that the "did ballet = main dancer" thing is usually kind of inaccurate, but to say Kazuha "did ballet when she was younger" is a huge understatement. She was on the preprofessional track at the Dutch National Ballet Academy. Her situations is light years apart from Mina's., and if we consider every style, she is undeniably the best dancer in Le Sserafim.
@@KPOPDanceDeepDives ehh in terms of idol dancing, Kazuha is abit weak. Whereas Eunchae and Chaewon movements are very clean and executed well. But honestly there’s not really a bad or weak dancer in Le Sserafirm, but Kazuha movements are abit more messier and stiffer then the other members.
It was only said by the fans. And that too in the beginning of their debut. She was never stated as a main dancer of the group officially. They only make use of her flexibility time to time but thats it. Nowadays, People always say that Chaewon is the best dancer among them.
I really enjoyed this video. I'm glad there are people speaking up on the lack of vocal training in idols. As an older k-pop fan I'm not coming home from school and binging music show performances all day. I'm commuting, running errands, working and I have my music on in the background. I need the music to sound good, and the people making it to sound good. I hope companies realize that the music really is the most important thing here and what keeps fans coming back. It's why shows like Dingo's Killing Voice/Verse, are so popular. A group just has to stand there and sing...live. No costumes, no crazy makeup, no choreo. Vocals. Thats literally all we need. And if they can do that well it's the ultimate flex for the group and the fandom.
You are a brave, brave man, but I agree with you on all of them. Some have gotten worse if anything and it's because the company have forced them to sing in areas they're not comfortable in with bad technique. Worried about the long-term health of some of these singers.
Bruh the amount of time I got labeled as a hater for not enjoying Jimin's or Bts's songs is unbeliveable but that was my point all along. There's so much tension even I can feel the struggle when he was singing. Therefore what's really infruating you know? This guy is a fine ass dancer and an exeptional performer but his people wanna serve 'jimin vocal king' to the table so bad but I ain't eating a bit of it
I understand your point perfectly. Overall, BTS's vocals are not great, but not having an amazing vocal doesn't mean having a bad vocal, they are average. The biggest problem here is how their songs simply don't match the vocals, they are demanding a type of voice/range that they clearly don't have, in every live performance it's clear how forced and strained their voices are being. The most frustrating thing is that you can show that you have a good vocal without making high notes or falsetto and it seems the producers at HYBE can't understand that. KAI and Taemin are examples that you can be a good dancer/performer and still bring a good song and show a good vocal, and both here have a different tone of voice and don't have such a great vocal range. (english is not my first language, so I'm sorry for the confusing grammar.)
@@stress7561BTS are critically acclaimed vocalists and have been praised about their vocals from actual professionals and legends in the music industry. Because they are unique vocalists. JK has the best vocals that are suited to pop, Jimin has vocals that are way unique for low IQ kpoppies to understand, v has jazz vocals and Jin is labeled the silver voice for a reason. Just say you know nothing about vocals and music and you are a kpoppie used to listening to manufactured puppets on stage with meaningless dated recycled construction noises and go.
@@_dont_mind_metrue. As much as I love him and SHINee, I was really puzzled about him debuting solo. But that man has improved fr he even opened up about getting more vocal lessons after his solo debut.
Is it that many though? Aside from the obvious case that is Taemin, the only idol that i can think of right now is Moonbyul. A lot of these "weak vocalist" idols are either just got vocally worse or stay in the same category.
I'm surprised you only mentioned jay and jungwon and didn't include the rest of the group. especially niki, sunghoon and Jake. they all need vocal lessons badly
@@MMDGabrielLMAO yeah and fans tryna defend them… I think enhypen (except heeseung and sunoo) isnt confident in their voice while no backtrack is playing bc their voices are strained as hell 😳😳 they need to get lessons ASAP
honestlyyyy! one of the reasons why i can't really get into them is because i'm a sucker for good vocal performances, and, well, they're not really vocally impressive especially live. they should've been trained longer before being put in I-LAND. it's a shame that nowadays, entertainment companies (even the biggest and richest ones) are all about popularity and visuals as long as they could instantly generate money from them. it's disappointing.
@@KatarzynaLisowska-lc2gq I'm not a trained vocalist or vocal coach, just a k-pop stan and choir kid, but I think his nasality could be his biggest struggle. It seems hard for him to support and hold some notes, and I think (???) it's because of how strained his voice seems.
Jimin overhyped by his fans but this is the reality! The way the company and his fans goes as far as deleting every poor vocal performances vid he ever have online is telling alot!! He is not who he portraits to be...he needs vocal lessons!
I'm sorry that is what Blank Pink did with Jennie and a lot of BP performances. Hybe never did that. You have 10 plus years and lot of footage on youtube to proof that Jimin is amazing.
gotta agree with you on chaeyoung. twice is my ult and i saw her solo live in LA and i was a little disappointed just because she wasn't clear and it almost seemed like she lacked confidence which is sad bc i know she wrote the song herself. i really hope she improves well because she's a hard worker and an artist!
@kellyb7561 Yikes, should've traded it in for a Nayeon solo show. If they even do that for her. She probably doesn't have time for that solo tour. Honestly, out of all of Twice, I still think Nayeon is clearly the #1 singer there and does definitely deserve her own solo tour. She speaks and understands good English, she just pretends not to sometimes because she doesn't want to have to think and then be awkward on stage. Momo and Mina both either do really good or really sings off-key. I'm not the best singer, I'm a drummer first so I understand rhythm and timing to hit notes in a certain way, but even I know that these people all need lessons and HYBE doesn't want to pay for it. If you are a welder and work for a company, and you go to your boss and ask them for something that you need for the job, and they say no, then you go and get that from somewhere else yourself usually to finish that job. Well, it's similar in this instance. They gotta go get the coach or teacher to help them get better. At least to be more comfortable in their own voices. Kazuha and Eunchae both, I've noticed, seem to either be really pitchy or really flat. That's one of three things here: A lack of training, a lack of attention to their own voices and abilities, or, it is a lack of tone perception. I think for Eunchae it is definitely the last one. She seems to be unable to understand her own pitch or the tone. That is basically textbook definition of tone deaf. She would have to start with a good coach on just the fundamentals and just on how to understand tone and notes first. Then they would go from there.
watched BTS singer Jimin's encore performance when my friend send me that...Im Not a Kpop fan but get really shocked...He needs vocal lessons seriously...Came to know he has been a singer for about 10 years...But literally its very pathetic...usually western or local singers sings perfectly without ear monitor after 10+ years even if its damaged they will cover the performance in most professional way...But here that was not ear montor problem...He completely went off- key notes to sing.... If its a 1 year old singer ok we can say yes its lack of practice...But here its unbelievable with 10 years of experience still sings in off-key is something not good...Later heard Set me free and LC..His dance was good but singing its not upto the mark...That songs were heavily support on autotune and high backing vocals.. He needs vocal lessons in a broad way
No need for aggression. If you only know that video of jimin singing then you can’t determine whether he is bad or good. At the video you watched there was technical difficulties going on and his ear piece wasn’t working and he couldn’t hear himself. But no excuses, he does need to improve his vocals. He is good and skilled at singing but his very falsetto and nasal voice is kinda forced. Either him or his company forces his voice to be like that. He should probabaly stop forcing it or he could damage his vocal cords. I hope he improves.
@@Ddaengfilmslike agree let's not forget the times where he really did a good job but also there should be constructive criticism that he should improve.
i think chaeyoung has great potential. if she does start using her vocals more, then i hope she recognizes that she'll need more vocal lessons or practice.
I really hate the excuse of being nervous, and I know Chaeyoung isn’t a skilled singer, but she was definitely very nervous during all of her solo performances during TWICE’s tour in light of her scandal. I can’t even imagine how she managed to get on the chair with all the spotlight on her wondering what the people in the crowd thought of her. I won’t support her entirely on the matter, but she was definitely nervous as hell
@@victjsofjsmdngorI agree with you. I saw twice at MetLife and during chae’s solo, I thought of the scandal, so I’m guessing thousands of other people were thinking the same thing. The scandal was still fresh on peoples minds during the first leg of their tour, so I imagine she was so nervous. I do think she has a nice voice and could be great if she was more confident
That’s my huge gripe with Kpop. A lot of companies value looks over talent. Sure other things like being a good dancer is a good skill set to have, buts the vocals is the skill that will elongate their careers. That’s why groups like exo, super junior, mamamoo, apink, RV, etc last so much longer. So while they may not be able to dance as complex vs when they were 20, they still have the vocal skill set.
ARMY here! Thank you for speaking on Jimin's voice honestly but also with respect. Jimin definitely has a bit to go when it comes to vocal technique but he's definitely aware of his flaws. After his solo debut, he said that he became even more aware of the areas where he was lacking. When you're a part of the group you may not get a sense of how you do individually until you go it on your own. So in one of the last lives he did, he talked about how he's been going back to the basics when it comes to training which I presume means his dance and singing skills. He's a hard worker and he's constantly working on improving and being better and although he may not be as good as other singers I think that he does the best he can with what he has and I'm confident that he will continue to improve given his work ethic and self-awareness!
@@Lmm1310all bts members have good vocals except him bts vocal line jungkook,jin and V are so good so the only one need training i think is him he always cracks when he singing live
And whose fault is it that he didn't get vocal lessons? Big Hit. He wanted vocal lessons. He even sat in on the other members vocal lessons and then practiced on his own after. I don't get why he didn't get vocal lessons and the others did. It was so unfair to him. And then he was forced to sing all the high notes in the background too without proper technique.
I think Lisa is more focused on dancing, performing and rapping since she's a main rapper and dancer but I agree as a fan I'd like to hear more of her singing because she's not bad at all. Edit: I get it she's not officially the main rapper of the group, I wrote main rapper because she raps a lot so pls stop floading the comments saying she's not the main rapper I KNOW IT.
i would say she has a focus mainly in dance and performance. she doesn't tend to rap a ton either. she doesn't write and she hasn't improved as a rapper. i was kind of shocked at how much she hasn't worked in her voice though because she has specifically said multiple times that she wants to sing better. but she may also be restricted by her company not just anxious and slow on improvement. i think she knows her strong point and that's her comfort zone and it can understandably be difficult to step outside of your comfort zone especially when the world is watching but blackpink have the unique ability to have tons of time to themselves so her improvement doesn't have to be in front of everyone. i hope she does get better. she has the best solo potential after blackpink but people will get bored of her if she can only bring one thing to the table.
Lisa is a lead rapper not main. And over the years her tone in rapping didnt change but now in ranking videos the creator says she is interchangeable with jennie in rapping. (But i dont think so she has improved as she has only one tone throughout her rapping and she cant change her tone just like jennie). Off the point jennie is the main rapper.
I mean to say jennie has better flow and tone as compared to lisa. She is very much versatile as well as she has varied tone like powerful tone, soulful tone and softer tone. She also knows different rapping style as compared to lisa and she raps faster and more professionally than lisa. That's my point. Hope you got it.
@@adiuraj2296 Gotcha! Yeah in my opinion neither of them have really exhibited that. Especially since the styles you’ve been mentioned have shown throughout for both. They are pretty interchangeable in the grand scheme of things. With Jennie’s tone being deeper that lends to her having a darker tone but the style and technique at which she addresses her raps are virtually consistent throughout the years. I’ve never heard a verse from either of them and thought "wow, that’s different from the last 8 other raps” the cadences might vary slightly depending on the songs rhythm, but for each of the girls verses they never go past a bar or two with variations in style.
Some think that his fried his vocal chords due to being forced to sing higher than his natural voice for prolonged periods of time without enough technical training.
@@blablablaj infrequent smoking or vaping often doesn't cause vocal damage , in fact , they injure the lungs more . Jimin isn't a chain smoker or something.
