Hi Jim, nice job of showing different tubes that can be used in the gain section of the Freya+ Pre-amp. I recently bought the Freya+ and have done some tube rolling so your timing of this video is really good. One tube that sounds sweet to my ears is CBS Hytron 6sn7GT did add a wider sound stage, clear base and focused mid range to my listening experience. Please keep the videos coming! Thank-you.
Yes the Hytron is a very nice tube and I try and keep as many in stock as I can. I always have more tubes to bring out for show and tell than I have space or time for! Thanks for letting everyone know!
In regard to the socket saver I have tried four of them into the Freya pre-amp with limited success. While rolling tubes two of the socket savers the middle plastic slot broke off. If you do find a good quality socket saver please let me know, I will purchase them immediately. Thanks
Wow... What a great topic! Thanks Jim. Can't wait for my tubes to arrive from you. Especially the Bad Boys! Thanks for all your help with my Freya+. Fantastic knowledge 👏 All the best, stay safe.
I’ve found with the Freya Plus if you’re using socket risers, if you pull gently straight up with no wiggling only the tube will come out, but if you add wiggle the tube and the socket riser will come out.
My videos are mostly geared towards beginners or at least I try not to leave important terms unexplained. Way back at the beginning I did one on small signal tubes - which is what the Freya uses. Beware! tubes are seductive, once you hear them, there is no going back! th-cam.com/video/fRM5XXJuKKg/w-d-xo.html
Great informative video. Do you recommend socket savers for the Freya Noval preamp? Also do the sonic properties of 6sn7 tubes from various manufacturers carry over to the electrically equivalent 6cg7? Thanks for any advice
The Freya noval takes a miniature 9 pin tube and these are all glass with integrated pins, so no matter what you do you are pushing in and pulling out on the glass, so unless you need them higher for some reason you don't need socket saver/lifters. This is only a problem with octal tubes which have a glued base and why we use socket saver/lifters when the tube is mounted in a sunken socket (terrible design decision) like the Freya+ octal preamp.
I believe that Schiit was wrong in the construction of this preamplifier. I have one and I love it, but I believe the project has been misguided when it comes to matching the tubes. As for the gain tubes (right side, next to the XLR inlets), Schiit recommends the 6SN7, but they say it works with the 6SL7 as well. The fact is that the 6SL7, although not a famous tube, has twice the gain of the 6SN7, that is, it allows the same volume level to be achieved with a smaller scale of the knob. On the other hand, with regard to the outlet tubes (on the left side, next to the XLR outlets), these must be the 6SN7. As these tubes control the output impedance, if we use the 6SL7 the preamplifier will not be able to control virtually any modern amplifier on the market. This in terms of impedance. But, the 6SN7 on the outputs turn it into a preamp that plays much more than it costs. In terms of matching the project, 6SL7 at the inputs (which amplify the signal) and 6SN7 at the output are the best combination. However, if gain or more power is not essential, eventually using better 6SN7 in the gain stage can result in something superior.
Good advice! I only sell one high quality octal socket saver/riser and the ceramic/brass body is beautifully made, But if you wiggle too hard you can break the ceramic center pin. In the hundreds i've sold, i've only had one breakage like that - and the customer refused to accept a Free replacement, saying he clearly wiggled way too hard!
Cheers Jim, I have this issue with my e180f's in my baby sabaj pha3 headphone amp. The russian 6j9 tubes are around 2" tall which gives me a good handle hold for installation and removal (plus the Russian tube logos are majority etched). Annoyingly the euro/us 6j9 (E180F) are half buried in there as they are half inch shorter. I am getting annoyed at damaging the company print off my rarer valves. I managed to wipe half the valvo logo off my triple mica's in two seconds when pulling them. I was raging lol. I'm going to get some high temp white glass paint and a fine brush to repair the logos lol (I am a tart). I will have to get some socket savers too as you say as they'll give me the stack height xx
A very impressive video. Tks! I am going to get my Schiit Freya + soon. Need your advise. Am thinking of getting Sylvania 6sn7 Chrome top for the buffer stage and Linlai e 6sn7 for the gain. Will this give me good sound quality? Looking for holographic and smooth mid range, some warmth and tight bass.Or shall I go for all 4 Sylvania 6sn7 GTAs for the Freya +. Appreciate your advise.
I have no (zero) experience with the Linlai 6sn7, but if it's made in China, I'd stay well away from it. The difference between vintage tubes and new production is night and day, yes occasionally a modern manufacturer will produce a great sounding tube - but not often! If you are looking for a premium set for your Freya, I just recently found enough inventory for my "USA Platinum" set. They don't last long unfortunately and both tubes that I use in the set (Tung-Sol "Tall Boys" and Sylvania) are high demand premium vintage 6sn7's.
