@@kevonmanuel It's very easy to change a rational person's mind when confronted with indisputable evidence. If the OP hasn't heard a difference between exotic cables and excellent, reasonably-priced cables on the various high end systems owned by him or his friends, then an appreciable difference probably doesn't exist. It's quite a simple concept. It seems to me that the "night and day" differences that some people claim to hear with exotic cables MUST be plainly audible to a person of this OP's experience. Some people´s perceived differences between certain cables are much more easily explained using psychological rather than physical phenomena. Occam's razor. I will be a True Believer™ in exotic cables when someone publishes the first properly controlled, scientifically designed double-blind listening test (that is able to be replicated) and which shows a consistent, significant difference in sound. Why hasn't a study like this been done when it is SO easy to set up and not terribly expensive? The answer is plainly obvious to a thinking person. Remember, as in any debate, the skeptics or non believers don't have to prove a point: They are not making any claims. The True Believers™and the manufacturers are afraid of the inevitable results of such a test. The manufacturers have everything to lose. They are very astute marketers and understand consumer psychology. It is not how I would do business but at least no one is doing anything illegal.
The 2 guys that founded Schiit were the top brains at Theta Digital and Sumo, among other companies. They don't make 'good' components that will blend into the field like Parasound, Emotiva, Rotel, NAD. Their MO is affordable giant killers. Lots of companies say that but Schiit walks the walk
90% - “Once it’s good enough, it comes down to a question of taste”... Truer words in the audiophile world have never been spoken before. So many people will push their opinion on you in forums, but the truth is they are pushing their taste on you chasing the last 10% Fantastic review.
Thomas, great review. Can you provide me with the exact tubes you ended up with ? You mention "I got great results using GE tubes made in Canada. GTA and GTB." I would like to order these as well, but looking for the exact numbers so I too can order. Thanks again.
I am currently using a music reference rm5 mk3 I purchased for like 350. thirty years ago the best preamp I have ever had but a week ago I isolated it with a 2 inch thick piece of bamboo with sixteen sorbathane feet and it revieled its self wow more detail just beautiful I always liked this preamp but now I love it I wish I knew the difference isolation could bring to my sound system years ago.
Just wanted to thank you, Thomas, for always being the most pragmatic audiophile there is. It was this video that sold me, finally, on the Schiit Freya+ to partner with my Nord Three (dual Purifi 1ET400A) and I couldn't be happier. Even with stock tubes the combination is perfect for me. Side note: Looking forward to trying a set of GTBs with it too. Thanks again!
Thomas,, I just bought a Freya Plus preamp based on your recommendation (6/20/2021). It's my first tube gear, was little nervous about handling tubes. But the sound was just glorious and so different from my solid state amp alone. Only been about 30 hours, so the sound should improve if anything. Thanks for your straightforward and practical advice.
LOL! Thomas, you have just explained to me what is the meaning of "love - hate" relationship! Great stuff! Keep it up, I really enjoy your sense of humor.
I took the advice on the GE tubes. I bought one of these preamps and used the Tung Sol 6SN7 tubes that came with it. At first I was slightly unimpressed. My other preamp is a fully refreshed and upgraded Carver C-1. The first thing I noticed was that the instruments were better separated with my carver. I then noticed that I heard more detail with the Freya (It's actually a Freya + now). So, I ordered the GE 6SN7 GTB tubes and they did a better job of separating the instruments on my system, than the Tung Sol tubes did. I'm very happy with my purchase even though it cost 100.00 dollars more now.
@@ThomasAndStereo Hi Thomas, can you tell me what tubes you ended up with being your choice....I grew up with boxes and boxes of various tubes for amps and TVs... original GEC's etc...would be nice to hear from you
Thomas, I purchased the Schiit Saga Preamp for $349.00. It replaced a Rogue Audio RP-1 at $1700.00. The Saga is more transparent, dynamic and has better pace, rhythm and timing . My wife and I did a lot of listening to my system with this extremely inexpensive Saga preamp (with a micro processor resistor ladder volume control mind you), and we looked at each other and both agreed that it was way better than good enough and I'm picky about sound. Schitt's the best bang for the buck in a preamp. I heard a pair of their $799.00 Aegir amps run in mono at Axpona 2019, a few days ago with the Schiit Freya, and it sounded great with a digital front end (Yggdrasil) and Salk speakers. To top it off, you get a five (5) year warranty!
Man, thank you, I'm so glad I read this about the Schiit Saga as well, thanks :) I want to pair up a nice high quality preamp with a Crown XLS1502 Drive Core power amp behind it. Some people think that's crazy but I know it is a high resolution Class D power amp and I'm really curious how that combo will sound, especially if its a tube preamp. Here's my latest video, too , enjoy Cheers, Mario th-cam.com/video/iGreY8bUOpE/w-d-xo.html
Oh, very surprised at the Saga.I hear mixed review on it and I should try it one day. I was always interested to give Rogue Audio a try and am impressed that you prefer the Saga over it. I like the 5 year warranty part. It's amazing we live in an age we can get so amazing sound at an affordable price.
I too am amazed as a previous owner of a Rogue Perseus tube preamp. I was looking to get an RP-1, but reading up on the Saga and the Freya have me rethinking. I appreciate your comment.
Great honest review Thomas! I had the Freya 2 years ago, bought it, used it for 3 months, tried to like it but at the end it paled in comparison to my Modwright LS100. Passive mode was Ok, Jfet mode was preferred over passive. But 8/10 times I ended up using it in active tube mode. But like you said, its a new type of tube sound, neutral and holographic. The Modwright achieved the same but with much more weight and meatyness to the sound. The Freya sounded quite lean in comparison. My biggest quam about the Freya was the care needed to swap tubes, its so easy to put them in the wrong way and smoke it..
