Why does my seconds hand stop? Watch and Learn #73
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2020
- Today we're going to check out what causes "seconds hand hesitation" that is prevalent in some Miyota movements; you might also be surprised to learn many high end Swiss watches share the same drivetrain!
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I hate this movement with a passion, putting the bridge back on is a pain in the ass (for me anyway)
I generally don't pin comments, but this one I did. This is the most under-rated comment, spoken by someone who tinkers! The movement is sitting under a dust cover on my bench, dreading the time when I have a few minutes to scream and curse at it while getting all the parts to align.
Dude, I am totally with you on that! I have a $20 Chinese clone that is now a bag of parts for this very reason. A very unfortunate attempt on my part to tackle my first sub 6497 sized movement after a keyless works mess I created.
I do have to say that the Chinese knockoff has (had!) both a hacking function as well as a QUIET autowinder, so I may opt for the DG2813 movement in future compatible projects. But I was surprised/disappointed to discover that the 9xxx series Miyota has the same second hand stutter. And I am sure I not planning on disassembling a nice $100 movement for grins... maybe a ST2130 instead.
Thank you for the explanation of the purpose and design behind this bug/feature. With the 9xxx series being a newer designed movement, I wonder if there are additional reasons for allowing the indirect drive and backlash.
When you said indirect drive at the start, I recalled shopping for belt driven vs direct driven turntables when I was 15 and MOSFET was hip.
I have one sitting somewhere waiting to be assembled and I'm trying to forget about it but it keeps bugging me
if you want to practice on this particular moment look for Citizen 8200a it's really cheap and basically the same as far as I know
Hey Marc, I have a few Miyota in a watch and have timed it. It's -3 sec / day which isn't too bad. Initially I was pretty freaked out and had to do a ton of research a year or so ago. Luckily you've got these great videos around for people to learn about their watches. You're really a great resource for the community.
super informative as always. Marc you continually knock it out of the park! Great Job!
I have learned more about watches from you Mark than any other TH-camr. You have the ability to explain things to me. the layman. that makes the concept clear and concise. In your next life you would make a excellent Teacher.
Thanks so much!
Thank you for taking the time to make these educational videos
It works like a charm. I slapped my watch and literally started to work. Thank you!
Brilliant, Love your watch & learn posts. Thanks Mark 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks for the video. Yup, direct driven seconds hand makes more sense. What's impressive about Seiko is that even the minute hand is directly driven. Very few Swiss movements, to my knowledge, have this feature. Minute hand stutter is not noticeable but it's impressive how efficient & elegant Seiko's architecture is for its price.
Loved it including the boink boink sound effects. Thanks Marc . We learn something new every day.
LOL, Boink!
Fabulous lesson.
The Omega 1022 movement in my Seamaster Cosmic 2000 has the same issue. When I took it to my watchmaker, years ago, he told me exactly what you said.
My Seagull M182SK skeleton watch does this. It bugged me a lot when I first bought it, and now I know why it does it, thank you. This is one of your best videos.
Wow, thank you!
Always a good learning experience with Mark. Very nice.
Thanks Stephen.
Have seen warnings about bumping or dropping a watch so this comes as no surprise to me. Thank you.
Thanks Mark, it’s always good to see someone that knows watches not only from the outside but actually knows the internal workings and you just gave your viewers a small lesson and I for one appreciate that, good demonstration....
Thank you!
Thanks, Marc!
This video is very informative and helpful.
Thank you.
You lost me with the "boink boink" and the "herky jerky" 😂 I always enjoy these Watch and Learns. The heads up about re attaching the bridge is priceless!
Thanks Mark for that clarification on stutter, enjoying your content and learning more about movements as I go down the rabbit hole of horology.
From one Islander to another thanks.
My invicta is doing that and i was worried. Thank you so much for sharing this video.
Fascinating! Great explanation. It's been too long since your last watch & learn so it's great to see it back!
Glad to have it again.
Just got yersterday a Vostok Amphibia 2416b and it's doing the same thing, at first I thought it was broken.
Great video as always !
I've learned lots from your Watch and Learn videos, and this was another interesting lesson. Thanks, and keep up the good work.
Thanks so much
Excellent video, Mark.
Interesting point about how the indirect drive is an adaptation of the offset seconds pocket watch movement. 👍🏻
Makes sense, right?
Which is tougher in a mechanical watch? Direct or indirect drive?