Hello, interesting review on the tubes. I just got a freya+ unit and its my first tube unit. A silly question to ask, I came across many articles saying how the chassis of tube amp is live and dangerous, does the same apply to tube preamp?
No chassis for any amp or preamp, toaster, drill, hairdryer etc should ever be live. It could kill you! Quickly! The chassis of a tube amp is tied electrically directly to the house safety ground. With old amplifiers that require servicing, a live chassis is a possibility. If you ever encounter such an amp DO NOT plug it in, it must go straight to a competent service technician and they will make it safe.
I think you've misread the articles. The Freya+ chassis is definitely NOT live. When plugged into a grounded outlet, the chassis will be tied to earth/safety ground.
@@benoitlupien3834 we're located in Victoria BC, so yes we ship to Canada. Pretty much any Freya Set will work well, but you might really like the "RCA Gold" Set, the RCA tubes will give a nice amount of 2nd harmonics, filling in the midrange and helping your sound - particularly if you listen to digital files or digital records.
This is very informative. You have a new subscriber here. Quick question, does a tube with shaky / loose filament when handled a bad tube? I bought a match RCA 6sn7 and noticed it was loose when I unboxed and handled it. Thanks in advance.
Welcome! Hmm filaments don't normally get loose, they're fully inside the grid wire and plate structure, maybe you mean something else? Try and describe the part that's come loose. Normally nothing should be moving around inside a tube, that's a sign of big trouble! The exception might be a little tinckle when you rotate the tube end for end. Which is just a tiny piece of solder or glass that's gotten loose and is not normally a problem.
@@tubelab194 That's exactly it. When I move or handle the tube I hear a part of the tube that is loose or something dangling inside. I returned it not to risk damaging my electronic.
@@jianboo that's fairly common and no (zero) cause for concern, the bits that are loose are normally so tiny they won't have any short risk, so go ahead and use tubes that have a small rattle. Obviously if big chunks are moving around inside, the tube is garbage.
@@dakata2416 almost anyway you can think of (that's safe), the only delicate part is the glass, the electronics are in a vacuum so the internal components basically stay in the same condition they were manufactured. We regularly run Sylvania tubes made in the 1930's and 40's and other than the pins needing a clean up they're basically brand new (if NOS - new old stock). Sometime soon we'll do an episode on this, but in general anywhere safe from breakage inside your house is good. If you have boxes great, make use of them and then store your boxes in a shallow cardboard tray. If you don't have a box, wrapped in a layer of mini bubble wrap with an elastic around it is good, and again in a shallow tray. The most important thing is to make sure that wherever your tray of tubes is stored they can't accidentally get broken.
@@dakata2416 normal household conditions are ideal. What would cause problems is if you live near salt water - in which case sealing the tubes in a ziplock would significantly reduce pin corrosion. We store our store inventory in an unheated garage in clear 16L bins and ziplocks and they're perfectly fine. Now don't take a tube at freezing and plug it directly into an amp, that would be asking for trouble, first bring it inside and give it time to reach room temp.
Soooo, what about the father of the 6SN7? 6F8-G. Originally two, much-loved unchanged 6J5 single-triode guts transplanted into the coke-bottle envelope with a top cap b/c enough folks wanted one grid more isolated vs. being brought out to a pin. Requires a socket adapter but it is the 1st 6SN7G.
Great point! Also let's not forget a pair of 6j5 or det20 or cv6 or 2c22 or 6c8c, with adapters of course. And we haven't even touched on loctals! The reason I stick to the correct tube, is the vast majority of Schiit Freya owners are just getting into tubes, they probably don't want to fool around with adapters or modding the amp. And because the 6sn7 was the 12au7 of its generation, many many excellent tubes were made, and as a result we have good supply even today some 60 years later!
I am seriously considering a Freya+. I am only familiar with tubes because I am into Hi Fi, grew up in the seventies and eighties, and have heard them many times, also I'm an electrician. I never really have messed with them. My amps and equipment have always been A, AB or D. Looks like a great little unit to get into tubes, I'm a little sketchy on the recessed tube bases. I work in a factory and many of our relays have similar bases, I understand fully how they can be hard to put in/take out. Boards are easily damaged by twisting and pulling on stuff. Would you recommend the Freya+ or is there a better option for me in this price range? I am asking for the mechanical issue, for what I understand it is a great sounding pre-amp. Currently I run my DAC straight to my amp, it has balanced outs and works great. Very precise, neutral, quality sound, but no color. I miss that from the older equipment, I figure tubes will be a great change/add to my system. Thanks, very informative.
