Nmixx members actually said that they practiced singing while running a lot for this specific comeback because of the choreo being so hard and it definitely paid off. I love these girls so much and I am glad they're finally starting to get the recognition they deserve.
The fact that NMIXX, the group who's known for doing wacky choreos while hitting the necessary notes since debut, admits they NEED more cardio and breath training shows how high the standards should be. There hasn't been a single performance they didn't completely nail down and it shows.
As a Shawol, it makes me happy to call mysef a new Nswer. They really understand what it takes to be an idol and if all goes well, they will have longevity too.
@@glaciemdracothat is the goal for NMIXX and Nswers. were after that longevity. they're playing the long game, making connections in the industry and slowly but surely gaining popularity with the GP with Haewon leading the way (Workdol) and the girls not far behind
Sooo true n hybe Stans wanna Gaslight us into thinking that their faves can sing while dancing PERFECTLY but can't talk-sing during an encore 👀 In most hybe groups there only 1 or 2 decent vocalist n that's all. (Sometimes not even decent like heesung, minju n taehyun are lead vocalist material)
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670Taehyun and Heeseung are decent vocalists. Enhypen and TXT also have other good vocal members like Hueningkai, Yeonjun, Sunoo and Jungwon. Enhypen are also stable and their encores are good too. TXT also have many good live performances. True about Minju that she is just lead vocal at best, I wish Hybe debuted Jiwoo and Chanelle instead of the dozen Wonhee. Illit would had way better vocals then. Cause Yuna and Minju can’t hardcarry the whole group.
I feel like people forget Haneul is a good vocalist too when they see Belle. If Haneul isn't singing the same parts as her or hitting the same high note, she goes unnoticed. Haneul is not exceptional or amazing, that's true, but she's still good enough to shine if she's given a chance. In Shhh, Belle has almost all of those difficult parts that showcase her vocals, but Haneul is also given her own sudden portion in the second verse that is acceptable enough as a way to show off hers. As they release more music, though, Haneul gets less and less time to shine (she doesn't need high notes or something, but I don't think a lead vocalist should have half the amount of lines as the member who sang the 3rd most in a group of 4). I'm OT4 and I really wish she was more utilized in their songs :|||
I think Haneul is also underrated as a vocalist because her vocal tone is slightly polarizing / not everyone’s taste. Belle stands out not only as someone who has incredible vocal prowess, but her vocal tone is one that’s more widely popular and familiar (Ariana reminiscent) yet extremely uncommon in k-pop. Haneul has a more common kpop vocal tone but it’s nasally which isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. People confuse tone with singing skill, sadly. It’s sort of like Soyeon - she’s quite skilled and competent vocally but she rarely gets recognized for that because her tone is quite polarizing. I think if Haneul is given more chances to shine people will appreciate her vocals more.
I mean my criteria for vocals is different but I would say Haneul is what I'd expect from a lead or even main vocalist in Kpop. She really deserves more time to shine
I wouldn't say on her own she's that impressive, however, she's too good for me to be feeling underwhelmed. Why does EVERY challenging line have to go to Belle when Haneul is capable of delivering them properly as well??? Also, idk if its just me but Belle sounds like her voice is getting tired from all the obnoxiously high singing. The high lines alone aren't the problem, but it's the frequency of them, for someone at her level. At abt E5 and higher, her pitch, vibratoo, stability and overall technique becomes rlly inconsistent and I hope they spend more dedicated time training that more since they can't seem to stop giving her those types of lines. The thing is, tho... she's already so great below that note so idk why they think that she HAS to always be flexing range. I'd personally leave a descent amt of her high lines as options she can use to mix it up live if she so pleases, not as part of the official composition...
@@mingisfixon6452 I agree with you on this entire thing. There was a specific performance of Bad News where Belle sounded like her voice was absolutely in pain throughout the whole song, voice cracking frequently and clearly flat during the main high note. This is not the only performance where this happens, it's just the one that first comes to mind. Bad News's chorus is mostly D5s, so it makes enough sense that she wouldn't be able to sing it all the time (not to mention while trying to dance as best as she can too), but she definitely realized early on during that performance that her vocals were not going to be great for the higher parts that day and her resolve seemed to be that she would just ignore it. I really hope she's taking good care of her voice, it'd be a shame if this overexertion causes as much damage as it realistically could :||| She's got a gorgeous lower and middle-range, and apart from Te Quiero and some other b-sides, you don't get to hear it as much. I guess they HAVE given her less crazy high notes after Midas Touch, but even then, Sticky is just one song. Who knows what sort of song she'll have to sing next come back? As for Haneul, it's true that she's not incredibly impressive, but she's a capable vocalist who still seems to have a lot to show that just isn't being shown at all. I'm not saying that she should be given super difficult parts, but based on performances, she's reasonably comfortable when it comes to higher notes and would probably be okay to sing them every now and then. While it's not necessary for a lead vocalist to be belting high notes all the time (or the main vocalist as well), when Belle is the main vocalist and that's the bar that is set, something should absolutely be done to showcase Haneul's talents better. Belle outshines all her members when it comes to vocals (not her fault, of course), but Natty and Julie have their own respective areas that they're known for. I really hope Haneul gets to shine a little better eventually, she's absolutely got the potential (and fairly enough skill already). Plus, both her and Belle are still very young (maybe not for a K-Pop idol, but we all know where THAT bar is) and have a lot of time to improve and develop. We'll see how this goes :>
The way haneul could easily be help Belle about vocal heavy parts but s2 giving too much pressure on her… I know Belle want that parts as it is her own right but SOMETIMES there are parts which would have suited haneul be given to Belle… just let neul help belle out
And it’s not just live either, so many kpop songs sound so empty because there’s a stark lack of harmonisation, especially in the choruses, or adlibs to spice up different parts of the song even in the studio edition. I swear half the new songs I hear have absolutely no difference between the final chorus and the rest of the song because there are no vocalists in the group who can pull off some extra adlibs, and the only time the group sings together is when they’re chanting. I just want some layered vocals, is that not the whole point of listening to a group and not a soloist?
I was in a professional choir in college, so complex harmonies are a big deal to me. The bridge in EXO's Tempo really gave me chills. These days, I've been loving Riize, they're so good!
Taeil is under investigating and the police has not said anything of him being guilty or not. Let us remain neutral and not send Taeil uneccesary hate.
@@vixxexo6855 i feel like although it's important to remain neutral and not send Taeil any hate, we have to acknowledge that SM had him kicked out (even if news says it was a mutual agreement). cube, hybe, and even SM have stood by their idols when faced with bullying accusations, sex crimes, drug abuse, until 1. it's been too long to change the public opinion (soojin) or 2. it's been proven definitively that the accused idol was guilty/innocent. taeil on the other hand, was kicked out almost as soon as news about him came out. not to mention even his friends unfollowed him (although that isn't very convincing bc idols need to keep their image). i'm not hating on him, it's just that i can't help but feel it's best to kinda disconnect myself from NCT for a while.
I'm 100% with you on the need for more harmonies, ad-libs, and a desire to hear more live singing. Does this mean I just want EVERY group to be a clone of Mamamoo? I think STAYC has a lot of potential to deliver in these areas. They already have a nice range of voices in the group.
Yeah it makes them sound kind of robotic. Especially when a vocalist that can actually sing on pitch perfectly like winter, lily, wendy have that post production it makes their voice even more robotic than other or is it just me....
Rami is literal powerhouse of Babymonster i swear to God, the way she keeps adding something new to every live perfomance and gives it all like there's no tomorrow❤🔥 *QUEEN*
one of my gripes with kpop as a whole is that a lot of groups do not take advantage of them being groups. They rely on it to not make it apparent when someone cant perform on their own, but they rarely actually use the full range of voices, singing/rapping styles and dancing styles that would come with being a group. They throw random people togehter where some dont fit the concept, some do, some are able to pull off concepts and changes, some do not and give little to no support to get them to a point where they can work in unity. And because of that, its so easy for toxic fans to pick out one person and blame them for anything, rather than the company, who makes most of the decisions. A lot of problems would be resolved if the companies would care more to make use of one of their defining factors. I wanna add that i feel like most groups that do good in that regard are groups whose members are taking part in the production of the songs, or groups that have a very thought through concept, rather than just "girl crush" or "cute" or whatever. Something where the muscial style is very defined and then build upon
2:49 These days the companies are so obsessed with perfection that even in the "album recording behind" videos, pitch correction is used. So when we hear the idols in the recording studio, we think those are their raw vocals but they are not. It's sad how fans have forgotten what ACTUAL live vocals sound like.
I think only encore stage doesn't have post production (except mnet) and people who can really SING sing can do encore well but kpop Stans ain't ready for that conversation
I honestly don't think it's about "perfection" but rather the fact that we are in a generation consisting of primarily dance-oriented groups and companies know that their artists' vocal techniques are underdeveloped but don't want to invest into long term vocal training It goes without say that it's embarrassing for the idols too to sing off pitch and companies would want to mitigate those performances not necessarily for the sake of "perfection"
aespa's recording behind are always the most entertaining recording behinds and it's probably the most times you'll see aespa's vocals better than in performances. That's why I look forward to it the most every time they release a new song
All members are actually soo good at it ( they even change their voices to suit the song n catch whatever the producer says fast n that's why every recording producer in SM loves working with them)
@@imjustherefortheks I think this just boils down to personal taste, because I really enjoy aespa's music, especially when driving. They're not my ult group either
@@kitchennewbie11 Oh, I love them... I have all their records... It is the only group that I have all the CDs... It is just that it is a pleasure to see them recording. Their voices are clearer and we can see how they build "vocal layers" and their "ad-libs" as well...
@@baeumonde this mainly has to do with k-pop stans spreading misinformation. quite a few k-pop stans who make claims about sakura's singing don't really know that much about music, so they say things like "sakura is struggling because HYBE writes songs that are out of her range" which dismisses the actual issue at hand.
CORRECT I saw an army posting a vocal ranking vid including NCT n BTS n guess who was the top 3 (all BTS member) n that op was "classically trained vocalist" 😭😭😭
@@Awakening_Sunshinerami did her adlibs many times during their fan meetings. The video is from their fan meeting in Seoul. She did also at Summer Sonic Festival and TMEA.
The “It’s Live” is so obvious that’s it’s not live when Red Velvet sang because you can hear the corrected pitch(idk why they didn’t just trust RV tbh).
Rami is really born to be onstage she is one of those who enjoy performing and singing and knows how to engage audience with her especially these days when even senior idols are afraid to change melodies or do some extra but there is rami so young but the way she changes melodies and notes sometime even extends it but she knows how to so that it sounds pleasing to others and sounds melodious. She is indeed yg's secret weapon
My thoughts on some of the opinions!!! 1. I completely agree with you that haneul needs to be given more time to shine, and I feel like it's possible for the other members to step up vocally, and bridge the gap between Belle and the rest of them, they just need some time. 2. Though the ktube community does needs to move on from the bashing of Sakura and the girls as a whole, I feel like HYBE does need to spend resources on getting them good vocal training rather then making a documentary which only highlights the things that HYBE isn't doing. 3. This is why I love encores, you can enjoy the rawness of the vocals, without worrying about whether it's edited or not. It also, weirdly, brings a sense of comfort knowing what their real vocals sound like. 4. YESSS SAY IT LOUDER!!!!! I feel the same but about New Jeans as well, I mean I love that both of the groups are giving us these amazing choreographies that are constantly pushing the boundaries of typical gg choreo but I can't help but feel sorry for them, especially since the choreos are getting harder each comeback. 6. You just reminded me how much I miss MAMAMOO 😭 7. I love watching aespa record, especially Ning Ning and Winter, they're so professional and dedicated to what they do, it's amazing, honestly. 11. It's depressing to see such gruesome acts happening to a person, that too by an idol a lot of us adored and supported. I just hope that the victims get the justice they deserve. Damn, this comment is getting really long, I should stop 😀 Byeeee
This comeback all the members of lsf have shown significant improvement. Also, people like you should also move on from "Constructive Criticism", we all are bored of hearing the same thing over and over again.
