8K, 4K, 2K - What Printer Resolution is Right for YOU?
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Something I forgot to mention:
1. The link in the description for the Phrozen Sonic Mini 8k gets your 15% off the printer and a free bottle of Aqua Grey resin.
2. This video is 4K for your pixel peeping pleasure.
The reason you don't see a big difference is easy to explain. The printers only get higher resolutions to compensate for the larger printing area. If you had an 8k printer whose printing area was as large as that of the 2k printer, you would see a real difference.
@@brainpinker282 Except that is not the case here. Mars Pro has: 5.1' display at 534ppi, the Sonic Mini 4K has: 6.1' display at 722ppi, and the Sonic Mini 8K has: 7.1' display at 1152ppi. That means that on paper, the Sonic Mini 8K should have around 2 times more detail than the Mars Pro, which visually here, its clearly not the case.
@@Cless_Aurion Pixel contrast ratio and light uniformity differences IMHO.
And you have to remember how that light impacts the masking LCD layer. It's not just right angles. It gets scattered from the inside of the machine and diffracted light from the various surface interfaces. Angled light from adjacent LED emitters. Unless we have a directly upward firing laser grid emitter we'll always more washy shadows cast by the LCD mask and lights we actually use.
the link for the 8k mini does not seem to work anymore.
Resin printer compares… sign me up! Fantastic shots!! And lots of great info packed in here
It's amazing to me the quality and cost of the options available today, and the quality of comparisons as well. Thanks for making one of the best vids on the subject, Scott. Amazing job!
Your videos were some that I followed when I got my first printer (FDM) a few years ago (still do today of course). and yes, god damn; the quality of printer has increased astronomically
Can we get a part 2 to this, where you actually paint some of these up? Since you mentioned it, I'd like to see a comparison, see how much is actually obscured by paint. Like would I need to file off all those little print lines, or is that all covered up?
To know how to orient your models the best use this: arctan (layer height (mm)/ XY resolution (mm))
For example, for my mono SE: arctan (0.05 / 0.051) = 44.43⁰
what is the logic behind the equation used?
@@tiagocosta9714 this video explains it: /watch?v=Qs2Rb0ExnIM
Though I have to say now that I'm using a machine with higher resolution and working AA it's a non-issue. It also mostly applies to flat surfaces, so stuff like tanks or cars, for figurines it won't matter.
thank you for bringing up ppi. it is mind blowing how many people do not understand the concept.
Nearly as important as the pixel density is the type and quality of the UV source, which unfortunately doesn't get nearly enough attention in the printer marketing. Ideally you want collimated light hitting the resin perpendicular to the surface; if light passes through the mask at an angle it won't accurately expose the shape of the mask, and if the light is diffuse (i.e. scattered, travelling at random angles) it gives a blurred exposure. (Think about the shadows cast by direct lighting versus bounce/diffuse lighting.) This is why parallel lens LED arrays will tend to give sharp and accurate prints, though they can give un-even lighting (hot-spots or grid patterns) if the optics aren't precisely aligned and focused. Printers with a single dome-lens solution will give sharp edges but may give inaccurate prints as the angle is perpendicular to the screen directly above the lens but less and less perpendicular at points further away on the screen. (Not a big problem with most minis, but can be an issue if you print multi-part models and want the keys to fit.) And diffuse UV sources will give a fuzzy exposure that can cause the print to swell in some places while supports are failing in others.
Screen resolution has a nice sexy number behind it so it's an easy marketing point, but comparing printers purely on their resolution is like comparing cameras on their mega-pixels without considering whether they have a cheap plastic lens or high-quality glass optics.
Any suggestions on an particular printer models, with good UV sources?