A simple solution to any recessed socket is to use a socket saver/lifter, we carry a high quality ceramic and brass type in the store for both miniature 9 pins and for 8 pin octals (Freya 6sn7). These are simply used as lifters and work well. Another option to the Freya is one of our quality Kit Preamps, we offer two preamps, both are dual mono designs with pure class A circuitry. The downside for some is that they use single ended unbalanced circuits (RCA patch cords). In my opinion as an audiophile this is superior to balanced circuits - at least for home audio. Here's a link to the store: www.valvesnmore.com
Great question! I don't own a Freya, but I have used quality socket savers/lifters in my R8 amp for the same reason, the tubes are sunk partially and I am constantly rolling vintage tubes and don't want to loosen up the bases. The capacitance of 22awg wire is 14pF/ft or 46/m. If we allow 1 inch for the extension, that works out to 1/12 x 14 = 1.166pF, or a negligible to nil effect. If the socket savers are well made the resistance should be very close to zero. I remember checking the resistance of my sockets and I was wasn't able to measure any. That doesn't mean they measure zero, just that the resistance was so low I couldn't measure it, even with my very sensitive meter. So in summary, well made socket savers (always test for resistance) will not affect the EQ (sound) in any significant way.
A number of options will hopefully give you what you are looking for. The vintage Tung-Sol 6sn7gtb tall boy with mouse ear mica spacers (rare and very very expensive). I have these in the 12sn7 version and they're in my top 3 6sn7's. Being able to play the more available 12sn7's was why I designed and introduced the Universal 6or12sn7 Dual Mono Kit Preamp. Another more available option is the vintage Marconi 6sn7gtb (#140), an early design (elevated black T plates) this tube has a very open warm sound with a nice top end. Many of my customers consider it a favorite.
Thanks Jim. The topic of tube rolling is intriguing to one who has never heard the sound produced by a tube amp. My vintage system with a capital V is all solid state. My B&O turn table has no preamp, but my old Nakamichi receiver does. Some audiophile gurus on the Internet say that the amp is not as critical to system sound as is the preamp, or at least that is my understanding of their message. As I see it, I have a few of options. 1) I can purchase a tube preamp and plug it into the Aux input of my Nakamichi receiver--is this an insane option? 2) I can purchase an integrated tube amp which includes a preamp circuit. 3) I can rob a local bank and purchase both a tube preamp and a non-integrated tube amp. Can anyone enlighten me as to the best option? (I don't have a huge budget with which to work.) Thanks
An integrated amp worthy of consideration is the Willsenton R8, yes it's Chi-Fi, but it is well made, sounds great and best of all about $1,200 delivered! Beware though it'll come with poor quality Chinese tubes, so you have to figure on upgrading the entire set if you want to let her really sing!
@@Oldgoat912 If you order, buy direct from Chi-Fi, cheaper and order the EL34 option, they actually give you a credit on the purchase price, and you're not going to want to use those tubes anyway. Also if you are patient take freight by Sea, slow (2 months) but a lot cheaper! You can pop into my online store www.valvesnmore.com to get an idea of the re-tubing cost, look for Willsenton Tube Packages, even the Bronze package will sound great and compared to the Chinese tubes - Fantastic!
I've been struggling to learn about hi-fi audio (in my old age...), and even worse sifting through the vast number of products on the market. This may be slightly off topic...but would the combination of a Schitt Bifrost DAC and Freya+ (with good tubes of course); then paired with a fairly good (100 watt) amp and another 250watt amp; give me good sound to power my Heresey 1's (circa 1972) and vintage Bose 901 (circa 1968)? I plan to stream hi-def HD music mostly. I like their warranty, their simplicity, their price point and very importantly; their Made in USA aspects. I had been looking at Canary, Cary and McIntosh; but frankly ....they are all but out of reach for me.($)
A lot more good tube options exist today compared to even a couple of years ago. 1. Sell the 901's, an exciting speaker back in the day, not considered HiFi anymore. 2. Take that money and Upgrade your Heresey 1, mainly the crossover, but if a new titanium tweeter diaphragm available (Google upgrades) then do that as well. That will give you high efficiency speakers of good quality. 3. With those high efficiency speakers you could build a pair of monoblocks and a preamp kit (coming this Fall). And experience glorious SE sound. This is only a good option if you enjoy building stuff. 4. Or buy something like the integrated Willsenton R8, cheapest by slow boat direct from Chi-Fi. Beware though you'll need to spend more money on tubes to let her sing to potential. With the R8 you don't absolutely have to have a preamp (though they help) and just need your DAC interface and Bob's Your Uncle you'll have a great system. On a relatively low budget.