Hybe does have good vocal coaches but I think they focus more into dancing n select member based on that. I don't think even SM coaches could make Sakura sing like winter ( winter had no prior singing lessons but still got accepted by yoo younjin to be his student n he's veryyy picky).
@@Gabriella22794 there was no actual singing in that song n the choreo wasn't super hard so..... And the song is barely 2 min with the empty chorus and I'm sure any mid level vocal group can sing that song. 3/5 members are literally tone deaf and yunjin n chaewon are carrying the group
Most ’vocally strong groups‘ are just one or two members carrying the rest of the group. Etc. ateez, kiof, fromis_9, gfriend & riize . Lowkey even red velvet. This is what differentiates these groups with nmixx,aespa, zb1, mammamoo, (arguably baemon) etc.
especially for gfriend cause I need their fans to be forreal cause watching viviz on queendom really makes you really only two of the other former gfriend members actually carry 😬
I'm going to disagree with you on Ateez. Yes Jongho is a great vocalist and San is a wonderful lead vocalist (he actually is my favourite tone in Ateez). However I would not discount Yunho and Seonghwa for their stability and vocals and harmonizing (they do a lot of the backing vocals especial Yunho and San). Yeosang adds a wonderful bass line and backing vocals as well adding depth to Ateez's songs. Wooyoung adds the light airy feel to their songs and contributes to the backing vocals as well. If you listen to their killing voice you will see that all the members contribute to the harmonies that Ateez does so well. So I personally would consider Ateez to be a vocally driven group. But again that is just my opinion.
@@tamsocialmediavammmm... i can't agree, I would say that Ateez is one of the most noticeable cases of this. While San is a decent lead vocalist the gap with Jongho is LARGE, and overall his technique it's not fully there yet. While he's able to pull what he's given, and his tone might be nice to hear, his technique still needs a lot of polishment to consider him a notable lead vocalist (examples being Sullyoon in NMIXX and Karina in aespa). And regarding the rest of the members, while they might be helpful in doing harmonies, their technique alone it's still lacking and shows pretty clearly that they don't have the basics yet. Their tones might be helpful for them to blend the group's vocals, but that can be achieved with practice and preparation between them, but if they are decent enough vocalists they would be able to shine both on their own or together, which it's not the case. Their strenght definitely are sp, dance, and rapping, so by no means I'm saying they're untalented, but just as my favorite group, ONEUS, they don't shine a lot AS A GROUP in the vocal department (this is a curse for most of 4th gen groups though)
@@keonheehe In defense of San he has had to change his vocal technique due to almost getting nodules on his vocal cords (he discussed this in a v-live) he had bleeding on his vocal cords plus c0vid twice. So he had to change and adapt his vocal technique which takes time. I do know that tone and technique and different things and I know that Jongho had the best technique in Ateez. All that being said Ateez has come a long way from where they started and will continue to improve with time and hard work. I appreciate your response and it is always interesting to hear others opinions. I hope you have a great day, evening or night wherever you are.
@@tamsocialmediava the thing is his approach even before this, it's not strong enough (strong in quality, not in tone) his technique it's almost the same as before that I know of, in fact, I think it's even healthier than before with less strain and a bit lighter, but still, there's a lot of work for them to do to be vocally proficient, but it should be recognized that even in front of all of their struggles they are able to work hard on this to improve! They might lack a bit vocally now as a group (like I said, this is an issue with most k-pop groups since A WHILE) but hard work comes with a great prize in the end!. Have a good day/afternoon/night too!
Yeah Aespa’s recording behinds are great. I just saw a clip of NingNing recording her solo “Bored” the other day and it was STUNNING. But they’re all fun to watch in the studio simply because all 4 members are uniquely talented. Also, “bless Mamamoo.” Yes, just yes 🙌🥰
Live harmonies in 5th gen are rare but possible. I recommend everyone to watch EVNNE's second music show win encore for Ugly. The vocal linee made eye contact in the last chorus and was like 'yeah, lets do this' and delivered!
@@wonyorickyAlso the taerae show episode in hong kong was chefs kiss.. no backtrack no processing just the boys in a hotel room singing in front of a camera
@@aintnootherfanYou seriously need to check out the vocal power of 5th gen boy groups. ZB1 is easily among the most talented vocalists across all of the members, the two lead vocalists would've been a main vocalist had they be in any other known boy groups. Evnne has amazing vocalists, Riize blends in vocals very well, BND and TWS doesn't have standout vocalists but each of them are absolutely competent in keeping the vocal stability to life.
Haneul deserves more lines, I love her voice! Since NMIXX is already known as a great vocal group, despite nailing those difficult choreohraphies, I do agree that they don't really need more of it. Lily Bb5 @ 5:50 YASS!!! Red Velvet sounds better without all the vocal enhancements from Its Live performances.
I agree on everything minus the Sakura point. I think that people should stop bashing her and the group, yes, but the documentary the only thing it did was make me roll my eyes (and apparently not alone here). And Le SSerafim is one of my favorite groups in the scene right now music-wise. I am the same age as Sakura, 26, and I have followed her since Produce, where she was floating many times because of her popularity and not because of her skills, which never really improved (vocals especially, bc dance and stage present have been improved A LOT). I have seen her cry in 2 different documentaries, for the same reason, where we also never see her or the company try to do something about it, at this point I cannot feel empathy, I am sorry. She uploaded the Weverse comment and my first thought was "Girl, people are ash*les, but you too, need a bit of a reality check, you're not 15." In AKB48 vocals didn't matter, so she never worked on them, in produce she was mad popular so she didn't need to improve either, Iz*one had 12 members so people could cover for her and the lines were, of course, fewer, but now she needs to do something, bc there are 5 of them and only 2 are more comfortable with singing (and not always either). The documentary was a HUGE mistake, they should have just laid low, and have a comeback where the members were improved and shut everyone up IVE style. Instead, they uploaded a documentary where we see the company being incompetent and her having a pity party, again, just before their comeback.
Yeah, at this point, I really cant defend Sakura or LSF anymore, which is why Im not their fan any longer. Of course they wont work to improve when everyone is defending them instead of holding them to a certain standard or something. They dont have to be perfect by any means, but at least try?
@@glaciemdraco I still follow their music, because this comeback was just great 1-800-hot-n-fun is a bopitty bop, unlike the Easy/Smart era that was very mid-music-wise for my taste (and I think if the songs were better, the backlash would be less tbh) and along with everything else made the whole experience not fun. I just don't understand what they were thinking and made this, instead of pulling the girls back, so they can both chill and work better and improve. They are a huge group with a big company behind them, they should have found vocal coaches (not the joke we saw in the documentary), have a talk with the girls as well because Sakura's response wasn't it (I get that it's hard with all the hate, but the criticism however harsh is valid at this point), and have a comeback in October or something. During the summer everyone was talking about them still, why have a comeback this soon after the hate train? I don't get it.
While I agree with everything you said, I don't think we'll ever see significant improvement any time soon because HYBE truly doesn't care. Bang Sihyuk saying he believes talent isn't that important (even HYBE's slogan is "we believe in music") compared to star power. Recruiting Kazuha and Eunchae to have them train only 8 MONTHS before debut without any previous training or experience in singing, rapping or dancing (not counting Kazuha's Ballet cause it's a completely different type of dancing and doesn't help much in these kinds of choreographies). The simple fact that they even signed Sakura after such a career and having barely improved as well is enough for me to not expect anything from the group
@@salembejaoui1880 Sadly, I am not sure how much of an improvement we will see either, and it's a pity, bc the potential is there. From K-pop, darlings became a punching bag and the worst thing is that many of the criticisms are correct, not just baseless hate, as many people like to say.
But I don't understand why people still feel the need to bash her for her vocals everywere. The whole group got more criticism than ever for they vocals. Why not just wait till the next encore and see instead of saying everywere that they don't want to improve?
3:00 omg thank you i was waiting for someone to say this! I couldn't watch the cosmic performance till the end bc it felt so artificial it was not at all what i was hoping for
@senjuuzima891 They don't sound bad at all in this performance. Y'all give all the views to these weaker sounding 4th generation groups when Red Velvet absolutely slayed their It's Live stage. People even came after them on their Killing Voices stage and they ate that one up, too. I'm convinced kpop stans are allergic to good vocals and only want to support the younger generation who can sound good, too, but definitely lacking the soul it takes to be a great singer like a lot of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation idols. There are very few singers in this newer generation that can sing like Red Velvet, Exo, Mamamoo, Shinee, etc. This whole video is wack asf!
I will never like how much kpop lacks live vocal performances and how “live performances” and almost never live. I think I’m just too used to hearing my favorite vocalist singing live almost 24/7 so it’s always jarring how kpop is so much lipsyncing lmao
K-pop groups nowadays have 100 schedules n concert n cb after every few months (companies either don't wanna ruin their voices like SM do or they don't care n make them sing few lines in between the backtrack like HYBE does) aespa has the busiest schedule in 2024 n are gonna cb in oct with a mini n tour AGAIN (n their hyperlink tour is still going on 😭😭😭)
It honestly depends on the groups and company. SM idols lipsync first week and the second week sing live, some idols from other companies also follow that. Like I remember Le Sserafim in Unforgiven era lipsync first week and then sing live second week. Girls Generation, Super Junior and EXO often followed that formula (coming from an EXO-L). I think Loona also do the same, they lipsync first week to show their dance and then sing live second week. 4th and 5th gen idols who often sing live are NMIXX, Ateez, TXT, Itzy, StayC, ZeroBaseOne, Xikers, (G)i-dle and Stray Kids. There are also groups where only some idols sing live like in Twice we have Jeongyeon, Nayeo, Jihyo and sometimes Tzuyu who sing live and in Le Sserafim we have Chaewon, Yunjin and Eunchae who sing live. Meanwhile some groups like Aespa lipsync music shows, but sing live on other places like university performances.
idk when you got into k-pop but live singing used to be way more common. I believe around 4th gen is when it got bad and it somehow continues to get worse apart from a few groups who sing live consistently enough.
NMixx is the goat gg when it comes to live vocals with difficult choreography. They’re great at harmonies and acapella too. I’ve watched kpop since late 1st Gen and they’re the cream of the crop. It’s unfortunate they don’t have the discography like Lesserafim.
2:53 finally I thought I was the only who noticed 😭 That performance was hella post-processed especially Wendy's part 😭 which SUCKS coz she's a very capable vocalist
Every single one of those "It's live" or "Killing Voice" performances is edited to some degree. But nobody has ever accused Wendy or the rest of Red Velvet of not being able to sing.
Because of Kpop and it’s emotionally unstable fans, people have to go out of their way to incessantly tell people the very obvious fact that their views they put in a video are “opinion” This has become so common now, any form of conversation in kpop can go left should you leave out the very obviously known fact of you not being an accredited critic. It’s become so insane when facts are actually introduced you must go through a twenty minute argument to convince someone the words you’re saying come from actual facts. The only way this changes is to ignore these nobs and speak your view without letting them know if the obvious is obvious is enough. We know it’s an opinion and those who don’t will have to figure out how to catch up with the adults some day.
Mamamoo has never been vocally underrated a day in their lives. Their name is pretty much synonymous with great vocals and even people who have never heard one of their songs has heard of them being great singers. The problem with vocal groups is that they tend to be at smaller companies and don't try to go with whatever type of music is popular. I mean you can play Ate That or Jopping on a Stradivarius but having the best instrument doesn't elevate the material. You need material to match the quality of the vocals and so vocal groups tend to be more obscure. Out of all the current groups I feel that Dreamcatcher(one of the best in terms of variety, skills, and experience), ARTMS(the level of residual hatred stans have for Orbits is sad bc the ladies are innocent and so talented), and H1-KEY(they're new but I feel that a few years will yield amazing growth) might be underrated vocally and unknown outside of their fandoms. Edit: my songs of the summer are cocowater by Wheein, Is This Love? by Moonbyul, Classified by Oh My Girl!, and Justice by Dreamcatcher. They're not in any order and I don't rank things so these are just my faves. I was hoping for Hwasa but she moved her comeback to September bc solo stans are awful and ruined the one time two Mamamoo soloists came back at the same time. 😢
Hwasa's been pushing her comeback date back for over half a year now, I highly doubt her september date is because she's avoiding another member's comeback. She hadn't even filmed her mv by the time Moonbyul finished promotions lol. If there was any scheduling issue in trying to avoid another artist it probably would have been Heize since PNation can really only handle one of their artists at a time. Even then, I doubt it considering how they obviously haven't been sitting on an already filmed mv just waiting to release it for months.