I sincerely wish for all seven members of enhypen to get EVEN better vocal training as they have improved in these months shockingly fast and I love the different dynamics in their voices and would love for them to reach their potential
I'm glad we are at a point now where we can acknowledge how bad Jimin's technique is because back when I tried getting into BTS his grating singing was the main reason i gave up on it, I could not deal with it.
To be honest I was holding my breath when I saw Jimin in the thumbnail but there was no need to. You were respectful and didn't make any unnecessary remarks about him. Thank you for covering Jimin. I actually hope you cover the rest of the BTS vocal line.
True after all the hate he gets veiled as "criticism" I was worried but i didn't need to be. This is what constructive criticism sounds like I agree with everything the creator said. I hope jimin improves tremendously in the future because I love his voice i just want the best for him. Edit: after reading through some of these comments I was right to dread this video, although the creator was respectful and actually provided constructive criticism, some people just wanna hate on jimin and has got the licence to do so now. Pity these people can't live without hate in their lives.
@@Musicgeek97 Well said! What truly made me fearful was all the comments under his community post about this video. Everyone was like 'Army is going to come for you', 'Be prepared' things like that. I think it just created unnecessary fear and anxiety about the video. You don't know how relieved I was when he started off with 'Jimin is a passionate performer'. I'm glad he didn't overlook all of his other good qualities because a performance and artist is made up of many things not only good singing. Oh no, I refrain from reading too many comments just for my mental peace. It's a bit sad but we only have ourselves, so we can only rely on ourselves. I even got a rude comment about Jungkook's vocals being off but the person couldn't even support their claims. Just ignore them. They're just empty cans making a lot of noise.
@@laura79613well they aren't wrong that's what ur fandom does..and it happening as we speak and for a week now ~ they disrespected SEUNGKWAN'S vocals and saying he can't sing live but when we posted jimins video they went FERAL ~ must be nice playing victim all the time .. now they are trending vile hashtags about SVT members and editing and posting carats personal photos and mocking them w words and editing ...what a nice armshit fandom comfort urself like that 😊
Kudos to you for making two parts of this video. I mean k-pop fans are scary I would never have the courage to make something like this if I were in your place.
I wish u could talk about jimin's vocal regression over the years and go over his older singing clips (pre-2018) just to compare. His voice always had a bit of tension in it but it has gotten much more unstable in recent years.
His singing style affected his vocal health hence you see it as a “regression “. As he has said he’s working on his vocals , we are all waiting and wishing him all the best in his training(vocally)
No, admin doesn't need to do such a video. On the contrary, YOU can choose to talk about that right here in the comment section. This is your opportunity to go off! Admin gave you the Jimin critique video like you wanted, now you want ANOTHER video that shows Jimin in worse light. Why? Were you hoping he would be more brutal in his critique of Jimin and now you want another episode to go harder on him? What you are asking has already been addressed in *this* video.
I think Chaeyoung has potential. Like she‘s underdeveloped but with lessons and training she could become better, cause something is there. Same for Mina. In general, JYPE should invest more into TWICE’s vocals. Jihyo, Jeongyeon and Nayeon are doing fine, but I think they could also have some, so that their skills become even stronger. Cause I‘d love to see where they‘re all at a point to sing encore stages just decently and comfortably enough without struggling. Cause like Sana and Momo struggle quite a lot, which is sad. Cause the sub-vocalists could all improve to become more decent.
Chaeyoung has a lot of potential despite supposedly being the main rapper. She has shallow support compared to the others though inconsistent, she can definitely improve & become a better vocalist if they focus on her training & let her sing more. Twice in general has problems with confidence so the solo stages definitely will help them be more comfortable despite the mistakes, they'll learn how to control any issues.
I remember way back, people would shit on me for saying Jimin needs vocal lessons. I pretty much said, similarly, that he sounds too pitchy and when he's trying to hit high notes the technique isn't there.
To be exact, almost all hybe artist needs further vocal lessons, otherwise they might waste their potential and opportunity to improve. But I highly appreciate and respect SVT's vocal especially Seungkwan and DK.
Someone said that hybe don't provide singing lessons when they just see the potential of idol they leave him/her. its your head ache to improve or get hate by netizens
Having tight schedules is not a reason not to have vocal lessons or practice. Even the Great Celine Dion's said that she still have a vocal trainer and still gets lessons.
ikr? Baekhyun started a twitter space just two days ago on the way back home saying he just finished vocal lessons at 2AM local time. If you REALLY want to, you can.
@@neomuneochicken4585 indeed! they have the money and resources. All they have to do is show up to their vocal trainers. This is also one way of taking care of their voices and throat as well as improvement of their singing ability
i wouldnt compare them with western singers. like singing is the only skill they have, need and should master. if they didnt go to vocal lesson, how they gonna survive? idols on the other hand, at first incharged of certain skills but then expected to be excellent in every areas. i would rather compare them with other idols who managed to arrange their schedule with diff lessons, dance, vocal, rap equally and effectively. eg : exo members, red velvet (from what i heard). exo specifically improved in singing plus dancing as you can see in their creamsoda dance practice. so comparing with western singers is weird.
The way some people defending idols by blaming their company 😭 I mean baekhyun take personal lessons for vocals. Other idols are rich enough too to get vocal lessons but they just did care and some of them are not even meant to be singer no matter how much they practice like sakura etc
Like she has the potential! I think besides the vocal line, she and Mina have the most potential when it comes to improving in their vocal abilities. Tzuyu is following after
fr tho! Her, Mina and Tzuyu have promising registers but they aren’t that consistent. If they were under SM, they would prob have just as much support as 3Mix has.
@@pochaccito.13mix is so funny bc those girls still seem like they have untapped potential. They’re good right now but I imagine w an SM vocal trainer a LOT of their flaws could be fixed and put them on like Wheein-Hwasa levels of singing. Jeongyeon is afraid of her falsetto and head voice (which affects her mix and by extention her general range), so she’d need that taught to her. Nayeon can get screamy to my understanding and incredibly tight, but her voice itself goes high so to me it seems like a placement and projection issue with her. I have no idea w Jihyo but idk I’m sure there’s room to grow for someone so dedicated to their craft like her.
I really hope enhypen will take some vocal lessons in the future cause I can see they're not confident in their singing at all. Except Heeseung and Sunoo the other members have little to no vocal skills. Jay has improved a lot though and I appreciate that he always tries to sing live
I’m sorry but Jimin singing is kind of embarrassing. I didn’t realize how awful he sounds when he is singing live. I guess auto tune really helps him out in all their songs.
EXO Xiumin once said: Singers must be able to sing. Xiumin is not the main vocalist in EXO, but I'm sure Xiumin could become the main vocalist if he debuted in another company. And there are several people above who occupy the main dancer position and I have to admit they are very uncomfortable with their voices, but some people may not care that they are from the 2 groups that have the most fans in the world. But when talking about main dancers who can sing, there are only 2 names that I recognize, SHINee Taemin and Red Velvet Seulgi.
As someone who always consider idols as a singer not just a performer I wish they can sing. It doesn't have to be like the lead vocal or even main vocal. As long as they're not singing off key, not shaky and pleasant to hear is enough for me. Because they already have their position in the group so it's still okay
I’m a bit shocked hearing these popular singers’ vocals, especially Jimin (Since he’s in a famous group I expected more from him. I’ve only watched him dance). If they know they are lacking, as paid professionals, improving their vocals should be important. I really hope they do improve.
Yea, Jimin's voice was getting weaker over the years. But he said in his production diary that he was going back to the basics of vocal training and getting better.
i really respect how you give fair and constructive criticism without using the opportunity to bash on the idols! as an engene since pre-debut i will say some members definitely lacked in vocals compared to others, and it's to be expected as most of them had very short training periods before debuting. however i do think the members have all shown tremendous growth in their (now) 3 years in the industry. you can tell they've definitely been taking lessons and have been getting a lot of help from heeseung as well. theyre more familiar with the basics and are starting to get more and more comfortable with their singing abilities. i think jay especially has improved a lot this year and has even begun to find his vocal identity (ex: his cover of dry flower with yuuri and enhypens anniversary video titled 'highway'). of course there is always room for improvement, but enhypen are very passionate for their job and always talk about their crave and need for wanting to be better artists. i hope to see the day where they can all be respected as some of 4th gens best vocalists :)
As an ARMY I have to admit Jimin isnt sounding so good live nowadays. But I also dont think he is a bad vocalist 100% of the time. Older performances give other insights. He had a bit of an edgier delivery then. As for the rest, I dont know their work so I cant comment
He's been deleting comments off his social media that were telling him to get a vocal coach to improve guess he wants to destroy his voice it's his choice
Ouch. 😓 Also props to giving dancers/rappers a bit more of a break. I don’t think the ppl who give you a hard time realize you use examples where an idol is singing while standing in place.
thanks for the second part! and thanks for adding the group names :) I was so glad when I discovered encores after getting into kpop. some groups/soloists sound even better live than recorded, and some should better never win awards to not sing encores afterwards.
Jimin did his singin style for years like that n its sound bad n annoying, its must be hard to fix cz he used to do it for year its kind of muscle memory imo
this video further proves that 90% of kpop stans know absolutely NOTHING about singing, cuz i swear i've seen many fans out there say stuff like lisa or jimin are as great as main vocal level but ofc similar can be said about the rest of this list especially the enhypen boys 💀 and it's like, ok i get it! yall love these idols! but you should be able to compliment them for things they are actually good at instead of something they are *not*, no? 🤷♀️
not surprised, there is another channel known to criticise/analyse kpop idols dancing and then you got the amount of braindead "fans" who are too sensitive to the idea that an artist can improve in the comments.... like yall who are like that are ridiculous, really shows that youve never practiced anything art related yourself cause any artist (drawing, singing, dancing etc.) knows you will never be perfection... it really infuriates me as a muscian and a drawer that there are people who believe kpop idols are perfect gods that can never do wrong 😭😭
K-pop is the definition of “don’t judge a book by its cover” but in a bad way. Good image on the outside, fucked up in the inside. At this point, they are just making some idols for some cult or something
With Jungwon I feel like its a prime example of when you debut someone still going through puberty. Given how much their voice is changing it could become dangerous if its not mentored properly.
FRRR, like comparing debut ni-ki or even i-land ni-ki with ni-ki from criminal love or blossom… it’s just hell and heaven. i wish for them to rerelease their older albums with upgraded vocals, because i CANNOT listen to flicker it’s like torture, but the song is so good tho. 😭😭
Fr im so glad that i got proper vocal training when i was 8 and i still continue it i was able to ultimately develop my voice and all my Registers really well (i do classical indian singing)
Bruh is it a hybe thing to have idols with bad vocals? and they even get away with it since a lot of their groups are successful. I blame the fans. They should have higher expectations for their idols. Another hybe GG just came out and they literally have more untalented vocalists on that one and they charted higher than some groups who had more talent than they have. wake up people uphold this music genre higher. Bad vocals kills kpop
The fact that kpop fans never want to criticize their idols make it difficult for idols to realize they need improvement, and it does not encourage the companies to put money into vocal lessons
For Enhypen's jungwon and jay I agree that their vocals isn't the best cuz they didn't get to train for a long period of time before debuting + the clips on the video are 1-2 year old. I think they've got much better now from what I've seen from the latest tour and last comeback. For me, they are one of the few groups that always keeps improving
@@EverRoxas honestly i ult a hybe group and i'm well aware they aren't amazing vocalists. but i actually like their vocals just fine and think they are improving beyond the company's plans for them. and i do value good performance over vocals honestly.... i've been a kpop fan for a long time and feel like i've seen it all. so i know how my ult group compares to others and they're still my favorite. that being said any criticism is not gonna be well received by other fans so i keep my mouth shut lol
Their priorities lie in making money . At the tender age of 16/17 , when Jimin was a child , instead of giving him vocal lessons he was trained to expose his body and dance seductively in front of a camera while pressuring him to lose weight. People might say how Hybe treated their artists so well, but that's codswallop ( as Hagrid would say) .🤷
If you do a part 3, could you include some of the Stray Kids lineup? I really enjoy their songs, and I know they have a more emphasized focus on rap, but their vocals (aside from Seungmin) could use serious training. Don't get me wrong, they are all very talented-- the blame falls squarely on JYP for not developing them enough (I have heard Seungmin takes private lessons, which would explain why he has continued to improve over the years). I.N. is an obvious pick due to him being a part of the vocal line, but also having multiple areas that could use some further development. I would love to see Lee Know take lessons as well, but for a different reason-- he has some of the most potential I've ever seen in an idol (his tone, range, and vocal colors are actually incredible considering he took zero voice lessons prior to debuting with SKZ) and I would love to see what he could truly do with actual training.