The short answer is nobody knows how long a tube will last! The cost is easy, just visit www.valvesnmore.com for the Freya+ I've got tube packages, so you don't need to be experienced with the various brands and variations, just pick a package that you like and Bob's Your Uncle! Now as far as tube life goes, many factors affect how long a tube will last. If the tube is taken care of and not abused this makes a huge difference! Obviously quality NOS (new old stock) will on average last longer than used. Some mil spec (military) tubes have extended life heaters as well, sometimes rated to 10,000hrs! In general a quality new tube (not Chinese) will last 2-5,000 hours - in general! If you love turning equipment on and off constantly, much less! And if you believe in leaving your equipment on 24/7 much less! Remember a vacuum tube requires a strong filament to emit, and the heater aka filament, has a finite life span and like old fashioned light bulbs, will first dim (get weaker) and probably long before the filament burns out, become too weak to be useable.
An excellent question! First of some tubes are twin triodes and some single. For example two very common and very alike preamp tubes are the 12au7 and 6sn7, they both have two tubes in one envelope. Whereas the 6J5 (one half of a 6sn7) has only one section. So a very simple preamp has a gain stage and a cathode follower and if using the 12au7 you only need one tube per channel or two for stereo! If you need more gain, you need to either change to a higher gain tube or add more tubes. And if you are using a true balanced circuit you need double the tubes!
@@iampuzzleman282 I'm not aware of a book or online post specifically related to how preamps work. But here's an overview, they really aren't that complicated! In its simplest form it is just a volume knob (line preamp) something inline with the signal that controls volume. Add switching (source/tape loop etc) and you now have a basic preamp. In a tube preamplifier, you need at least one tube gain stage and in most cases a cathode follower stage. The gain is self explanatory, the stage can increase the volume of the input signal, say from 2vac to 5vac. The cathode follower doesn't increase the gain but gives us a low impedance signal or another way to say it is a low resistance signal that can easily pass through wires of length to the next stage without any additions to the signal. I have several tube labs talking about my various prototype preamps, complete with a look and explanation of how the circuit works.
Schiit Freya+ and good power amp! The R8 is good, but it doesn't compare to a Schiit Freya+ and good tube power amp. Roll the tubes on your Schiit Freya+ until you get the best sound. Sound is subjective and we all have our own taste.
No sign of it, but that's normal, in return for cheap shipping (well cheapish) you get a slow boat from China. That said it'll probably land on my doorstep next week. I have a huge selection of tubes to review for each type. So will probably break it down into many episodes. Then the mods, well this could take all year in bits and pieces!
@@tubelab194 ahh I was more impatient, I paid for air freight. Have had mine for two weeks. Interested in hearing your opinion, especially on the build quality. My only concern is the quality of the trans.
@@snowrs1 According to reviewers I trust, build and sound quality are excellent. As you stated it's all about the output transformers. When I finally listen to it critically, I hope I can give the sound a good review! Otherwise it will be impossible to review tubes with it, which was really the focus of bringing it in for Tube Lab. Soon!
I have bought bunch of 6J5's and i am planning to use them with an adapter with Freya +...By the way do you think adapters or things like socket savers have impact on the sound quality?Thanks!
True the 6J5 is equal to 1/2 a 6SN7 or a better way to put it, is the 6sn7 is made up of two (2) 6J5's inside one envelope. So it won't work, as you'll only have half a tube! Adapters, well less is almost always more, however a well made adapter or socket saver should not subtract from the circuit in any significant or meaningful way. I recommend socket savers for the Freya to lift the tubes up to top plate height so you don't have to grasp the glass to insert or pull - a very bad idea with vintage tubes!
@@tubelab194 Thanks for the tip!Well there are adapters which use 2x6J5 as single 6SN7 and people claim that two 6J5 tubes sound much better than any single 6SN7 tube.7193 and CV6 tubes are praised a lot as well and they can be used with an adapter too.
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Hi Jim, nice job of showing different tubes that can be used in the gain section of the Freya+ Pre-amp. I recently bought the Freya+ and have done some tube rolling so your timing of this video is really good. One tube that sounds sweet to my ears is CBS Hytron 6sn7GT did add a wider sound stage, clear base and focused mid range to my listening experience. Please keep the videos coming! Thank-you.
Yes the Hytron is a very nice tube and I try and keep as many in stock as I can. I always have more tubes to bring out for show and tell than I have space or time for! Thanks for letting everyone know!
In regard to the socket saver I have tried four of them into the Freya pre-amp with limited success. While rolling tubes two of the socket savers the middle plastic slot broke off. If you do find a good quality socket saver please let me know, I will purchase them immediately. Thanks
Wow... What a great topic! Thanks Jim.
Can't wait for my tubes to arrive from you. Especially the Bad Boys!
Thanks for all your help with my Freya+. Fantastic knowledge 👏
All the best, stay safe.
Very informative, Jim. I just came across your videos. I’ll spend more time going through your videos during the Easter break!
Great video!
