its a ground cam.its got either an air leak.or the jets need to be bigger.spray a mix of water and dish wash liquid around carb and inlet and you will hear and see if its got air leak.if that checks out make sure carb was no crap in it.if that's ok richen jets by 3 numbers higher.its either one or the other.this should make cam run smoother.
Great work...a lot of comments on here---I can't improve on the advice already given. Carburetors are really fussy! A little junk in a jet and the whole thing runs like sh*T. A small vacuum leak and they'll make the engine lope and lack power. The oil bath restiction may be it. Like the guy suggested, try restricting the intake at the top to simulate the restriction that would normally be created by air being pulled through the oil bath, and you may have it. Nothing like tearing the carb down again and going through everything with a tiny pin or wire to clean it out. Install a fuel filter right at the carb inlet and try premium gas. If all this fails, Fire the engine up and head the rig for the nearest cliff and put a rock on the gas pedal, them slam it in gear with a stick through the window. Many of my vehicles have smartened up when I prepared them for the cliff test! LOL
I bought this carb dirt cheap on E-bay as "parts or rebuild". I figured it would at least allow me to run the engine. It's had a rough life though. It has three stripped out holes and I had to jam copper wire down the holes to get the screws to bite and hold it together. I made gaskets for it and the rest of the internals were "serviceable" for what I needed. The other day I was running it and found the smoking gun. I had the oil bath removed and saw an intermittent trickle of fuel coming from the bowl vent. I know somehow that the needle isn't shutting off be it float, needle, or seat. I have a known good Stromberg 2 barrel with a similar CFM that I'm going to adapt. This tired old Holley 94 has done it's job and then some. That would be something if you went for the cliff, sent it on the way and about 20 feet from you it finally started acting properly!
It seems like it's too lean especially at idle. I don't think the problem is with the cam, I think the problem is either a vacuum leak somewhere for the carb is too lean especially at idle.
Yea. If I just barely hand choke it, it levels off. Just barely cupping my hand over the intake. The idle mixture screws make no difference. I've been through this carb twice now and the idle circuits seem to be open. I don't know... I have an oil bath filter on the way and I'm hoping that will set it right but even if it does that doesn't seem like a proper fix.
@@heliarcheprobably has a bad gasket between the carb, or intake and block. Other thing I was thinking was valves needed adjusting since the valve faces wear more than the stem and they are leaking ever so slightly and pushing air back into the intake manifold, making it lean
@@crazymower4343 I went around it with a can of ether while it was running and I couldn't find anything. Might have been a slight change when I got real close to the carb but that's probably pulling ether in through the intake. This engine is completely overhauled with maybe three hours on it. I assembled it myself. Of course I could have screwed up but I figure had all the valves dead nuts in spec. I'm still thinking carb. Idle mixture screws make no difference.
If the ignition timing is too low it will cause one to cut up like that at idle. Seems as though the throttle response was a bit slow and that may be another indication the ignition timing is low. I'd use a little carb spray to check for vacuum leaks. Something that old could have a worn throttle shaft. That will show up when you restrict the air horn of the carburetor and the idle speed increases. These old engines are a blast to work on but a guy can sure open up a can of worms.
I went around it with a can of ether, seems like it's sealed up pretty well. If I get close to the carb I think I can hear a very slight change in idle but it might be pulling ether into the intake. Right now, it has no vacuum advance. The advance unit itself is shot so I plugged everything off until I can get another.
That carb is made for an oil bath air filter which is pretty restrictive at idle which is what your hand choke was simulating so I'd put a filter on and see if that helps.
It's possible for a factory cam to be re-ground into decently radical profiles. I've had factory cams reground into thumpers. I don't think that's what is happening here though, but just letting you know it's possible.
Yea I'm with you. I don't really think it's cammed or a ground cam but sure sounds like it. It's just driving me nuts... I'm going to get the carb off, get a proper kit and boil the body in Lysol. I've had good luck with that when there's some stubborn junk in them.
Some engines use manifold vacuum to advance the timing at idle. You stated that you disconnected yours because it doesn’t work right. I would try advancing your initial timing a bit to see if it helps the idle.
Yea. The diaphragm in the vacuum advance is rotted away. I want to replace it. Just not sure where to get GOOD parts and exactly what I need. I could give it a little advance and see what happens to the idle. This one uses ported/modulated vacuum on the advance but I still can't imagine the advance it's doing nothing at idle.