Song of Summer - SOLAR - BLUES (concert version) where she keeps belting and increasing her time of her vibrato or COLORS. I keep swapping between vocal to club depending on my mood. 6:00 MAMAMOO PLEASE COME BACK 😭 I agree Mamamoo isn't underrated vocally. They are the best vocal group of 3rd gen. BUT they definitely are underrated in terms of popularity which makes them underappreciated.
I love how you can be honest and critical of kpop vocals (unlike many delusional stans), while also being respectful to the idols as people, and not shitting on people for liking them despite their lack of singing talent. As someone who's been taking vocal lessons for a long time, in addition to being in choir/an acapella group for a fair number of years, the way people lie to themselves about vocal talent in kpop really bothers me. Seeing someone regularly sing off-key, struggle to project or hold notes, or just struggle in general, while their fans claim that they're an incredible vocalist and everybody saying otherwise is a hater, is pretty annoying. But it's also annoying when people act like an idol being bad at singing means that they're lazy, untalented, and don't deserve to be liked is even more annoying. I really appreciate how you can be both honest, critical, and respectful.
Unpopular (not related to vocals) opinion: Most idols from small to medium companies do not make any money at all, except for those who could maintain popularity for a long while. I can say this with full confidence, the truth behind how much money members of Crayon pop, Momoland, Stellar, or Loona actually made during their career is enough to prove that.
That depends on the company honestly. Some groups from small companies like Mamamoo, Oh My Girl, Dreamcatcher, Girls Day and Ateez do earn money. I think it also depends on popularity like Mamamoo and Ateez are popular groups. Oh My Girl and Girls Day have had hit songs.
For sm, i heard it before during 2nd gen, they arent allowed to do that much of a adlibs or sudden change. Its formulaic and standardize according to sm’s order. I dunno if this happens today
Definitely the thing for their younger/current hottest groups but the older ones and more vocally inclined have always played with their adlibs accdg to preference. Especially for their concerts or non comeback performances. You can see that with shinee, rv and taeyeon, exo also does this a lot. I think I saw a clip or two from aespa's recent concert where they also tried to change it up but definitely not so obvious.
as someone who is accustomed to the south asian and bollywood singers from childhood. It was shocking for me to see how kpop idols for the most part do not sing live and when they do it never really impresses me. I know these are to different industries but hell the vocal standards for kpop are so low. its a culture shock almost.
To the point about BtoB not being underrated as vocalists, I think it kind of depends on how you define “underrated.” Is it “lack of mainstream recognition for their talent” or is it more like “rated too low on an individual level by people who see them sing but don’t recognize how impressive their vocal talent really is.” Like anyone who sees Eunkwang sing will say he’s a fantastic vocalist. But I hardly ever see “best Kpop vocalist” lists that even include him in the ranking. Personally I would say that unpopularity and lack of recognition is a form of being “underrated” as a vocalist.
Haneul's case is so disheartening because at the beginning of their career (KIOF) she was getting proper line now I just don't get where or what S2 is trying to do with her VOCALLY. Like is Shhh she was present now in sticky her vocals are almost nowhere to be seen.
@@aurora__night3423 Well their company clearly favours Julie and Natty more than the other two. Belle still shines because her vocal skills being far from the other members. But Haneul needs the company to let her shine more.
It happens to All kpop groups Company Favourites always get more line than others (though others are capable of or even better) Its not company's fault also because Favourite members are generally way more popular Its All about Business
Speaking of harmonies I think we need to talk about Nmixx 😭 when they try to do them live they end up sounding a MESS. Now I appreciate their effort and they’re definitely the only group that can even put together a decent harmony but my girls need practice on blending.
lily and haewon the only good on harmonies .. i think the others still on learning but since LMLT until SEE THAT i can see their improvement 😊 i hope they will get better and better on harmonies
I know this isn't an unpopular opinion, but if Kpop fans want more true live vocals, we need to try and make sure things like the LSF Coachella hate train don't get blown out of proportion. Disappointment and criticism is one thing, but when a group gets absolutely shat on for what amounted to a few bad moments, it really disincentivises companies from taking the risk.
I feel hanuel needs more lines, but I don’t agree that kiss of life relies only on belle. Natty and hanuel may not be as strong and versatile as belle, but they can sing and sing live better than many female k pop groups. Julie isn’t a singer but rapper so I wouldn’t expect her to be vocally strong, but she can still hold a tune and sing okay.
A really important part of the Aespa/Karina behind the recording video was to see how great she interacted with the producer. And how clear the instructions the producer gave were and how she then was guided to her best.
2:40 is sooo true. I see way too many of these K-pop opinion channels trying to be "blunt" and "brutally honest," but it just comes off as really embarrassing tbh. You can be constructive while still being a decent person. The lack of empathy with some of these people is crazy.
Riize has great live vocals and harmonies, and they perform live well with advanced choreography to boot. They have 2 videos on The First Take, hope you can check them out! :)
1. But that's because of the fans and the company being way too happy with Belle being the "Korean Ariana Grande" and the company relying way too much on the popularity of the members, they see Natty and Belle are the most popular and now Julie, so they make use of them and get stuck in there..... it pisses me off so much how they don't give more chances to Haneul, just 'cause she isn't as popular as the rest 4. Yeah... but they pull it off great 🤷🏻♀️
Happy to have you back from your vacation, and I hope it was grand! Always love the honest and blunt commentary, especially on the fan scene as much as the idols. Pretty recently, in an interview about Deadpool and Wolverine, Ryan Reynolds commented that he's been famous for years, but after doing the music video with Stray Kids and seeing what kind of fame they have, it was absolutely insane and he 'didn't know how they do it every day'. I think that's such a HUGE problem - the obsession with idols and their lives is terrifying to me, and I wish they could have some level of normalcy in the little down time they get instead of dealing with what they do. Keep being 'savage' and hitting us with those hard to hear facts!
About the recording behind I really suggest you to watch to Shinee's behind the scenes for the Hard album. The amount of layers of vocals is so impressive
the importance of voice lessons for singers cannot be understated. vocal lessons can help weaker singers improve but they are equally as important for strong singers. it doesn't matter how much natural talent you have, singing is a skill and you can't figure everything out on your own. you need to learn proper technique or you are going to ruin your voice. even beyonce has a vocal coach.
@@Gabriella22794 and they're the only one who has theee best encores, LIVE vocal runs n harmonies 👀 Tell me a group that can sing 100% live without backtrack n post production like TVXQ....
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670me can, they are suju, shinee, exo, snsd 😂 (sorry i couldnt add nct cz its difficult seeing their perf live singing 100% with no bactrack at all altho I believe the could do it and riize is stil new)
2:34 she’s an adult woman that’s been in the industry for more than 10 years at this point it is up to her to take initiative and improve her vocals 🤷♀️
Aww, don't be jealous just bcoz she is more famous and making more money than you. If you don't like her then just don't listen to lsfm, is it that hard?
most so-called "vocalists" in kpop these days also only has 1 trick vocal tone. just shows the lack of vocal talent or skill and their fans still praise them like they are vocal geniuses. 💀
The interaction of the producers and Aespa is so amusing to watch. The directions are so on-point and they know what to say in order to bring their voices to the fullest potential. Not only that, the singers are very intelligible and their skills back them up to execute those directions. It's so satisfying to watch.
Minute 5:33 I'm so proud of being a BABYMONSTER's fan... they are so talented, I love the fact that they can sing LIVE and perform perfectly well at the same time, I'M SO PROUD OF THEM.
we desperately need mamamoo back in the scene. there are some amazing new groups nowadays and i don’t want to discredit anyone, but there’s just something so unique about mamamoo. they bring so much energy and life to live performances, their stage presence is less “staged” and more realistic. you can really see how passionate they are about music, i really miss that type of energy.
If you love harmonies, I recommend to checkout BINI !! I know it's not kpop but they are literally as competent as nmixx as a vocal group. They literally have 3 vocalists in the same level of Lily and Haewon. I highly recomment "Lagi" for live harmonies and excellent live vocals.
My honest opinion! No hate! Kpop is not only about VOCALS. THERES so much more into it. So a decent vocal technique is a necessity if a idol has a position of a sub vocal or a vocalist but if they are a rapper, and FORCED to sing than a criticism for them is not what should be appreciated. If they are a dancer than focusing more on there vocal technique is not what you should waste your time on. A perfect kpop group means a perfect balance of everything. Not just vocals. And nowadays everything is a mess because everyone is a ALL-ROUNDER. yes there are people who can do everything but not everyone is like that!. It's the companies who's at fault not the idols. Because at the end of the day idols are just some employees.
During 2nd gen even the sub vocalist could sing THEIR PART very well n had 2-3 decent vocalist which is nowadays RARE. Illit main vocalist would be a sub vocalist in aespa, nmixx, red velvet, mamamoo, snsd, twice..... Even enhypen n TXT main vocalist are soo weak compared to their senior BTS n seventeen main vocalist. SM latest bg RIIZE has the weakest main vocalist in SM HISTORY (even though he's top3 in 5th gen) It's just both company and fans are now more into performance perspective rather than vocal/rap skills
Also no one would criticise RM zico, mark, changbin if they can't sing cuz they're ACTUAL RAPPER rather than kazuha, eunchae, minji, niki, ryujin, yeri,..... Who got that position cuz they're the weakest vocalist in the group 👀
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670Sorry to say, but that is not the case for many and I do mean many groups in the 2nd gen. There's a difference between being a good live singer and a good vocalist
Belting in every song does not equate to a better singer. No doubt Belle is the best singer at a technical level, but to say Natty and Julie aren't even close is a wild take and more of a general trending problem where people believe if someone doesn't sing loud and high, then they are inferior. I will agree that Haneul is criminally underutilized though. Same goes for Rora in Baemon. Give these girls some lines!
But it's true tho. Natty, Julie and Haneul are really far from Belle. Compare them to gg Nmixx, Aespa or Mamamoo and you can hear the difference. Literally just look at their Sticky encore, Natty was struggling like crazy
Disagree about Sakura. I don’t feel bad for her when she says things like “We’re rookies” and “We just want to have fun” I want to have fun at your concert to Sakura but your vocals are so distracting and not in a good way. She’s been in this industry as long as some idols have been alive and she just cries instead of really putting in the work. If she took just a half hour a day to practice her vocals, in about a year we would see massive vocal improvement. I guarantee you she has a half hour of free time, she just won’t or she would’ve done something a decade and a half ago 🤷♀️
Here is my opinion on kpop vocals, people should be fine if one or two of the members can't sing great. As long as they perform well, sing decently and connect to the fans that should be fine. And companies' should normalize labeling their idols as purely visuals so they have a reason to give them minimal lines. Idols can still thrive in performing by just being at the center. Take for example Sakura, imo she owns the Crazy comeback cause it fits her aesthetic and is just full of charisma even with the few lines she got. I am not a fan of the song but i did enjoy watching it.
The problem with that is that fans of those idols who are labeled "visuals" by the company will complain and say they need more screen time and lines in songs. If said visuals don't have enough (in the fans, opinion) lines in songs and screen time, they will say that they are being mistreated by the company.
That "purely visuals" label idea would be the fking worst if that gets done. Imagine how many beautiful, handsome and hardworking idols would be the target of hateful lowlife internet junkies just because they look beautiful. Even if they have decent skills in singing and dancing, haters will still hate because they hold that "visual" only position. "What's his/her role in the group? Just to stand and look beautiful?" I kinda get your opinion on that and I'm pretty sure you meant no harm. But that's just going to be a very big match for haters to start a fire. Hence, Im gonna say that'd be the worst idea for companies to do in the idol industry.
@@ProteinShak3 the thing about haters right now is that their criticisms are justified cause all idols have vocals or rappers on their label. But if you label someone as pure visuals, those haters will only look stupid and hateful for no reason. Idols are meant to entertain and connect to people and be admired by them. It's not solely locked on being great at singing and dancing on stage. Maybe having those labels would spark a change with how people view idols.