I’ve found with the Freya Plus if you’re using socket risers, if you pull gently straight up with no wiggling only the tube will come out, but if you add wiggle the tube and the socket riser will come out.
I'm looking at the Freya+ and watching many videos. I'm going to have to go through your videos. Basically I need a Tube Primer 101.
My videos are mostly geared towards beginners or at least I try not to leave important terms unexplained. Way back at the beginning I did one on small signal tubes - which is what the Freya uses. Beware! tubes are seductive, once you hear them, there is no going back! th-cam.com/video/fRM5XXJuKKg/w-d-xo.html
Great informative video. Do you recommend socket savers for the Freya Noval preamp? Also do the sonic properties of 6sn7 tubes from various manufacturers carry over to the electrically equivalent 6cg7? Thanks for any advice
The Freya noval takes a miniature 9 pin tube and these are all glass with integrated pins, so no matter what you do you are pushing in and pulling out on the glass, so unless you need them higher for some reason you don't need socket saver/lifters. This is only a problem with octal tubes which have a glued base and why we use socket saver/lifters when the tube is mounted in a sunken socket (terrible design decision) like the Freya+ octal preamp.
I believe that Schiit was wrong in the construction of this preamplifier. I have one and I love it, but I believe the project has been misguided when it comes to matching the tubes.
As for the gain tubes (right side, next to the XLR inlets), Schiit recommends the 6SN7, but they say it works with the 6SL7 as well. The fact is that the 6SL7, although not a famous tube, has twice the gain of the 6SN7, that is, it allows the same volume level to be achieved with a smaller scale of the knob.
On the other hand, with regard to the outlet tubes (on the left side, next to the XLR outlets), these must be the 6SN7. As these tubes control the output impedance, if we use the 6SL7 the preamplifier will not be able to control virtually any modern amplifier on the market. This in terms of impedance. But, the 6SN7 on the outputs turn it into a preamp that plays much more than it costs. In terms of matching the project, 6SL7 at the inputs (which amplify the signal) and 6SN7 at the output are the best combination.
However, if gain or more power is not essential, eventually using better 6SN7 in the gain stage can result in something superior.
Very professional review. May I ask for Schiit Freya+ Preamp if 6SN7 can be replaced by a 6n23p with a 6sn7 adaptor. Both 6.3 v
Watch out for the cheap tube socket risers; I’ve had the middle key break off in the preamp socket and had to extract it with pliers.
Good advice! I only sell one high quality octal socket saver/riser and the ceramic/brass body is beautifully made, But if you wiggle too hard you can break the ceramic center pin. In the hundreds i've sold, i've only had one breakage like that - and the customer refused to accept a Free replacement, saying he clearly wiggled way too hard!
Cheers Jim, I have this issue with my e180f's in my baby sabaj pha3 headphone amp. The russian 6j9 tubes are around 2" tall which gives me a good handle hold for installation and removal (plus the Russian tube logos are majority etched). Annoyingly the euro/us 6j9 (E180F) are half buried in there as they are half inch shorter. I am getting annoyed at damaging the company print off my rarer valves. I managed to wipe half the valvo logo off my triple mica's in two seconds when pulling them. I was raging lol. I'm going to get some high temp white glass paint and a fine brush to repair the logos lol (I am a tart). I will have to get some socket savers too as you say as they'll give me the stack height xx
A very impressive video. Tks! I am going to get my Schiit Freya + soon. Need your advise. Am thinking of getting Sylvania 6sn7 Chrome top for the buffer stage and Linlai e 6sn7 for the gain. Will this give me good sound quality? Looking for holographic and smooth mid range, some warmth and tight bass.Or shall I go for all 4 Sylvania 6sn7 GTAs for the Freya +. Appreciate your advise.
I have no (zero) experience with the Linlai 6sn7, but if it's made in China, I'd stay well away from it. The difference between vintage tubes and new production is night and day, yes occasionally a modern manufacturer will produce a great sounding tube - but not often! If you are looking for a premium set for your Freya, I just recently found enough inventory for my "USA Platinum" set. They don't last long unfortunately and both tubes that I use in the set (Tung-Sol "Tall Boys" and Sylvania) are high demand premium vintage 6sn7's.
Hello, interesting review on the tubes. I just got a freya+ unit and its my first tube unit. A silly question to ask, I came across many articles saying how the chassis of tube amp is live and dangerous, does the same apply to tube preamp?
No chassis for any amp or preamp, toaster, drill, hairdryer etc should ever be live. It could kill you! Quickly! The chassis of a tube amp is tied electrically directly to the house safety ground. With old amplifiers that require servicing, a live chassis is a possibility. If you ever encounter such an amp DO NOT plug it in, it must go straight to a competent service technician and they will make it safe.
I think you've misread the articles. The Freya+ chassis is definitely NOT live. When plugged into a grounded outlet, the chassis will be tied to earth/safety ground.