I heard that Seungmin also takes I.N. and Lee Know to his vocal lessons which could explain why all three sound better from their previous comebacks. Still, all of SKZ could use some vocal lessons to improve and eventually get better.
Omg you’re so right!!!! I’m not so familiar with vocals or anything but it’s clear most of the members need vocal lessons. Seungmin and Han imo ate good. Chan and I.N are decent but could still get proper training. Changbin is alright but since he’s a rapper I don’t think too much of it. Imo ( I’ve been scared to say this cause you know how stays get defensive- with gods reason ofc sometimes) but danceracha need vocal lessons asap. I could give hyunjin and Felix a pass since they mainly rap but lee know…. Hmm
No hate to lee know whatsoever. I’m fact i really like his vocal tone and never really paid attention or was bothered by his vocals. That was until the 5 star done tours where he performed limbo….. like he’s not a bad singer but you can CLEARLY hear him straining and it’s so sad to me like??? I really need him to improve cause limbo is such a good songs but his vocals are not it
stylistic singing is only good when it's done properly. to be stylistic you need to have technique down. like with every other skill. you build on the general rules and then you find your uniqueness to add.
Nope. If your technique is at a basic level sometimes style can elevate it. The issue is, these idols can barely stay on note, so obviously any style would make it worse.
Listen, why yall keeping the argument so intense in the comments. Back to basic, a singer should be able to sing. Kpop idol is a singer. They make music. They release songs. For us to listen.
what shocks me in twice is that they have JEONGYEON in the group yet their producers tend to give Mina, Sana, Chaeyoung and sometimes even Tzuyu more lines than her like whaaaat?
Sehun, Lucas, Hyoyeon, Jaemin, Jeno and I could keep telling names, actually SM was the first company to put visuals over talent back then and putting the vocal responsability on just one or two members☠️
@@levitatingstan6526 Not to sound aggressive but like no shit these main dancers and main rappers you just named cant sing they're not VOCALISTS lmao. The idols being named in this video have vocal positions, none of the idols you named have a main, lead, sub, or just vocalist position so I'm just confused.
Dang, what the hell were they doing as trainees for years (especially at HYBE)? Was it tiktok training at 8am, aegyo coaching at 10, applied parasocialism at 12 and then call it a day?
I feel like Lisa has so much potential, but she’s just never gave the chance to focus on it so she became too uncomfortable to try it compared to dancing
it’s so funny that kpop companies always try to push the “my idols are filled with passion for singing and they sacrificed their life to be an idol” yet it’s so rare to see idols actually improving their skills throughout their career. its like the lessons stop after their training days. most of them sing exactly the same way (skill wise) they did when they started, if anything the kids that were 12 went trough puberty but now they don’t fit their song’s pitch.
Yet Jungwon and Jay are the most stable vocalists in the group and do sound good when they're singing songs that fit their own tones and that they're more comfortable with, like 'seattle' or 'all i wanna do' for Jungwon or 'dried flowers' for Jay. I don’t think they're bad at all and they’re definitely improving as time goes on as well. edit: also they both sound beautiful in their latest album and in the still monster live band performance
@@yixinghasmeshookistg814 well heeseung is the main vocalist and is the most vocally talented but if you watch mr removed videos jungwon and jay have been the most stable since debut they're always singing live
@@lost4tseas mr removed is not reliable, it's machine generated. if you want to know who can actually sing live and is stable, listen or just observed who always sing acapella or without backtrack during concerts, guestings, radio shows. even during their comeback showcase they make that one member sing their lines cos they cant do it live.
With how much money HYBE is earning nowadays, it wouldn't actually hurt for them to find good and capable vocal coaches that can help their artists improve.
Absolutely. But I think the problem is that when the group debuts, their schedules are so packed that they don't have time for that anymore. Jimin actually complained way way back, that he would like to work on his vocals, but he is not in a position where he can receive vocal lessons. The msuic shows and similar performances, when idols don't sing live these days, do not help them improve at all.
They did when the idols were still in training, but now it's come the idols' decision whether they want it or not. I heard there's one male idol (i forgot who was it) he wasn't satisfied with his vocals, so he get some vocals lessons
they won't ever be improved if music shows continue to allow LAR/lipsync @@rin55
right
@@pocky11stickmaybe you're talking about dk he is one of the best vocalist In 3rd gen with hard work, he was told he wasn't fit for main vocal I think and that helped him improved tremendously to being one of the best
Few weeks ago Xiumin got hate for saying that IDOLS SHOULD BE ABLE TO SING FIRST cuz at the end of the day people listen to their music. This got many fans of particularly these groups offended. We can clearly see why.
Yes, watching this video makes Xiumin’s case 💯
that explains a lot 😂
He said it nicely btw not like that😂
waitttt where
@@21jd_it was in a episode of the survival show that sm made to choose the next nct subunit
“Weak vocal technique will turn style into a cage and passion into pain” very, very well said 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
It's funny I came across your comment at the exact time he was saying it in the video 😂
@@shaelizadeelizabeth3027same 😂
yeah. i hope hybe improves that. ig it’s like a personal choice. like jungkook who practice a lot on his vocals and vocal stability while running. but at least hybe doesn’t lip sync every show 😔
this line was iconic tbh
@@mademioselle7729 Whitney Houston said it best they found out that she could sing, and her mother taught her how to sing
People needs to realize having a UNIQUE VOICE doesn't mean GOOD AT SINGING
Yes and even the voice it's not top tier,you can always have more techniques to develop it to good direction
Thissss
This needs to be pinned comment 🙏
in fact there’s a lot of vocalist with unique tones but is still technically good like luna and hyolyn so it is possible to sing good without compromising technique
@@altaircainagree a lot of western artist had a unique voice but their technique is pretty good
Baekhyun is an amazing singer and he's still taking singing classes
That's bcuz he's passionate about his job !
I think other idols should learn from him
We shouldn't always blame the company! If the idol wants to improve they can take classes themselves!
Trueeee
Correct.
they have to have time.
absolutely correct
Came to comment that! Consistent work makes a world of difference.
I think one of the most problematic things about kpop's singing is that somehow having a high register has become 'more impresive' than having good vocal technique. Also, agengies look more for stage performance and presence than vocals. It is truly sad how what you sing has become more important than how you sing it.
bring back the mid range has been my motto for several years when it comes to kpop. companies focus way too much on high notes and lack creativity in utilising the natural mid range of majority (tbh all) of artists
exactly! idk why kpop does this... every other musical industry i know is always dictated by the country's most common used register... like most brazillian female singers are contralto, most canadian male singers are tenor etc... and that's what works best. if korea focuses more on idols being better at dancing and performing then they should really hop off the high register
i wish mid-registers were more common in kpop. not only does it sound good and provide some vocal diversity, but it's probably much more comfortable for some idols.
This is sometimes also a thing in the western market. All the girls with lower registers either aren't as popular as, say Ariana, Demi, etc. Or they're very popular, but they rap way more than they sing. I also think companies do this because they believe higher ranges sell more. But it's kinda true. There are lots of fans who rank people's vocals not by their technique, but whether or not they can sing high notes. I used to see tons of people say that Selena Gomez couldn't sing (if you don't like her voice, that's perfectly fine) because she couldn't hit high notes, they didn't go by tone or technique at all.
Also, I apologize if this doesn't make a ton of sense, I'm very sleepy, and my brain is trying hard to form sentences rn.
High register AND good vocal technique exist in SM entertainment. Look at Jonghyun, Ryeowook or Kyuhyun.
I don't understand why hype idols lack so much in singing like you have the money to train your idols ,where is the problem ?😟
Hybe don't invest great vocal coach that focus on technique, all they is mostly they are train their idol/trainee to sing with a style rather than technique, if an idol can sing high and a have a nice tone they rather let them do what they want unless if they asked for proper lesson.
hybe isn't a label. that's why. this is an issue with individual labels that reside under hybe. singing has never been a focus in kpop that's why.
Good enough, not great is a motto of many companies.
Kpop is generally very performance and visual based and especially with hybe idols the focus seems to lay more on dancing than anything else which works but well doesn’t do anything for them whenever discussions like these come up :/
The thing that gets me is that idols were trainees for like their ENTIRE teenage years (sometimes longer) wth were they doing all that time if not working on their voices
Even Byun Baekhyun takes vocall lessons so yeah some should consider attending too
I'm not a pro vocal teacher, but yeah, i have to admit that Kazuha's vocals are unironically sounds strange to meーrapping and vocal wise, and i can't help everytime her parts came around made me go "okay, what was that?". Also for me, Jimin's vocals come off too pitchy, even chipmunk'ish sometimes.
Kazuha only trained for months and i think her agency focused her training in dancing and performing.
@@saiki.k__8144 And yet she still gets more lines than Sakura & Eunchae who trained longer, even though she isn't technically better than them in any means?
@@GamingBrownii dont get that too. sakura not only trained longer, my girl has YEARS IN THE INDUSTRY and gets the least lines in the group. i get her tone isn't matching with the groups image like yunjin is or have chaewon level stability but goddamn have some respect at least 😭😭
chipmunkish HAHHHAHA
@@sakaom bingo! Sakura, Eunchae and even Chaewon most of the time don't suit the image (sound-wise) that the group is aiming for, in Eunchae's case it's probably because she's still young and learning how to impose her voice, Chaewon can get away with it because she's really skilled and knows how to work with her tone but Sakura only knows how to do a single limited style of singing and can't manipulate her voice at all, Kazuha is a very similar case to her, but she's lucky that her natural tone already matches with the group's intended sound, which is why she ends up getting more lines than Sakura.
as someone who used to be a predebut army, jimin;s case is actually quite heartbreaking to me. there's even a youtube video where he was extremely upset with himself and wanted to take vocal lessons, but with the intensity of bts's schedules for the past decade it wasnt possible. because of his vocal tone, the producers would always make him scream in the back of a lot of bangtan's songs and somewhere during 2017/18 his voice just couldn't take it anymore. i don't know enough abt vocals to say if the damage is irreparable, but there's something almost croaky abt his voice when it wasnt like that in the past. he's the prime example of why hybe's "self-teaching" method of training (apparently they lock trainees into tiny individual practice rooms for 6-10 hrs and expect them to self-improve on dance/singing/rap according to jake) is bogus. i understand the company is more dance/performance centric but the vocal health of their artists is also important
Wow that explains why some idols have trained for years but still can't master the basics... ypu need professional guidance to improve. I bet there are a lot of companies that take that approach because it's cheapest. And then charge the idols money bc trainee debt. Wow what a scam
😊
that "self-teaching" explains a lot. it's confirmed that most K-pop agency doesn't provide their idols with a professional vocal coach. I feel sorry for those idols who broke their vocal cords because no one told them to sing with healthy technique @@bvnditbul7039
@@bvnditbul7039 exactly!! hybe deadass has a class about music diversity where they force their trainees to listen to a variety of different styles of music which don't get me wrong, instilling passion and work ethic in your trainees is important but it's crazy that basic vocal skill is completely overlooked. it's a shame because they actually have one of the industry's best dance training program where even the 'bad' dancers in their 4th gen groups have a decent grasp on basics.
now this self teaching is kinda crazy. like yeah, you can kinda teach yourself some things, but you'll only get so far without professional guidance. especially since hybe tends to give their groups a lot of vocally challenging songs.
wth the self teaching is wild af
jimin case is one of the saddest i've ever witnessed, it reminds me of park bom's: great potential wasted by lack/wrong vocal technique (pushed by the company).