@@jaco2174 nope, they are idols and are expected to be able to sing & dance good/well, if not great/exceptional, to a certain extent. That's just an invitation for people to continue with the criticism and judging. Even now with idols who hold the visual title, still receive such harsh criticisms when most of them even showed improvements in their singing and dancing skills. Look at Jisoo from BP and Tzuyu from Twice, they tackled the 'they're only pretty' criticism ever since debut and even now, some people continue to do so when both of them showed pretty consistent improvements on their singing and dancing skills. You can never change those people's minds with just that. They won't stop with the hate, so the best thing that an idol could do is show those people that even if they were considered to be only pretty/handsome, they too, could show improvements and gain approval from those people. But even with tremendous improvements, they can never escape that criticism bc some people would never accept truths and will only believe what they want to believe. It will never vanish in the idol industry. That's why their best choice is to improve first and improve even more.
thought i was the only one that thought aespa's recordings were so superior.. i don't even watch their content but i'll be catching every recording vid. i was so shocked by how well they sing when i watched Better Things recording, which is saying something because i already knew they sand well
Can u please do a video on 2NE1? They have great vocals, plus the main Vocalist Park Bom has a very distinct unique voice that you will never hear anywhere else, I’d love to hear your opinion on them.
Day idk asking for you to cover Brown Eyed Girls vocals. One of the most underrated vocal groups nowadays imo. When u included that Sixth Sense Belle clip I was like I *need* the coverage of the original group who sang it. As a fellow singer, I love ur vids btw
I love it too when live performances add something to the original track ! There are studio versions of SHINee songs I don't listen too anymore since I listened to some live versions because the live versions are so much better ! The best example would be Like a Fire : the studio version is so bland after you listened to the live version with the members adding their little ad-libs here and there. Excuse Me Miss is famous also for the bridge Jonghyun added for the live version... Sherlock (Clue + Note) is also a SHINee song with iconic enough performances to the point the studio version can sometimes seems bland One of the reasons I got into Mamamoo is also for the times they sometimes add little things to the live performances... It's so fun and nice to listen too ! SHINee and Mamamoo are two groups I would love to hear in a concert !
One thing that Hybe boy group fans need to accept once and for all is that the vocal problem isn't just with girl groups. The only difference is that when boy groups sing live they sound less worse than girl groups, but technically they are just as bad or even worse. TXT is the group with the best live performance and stability in the company (apart from Seventeen and Fromis9), but that doesn't negate the fact that their best singer is extremely technically weak. They all have an unbearable nasality, none of them have support, their agility is non-existent, there are women with much better low scores. Enhypen has the same problem as TXT, but it ends up being worse because some of them are inaudible. BTS, despite being the group that has been in the company the longest (which makes everything more shameful), continues to have one of the worst vocal lines in the world. Jungkook and Taehyung are the only ones who have any technique in the group, but they aren't even average. Jungkook has an unbearable nasality, confusing agility, poorly made and messy runs, he has support but it's very limited, I don't remember seeing him hit a note from F4 onwards, that On bridge is a nightmare. Taehyung is technically generally better than Jungkook, his stamina is terrible, (unlike Jungkook) he has the best low notes of the group as well as breathing control which is not something to be congratulated on, the nasality only appears when he tries reach higher notes which he shouldn't do because he doesn't have the support for that, Stigma's high note is a nightmare part 2. Jin comes soon after, to begin with he doesn't have the support, he's very nasal (despite being smaller than Jungkook and Jimin's nasality), weak low notes, weak breath control, he also shouldn't be singing the high parts he sings in the songs, Crystal Snow's triple high note that the armys keep talking about is just him screaming a lot. Then comes J-hope and Jimin, there's nothing to say, they're simply horrible. Talking about Seventeen Dk and Seungkwan technically carry the group but the others at least manage to guarantee themselves live, just like Jiwon carries Fromis9 but the girls guarantee themselves live. And before anyone comes to say anything, know that I listen to Faouzia, David Phelps, Mariah Carey, Davichi and Dinah Jane, my standard is on another level, what I'm saying is a fact because unlike liking a voice, the technique of Vocal is not an opinion but a fact (that's because I didn't even mention belting, vibrato, etc.). If you don't accept this, you will read, study about it and also increase your standard, because it is coming to hell.
Agree 100% The ’hybe gg vs hybe bg‘ video made me laugh (apart from svt who isn’t even really a hybe group but more so pledis) the encores were stable yes but very hard to listen. Such overwhelming nasal tones & straining. The hard reality kpop fans should absorb is that txt ,enhypen and BTS are just as vocally incompetent as Illit & lesserafim. They’re just ’more stable‘. Even new jeans outsings every hybe bg (again not svt) & they have much more pleasant vocal colours. Jimins encore was arguably the worst I’ve ever heard of but it was quickly glossed over with stupid excuses like he ‘couldn’t hear his ear in‘. I’ll give BTS abit of slack tho because they have a strong rapline.
Perfect analysis. I always thought Jungkook was an okay vocalist, not a great one. Look at his standing next to your remix with Usher . Usher absolutely vocally outdid him on his on track. I remember my sister played the remix, and I thought it was Jungkook singing Usher's part ... I was shook only to find out it was Usher 😂😂. Army's were mad because Usher overshadowed JK.
big bts fan here (wouldn’t call myself an army anymore) but everything you said about them was pretty much right. 😭 it’s frustrating that they have the potential to be better but it’s too late at this point especially being under hybe and with the members seemingly not doing much to improve.
But I'm confused I heard Jungkook singing standing next to you and he sounded amazing. I also remember watching Vocal Coach on TikTok defending Jungkook and saying his technique is amazing. Also, Justin Burke is just, in general, praising Bts, seventeen, and other hype groups. I just don't understand where you're coming from really. I believe Bts, seventeen, and Txt have some of the strongest vocals in their generation.
@@devineoyediran2323 Many people (including vocal coaches) will always congratulate and say good things that are not true about famous celebrities to gain engagement. This happens with BTS too, all the videos and publications where people tell the truth about the vocal technique of these artists are always taken down or the content creator himself takes them down because of harassment and hate from crazy fans who cannot accept the truth. Artists with great technique, such as David Phelps, Dinah Jane, Faouzia, Tori Kelly and Jojo, don't have as many vocal analyzes as artists like BTS, BLACKPINK, TXT, Camila Cabello, Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber (who aren't even technically decent singers), and do you know why? Because these real vocalists don't have as much fame as these mediocre singers.
Ngl the editing of Red Velvet's Cosmic live vid was so unnecessary... It took away the magic from their voices and made them sound so robotic 🥲 You can clearly hear Seulgis voice fighting against the autotune / pitch edits 😂
i discovered p-pop they're afraid of backtracks and dancing while singing is like a walk in a park for them.. i know it's crazy to say this now but give them the styling and production that kpop groups have bruh.... raw talents are crazyyy. y'all need to be open to anything sometimes these groups deserve to be recognized i mean right now they're making waves and im excited to see what's going to happen (im a kpop fan btw)
Live harmonies are simply the norm in P-pop and that's so refreshing! SB19 set the standard for live harmonies and I love that newer groups like BINI and ALAMAT are following suit. Even nugu groups like Yes My Love (vocal kings!) and ECLYPSE are brimming with talent and eat live harmonies for breakfast. So happy that they're starting to make a name for themselves! Do yourself a favor and listen to Yes My Love's cover of "O Holy Night" and ECLYPSE's cover of "Saan?" and more recently, "Liham".
Just my rants: 1. Natty and Julie can't sing that well, but they are defining a new position in k-pop girl group - lead/main twerker. 2. I believe that RV is originally recorded live, and with a live band. They may have MR and the recording may be edited further, but the original should be live. Can't tell me Wendy's high note toward the end is not live.
They kind of go too far with the “mature” concept in kiss of life. I like their music and stuff but I don’t feel comfortable watching their performances because of the choreography sometimes. Their dance challenges aren’t much different too.
In regards to Taeil, can we drop the term “dating scandals”? What’s going on with Taeil, THAT’S a scandal. We need to normalize K-pop idols having a love life. It should NOT be considered a scandal. It’s okay to have crushes but you don’t know these people. You need to except the fact that you ARE never going to marry them.
![[Part 1] รักมาไม่ทันตั้งตัว❤ หนุ่มสาวโสดถูกจับมาแต่งงานกันกะทันหัน แถมเธอยังเป็นหัวหน้าของเขา?!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y2pOOMkuFI0/mqdefault.jpg)
Nmixx members actually said that they practiced singing while running a lot for this specific comeback because of the choreo being so hard and it definitely paid off. I love these girls so much and I am glad they're finally starting to get the recognition they deserve.
The fact that NMIXX, the group who's known for doing wacky choreos while hitting the necessary notes since debut, admits they NEED more cardio and breath training shows how high the standards should be. There hasn't been a single performance they didn't completely nail down and it shows.
They're doing that Destiny's Child training
As a Shawol, it makes me happy to call mysef a new Nswer. They really understand what it takes to be an idol and if all goes well, they will have longevity too.
@@glaciemdracothat is the goal for NMIXX and Nswers. were after that longevity. they're playing the long game, making connections in the industry and slowly but surely gaining popularity with the GP with Haewon leading the way (Workdol) and the girls not far behind
Also I feel like NMIXX’s choreos are not appreciated enough, especially because ITZY is “the dance group”. Like, those choreos are HARD!
2:47 is exactly why nowadays kpop stans care so much about encores…its one of the rare moments we get to see our idols sing live😭
Sooo true n hybe Stans wanna Gaslight us into thinking that their faves can sing while dancing PERFECTLY but can't talk-sing during an encore 👀
In most hybe groups there only 1 or 2 decent vocalist n that's all. (Sometimes not even decent like heesung, minju n taehyun are lead vocalist material)
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670. How can they gaslight you into thinking something you already know isn’t true.
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670Taehyun and Heeseung are decent vocalists. Enhypen and TXT also have other good vocal members like Hueningkai, Yeonjun, Sunoo and Jungwon. Enhypen are also stable and their encores are good too. TXT also have many good live performances. True about Minju that she is just lead vocal at best, I wish Hybe debuted Jiwoo and Chanelle instead of the dozen Wonhee. Illit would had way better vocals then. Cause Yuna and Minju can’t hardcarry the whole group.
@@vixxexo6855svt vocal line, fromis9 vocal line and jungkook are quite literally the only ones who can actually sing
@@vixxexo6855wonhee literally sings better than iroha and Moka fym
I feel like people forget Haneul is a good vocalist too when they see Belle. If Haneul isn't singing the same parts as her or hitting the same high note, she goes unnoticed. Haneul is not exceptional or amazing, that's true, but she's still good enough to shine if she's given a chance. In Shhh, Belle has almost all of those difficult parts that showcase her vocals, but Haneul is also given her own sudden portion in the second verse that is acceptable enough as a way to show off hers. As they release more music, though, Haneul gets less and less time to shine (she doesn't need high notes or something, but I don't think a lead vocalist should have half the amount of lines as the member who sang the 3rd most in a group of 4). I'm OT4 and I really wish she was more utilized in their songs :|||
I think Haneul is also underrated as a vocalist because her vocal tone is slightly polarizing / not everyone’s taste. Belle stands out not only as someone who has incredible vocal prowess, but her vocal tone is one that’s more widely popular and familiar (Ariana reminiscent) yet extremely uncommon in k-pop. Haneul has a more common kpop vocal tone but it’s nasally which isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. People confuse tone with singing skill, sadly. It’s sort of like Soyeon - she’s quite skilled and competent vocally but she rarely gets recognized for that because her tone is quite polarizing.
I think if Haneul is given more chances to shine people will appreciate her vocals more.
I mean my criteria for vocals is different but I would say Haneul is what I'd expect from a lead or even main vocalist in Kpop. She really deserves more time to shine
I've even heard bopsky has a healthier belting technique than Belle
I wouldn't say on her own she's that impressive, however, she's too good for me to be feeling underwhelmed. Why does EVERY challenging line have to go to Belle when Haneul is capable of delivering them properly as well???