Do you ship to Canada? I’m the proud owner of Schiit Freya + and listening to punk rock music. What do you have for me?
@@benoitlupien3834 we're located in Victoria BC, so yes we ship to Canada. Pretty much any Freya Set will work well, but you might really like the "RCA Gold" Set, the RCA tubes will give a nice amount of 2nd harmonics, filling in the midrange and helping your sound - particularly if you listen to digital files or digital records.
@@tubelab194 yes i listen to digital sources FLAC not streaming
@@tubelab194 I’ve lived in Victoria years ago… I’m an active navy person now in Halifax
This is very informative. You have a new subscriber here.
Quick question, does a tube with shaky / loose filament when handled a bad tube? I bought a match RCA 6sn7 and noticed it was loose when I unboxed and handled it. Thanks in advance.
Welcome! Hmm filaments don't normally get loose, they're fully inside the grid wire and plate structure, maybe you mean something else? Try and describe the part that's come loose. Normally nothing should be moving around inside a tube, that's a sign of big trouble! The exception might be a little tinckle when you rotate the tube end for end. Which is just a tiny piece of solder or glass that's gotten loose and is not normally a problem.
@@tubelab194 That's exactly it. When I move or handle the tube I hear a part of the tube that is loose or something dangling inside.
I returned it not to risk damaging my electronic.
@@jianboo that's fairly common and no (zero) cause for concern, the bits that are loose are normally so tiny they won't have any short risk, so go ahead and use tubes that have a small rattle. Obviously if big chunks are moving around inside, the tube is garbage.
What's the proper way to store tubes?
@@dakata2416 almost anyway you can think of (that's safe), the only delicate part is the glass, the electronics are in a vacuum so the internal components basically stay in the same condition they were manufactured. We regularly run Sylvania tubes made in the 1930's and 40's and other than the pins needing a clean up they're basically brand new (if NOS - new old stock). Sometime soon we'll do an episode on this, but in general anywhere safe from breakage inside your house is good. If you have boxes great, make use of them and then store your boxes in a shallow cardboard tray. If you don't have a box, wrapped in a layer of mini bubble wrap with an elastic around it is good, and again in a shallow tray. The most important thing is to make sure that wherever your tray of tubes is stored they can't accidentally get broken.
@@tubelab194 what about environmental conditions?
@@dakata2416 normal household conditions are ideal. What would cause problems is if you live near salt water - in which case sealing the tubes in a ziplock would significantly reduce pin corrosion. We store our store inventory in an unheated garage in clear 16L bins and ziplocks and they're perfectly fine. Now don't take a tube at freezing and plug it directly into an amp, that would be asking for trouble, first bring it inside and give it time to reach room temp.
Soooo, what about the father of the 6SN7? 6F8-G. Originally two, much-loved unchanged 6J5 single-triode guts transplanted into the coke-bottle envelope with a top cap b/c enough folks wanted one grid more isolated vs. being brought out to a pin. Requires a socket adapter but it is the 1st 6SN7G.
Great point! Also let's not forget a pair of 6j5 or det20 or cv6 or 2c22 or 6c8c, with adapters of course. And we haven't even touched on loctals! The reason I stick to the correct tube, is the vast majority of Schiit Freya owners are just getting into tubes, they probably don't want to fool around with adapters or modding the amp. And because the 6sn7 was the 12au7 of its generation, many many excellent tubes were made, and as a result we have good supply even today some 60 years later!
gracias todo es muy bueno
I am seriously considering a Freya+. I am only familiar with tubes because I am into Hi Fi, grew up in the seventies and eighties, and have heard them many times, also I'm an electrician. I never really have messed with them. My amps and equipment have always been A, AB or D. Looks like a great little unit to get into tubes, I'm a little sketchy on the recessed tube bases. I work in a factory and many of our relays have similar bases, I understand fully how they can be hard to put in/take out. Boards are easily damaged by twisting and pulling on stuff. Would you recommend the Freya+ or is there a better option for me in this price range? I am asking for the mechanical issue, for what I understand it is a great sounding pre-amp. Currently I run my DAC straight to my amp, it has balanced outs and works great. Very precise, neutral, quality sound, but no color. I miss that from the older equipment, I figure tubes will be a great change/add to my system. Thanks, very informative.
A simple solution to any recessed socket is to use a socket saver/lifter, we carry a high quality ceramic and brass type in the store for both miniature 9 pins and for 8 pin octals (Freya 6sn7). These are simply used as lifters and work well. Another option to the Freya is one of our quality Kit Preamps, we offer two preamps, both are dual mono designs with pure class A circuitry. The downside for some is that they use single ended unbalanced circuits (RCA patch cords). In my opinion as an audiophile this is superior to balanced circuits - at least for home audio.
