$30 Haircut…… (Continue down for QnA) Q1. I thought Travel Speed doesn’t correlate to Combat Speed? A: Generally, it doesn’t within fiction. However, in Dragon Ball, the higher you increase your overall battle power or ki, all your stats including combat speed adjusts as well. There are a few exceptions to this in the show but Goku’s able to travel to North Glacier in minutes can correlate to how fast he can fight against #13. Q2: Why did you overhype #13’s S.S. Deadly Bomber Calc? A: Since it’s the ONLY best-supposed feat he can perform and I know fans out there might think planet level is too weak, I wanted to show how you can calculate feats differently as opposed to assuming the low-end is the only acceptable choice. You don’t need to agree with the hypothetical highballed scaling, but it was just to inform people of the clear difference in destructive power within Dragon Ball and Fiction in general. Q3: No DBH scaling for #13??? A: yeah, sadly, there really wasn’t much to go over so apologies if I sounded too direct about it but it’s hard to give him some multiversal-level scaling when he barely has any screen time. Like I said if just his mere presence or association to the brand allows that then all right then, I just didn’t want to pick through straws to assume that’s the case when people might disagree. Q4: What’s the whole deal with you debunking the anime and movie connection? A: Long story short, the internet has funny ways to justify their opinions. (lol) I understand that we want to assume that by association, every Goku that exists must be as strong as the anime but that’s not how it works. I’ve already debunked this 3 times in my other videos to prove how convoluted and quite frankly inconsistent to support that claim, so I’m not going to harp on it towards people but because this is how I structure my videos, I need to break it down for any newcomers to my videos and because I basically know most of the counterarguments. But like I said, believe what you want to believe, I’m just an idiot having too much fun making these types of videos. XD Q5: Wasn't Android 13 stated to have infinite power? A: Yes, I am aware of that. So OBVIOUSLY, if you go by the meme logic, yes, he is infinite Universal I guess (lol). That being said, The twin androids possess infinite ki due to their generators inside them. Meaning you would think they are undefeatable for having infinite power but CLEARLY, in the series, they get outclassed by stronger characters. The actual answer is that they merely possess infinite stamina and never get tired out but can still get overpowered. Android 13's supposed "infinite power" can mean he has infinite ki and stamina, as opposed to having High Universal Power. Otherwise, his Signature attack should not cap at planet level. Also, This was implied in Meta Cooler's lore as well, so this unironically further supports my claims that future villians scale above past villains BECAUSE Bojack has no such claims and but Meta-Cooler does, meaning Both Meta-Cooler and #13 stalemate but then they should automatically outclass Bojack or Turles, and so on. But yeah, TL:DR, It can simply mean #13 has infinite ki and stamina and doesn't have to correlate to his attack potency. A minor error I realized before it was too late was that Toei’s statement was released AFTER Wrath of the Dragon, Not Fusion Reborn. Also, I did not come up with the intro skit. It was inspired by another funny skit that I wanted to replicate since I didn’t know how to start out my video off (lol). The original skit is in the Description.
Well yes it has been like that from the very start of the series the power levels are there to show how powerful an opponent is and since Goku and Vegeta has learned a technique where they no longer need the power level eye thingy they can just sense an opponent power levels on the spot.
Q4: as you acknowledged in your video, Koyama writes the movies with the intention of them following/being in-line with the Anime. Toriyama also flat out says that they’re based on his original work: “In most cases with the movies, the script writers used their marvelous techniques to write up an original story, based on my original work. The original work develops in such a way that it makes it difficult to come up with side-stories, so I think they really did a good job.” Toriyama stating he views them to take place in a different dimension isn’t a ticket to try and weirdly scale them differently. And with Coola, given Koyama’s statements we can safely assume the Daizenshuu is wrong about its placement. The Z Fighters were still dealing with Dr. Gero in the Anime and First Form Cell was just introduced in the Manga. Not to mention Gohan’s design and lack of Super Saiyan (including the lack of any Super Saiyan Grade above Grade 1). They should just both be Multi-Solar System Level, and 13 dwarfs Meta-Coola through in-universe scaling and Koyama’s statement (which can be applied when not talking Broli).
I think, this movie is the unseen timeline, they disabled 17 and 18 with the remote control and thought it was over. (Cell will never come to into this timeline, and so, no time chamber and a "weaker Trunks.) So, Trunks is probably chilling out, before going back to his own time line to disable the androids in his own timeline, but after that, Cell will end up killing him. Going back in time with Trunks machine to arrive to the timeline we know as the "main."
Eh, I doubt it personally and I also doubt the writers had that in mind when making this. Especially as it does not say how 17 & 18 are taken down here. More like this is a what if sort of thing.
@@mercenaryknight5419 Its 100% headcanon and I too think they didnt have that in mind, but its also super cool and definitely makes this movie a lot more interesting(and tragic for this Trunks) so I very much think it *should* be canon
@@mercenaryknight5419the writers also didn’t have the cell games in mind when writing return of cooler (as that movie was made almost a year before the cell games even existed) yet for some reason the daizenshuu thinks return of cooler=10 day gap for the cell games
You should AT THE VERY LEAST scale ordinary Android 13 as way above Final Form Frieza. There's no conceivable way that Android 13 isn't at least ~250x star level since that's where Frieza sits at and there's no way Android Saga Super Saiyans wouldn't be able to deal with him. It should be pretty safe to assume that Super 13 movie Dragon Team scales above Final Form Frieza, which means that so should Android 13. The fact that base Android 13's S.S. Deadly Bomber was half-Earth-buster only suggests its destructive potential, not overall strength. No one's suggesting that Frieza's Death Beams, which are his signature moves, could bust large stars but Frieza without a doubt is a Star-tier character. IMO Android 13 may not be able of destroying large stars, but he'd be able to take blows from, injure and defeat Star-tier characters because that's where his stats seem to be
I personally think that 13’s existence is really cool because it shows the versatility of Gero’s designs. Now imagine the 17/18 Series Engines which are more powerful than the 13/14/15 set with the same Ability of Combination. That combined with the ability to train and get stronger yourself like 17 and 18 do in Super? You could quite easily keep up with or maybe even surpass the Saiyans with that kind of technology…
You are awesome and i like how you also include a composite versions of the characters from even the most obscure video games ! Now im waiting for Janemba and especially Hirudegarn videos :)
Do you plan to go over content from the BoG and RoF movies? - ignoring the scaling from the alter/new adapted DBS. It would be cool to see the power depths from the original films.