How would you know if the motor rebuild was good if you don’t check the compression.. doesn’t run smooth tho never know what it is carbs suck they have too many issues but sounds normal for a vehicle that year
I forget the numbers but I did compression after I got the block back from machining and I assembled it. Bored .080" over and honed, new pistons and rings. Compression was great. I love carbs. Usually just keep them clean and if nothing is broken they just work. I've missed something and that's what's tripping me up.
If you bottom out the idle mixture screw(s) and it still runs then its pulling fuel from another circuit or an internal leak. If you back the idle speed screw out does it die? It should, and if it doesn't then you have a fuel leak AND an air leak. Assuming it does die then turn the idle speed screw just enough to make it idle (1-2 turns). You may even need more base timing to get it to idle nice with minimal idle speed screw opening. Re-check the idle mixture screws with the idle speed screw as far in as it can be to still run to see if they affect the idle. If they do, then the throttle blade was too far open, likely needed from not enough timing, and it was pulling fuel from the transition circuit. If they still do nothing the problem is an internal leak in the carb. Good luck.
I'm probably going to have to read this a few more times but I appreciate the help. I can bottom the idle mixture screws out and yea it keeps running. They don't seem to matter. I can bottom them out or turn them out to where they almost fall out and it makes no difference. I bought this carb as "parts only" cleaned it up and hey it runs but I've never had it idling properly. If I back out the idle speed screw it does die. I also puffed around the intake with ether and no change in idle so I'm fairly sure there's no vacuum leak. I've backed the idle speed down as far as I possibly can to where it's just barely shitting and farting along at idle and the mixture screws make no difference. I think I'll have to pull the distributor to get more timing. The advance unit only let's me barely advance it. Here's one thing though, the vacuum advance is shot. I have the port on the carb plugged so there's no vacuum leak. That's likely to throw me off isn't it? I just got it running with whatever garbage I could afford at the time.
@@heliarche Look down the carb as is running to see if there is dripping from the booster. Might have the float level too high or a needle and seat issue that is letting extra fuel in somewhere.
@@andysteele4056 Understood. I'll check that out. Only thing, I don't understand why cupping my hand over the carb intake would smooth it out if it were letting in extra fuel. I also want to get a new vacuum advance on this thing. I don't know if that's throwing me off but I want to correct as much as I can.
@@heliarche I think cupping your hand over it is just adjusting the air/fuel ratio of the leak or maybe increasing velocity of the dripping fuel helps to atomize better. Does it smell rich or lean at idle?
@@andysteele4056 It doesn't seem to be idling rich. You smell exhaust but it's not obnoxious. I took a gander down the throat of the carb and I don't see anything coming out of the sprayers for the acclelerator pump. I did that thing where you rev it and clap your hand over the intake and the idle improved. I think I'll take that carb off and boil it in Lysol. I must have missed some crud.
Definitely need to get it running on the idle circuit. My flathead idles smooth as glass and would slow down if you give it some "hand choke". I don't remember it running any different with/without the oil bath filter, I think it's the same.
shit's old. The cam is probly just be worn out! The metal wasn't as good, neither was the design, or oil, and it was probly a teenagers beeter, at some point. pull the head & measure lift. It ain't hard to do that. i probly wouldn't even measure them, with numbers, just compare them to each other.
I had the cam and crank to a specialist around here. He's well respected, knows Flatties and gave them both the thumbs up. For what it's worth, as I was assembling the engine I was turning it, feeling and looking. Everything seemed fine. I'm sure it was whooped on plenty back in the day!
@@heliarche I thought it was untouched... but since it was visually inspected, time for function tests. Compression & leakdown. Pull the oil cap before the leakdown test, or it might pop some seals. i would probly still pull the head, because it's so easy,
@@Iowa599 This entire thing is overhauled. Chcuck Exton in Canadensis PA. His shop is Exton Automotive. He gave this block the works. I can't recommend the guy enough. I think 6 months start to finish and under $3K. Everything that could be done was done. He also skimmed the heads just to make sure they're nice and flat. He even did something with the main bearing caps. Trued them up or something? I don't know but this engine is pretty much brand new. I assembled it myself. Egge pistons, Egge adjustable lifters, Hastings rings, everything that Chuck said is what I bought. That doesn't mean there can't be something wrong, just saying it was a ton more than a visual. I had hands on every component inside and out and it all went together beautifully. That's not honking my own horn, more the skill of the machinist and good parts making me look good!
its a ground cam.its got either an air leak.or the jets need to be bigger.spray a mix of water and dish wash liquid around carb and inlet and you will hear and see if its got air leak.if that checks out make sure carb was no crap in it.if that's ok richen jets by 3 numbers higher.its either one or the other.this should make cam run smoother.