Here's a link to the store: www.valvesnmore.com
@@tubelab194👍 thank you. I will check it ot for sure.
Does the added capacitance and resistance of the socket savers/extenders have an audible impact on the SQ?
Great question! I don't own a Freya, but I have used quality socket savers/lifters in my R8 amp for the same reason, the tubes are sunk partially and I am constantly rolling vintage tubes and don't want to loosen up the bases. The capacitance of 22awg wire is 14pF/ft or 46/m. If we allow 1 inch for the extension, that works out to 1/12 x 14 = 1.166pF, or a negligible to nil effect. If the socket savers are well made the resistance should be very close to zero. I remember checking the resistance of my sockets and I was wasn't able to measure any. That doesn't mean they measure zero, just that the resistance was so low I couldn't measure it, even with my very sensitive meter. So in summary, well made socket savers (always test for resistance) will not affect the EQ (sound) in any significant way.
What tube would you recommend for the Freya plus to give the best upper midrange smoothness but yet keep the heights detailed and airy?
A number of options will hopefully give you what you are looking for. The vintage Tung-Sol 6sn7gtb tall boy with mouse ear mica spacers (rare and very very expensive). I have these in the 12sn7 version and they're in my top 3 6sn7's. Being able to play the more available 12sn7's was why I designed and introduced the Universal 6or12sn7 Dual Mono Kit Preamp. Another more available option is the vintage Marconi 6sn7gtb (#140), an early design (elevated black T plates) this tube has a very open warm sound with a nice top end. Many of my customers consider it a favorite.
circuitos valvular si es posible muchas gracias
Thanks Jim. The topic of tube rolling is intriguing to one who has never heard the sound produced by a tube amp. My vintage system with a capital V is all solid state. My B&O turn table has no preamp, but my old Nakamichi receiver does. Some audiophile gurus on the Internet say that the amp is not as critical to system sound as is the preamp, or at least that is my understanding of their message. As I see it, I have a few of options. 1) I can purchase a tube preamp and plug it into the Aux input of my Nakamichi receiver--is this an insane option? 2) I can purchase an integrated tube amp which includes a preamp circuit. 3) I can rob a local bank and purchase both a tube preamp and a non-integrated tube amp. Can anyone enlighten me as to the best option? (I don't have a huge budget with which to work.) Thanks
An integrated amp worthy of consideration is the Willsenton R8, yes it's Chi-Fi, but it is well made, sounds great and best of all about $1,200 delivered! Beware though it'll come with poor quality Chinese tubes, so you have to figure on upgrading the entire set if you want to let her really sing!
@@tubelab194 I was afraid someone would say that. The price is closer to $1500 US. What kind of price range can I expect to replace the KT88 variant?
@@Oldgoat912 If you order, buy direct from Chi-Fi, cheaper and order the EL34 option, they actually give you a credit on the purchase price, and you're not going to want to use those tubes anyway. Also if you are patient take freight by Sea, slow (2 months) but a lot cheaper! You can pop into my online store www.valvesnmore.com to get an idea of the re-tubing cost, look for Willsenton Tube Packages, even the Bronze package will sound great and compared to the Chinese tubes - Fantastic!
I've been struggling to learn about hi-fi audio (in my old age...), and even worse sifting through the vast number of products on the market. This may be slightly off topic...but would the combination of a Schitt Bifrost DAC and Freya+ (with good tubes of course); then paired with a fairly good (100 watt) amp and another 250watt amp; give me good sound to power my Heresey 1's (circa 1972) and vintage Bose 901 (circa 1968)? I plan to stream hi-def HD music mostly. I like their warranty, their simplicity, their price point and very importantly; their Made in USA aspects. I had been looking at Canary, Cary and McIntosh; but frankly ....they are all but out of reach for me.($)
A lot more good tube options exist today compared to even a couple of years ago.
1. Sell the 901's, an exciting speaker back in the day, not considered HiFi anymore.
2. Take that money and Upgrade your Heresey 1, mainly the crossover, but if a new titanium tweeter diaphragm available (Google upgrades) then do that as well. That will give you high efficiency speakers of good quality.
3. With those high efficiency speakers you could build a pair of monoblocks and a preamp kit (coming this Fall). And experience glorious SE sound. This is only a good option if you enjoy building stuff.
4. Or buy something like the integrated Willsenton R8, cheapest by slow boat direct from Chi-Fi. Beware though you'll need to spend more money on tubes to let her sing to potential. With the R8 you don't absolutely have to have a preamp (though they help) and just need your DAC interface and Bob's Your Uncle you'll have a great system. On a relatively low budget.
@@tubelab194 Humbled by your insightful and caring reply. It means a lot to me. Can't thank you enough. :-)
is there any way to use the freya plus with my ragnarok 2 and hear a difference on my headphones ?