Also, idk if its just me but Belle sounds like her voice is getting tired from all the obnoxiously high singing. The high lines alone aren't the problem, but it's the frequency of them, for someone at her level. At abt E5 and higher, her pitch, vibratoo, stability and overall technique becomes rlly inconsistent and I hope they spend more dedicated time training that more since they can't seem to stop giving her those types of lines.
The thing is, tho... she's already so great below that note so idk why they think that she HAS to always be flexing range. I'd personally leave a descent amt of her high lines as options she can use to mix it up live if she so pleases, not as part of the official composition...
@@mingisfixon6452 I agree with you on this entire thing. There was a specific performance of Bad News where Belle sounded like her voice was absolutely in pain throughout the whole song, voice cracking frequently and clearly flat during the main high note. This is not the only performance where this happens, it's just the one that first comes to mind. Bad News's chorus is mostly D5s, so it makes enough sense that she wouldn't be able to sing it all the time (not to mention while trying to dance as best as she can too), but she definitely realized early on during that performance that her vocals were not going to be great for the higher parts that day and her resolve seemed to be that she would just ignore it. I really hope she's taking good care of her voice, it'd be a shame if this overexertion causes as much damage as it realistically could :|||
She's got a gorgeous lower and middle-range, and apart from Te Quiero and some other b-sides, you don't get to hear it as much. I guess they HAVE given her less crazy high notes after Midas Touch, but even then, Sticky is just one song. Who knows what sort of song she'll have to sing next come back?
As for Haneul, it's true that she's not incredibly impressive, but she's a capable vocalist who still seems to have a lot to show that just isn't being shown at all. I'm not saying that she should be given super difficult parts, but based on performances, she's reasonably comfortable when it comes to higher notes and would probably be okay to sing them every now and then. While it's not necessary for a lead vocalist to be belting high notes all the time (or the main vocalist as well), when Belle is the main vocalist and that's the bar that is set, something should absolutely be done to showcase Haneul's talents better. Belle outshines all her members when it comes to vocals (not her fault, of course), but Natty and Julie have their own respective areas that they're known for. I really hope Haneul gets to shine a little better eventually, she's absolutely got the potential (and fairly enough skill already). Plus, both her and Belle are still very young (maybe not for a K-Pop idol, but we all know where THAT bar is) and have a lot of time to improve and develop. We'll see how this goes :>
The way haneul could easily be help Belle about vocal heavy parts but s2 giving too much pressure on her… I know Belle want that parts as it is her own right but SOMETIMES there are parts which would have suited haneul be given to Belle… just let neul help belle out
it reminds me when in their encore belle lost her voice so haneul helped her with the chorus
Haneul is not a push over...
You can never go wrong with EXO and MAMAMOO - vocal skills, harmonies, and ad libs ❤
And it’s not just live either, so many kpop songs sound so empty because there’s a stark lack of harmonisation, especially in the choruses, or adlibs to spice up different parts of the song even in the studio edition. I swear half the new songs I hear have absolutely no difference between the final chorus and the rest of the song because there are no vocalists in the group who can pull off some extra adlibs, and the only time the group sings together is when they’re chanting. I just want some layered vocals, is that not the whole point of listening to a group and not a soloist?
@_dont_mind_me Stan Red Velvet, Mamamoo, Exo, Shinee, XG, Kiof, and NCT Units. You won't be disappointed.
@@eyebrowstj already stan exo and listen to most of those groups 😊
I was in a professional choir in college, so complex harmonies are a big deal to me. The bridge in EXO's Tempo really gave me chills. These days, I've been loving Riize, they're so good!
The taeil situation is honestly so messed up....
Taeil is under investigating and the police has not said anything of him being guilty or not. Let us remain neutral and not send Taeil uneccesary hate.
@@vixxexo6855 SM kicked him out...
@@vixxexo6855 the police called him after gathered the evidence so...
@@allamandaferian6361 gathered him... After that? How many people have been summoned by the police? Wait until it's official.
@@vixxexo6855 i feel like although it's important to remain neutral and not send Taeil any hate, we have to acknowledge that SM had him kicked out (even if news says it was a mutual agreement). cube, hybe, and even SM have stood by their idols when faced with bullying accusations, sex crimes, drug abuse, until 1. it's been too long to change the public opinion (soojin) or 2. it's been proven definitively that the accused idol was guilty/innocent. taeil on the other hand, was kicked out almost as soon as news about him came out. not to mention even his friends unfollowed him (although that isn't very convincing bc idols need to keep their image). i'm not hating on him, it's just that i can't help but feel it's best to kinda disconnect myself from NCT for a while.
I'm 100% with you on the need for more harmonies, ad-libs, and a desire to hear more live singing. Does this mean I just want EVERY group to be a clone of Mamamoo?
I think STAYC has a lot of potential to deliver in these areas. They already have a nice range of voices in the group.
I think it's mainly because most of 4th gen consist of dance oriented groups
It's live is really getting on my nerves like ??? Why retouching voices if it's supposed to be live?
Yeah it makes them sound kind of robotic. Especially when a vocalist that can actually sing on pitch perfectly like winter, lily, wendy have that post production it makes their voice even more robotic than other or is it just me....
Fr😑
mamamoo's greeting was literally a harmony of their name that they sang every. single. time they introduced themselves, they were so unmatched..
Rami is literal powerhouse of Babymonster i swear to God, the way she keeps adding something new to every live perfomance and gives it all like there's no tomorrow❤🔥 *QUEEN*
Trueee
one of my gripes with kpop as a whole is that a lot of groups do not take advantage of them being groups. They rely on it to not make it apparent when someone cant perform on their own, but they rarely actually use the full range of voices, singing/rapping styles and dancing styles that would come with being a group. They throw random people togehter where some dont fit the concept, some do, some are able to pull off concepts and changes, some do not and give little to no support to get them to a point where they can work in unity. And because of that, its so easy for toxic fans to pick out one person and blame them for anything, rather than the company, who makes most of the decisions. A lot of problems would be resolved if the companies would care more to make use of one of their defining factors. I wanna add that i feel like most groups that do good in that regard are groups whose members are taking part in the production of the songs, or groups that have a very thought through concept, rather than just "girl crush" or "cute" or whatever. Something where the muscial style is very defined and then build upon
2:49 These days the companies are so obsessed with perfection that even in the "album recording behind" videos, pitch correction is used. So when we hear the idols in the recording studio, we think those are their raw vocals but they are not. It's sad how fans have forgotten what ACTUAL live vocals sound like.
I think only encore stage doesn't have post production (except mnet) and people who can really SING sing can do encore well but kpop Stans ain't ready for that conversation
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670 yep
I honestly don't think it's about "perfection" but rather the fact that we are in a generation consisting of primarily dance-oriented groups and companies know that their artists' vocal techniques are underdeveloped but don't want to invest into long term vocal training
It goes without say that it's embarrassing for the idols too to sing off pitch and companies would want to mitigate those performances not necessarily for the sake of "perfection"
Wait what album recording behinds got pitch corrected??
Not every group, group like aespa, nmixx,rv, mamamoo don't need this corection. They got wonderfull tone, and don't need to much autotone.
aespa's recording behind are always the most entertaining recording behinds and it's probably the most times you'll see aespa's vocals better than in performances. That's why I look forward to it the most every time they release a new song
Sometimes, more interesting than the song itself...
All members are actually soo good at it ( they even change their voices to suit the song n catch whatever the producer says fast n that's why every recording producer in SM loves working with them)
@@imjustherefortheks I think this just boils down to personal taste, because I really enjoy aespa's music, especially when driving. They're not my ult group either
@@kitchennewbie11 Oh, I love them... I have all their records... It is the only group that I have all the CDs... It is just that it is a pleasure to see them recording. Their voices are clearer and we can see how they build "vocal layers" and their "ad-libs" as well...
another point for the second opinion:
k-pop stans usually don't know jackshit about music, so there's that too.
genuine question what does kpop stans not “knowing about music” have to do with her bad vocals?
And add the lies and misinformation they spread on top of that.
@@baeumonde this mainly has to do with k-pop stans spreading misinformation. quite a few k-pop stans who make claims about sakura's singing don't really know that much about music, so they say things like "sakura is struggling because HYBE writes songs that are out of her range" which dismisses the actual issue at hand.
CORRECT
I saw an army posting a vocal ranking vid including NCT n BTS n guess who was the top 3 (all BTS member) n that op was "classically trained vocalist" 😭😭😭
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670 oh no 😂
Rami’s adlibs>>>>>
What performance is that from?
@@Awakening_Sunshine idk I’ve been trying to find it😭
@@Awakening_Sunshinerami did her adlibs many times during their fan meetings. The video is from their fan meeting in Seoul. She did also at Summer Sonic Festival and TMEA.
@@cannycounter nice. She didn’t do any of them on music shows, which is too bad
@@Awakening_Sunshine music shows are mostly pre-recorded, that's why.
The “It’s Live” is so obvious that’s it’s not live when Red Velvet sang because you can hear the corrected pitch(idk why they didn’t just trust RV tbh).
Ikr
I loved when he referred to the harmonies and said blessed Mamamoo.
Rami is really born to be onstage she is one of those who enjoy performing and singing and knows how to engage audience with her especially these days when even senior idols are afraid to change melodies or do some extra but there is rami so young but the way she changes melodies and notes sometime even extends it but she knows how to so that it sounds pleasing to others and sounds melodious. She is indeed yg's secret weapon
Harmonies, improvised note, stability, stamina, bts recording, a cappella, even no music backtrack, guess the girl group?
NMIXX? 😌
Nmixx,mamamo
NMIXX 🐋
Mamamoo
Dreamcatcher or mamamoo
My thoughts on some of the opinions!!!
1. I completely agree with you that haneul needs to be given more time to shine, and I feel like it's possible for the other members to step up vocally, and bridge the gap between Belle and the rest of them, they just need some time.
2. Though the ktube community does needs to move on from the bashing of Sakura and the girls as a whole, I feel like HYBE does need to spend resources on getting them good vocal training rather then making a documentary which only highlights the things that HYBE isn't doing.
3. This is why I love encores, you can enjoy the rawness of the vocals, without worrying about whether it's edited or not. It also, weirdly, brings a sense of comfort knowing what their real vocals sound like.
4. YESSS SAY IT LOUDER!!!!!
I feel the same but about New Jeans as well, I mean I love that both of the groups are giving us these amazing choreographies that are constantly pushing the boundaries of typical gg choreo but I can't help but feel sorry for them, especially since the choreos are getting harder each comeback.
6. You just reminded me how much I miss MAMAMOO 😭
7. I love watching aespa record, especially Ning Ning and Winter, they're so professional and dedicated to what they do, it's amazing, honestly.
11. It's depressing to see such gruesome acts happening to a person, that too by an idol a lot of us adored and supported. I just hope that the victims get the justice they deserve.
Damn, this comment is getting really long, I should stop 😀
Byeeee
This comeback all the members of lsf have shown significant improvement. Also, people like you should also move on from "Constructive Criticism", we all are bored of hearing the same thing over and over again.
Hybe does have good vocal coaches but I think they focus more into dancing n select member based on that. I don't think even SM coaches could make Sakura sing like winter ( winter had no prior singing lessons but still got accepted by yoo younjin to be his student n he's veryyy picky).
@@Gabriella22794 there was no actual singing in that song n the choreo wasn't super hard so..... And the song is barely 2 min with the empty chorus and I'm sure any mid level vocal group can sing that song.
3/5 members are literally tone deaf and yunjin n chaewon are carrying the group
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670
So? They still showed improvement. Are you gonna whine till they have un comeback were they belt with hard choreo?
I agree with you completelyyy❤❤❤
I agree with your comment on Haneul being under utilized in KIOF. I definitely want more lines from her bc her vocal tone is pretty
Most ’vocally strong groups‘ are just one or two members carrying the rest of the group. Etc. ateez, kiof, fromis_9, gfriend & riize . Lowkey even red velvet. This is what differentiates these groups with nmixx,aespa, zb1, mammamoo, (arguably baemon) etc.
especially for gfriend cause I need their fans to be forreal cause watching viviz on queendom really makes you really only two of the other former gfriend members actually carry 😬
I'm going to disagree with you on Ateez. Yes Jongho is a great vocalist and San is a wonderful lead vocalist (he actually is my favourite tone in Ateez). However I would not discount Yunho and Seonghwa for their stability and vocals and harmonizing (they do a lot of the backing vocals especial Yunho and San). Yeosang adds a wonderful bass line and backing vocals as well adding depth to Ateez's songs. Wooyoung adds the light airy feel to their songs and contributes to the backing vocals as well. If you listen to their killing voice you will see that all the members contribute to the harmonies that Ateez does so well. So I personally would consider Ateez to be a vocally driven group. But again that is just my opinion.