Ah thanks. I have the Modwright LS100 too and yup, there is more meat to the sound. I actually let a friend did a quick AB test between the modwright and Freya, now he owns a $100k+ systems and for a quick listen, the Freya was pretty ok and as you said, leaner. For me, you belong to that 10% of the people who can hear a big difference between the both.
"GOOD enough!" You're talking my language, Thomas! Couldn't agree with you more. Getting that 90+% is enough for me. May have to check this out. Nice review!
Schiit Audio gear is good enough for me too. Their Freya preamp mated to a pair of their new Aegir amps, run in mono sounded great at Axpona last week.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thomas, How did you end up with a left handed Freya+? Tubes on the left. I want one! Also, do you know if a single Aegir will drive a set of Elac UB52's?
Hello Thomas, I love you reviews. Very straight forward. No audiophile fluff, well maybe very little. All my audio life I've owned SS. Tubes never interested me. But curiosty killed this SS cat. I was using a Marantz PM8804 as a preamp after I retired my home theater for a two channel system. I gifted the Marantz to my sister along with a set of Elac UB5 speakers. Yes I love her. I'm currently using a Wyred 4 Sound rig. I have the DAC2_DSDse and a set of SX1000 monoblocks, driving the Pioneer S-1ex speakers. I love the control of the bass, and the speed of the class D amps, but I find myself wanting a deeper sound stage. Since the DAC has a volume control, I don't use a preamp. And now that I purchased a turntable I need the preamp. With it's great reviews, and great price, I ordered the Freya+. I was going to go all in with a Primaluna pre, but decided on trying the Freya. Tube rolling also interest me. What is a good resource to learn a little about differences in individual tubes sound? Thanks again Thomas for your informative reviews and your honesty. Hope to start rolling soon. Oh and I ordered the Mani phono preamp too. CHEER!!! Glenn
It should sound like Schiit. Economist call it "diminishing returns" when you pay a lot more for just a little bit better. In high end audio equipment, diminishing returns is the rule. There is NOTHING that costs 3X more and sounds 4X better.
I used black glass Ken-Rad VT231’s in the gain position, CBS/Hytron 5692’s in buffers. WOW.smooth with GREAT bass. Better than my ARCSP6B, almost as good as my CarySLP05. I could happily live with my Freya+ forever
This is not a review unit sent to me, I bought it used with my own money. I forgot to mention, this tube amp does have microphonic issues, some tubes we tried sounded microphonic. I got great results using GE tubes made in Canada. GTA and GTB. (That is all that is written on it, no idea what they are) The Freya has the new sound, lean and clean so we found good match with tubes that are 'meaty' sounding.
@@keeferdog5617 Oh, good question, my friend never tried to tune it that way, I have to ask him. I think his rule is that neutral sounding gear is easier to tune it to color sounding. While color sounding gear is harder to fine tune it to neutral.
Thomas & Stereo Sure, good point. That makes sense. Thanks for the quick reply. I’m looking for a good, inexpensive tube preamp to pair with a rather forward amp (Emotiva) and an extended, dare I say bright Focal (al/mag tweet) speakers. So you see the need for a pre to take the edge off the high end (if possible- I know...lose the high gain, forward amp) Always look forward to seeing your vids. Thanks
@@keeferdog5617 Oh, Focal. My favorite bright speaker. I had the Emotiva XPA5 before and those amps are very clear so if you add a freya in, that also is very clear, then you might need to change the tubes to 'roll off' tubes if it sounds too bright. You see, the older tubes will 'round' off the edges but the newer tubes don't necessary do that.
@@ThomasAndStereo How come the tubes and the controls in the video are sometimes on the left side of the chassis and other times they are on the right?
Schiit does not aim to provide a super "tubey" sound like you get from traditional romantic amps. They are also NOT aiming for cost-is-no-object. Tube rolling can either make it more of what it is (Russian NOS) or more romantic (Mullard, for ex) to tailor to a different taste. COSTLY tube amps usually come with costly tubes. No way to meet a price point. The bottom line is that the amp provides a GREAT level of performance and quality for the money. The guys at Schiit audio designed amps like the andromeda, which can power the 2 ohm Apogee Scintilla. They KNOW how to make great products. To make it a boutique amp they just need 4 things: 1. CNC milled case 2. More costly tubes 3. Boutique-friendly name. Maybe a French moniker like "Merde" instead. 4. A Penny & Giles heavy duty volume potentiometer. And maybe a pointless backlit VU meter.
Thomas, I hate to ask but can you be more specific about which tubes you were talking about, GE GTA & GE GTB are the same no? Reason i ask is i just ordered the Freya and selected the Russian 6N8S. Are the 6SN7 better performers? I ordered the Freya Saturday so they will be looking over the orders from the weekend on Monday and I was hoping to be able to catch the order before it is filled to change the tubes so i would greatly appreciate your comments. Thanks, Don
Yes they are the same but I think one warms up faster than the other, I remember someone mentioning the difference in the comments. I don't now if the 6N8s will be better as I never tried those. How you enjoy the amp, sorry I don't know enough to help.
Personaly im having problems categorising this unit as a preamp. Except the - nicely done - attenuator and a rather limtied array of in and outs its just a selectable bufferstage (JFet or valves) to massage the input signal.