How do I find site to buy a few tubes
www.valvesnmore.com
What's the average life and cost of the tubes refered to in the episode ?
The short answer is nobody knows how long a tube will last! The cost is easy, just visit www.valvesnmore.com for the Freya+ I've got tube packages, so you don't need to be experienced with the various brands and variations, just pick a package that you like and Bob's Your Uncle! Now as far as tube life goes, many factors affect how long a tube will last. If the tube is taken care of and not abused this makes a huge difference! Obviously quality NOS (new old stock) will on average last longer than used. Some mil spec (military) tubes have extended life heaters as well, sometimes rated to 10,000hrs! In general a quality new tube (not Chinese) will last 2-5,000 hours - in general! If you love turning equipment on and off constantly, much less! And if you believe in leaving your equipment on 24/7 much less! Remember a vacuum tube requires a strong filament to emit, and the heater aka filament, has a finite life span and like old fashioned light bulbs, will first dim (get weaker) and probably long before the filament burns out, become too weak to be useable.
Why do some line stage pres have only 2 tubes, eg vac, and others have 8, eg arc ?
An excellent question! First of some tubes are twin triodes and some single. For example two very common and very alike preamp tubes are the 12au7 and 6sn7, they both have two tubes in one envelope. Whereas the 6J5 (one half of a 6sn7) has only one section. So a very simple preamp has a gain stage and a cathode follower and if using the 12au7 you only need one tube per channel or two for stereo! If you need more gain, you need to either change to a higher gain tube or add more tubes. And if you are using a true balanced circuit you need double the tubes!
@@tubelab194 wow, great answer, thanks. Maybe u know where i can find a good writeup explaining inner workings of a preamp. Thanks.
@@iampuzzleman282 I'm not aware of a book or online post specifically related to how preamps work. But here's an overview, they really aren't that complicated! In its simplest form it is just a volume knob (line preamp) something inline with the signal that controls volume. Add switching (source/tape loop etc) and you now have a basic preamp. In a tube preamplifier, you need at least one tube gain stage and in most cases a cathode follower stage. The gain is self explanatory, the stage can increase the volume of the input signal, say from 2vac to 5vac. The cathode follower doesn't increase the gain but gives us a low impedance signal or another way to say it is a low resistance signal that can easily pass through wires of length to the next stage without any additions to the signal. I have several tube labs talking about my various prototype preamps, complete with a look and explanation of how the circuit works.
Would you say a Freya+ with a good power amp or the R8? 😬
Schiit Freya+ and good power amp!
The R8 is good, but it doesn't compare to a Schiit Freya+ and good tube power amp.
Roll the tubes on your Schiit Freya+ until you get the best sound. Sound is subjective and we all have our own taste.
Have you received your Willsenton yet
No sign of it, but that's normal, in return for cheap shipping (well cheapish) you get a slow boat from China. That said it'll probably land on my doorstep next week. I have a huge selection of tubes to review for each type. So will probably break it down into many episodes. Then the mods, well this could take all year in bits and pieces!
@@tubelab194 ahh I was more impatient, I paid for air freight. Have had mine for two weeks. Interested in hearing your opinion, especially on the build quality. My only concern is the quality of the trans.
@@snowrs1 According to reviewers I trust, build and sound quality are excellent. As you stated it's all about the output transformers. When I finally listen to it critically, I hope I can give the sound a good review! Otherwise it will be impossible to review tubes with it, which was really the focus of bringing it in for Tube Lab. Soon!
The Russians knew tubes handled EMP quite well, could take the voltage surge while SS fries, unless shielded
I have bought bunch of 6J5's and i am planning to use them with an adapter with Freya +...By the way do you think adapters or things like socket savers have impact on the sound quality?Thanks!
True the 6J5 is equal to 1/2 a 6SN7 or a better way to put it, is the 6sn7 is made up of two (2) 6J5's inside one envelope. So it won't work, as you'll only have half a tube! Adapters, well less is almost always more, however a well made adapter or socket saver should not subtract from the circuit in any significant or meaningful way. I recommend socket savers for the Freya to lift the tubes up to top plate height so you don't have to grasp the glass to insert or pull - a very bad idea with vintage tubes!
@@tubelab194 Thanks for the tip!Well there are adapters which use 2x6J5 as single 6SN7 and people claim that two 6J5 tubes sound much better than any single 6SN7 tube.7193 and CV6 tubes are praised a lot as well and they can be used with an adapter too.
@OMR HSN is there room enough for such an adaptor on the Freya+?
@@sebastianlunoe Don't know. Never tried it.
ñerdon no entiendo ingles. solo interpreto los circuitos
you sound like kevin spacey in american beauty