The inevitable OG Broly videos is probably going to be an 1 hour💀. Anyways pretty good video while I'm not really a power-scalar these are very fun watches.
Hope you don’t get too many “When are you gonna do Broly?” comments. TeamFourStar went through plenty of those. I think base 13 scales to Black Frieza because I said so.
I’m going to use your logic for a second…. If Beerus and Goku almost destroy the fabric of the universe with a shockwaves of their punches. That must mean that every human on the planet can overscale to that level since they survived it and were the closest than anyone to Beerus and Goku , even though the average human only has a power level of 5.
for the movie anime contradiction, every one of them say their trying to make it as close to the original as possible yes, the movies have their own scaling, but in movies like cooler's revenge or bojack, the anime version of events is implied to have happened things are still different (cooler says goku killed freeza, goku doesn't have instant transmission) but the freeza fight is still implied to have happened the same way
I’m glad you mentioned Godzilla when talking about continuity. Godzilla 1954 is canon with pretty much every Godzilla continuity with few exceptions (like Monsterverse, Netflix anime… other Netflix anime, 1998…). Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, despite the 1954 movie being canonical with all the Showa and Heisei movies the showa and heisei continuities aren’t canonical with each other.
Well personality! I state him as 1. Android 13 (DBZ): multi star level 2. Super 13 (DBZ): multi large star level 3. King of destruction super 13 (SDBH): multi large star level 4. Dark factor super 13 (UGM): low multiversal I get!? 🤷
I Personally Believe - And My Logic Is -- Because Of Just How Easily Super 13 Ran Through The Z Fighters, Plus His Spirit Bomb Super Saiyan Goku Death - Well Z Broly Ran Through The Z Fighters And Kid Buu Death To A Spirit Bomb Super Saiyan Goku --- He Should Be Between Broly & Kid Buu Level Threat , He Just Never Got The Opportunity To Stretch His Legs Out ..
Oh boy... a lot of people consider the movies 'non-canon' because people love the word so much, they cannot even spell it correctly I still can't get my head over the 'my move can destroy half a planet' when by now Frieza in 1st form can destroy a planet with greatest of ease. It feels like by movie scaling, the characters would be far weaker than Namek Saga characters as even Vegeta could pulverize a planet with his Galick Gun. How come that Super 13 is not in Xenoverse yet?
Right. I edited that to the qna comment I pinned. it can simply mean he has access to infinite ki and stamina since power is often associated to the android's ki. The same thing was mentioned to Meta-Cooler and yet we see how they androids can still lose in the show like Trunks vs the future androids or Semi-Cell Vs #18 and stuff. But like what I also said at the end of the video, who am I to tell you what to think. I 100% agree he has infinite power. It would only further prove he would smack Broly in one-hit. Andrew 13 cannot be beaten XD. Thanks for bringing it up since I only discovered that statement after completing the video.
@@extremelegendsupreme4596 I think you are right. In the Anime(Toei) version, he shows a Galaxy destroying feat which was shown after the Frieza Saga and begining of Cell
Can ANYONE confirm for me if "$30 Haircut" an insult because of it's cheapness or expense? This has bugged me for a long time. Back when I HAD hair, I was used to spending about $15-20 for a simple haircut, but then I worked at a salon, where people regularly spent nearly $200 on cut and colours ect. The inflection in his voice makes me THINK it's insulting him for being cheap. But $30 for a male haircut still seems like a lot to me.
yeah. it got copyrighted for 15 seconds of material despite deeming the other full minute as acceptable. don't worry. Re-uploading it and removing the problem, hopefully passing the system.
Well piccolo from the meta cooler movie was already kamiccolo... What about this piccolo? If this piccolo wasn't that means cooler would outclass a13...
That is an extemely reaching definition of "destroy." Breaking real good versus dissolving the entirety of the matter down into heat energy noise is not quite the same thing.
Okay, quick question: im tryna find the DBZ movie dubs, but im finding it UNREASONABLY hard to do so. I know that they exist, but streaming services only carry the subs. Does anyone know where the dub is?
Roshi could destroy the planet, this is all that power scaling bullshit that doesn’t make sense. That blast that he is claiming to destroy half the Earth would actually instantly vaporize it. And where are these translations in the original Japanese dub or English? Cause English likes to fuck stuff
Someone doesn’t pay attention when they watch shows. You say that nobody would be shopping or anything because androids are searching for Goku and destroying the planet, you’ll see people shopping while they’re destroying the planet in the show AND the future trunks movie, also like 80% of your logic is flawed as hell. Also Akira was the worst writing things in the proper continuity. Constantly forgot that characters even existed. And he also forgot that his movies weren’t canon which was done said in an interview then the comment about them being in their own reality was implied. If you’re gonna bullshit it then it’s not canon I’m sorry. Because if you want to apply that logic, then you’re admitting GT was Cannon as well, which is how you’ll instantly lose your fan base.
It’s cool to do dragon ball content. But please stop with the headcannon. It’s never said in any source material that gero had any involvement in major metallitron or Android 8. ANDROID 8 is credited in the MANGA as being created by a complete different doctor, which makes sense as Gero wasnt even conceptualized until many years later. That was a blatant headcannon lie. Please stick to Facts. There’s enough misinformation in the community as it is
Check again. Toriyama, the creator himself states that he was the one who created all of RRA's weapons as he was one of the founding members. Dr.Flappe was an anime exclusive character who was stated as the creator but was never part of the original manga story. Daizenshuu 7 clarifies that they were collegues and both worked on android 8 and previous artificial humans. Thats also why I inserted that manga panel cover that clearly displays the timeline of each android created under the hands of Dr.gero himself. Hence why i said "technically, android 13 is canon in the original story" so no, I was not using headcanon. Obviously, you can say Toriyama retconned the backstory or lore of Eighter but otherwise, I was using factual sources by the story and creator himself. So don't act like I was intentionally spreading misinformation. If I notice a mistake in my video, I will naturally call out my video errors. If it's a grey-area topic thats meant to be speculated, I'll naturally say "its up to you guys to decide" since I merely lay out what we do know and then move on. Toriyama Interview source: www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-artificial-humans-cell-arc-01/
@@Numbers2133 it’s fine to try to use a technicality as well. Of course we know there are canon androids 13-15 we have no way to be able to say they were the same androids as displayed in the MOVIE timeline. They were all stated to have been defective. To draw any other conclusion would constitute as headcannon as they aren’t confirmed by any visual other than their number. You directly credited Dr gero as a creator of major metallitron when this is never stated. Even using the daizenshuu is faulty as we know the information presented can directly contradict itself. I give daizenshuu 2 and 3 as examples. Daizenshuu 2 states that ultimate Gohan can use the ssj form while in the ultimate state, however daizenshuu 3 DIRECTLY contradicts this saying that he cannot. It was misleading in the sense that it’s not factual or confirmed that gero designed major metallitron. He isn’t even categorized as an android in any of the sources I’ve seen depicting geros creations. Once again toriyama didn’t conceptualize gero until we’ll after the original run of Dragon ball had ended so either were accepting the blanket “retcon” of gero (who is never mentioned in the entirety of dragon ball until Z) creating all of the red ribbons armaments and androids. By that flow of headcannon I would be on the right path in assuming that gero created the modifications for Cyborg Tao Pai Pai, even though this is never stated or explained.