Omg Park Bom 😢 it makes me very sad what she experienced.
Honestly most of the bts member..
@@hanjesse31 yes, They are good performers and I like their rappers but they use too much autotune because vocally they are too far behind.
@@Andy-dk5gc No they don't you clearly haven't heard them live. BTS is one of the very few groups who always sing live while performing complex choreo they literally never lip-sync or use autotune just backing vocals like all artists do and they can sing. They always get complimented on their vocals by vocal coaches and professional artists I feel like people just made up this false assumption and ran with it
@@sarahomar8351 or, hear me out, people have ears and brains capable of forming an independent opinion
I hate to say this cause Le sserafim is one of my ult groups, but there was definitely a vocal hole that was left when Garam left the group. Garam, Chaewon, and Yunjin were definitely carrying that group vocally
Exactly, like HYBE *needs* to pay for vocal training with the amount of money they make
Garam that’s a joke right bc she couldn’t hold a tune either 😭 she was just another eunchae in terms of talent
@@jessyn.2591she still at least had some degree of support going on, more or less like Eunchae, her in the group only solidified the vocal line, that was before she left, I mean yk how the J-girlies are
garam's line in their debut album is elite ✨
@@jessyn.2591 another eunchae term is interesting but nah
As an Engene, I would like to say all Enhypen members need heavy vocal training except maybe Sunoo and Heeseung. Yes, they also need vocal traning but they still hold pretty well on their own. HYBE should really invest some time in their vocals because everything else about them is amazing. Also, I love their vocal tone.
P.S: All of them are young. So, they have got a lot of time to improve and I think they are getting proper vocal training recently. I would really like to see them improve in their upcoming comeback.
Enhypen was vocals training at cjm not hybe.
And they still get voical training from the same vocals coaches
Jogwon was traine at rwb and sm entertainment.
Thankfully their already improving which means vocal training for majority of members must have increased
im a sunoo bias, and i think all of them really need vocal lessons, because while heeseung and sunoo have a decent technique, i feel like they still have a lot of potential and opportunity for growth. heeseung is primarily stylistic and i feel like with proper training he would be able to do what he does now with the back up of technique which would avoid any damage in the long run. for sunoo, who i always exclaim is an underrated vocalist within the group because he doesn't get enough lines to showcase his wide range of skills, he has a lot of potential in different areas like agility, lower register, falsetto, mix, and i think these areas would improve a lot more if he had proper lessons. i think heeseung and sunoo aside from being the only members that have a sense of vocal technique, are the only members with really good musicality and i think they could really become a good vocal duo with some training. the other members as well really have a lot of potential but need A LOT of vocal training too.
0:34 "not every idol needs to be like BAEKHYUN" lmaooo my man being singled out for his vocal skills like yesss WE LOVE THAT
agree sm 😭
literal legend.
No need to be a god like baekhyun or Hui, Jungkook, Jaehwan, or a btob member to be a good singer. It is like plastic surgery everyone would be alike and it is so boring
Indeed not like but atleast in the same level. Atleast novice to pro level.
Not for the fans but for themselves. In the long run proper technique will save their voice
or Solar (Mamamoo)
The worst is that some of them sounded better pre debut.
I recently watched Iland and Jungwon was not an SM main vocalist but he did not strain as much. I think they give him really high parts that force him to sing at the limit of his range.
Yunjin from Lesserafim also sounded better in Produce 48 oddly enough.
I think hybe focuses more on dance and performance rather than vocals
Hybe songs are always high pitched and don't suit the members' vocal tones
Yunjin sounds fantastic…go watch Leemujin service show. She is better now than predebut.
that's what I think...they all sing good tbh...the problem comes in when the agency or even the idols try to sing something that is out of their range
New Jeans and TXT are good live….better than many groups from other big labels. Their Lolapalooza festival performances in Chicago were fantastic. Also Leserafim performance at Grammy museum was pretty good. They’ve improved and tbh, they have the most strenuous choreography for girl groups. I haven’t followed ENHYPHEN so I can’t say. I haven’t watched their other new group either. HYBE is doing things right and that’s why they’re the top label rn.
Having mostly hybe artists here says a lot. They really should STOP the hard dances if they can't hold a note!!! Prioritize vocal lessons, hybe
As an army, I always got bashed for saying jimin will get hurt if he continues like this... I don't have that much knowledge of vocals, but I can clearly see the damage in recent years... please dont neglect jimin's health for your ego if you care about him
He said he’s working on his vocals now (in his production diary), maybe since BTS is on hiatus it’s good for him to take a break and learn how to properly utilise his voice
@@kc87557 I hope so, I really like his tone
How I wish every ARMY has a mindset like yours. I've been saying that Jimin's singing is forced and bad and that he needs a proper vocal training. He has a potential but the company is not investing on correctly using his voice. I ended up being roasted by them and calling me things, saying that I was just hating on Jimin. Like whut?? I respect BTS.
We start singing at 6 in quires and practice with bands and composing etc. That’s why a lot of black people can sing .By the time I was 13 I could already harmonize etc. It’s difficult to start at 13 and become great at vocals
@@KrisBrands I'm always amazed by black ppl's singing ability. Y'all sing so effortlessly but the quality is top-tier.
I love how you don't sugarcoat your points but still remain constructive with your criticisms. You also point out their problem areas which will help them know exactly what to work on to improve.
If they ever see these videos, I hope that they try to take action for themselves.
We need more episodes, keep them coming!
Idols watching a random kpop vocal critic video? Keep dreaming.
@@urhypeboy 🥱😴💤
@@urhypeboy Who knows? Maybe they do, maybe they don't🤷
The other day Xiumin of EXO made the comment of how important singing is in the industry. No matter what that's your bread and butter. No one can ever call you out your name if you have skills. That said, generations are changing and Autotune/AI is glossed over most artists also in the West. Performance across the board is bleak when labels spend no money on artist development or even find a good source to begin with. When EXO says Baekhyun won't stop singing around the dorm or Chen, it's them exercising their vocals every day. They love to sing, it's an extension of them. If you love to sing you must put in the time every day... actors still take acting classes to tap into emotions. The music industry is done for, labels are signing AI artists... why pay for a human who can't sing. Music Appreciation isn't taught anymore so peoples ears are not attuned to what qualifies as quality music or vocals. Cuteness doesn't last forever that's why your skills must come first. New Gen, only a few Kpop artists can walk up on an Apollo stage and make it off safely, individually.
completly agree with you somehow some new generaation or newly debuted groups wether its boy or girl group sadly they dont focus on singing anymore its very rare to find good and developed singers. Specialy new jeans, leserafim, txt, enhypen
Jungkook is now that kpop star who has made it in the west as a superstar. The Times Square and Jimmy Fallon performance showcased excellent live singing and dancing with great breath control. He’s the new global pop star. Forget Chris Brown who can’t sing anyway.
@@gyoriv19NJ and TXT were fantastic live at Lolapalooza. Seventeen is also fantastic live. These HYBE groups sing just fine live and performing.
@@inquisitvem6723 Jungkook is very famous but he's honestly not that good of a singer. He's just okay.
@@ranonampangom2185 he’s a very good singer(vocal coaches have praised his vocals) and fantastic live performer which can’t be said for many kpop idols who are very good singers. It’s one thing to be a good singer an pd another to be a good singer and execute it live consistently along with choreo. He is a global pop star. His Jimmy Fallon and Times Square appearance has taken his status next level.
I'm glad someone addressed jimin finally cuz like, his album is great, but in addition to your great points about pitch and tension, the gritty throat noise he starts all his lines with (which I also found super noticeable in mots7 and be) just does not work (i.e. sound nice) when done that frequently and sounds so painful ;0;
I think you're referring to a vocal fry, which is often a stylistic choice, but I agree that he is danger of damaging his vocal cords
That's when i started to dislike his singing 😢 i love his voice but dislike his style of singing 😢 i hope he's taking lessons he mentioned on suga's show🙏
I'm glad you put rappers in this list because rapping includes some vocal techniques as well specially breathing control, sense of rhythm and pitch.
thats why if we noticed a lot Top Tier Rapper are actually a decent vocalist too like Nicki Minaj, CL...
@@fahmy2351Moonbyul as well
@@fahmy2351 soyeon, hongjoong and han too!
just that tbh others than that it’s okay for me. rappers don’t have to be a decent singer to be able to rap. being a rapper mostly requires your finger to lift a pen
Adding to the list: zico, BI, changbin, Jessi, and more I can't think of rn 🫶
Controversial opinion but can we add Felix to this list? Stays are so blind to his struggling to stay on pitch in both live performances and in the recording booth. Just because he's not a good singer doesn't mean he's not talented, but the "eight all-rounders" thing is such bullshit.
FELIX, sorry for saying this, is mostly being utilized as a sound effect. Not an actual vocal or rap performer.
It is cruel, but also the truth.
He is a singer or a rapper???
Lol let be honest here the only all rounder in Skz is Han, Chan rap in an awkward way, Changbin's vocals are not developed, Lee know's vocals are really bad and he doesn't even rap, Hyunjin's singing voice is a disaster, Seungmin can't rap, I.N is dare I say untalented enough to be compared to the rest and Felix although he is a lead dancer other members dances better than him, can't sing and his rapping is just him using his deep voice while rap talk
He is not a singer and doesn't claim to be one
@@Husseinriyadh88 Just be honest and say you don't like them. Chan raps on par with other groups rappers but he does it rarely and usually in English. If you have 2 excellent and one very good rapper in a kpop group you don't need anymore. We know next to nothing about Changbins vocal abilities but when he sings he sings very well. Han sings better than most main vocalists and rapps better than almost the whole industry. These three are allrounders. Lee Know had developed his vocals immensely and his live singing only gets better. The only ones that can't sing is Felix and Hyunjin - dancers that rap. Two out of eight. All of them can rap on a sh*ty level kpop considers rap. Yes - even Seungmin and I.N.
I remember Jimin in Boy in luv era 2014 and he has stable voice and control that time, sad about what happened to his vocal technique.
Yes it feels like he regressed😢
He didn’t regress. You can produce stable vocals and sing with control using incorrect technique… it’s just not sustainable. Sooner or later you get vocal damage and it can be irreversible.
Here’s an explanation of how that happens physically as someone with a singing and physics background, if you’re interested:
When you scream/strain when you sing, your vocal cords bump against each other forcefully to create sound. Long term what happens is that the friction creates lumps on your vocal cords. Those lumps (frequently called nodules) make it impossible for you to sing certain notes, creating gaps in your vocal range. If you support your singing with air via breath control, your vocal cords don’t sustain damage as the air carries out a larger portion of the vibrations. If you’re also able to tune the exit point of the air and the shape of your mouth, you can even create resonance, which is amplifies your voice. This is how opera singers are able to be so loud.
Singing with correct technique is very difficult for the following reasons:
1. You need a ginormous amount of air to produce sound compared to scream-singing. When I first tried to project my voice using head voice, I needed to use so much air that I felt dizzy. And for K-Pop idols, it’s even harder to get enough air while doing complex choreo.