Love the watch and learn. Thanks Marc!
Welcome!
I had been aware of this phenomenon. Thanks for the excellent discussion.
You are welcome!
i love your tutorials Marc and love trying them out....i used my dads Rolex for this one and sure enough after giving it a large tap on the side the second hand hesitated for a moment before it went,with the rest of the watch, careering into the wall...i've not found all the parts yet but my dad says he wants a word with you.
Whoops!
great review! a lot of these movements are indeed very inexpensive as well, and in my opinion don't justify much of an increase in price over a quality quartz movement (which might be actually more expensive). for this reason, i don't own just quartz or just automatics....
Thank Marc! I really learn a lot from your videos.
Glad to hear it.
Hello to France. My Vostok are the second hand stop when I shocking the whatch. I beleive first he Is broken. But i learn with your video. Thank's you so much.
Excellent video. My Russian Sturmanski watch does this sometimes. I thought it was me. I've been told I have a face that can stop a clock but thanks to this video I have renewed confidence.
Hello to France. I got a Vostok and i have the same problem. But if think IS it normal. This vidéo make me most confian. God bless you.
Yeah, my Vostok Radio Room is doing it and it's been concerning me 😅
I thought my Seiko diver 4205 is has a defect when I shake too much my diver watch the second hand was stuttering by a 2 or 1 second. Now I know that was a normal part of engineering design and I was amazed when you explained it clearly thank you Mark for this video now I was lightened and confident to wear my watch.
Great explanation Mark. Thanks.
Welcome!
That was very interesting, I had never thought about a center second hand and an offset second hand.
Thank you for watching
I was born in Long Island. Going back to visit in April for a wedding and Stopping in your shop is on my list! See you in April
One of my 1970ish Omega Automatics has a second hand that flips back and forth around 2 seconds or so, just by changing positions (gravity effect). Thanks for the explanation!
Yup, that's it!
Thanks for the explanation Marc. It is interesting to know bit more about the watches we wear. Keep up the good work mate 😊👍🏼
Thanks!
I woke up on the urban gentry video and guess who is the guest --- hi this is mark
Perfect timing!
Yeah, same here. I thought I was hallucinating from the effects of the coronavirus.
Looking to schedule it ... his 20 minute videos are a serious time investment for me tho.
God bless this man on this chanel. Thé best to learn on watch.
thank you.
Very interesting! Thanks, Marc!
Thanks for watching.
What a clear explanation!
Glad to hear it!
Great explanation! Thanks.
Welcome!
You and your family stay well, Marc.
We will! Same to yours.
Really love watch and learn thank you
Thanks! Happy to do it.
Boink, Boink, Boink, so technical, LOL.
I have a citizen dive style that does this, after some searching I found out it's a normal thing. I noticed it while shaking to wind it, even though it hand winds as well. If you move it too vigorously the second hand stutters.
Always enjoy the watch and learn vids.
Boink! : - )
...when you said you were filming through a loupe with your phone, you gained
a whole new level of respect...brilliant ! loved the vid...fave part, leaf-spring.."boink, boink, boink..."...why though is the "dumb" underside of sec hand not driven directly by that first large wheel off-of the escapement ? why a second large drive wheel...doesn't that add to ineffiecentcy ?
Very good video. I had never heard of this issue before. Thanks for sharing and cheers.
You are welcome.
Thanks Marc very usefull info l just realised 2 of my vostok scubaduds are doing same thing l guess they have the same issue
Great video, I have a watch from kickstarter with such Miyota movement, it stutters all the time and is very annoying. At least I understand it better now and don't have to open it :) Thanks Marc!
Now you know!
Informative,per usual.Thanks
Thank you
Great Video mark !! Thanks .....
Welcome!
Fascinating thank you.
You are welcome!
wow amazing
Thanks Marc, I learned something new today. :-)
Great, love to hear it.
Excellent video as always.
: 0
Very revealing, indeed. Good that I watched this, in fact I have got a fairly new watch whith a Miyota 8215 and I was wondering if this is normal. But mine does this somethime even when I'm not knocking the watch.
Omg dude... I was 10 sec away to return the watch, but thank god for youtube and thank you for this video
Very interesting -- thanks!
Thank you!
Great one Mark, Thanks for the informative video. I think we will need more informative and entertaining videos like this in the next weeks :D
I bet.