@@tamsocialmediavammmm... i can't agree, I would say that Ateez is one of the most noticeable cases of this. While San is a decent lead vocalist the gap with Jongho is LARGE, and overall his technique it's not fully there yet. While he's able to pull what he's given, and his tone might be nice to hear, his technique still needs a lot of polishment to consider him a notable lead vocalist (examples being Sullyoon in NMIXX and Karina in aespa). And regarding the rest of the members, while they might be helpful in doing harmonies, their technique alone it's still lacking and shows pretty clearly that they don't have the basics yet. Their tones might be helpful for them to blend the group's vocals, but that can be achieved with practice and preparation between them, but if they are decent enough vocalists they would be able to shine both on their own or together, which it's not the case. Their strenght definitely are sp, dance, and rapping, so by no means I'm saying they're untalented, but just as my favorite group, ONEUS, they don't shine a lot AS A GROUP in the vocal department (this is a curse for most of 4th gen groups though)
@@keonheehe In defense of San he has had to change his vocal technique due to almost getting nodules on his vocal cords (he discussed this in a v-live) he had bleeding on his vocal cords plus c0vid twice. So he had to change and adapt his vocal technique which takes time. I do know that tone and technique and different things and I know that Jongho had the best technique in Ateez. All that being said Ateez has come a long way from where they started and will continue to improve with time and hard work. I appreciate your response and it is always interesting to hear others opinions. I hope you have a great day, evening or night wherever you are.
@@tamsocialmediava the thing is his approach even before this, it's not strong enough (strong in quality, not in tone) his technique it's almost the same as before that I know of, in fact, I think it's even healthier than before with less strain and a bit lighter, but still, there's a lot of work for them to do to be vocally proficient, but it should be recognized that even in front of all of their struggles they are able to work hard on this to improve! They might lack a bit vocally now as a group (like I said, this is an issue with most k-pop groups since A WHILE) but hard work comes with a great prize in the end!. Have a good day/afternoon/night too!
Yeah Aespa’s recording behinds are great. I just saw a clip of NingNing recording her solo “Bored” the other day and it was STUNNING. But they’re all fun to watch in the studio simply because all 4 members are uniquely talented.
Also, “bless Mamamoo.” Yes, just yes 🙌🥰
Live harmonies in 5th gen are rare but possible. I recommend everyone to watch EVNNE's second music show win encore for Ugly. The vocal linee made eye contact in the last chorus and was like 'yeah, lets do this' and delivered!
evnne are so underrated !! id recommend zb1’s start over, phonecert and run run covers too
@@wonyorickyAlso the taerae show episode in hong kong was chefs kiss.. no backtrack no processing just the boys in a hotel room singing in front of a camera
I have to check that out!
@@aintnootherfanYou seriously need to check out the vocal power of 5th gen boy groups. ZB1 is easily among the most talented vocalists across all of the members, the two lead vocalists would've been a main vocalist had they be in any other known boy groups. Evnne has amazing vocalists, Riize blends in vocals very well, BND and TWS doesn't have standout vocalists but each of them are absolutely competent in keeping the vocal stability to life.
Evnne and ZeroBaseOne vocal lines don’t get enough credit for how good they are.
Haneul deserves more lines, I love her voice!
Since NMIXX is already known as a great vocal group, despite nailing those difficult choreohraphies, I do agree that they don't really need more of it.
Lily Bb5 @ 5:50 YASS!!!
Red Velvet sounds better without all the vocal enhancements from Its Live performances.
Nmixx just build different, i love them so much ❤
I agree on everything minus the Sakura point. I think that people should stop bashing her and the group, yes, but the documentary the only thing it did was make me roll my eyes (and apparently not alone here). And Le SSerafim is one of my favorite groups in the scene right now music-wise.
I am the same age as Sakura, 26, and I have followed her since Produce, where she was floating many times because of her popularity and not because of her skills, which never really improved (vocals especially, bc dance and stage present have been improved A LOT). I have seen her cry in 2 different documentaries, for the same reason, where we also never see her or the company try to do something about it, at this point I cannot feel empathy, I am sorry. She uploaded the Weverse comment and my first thought was "Girl, people are ash*les, but you too, need a bit of a reality check, you're not 15." In AKB48 vocals didn't matter, so she never worked on them, in produce she was mad popular so she didn't need to improve either, Iz*one had 12 members so people could cover for her and the lines were, of course, fewer, but now she needs to do something, bc there are 5 of them and only 2 are more comfortable with singing (and not always either).
The documentary was a HUGE mistake, they should have just laid low, and have a comeback where the members were improved and shut everyone up IVE style. Instead, they uploaded a documentary where we see the company being incompetent and her having a pity party, again, just before their comeback.
Yeah, at this point, I really cant defend Sakura or LSF anymore, which is why Im not their fan any longer.
Of course they wont work to improve when everyone is defending them instead of holding them to a certain standard or something. They dont have to be perfect by any means, but at least try?
@@glaciemdraco I still follow their music, because this comeback was just great 1-800-hot-n-fun is a bopitty bop, unlike the Easy/Smart era that was very mid-music-wise for my taste (and I think if the songs were better, the backlash would be less tbh) and along with everything else made the whole experience not fun.
I just don't understand what they were thinking and made this, instead of pulling the girls back, so they can both chill and work better and improve. They are a huge group with a big company behind them, they should have found vocal coaches (not the joke we saw in the documentary), have a talk with the girls as well because Sakura's response wasn't it (I get that it's hard with all the hate, but the criticism however harsh is valid at this point), and have a comeback in October or something. During the summer everyone was talking about them still, why have a comeback this soon after the hate train? I don't get it.
While I agree with everything you said, I don't think we'll ever see significant improvement any time soon because HYBE truly doesn't care. Bang Sihyuk saying he believes talent isn't that important (even HYBE's slogan is "we believe in music") compared to star power. Recruiting Kazuha and Eunchae to have them train only 8 MONTHS before debut without any previous training or experience in singing, rapping or dancing (not counting Kazuha's Ballet cause it's a completely different type of dancing and doesn't help much in these kinds of choreographies). The simple fact that they even signed Sakura after such a career and having barely improved as well is enough for me to not expect anything from the group
@@salembejaoui1880 Sadly, I am not sure how much of an improvement we will see either, and it's a pity, bc the potential is there. From K-pop, darlings became a punching bag and the worst thing is that many of the criticisms are correct, not just baseless hate, as many people like to say.
But I don't understand why people still feel the need to bash her for her vocals everywere. The whole group got more criticism than ever for they vocals. Why not just wait till the next encore and see instead of saying everywere that they don't want to improve?
3:00 omg thank you i was waiting for someone to say this! I couldn't watch the cosmic performance till the end bc it felt so artificial it was not at all what i was hoping for
wendy’s high note was so auto tuned it was hard to listen too 😭
That program's every video is like that. They all sound so robotic.
😂😂😂
Y'all are so funny. Praising these 4th generation vocalists who sound terrible live while claiming Red Velvet doesn't 😂😂😂
@@eyebrowstjwho said they sounded terrible? They just sound a bit different than the studio version when singing (live)
@senjuuzima891 They don't sound bad at all in this performance. Y'all give all the views to these weaker sounding 4th generation groups when Red Velvet absolutely slayed their It's Live stage. People even came after them on their Killing Voices stage and they ate that one up, too. I'm convinced kpop stans are allergic to good vocals and only want to support the younger generation who can sound good, too, but definitely lacking the soul it takes to be a great singer like a lot of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation idols. There are very few singers in this newer generation that can sing like Red Velvet, Exo, Mamamoo, Shinee, etc. This whole video is wack asf!
I will never like how much kpop lacks live vocal performances and how “live performances” and almost never live. I think I’m just too used to hearing my favorite vocalist singing live almost 24/7 so it’s always jarring how kpop is so much lipsyncing lmao
K-pop groups nowadays have 100 schedules n concert n cb after every few months (companies either don't wanna ruin their voices like SM do or they don't care n make them sing few lines in between the backtrack like HYBE does)
aespa has the busiest schedule in 2024 n are gonna cb in oct with a mini n tour AGAIN (n their hyperlink tour is still going on 😭😭😭)
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670 but aespa doesn't sing live at their concerts either? (at least they didn't at the 2 I've been to...lowkey disappointing)
It honestly depends on the groups and company. SM idols lipsync first week and the second week sing live, some idols from other companies also follow that. Like I remember Le Sserafim in Unforgiven era lipsync first week and then sing live second week. Girls Generation, Super Junior and EXO often followed that formula (coming from an EXO-L). I think Loona also do the same, they lipsync first week to show their dance and then sing live second week. 4th and 5th gen idols who often sing live are NMIXX, Ateez, TXT, Itzy, StayC, ZeroBaseOne, Xikers, (G)i-dle and Stray Kids. There are also groups where only some idols sing live like in Twice we have Jeongyeon, Nayeo, Jihyo and sometimes Tzuyu who sing live and in Le Sserafim we have Chaewon, Yunjin and Eunchae who sing live. Meanwhile some groups like Aespa lipsync music shows, but sing live on other places like university performances.
idk when you got into k-pop but live singing used to be way more common. I believe around 4th gen is when it got bad and it somehow continues to get worse apart from a few groups who sing live consistently enough.
NMixx is the goat gg when it comes to live vocals with difficult choreography. They’re great at harmonies and acapella too. I’ve watched kpop since late 1st Gen and they’re the cream of the crop. It’s unfortunate they don’t have the discography like Lesserafim.
2:53 finally I thought I was the only who noticed 😭
That performance was hella post-processed especially Wendy's part 😭 which SUCKS coz she's a very capable vocalist
Every single one of those "It's live" or "Killing Voice" performances is edited to some degree.
But nobody has ever accused Wendy or the rest of Red Velvet of not being able to sing.
Because of Kpop and it’s emotionally unstable fans, people have to go out of their way to incessantly tell people the very obvious fact that their views they put in a video are “opinion”
This has become so common now, any form of conversation in kpop can go left should you leave out the very obviously known fact of you not being an accredited critic.
It’s become so insane when facts are actually introduced you must go through a twenty minute argument to convince someone the words you’re saying come from actual facts.
The only way this changes is to ignore these nobs and speak your view without letting them know if the obvious is obvious is enough.
We know it’s an opinion and those who don’t will have to figure out how to catch up with the adults some day.
My favorite recording behind the scenes are GIDLE, can't get enough producer Soyeon.
Mamamoo has never been vocally underrated a day in their lives. Their name is pretty much synonymous with great vocals and even people who have never heard one of their songs has heard of them being great singers. The problem with vocal groups is that they tend to be at smaller companies and don't try to go with whatever type of music is popular. I mean you can play Ate That or Jopping on a Stradivarius but having the best instrument doesn't elevate the material. You need material to match the quality of the vocals and so vocal groups tend to be more obscure. Out of all the current groups I feel that Dreamcatcher(one of the best in terms of variety, skills, and experience), ARTMS(the level of residual hatred stans have for Orbits is sad bc the ladies are innocent and so talented), and H1-KEY(they're new but I feel that a few years will yield amazing growth) might be underrated vocally and unknown outside of their fandoms.
Edit: my songs of the summer are cocowater by Wheein, Is This Love? by Moonbyul, Classified by Oh My Girl!, and Justice by Dreamcatcher. They're not in any order and I don't rank things so these are just my faves. I was hoping for Hwasa but she moved her comeback to September bc solo stans are awful and ruined the one time two Mamamoo soloists came back at the same time. 😢
Hwasa's been pushing her comeback date back for over half a year now, I highly doubt her september date is because she's avoiding another member's comeback. She hadn't even filmed her mv by the time Moonbyul finished promotions lol. If there was any scheduling issue in trying to avoid another artist it probably would have been Heize since PNation can really only handle one of their artists at a time. Even then, I doubt it considering how they obviously haven't been sitting on an already filmed mv just waiting to release it for months.