2. Once you’re able to produce the air, you need to find the resonance. Unfortunately it feels like tuning an instrument blind if you’re unfamiliar with it. It feels like sound is exiting from different parts of your head depending on what pitch you’re singing. This “exit point” is also different for each person.
3. Once you get over points 1 and 2, there’s a mental hurdle. Singing with correct technique feels like the sound is small (even tho the sound itself is actually large). Once you’re used to singing with incorrect technique and gauging ur performance according to how ur vocal cords feel, this feels wrong. Because you’re not supposed to feel anything in your vocal cords with ur singing in correct technique. Also, because the sounds you produce enter both your ears at different times (in contrast to how it enters others’ years simultaneously), what actually sounds good to your audience sounds like crap to you urself.
From a company standpoint, I don’t think developing correct vocal technique is economical, because:
1. Longer time to debut to instill correct singing skills - most k-pop idols have to debut young
2. Probably will need to simplify choreography to make time and space for breathing - not possible with current K-pop trends
3. Why spend so much money and time when you can just squeeze out everything an idol has to offer and then replace them? After all, there are so many people lining up to be idols.
Also, I would like to add that even in the west, it is rare to see pop singers singing in correct technique, partially because of modern techniques like auto tune and microphones. Artists don’t really need correct technique to perform. Also, many western artists have nodules too (case in point, Adele, Indina Menzel, and many broadway singers). However, western artists have more freedom to choose tour dates and songs within their comfort zone, minimizing the amount of built-up strain.
Is it like yall were not listening when he said he was nervous , every kpop idol has their own bad moments
A good singer doesn't stop getting vocal lessons. Bcoz they want to continuously improve. A very good singer will never be satisfied bcoz their mindset will always want to do MORE. For example, Chen & Baekhyun, they are really good singer already and really known for their vocals, but then they never stop attending vocal lessons bcoz they want to always improve. As Xiumin said, SINGING is more important than dancing.
I'm sorry but this is in fact true, just because some people choose not to get vocal lessons does NLT mean they aren't good vocalist. Take Jungkook for example, Jungkook said when he was a trainee he tried doing vocal lessons but he ended up stopping them, not because he didn't want to learn/improve but because of the fact that the vocal coaches tried to change his color of voice and his style and make it into something that it's not. He said he doesn't like taking lessons from vocal coaches because they try to change his vocal identity. So he dedicated HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS everyday to teaching HIMSELF. He said from the moment he woke up to when he went to sleep he'd constantly do vocal exercises and find ways to improve, and trust me jungkook is HEAVILY self-critical on himself and ALWAYS strives to do better and better. Y'all have to realize its different for EVERY vocalist and just because you don't take vocal lessons doesn't mean you aren't amazing. Hell look at Beyonce, she HATED taking vocal lessons, yet she's one of the best vocalist of our time. Please don't generalize people and make it out to be that singers who don't take vocal lessons don't care about improving and being the best they can be, believe it or not some people are actually better when they take the time THEMSELVES and teach THEMSELVES.
@@BEOMIEPRINCESS I'm not their fan but I can say, JK is the best vocalist of his group.
@@BEOMIEPRINCESSjungkook is NOT a great nor an amazing vocalist. he is below/ average. he’s just the best vocalist in a terrible vocal group. not a good example. beyonce is a good one though.
@@BEOMIEPRINCESSsee…all the points you mentioned highlights the same thing, that’s training be it through a coach or themselves…it all comes down to getting trained and improving. And honestly jk might be good but comparing him to baekhyun, Chen, Beyoncé or any SM artist with respect to singing is unfair.
Coz they are way too good……jungkook I guess is okay but at least he’s trying
@@BEOMIEPRINCESShe has vocal lessons these years, you just need to find the *right* vocal coach for you, If you train it wrongly it will only lead to bad results.
What bothers me about Lisa’s (and the whole of Blackpink’s generally) case is, I’ve seen videos of her singing prior to debut (at recitals, and with her vocal coach, etc.) and there was clearly more potential to be a better vocalist than when she joined YG. She had better diaphragmatic engagement, tone, and just more freedom, before YG. If She doesn’t want to get lessons or is continued to be pushed as a stylistic sub vocalist more than an actual vocalist that would be a shame. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was getting some sort of vocal guidance from someone in YG (we know teddy helps her/them most…) but it was further damaging what she already knew.
Also the vocal coaches at YG concerns me….most of YG’s vocal lines have suffered due to questionable technique they all seem to exhibit (apart from winners main vocal, and taeyang). I hope they don’t ruin Baby Monster.
(Edit) In case it wasn’t clear, I’m not blaming YG solely. I agree that the members should be investing in vocal coaches outside of YG. Lisa seems to be still very close to her old vocal coach from Thailand…she’d be better off hitting her up on her own.
yeah, yg's vocal coaches notoriously suck
Rosé has also improved from debut as well, and Daseung and Minzy are actually quite good vocally, and much better than Taeyang and Winner’s main vocal.
@@DeeDeeDeeeee Maybe Minzy, and Daseung. I haven’t listened to them much recently, but from what I remember tension was still an issue. So that maybe true.
As for Rose she seems to be more consistent but not necessarily better in technique overall. She’s improved marginally and has more stamina as far as I’ve noticed.
@@moptop4355 I’d say her technique has improved as well, at debut anything above G#4 for her was tense and nasal but now she has good moments up to Bb4.
@@swduc2836 HENCE why I said "if she doesn’t want to get vocal lessons”… I didn’t blame yg solely.
And if an idol is getting coached by a vocal trainer who doesn’t prioritize their vocal health, it’s really not a "them” issue. They are actively seeking the help, but if the help is doing more damage than good then it’s clearly a company issue. Have you seen any of their shows with Ikon, Winner, Baby Monster, the coaches are not it.
Vocal training in kpop is such a weird case bc idols are trained to be more well-rounded which takes away time from properly developing their vocals.
They’re also focused to sing in certain styles and ranges that either they aren’t ready or that don’t suit their voice.
When people say an idol is well rounded it normally means someone who’s trained to be a very good dancer and performer who can rap a line if asked and hold a tune. The demands of many kpop songs are higher than the skills they’ve been trained for
That's because the Companies are in for money and not for talent and quality for the fans.Kpop has become such a big business opportunity for almost everyone with a cute face.Make some cute voice and cute face and apparently some fans will eat it up and be content with it
Are you really well rounded if your vocals are lacking though?
@@staciiiexactly
The issue is they don't recruit based on vocals. They recruit primarily based on looks. You can only fine tune a dud so much. Some ppl just can't sing and that's fine. But if you're paying to see a musical performance, they should be able to sing. That's why the fact that so many idols are scared of encore performances is worrying. Singing shouldn't feel like a test but an expression of self.
U should make 'kpop idols that need to give lessons to otherssss' or maybe specifically even their own members
That would problematic af and i'm here for it lol
That’s mean…please do it
The tea is about to be boiling hot on this one 🤭
oh that's naaaasstyyyy, I'm in!
heesung and sunoo should teach vocal control to rest of the enhypen members the vocal tone is nice but they could use some of their techniques
hybe genuinely needs to stop discarding vocal lessons for dance ones
it's what sells tho. Kpop fans should stop appreciating unskilled vocalists and maybe Hybe would change
All Hybe bg can sing though it's just the newer groups
they can do both
@@johnpauljonesisabadass8134yeah is extremelly sad but true 4th gen fans are the worse, they want to stan hot beautiful dancers, the music is teh least they care about, they need a group that would come with a great choreo they can imitate ... Having idols who sing but dont dance do t give them this benefict .... Is weird
I stan red velvet cuz their whole diacography is amazing, not only their title tracks, i have on my playlist their bsides, which make me happy, cuz i want to listen to music
I wish Jimin all the best too. I love his sweet voice, it suits his whole image and personality perfectly. He's had some good vocal moments but also some not very good ones. I hope he does get the help he needs because I want his voice to last throughout his career. We're in this Bangtan sh--- for life so I really wish he improves.
He said he’s working on his vocals, I wish him luck with that
Girl focus on ur bias why are u bothered about him ,he doesn't need u he is still making money why I keep being bothered fool
@@chidieberevirginia7199 Well I am very Jimin-biased so what do you mean?
And I'm genuinely concerned about his vocal health. It doesn't matter how much money he makes if it's at the expense of his voice. I want his voice to last and him to be confident in his singing. That'll save him a lot of mental torment from thinking he's not doing good enough.
@@chidieberevirginia7199You realize that him singing like that can destroy his voice right….? You’re not helping him by ignoring the problem
@@chidieberevirginia7199making money doesn't make you good vocals so he need to learn so he doesn't bring shame bts band
The way half of these idols come from hybe just shows how much hybe only focuses on visuals instead of talent
I think its really sad that the fans is actually praising their idol even when the idol was singing completely bad.
And/or defending their fave whenever people call it out...
You're acting like you can sing better than them
@Bethflowers64 Even if they can't, they are not the ones making money out of singing.
@Bethflowers64 I can and its sad lmao doing choir and band helps you a lot and actually learning how to breathe and not strain is very important and also basic info.
@@antasia861 that just means they shouldn't even be talking since it's none if their business or yours
What Xiumin said... It really shows now.
I've never noticed this lack of vocal techniques because I don't watch live shows. And I'm absolutely stunned rn💀
Xiumin, also has been constantly working on his voice since debut. He's right you gotta at least be able to hold a note. Otherwise, why be a singer?
@@Taemtiddies Exactly. I must admit, he wasn't that good since the beginning. It's practice. And well practiced, experienced person can say such things 😊
@@aenilies yes
Same, it’s really shocking to hear the clips in the video
With Kazhua, this is why idols should at least be training for 2 years. Kazuha only trained for 5 months and debuted with Le Sserafirm, yet her vocal is really weak. This is why she should have trained longer and received more vocal lessons to help improve her ability. There are exceptions like Baekhyun from EXO, who only trained for 7-8 months. But with his situation at least his vocals are really good and he was experienced with musical techniques as he trained as a singer at age 11 and was a lead singer in a band before exo. It also kind of confuses me how she's called the main dancer of le Sserafirm due to the fact that she has ballet background. When will people realize ballet dancing is completely different from idol dancing, the same thing happens with Twice's 'mina.' They're both good dancers, but are they the best in their group. The answer is not really.
But I will give credit where it's due, it's not Kazuha’s fault. As the majority of Gen 4 group clearly suffers the same or similar thing. Like IVE for example, Liz is the only member with actual and consistent support. Yujin to an extent can have support, but it's extremely shallow and inconsistent so I would rarely call it support if I'm being brutally honest. This is why K-pop entertainment companies need to work on their idol's vocal, dance, and rapping skills more instead of just rushing and hurrying their debut. (I am not a Kazuha hater, she's actually my bias along with yunjin in le sserafirm, so don't @ me).
Yeah Kazuha should vocally train more together with Sakura. But honestly SouMu got a jackpot in her since they got a funny and visually very pretty member added to the fact that she was a legit ballerina (unlike mina who has quit long before she got scouted) that they milked a lot during their debut year, kinda distracting people from the Garam situation. And I don't think she is the main dancer, I think that position goes to Eunchae.
@@Tenshikichi1 fr! I think people really underestimate Eunchae ability due to the fact that she’s the maknae in Le Sserafirm. She’s literally the 3rd best vocalist in the group, which is incredible considering her age and is probably one of the best dancers in the group along with Chaewon.
I agree that the "did ballet = main dancer" thing is usually kind of inaccurate, but to say Kazuha "did ballet when she was younger" is a huge understatement. She was on the preprofessional track at the Dutch National Ballet Academy. Her situations is light years apart from Mina's., and if we consider every style, she is undeniably the best dancer in Le Sserafim.