Thanks Marc for this very interesting vid! I own a Timex Navi XL Automatic which features the Myiota 8215, I have seen the same thing happening to the seconds hand in my watch (although my watch only once got such a hit).
Thanks for checking it out
That Marlin is gorgeous.Great vid again Marc.
Thanks!
Thx .after change battery works right way .the old battery was weak
For your next watch and learn, you can show how to size a bracelet, where would be the best micro adjustment point before removing or adding links.
and fix for stutters ? i have same issues thanks for the video
Fascinating,I'm new to horology,I haven't even read a book on the subject.Enjoyed that vid.👍
Great to hear!
Im from Portugal love your videos ! My Seiko marinemaster 8L35 delay 4/5 minutes at night i go to bed ...tanks. ( o meu inglês...
Thanks Marc, one of my myota movements sticks and stops at 20 secs everytime. Give it a shake and it starts again until it reaches 20 and stops again. I also have a Hamiltion Khaki Pilot that did the same thing, at 20secs it stops. What could be causing this, any ideas?
Thanks! New subscriber...enjoy you on the Gentry too,
My second hand doesn't pause...it stops completely after 1hr.
Still keeps times but I push setting button to start it again.
Any suggestion? Not exactly a collector but, I'm learning.
My car CD player does the same thing when I go over a pothole.
Really? Did not know Timex & Miyota make car CD players? :)
LOL. I remember those days.
What's a CD player?
@@b.vonschnauser207 Ha ha, good joke.
Thanks Marc. Wasn't aware of that phenomena before. Just tried it with my current watch on wrist (Tisell 9015EX) that has a Miyota 90S5 movement, and I couldn't get it to stutter, so this movement is probably immune to it.
i think it's the 8000 series that are designed this way...
It's only the 8XXX movements (and 821a)
Laz, I just tried this on my Vaer Automatic, which has the Miyota 9015 movement. Same experience as you had. I have wondered about the differences between the entry level Miyota 8,000 series movements and their higher range movements, besides the higher beat rate. I infer from this video that the 8,000 series is an older design; at least in it's conception.
This video helps to explain why the maritime wristwatches had a separate seconds dial, typically at 6 o'clock; as is reflected in the Stowa maritime today, and was also carried into field watches in Europe c. WW2, such as the dirty dozen.
Finally........ Marc.... has come back .... to watch and learn !!!
I never left, just took a hiatus.
Long Island Watch actually this was a nod to “the Rock” from WWF since you say “back” in your first sentence....it’s all in my covid-19 head
Can a watch containing the 821a caliber be upgraded to a different Miyota movement that doesn’t stutter?
Hello Mark.
I belive the point of these videos are to teach and I did learn something from it,, again.
My Vostok Kommenderski does that from time to time.
I have not noticed it on the SNK805 yet.
Your SNK won't do it.
My seconds hand seem to stutter and get struck at the 45 and 50 minute mark. When I shake it. It seems to move again. Do you think if can be fixed ? If so how much should I be paying a watch repairer? Your help would be much appreciated.
So is this effect fixable? I'm fixing a watch that delays a few minutes by day when you wear it, really annoying. Thanks for showing this issue.
I've loved watches since I was age 2...
I don't work on them and whenever someone accesses the back of a mechanical watch - I hold my breath. So, it is nice to see someone explain the mechanical watch movement to me in a video.
Thank you!!
tried on my only not quartz watch, a irony sistem 51, it's not happen ;)
Was great seeing you on the last urban gentry video, you and him are my two favorites channel.
PS I forgot Watchfinder & Co. ;)
Thank you
Really like the Super Duper Zoom mode :-)
Lol. That's a trademark.
This movement should be outlawed in this day and age altogether. I recently bought an 8215-powered watch from Alixpress and noticed that the seconds hand also jumps more than 10 seconds sometimes if I wave my arms vigorously, so the shock does affect accuracy. Had I known about the stutter and the issue I described I would not have bought it. Never experienced any of this with my NH3x and Miyota 9 series-powered watches.
Nice 👍🏽
Thank you!
Can this happen if I swing my around around too quickly? I recently bough a Seiko 5 SRPD65K2 that does this. Ran beautifully for a few weeks but now I notice the hesitation. I also notice that when I set the time the watch second hand will stop or that if I set it down for a few hours the watch is still running when I get back to it but it's now way behind like it had stopped. This normal for this watch?