According to the late Julian Hirsch, the most expensive component of speakers is the cabinet. But I think in today's market it's the perceived value like anything else.
@@herrtrigger7220 I honestly don’t know... I was really busy with work and when I got home every night I thought about that box, every single night. Until the day of the comment above... and I have not stopped using it ever since, such a great piece! It just makes everything sound better and my Heresys love it.
I second that, or ditto or yeah, please tell us what are the different tubes that you are using? Thank you for another honest informative video. Apparently he uses the GE 6SN7GTA or the GE 6SN7GTB. It is in the description and I have to admit I missed it myself.
I have a RME DAC, I use it as a pre-amp, love it. Very neutral, but has a built in EQ and a couple ways to subtly change the sound. I would lick to maybe add some color to music sometime, I figure a tube pre-amp is a good way to do it.
What an honest and insightful review . Surprising in this day and age when better is measured by price . My only complaint is not informing us as to name of his upgraded tubes as I am a tube guy !
Thomas, your mention of cable/cable-wars reminded me how much I'm still looking forward to your video on how your friend made the "high-end" cables!!! Hope you haven't given up on that. Great video.
Ah, that one. Everytime I mention about cables, people go to war in my comment section! I am breaking in a pair right now actually and it's one of the best speaker cable I have used. I can stop my search for speaker cables at this point. Just google on lItz cable.
@@ThomasAndStereo that's almost a teaser... is there a particular brand you've come to enjoy or did you make a DIY cable.. that's "good enough and cheap!"
For me cables is system dependant. Meaning if the setup is too bright, I would use cables that are not to balance it out. So in that sense, there is no best cable. These DIY cables are expensive because LITZ cables are expensive to start with. Although I have experience the differences in cables, I usually tell people don't worry too much about it. Unless your system has a significant problem and you need cables to adjust it, I usually tell people just don't concern yourself with it as the changes is very subtle and not always for the better.
I sense a resentment of new equipment that out performs significantly more expensive audio equipment. I do not subscribe to the notion that you always get what you pay for. What determines the sound quality is how well the engineers designed the product regardless of the price and the company behind them. If some engineering wizzard discovers a better, new way (the" secret sauce" as they say in the software industry) to design and build these better sounding components (preamps, amps, phono sectiojns, DACS speakers that cost a fraction of the price of "some inferior, more expensive equipment" then we all benefit. I personally do not have the ability to purchase two or three preamps like your $5K and $10K pieces. I don't think most of the people who buy the Freya will want to be switching out tubes and I don't think the manufacturer designed the preamp expecting that one would do hundreds of tube swaps just to see what sounded "warmer" or "sharper" or "tighter" etc., all very subjective . I do not have multiple four wheel sets with different tires that I change weekly on my car to see if one set of tires is noisier, smoother, handles better at high speeds while cornering etc., etc., This is what some of these reviews are beginning to sound like. Pick a system of components that deliver 90-95% of the audio benefit at a fraction of the cost of the "best sounding equipment" and live with and be happy with your great sounding system. But some people are never satisfied and are always looking for something better regardless of the cost. Take the extra $$ saved and attend more live concerts!
Lots of stuff I agree with what you said. Some I don't but it is normal that we all have different opinions. No resentment, it's a good thing for everyone to have a gear that performs well at a budget price. Just pissed off that I have to pay a lot more to get a bit better.
The point of diminishing returns is fairly low. I bought a Yamaha C5E Conservatory Grand Piano many years ago because it was 95% of a Steinway Model B for less than 1/2 the price. As you know there are hundreds of audio system combinations that will deliver very good sound but the single most important factor in this discussion is the listening room shape and size and it's associated acoustics. An audio engineer that I knew, used to always say that he would take a good sounding audio system in a outstanding listening room over an outstanding audio system in a mediocre listening room.
ranadeau The reason you get what you pay for is in development time - and expertise. Like good food, good designs take time and expertise. Many manufacturers rush products to the market without taking the necessary to to tweak the circuit or carefully layout the circuit board. Circuits aren’t circuits, measurements aren’t measurements, and engineers aren’t engineers.
You don't always get what you pay for in audio, and more expensive doesn't always mean better. So much of the high end ticket price is attached to the brand, exclusivity, over-engineered and elaborate casing etc. In this case the Schiit is focusing on the quality of the circuit and the primary components, so of course it can compete with things costing far more. The fact that Schiit change their mantra in different manuals merely reflects an understanding of audiophile gullibility ;)
Well, I have been looking for stuff that will perform above it's price point and so far I have not been able to find a lot of gear that can do it. If you have a few examples, please share. When I compare gear, it has to be in the same category else the comparison is not fair. I love the Freya but at the same time, I understand it's limitation when compare to something higher end in the same category. That limitation is insignificant for many people but not all people. My point is I truly am blown away by what modern budget gear can do but at the same time, I want to acknowledge there is still a difference when compared to higher end gear.
Hi Thomas, thanks for this review and I will buy this pre-amp because you hated it so much. How about their new Class A Power Amp "Aegir" ? Can you do a review on it ? You know, most of us can only afford "Good Enough" LoFi Gears.
Thanks Tom. They have a return policy so if you don't like it, you can always return it. I never tried their Aegir. The problem is that if I ask for a review sample, I don't feel as 'free' to say whatever I want as I would be if I bought it myself and review it. If I don't like it, I usually just return it without reviewing it.
I like the Concept of the Freya, I want to wind up with Martin Logan EM ESLs and the Freya to recapture the experience of Carver Amazing Loud Speakers, and Carver Silver 7 amps I heard 35 years ago.