@@KPOPDanceDeepDives ehh in terms of idol dancing, Kazuha is abit weak. Whereas Eunchae and Chaewon movements are very clean and executed well. But honestly there’s not really a bad or weak dancer in Le Sserafirm, but Kazuha movements are abit more messier and stiffer then the other members.
It was only said by the fans. And that too in the beginning of their debut. She was never stated as a main dancer of the group officially. They only make use of her flexibility time to time but thats it. Nowadays, People always say that Chaewon is the best dancer among them.
I really enjoyed this video. I'm glad there are people speaking up on the lack of vocal training in idols. As an older k-pop fan I'm not coming home from school and binging music show performances all day. I'm commuting, running errands, working and I have my music on in the background. I need the music to sound good, and the people making it to sound good. I hope companies realize that the music really is the most important thing here and what keeps fans coming back. It's why shows like Dingo's Killing Voice/Verse, are so popular. A group just has to stand there and sing...live. No costumes, no crazy makeup, no choreo. Vocals. Thats literally all we need. And if they can do that well it's the ultimate flex for the group and the fandom.
You are a brave, brave man, but I agree with you on all of them. Some have gotten worse if anything and it's because the company have forced them to sing in areas they're not comfortable in with bad technique. Worried about the long-term health of some of these singers.
Finally someone that talks about this kind off stuff without being disrespectful and mean for no reason. Thank you for this.
Bruh the amount of time I got labeled as a hater for not enjoying Jimin's or Bts's songs is unbeliveable but that was my point all along. There's so much tension even I can feel the struggle when he was singing. Therefore what's really infruating you know? This guy is a fine ass dancer and an exeptional performer but his people wanna serve 'jimin vocal king' to the table so bad but I ain't eating a bit of it
I understand your point perfectly. Overall, BTS's vocals are not great, but not having an amazing vocal doesn't mean having a bad vocal, they are average. The biggest problem here is how their songs simply don't match the vocals, they are demanding a type of voice/range that they clearly don't have, in every live performance it's clear how forced and strained their voices are being. The most frustrating thing is that you can show that you have a good vocal without making high notes or falsetto and it seems the producers at HYBE can't understand that. KAI and Taemin are examples that you can be a good dancer/performer and still bring a good song and show a good vocal, and both here have a different tone of voice and don't have such a great vocal range. (english is not my first language, so I'm sorry for the confusing grammar.)
You say such bullshit. I bet you listen to SM's robotic vocals.
@@stress7561BTS are critically acclaimed vocalists and have been praised about their vocals from actual professionals and legends in the music industry. Because they are unique vocalists. JK has the best vocals that are suited to pop, Jimin has vocals that are way unique for low IQ kpoppies to understand, v has jazz vocals and Jin is labeled the silver voice for a reason. Just say you know nothing about vocals and music and you are a kpoppie used to listening to manufactured puppets on stage with meaningless dated recycled construction noises and go.
@@pennybleta9721 Delusional fan spotted...
@@stress7561no. Jimins vocals are bad not average. Bad. Especially for how long he’s been famous.
I would love for you to make a video on idols who desperately needed vocal lessons and actually got them and improved!
Taemin should be included for sure, his vocal improvement is crazy
@@_dont_mind_metrue. As much as I love him and SHINee, I was really puzzled about him debuting solo. But that man has improved fr he even opened up about getting more vocal lessons after his solo debut.
Is it that many though? Aside from the obvious case that is Taemin, the only idol that i can think of right now is Moonbyul. A lot of these "weak vocalist" idols are either just got vocally worse or stay in the same category.
Oh wow that would be a fantastic topic to discuss. I'm here for it!
I think Jin would fit wonderfully in here
A good vocal coach wouldn’t hurt
I'm surprised you only mentioned jay and jungwon and didn't include the rest of the group. especially niki, sunghoon and Jake. they all need vocal lessons badly
Not even that. Only included older videos of them singing. Jay has definitely improved a lot and they did not include one video
Might as well just put the entire group there except Heeseung and Sunoo. Their encores are always hard to listen to.
@@ace_1998yeah they used a very old video of jay and jungwon singing. they’ve both improved since then a LOT
@@MMDGabrielLMAO yeah and fans tryna defend them… I think enhypen (except heeseung and sunoo) isnt confident in their voice while no backtrack is playing bc their voices are strained as hell 😳😳 they need to get lessons ASAP
honestlyyyy! one of the reasons why i can't really get into them is because i'm a sucker for good vocal performances, and, well, they're not really vocally impressive especially live. they should've been trained longer before being put in I-LAND. it's a shame that nowadays, entertainment companies (even the biggest and richest ones) are all about popularity and visuals as long as they could instantly generate money from them. it's disappointing.
I LOVE Jungwon's voice and vocal tone, but I completely agree that he needs vocal training.
Where do you think is his biggest struggle?
I love his tone. He would sound like haechan NCT if he had good foundations
@@gloriana7777 foundations such a, sweetheart?
@@KatarzynaLisowska-lc2gq I'm not a trained vocalist or vocal coach, just a k-pop stan and choir kid, but I think his nasality could be his biggest struggle. It seems hard for him to support and hold some notes, and I think (???) it's because of how strained his voice seems.
@@gloriana7777 YESSS
I cannot agree more to your belief that JImin needs to master his basics
Jimin overhyped by his fans but this is the reality! The way the company and his fans goes as far as deleting every poor vocal performances vid he ever have online is telling alot!! He is not who he portraits to be...he needs vocal lessons!
I'm sorry that is what Blank Pink did with Jennie and a lot of BP performances. Hybe never did that. You have 10 plus years and lot of footage on youtube to proof that Jimin is amazing.
@Riviere8281 big facts ❤❤❤
Wait.... is that possible?
@@Thetenacityofkassidy aaah. Better used the money to singing lessons. They have amazing talent, and waste it like that, HYPE really weird
@@Thetenacityofkassidy agree. Jimin get so much hate. Kinda annoying because he's actually fine
gotta agree with you on chaeyoung. twice is my ult and i saw her solo live in LA and i was a little disappointed just because she wasn't clear and it almost seemed like she lacked confidence which is sad bc i know she wrote the song herself. i really hope she improves well because she's a hard worker and an artist!
@kellyb7561 Yikes, should've traded it in for a Nayeon solo show. If they even do that for her. She probably doesn't have time for that solo tour. Honestly, out of all of Twice, I still think Nayeon is clearly the #1 singer there and does definitely deserve her own solo tour. She speaks and understands good English, she just pretends not to sometimes because she doesn't want to have to think and then be awkward on stage.
Momo and Mina both either do really good or really sings off-key.
I'm not the best singer, I'm a drummer first so I understand rhythm and timing to hit notes in a certain way, but even I know that these people all need lessons and HYBE doesn't want to pay for it.
If you are a welder and work for a company, and you go to your boss and ask them for something that you need for the job, and they say no, then you go and get that from somewhere else yourself usually to finish that job.
Well, it's similar in this instance. They gotta go get the coach or teacher to help them get better. At least to be more comfortable in their own voices.
Kazuha and Eunchae both, I've noticed, seem to either be really pitchy or really flat. That's one of three things here:
A lack of training,
a lack of attention to their own voices and abilities,
or, it is a lack of tone perception. I think for Eunchae it is definitely the last one. She seems to be unable to understand her own pitch or the tone. That is basically textbook definition of tone deaf. She would have to start with a good coach on just the fundamentals and just on how to understand tone and notes first. Then they would go from there.
watched BTS singer Jimin's encore performance when my friend send me that...Im Not a Kpop fan but get really shocked...He needs vocal lessons seriously...Came to know he has been a singer for about 10 years...But literally its very pathetic...usually western or local singers sings perfectly without ear monitor after 10+ years even if its damaged they will cover the performance in most professional way...But here that was not ear montor problem...He completely went off- key notes to sing....
If its a 1 year old singer ok we can say yes its lack of practice...But here its unbelievable with 10 years of experience still sings in off-key is something not good...Later heard Set me free and LC..His dance was good but singing its not upto the mark...That songs were heavily support on autotune and high backing vocals..
He needs vocal lessons in a broad way
Enough lying for today. The obsession is real
It’s weird to have this much vitriol for a stranger….
No need for aggression. If you only know that video of jimin singing then you can’t determine whether he is bad or good. At the video you watched there was technical difficulties going on and his ear piece wasn’t working and he couldn’t hear himself. But no excuses, he does need to improve his vocals. He is good and skilled at singing but his very falsetto and nasal voice is kinda forced. Either him or his company forces his voice to be like that. He should probabaly stop forcing it or he could damage his vocal cords. I hope he improves.
@@Ddaengfilmslike agree let's not forget the times where he really did a good job but also there should be constructive criticism that he should improve.
i think chaeyoung has great potential. if she does start using her vocals more, then i hope she recognizes that she'll need more vocal lessons or practice.
Agreed
All idols have good potential the problem is always the technical training and lesson are absent on all companies.
@@topzki47 unlike other idols,her technique is somewhat healthier for me,and she have a clearer tone.
I really hate the excuse of being nervous, and I know Chaeyoung isn’t a skilled singer, but she was definitely very nervous during all of her solo performances during TWICE’s tour in light of her scandal. I can’t even imagine how she managed to get on the chair with all the spotlight on her wondering what the people in the crowd thought of her. I won’t support her entirely on the matter, but she was definitely nervous as hell
@@victjsofjsmdngorI agree with you. I saw twice at MetLife and during chae’s solo, I thought of the scandal, so I’m guessing thousands of other people were thinking the same thing. The scandal was still fresh on peoples minds during the first leg of their tour, so I imagine she was so nervous. I do think she has a nice voice and could be great if she was more confident
ngl jimins voice sounds artificially high
That’s my huge gripe with Kpop. A lot of companies value looks over talent. Sure other things like being a good dancer is a good skill set to have, buts the vocals is the skill that will elongate their careers.
That’s why groups like exo, super junior, mamamoo, apink, RV, etc last so much longer. So while they may not be able to dance as complex vs when they were
20, they still have the vocal skill set.
ARMY here! Thank you for speaking on Jimin's voice honestly but also with respect. Jimin definitely has a bit to go when it comes to vocal technique but he's definitely aware of his flaws. After his solo debut, he said that he became even more aware of the areas where he was lacking. When you're a part of the group you may not get a sense of how you do individually until you go it on your own. So in one of the last lives he did, he talked about how he's been going back to the basics when it comes to training which I presume means his dance and singing skills. He's a hard worker and he's constantly working on improving and being better and although he may not be as good as other singers I think that he does the best he can with what he has and I'm confident that he will continue to improve given his work ethic and self-awareness!
Wishing all armies were like you
His dancing skills dont need to improve and all bts members should get vocal lessons not only him
@@Lmm1310all bts members have good vocals except him bts vocal line jungkook,jin and V are so good so the only one need training i think is him he always cracks when he singing live
@@liibanboojo1673 That's not true.
And whose fault is it that he didn't get vocal lessons? Big Hit. He wanted vocal lessons. He even sat in on the other members vocal lessons and then practiced on his own after. I don't get why he didn't get vocal lessons and the others did. It was so unfair to him. And then he was forced to sing all the high notes in the background too without proper technique.
I think Lisa is more focused on dancing, performing and rapping since she's a main rapper and dancer but I agree as a fan I'd like to hear more of her singing because she's not bad at all.