Great work...a lot of comments on here---I can't improve on the advice already given. Carburetors are really fussy! A little junk in a jet and the whole thing runs like sh*T. A small vacuum leak and they'll make the engine lope and lack power. The oil bath restiction may be it. Like the guy suggested, try restricting the intake at the top to simulate the restriction that would normally be created by air being pulled through the oil bath, and you may have it. Nothing like tearing the carb down again and going through everything with a tiny pin or wire to clean it out. Install a fuel filter right at the carb inlet and try premium gas. If all this fails, Fire the engine up and head the rig for the nearest cliff and put a rock on the gas pedal, them slam it in gear with a stick through the window. Many of my vehicles have smartened up when I prepared them for the cliff test! LOL
I bought this carb dirt cheap on E-bay as "parts or rebuild". I figured it would at least allow me to run the engine. It's had a rough life though. It has three stripped out holes and I had to jam copper wire down the holes to get the screws to bite and hold it together. I made gaskets for it and the rest of the internals were "serviceable" for what I needed. The other day I was running it and found the smoking gun. I had the oil bath removed and saw an intermittent trickle of fuel coming from the bowl vent. I know somehow that the needle isn't shutting off be it float, needle, or seat. I have a known good Stromberg 2 barrel with a similar CFM that I'm going to adapt. This tired old Holley 94 has done it's job and then some.
That would be something if you went for the cliff, sent it on the way and about 20 feet from you it finally started acting properly!
It seems like it's too lean especially at idle. I don't think the problem is with the cam, I think the problem is either a vacuum leak somewhere for the carb is too lean especially at idle.
Yea. If I just barely hand choke it, it levels off. Just barely cupping my hand over the intake. The idle mixture screws make no difference. I've been through this carb twice now and the idle circuits seem to be open. I don't know... I have an oil bath filter on the way and I'm hoping that will set it right but even if it does that doesn't seem like a proper fix.
Sometimes the wrong/ worn power valve will have it thrown off like that .
@@heliarcheprobably has a bad gasket between the carb, or intake and block. Other thing I was thinking was valves needed adjusting since the valve faces wear more than the stem and they are leaking ever so slightly and pushing air back into the intake manifold, making it lean
@@crazymower4343 I went around it with a can of ether while it was running and I couldn't find anything. Might have been a slight change when I got real close to the carb but that's probably pulling ether in through the intake. This engine is completely overhauled with maybe three hours on it. I assembled it myself. Of course I could have screwed up but I figure had all the valves dead nuts in spec. I'm still thinking carb. Idle mixture screws make no difference.
If the ignition timing is too low it will cause one to cut up like that at idle. Seems as though the throttle response was a bit slow and that may be another indication the ignition timing is low. I'd use a little carb spray to check for vacuum leaks. Something that old could have a worn throttle shaft. That will show up when you restrict the air horn of the carburetor and the idle speed increases. These old engines are a blast to work on but a guy can sure open up a can of worms.
I went around it with a can of ether, seems like it's sealed up pretty well. If I get close to the carb I think I can hear a very slight change in idle but it might be pulling ether into the intake. Right now, it has no vacuum advance. The advance unit itself is shot so I plugged everything off until I can get another.
@@heliarche You'll get it ironed out. I know you can and I know you will.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Hey thanks for the faith Bud! It'll come around for sure.
FoMoCo stands for Ford Motor Company.
i heard engines idle like that before... not sure what's doing that, but the sound isn't unfamiliar on running cars on the street...
That carb is made for an oil bath air filter which is pretty restrictive at idle which is what your hand choke was simulating so I'd put a filter on and see if that helps.
I have one on the way. I hope it'll work and I think it will.
It's possible for a factory cam to be re-ground into decently radical profiles. I've had factory cams reground into thumpers. I don't think that's what is happening here though, but just letting you know it's possible.
Yea I'm with you. I don't really think it's cammed or a ground cam but sure sounds like it. It's just driving me nuts... I'm going to get the carb off, get a proper kit and boil the body in Lysol. I've had good luck with that when there's some stubborn junk in them.
Some engines use manifold vacuum to advance the timing at idle. You stated that you disconnected yours because it doesn’t work right.
I would try advancing your initial timing a bit to see if it helps the idle.
Yea. The diaphragm in the vacuum advance is rotted away. I want to replace it. Just not sure where to get GOOD parts and exactly what I need. I could give it a little advance and see what happens to the idle. This one uses ported/modulated vacuum on the advance but I still can't imagine the advance it's doing nothing at idle.