I really enjoy your videos Thomas ! Keep up with the great content ! BTW, you just convinced me to go with the Freya+ as my next preamp to replace a (great) solid state from Canada. :)
If you have the budget, you should wait for my Doge 8 review coming in a few months, it is truly the next level up. Thanks. They have no stock now so that is why I am holding back the review.
@@ThomasAndStereo I am looking for a great tube preamp with balanced input and output. My first choice was the Primaluna EVO 400, but difficult to find in Tokyo... :(
Hi Thomas, Do you believe that the Valhalla 2 would work as good as the Freya + using upgraded Tubes? I want to experiment with a tube preamp for my system and I like the compactness that the VALHALLA 2 offers, plus it is less expensive.
I am really picky when it comes to being specific. Just because the big brother sounds good does not mean the lower end model will too. So I have no idea.
Hi Thomas, Interesting videos!! Do you prefer the Schiit Freya over the Primaluna you’ve tested or vice versa? Any major differences (except one being a preamp vs integrated ofc) Thanks Christian
It's hard to compare because my Freya was hooked up to a poweramp moon w5.3 and the whole presentation is silky smooth. The Primaluna cannot keep up but it's not a fair comparison as just my w5.3 alone is more than double the price of the Prima Luna.
A little trick that I've developed over the years with tubes is that if you coat the prongs with a bit of silicone grease with a cotton swab. It helps to keep the socket lubricated so they go in and out more easily and it resolves a lot of the conductivity issues with the sockets. Reducing noise rather a lot more than you'd think it should.
@@pauls2099 don't use normal dielectric or silicone grease. I failed to mention this: the normal stuff plasticizes over time and loses its conductivity. Becoming an insulator instead of a conductor. The one I've used for years is called, ahem, Super Lube. It doesn't plasticize like the others.
I have the freya and a Cary SLP 98P preamp. The Cary blows the schiit away, no contest. But, I bought the freya mostly for it's remote and use it with a two watt tube amp. NOS Brimar tubes sound the best, although Sylvania NOS from the '50s sound nice. I agree that you get what you pay for. It's great for $700. It doesn't compare to a high end tube preamp like my Cary no matter how good the tubes are. I am a tube roller and am very familiar with all types of tubes having played electric guitar for 50 years. The best tubes being made today are being made in China. Shuguang black treasure tubes are fantastic.
Then you fall in that 10% of the people who i mentioned that can hear a big difference. i get you 100%. i have some shuguang anniversary tubes too, strangely, i never used it on the freya, i should give it a try someday
Thomas. You help me make my mind on selecting the Freya+ it was going to be the Freya+ or the new Rotel 1590 mk2. seies unfortunately cannot find any of the two. What else would you suggest for a pre amp and Dac in that price range . Thank you your reviews are great ! .
Hi Thomas. Great review! I visited my friend with a (good enough) jbl sound bar with a sub that costs 1/15 !! of my system and I asked my self the same question, is my system that costs 15 times more worth the price difference? If I will ask 100 people on the street I guess that 80% or 90% will say its not :)) I dont want to get in to tubes same as you dont want to get into power cables. Its "too much" for me :)
I have owned this preamp for over a year now. Run it in passive mode (bypass the tube gain stage) and it sounds incredible. The fewer electronics you have in your signal path, the purer and sweeter the sound. The volume control on this preamp is exceptional.
I can only give my Freya good reviews. Ive got a complete Schiit System a Freya, Gungnir and 2 x Vidars running through a set of Wilson Watt Puppy 7 speakers. The sounds is amazing. In comparison, I also have a Mark Levinson system where the price comparison is probably 8 x the cost of the Schiit System but can barely tell the difference between the two. Granted the Mark Levinson system is nearly 20 years old but damn, the Schitt system does well for its price point. Im all for Schiit, they have done a good job!
Wow, that is quite an unusual setup! Wilson puppy with entry level priced gear. However, I get what you mean and glad you are enjoying your current setup. I don't know what kind of music you listen to but I wonder if the difference between the budget and high end will show up more in complexe music such as classical music where you need very good control and dynamic range. I just a vidar yesterday and can't wait to try it.
@@ThomasAndStereo Yes it is a unique pairing. The Schiit vs Levinson system seems to perform equally when playing a wide range of music. I enjoy a lot of contemporary classical music. I am still yet to pick a complex piece where the Levinson system sounds bigger and more revealing. I can certainly say though that the 2 x Vidars with balanced interconnects is significantly more impressive than a single Vidar. Ill be interested to hear what you think of it. Enjoy and keep up the great videos. I wish I had friends with big impressive systems as you do!
Hi Thomas, very informative as ever thank you. When you get a chance may I request you do some reviews of DACs. Am looking for more reliable reviews for RME ADI 2 DAC and Mytek DACs. Would be very thankful cheers.
great video,i am a sound system lover and i have come to the realization that to be an audiophile you need a fat wallet.presently my system i have a vintage Marantz 2325 reciever,a pair of Kenwood Mv-50 speakers and a Boston Acoustic powered subwoofer,it sounds great on a low budget.Hope one day i can experience your kind of sound
I like the audio hobby and don’t have a ‘fat wallet’. I get my satisfaction by making a good sound result from little money. You can be an audiophile with no sound system at all. P.S. just bought Freya+ and two mono Aegirs.
I,ve been around and owned high end amps preamps and great speakers. If there is no treble or bass controls i,m not interested. I adjust to get cymbals sounding right and the bass sounding right.