The fact that most newer stans don't really care about vocals is really sad to vocal based groups😢
NMIXX Ad-libs in party o'clock it's live is very good
Song of Summer - SOLAR - BLUES (concert version) where she keeps belting and increasing her time of her vibrato or COLORS. I keep swapping between vocal to club depending on my mood.
6:00 MAMAMOO PLEASE COME BACK 😭
I agree Mamamoo isn't underrated vocally. They are the best vocal group of 3rd gen. BUT they definitely are underrated in terms of popularity which makes them underappreciated.
I love how you can be honest and critical of kpop vocals (unlike many delusional stans), while also being respectful to the idols as people, and not shitting on people for liking them despite their lack of singing talent. As someone who's been taking vocal lessons for a long time, in addition to being in choir/an acapella group for a fair number of years, the way people lie to themselves about vocal talent in kpop really bothers me. Seeing someone regularly sing off-key, struggle to project or hold notes, or just struggle in general, while their fans claim that they're an incredible vocalist and everybody saying otherwise is a hater, is pretty annoying. But it's also annoying when people act like an idol being bad at singing means that they're lazy, untalented, and don't deserve to be liked is even more annoying.
I really appreciate how you can be both honest, critical, and respectful.
Unpopular (not related to vocals) opinion: Most idols from small to medium companies do not make any money at all, except for those who could maintain popularity for a long while.
I can say this with full confidence, the truth behind how much money members of Crayon pop, Momoland, Stellar, or Loona actually made during their career is enough to prove that.
They have greedy company. Look at dreamcatcher or stayc. They are earning.
That depends on the company honestly. Some groups from small companies like Mamamoo, Oh My Girl, Dreamcatcher, Girls Day and Ateez do earn money. I think it also depends on popularity like Mamamoo and Ateez are popular groups. Oh My Girl and Girls Day have had hit songs.
For sm, i heard it before during 2nd gen, they arent allowed to do that much of a adlibs or sudden change. Its formulaic and standardize according to sm’s order. I dunno if this happens today
Definitely the thing for their younger/current hottest groups but the older ones and more vocally inclined have always played with their adlibs accdg to preference. Especially for their concerts or non comeback performances. You can see that with shinee, rv and taeyeon, exo also does this a lot. I think I saw a clip or two from aespa's recent concert where they also tried to change it up but definitely not so obvious.
as someone who is accustomed to the south asian and bollywood singers from childhood. It was shocking for me to see how kpop idols for the most part do not sing live and when they do it never really impresses me. I know these are to different industries but hell the vocal standards for kpop are so low. its a culture shock almost.
To the point about BtoB not being underrated as vocalists, I think it kind of depends on how you define “underrated.” Is it “lack of mainstream recognition for their talent” or is it more like “rated too low on an individual level by people who see them sing but don’t recognize how impressive their vocal talent really is.”
Like anyone who sees Eunkwang sing will say he’s a fantastic vocalist. But I hardly ever see “best Kpop vocalist” lists that even include him in the ranking. Personally I would say that unpopularity and lack of recognition is a form of being “underrated” as a vocalist.
This
Yes this
Haneul's case is so disheartening because at the beginning of their career (KIOF) she was getting proper line now I just don't get where or what S2 is trying to do with her VOCALLY. Like is Shhh she was present now in sticky her vocals are almost nowhere to be seen.
@@aurora__night3423 Well their company clearly favours Julie and Natty more than the other two. Belle still shines because her vocal skills being far from the other members. But Haneul needs the company to let her shine more.
It happens to All kpop groups
Company Favourites always get more line than others (though others are capable of or even better)
Its not company's fault also because Favourite members are generally way more popular
Its All about Business
We need a mamamoo comback 😭😭
Speaking of harmonies I think we need to talk about Nmixx 😭 when they try to do them live they end up sounding a MESS. Now I appreciate their effort and they’re definitely the only group that can even put together a decent harmony but my girls need practice on blending.
lily and haewon the only good on harmonies .. i think the others still on learning but since LMLT until SEE THAT i can see their improvement 😊 i hope they will get better and better on harmonies
I know this isn't an unpopular opinion, but if Kpop fans want more true live vocals, we need to try and make sure things like the LSF Coachella hate train don't get blown out of proportion. Disappointment and criticism is one thing, but when a group gets absolutely shat on for what amounted to a few bad moments, it really disincentivises companies from taking the risk.
THANK U SOMEONE SAID IT.🙌
I feel hanuel needs more lines, but I don’t agree that kiss of life relies only on belle. Natty and hanuel may not be as strong and versatile as belle, but they can sing and sing live better than many female k pop groups. Julie isn’t a singer but rapper so I wouldn’t expect her to be vocally strong, but she can still hold a tune and sing okay.
A really important part of the Aespa/Karina behind the recording video was to see how great she interacted with the producer. And how clear the instructions the producer gave were and how she then was guided to her best.
bless mamamoo indeed but those mamas need to bless us with more harmonies those vocals arent utilize to max
2:40 is sooo true. I see way too many of these K-pop opinion channels trying to be "blunt" and "brutally honest," but it just comes off as really embarrassing tbh. You can be constructive while still being a decent person. The lack of empathy with some of these people is crazy.
Riize has great live vocals and harmonies, and they perform live well with advanced choreography to boot. They have 2 videos on The First Take, hope you can check them out! :)
1. But that's because of the fans and the company being way too happy with Belle being the "Korean Ariana Grande" and the company relying way too much on the popularity of the members, they see Natty and Belle are the most popular and now Julie, so they make use of them and get stuck in there..... it pisses me off so much how they don't give more chances to Haneul, just 'cause she isn't as popular as the rest
4. Yeah... but they pull it off great 🤷🏻♀️
Happy to have you back from your vacation, and I hope it was grand! Always love the honest and blunt commentary, especially on the fan scene as much as the idols. Pretty recently, in an interview about Deadpool and Wolverine, Ryan Reynolds commented that he's been famous for years, but after doing the music video with Stray Kids and seeing what kind of fame they have, it was absolutely insane and he 'didn't know how they do it every day'. I think that's such a HUGE problem - the obsession with idols and their lives is terrifying to me, and I wish they could have some level of normalcy in the little down time they get instead of dealing with what they do. Keep being 'savage' and hitting us with those hard to hear facts!
CAN WE TALK ABOUT BAND TOO ALIKE DAY6 FOR EXAMPLE???
About the recording behind I really suggest you to watch to Shinee's behind the scenes for the Hard album. The amount of layers of vocals is so impressive
the importance of voice lessons for singers cannot be understated. vocal lessons can help weaker singers improve but they are equally as important for strong singers. it doesn't matter how much natural talent you have, singing is a skill and you can't figure everything out on your own. you need to learn proper technique or you are going to ruin your voice. even beyonce has a vocal coach.
2:43 the everglowup shade im here for it
My song of the summer has been Fromis' Supersonic
Mine is Lisa's new women and Ive accendio
Agreed that song is so good
@@manogaming6534 oo mine is kiof sticky and lisa rockstar
You can always TRUST SM groups for ad-libs, harmony and bts recordings
You can trust SM groups to always lip sync, even in concerts.
@@Gabriella22794 and they're the only one who has theee best encores, LIVE vocal runs n harmonies 👀
Tell me a group that can sing 100% live without backtrack n post production like TVXQ....
@@Gabriella22794 jealousy?? hate??or just lack of knowledge?
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670me can, they are suju, shinee, exo, snsd 😂 (sorry i couldnt add nct cz its difficult seeing their perf live singing 100% with no bactrack at all altho I believe the could do it and riize is stil new)
6:16 *BLESS MAMAMOO!*
2:34 she’s an adult woman that’s been in the industry for more than 10 years at this point it is up to her to take initiative and improve her vocals 🤷♀️
its not like she’s a newbie in the industry she’s been around for over 10 YEARS!!!! at that point it’s not her companies fault it’s her fault
Aww, don't be jealous just bcoz she is more famous and making more money than you. If you don't like her then just don't listen to lsfm, is it that hard?
@@Gabriella22794jealousy isn’t me pointing out that she’s an adult that can take control of her life and improve her own vocals 😭
@@Gabriella22794 and i like a lot of their music but when listening to her literally ruins a part of the song it’s a problem
@@baeumonde She sound perfectly fine in studio version and even in live. 1-2 bad encores in not the end of the world
That’s why I like aespa they don’t have to depend on anybody and the gap isn’t too much betweeen Ningning and the others
most so-called "vocalists" in kpop these days also only has 1 trick vocal tone. just shows the lack of vocal talent or skill and their fans still praise them like they are vocal geniuses. 💀
Well aespa n nmixx does give variety of vocal tone n every member can sing.
Belle..
What
The interaction of the producers and Aespa is so amusing to watch. The directions are so on-point and they know what to say in order to bring their voices to the fullest potential. Not only that, the singers are very intelligible and their skills back them up to execute those directions. It's so satisfying to watch.
you are one of the few actually doing what others swear they are doing about le sserafim, which is actual constructive criticism. thank you
Minute 5:33
I'm so proud of being a BABYMONSTER's fan... they are so talented, I love the fact that they can sing LIVE and perform perfectly well at the same time, I'M SO PROUD OF THEM.
we desperately need mamamoo back in the scene. there are some amazing new groups nowadays and i don’t want to discredit anyone, but there’s just something so unique about mamamoo. they bring so much energy and life to live performances, their stage presence is less “staged” and more realistic. you can really see how passionate they are about music, i really miss that type of energy.
5:13 yes absolutely, I LOVE when people do that it’s so pleasing to listen to. Rami and Lily are really good at it too
Haneul just didn’t get the chance yet to prove that she is main vocalist material
If you love harmonies, I recommend to checkout BINI !! I know it's not kpop but they are literally as competent as nmixx as a vocal group. They literally have 3 vocalists in the same level of Lily and Haewon. I highly recomment "Lagi" for live harmonies and excellent live vocals.
Aespa ❤
My honest opinion! No hate!
Kpop is not only about VOCALS. THERES so much more into it. So a decent vocal technique is a necessity if a idol has a position of a sub vocal or a vocalist but if they are a rapper, and FORCED to sing than a criticism for them is not what should be appreciated. If they are a dancer than focusing more on there vocal technique is not what you should waste your time on. A perfect kpop group means a perfect balance of everything. Not just vocals. And nowadays everything is a mess because everyone is a ALL-ROUNDER. yes there are people who can do everything but not everyone is like that!. It's the companies who's at fault not the idols. Because at the end of the day idols are just some employees.
During 2nd gen even the sub vocalist could sing THEIR PART very well n had 2-3 decent vocalist which is nowadays RARE.
Illit main vocalist would be a sub vocalist in aespa, nmixx, red velvet, mamamoo, snsd, twice.....
Even enhypen n TXT main vocalist are soo weak compared to their senior BTS n seventeen main vocalist.
SM latest bg RIIZE has the weakest main vocalist in SM HISTORY (even though he's top3 in 5th gen)
It's just both company and fans are now more into performance perspective rather than vocal/rap skills
Also no one would criticise RM zico, mark, changbin if they can't sing cuz they're ACTUAL RAPPER rather than kazuha, eunchae, minji, niki, ryujin, yeri,..... Who got that position cuz they're the weakest vocalist in the group 👀
@@blink_____jenniequeen6670Sorry to say, but that is not the case for many and I do mean many groups in the 2nd gen. There's a difference between being a good live singer and a good vocalist
No.1Mamamoo 🤙💪🤟✊👏
tiny desk korea 23rd musician NMIXX
live adlib + band + acoustic+ jazz version
Belting in every song does not equate to a better singer. No doubt Belle is the best singer at a technical level, but to say Natty and Julie aren't even close is a wild take and more of a general trending problem where people believe if someone doesn't sing loud and high, then they are inferior. I will agree that Haneul is criminally underutilized though. Same goes for Rora in Baemon. Give these girls some lines!