@@wavelordcelliano1746 Yes, I know, i said "TECHNICALLY" because MANGA WISE, android 13 existed. I wasn't trying to imply the EXACT ONE TO ONE SAME android 13 as in the movie. Cuz we literally know nothing about android 13 from the original story. In my video, I brought it up as a little fun fact, not whether there as some other implication about it. I hope you did read that Toriyama Q&A because he clearly states Gero created ALL weapons for RRA. Major Metallitron IS a weapon. I didn't even labeled Major as an android, just that Gero was his creator, nothing more. He is a robot after all so regardless of him being categorized as an android or not is relevant, just that Gero created him. Again, I was simply establishing the overall build up to Android 13's creation and lore. Lastly, just because two sources contradict each other doesn't mean we cannot use either of them. Toriyama has said prior, the daizenshuu would have made his story better if he had them at the time, meaning he does support their usage. Just because one source is valid, doesn't mean every other source is valid by default. Likewise, just cuz one source is wrong, doesn't mean all sources are wrong. That is why its a case by case situation. if the source is wrong, then great, ignore it, move on. if one source doesn't contradict the story, great, its valid. Hence why its called preponderance of evidence. if the vast majority of lore, statements, guides, etc, leans on Gero being the creator of these robots, then there is no contradiction or inconsistency or outlier. So yes, you can simply label it as a retcon since Gero wasn't written until Z era. There is nothing wrong with that. You can say thats bad writing, thats fine, i don't care. But that is its own topic at that point. I'm not arguing about the quality of the lore writing, just stating what the lore even is to setup my main topic of my video. That all my intention for my intro was that Gero was part of RRA, wants revenge against Goku, has knowledge on creating androids, leading to Android 13's creation for the movie.
Liked the video. I got some long questions about movie continuity. Not exactly a debunk or anything but more about if a sort of "continuity interpretation could be valid" sort of thing. I personally think you're scaling makes sense and I pretty much agree with your movie scaling (and the others since I don't know about the games too much). 1. In that scan earlier on it comes off more like Toriyama is saying that he sees the movies as "stories" (plural) that take place in another dimension (singular), which would imply that they all coincide with the same dimension. Kind of like "people from another country." Sure they all could be from different countries but until further context is given, we'd assume it'd be the former, right? 2. And doesn't Toriyama kind of defer to Koyama who, in that one tweet in the hatchiyack video, said something like Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans doesn't fit in the "timeline of the Z movie" or something like that. (I think the google translate screwed it up and when it should've been "Z movie timeline" or "timeline of the Z movies" or something like that.) Doesn't that imply that the movies could all be linked together if there's a continuity Hatchiyack specifically doesn't fit in. Especially if one is featured in the OVA similar to Fusion Reborn. This unlike GT where Cooler only appears as an Easter egg image but never an actual plot device like the other villains the characters killed again. 3. And if there were guides that said things about certain characters being revived and killed again by Gohan, Goten and Trunks in Fusion Reborn, regardless of them being in the movie or not, would it not count because the audience didn't see it or would they still be considered present in terms of the plot and just not the audience. And if the former would it be a contradiction/outlier or have any bit of consistency with anything else. 4. Depending on the answers (to the last 2) Daizenshuu 6's "another dimension" statements could be interpreted as the same and not different dimensions. Especially if Dazenshuu 6 seemingly "speculates" movie timeline placement as opposed to makes "hard statements" kind of like how The Manga of Legend series states that "based on his precautions against Dabura, Kaioshin might be as strong as Cell Games Goku." Statements like those come off as something that can be disagreed with. Especially if the guide misses something as opposed to a straight "Cell can destroy a solar system." 5. And would the nature of the movies contradicting the main canon's continuity contradict the notion that the movies could be one "timeline" regardless of that? Especially considering the movies weren't exactly made to fit in with that? (Sorry if I worded that in a confusing way.) 6. I think I also saw this towards the end of Chuck's recent movie scaling video a while ago, but didn't Koyama say that he might've been biased to Broly being the strongest or something? 7. This is specific for Android 13, but I think Daizenshuu 7 say that besides Cell, Android 16 is the strongest android. Do you think that only concerns the main continuity or do you think that goes for Android 16 since he's got a character entry in there too? I think it states Cooler is stronger than Frieza in there as well so I guess what I'm asking is if you think the whole movie/main continuity comparison goes both ways or not. 8. Don't know how relevant this is but there is that one "DBZ: Summer Vacation Special" promotional video for the (then, soon-to-be-coming-out) Super Android 13 movie. There's some "movie continuity version" of Goku and Gohan in suits, talking to the audience about all of the DB movies up until that point (in the scene of the city Goku and Trunks left to fight Androids 14 and 15). Do you think has any baring on the scaling or is it just an advertisement and doesn't matter? Sorry for the document. Again, I don't think your scaling is wrong but there are a lot of subjects I haven't heard brought up by other DB scalers. You seem to be among the most thorough considering all the separate continuities you go in detail in and showing some sources even I haven't seen, so I wanted to see what you thought about them. And please keep up the videos. This is the most detailed scaling I've seen of the movie villains yet!