Edit: I get it she's not officially the main rapper of the group, I wrote main rapper because she raps a lot so pls stop floading the comments saying she's not the main rapper I KNOW IT.
i would say she has a focus mainly in dance and performance. she doesn't tend to rap a ton either. she doesn't write and she hasn't improved as a rapper. i was kind of shocked at how much she hasn't worked in her voice though because she has specifically said multiple times that she wants to sing better. but she may also be restricted by her company not just anxious and slow on improvement. i think she knows her strong point and that's her comfort zone and it can understandably be difficult to step outside of your comfort zone especially when the world is watching but blackpink have the unique ability to have tons of time to themselves so her improvement doesn't have to be in front of everyone. i hope she does get better. she has the best solo potential after blackpink but people will get bored of her if she can only bring one thing to the table.
Lisa is a lead rapper not main. And over the years her tone in rapping didnt change but now in ranking videos the creator says she is interchangeable with jennie in rapping. (But i dont think so she has improved as she has only one tone throughout her rapping and she cant change her tone just like jennie).
Off the point jennie is the main rapper.
@@adiuraj2296Jennie is the main rapper, but tone changing in rap is not something either of them have really exhibited. What are you talking about?
I mean to say jennie has better flow and tone as compared to lisa. She is very much versatile as well as she has varied tone like powerful tone, soulful tone and softer tone.
She also knows different rapping style as compared to lisa and she raps faster and more professionally than lisa. That's my point.
Hope you got it.
@@adiuraj2296 Gotcha! Yeah in my opinion neither of them have really exhibited that. Especially since the styles you’ve been mentioned have shown throughout for both. They are pretty interchangeable in the grand scheme of things. With Jennie’s tone being deeper that lends to her having a darker tone but the style and technique at which she addresses her raps are virtually consistent throughout the years. I’ve never heard a verse from either of them and thought "wow, that’s different from the last 8 other raps” the cadences might vary slightly depending on the songs rhythm, but for each of the girls verses they never go past a bar or two with variations in style.
JIMIN voice and technique were so much better around 2013-2017, i really want to know what he has done or what happened to him.
Some think that his fried his vocal chords due to being forced to sing higher than his natural voice for prolonged periods of time without enough technical training.
You cant assume jimin to be an innocent lil angel, hes nearly 30 years old, for sure he has smoked/vaped before too, which greatly affects the voice
@@blablablaj Not in the same way.
My bet is on damaged vocal chords due to straining his voice over his natural limit .🤷
@@blablablaj infrequent smoking or vaping often doesn't cause vocal damage , in fact , they injure the lungs more . Jimin isn't a chain smoker or something.
I sincerely wish for all seven members of enhypen to get EVEN better vocal training as they have improved in these months shockingly fast and I love the different dynamics in their voices and would love for them to reach their potential
It's been half a year but dudeee your video is more in trend than ever. I can't get LSRF Coachella bad performance out of my head😭
They will said "he having the unique voice" meanwhile haechan and ryeowook have a unique voice but still kill it
But SM has great training system! I think Jimin regressed. I hope he will be better after vocal lessons.
I'm glad we are at a point now where we can acknowledge how bad Jimin's technique is because back when I tried getting into BTS his grating singing was the main reason i gave up on it, I could not deal with it.
Like how unbiased and honest this is. Criticism is good for improvement
To be honest I was holding my breath when I saw Jimin in the thumbnail but there was no need to. You were respectful and didn't make any unnecessary remarks about him. Thank you for covering Jimin. I actually hope you cover the rest of the BTS vocal line.
True after all the hate he gets veiled as "criticism" I was worried but i didn't need to be. This is what constructive criticism sounds like I agree with everything the creator said. I hope jimin improves tremendously in the future because I love his voice i just want the best for him.
Edit: after reading through some of these comments I was right to dread this video, although the creator was respectful and actually provided constructive criticism, some people just wanna hate on jimin and has got the licence to do so now. Pity these people can't live without hate in their lives.
@@Musicgeek97 Well said! What truly made me fearful was all the comments under his community post about this video. Everyone was like 'Army is going to come for you', 'Be prepared' things like that. I think it just created unnecessary fear and anxiety about the video. You don't know how relieved I was when he started off with 'Jimin is a passionate performer'. I'm glad he didn't overlook all of his other good qualities because a performance and artist is made up of many things not only good singing.
Oh no, I refrain from reading too many comments just for my mental peace. It's a bit sad but we only have ourselves, so we can only rely on ourselves.
I even got a rude comment about Jungkook's vocals being off but the person couldn't even support their claims. Just ignore them. They're just empty cans making a lot of noise.
@@laura79613well they aren't wrong that's what ur fandom does..and it happening as we speak and for a week now ~
they disrespected SEUNGKWAN'S vocals and saying he can't sing live but when we posted jimins video they went FERAL ~ must be nice playing victim all the time .. now they are trending vile hashtags about SVT members and editing and posting carats personal photos and mocking them w words and editing ...what a nice armshit fandom comfort urself like that 😊
@@Hannie_my_Joy omg cause you kpoppies are so innocent, right? 🙄
Kudos to you for making two parts of this video. I mean k-pop fans are scary I would never have the courage to make something like this if I were in your place.
I wish u could talk about jimin's vocal regression over the years and go over his older singing clips (pre-2018) just to compare. His voice always had a bit of tension in it but it has gotten much more unstable in recent years.
He regressed?!
His singing style affected his vocal health hence you see it as a “regression “. As he has said he’s working on his vocals , we are all waiting and wishing him all the best in his training(vocally)
@@tgreen9774 he has alwasys been bad, but he's worse now than before
No, admin doesn't need to do such a video. On the contrary, YOU can choose to talk about that right here in the comment section. This is your opportunity to go off! Admin gave you the Jimin critique video like you wanted, now you want ANOTHER video that shows Jimin in worse light. Why? Were you hoping he would be more brutal in his critique of Jimin and now you want another episode to go harder on him? What you are asking has already been addressed in *this* video.
@@hitmanbangsyellowcrocs4213 Dang preach lol
Honestly all the enhypen members are improving, compared to their debut they have improved sm and I'm sure they will do more great in future!
yes
yess i've noticed that too, i'm so excited to see where they'll be a couple years from now
bless your soul for putting #that man in the video. they will come for you
Armies know right who sings how well..we know Jimin is not a good vocalist
@@_sunoobubble_well i don't think so
@@anggracweety many sensitive armies can disagree but it's the truth
@@anggracweetyyou didn’t watch the video?
@@anggracweety well buddy proper singing is not subjective like taste in music is
I think Chaeyoung has potential. Like she‘s underdeveloped but with lessons and training she could become better, cause something is there. Same for Mina. In general, JYPE should invest more into TWICE’s vocals. Jihyo, Jeongyeon and Nayeon are doing fine, but I think they could also have some, so that their skills become even stronger. Cause I‘d love to see where they‘re all at a point to sing encore stages just decently and comfortably enough without struggling. Cause like Sana and Momo struggle quite a lot, which is sad. Cause the sub-vocalists could all improve to become more decent.
Jungwon and Jay have quite nice voices, I hope they can improve their vocals in the future.
Chaeyoung has a lot of potential despite supposedly being the main rapper. She has shallow support compared to the others though inconsistent, she can definitely improve & become a better vocalist if they focus on her training & let her sing more. Twice in general has problems with confidence so the solo stages definitely will help them be more comfortable despite the mistakes, they'll learn how to control any issues.
I remember way back, people would shit on me for saying Jimin needs vocal lessons. I pretty much said, similarly, that he sounds too pitchy and when he's trying to hit high notes the technique isn't there.
To be exact, almost all hybe artist needs further vocal lessons, otherwise they might waste their potential and opportunity to improve. But I highly appreciate and respect SVT's vocal especially Seungkwan and DK.
Fromis9 and Seventeen is an exception though because they are not originally from hybe.
@@JudezaJairaIbarra agreed
hybe is a label.
Yunjin is decent too.
Someone said that hybe don't provide singing lessons when they just see the potential of idol they leave him/her. its your head ache to improve or get hate by netizens
Having tight schedules is not a reason not to have vocal lessons or practice. Even the Great Celine Dion's said that she still have a vocal trainer and still gets lessons.
ikr? Baekhyun started a twitter space just two days ago on the way back home saying he just finished vocal lessons at 2AM local time. If you REALLY want to, you can.
@@neomuneochicken4585 indeed! they have the money and resources. All they have to do is show up to their vocal trainers. This is also one way of taking care of their voices and throat as well as improvement of their singing ability
Na thats different kpop idols have crazy schedule
@@ruu406but singing is their job, they have to practice it
i wouldnt compare them with western singers. like singing is the only skill they have, need and should master. if they didnt go to vocal lesson, how they gonna survive?
idols on the other hand, at first incharged of certain skills but then expected to be excellent in every areas. i would rather compare them with other idols who managed to arrange their schedule with diff lessons, dance, vocal, rap equally and effectively.
eg : exo members, red velvet (from what i heard). exo specifically improved in singing plus dancing as you can see in their creamsoda dance practice.
so comparing with western singers is weird.
The way some people defending idols by blaming their company 😭 I mean baekhyun take personal lessons for vocals. Other idols are rich enough too to get vocal lessons but they just did care and some of them are not even meant to be singer no matter how much they practice like sakura etc
feels like chaeyoung lowkey likes singing more then rapping, maybe she could improve if she wants to
Like she has the potential! I think besides the vocal line, she and Mina have the most potential when it comes to improving in their vocal abilities. Tzuyu is following after
fr tho! Her, Mina and Tzuyu have promising registers but they aren’t that consistent. If they were under SM, they would prob have just as much support as 3Mix has.
@@pochaccito.1 yea, if they were more consistent, they‘d be better but with training and practising they could achieve more stability and consistency
@@jxstadri totally agree!!
@@pochaccito.13mix is so funny bc those girls still seem like they have untapped potential. They’re good right now but I imagine w an SM vocal trainer a LOT of their flaws could be fixed and put them on like Wheein-Hwasa levels of singing. Jeongyeon is afraid of her falsetto and head voice (which affects her mix and by extention her general range), so she’d need that taught to her. Nayeon can get screamy to my understanding and incredibly tight, but her voice itself goes high so to me it seems like a placement and projection issue with her. I have no idea w Jihyo but idk I’m sure there’s room to grow for someone so dedicated to their craft like her.
I really hope enhypen will take some vocal lessons in the future cause I can see they're not confident in their singing at all. Except Heeseung and Sunoo the other members have little to no vocal skills. Jay has improved a lot though and I appreciate that he always tries to sing live
Even THE BYUN BAEKHYUN takes vocal lessons till now. So yeah every single idol here should take vocal lessons
I’m sorry but Jimin singing is kind of embarrassing. I didn’t realize how awful he sounds when he is singing live. I guess auto tune really helps him out in all their songs.
Wonder how he is soloist now...
@@EverRoxassuccessful soloist will released his second album next year watch for it
@EverRoxas doing good, charting great, create good songs, no need to worry
@@bijjjjjalso singing bad
@marley3690 You nor your favs can never be near his achievements, so what's with this jealousy? Lol
EXO Xiumin once said: Singers must be able to sing. Xiumin is not the main vocalist in EXO, but I'm sure Xiumin could become the main vocalist if he debuted in another company.
And there are several people above who occupy the main dancer position and I have to admit they are very uncomfortable with their voices, but some people may not care that they are from the 2 groups that have the most fans in the world.
But when talking about main dancers who can sing, there are only 2 names that I recognize, SHINee Taemin and Red Velvet Seulgi.
As someone who always consider idols as a singer not just a performer I wish they can sing. It doesn't have to be like the lead vocal or even main vocal. As long as they're not singing off key, not shaky and pleasant to hear is enough for me. Because they already have their position in the group so it's still okay
I’m a bit shocked hearing these popular singers’ vocals, especially Jimin (Since he’s in a famous group I expected more from him. I’ve only watched him dance). If they know they are lacking, as paid professionals, improving their vocals should be important. I really hope they do improve.