@@cthulpiss EPAX has really high-quality lens arrays in their X10/E10, X1, and E6. (Though the X10 and some older models of X1 didn't initially ship with it, so be careful if you're getting one secondhand. You can install it as an upgrade kit, though.)
this is why I might never actually end up buying one, each time I find "winner", I realize that there is more to it then just the numbers. Resin probably makes a different too
I had my eyes on Elegoo Saturn 2 , mostly becasue you can plug in the mini carbon filter that helps with the smell / toxic fumes , but then, watching some videos on YT, I saw " buy big printer only if you plan printing big most of the time" , which won't be the case for me mostly. I want to have bigger volume if I need it, eventhough most of the time I will be printing objects of roughly 20x10x8 cm
and now I'm seeing that resolution is really just part of the equation
again, maybe at the point of trying to get into it the quality shouldn't be my biggest concern , seeing those resin casted results wow , but yeah, if the printer is 10k and above, it's not something I would ever plan to get into anyhow
@@nosalis prhozen mini 4K is about $400, and if you’re getting in to printing as a hobby and not going to spend your whole time thinking about how you could have bought a different one and maybe it would be different, it’s great
I love all the minis I print off and have no regrets about it at all. Best present I’ve gotten for a long time (except what I got for Father’s Day this year, but that’s a bit different haha)
@@chandlerpearce6213 i ended up getting Saturn 2 and so far i really like it, of course can't compare to anything else , but prints looks nice so far
Can I just say how amazing your videos are. The writing/scripting, extras/side note inclusions, and production quality as a whole is just SO GOOD. Props to you and your team!!
Your use of "squishy" descriptive language and the casual ease at which you flag your assessments as potentially crap while musing aloud about possible influencing factors that you aren't sure exact nature of/if they even exist. It speaks to me. Keepin' it Real is most important! Thank you.
Scott. This video reminded me how much I love watching your videos man... Truly elegant and the way you test all stuff and reach a conclusion is very professional. Well done buddy 🤘
This is awesome thanks Scott, as a miniature sculptor with only a 2k printer currently these new printers look so tempting!
That's a sweet comparison. Thank you! I'm surprised how well the 2.5k one did. The comparison to a cast was also very revealing!
The first 3D print related video that actually goes into the ppi thematics! Thx alot!
Greg has a great video on the Phrozen 8K comparisons too. Thx Scott!
Look forward to seeing those wood elves! Nice one Scott.
That was very informative for a 3d pleb like me who's only just beginning to understand the ins and outs of the field. It added some dots to my map that I didn't even know existed. Thanks a lot for what I assume was a considerable effort!
Great video! As always the camera work is stunning, but the topic is also a really good thing to cover. I Feel like in this hobby we often convince ourselves that we need to get the best/highest quality products in order to improve our work, this video comparison is a great way to show that's not really true, and how the average person wouldn't actually notice the difference between the printers. When your skillset is beginner/mid-tier, buying the stuff designed for pros usually doesn't benefit you, and depending on the product it can sometimes even hinder you.
So glad to see another video from you today! Happy Christmas and a merry new year! Let’s get it popping!
That was great, Scott. Nice short, clear explanation of beginning concepts along with a window into the near-infinite variables combinations!
Oh man, this was so helpful. I wish I had found it last night right before I purchased the wrong SLA printer! Great video!!
Awesome video! I got the 8K printer myself so it's nice to see what I can expect. By any chance, have you ever done any resin glazing?
I have not, that sounds interesting
I assume by resin glazing you mean brushing on some and curing it with a light? I've heard of some methods using acetone fumes to smooth it out in a chamber.
I feel like we're reaching a point of diminishing returns in the resolution arms race for SLA printers, hopefully this will spur on some advancements in other ways than raw pixel density
We just need steppers with finer tuning and everything will catch up.
Merry Christmas Scott!
You hooked me with video info and reeled me in on the outro music, subscribed!! 🤘🤘
1K is the only resolution needed by the true professional.
Maybe I missed it but you didn’t mention what layer height you printed at? Each printer has a different ppi as you mentioned and this is very important to match the ppi to layer height for ultimate result. On my mini 4K the ppi is 32um so theoretically 0.03mm is the sweet spot for this machine. Annoyingly well planned video, that’s what I got out of this.
.03mm layer height for all my tests!