My favourite 6SN7 tubes are the Sylvania 6SN7GTA (50’s) and the Pope 6SN7GT. They are very nice. The Sylvania has really airy highs and sweet mids whilst the Pope is even smoother.
It depends on what kind of Sylvania 6SN7's !!!!........and the tube that does the job in a given set-up.... Over 6O years living with tubes .....it's just like wine , the one you choose to go with the menu ....it's all about harmony. 12SX7GT is the better tube............very linear on low voltages........but needs 12.6 volt on the heater. ( made for applications on low voltage , like 36 volt generators in the B17 flying fortress in WW2 )
I share your thoughts about the 'threshold', I assume you refer to the realm of diminishing returns. And then, you make sure to show us the cool Cardas power cord going into the Freya- which costs more than the Freya.
Very interesting and honest. Excuse my ignorance, but why is a preamp so important and expensive, if it only switches inputs and volume potentiometer, it should be transparent. Isn't it better to bypass it from the dac straight to powered amp or speakers? It should be the amp with the tubes to give the character, not the preamp, shouldn't it?
I would not know from a engineer point of view. What I do know is from my experience, adding a preamp makes the system sound better. I have tried many decent dacs ($4k cdn) plugging it directly to the power amp and it does not sound as good as having a good preamp in the chain.
Thanks, i explained a bit more in detail old sound in the prima luna video. I will check with my friend if he knows more. Right now, all I know is GE made in Canada. GTA tubes 6sN7.
Thanks for the video, but I do wish someone would actually show how a pre-amp operates with other components, not just talking about it, but showing how it is integrated into a system, we're not all that knowledgeable about these type of things !
Hmm, depends on your budget. I remember my mcintosh C47 could do it. My burmester (forgot the model), the rest I will have to go check my list but most of them were not in the same price category. Depends of course on price and that is why I say the Freya can do it at such a low price.
I have the Freya+ and it came with JJ tubes which sound good. I also have GE 6SN7GTA but I liked the Sylvania GTB’s from the minute I put them in, no question. .
I'm with with you Thomas. I bought Schiit Modi 2U dac back to the day. I was disappointed by the sound quality, so I asked them if I need an audiophile grade usb cable. Schiit immediately assured me that the cheapest usb cable will do the same and any usb noise filter is bs. However, when I checked their product page, they were selling an expensive PSTY usb cable which claimed to have a thicker than normal power line and silver plated data lines. I guess this is not a normal usb cable at all in contrast to what they'd told me. Most stupid of all, Schiit was selling their own expensive audiophile WYRD usb noise filter when they said all filters are bs. My conclusion is: This Schiit company is a typical shit salesman which would say anything as long as people will be pleased and then buy their products. Ps: I watched a lot of your videos recently. You are such an open minded, reasonable and objective reviewer. Pls keep on the good works and thanks for another wonderful review.👍
Really appreciate your support. I did not know they say those stuff, oh well. I am curious about their high end Dac though, there seems to be lots of good feedback on it. Good to know about the cheap dacs, I guess I will skip trying those then.
@@ThomasAndStereo The Modi 2U dac got a lot of positive critics too. When it comes to sound, it's really something subjective so you could still try any of their products and tell people what you think. May be I'm the one who have problem who knows. My problem is the harshness of the sound and the weak mid-range. Cheers.
@@SpikeoutBattleStreet Ah, the harshness of the sound, it's actually one of my talking point comparing entry level and high end dacs. One day I will make a video on Dacs.
@@ThomasAndStereo nah even my emu 1212m internal soundcard killed the bifrost DS and the modi multibit ... also my friend bought an apogee duet 2 sound card and sold the modi multibit on the spot.. i also had problem with the gungnir.. i had many production problems with schiit products.. no wonder they measure like shit. my magni is noisy as hell with the knob glitchy.. i dont agree at all that you cant find low cost product that beat higher product.. its possible since when you diy your own you can do it fairly cheap.. 699$ and cant have a solid board common... this is schiit... i will never buy any schiit product again..
ah, if you look at my past video, there are 2 exception to my statement. The first one is DIY. The 2nd one is a no name brand where a mad scientist builds something in his basement. My statement only applies to brand names. I forgot to mention that but I did in my past video. The soundcard is interesting, I have one and it's pretty good but I still hear a gap against higher end gear. Just never heard your sound card.
Of course all tube preamps will improve the sound with NOS tubes. And often I think people discount the sound of a tube product when its being limited in its capabilities because of the stock tubes that most manufactures use. Its understandable because as a manufacture has to buy tubes for their units in quantity and quality test those tubes which are bond to get a certain rejection rate which also has to be figured into their price of their products. So in otherwords never discount the sound quality of a tube product until you have had the chance to try better NOS tubes. It is nice to see budget products of this quality and seems like a sound design. Of course most high end products are hard wired but its understandable that would be impractical on a budget piece. Plus higher end products use much better quality caps and resistors. So of course it needs to be judged against higher end products to give you an idea of its weakness's. But I would certainly be interested in hearing it.
This is what my friend told me "Freya is brighter, faster, more accurate, can sound harsh on some unselected tubes, but also can be fine tune to higher-end results. Bryston 1B is a fixed power cord unit. Cannot tune the sound by swapping cable. It has a vintage tube character, a little dark, a bit slow but very musical, would lack of "hyper" details when compared to today reference standard. Can be a good choice if someone lean towards the un-audiophine type of recording. "
Thomas & Stereo Thanks for this. I own the Bryston 1B and was looking for the Freya to replace it. The Bryston is over 30 years old now so something newer would be the jolt my system needs. Not looking for a brighter character in my system so I might checkout one of the Prima Luna pre amps.