Yea, Jimin's voice was getting weaker over the years. But he said in his production diary that he was going back to the basics of vocal training and getting better.
i really respect how you give fair and constructive criticism without using the opportunity to bash on the idols! as an engene since pre-debut i will say some members definitely lacked in vocals compared to others, and it's to be expected as most of them had very short training periods before debuting. however i do think the members have all shown tremendous growth in their (now) 3 years in the industry. you can tell they've definitely been taking lessons and have been getting a lot of help from heeseung as well. theyre more familiar with the basics and are starting to get more and more comfortable with their singing abilities. i think jay especially has improved a lot this year and has even begun to find his vocal identity (ex: his cover of dry flower with yuuri and enhypens anniversary video titled 'highway'). of course there is always room for improvement, but enhypen are very passionate for their job and always talk about their crave and need for wanting to be better artists. i hope to see the day where they can all be respected as some of 4th gens best vocalists :)
Jimin is destroying his voice he should lip sync more until he learns how to support his voice properly
As an ARMY I have to admit Jimin isnt sounding so good live nowadays. But I also dont think he is a bad vocalist 100% of the time. Older performances give other insights. He had a bit of an edgier delivery then. As for the rest, I dont know their work so I cant comment
@@slayraOlder performances were also before he screwed up his vocal cords...
He's been deleting comments off his social media that were telling him to get a vocal coach to improve guess he wants to destroy his voice it's his choice
@@jasmeetsandhu229he said in his production diary that he is working on his vocals now, so hopefully he’s taking it seriously now
I used to be army and 100 his voice was not this bad. But sadly that's no excuse and his voice has not been good for many many years now.
Ouch. 😓 Also props to giving dancers/rappers a bit more of a break. I don’t think the ppl who give you a hard time realize you use examples where an idol is singing while standing in place.
thanks for the second part! and thanks for adding the group names :)
I was so glad when I discovered encores after getting into kpop. some groups/soloists sound even better live than recorded, and some should better never win awards to not sing encores afterwards.
jimin’s falsetto kinda sounds like a squeaking rat tbh, idk but it is irritating
Literally, the yes or yes needs to improve
Jimin did his singin style for years like that n its sound bad n annoying, its must be hard to fix cz he used to do it for year its kind of muscle memory imo
I worry about that too. Even with lessons, it will take time to retrain his "everything " to do it right.
this video further proves that 90% of kpop stans know absolutely NOTHING about singing, cuz i swear i've seen many fans out there say stuff like lisa or jimin are as great as main vocal level but ofc similar can be said about the rest of this list especially the enhypen boys 💀 and it's like, ok i get it! yall love these idols! but you should be able to compliment them for things they are actually good at instead of something they are *not*, no? 🤷♀️
They confuse vocal tone with technique
not surprised, there is another channel known to criticise/analyse kpop idols dancing and then you got the amount of braindead "fans" who are too sensitive to the idea that an artist can improve in the comments.... like yall who are like that are ridiculous, really shows that youve never practiced anything art related yourself cause any artist (drawing, singing, dancing etc.) knows you will never be perfection... it really infuriates me as a muscian and a drawer that there are people who believe kpop idols are perfect gods that can never do wrong 😭😭
I'm so glad that you covered this because you're speaking facts and it's the uncomfortable truth that many fans do not want to hear.
K-pop is the definition of “don’t judge a book by its cover” but in a bad way. Good image on the outside, fucked up in the inside. At this point, they are just making some idols for some cult or something
With Jungwon I feel like its a prime example of when you debut someone still going through puberty. Given how much their voice is changing it could become dangerous if its not mentored properly.
FRRR, like comparing debut ni-ki or even i-land ni-ki with ni-ki from criminal love or blossom… it’s just hell and heaven. i wish for them to rerelease their older albums with upgraded vocals, because i CANNOT listen to flicker it’s like torture, but the song is so good tho. 😭😭
@@conchispaceI SOO AGREE WITH FLICKER. i saw it live and it sounds so much better now (cause they’re older)
@@remi4018 fr like i love jungwon with my whole heart but flicker is just not it for me.
Fr im so glad that i got proper vocal training when i was 8 and i still continue it i was able to ultimately develop my voice and all my Registers really well (i do classical indian singing)
Bruh is it a hybe thing to have idols with bad vocals? and they even get away with it since a lot of their groups are successful. I blame the fans. They should have higher expectations for their idols. Another hybe GG just came out and they literally have more untalented vocalists on that one and they charted higher than some groups who had more talent than they have. wake up people uphold this music genre higher. Bad vocals kills kpop
No because all bg can sing it's just the newer groups
The fact that kpop fans never want to criticize their idols make it difficult for idols to realize they need improvement, and it does not encourage the companies to put money into vocal lessons
For Enhypen's jungwon and jay I agree that their vocals isn't the best cuz they didn't get to train for a long period of time before debuting + the clips on the video are 1-2 year old. I think they've got much better now from what I've seen from the latest tour and last comeback. For me, they are one of the few groups that always keeps improving
Exactly
I just watched one of their concert clips,and nothing changed with Jungwon tbh,he still have that nasal and closed throat quality to his singing..
@@Verowinday777he has a nasally sound in his regular talking voice though 💀
@@luvkkuma Seems like a stylistic choice.
the fact that they didn't get to train for a long period is exactly the problem
hybe makes good performers but mid vocalists, you can see where their priorities are
Too bad their diehard fans can't...
@@EverRoxas honestly i ult a hybe group and i'm well aware they aren't amazing vocalists. but i actually like their vocals just fine and think they are improving beyond the company's plans for them. and i do value good performance over vocals honestly.... i've been a kpop fan for a long time and feel like i've seen it all. so i know how my ult group compares to others and they're still my favorite. that being said any criticism is not gonna be well received by other fans so i keep my mouth shut lol
Their priorities lie in making money . At the tender age of 16/17 , when Jimin was a child , instead of giving him vocal lessons he was trained to expose his body and dance seductively in front of a camera while pressuring him to lose weight. People might say how Hybe treated their artists so well, but that's codswallop ( as Hagrid would say) .🤷
If you do a part 3, could you include some of the Stray Kids lineup? I really enjoy their songs, and I know they have a more emphasized focus on rap, but their vocals (aside from Seungmin) could use serious training. Don't get me wrong, they are all very talented-- the blame falls squarely on JYP for not developing them enough (I have heard Seungmin takes private lessons, which would explain why he has continued to improve over the years). I.N. is an obvious pick due to him being a part of the vocal line, but also having multiple areas that could use some further development. I would love to see Lee Know take lessons as well, but for a different reason-- he has some of the most potential I've ever seen in an idol (his tone, range, and vocal colors are actually incredible considering he took zero voice lessons prior to debuting with SKZ) and I would love to see what he could truly do with actual training.
Honestly seungmin in and han are the only proper singers of skz, lino has potential, changbin has only good lows rest all need vocal lessons asap
I heard that Seungmin also takes I.N. and Lee Know to his vocal lessons which could explain why all three sound better from their previous comebacks. Still, all of SKZ could use some vocal lessons to improve and eventually get better.
Oh brother...I like SKZ too but dont get me started on Felix... 😢
Omg you’re so right!!!! I’m not so familiar with vocals or anything but it’s clear most of the members need vocal lessons. Seungmin and Han imo ate good. Chan and I.N are decent but could still get proper training. Changbin is alright but since he’s a rapper I don’t think too much of it. Imo ( I’ve been scared to say this cause you know how stays get defensive- with gods reason ofc sometimes) but danceracha need vocal lessons asap. I could give hyunjin and Felix a pass since they mainly rap but lee know…. Hmm
No hate to lee know whatsoever. I’m fact i really like his vocal tone and never really paid attention or was bothered by his vocals. That was until the 5 star done tours where he performed limbo….. like he’s not a bad singer but you can CLEARLY hear him straining and it’s so sad to me like??? I really need him to improve cause limbo is such a good songs but his vocals are not it
This videos had taught me that for the most part, stylistic singing and kpop idols don't mash well...
stylistic singing is only good when it's done properly. to be stylistic you need to have technique down. like with every other skill. you build on the general rules and then you find your uniqueness to add.
@@littlelou050 exactly!!one needs to have their foundation strong before singing that way
This reminds me of Beyoncé's growling. If her technique wasn't flawless her voice would've been wrecked decades ago
@pruitv3huh
Nope. If your technique is at a basic level sometimes style can elevate it. The issue is, these idols can barely stay on note, so obviously any style would make it worse.
Listen, why yall keeping the argument so intense in the comments. Back to basic, a singer should be able to sing. Kpop idol is a singer. They make music. They release songs. For us to listen.
what shocks me in twice is that they have JEONGYEON in the group yet their producers tend to give Mina, Sana, Chaeyoung and sometimes even Tzuyu more lines than her like whaaaat?
ntm on mina
They exclude Jeongyeon because she is not a "beauty standard" and is not commercial marketable. That's heartbroken 😢
Its sad that the majority of the idols here mentioned are very very popular
Being super popular doesn't mean they're the best...
You will never see an SM artist on a video like this lmao
Sehun, Lucas, Hyoyeon, Jaemin, Jeno and I could keep telling names, actually SM was the first company to put visuals over talent back then and putting the vocal responsability on just one or two members☠️
@@levitatingstan6526 literally none of the idols you named are vocalists
@@levitatingstan6526 Not to sound aggressive but like no shit these main dancers and main rappers you just named cant sing they're not VOCALISTS lmao. The idols being named in this video have vocal positions, none of the idols you named have a main, lead, sub, or just vocalist position so I'm just confused.
@@goingback2uno, Lisa doesn’t have a vocal position
@@bp-u-will-always-be-famous yes she does, it's literally in kprofile that she is a sub vocalist.
Dang, what the hell were they doing as trainees for years (especially at HYBE)? Was it tiktok training at 8am, aegyo coaching at 10, applied parasocialism at 12 and then call it a day?
😂😂😂
applied parasocialism is killinggg mee 😭😭😭😭
I feel like Lisa has so much potential, but she’s just never gave the chance to focus on it so she became too uncomfortable to try it compared to dancing
I think she is afraid of criticism and it’s sad because she has a good voice
There's so many idols in the singing struggle bus, this series is never going to end I fear.😭
it’s so funny that kpop companies always try to push the “my idols are filled with passion for singing and they sacrificed their life to be an idol” yet it’s so rare to see idols actually improving their skills throughout their career. its like the lessons stop after their training days. most of them sing exactly the same way (skill wise) they did when they started, if anything the kids that were 12 went trough puberty but now they don’t fit their song’s pitch.
Yet Jungwon and Jay are the most stable vocalists in the group and do sound good when they're singing songs that fit their own tones and that they're more comfortable with, like 'seattle' or 'all i wanna do' for Jungwon or 'dried flowers' for Jay. I don’t think they're bad at all and they’re definitely improving as time goes on as well.
edit: also they both sound beautiful in their latest album and in the still monster live band performance
the most stable vocalist is definitely heeseung but i agree with everything else
@@yixinghasmeshookistg814 well heeseung is the main vocalist and is the most vocally talented but if you watch mr removed videos jungwon and jay have been the most stable since debut they're always singing live
right i think he added incore sometimes the idols are tired
@@yixinghasmeshookistg814heeseung goes hard on dancing so he lip syncs sometimes meanwhile Jay and Jungwon always sing live.
@@lost4tseas mr removed is not reliable, it's machine generated. if you want to know who can actually sing live and is stable, listen or just observed who always sing acapella or without backtrack during concerts, guestings, radio shows. even during their comeback showcase they make that one member sing their lines cos they cant do it live.