@@Miniac not that it would be too much different but you could’ve gone lower on the 8k in theory. You should try 0.025 just to see. Obvs you gonna need to adjust exposure again a touch but you may be able to squeeze a bit more out the machine now that you don’t need them to compare to each other anymore 😀
I've been 3d printing for the past year and a half with a couple of printers and I can say that with practice and trial and error, you can more than likely print models you are happy with on any of the well-known printers. If 3d printing interests you, spend a couple hundred bucks and get one and practice with it. You will fail a lot, hopefully less than me, though, but you'll gain knowledge of your printer and environment and come out of it with something you can't just pick up at the store. It's super fun to see a perfect print and the fact that I've supplemented my Christmas gifts with prints is a plus as well.
Yeah, there is still no way around EnvisionTEC or Asiga DLPs for making master models for casting. But their smaller build volume explains why few studios offer larger scale resin models. Good video. Now test different (better) resin. ;) Because that can have a huge impact on the 2K or 4K printers, too. I recommend Nova3D Red-Wax. Despite of what the name implies, it's not castable resin. It's regular resin. Just a so called "precision resin".
So one note... I'm very glad I saw, this video, but yours is the first of multiple reviews for the 8k mini where I didn't see a HUGE jump in quality between 2k and 8k output. One reason for this might be that you aren't using Phrozen's 8k resin, which I've been told really does make a difference in this case. I don't know the reason behind this, but it's worth trying if you haven't done a test with it.
Most other reviews I've seen have been using the native resins manufactured by the company for their specific printer, so it's interesting that the resin itself might be responsible for the same-y quality of all these prints. Does using 4k resin on a 2k printer yield better results? What about 8k resin on a 4k printer? I'd be curious to find out.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Use the reason that's marketed for it and then if there isnt a noticeable difference we'll know its a gimic. However, I've seen other content creators with this product and they used the 8k resin and got better results.
I bet it does. Exactly the same thing happened with this 4K resin a year ago when it came out. A lot of people where comparing printers each with their own resin, and I'm sure that skewed the results heavily. The materials quality counts, who would have known!
One of the most informative videos out there about this topic.
As much as I want a Printer, this just shows me that I just don’t have the time to spent on this in my daily schedule.
Loved the more in-depth video. Easy to understand but not overly simplified. Very well done!
Appreciate the side by side comparisons and experienced opinion!
Better explanation than mostly 3D printer channels out there!
To get the best from an 8k printer you should really use darker resin because it doesn't bleed as much so the prints will look sharper..
I started out with grey resin then started adding some black resin to the grey to give it a darker shade similar to the elegoo 8k space grey and you can definitely see the difference!
Dark grey, black and really dark greens and blues give damn good results. However, Zmud beige has been the best damn resin I've ever used. Too bad you can't get it anymore :( big sadge.
@@TheClassicDoomGuy I think yellow/orange, and the darker the better, should be the best resin.
Just picked up the mars 3. Managed dozens of models outbid my first resin bottle and the quality is insane, speed is great and got to love having a bigger plate and z than most in class
merry christmas!) Love your videos! Very exited for the future of the channel!) I wanted to suggest to you a wargame. I thinks you know it it's called middle earth strategy battle game, it's really fun and pretty simple.
Thank you! I've been trying to evangelize the difference between total pixels and pixel density since 4k printers (with double the print bed size) hit the market.
Great breakdown of the technicals
Hey, Scott!
This video has come out at exactly the right moment! I'm currently looking to 3d print a bunch of heads to replace the default heads on AOS Whitch Aelves, because I don't like the "Screaming angdy woman" aesthetic that all of them follow. And I was really struggling to determing which 3d printing resolution/service to choose. I don't have space for my own printer, so I have to rely on 3rd party services to do that. It honestly looks like even 2.5K printer would work fine, because we're only talking about heads, so I could position them face-down in the file to get the clearest face that isn't ruined by any supports.
I've only been using my Mars 2 Pro for a week and I already want to upgrade to a bigger and (I guess?) higher res one. Legitimately enjoying this hobby so much rn, after a few years of frustration with my FDM printers. lol.
Great video, and killer shirt , Kreator, inner circle, Hail to the hordes!
Thanks for a great comparison video. I want to take the plunge into 3D printing, and this is very helpful. Merry Christmas matey!
Literally perfect timing because I was looking at 3d printers to buy today. Thanks for the video!
I noticed that you didn't mention your layer height for each printer. As the pixels get smaller, it makes sense to reduce the layer height to match.