My advice to those freaking about getting good tubes. Go to Brent Jessee and order Sylvania from the 60’s- lots of sparkle, $70 a matched pair. The Baldwin rubes at $30 apiece are good also. Your Freyawill sound great with this. You can spend a little more and get 1950’s GT’s, especially the 6SN7 GT W military types for not too much more. I like the WW2 VT-231 types, but these are $300 per matched pair and up. All of these tubes will sound better and last longer than new production tubes in general.
Hi Thomas, I got my Schiit Freya +(the new version) 2 weeks ago and I've been doing some tube rolling. It came with stock Tung-Sol made in Russia, but I got some extra tubes to try and see the difference. I bought RCA, which seen great but a little brighter, I also bought Tung-Sol from the 1950's made in USA and the sound is more balanced that the RCA. Now I am waiting for the more expoensive and sought after Sylvania 6sn7GT from 1952 (Nick named big boys). I like the older tubes better and I compare this preamp to my friend's Conrad Johnson and Audio Research, which are way more expensive and the Freya + sound cleaner and has more of a 3-D sound that the more expensive ones. I also bought the Schiit mani as a phono preamp. Schiit has comed to embarrass companies making way more expensive gear! This tube preamp is really clean sounding, I don't understand when people mention noise or microphonics, there's zero noise through my speakers even with the older tubes. People also mentions tape hiss coming from cassettes and reel to reels, I have zero of that. It could be that I am using high-end decks, high quality tape and I also have a power conditioner!
Glad that the Freya is really working out for you. I really like it too and I now have the Vidar to try it together with. So did the Sylvania meet your expectations?
@@ThomasAndStereo I think they give you a little more detail and balanced sound, but a little too neutral for my taste, the sound is very warm, a lot of bass and deep frequencies, but I like high frequencies more. Any descent tube from General Electric, CBS, Sylvania, Tung-Sol and RCA can achieve great sound for a lot cheaper. I am waiting for a new pair of Sylvanya's coin-base, let me see how those sound.
I have a pair of ProLogue Fives. About 35 watts, with KT88s. They sold out a few months ago. They are stereo amps and I hope to use them to biamp something eventually.
I've always liked the sound from good tube preamplifiers. I've not been one that wants to put up with a tube power amp though, no matter how good it sounds. Chances are it will stay that way for about 2 years or less, then it will be time to at least replace the output stage. I no longer have access to a good tube tester, so it's one of those things where I break out the test equipment and observe what's going on. Sometimes you can get away with a bias adjustment. The latest more sophisticated tube amps adjust the bias dynamically. Give me a solid state amplifier along with a tube preamp, and I'm happy. Next, gotta look into those new LRS speakers from Magnepan.
Sorry for my lack of experience, but with a Freya tube amp if I were using the two XLR outputs to amps that power my right and left speakers, could I then use the "SE OUT" RCAs to send a signal to a powered sub-woofer? And if yes, does the signal output on those "SE OUT" RCAs increase and decrease with the volume knob? I'd like the "volume" of my powered sub to increase / decrease with the volume knob of my preamp. Very informative review, Thank you.
Hi Thomas, great review! I too have stepped into the Schiit...I've recently purchased the Modi 3 DAC to use with my Chromecast Audio streamer. I think it's really good...I have a Musical Fidelity VDACII on my CD Player and there's no comparison, the Modi 3 is superior in every way, so I bought a second one. Very happy with them...($99) btw!
How does this preamp compare to the Holo Audio Serene? Is the Serene significantly better or are they very close? I have the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and am looking for a preamp. Either I change to the Freya+ and the Yggdrasil dac, or keep the Spring and get the Serene preamp.
Interesting video: The discussion of threshold is interesting. I always think of it as a scatter graph of price and quality; we all just move up the price axis to our pain point.
Thomas, thank you so much for your wonderful review. I bought the amp after watching your review, really good after I swap out the tubes. When I was shopping for tubes, I came across a brand from China "Treasure Globe", do you have any experience with those? Are they the "REAL THING" or "REAL STUPID"?
This is the most practical sounding audiophile i heard.
Yes he is.. We just have to change his mind on cables though.
Are you listening in audiophile quality HiFi?
Schiit is good....i haved used schiit mani phono pre amp before...wowww...amazingg...schiit had a good product, no doubt about it
@@kevonmanuel It's very easy to change a rational person's mind when confronted with indisputable evidence. If the OP hasn't heard a difference between exotic cables and excellent, reasonably-priced cables on the various high end systems owned by him or his friends, then an appreciable difference probably doesn't exist. It's quite a simple concept. It seems to me that the "night and day" differences that some people claim to hear with exotic cables MUST be plainly audible to a person of this OP's experience. Some people´s perceived differences between certain cables are much more easily explained using psychological rather than physical phenomena. Occam's razor. I will be a True Believer™ in exotic cables when someone publishes the first properly controlled, scientifically designed double-blind listening test (that is able to be replicated) and which shows a consistent, significant difference in sound. Why hasn't a study like this been done when it is SO easy to set up and not terribly expensive? The answer is plainly obvious to a thinking person. Remember, as in any debate, the skeptics or non believers don't have to prove a point: They are not making any claims. The True Believers™and the manufacturers are afraid of the inevitable results of such a test. The manufacturers have everything to lose. They are very astute marketers and understand consumer psychology. It is not how I would do business but at least no one is doing anything illegal.
You haven't watched many of his videos I take it.