Thank you for the support. I'll make my answer short and simple since I ramble too much. (lol) 1. I'm aware of the singluar and plural. That is why I direct his comments towards the daizenshuu, since even the guidebook concedes that trying to connect the movies not just to the anime but to each other in general also doesn't make sense. The guide also states that Movie 8 has no Cell games, implying Cell is dead, with movie 7 also leading to speculation of the fate of the androids of Goku is shopping. Easter eggs don't count since it's literally an easter egg like in fusion reborn. Hence why it's mostly loose connections and speculation. That's why I made the whole Godzilla, Darth Vader continuity comparison. 2. Koyama's tweet specifically states that the hatchiyack story was a game-original story and not meant to correlate to the movie continuity and fit in its own game continuity. This would only further support my point that the films don't need to connect at all just so films like Super #13 can happen. That Koyama Tweet is in my Cooler video that I already went over and would apply to my #13 video as well. I just didn't need to restate what was already said in a prior video. Plus, Since there are the game version, the ova version, and the Remake OVA, with several minor differences, it once again supports the whole multiversal different continuity claims I'm presenting. 3. Since there are no guides that make such claims, then there is no evidence to support that stance. IF that were the case, then great, I would have no problem debunking myself. That being said, as I already said for point 1, they are easter eggs, just like how a random Dragon Quest Character can cameo in DBZ, any popular character like Mickey Mouse could cameo in DBZ, doesn't mean there has to be a deeper connection. 4. Dragon Ball has long established the concept of multiverse theory. The existence of future trunks and his timelines, Super in General with Zamasu and the time Rings, The existence of GT, Heroes in general which is indeed canon to the Brand of Dragon ball, all the videos games that many acknowledge the infinite multiverse, it's not inconsistent or a contradiction that each film could occur in their own reality. Just like how Marvel or DC comics do with movies, games, comics, tv shows, and so on. 5. yup. you pretty much answered your question. hence why Power scaling doesn't work. You don't scale Goku to Star wars since they are not in the same show, just like how you don't scale GT Goku to evolution Goku. 6. Koyama is sorta biased toward Broly but sad to say, his lore and feats are beyond stupid even when you ignore koyama XD. Just wait for my Broly Scaling Video, you'll realize why I've been hyping him up since my cooler video. He's gonna be the Magnum Opus to this entire Scaling Villain marathon I'm doing. 7. It would likely correlate to the Main continuity only since in the manga, #13 is a failed experiment and scrapped. Since we don't know if #16 exists in Movie 7, we wouldn't know if #13 would be given that title if at all other than being the "ultimate android" within Tenkaichi 2 as a bonus fun fact. 8. I'm aware of the promo. Thats the thing tho. It's just a promo. Plus, IF we were to take it into account that it connects the films together, the problem is that is also connects the original Classic Dragon Ball Movies. With the 3rd completely rewrites the backstory of Goku's training with Korin, mercenary Tao, Chiaotzu being a king, the original dragon ball search not being Pilaf as the main villain in the first film, The first interaction with Launch within Sleeping Devil Princess Castle, and So on. Once again, it would go against all of anime and manga scaling, so at that point, we would have no frame of reference as to how strong Garlic Jr is, Wheelo, kami, The Saiyans, Frieza, and so on, other than assuming events happen even tho early dragon ball era proves that events would likely be different. Ultimately justifying my arguments that it's perfectly fine for each event to be in their own self-contained universe within the multiverse of Dragon ball. I hope I answered your questions to the best of my ability. I normally don't respond but I'm glad this time, I simply wanted to be informative as possible since at the end of the day, I want to show how it CAN make sense even if it does go against what we initially wanted to believe in. You decide what you like to believe, I'm just another fan who simply loves talking about Dragon Ball but I'm grateful for your thoughts on the matter. Hopefully, I'll be able to bring these up as I go through the rest of the remaining movie villains.
@@Numbers2133 YO! Thanks dude. All I wanted to here were your thoughts and you gave them. Didn't think you'd be a rambler too. And the Tenkaichi 2 reference was such a nostalgic call back! Anyways, thanks. Waiting hyped for Jamemba and mostly Broly
$30 Haircut……
(Continue down for QnA)
Q1. I thought Travel Speed doesn’t correlate to Combat Speed?
A: Generally, it doesn’t within fiction. However, in Dragon Ball, the higher you increase your overall battle power or ki, all your stats including combat speed adjusts as well. There are a few exceptions to this in the show but Goku’s able to travel to North Glacier in minutes can correlate to how fast he can fight against #13.
Q2: Why did you overhype #13’s S.S. Deadly Bomber Calc?
A: Since it’s the ONLY best-supposed feat he can perform and I know fans out there might think planet level is too weak, I wanted to show how you can calculate feats differently as opposed to assuming the low-end is the only acceptable choice. You don’t need to agree with the hypothetical highballed scaling, but it was just to inform people of the clear difference in destructive power within Dragon Ball and Fiction in general.
Q3: No DBH scaling for #13???
A: yeah, sadly, there really wasn’t much to go over so apologies if I sounded too direct about it but it’s hard to give him some multiversal-level scaling when he barely has any screen time. Like I said if just his mere presence or association to the brand allows that then all right then, I just didn’t want to pick through straws to assume that’s the case when people might disagree.
Q4: What’s the whole deal with you debunking the anime and movie connection?
A: Long story short, the internet has funny ways to justify their opinions. (lol) I understand that we want to assume that by association, every Goku that exists must be as strong as the anime but that’s not how it works. I’ve already debunked this 3 times in my other videos to prove how convoluted and quite frankly inconsistent to support that claim, so I’m not going to harp on it towards people but because this is how I structure my videos, I need to break it down for any newcomers to my videos and because I basically know most of the counterarguments. But like I said, believe what you want to believe, I’m just an idiot having too much fun making these types of videos. XD
Q5: Wasn't Android 13 stated to have infinite power?
A: Yes, I am aware of that. So OBVIOUSLY, if you go by the meme logic, yes, he is infinite Universal I guess (lol). That being said, The twin androids possess infinite ki due to their generators inside them. Meaning you would think they are undefeatable for having infinite power but CLEARLY, in the series, they get outclassed by stronger characters. The actual answer is that they merely possess infinite stamina and never get tired out but can still get overpowered. Android 13's supposed "infinite power" can mean he has infinite ki and stamina, as opposed to having High Universal Power. Otherwise, his Signature attack should not cap at planet level. Also, This was implied in Meta Cooler's lore as well, so this unironically further supports my claims that future villians scale above past villains BECAUSE Bojack has no such claims and but Meta-Cooler does, meaning Both Meta-Cooler and #13 stalemate but then they should automatically outclass Bojack or Turles, and so on. But yeah, TL:DR, It can simply mean #13 has infinite ki and stamina and doesn't have to correlate to his attack potency.