That's what I was thinking. The 4k does better with certain layers unlike the other ones and since we want more details in miniatures, it makes sense to mention those layers.
The way you've used them, the words creamy and crispy both refer to the same thing: the verisimilitude of the rendering, whether that be in modelling or painting alike. The verisimilitude of the rendering of a harsh discontinuity like a boundary of an object or boundary between colours is it's crispiness - the sharp transition. For continuous changes like blends or the smooth folds of cloth or shape of a face, creamy refers to the smoothness and therefore verisimilitude of the result. You're good to use both crispy and creamy to describe paint and print jobs you think have gone well ;)
How I didn't see this before. I as a owner of 2 2k printer was wondering HOW MUCH actually a jump to 4k or 8k would make, and you answered PERFECTLY. I will simply wait until the 4 or 8k are about the prices the 2k were when I bought them
Thanks a lot!
I feel like 4k and 8k would be most useful when accompanied by an increase in build plate size for my applications. I don't need insane detail, just better than FDM, or, faster than FDM when using a nozzle and layer size for miniatures.
I wonder if there are any test prints that could point out if the machine tolerances or other factors were making the difference.
That what really informative, thanks! I have watched some videos out of casual interest, but this offered me the most value.
Again, super helpful content! Thanks so much!
Omg your wood elves models looks AWESOME 🙌🏻
Nice comparison! Love the art style on those elves, Miniac. Whoever created those, well done!
Thanks for this one Scott. I like a few people are thinking about get a 3D printer.
This gave a lot of food for thought. Once again many thanks.
Also wishing you and your family a Merry Christmas and all the best for the New Year mate
Seems like the ELEGOO Mars is still the way to go.
I think there are 2 things I disagree with in this video. That painting obscures print quality differences, if you look at VOG's PSM8K video he base coats and washes and that highlights the differences. Also while a level playing field is one way to compare I think a fairer way is trying to get the best (for a certain amount of effort) print for each and compare. I would argue that for a higher res printer that means printing at smaller layer heights. While that wouldn't benefit the lower res printers it has a much larger effect on high res printers, and could even explain the more visible layer lines, since the vertical resolution lines are less visible and are less able to hide layer lines, and also as you explained there will likely be more differences between the layers.
Seems you can't really expect to see a gain if your z resolution can't match your xy res...
Great video Scott. Super clear comparisons and context.
I think it's safe to say that print lines are still visible on all 3, casted stuff still wins for me, the gap is closing but it's still a few years before I would get a printer. I'd want invisible print lines tbh, even miniscule ones are visible enough that I think it would mark down the model in a painting competition
Finally had a chance to watch this- I love the tests, thank you so much for doing them! Run your printers into the ground, my friends, milk them for everything they're worth and resist the upgrade for a bit longer! #krispykreme
indeed. this video has just shown me I should keep my mars 2 for a while longer.
Thank you for finally making a proper comparison video. Its a shame that the big 3d printing channels have failed to make a video with apples to apples comparison with good close up comparisons. Thank you.
Great video. There's definitely a lot of variables which are hard to control...
As somebody who knows nothing about resin printers, this was an interesting and informative video. Thank you!
Thanks for this video. I've been pondering upgrading my Mars Pro to the 8K and this comparison was very helpful in that regard.
Great video, so much Info in a nice bite size package. Merry Christmas dude
Makes me feel better about settling with a Mars 2 Pro and not spending more. Thanks guy
PPI is not per square inch, at least for screens. It's per inch, along some line, usually the diagonal for monitors (which is often used to give the screen size). Of course that relates to how many pixels are in a certain area in the end, so your explanation is correct, it's just not how the value is calculated. (Caveat: this may be different for 3D printers than for screens, I don't know about that.)
Great video dude. Happy Christmas and thanks for all the content this year! :)
Great comparison video. Thanks.
Awesome and very informative video. Keep up the good work.
Yup way too many factors to compare, results may vary so much from resin to resin, for example the more transperent resins have bleed effect resulting in less details. but smoother overall look. higher res screens allow for bigger build volume tho which for me is bigger factor than the percived quality.