The 2 guys that founded Schiit were the top brains at Theta Digital and Sumo, among other companies. They don't make 'good' components that will blend into the field like Parasound, Emotiva, Rotel, NAD. Their MO is affordable giant killers. Lots of companies say that but Schiit walks the walk
Compare this to PLD2000 and you will get the ideea with Parasound vintage line. 👍
I have one of the Schiit DACS. Outstanding.
Sumo amps where better boat anchors than amplifiers!
Heard an ugly at Hifi show, sounded amazing.
90% - “Once it’s good enough, it comes down to a question of taste”... Truer words in the audiophile world have never been spoken before. So many people will push their opinion on you in forums, but the truth is they are pushing their taste on you chasing the last 10% Fantastic review.
Thomas, great review. Can you provide me with the exact tubes you ended up with ? You mention "I got great results using GE tubes made in Canada. GTA and GTB." I would like to order these as well, but looking for the exact numbers so I too can order. Thanks again.
Schiit now offers the Freya S (no tubes, has passive and active modes) for $599, and the Schiit Freya +, (adds the tube mode) for $899.
I am currently using a music reference rm5 mk3 I purchased for like 350. thirty years ago the best preamp I have ever had but a week ago I isolated it with a 2 inch thick piece of bamboo with sixteen sorbathane feet and it revieled its self wow more detail just beautiful I always liked this preamp but now I love it I wish I knew the difference isolation could bring to my sound system years ago.
Just wanted to thank you, Thomas, for always being the most pragmatic audiophile there is. It was this video that sold me, finally, on the Schiit Freya+ to partner with my Nord Three (dual Purifi 1ET400A) and I couldn't be happier. Even with stock tubes the combination is perfect for me.
Side note: Looking forward to trying a set of GTBs with it too.
Thanks again!
Thomas,, I just bought a Freya Plus preamp based on your recommendation (6/20/2021). It's my first tube gear, was little nervous about handling tubes. But the sound was just glorious and so different from my solid state amp alone. Only been about 30 hours, so the sound should improve if anything. Thanks for your straightforward and practical advice.
Glad you are enjoying it.
It's so refreshing not to have some Schiity intro on a video
LOL!
Thomas, you have just explained to me what is the meaning of "love - hate" relationship!
Great stuff! Keep it up, I really enjoy your sense of humor.
I took the advice on the GE tubes. I bought one of these preamps and used the Tung Sol 6SN7 tubes that came with it. At first I was slightly unimpressed. My other preamp is a fully refreshed and upgraded Carver C-1. The first thing I noticed was that the instruments were better separated with my carver. I then noticed that I heard more detail with the Freya (It's actually a Freya + now). So, I ordered the GE 6SN7 GTB tubes and they did a better job of separating the instruments on my system, than the Tung Sol tubes did. I'm very happy with my purchase even though it cost 100.00 dollars more now.
Tube rolling can be addictive. Glad you are enjoying your system.
Did you replace all 4 tubes with the tung sol 6sn7?
@@ThomasAndStereo Hi Thomas, can you tell me what tubes you ended up with being your choice....I grew up with boxes and boxes of various tubes for amps and TVs... original GEC's etc...would be nice to hear from you
@@Bothtapes nice. It is in the description box.
Thomas, I purchased the Schiit Saga Preamp for $349.00. It replaced a Rogue Audio RP-1 at $1700.00. The Saga is more transparent, dynamic and has better pace, rhythm and timing . My wife and I did a lot of listening to my system with this extremely inexpensive Saga preamp (with a micro processor resistor ladder volume control mind you), and we looked at each other and both agreed that it was way better than good enough and I'm picky about sound. Schitt's the best bang for the buck in a preamp. I heard a pair of their $799.00 Aegir amps run in mono at Axpona 2019, a few days ago with the Schiit Freya, and it sounded great with a digital front end (Yggdrasil) and Salk speakers. To top it off, you get a five (5) year warranty!
Man, thank you, I'm so glad I read this about the Schiit Saga as well, thanks :) I want to pair up a nice high quality preamp with a Crown XLS1502 Drive Core power amp behind it. Some people think that's crazy but I know it is a high resolution Class D power amp and I'm really curious how that combo will sound, especially if its a tube preamp. Here's my latest video, too , enjoy Cheers, Mario th-cam.com/video/iGreY8bUOpE/w-d-xo.html
Oh, very surprised at the Saga.I hear mixed review on it and I should try it one day. I was always interested to give Rogue Audio a try and am impressed that you prefer the Saga over it. I like the 5 year warranty part. It's amazing we live in an age we can get so amazing sound at an affordable price.
I think it should be fine. I had it with many amps and never I felt that it did not pair well.
I too am amazed as a previous owner of a Rogue Perseus tube preamp. I was looking to get an RP-1, but reading up on the Saga and the Freya have me rethinking. I appreciate your comment.
The best, actually helpful, real and memorable audio reviews. You always kill!
One of the very few, honest, easy listening audio reviewers. Thank your favorite deity for Thomas & Stereo!
4:46 "Good enough." That is the real holy grail.
Great honest review Thomas! I had the Freya 2 years ago, bought it, used it for 3 months, tried to like it but at the end it paled in comparison to my Modwright LS100. Passive mode was Ok, Jfet mode was preferred over passive. But 8/10 times I ended up using it in active tube mode. But like you said, its a new type of tube sound, neutral and holographic. The Modwright achieved the same but with much more weight and meatyness to the sound. The Freya sounded quite lean in comparison. My biggest quam about the Freya was the care needed to swap tubes, its so easy to put them in the wrong way and smoke it..