A minor error I realized before it was too late was that Toei’s statement was released AFTER Wrath of the Dragon, Not Fusion Reborn.
Also, I did not come up with the intro skit. It was inspired by another funny skit that I wanted to replicate since I didn’t know how to start out my video off (lol). The original skit is in the Description.
red ribbon red neck
Well yes it has been like that from the very start of the series the power levels are there to show how powerful an opponent is and since Goku and Vegeta has learned a technique where they no longer need the power level eye thingy they can just sense an opponent power levels on the spot.
Q4: as you acknowledged in your video, Koyama writes the movies with the intention of them following/being in-line with the Anime. Toriyama also flat out says that they’re based on his original work: “In most cases with the movies, the script writers used their marvelous techniques to write up an original story, based on my original work. The original work develops in such a way that it makes it difficult to come up with side-stories, so I think they really did a good job.” Toriyama stating he views them to take place in a different dimension isn’t a ticket to try and weirdly scale them differently.
And with Coola, given Koyama’s statements we can safely assume the Daizenshuu is wrong about its placement. The Z Fighters were still dealing with Dr. Gero in the Anime and First Form Cell was just introduced in the Manga. Not to mention Gohan’s design and lack of Super Saiyan (including the lack of any Super Saiyan Grade above Grade 1). They should just both be Multi-Solar System Level, and 13 dwarfs Meta-Coola through in-universe scaling and Koyama’s statement (which can be applied when not talking Broli).
Even though it's non canon I like the theory that android 13s appearance is based on a hypothetical young gero
Thats a pretty cool theory
That would explain how he was able a girl like Vomi
@@Chill-n2cgirls just fall to their knees when you got a RRA trucker hat
Same
lol is he reverse michael jackson?
Probably in that timeline there is no Goten. RIP Goku's nuts.
you know it was a solid hit because it knocked SS off
Tfs
I think, this movie is the unseen timeline, they disabled 17 and 18 with the remote control and thought it was over. (Cell will never come to into this timeline, and so, no time chamber and a "weaker Trunks.) So, Trunks is probably chilling out, before going back to his own time line to disable the androids in his own timeline, but after that, Cell will end up killing him. Going back in time with Trunks machine to arrive to the timeline we know as the "main."
100 % I always looked at this as the unseen timeline
Dang what you said makes perfect sense this my headcanon now of this movie!🤯
Eh, I doubt it personally and I also doubt the writers had that in mind when making this. Especially as it does not say how 17 & 18 are taken down here. More like this is a what if sort of thing.
@@mercenaryknight5419
Its 100% headcanon and I too think they didnt have that in mind, but its also super cool and definitely makes this movie a lot more interesting(and tragic for this Trunks) so I very much think it *should* be canon
@@mercenaryknight5419the writers also didn’t have the cell games in mind when writing return of cooler (as that movie was made almost a year before the cell games even existed) yet for some reason the daizenshuu thinks return of cooler=10 day gap for the cell games
"Howdy folks I'm Android 13, look at mah trucker hat."
You should AT THE VERY LEAST scale ordinary Android 13 as way above Final Form Frieza. There's no conceivable way that Android 13 isn't at least ~250x star level since that's where Frieza sits at and there's no way Android Saga Super Saiyans wouldn't be able to deal with him. It should be pretty safe to assume that Super 13 movie Dragon Team scales above Final Form Frieza, which means that so should Android 13. The fact that base Android 13's S.S. Deadly Bomber was half-Earth-buster only suggests its destructive potential, not overall strength. No one's suggesting that Frieza's Death Beams, which are his signature moves, could bust large stars but Frieza without a doubt is a Star-tier character. IMO Android 13 may not be able of destroying large stars, but he'd be able to take blows from, injure and defeat Star-tier characters because that's where his stats seem to be
Super 13 ~ Imperfect Cell (post humans absorbed)
Im think super 13 would be around~ semiperfect cell but not stronger
Super 13 is Super Vegeta Level, a bit weaker but not weaker like Semi-Perfect
Let's fucking good, I've been waiting for this video for a long time. Glad I subscribed when I saw your cooler video. Keep up the great work
I personally think that 13’s existence is really cool because it shows the versatility of Gero’s designs. Now imagine the 17/18 Series Engines which are more powerful than the 13/14/15 set with the same Ability of Combination. That combined with the ability to train and get stronger yourself like 17 and 18 do in Super? You could quite easily keep up with or maybe even surpass the Saiyans with that kind of technology…
Except for Gohan apparently
Really? I see a juggernaut blue vegeta
I always thought 13 was the replacement for cell in that universe
i always like 13/super 13. I called him the broly android
Waiting for that inevitable Z Broly video.
You are awesome and i like how you also include a composite versions of the characters from even the most obscure video games ! Now im waiting for Janemba and especially Hirudegarn videos :)
Do you plan to go over content from the BoG and RoF movies?
- ignoring the scaling from the alter/new adapted DBS.
It would be cool to see the power depths from the original films.
The inevitable OG Broly videos is probably going to be an 1 hour💀. Anyways pretty good video while I'm not really a power-scalar these are very fun watches.
😉
@@Numbers2133 also quick question are you going to do a video on all movie characters? I would really like to see one on Turles , slug and Janemba.
@@Sonicmid Yes. I'm doing a Movie Villain scaling marathon. So the real question is: Who's Next? look forward to them.
Hope you don’t get too many “When are you gonna do Broly?” comments. TeamFourStar went through plenty of those.
I think base 13 scales to Black Frieza because I said so.
Thanks for the heart, Numbers. Looking forward to your next work.
1. Android 13 (DBZ): solar system level
2. Super 13: multi solar system level
3. Super 13 (evil factor): low multiversal level
Universal at Universal in base
I’m going to use your logic for a second…. If Beerus and Goku almost destroy the fabric of the universe with a shockwaves of their punches. That must mean that every human on the planet can overscale to that level since they survived it and were the closest than anyone to Beerus and Goku , even though the average human only has a power level of 5.
0:06 wow that reminds me of dashiexp back in the day,good times
Great video!