Awesome video, very interesting that with twice the xy resolution between the mars pro and the 8k (.047mm to .022mm) the prints are still super comparable.
Tis a great vid, but something stuck out.
Did you compare the 8k printer using *Just* 4k resin, or did you do a few prints with 8k specific resin? You mention a bottleneck at the end of the video and wondering if that's it.
The resolution revolution, It's amazing how far the manufactuers are able to push their technology!
There is one key factor that has an impact on high resolution printers (8K) compared to printers that has a lower resolution: 3D model sculpting details.
Most of the model and especially minis are provided with not that much details and on top of that, to save storage/bandwidth (and computer performances), the model is decimated.
Then there is a high chance that your model may don't have enough polygons and sculpting details to fit the resolution of a 4K or even 8K printer. That's why for most minis, you will get similar results.
Another factor is the resin quality an the new Aqua 8K provides better results and have a better tolerance to anti aliasing (at least for us ;). "Cheap" resin will provide, well, "cheap" result. But like you pointed our, a little bit of paint on top of it will make such difference less noticeable.
However, that's true that the difference is not major, at least between a 4K and 8K, even with a very high resolution model, 31/35 microns vs 22 microns doesn't add so much. It will do a difference in the micro contrast of the model only.
Anyway, great video, you did a very good job!
Happy you put in 2.5K, so weird when the industry downgrades 2.5k to call it 2k even though 1080p is in the 2k range. I guess marketing beats factual numbers and logic
the quality of resin will effect the quality of the print the same if not more than changing layer height between 0.05 - 0.03, especially when it comes to fine detail.
Awesome, your video is so well done and very informativ.
Thanks for all the work
Thanks for the crisp and creamy 3d printer comparison Scott
What a lot of work. Thank you.
Merry Christmas everyone and happy hobbying
Merry Christmas ⛄!
Happy xmas scott!
Merry Xmas Miniac and u lovely wife!! 🎄❤️🐶🥰
It's so wild how far 3D printers have come so quickly but they're still not quite where I want them to be to justify the time and know-how over just buying models I want instead.
Except for terrain. I could see myself using them for terrain.
Gotta use the proper resin. The 8k prints will look leagues better with a resin built for it. They should have sent you some 8k resin.
To all hobbyists over here , I'm telling you this as a 3D designer and sculptor and also from experimenting, a 50-micron printer is better than enough to obtain a crisp looking details because the quality of the print depends on the designer himself, it's just a matter of how you can "Increase the details" inside the software we are using, for example, I can get a 28-micron details on a 50-micron printer just by increasing the bumpiness of my sculpt about 200% than the average I would do for a 28-micron printer and VOALA, I'll get the same quality as an 8K printer
Of course If I want to work on 28 microns I don't need to increase the details for 200% just the normal I would do , summary is it depends on the designer , if he can understand this it will ease the argument of the K's and microns
I do have 3 printers - 2 MonoX2 with a 48 microns
and M3 Photon with a quality of 40 Micron
Both of them on paper are 4K
Finally somebody explains the importance of pixel size. I hope people stops buying printers just for resolution after seing this video
Maybe you can also compare the printers using 8k resin. 3d printing pro has made a great vid about. Btw great video :)
Hi, nice video.
It sums up my experience with 3D printing in resin pretty well. When I searched for my first printer, I had 2 critria : 2K res minimum and mono LCD Screen (because speed and quality). I found out the photon mono which print better models than almost any model I purchased online which were claimed to be printed on a 4K or 8k machine.
But I have to say that your video might miss a pretty big point IMO. The size of the build plate is quite important. When I find a 3D model online that wasn't designed for printers, it often comes in one piece and having a sizable mini might get tricky. Even with Artisan Guild, some of their prints barely fit my bed.
In other words, "Quality" is not what would make me change my printer but size might but only for a similar price.
Thanks for the info, so which printer do you recommends?
@@deccicator There is plenty of reviews out there. As I said, focus on a decent resolution (0.05mmm is enough), mono lcd because it makes print faster (and theorically last longer). The other things are only quality of life like build plate size and opening system.