But it's true tho. Natty, Julie and Haneul are really far from Belle. Compare them to gg Nmixx, Aespa or Mamamoo and you can hear the difference. Literally just look at their Sticky encore, Natty was struggling like crazy
It's true but they all have very beautiful tone which makes them stand out in their own way.
Disagree about Sakura. I don’t feel bad for her when she says things like “We’re rookies” and “We just want to have fun” I want to have fun at your concert to Sakura but your vocals are so distracting and not in a good way. She’s been in this industry as long as some idols have been alive and she just cries instead of really putting in the work. If she took just a half hour a day to practice her vocals, in about a year we would see massive vocal improvement. I guarantee you she has a half hour of free time, she just won’t or she would’ve done something a decade and a half ago 🤷♀️
"She’s been in this industry as long as some idols have been alive"... some idols debuting at 13 years old says more about the industry than Sakura.
@@li.moreausakura was 13 when she was in hkt48 😭
@@moonlightshine2275 Yeah... that still says something about the industry.
@@li.moreau i agree 👍🏻
Here is my opinion on kpop vocals, people should be fine if one or two of the members can't sing great. As long as they perform well, sing decently and connect to the fans that should be fine. And companies' should normalize labeling their idols as purely visuals so they have a reason to give them minimal lines. Idols can still thrive in performing by just being at the center. Take for example Sakura, imo she owns the Crazy comeback cause it fits her aesthetic and is just full of charisma even with the few lines she got. I am not a fan of the song but i did enjoy watching it.
The problem with that is that fans of those idols who are labeled "visuals" by the company will complain and say they need more screen time and lines in songs. If said visuals don't have enough (in the fans, opinion) lines in songs and screen time, they will say that they are being mistreated by the company.
That "purely visuals" label idea would be the fking worst if that gets done. Imagine how many beautiful, handsome and hardworking idols would be the target of hateful lowlife internet junkies just because they look beautiful. Even if they have decent skills in singing and dancing, haters will still hate because they hold that "visual" only position. "What's his/her role in the group? Just to stand and look beautiful?"
I kinda get your opinion on that and I'm pretty sure you meant no harm. But that's just going to be a very big match for haters to start a fire. Hence, Im gonna say that'd be the worst idea for companies to do in the idol industry.
@@ProteinShak3 the thing about haters right now is that their criticisms are justified cause all idols have vocals or rappers on their label. But if you label someone as pure visuals, those haters will only look stupid and hateful for no reason. Idols are meant to entertain and connect to people and be admired by them. It's not solely locked on being great at singing and dancing on stage. Maybe having those labels would spark a change with how people view idols.
@@jaco2174 nope, they are idols and are expected to be able to sing & dance good/well, if not great/exceptional, to a certain extent. That's just an invitation for people to continue with the criticism and judging. Even now with idols who hold the visual title, still receive such harsh criticisms when most of them even showed improvements in their singing and dancing skills. Look at Jisoo from BP and Tzuyu from Twice, they tackled the 'they're only pretty' criticism ever since debut and even now, some people continue to do so when both of them showed pretty consistent improvements on their singing and dancing skills. You can never change those people's minds with just that. They won't stop with the hate, so the best thing that an idol could do is show those people that even if they were considered to be only pretty/handsome, they too, could show improvements and gain approval from those people. But even with tremendous improvements, they can never escape that criticism bc some people would never accept truths and will only believe what they want to believe. It will never vanish in the idol industry. That's why their best choice is to improve first and improve even more.
thought i was the only one that thought aespa's recordings were so superior.. i don't even watch their content but i'll be catching every recording vid. i was so shocked by how well they sing when i watched Better Things recording, which is saying something because i already knew they sand well
Can u please do a video on 2NE1? They have great vocals, plus the main Vocalist Park Bom has a very distinct unique voice that you will never hear anywhere else, I’d love to hear your opinion on them.
Day idk asking for you to cover Brown Eyed Girls vocals. One of the most underrated vocal groups nowadays imo. When u included that Sixth Sense Belle clip I was like I *need* the coverage of the original group who sang it. As a fellow singer, I love ur vids btw
I love it too when live performances add something to the original track ! There are studio versions of SHINee songs I don't listen too anymore since I listened to some live versions because the live versions are so much better ! The best example would be Like a Fire : the studio version is so bland after you listened to the live version with the members adding their little ad-libs here and there. Excuse Me Miss is famous also for the bridge Jonghyun added for the live version... Sherlock (Clue + Note) is also a SHINee song with iconic enough performances to the point the studio version can sometimes seems bland
One of the reasons I got into Mamamoo is also for the times they sometimes add little things to the live performances... It's so fun and nice to listen too !
SHINee and Mamamoo are two groups I would love to hear in a concert !
BELLE IS THE BEST FIFTH GEN VOCALIST
ARGUE TO THE WALL
Love the opinion videos😌
Why you feel sad?
@@xryvxctyrsyndry lol its not a sad emoji (😞,😔) its this 😌, that has a smile
Mamamoo needs to bring the harmonies back to kpop. OT4 comeback please!
Red Velvet harmonizes on every song 😂😂😂
Seriously as a Haneul enjoyer it’s so disappointing how much they don’t use her. Why even label her as lead vocalist?
One thing that Hybe boy group fans need to accept once and for all is that the vocal problem isn't just with girl groups. The only difference is that when boy groups sing live they sound less worse than girl groups, but technically they are just as bad or even worse. TXT is the group with the best live performance and stability in the company (apart from Seventeen and Fromis9), but that doesn't negate the fact that their best singer is extremely technically weak. They all have an unbearable nasality, none of them have support, their agility is non-existent, there are women with much better low scores. Enhypen has the same problem as TXT, but it ends up being worse because some of them are inaudible. BTS, despite being the group that has been in the company the longest (which makes everything more shameful), continues to have one of the worst vocal lines in the world. Jungkook and Taehyung are the only ones who have any technique in the group, but they aren't even average. Jungkook has an unbearable nasality, confusing agility, poorly made and messy runs, he has support but it's very limited, I don't remember seeing him hit a note from F4 onwards, that On bridge is a nightmare. Taehyung is technically generally better than Jungkook, his stamina is terrible, (unlike Jungkook) he has the best low notes of the group as well as breathing control which is not something to be congratulated on, the nasality only appears when he tries reach higher notes which he shouldn't do because he doesn't have the support for that, Stigma's high note is a nightmare part 2. Jin comes soon after, to begin with he doesn't have the support, he's very nasal (despite being smaller than Jungkook and Jimin's nasality), weak low notes, weak breath control, he also shouldn't be singing the high parts he sings in the songs, Crystal Snow's triple high note that the armys keep talking about is just him screaming a lot. Then comes J-hope and Jimin, there's nothing to say, they're simply horrible. Talking about Seventeen Dk and Seungkwan technically carry the group but the others at least manage to guarantee themselves live, just like Jiwon carries Fromis9 but the girls guarantee themselves live. And before anyone comes to say anything, know that I listen to Faouzia, David Phelps, Mariah Carey, Davichi and Dinah Jane, my standard is on another level, what I'm saying is a fact because unlike liking a voice, the technique of Vocal is not an opinion but a fact (that's because I didn't even mention belting, vibrato, etc.). If you don't accept this, you will read, study about it and also increase your standard, because it is coming to hell.
Agree 100% The ’hybe gg vs hybe bg‘ video made me laugh (apart from svt who isn’t even really a hybe group but more so pledis) the encores were stable yes but very hard to listen. Such overwhelming nasal tones & straining. The hard reality kpop fans should absorb is that txt ,enhypen and BTS are just as vocally incompetent as Illit & lesserafim. They’re just ’more stable‘. Even new jeans outsings every hybe bg (again not svt) & they have much more pleasant vocal colours. Jimins encore was arguably the worst I’ve ever heard of but it was quickly glossed over with stupid excuses like he ‘couldn’t hear his ear in‘. I’ll give BTS abit of slack tho because they have a strong rapline.
Perfect analysis. I always thought Jungkook was an okay vocalist, not a great one. Look at his standing next to your remix with Usher . Usher absolutely vocally outdid him on his on track. I remember my sister played the remix, and I thought it was Jungkook singing Usher's part ... I was shook only to find out it was Usher 😂😂. Army's were mad because Usher overshadowed JK.
big bts fan here (wouldn’t call myself an army anymore) but everything you said about them was pretty much right. 😭 it’s frustrating that they have the potential to be better but it’s too late at this point especially being under hybe and with the members seemingly not doing much to improve.
But I'm confused I heard Jungkook singing standing next to you and he sounded amazing. I also remember watching Vocal Coach on TikTok defending Jungkook and saying his technique is amazing. Also, Justin Burke is just, in general, praising Bts, seventeen, and other hype groups. I just don't understand where you're coming from really.
I believe Bts, seventeen, and Txt have some of the strongest vocals in their generation.
@@devineoyediran2323 Many people (including vocal coaches) will always congratulate and say good things that are not true about famous celebrities to gain engagement. This happens with BTS too, all the videos and publications where people tell the truth about the vocal technique of these artists are always taken down or the content creator himself takes them down because of harassment and hate from crazy fans who cannot accept the truth. Artists with great technique, such as David Phelps, Dinah Jane, Faouzia, Tori Kelly and Jojo, don't have as many vocal analyzes as artists like BTS, BLACKPINK, TXT, Camila Cabello, Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber (who aren't even technically decent singers), and do you know why? Because these real vocalists don't have as much fame as these mediocre singers.
#Mamamoo🔥❤️🔥👏✊🤟💪😍🤩🤧🤙✨💛💜🖤❤️🤍💖
its crazy that mamamoo's GREETING is a harmony
I wish instead of Giselle in aespa they added another vocalist. Finding out she was added last makes it sound like they ran out of trainees
please check out fromis_9 some day! their main vocal jiwon has a beautiful voice
Ngl the editing of Red Velvet's Cosmic live vid was so unnecessary... It took away the magic from their voices and made them sound so robotic 🥲 You can clearly hear Seulgis voice fighting against the autotune / pitch edits 😂
2:58 i thought the mixing in that performance was really bad too. it’s unfortunate because they sing lovely live
I love nmixx
Babymonster seem very promising to me. I dont really like their predecessors but babymon seem great to me. I'll look firward to their trajectory.
0 harmonies in illit
I see SOLAR and VOCAL, I click.
i discovered p-pop they're afraid of backtracks and dancing while singing is like a walk in a park for them.. i know it's crazy to say this now but give them the styling and production that kpop groups have bruh.... raw talents are crazyyy. y'all need to be open to anything sometimes these groups deserve to be recognized i mean right now they're making waves and im excited to see what's going to happen (im a kpop fan btw)
Live harmonies are simply the norm in P-pop and that's so refreshing! SB19 set the standard for live harmonies and I love that newer groups like BINI and ALAMAT are following suit. Even nugu groups like Yes My Love (vocal kings!) and ECLYPSE are brimming with talent and eat live harmonies for breakfast. So happy that they're starting to make a name for themselves!
Do yourself a favor and listen to Yes My Love's cover of "O Holy Night" and ECLYPSE's cover of "Saan?" and more recently, "Liham".
What is P-pop? The name sounds weird
@@exogen9428Philippines pop
I love G22, vocal queens!
Sakura and kazuha reli needs a lot of vocal training... So is shuhua..let me get it straight, that show "Its Live" isn't practically live singing? Omg
Just my rants:
1. Natty and Julie can't sing that well, but they are defining a new position in k-pop girl group - lead/main twerker.
2. I believe that RV is originally recorded live, and with a live band. They may have MR and the recording may be edited further, but the original should be live. Can't tell me Wendy's high note toward the end is not live.
They kind of go too far with the “mature” concept in kiss of life. I like their music and stuff but I don’t feel comfortable watching their performances because of the choreography sometimes. Their dance challenges aren’t much different too.
how long before we fall in love? _twerk twerk_
In regards to Taeil, can we drop the term “dating scandals”? What’s going on with Taeil, THAT’S a scandal. We need to normalize K-pop idols having a love life. It should NOT be considered a scandal. It’s okay to have crushes but you don’t know these people. You need to except the fact that you ARE never going to marry them.
8:14 yet you never check on them