I always liked the concept of Android 13 I always liked to think that he was Geros prototype to Cell.
for the movie anime contradiction, every one of them say their trying to make it as close to the original as possible
yes, the movies have their own scaling, but in movies like cooler's revenge or bojack, the anime version of events is implied to have happened
things are still different (cooler says goku killed freeza, goku doesn't have instant transmission) but the freeza fight is still implied to have happened the same way
Hell yeah!!!!
First video I subscribed 💪🏼👏🏽
I’m glad you mentioned Godzilla when talking about continuity.
Godzilla 1954 is canon with pretty much every Godzilla continuity with few exceptions (like Monsterverse, Netflix anime… other Netflix anime, 1998…).
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, despite the 1954 movie being canonical with all the Showa and Heisei movies the showa and heisei continuities aren’t canonical with each other.
Thanks for telling me how to blow up the planet because I was always wondering how I can do that
"I'm Android 13. Look at my trucker hat!"
The chad is backkk W fr
Well personality! I state him as
1. Android 13 (DBZ): multi star level
2. Super 13 (DBZ): multi large star level
3. King of destruction super 13 (SDBH): multi large star level
4. Dark factor super 13 (UGM): low multiversal
I get!? 🤷
Get help
@@Thatguyrc2dj nope, I dying
@@MB15046 alright 👍
13 gets an automatic power boost when he loses his trucker hat
I Personally Believe - And My Logic Is -- Because Of Just How Easily Super 13 Ran Through The Z Fighters, Plus His Spirit Bomb Super Saiyan Goku Death - Well Z Broly Ran Through The Z Fighters And Kid Buu Death To A Spirit Bomb Super Saiyan Goku --- He Should Be Between Broly & Kid Buu Level Threat , He Just Never Got The Opportunity To Stretch His Legs Out ..
yo six or seth collab??? you need to get those numbers up Numbers
nah those 2 are lames especially seth
Oh boy... a lot of people consider the movies 'non-canon' because people love the word so much, they cannot even spell it correctly
I still can't get my head over the 'my move can destroy half a planet' when by now Frieza in 1st form can destroy a planet with greatest of ease. It feels like by movie scaling, the characters would be far weaker than Namek Saga characters as even Vegeta could pulverize a planet with his Galick Gun.
How come that Super 13 is not in Xenoverse yet?
15:51 made my day 😆
according to Movie 7 manga book The Z fighters had infinite power so super android 13 also have infinite power at least as highball
Right. I edited that to the qna comment I pinned. it can simply mean he has access to infinite ki and stamina since power is often associated to the android's ki. The same thing was mentioned to Meta-Cooler and yet we see how they androids can still lose in the show like Trunks vs the future androids or Semi-Cell Vs #18 and stuff. But like what I also said at the end of the video, who am I to tell you what to think. I 100% agree he has infinite power. It would only further prove he would smack Broly in one-hit. Andrew 13 cannot be beaten XD. Thanks for bringing it up since I only discovered that statement after completing the video.
18 literally became Goku's sister in law
I'd put him on par with (repressed) Semi-Perfect Cell.
Do you believe Lord Slug is Building Level and Super Slug in City Level in terms of his feats alone?
Using DC feats alone namek frieza>>>dabura,mystic gohan,gotenks and the androids ETC lmao
@@extremelegendsupreme4596 I think you are right. In the Anime(Toei) version, he shows a Galaxy destroying feat which was shown after the Frieza Saga and begining of Cell
Can ANYONE confirm for me if "$30 Haircut" an insult because of it's cheapness or expense? This has bugged me for a long time. Back when I HAD hair, I was used to spending about $15-20 for a simple haircut, but then I worked at a salon, where people regularly spent nearly $200 on cut and colours ect. The inflection in his voice makes me THINK it's insulting him for being cheap. But $30 for a male haircut still seems like a lot to me.
I saw the Dr. Wheelo video. Did Toei just obliterate it immediately after being uploaded because of copyright?
yeah. it got copyrighted for 15 seconds of material despite deeming the other full minute as acceptable. don't worry. Re-uploading it and removing the problem, hopefully passing the system.
Now where is my Trucker Hat
Well piccolo from the meta cooler movie was already kamiccolo... What about this piccolo? If this piccolo wasn't that means cooler would outclass a13...
That is an extemely reaching definition of "destroy." Breaking real good versus dissolving the entirety of the matter down into heat energy noise is not quite the same thing.
I'm guessing android 13 would probably be around 16-17-18 in his base and 2nd form cell in his power up
RIP in pizza Goku's Gotens
They should have made 13 canon, instead of this stupid cell max idea.
Cell max was trash, if you want cell again, bring back cell
@@Casual_guy1234 im with you on that notion
@@wesleyneilsen7671 movie idea, perfections return.
That's all I got so far
@@Casual_guy1234 i think thats a good title for it
Should have said rip son goku balls or something would have made it a thousand times more funnier.
SUPER ANDRIOD 13 IS AROUND THE SAME LEVEL AS IMPERFECT CELL AND ANDRIOD 16 !
Cell form 2
Dont Yk Thst First Form Freiza Can Blow Up A Planet So Obviously 13 Can
I would place him at the level of android 16
0:12
Don’t you mean Rip Goten?
Anybody with a power level over 1 mil is universal
Okay, quick question: im tryna find the DBZ movie dubs, but im finding it UNREASONABLY hard to do so. I know that they exist, but streaming services only carry the subs. Does anyone know where the dub is?
He was strong enough to neuter Goku.
Erase gotten 😂
In reality in the Xenoverse fight is 3 androids vs 1, so most likely 13 Alone in Supervillain Mode is not as Strong as perfect Cell
He punched goku in the d and washed vegeta and trunks who in their ss form 😂😂😂
I think movie android 13 is strong something c16 mayby Semi Perfect Cell. Thats why Z warriors culdnt do anything to him
Roshi could destroy the planet, this is all that power scaling bullshit that doesn’t make sense. That blast that he is claiming to destroy half the Earth would actually instantly vaporize it. And where are these translations in the original Japanese dub or English? Cause English likes to fuck stuff
Turles video please
Power scaling in dragon ball is rediculous.
So is goku´s plot armor
Who cares power lvl doesnt matter they just get stronger as time goes by for example master roshi in super can beat ssj vegito buu saga smh
SSJ2 Gohan Could One Shot Super Android 13.
I wonder how exactly strong compare to cell at all forms cause i'm lost to his limit.