I have got a Photon mono : 2K screen of 13x8 cm and 16 cm height max. It is really good when used properly and quite cheap (150 euros on sales and it almost always is on sales). The things that bother me the most is the size of the build plate that is sometimes to small to print free stl files that were not design for 3D printing (I highly recommand to buy stl files from myminifactory : artisan guild, archivallain, loot studio and such produce amazing file that come out perfect) and the lid, I'd want to put my printer in a closet but almost all the cheap printer come with a plactic lid that you have to remove completly, a front door would have been better.
Overall, what affects the quality of your prints the most is the quality of your resin and how you handle it. Cheap resin is about 20 euros a liter and I take the phrozen 4k resins that cost 40. I print in a "warm" (below 17°C is not recommended) room with settings that I took from a discord channel and it works great. I work at a place that does 3D printing for maquettes with 300K resin printer and 200 euros a liter for resin and I can tell you the details are gonna be roughly the same but the resin does a lot of difference, we can to clips that last pretty long with this and surfaces can be very thin.
Honestly what was the mosty quality of life things was the wash and cure machine, which costed more than my printer. But having to just pop the build plate and put it on top of the right size air tight container with magnet stirring to wash is so nice and the built in UV cureing with the UV resistant lid makes it very easy to cure large piece.
TL:DR : If you are not sure, take a noticable brand between 150 and 250 (like Anycubic Elegoo). Take a good resin. Take good settings from the comunity. And think about the process of cleaning and curing.
Good luck
@@LeDracodon Thanks man I’m gonna look for a printer with this infos !!
Very good video and I agree that those higher resolutions are indeed bottlenecked by other factors, mainly Resin imo.. Too bad Phrozen did not send you a bottle of their new 8k resin along with the printer. Would be interesting to see if that makes a difference...
I believe what we are seeing are diminishing returns. We have the same issue with polygons in 3d graphics, as you keep increasing the number of ploygons on 3d models the definition goes up think about the difference between ps1 and ps3 graphics but at some point number of polygons no longer makes the difference eg. ps4 and ps5
I still see layer shifts on the 8K prints (6:25 on her chin). So the z-axis is just as good/bad as always. Consumer printers will always be consumer printers it seems. If I might end up with the Mini 8K, I will have to swap some parts for better ones (precision class/grade H).
I don't own a 3D printer, but I'm a sucker for these types of comparisons 👍 similarly, I love to tweak video game settings and to look at movie screenshots from sites like caps-a-holic, as well as comparisons of film and video restorations.
Great video - Have you tried to use the 8K resin?
I have not
I think the most important 3d printer upgrade you can make is a larger print surface. Cutting up larger models into parts can work, but you will always see the points of fusion. I'm looking to get a larger 3d printer for giant models and busts to compliment my 2k 6inch printer.
5:53 I just KNEW you had those models lol
4k seems to be more than enough for me. With everyone focusing on the 8k printers I was able to get a brand new 4k printer for 1/3 of the price of 8k printers.
That's a lot of 'maybe'!! Part of the fun I guess....
I have access to a Formlabs Form 3 at work and seeing what it does compared to my home printer just blows my mind. Pro printers are on a different level for sure
Have you tried the Phrozen 8K resin? It makes a difference on an 8K Printer.
Merry Christmas, brother.
A very good video that discusses key aspects of resin printers.
Though 8k provides a higher resolution it doesn't mean the pixel density is also higher, a lot of manufacturers will also increase the print size (physical dimensions) so at the end of the day a 2.5k and 8k printer will have similar DPI(Dots Per Inch). The 8k can however print significantly large models that a 2.5k printer could only dream of.
This likely explains why there is little noticeable fidelity difference between them all.
Scott addressed DPI in the video - I think you're thinking of the Sonic Mega 8k. The Sonic Mini 8k has ~22um pixels, whereas the 4k has ~35um pixels, and the 2k is ~50um. I think the difference wasn't as visible because lower layer heights have a much larger impact on quality for higher resolutions because of voxel sizings.
@@NikkiAnnMarie It was kind of frustrating that he gave a really good explanation about why the PPI was the important thing rather than the resolutions and then never said what the PPI for any of the printers is... I ended up rewatching the section 3 times convinced that I was somehow missing it.