Can you adjust a Seiko VK63?
I used to have a Milgauss homage, it did the stutter thing without being knocked, I soon got sick of the watch and sold it.
Thanks Marc! And speaking of backlash, I've never been able to find anything authoritative on whether its best to make the final setting of the time by moving forward or backward. Do you know? (I hope that makes sense)
I'd go forward. ;)
I have a vintage Russian raketa. The second hand on mine when it lays flat moves fine but when I pick it up the second hand just flops down like there's no power to it. The hour and minutes work but not the seconds hand
Great video! Hey Mark, was that knock enough to cause any issues with the movement due to shock? If not, around how strong of a knock or shock would it be to cause any concerns? I recently knocked my Seiko Turtle against a door frame while rushing to work.
Nah. While it was a knock, it was into my soft hand. A door, on the other hand . . .
@@islandwatch oh nooo. Thanks!
Thanks for the information Marc. Why don’t they size the gears so they mesh properly? Wouldn’t that eliminate the problem? 👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸
It's all in the geometry. It is designed like this so they don't get jammed up. There are many tolerances working, so a loose fit guarantees it will work.
Any gears that mesh with out any possible backlash have increased friction requiring higher forces to move and increased wear, and in some cases gears meshed too tightly will bind up.
Very cool video. Thanks! I have a question regarding the timekeeping of the watch. Let's say that the watch receives 120 bumps/day that make the seconds hand stop for 1 sec/each. Wouldn't the watch show now for ex: 11:58 vs 12:00. Or another theory is that no matter how many bumps the watch receives it only affects the seconds hand which can vary between 0-60 seconds depending on the number of a stops. According to this theory the watch shouldn't loose time and the hour and minute hands are not affected and always show correct time. I don't think that the watch is designed to compensate for a "lost" second by doing a double beat (kind of like a chronograph that jumps tot the correct second after it was paused).
I guess what I didn't say is that while it affects the seconds hand motion, it doesn't affect the minute hand.
The second hand moves forward when bumped then stops and "waits" for the rest of the watch to catch up. It has to do with the backlash of the gear train. The spring he mentions is meant to prevent this, but a good enough jolt will overcome the friction of the spring.
I assume if they made it so both sets of teeth fit better together it would break under a knock? Good job on the zoom in Mark. Top marks.
Yes, but because of the size differential of the gears, this really isn't possible.
I have a flightmaster and the second hand just stops ticking after about 12 hours at the 12 oclock mark, this has to be normal right? Any idea why tho?
Does anyone know what the second counter hand goes back and fowards? Like it moves fowards once and then it moves backwards once and repeats
Interesting topic. Thanks for sharing and educating. I've never experienced that with any of my automatics. 🤔
Gonna have to smack 'em around now to see if any will hiccup.😉
LOL. Just take them out back and beat them up a bit.
Isn't it the same with the Claro 888?
My Seiko has a 4R36 movement and the second hand stops so frequently. It's so bad to the point where I will loose 5 - 6 hrs. per day. It's absolutely unusable. I don't think the issue is anywhere near what you're talking about either. Unfortunately, I don't even have warranty.
so practically, if i understand correctly, when you bump the watch, the seconds hand jumps forward in time (on the dial) just as much as that "looseness" between those gears allows and then stays put until the timekeeping (gears) catch up to where it is. if this is not the case (the hand does not jump forward when bumped) then, regardless of the balance wheel not stopping counting time, the watch does lose the time the seconds hand was stationary since it's the hands that show the time passed and not the balance wheel. if some counts are lost between the balance wheel and the seconds hand then the watch loses that time. it only makes sense (to me) that the time the seconds hand is stationary was already registered by the seconds hand on the dial and it has to wait until the actual time counted catches up, that way the watch does not lose time....
You are correct.
alexandru lup Thank you. This was confusing me as well.
My vintage mvmt seconds hand is stuttering and the battery has to be put in a weird way for it to tick normally, I want to fix it some how
HELLO MARC JUST WATCHED YOU ON THE URBAN GENTRY..GUESS YOU WENT TO PHILA?? HAVING LIVED IN LI AND RAISED IN PHILA AND NOW IN FLA IT WAS NICE TO SEE YOU IN MY OLD CITY..TKS RON AND VERO
Thanks Ron!
My sweeping hands stop work do u know why.
Mine has completely stuck an has stopped the other hands moving with it.