It´s not canon altho the android numbering ads up with canon 🤔🤨
Strong enough to beat namek frieza imo.
Someone doesn’t pay attention when they watch shows. You say that nobody would be shopping or anything because androids are searching for Goku and destroying the planet, you’ll see people shopping while they’re destroying the planet in the show AND the future trunks movie, also like 80% of your logic is flawed as hell. Also Akira was the worst writing things in the proper continuity. Constantly forgot that characters even existed. And he also forgot that his movies weren’t canon which was done said in an interview then the comment about them being in their own reality was implied. If you’re gonna bullshit it then it’s not canon I’m sorry. Because if you want to apply that logic, then you’re admitting GT was Cannon as well, which is how you’ll instantly lose your fan base.
Dang bro you cooked this dude and this man really said a Frieza level threat is only planetary💀
Android 15 was the best
How u feel about your daddy Seth?
What happens to the dr wheelo video
ANDROID 13 IS MY MAIN CHARACTER IN DBZ BT3
if this androids where made to protect earth. frieza will die
It’s cool to do dragon ball content. But please stop with the headcannon. It’s never said in any source material that gero had any involvement in major metallitron or Android 8. ANDROID 8 is credited in the MANGA as being created by a complete different doctor, which makes sense as Gero wasnt even conceptualized until many years later. That was a blatant headcannon lie. Please stick to Facts. There’s enough misinformation in the community as it is
Check again. Toriyama, the creator himself states that he was the one who created all of RRA's weapons as he was one of the founding members. Dr.Flappe was an anime exclusive character who was stated as the creator but was never part of the original manga story. Daizenshuu 7 clarifies that they were collegues and both worked on android 8 and previous artificial humans. Thats also why I inserted that manga panel cover that clearly displays the timeline of each android created under the hands of Dr.gero himself. Hence why i said "technically, android 13 is canon in the original story" so no, I was not using headcanon. Obviously, you can say Toriyama retconned the backstory or lore of Eighter but otherwise, I was using factual sources by the story and creator himself. So don't act like I was intentionally spreading misinformation. If I notice a mistake in my video, I will naturally call out my video errors. If it's a grey-area topic thats meant to be speculated, I'll naturally say "its up to you guys to decide" since I merely lay out what we do know and then move on.
Toriyama Interview source:
www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-artificial-humans-cell-arc-01/
@@Numbers2133 it’s fine to try to use a technicality as well. Of course we know there are canon androids 13-15 we have no way to be able to say they were the same androids as displayed in the MOVIE timeline. They were all stated to have been defective. To draw any other conclusion would constitute as headcannon as they aren’t confirmed by any visual other than their number. You directly credited Dr gero as a creator of major metallitron when this is never stated. Even using the daizenshuu is faulty as we know the information presented can directly contradict itself. I give daizenshuu 2 and 3 as examples. Daizenshuu 2 states that ultimate Gohan can use the ssj form while in the ultimate state, however daizenshuu 3 DIRECTLY contradicts this saying that he cannot. It was misleading in the sense that it’s not factual or confirmed that gero designed major metallitron. He isn’t even categorized as an android in any of the sources I’ve seen depicting geros creations. Once again toriyama didn’t conceptualize gero until we’ll after the original run of Dragon ball had ended so either were accepting the blanket “retcon” of gero (who is never mentioned in the entirety of dragon ball until Z) creating all of the red ribbons armaments and androids. By that flow of headcannon I would be on the right path in assuming that gero created the modifications for Cyborg Tao Pai Pai, even though this is never stated or explained.
@@wavelordcelliano1746 Yes, I know, i said "TECHNICALLY" because MANGA WISE, android 13 existed. I wasn't trying to imply the EXACT ONE TO ONE SAME android 13 as in the movie. Cuz we literally know nothing about android 13 from the original story. In my video, I brought it up as a little fun fact, not whether there as some other implication about it. I hope you did read that Toriyama Q&A because he clearly states Gero created ALL weapons for RRA. Major Metallitron IS a weapon. I didn't even labeled Major as an android, just that Gero was his creator, nothing more. He is a robot after all so regardless of him being categorized as an android or not is relevant, just that Gero created him. Again, I was simply establishing the overall build up to Android 13's creation and lore. Lastly, just because two sources contradict each other doesn't mean we cannot use either of them. Toriyama has said prior, the daizenshuu would have made his story better if he had them at the time, meaning he does support their usage. Just because one source is valid, doesn't mean every other source is valid by default. Likewise, just cuz one source is wrong, doesn't mean all sources are wrong. That is why its a case by case situation. if the source is wrong, then great, ignore it, move on. if one source doesn't contradict the story, great, its valid. Hence why its called preponderance of evidence. if the vast majority of lore, statements, guides, etc, leans on Gero being the creator of these robots, then there is no contradiction or inconsistency or outlier. So yes, you can simply label it as a retcon since Gero wasn't written until Z era. There is nothing wrong with that. You can say thats bad writing, thats fine, i don't care. But that is its own topic at that point. I'm not arguing about the quality of the lore writing, just stating what the lore even is to setup my main topic of my video. That all my intention for my intro was that Gero was part of RRA, wants revenge against Goku, has knowledge on creating androids, leading to Android 13's creation for the movie.
Liked the video. I got some long questions about movie continuity. Not exactly a debunk or anything but more about if a sort of "continuity interpretation could be valid" sort of thing. I personally think you're scaling makes sense and I pretty much agree with your movie scaling (and the others since I don't know about the games too much).
1. In that scan earlier on it comes off more like Toriyama is saying that he sees the movies as "stories" (plural) that take place in another dimension (singular), which would imply that they all coincide with the same dimension. Kind of like "people from another country." Sure they all could be from different countries but until further context is given, we'd assume it'd be the former, right?
2. And doesn't Toriyama kind of defer to Koyama who, in that one tweet in the hatchiyack video, said something like Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans doesn't fit in the "timeline of the Z movie" or something like that. (I think the google translate screwed it up and when it should've been "Z movie timeline" or "timeline of the Z movies" or something like that.) Doesn't that imply that the movies could all be linked together if there's a continuity Hatchiyack specifically doesn't fit in. Especially if one is featured in the OVA similar to Fusion Reborn. This unlike GT where Cooler only appears as an Easter egg image but never an actual plot device like the other villains the characters killed again.