How would you know if the motor rebuild was good if you don’t check the compression.. doesn’t run smooth tho never know what it is carbs suck they have too many issues but sounds normal for a vehicle that year
I forget the numbers but I did compression after I got the block back from machining and I assembled it. Bored .080" over and honed, new pistons and rings. Compression was great. I love carbs. Usually just keep them clean and if nothing is broken they just work. I've missed something and that's what's tripping me up.
If you bottom out the idle mixture screw(s) and it still runs then its pulling fuel from another circuit or an internal leak. If you back the idle speed screw out does it die? It should, and if it doesn't then you have a fuel leak AND an air leak. Assuming it does die then turn the idle speed screw just enough to make it idle (1-2 turns). You may even need more base timing to get it to idle nice with minimal idle speed screw opening. Re-check the idle mixture screws with the idle speed screw as far in as it can be to still run to see if they affect the idle. If they do, then the throttle blade was too far open, likely needed from not enough timing, and it was pulling fuel from the transition circuit. If they still do nothing the problem is an internal leak in the carb. Good luck.
I'm probably going to have to read this a few more times but I appreciate the help.
I can bottom the idle mixture screws out and yea it keeps running. They don't seem to matter. I can bottom them out or turn them out to where they almost fall out and it makes no difference. I bought this carb as "parts only" cleaned it up and hey it runs but I've never had it idling properly. If I back out the idle speed screw it does die. I also puffed around the intake with ether and no change in idle so I'm fairly sure there's no vacuum leak.
I've backed the idle speed down as far as I possibly can to where it's just barely shitting and farting along at idle and the mixture screws make no difference.
I think I'll have to pull the distributor to get more timing. The advance unit only let's me barely advance it. Here's one thing though, the vacuum advance is shot. I have the port on the carb plugged so there's no vacuum leak. That's likely to throw me off isn't it? I just got it running with whatever garbage I could afford at the time.
@@heliarche Look down the carb as is running to see if there is dripping from the booster. Might have the float level too high or a needle and seat issue that is letting extra fuel in somewhere.
@@andysteele4056 Understood. I'll check that out. Only thing, I don't understand why cupping my hand over the carb intake would smooth it out if it were letting in extra fuel. I also want to get a new vacuum advance on this thing. I don't know if that's throwing me off but I want to correct as much as I can.
@@heliarche I think cupping your hand over it is just adjusting the air/fuel ratio of the leak or maybe increasing velocity of the dripping fuel helps to atomize better. Does it smell rich or lean at idle?
@@andysteele4056 It doesn't seem to be idling rich. You smell exhaust but it's not obnoxious. I took a gander down the throat of the carb and I don't see anything coming out of the sprayers for the acclelerator pump. I did that thing where you rev it and clap your hand over the intake and the idle improved. I think I'll take that carb off and boil it in Lysol. I must have missed some crud.
Either cam timing or ignition timing sounds off to me.
Advance the timing a bit, and get the idle circuit working properly. That engine is running on the run circuit.
Definitely need to get it running on the idle circuit. My flathead idles smooth as glass and would slow down if you give it some "hand choke". I don't remember it running any different with/without the oil bath filter, I think it's the same.
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Put the air cleaner on
I have one on the way. Oil bath.
shit's old. The cam is probly just be worn out! The metal wasn't as good, neither was the design, or oil, and it was probly a teenagers beeter, at some point.
pull the head & measure lift. It ain't hard to do that.
i probly wouldn't even measure them, with numbers, just compare them to each other.
I had the cam and crank to a specialist around here. He's well respected, knows Flatties and gave them both the thumbs up. For what it's worth, as I was assembling the engine I was turning it, feeling and looking. Everything seemed fine. I'm sure it was whooped on plenty back in the day!
@@heliarche I thought it was untouched...
but since it was visually inspected, time for function tests. Compression & leakdown.
Pull the oil cap before the leakdown test, or it might pop some seals.
i would probly still pull the head, because it's so easy,
@@Iowa599 This entire thing is overhauled. Chcuck Exton in Canadensis PA. His shop is Exton Automotive. He gave this block the works. I can't recommend the guy enough. I think 6 months start to finish and under $3K. Everything that could be done was done. He also skimmed the heads just to make sure they're nice and flat. He even did something with the main bearing caps. Trued them up or something? I don't know but this engine is pretty much brand new. I assembled it myself. Egge pistons, Egge adjustable lifters, Hastings rings, everything that Chuck said is what I bought. That doesn't mean there can't be something wrong, just saying it was a ton more than a visual. I had hands on every component inside and out and it all went together beautifully. That's not honking my own horn, more the skill of the machinist and good parts making me look good!
Well, it sounds like something isn't right.
@@Iowa599 We'll get there. I think the engine is fundamentally OK.