3. And if there were guides that said things about certain characters being revived and killed again by Gohan, Goten and Trunks in Fusion Reborn, regardless of them being in the movie or not, would it not count because the audience didn't see it or would they still be considered present in terms of the plot and just not the audience. And if the former would it be a contradiction/outlier or have any bit of consistency with anything else.
4. Depending on the answers (to the last 2) Daizenshuu 6's "another dimension" statements could be interpreted as the same and not different dimensions. Especially if Dazenshuu 6 seemingly "speculates" movie timeline placement as opposed to makes "hard statements" kind of like how The Manga of Legend series states that "based on his precautions against Dabura, Kaioshin might be as strong as Cell Games Goku." Statements like those come off as something that can be disagreed with. Especially if the guide misses something as opposed to a straight "Cell can destroy a solar system."
5. And would the nature of the movies contradicting the main canon's continuity contradict the notion that the movies could be one "timeline" regardless of that? Especially considering the movies weren't exactly made to fit in with that? (Sorry if I worded that in a confusing way.)
6. I think I also saw this towards the end of Chuck's recent movie scaling video a while ago, but didn't Koyama say that he might've been biased to Broly being the strongest or something?
7. This is specific for Android 13, but I think Daizenshuu 7 say that besides Cell, Android 16 is the strongest android. Do you think that only concerns the main continuity or do you think that goes for Android 16 since he's got a character entry in there too? I think it states Cooler is stronger than Frieza in there as well so I guess what I'm asking is if you think the whole movie/main continuity comparison goes both ways or not.
8. Don't know how relevant this is but there is that one "DBZ: Summer Vacation Special" promotional video for the (then, soon-to-be-coming-out) Super Android 13 movie. There's some "movie continuity version" of Goku and Gohan in suits, talking to the audience about all of the DB movies up until that point (in the scene of the city Goku and Trunks left to fight Androids 14 and 15). Do you think has any baring on the scaling or is it just an advertisement and doesn't matter?
Sorry for the document. Again, I don't think your scaling is wrong but there are a lot of subjects I haven't heard brought up by other DB scalers. You seem to be among the most thorough considering all the separate continuities you go in detail in and showing some sources even I haven't seen, so I wanted to see what you thought about them. And please keep up the videos. This is the most detailed scaling I've seen of the movie villains yet!
Thank you for the support. I'll make my answer short and simple since I ramble too much. (lol)
1. I'm aware of the singluar and plural. That is why I direct his comments towards the daizenshuu, since even the guidebook concedes that trying to connect the movies not just to the anime but to each other in general also doesn't make sense. The guide also states that Movie 8 has no Cell games, implying Cell is dead, with movie 7 also leading to speculation of the fate of the androids of Goku is shopping. Easter eggs don't count since it's literally an easter egg like in fusion reborn. Hence why it's mostly loose connections and speculation. That's why I made the whole Godzilla, Darth Vader continuity comparison.
2. Koyama's tweet specifically states that the hatchiyack story was a game-original story and not meant to correlate to the movie continuity and fit in its own game continuity. This would only further support my point that the films don't need to connect at all just so films like Super #13 can happen. That Koyama Tweet is in my Cooler video that I already went over and would apply to my #13 video as well. I just didn't need to restate what was already said in a prior video. Plus, Since there are the game version, the ova version, and the Remake OVA, with several minor differences, it once again supports the whole multiversal different continuity claims I'm presenting.
3. Since there are no guides that make such claims, then there is no evidence to support that stance. IF that were the case, then great, I would have no problem debunking myself. That being said, as I already said for point 1, they are easter eggs, just like how a random Dragon Quest Character can cameo in DBZ, any popular character like Mickey Mouse could cameo in DBZ, doesn't mean there has to be a deeper connection.
4. Dragon Ball has long established the concept of multiverse theory. The existence of future trunks and his timelines, Super in General with Zamasu and the time Rings, The existence of GT, Heroes in general which is indeed canon to the Brand of Dragon ball, all the videos games that many acknowledge the infinite multiverse, it's not inconsistent or a contradiction that each film could occur in their own reality. Just like how Marvel or DC comics do with movies, games, comics, tv shows, and so on.
5. yup. you pretty much answered your question. hence why Power scaling doesn't work. You don't scale Goku to Star wars since they are not in the same show, just like how you don't scale GT Goku to evolution Goku.
6. Koyama is sorta biased toward Broly but sad to say, his lore and feats are beyond stupid even when you ignore koyama XD. Just wait for my Broly Scaling Video, you'll realize why I've been hyping him up since my cooler video. He's gonna be the Magnum Opus to this entire Scaling Villain marathon I'm doing.
7. It would likely correlate to the Main continuity only since in the manga, #13 is a failed experiment and scrapped. Since we don't know if #16 exists in Movie 7, we wouldn't know if #13 would be given that title if at all other than being the "ultimate android" within Tenkaichi 2 as a bonus fun fact.
8. I'm aware of the promo. Thats the thing tho. It's just a promo. Plus, IF we were to take it into account that it connects the films together, the problem is that is also connects the original Classic Dragon Ball Movies. With the 3rd completely rewrites the backstory of Goku's training with Korin, mercenary Tao, Chiaotzu being a king, the original dragon ball search not being Pilaf as the main villain in the first film, The first interaction with Launch within Sleeping Devil Princess Castle, and So on. Once again, it would go against all of anime and manga scaling, so at that point, we would have no frame of reference as to how strong Garlic Jr is, Wheelo, kami, The Saiyans, Frieza, and so on, other than assuming events happen even tho early dragon ball era proves that events would likely be different. Ultimately justifying my arguments that it's perfectly fine for each event to be in their own self-contained universe within the multiverse of Dragon ball.
I hope I answered your questions to the best of my ability. I normally don't respond but I'm glad this time, I simply wanted to be informative as possible since at the end of the day, I want to show how it CAN make sense even if it does go against what we initially wanted to believe in. You decide what you like to believe, I'm just another fan who simply loves talking about Dragon Ball but I'm grateful for your thoughts on the matter. Hopefully, I'll be able to bring these up as I go through the rest of the remaining movie villains.
@@Numbers2133 YO! Thanks dude. All I wanted to here were your thoughts and you gave them. Didn't think you'd be a rambler too. And the Tenkaichi 2 reference was such a nostalgic call back! Anyways, thanks. Waiting hyped for Jamemba and mostly Broly
And hatchiyack is connected because in that movie Goku says he is as strong as Broly maybe stronger