Ah thanks. I have the Modwright LS100 too and yup, there is more meat to the sound. I actually let a friend did a quick AB test between the modwright and Freya, now he owns a $100k+ systems and for a quick listen, the Freya was pretty ok and as you said, leaner. For me, you belong to that 10% of the people who can hear a big difference between the both.
"GOOD enough!" You're talking my language, Thomas! Couldn't agree with you more. Getting that 90+% is enough for me. May have to check this out. Nice review!
Thanks, there is a 15 day return policy but check if u have to pay shipping.
Schiit Audio gear is good enough for me too. Their Freya preamp mated to a pair of their new Aegir amps, run in mono sounded great at Axpona last week.
@@groovediggers2761 Do your Aegir's hum and buzz up close?
@@ThomasAndStereo Thomas, How did you end up with a left handed Freya+? Tubes on the left. I want one!
Also, do you know if a single Aegir will drive a set of Elac UB52's?
@@markwasilow2757 Do they have him and buzz?? Do they??
Hello Thomas,
I love you reviews. Very straight forward. No audiophile fluff, well maybe very little. All my audio life I've owned SS. Tubes never interested me. But curiosty killed this SS cat. I was using a Marantz PM8804 as a preamp after I retired my home theater for a two channel system. I gifted the Marantz to my sister along with a set of Elac UB5 speakers. Yes I love her. I'm currently using a Wyred 4 Sound rig. I have the DAC2_DSDse and a set of SX1000 monoblocks, driving the Pioneer S-1ex speakers. I love the control of the bass, and the speed of the class D amps, but I find myself wanting a deeper sound stage. Since the DAC has a volume control, I don't use a preamp. And now that I purchased a turntable I need the preamp. With it's great reviews, and great price, I ordered the Freya+. I was going to go all in with a Primaluna pre, but decided on trying the Freya. Tube rolling also interest me. What is a good resource to learn a little about differences in individual tubes sound? Thanks again Thomas for your informative reviews and your honesty. Hope to start rolling soon. Oh and I ordered the Mani phono preamp too.
CHEER!!!
Glenn
Congrats! This youtube channel spent a lot of time on it. He made a few videos.
th-cam.com/video/NtL4jIEgfSc/w-d-xo.html
It should sound like Schiit. Economist call it "diminishing returns" when you pay a lot more for just a little bit better. In high end audio equipment, diminishing returns is the rule. There is NOTHING that costs 3X more and sounds 4X better.
True. One day in a video soon, I will present a different point of view. As all my videos, I will try to give the viewer something to think about.
I used black glass Ken-Rad VT231’s in the gain position, CBS/Hytron 5692’s in buffers. WOW.smooth with GREAT bass. Better than my ARCSP6B, almost as good as my CarySLP05. I could happily live with my Freya+ forever
This is not a review unit sent to me, I bought it used with my own money.
I forgot to mention, this tube amp does have microphonic issues, some tubes we tried sounded microphonic.
I got great results using GE tubes made in Canada. GTA and GTB. (That is all that is written on it, no idea what they are)
The Freya has the new sound, lean and clean so we found good match with tubes that are 'meaty' sounding.
Hi Thomas the GTA has a faster startup time, GTB slower controlled for longevity, no sonic difference, hope this helps
Do you think a warm, laid back, SPONGY and yes, colored tone is achievable with this preamp with the right tubes, Thomas???
@@keeferdog5617 Oh, good question, my friend never tried to tune it that way, I have to ask him. I think his rule is that neutral sounding gear is easier to tune it to color sounding. While color sounding gear is harder to fine tune it to neutral.
Thomas & Stereo Sure, good point. That makes sense. Thanks for the quick reply.
I’m looking for a good, inexpensive tube preamp to pair with a rather forward amp (Emotiva) and an extended, dare I say bright Focal (al/mag tweet) speakers. So you see the need for a pre to take the edge off the high end (if possible- I know...lose the high gain, forward amp)
Always look forward to seeing your vids. Thanks
@@keeferdog5617 Oh, Focal. My favorite bright speaker. I had the Emotiva XPA5 before and those amps are very clear so if you add a freya in, that also is very clear, then you might need to change the tubes to 'roll off' tubes if it sounds too bright. You see, the older tubes will 'round' off the edges but the newer tubes don't necessary do that.
I wish every single audio review was in this style. Perfect Thomas.
Thanks for the compliment Philip.
@@ThomasAndStereo How come the tubes and the controls in the video are sometimes on the left side of the chassis and other times they are on the right?
@@phoebus The selfie camera on my phone flips things around.
@@ThomasAndStereo I thought it was probably a image flipping thing happening. Was the pre amp you reviewed the Freya or the Freya +?
@@phoebus Freya, first gen.
Schiit does not aim to provide a super "tubey" sound like you get from traditional romantic amps. They are also NOT aiming for cost-is-no-object. Tube rolling can either make it more of what it is (Russian NOS) or more romantic (Mullard, for ex) to tailor to a different taste. COSTLY tube amps usually come with costly tubes. No way to meet a price point. The bottom line is that the amp provides a GREAT level of performance and quality for the money. The guys at Schiit audio designed amps like the andromeda, which can power the 2 ohm Apogee Scintilla. They KNOW how to make great products.
To make it a boutique amp they just need 4 things:
1. CNC milled case
2. More costly tubes
3. Boutique-friendly name. Maybe a French moniker like "Merde" instead.
4. A Penny & Giles heavy duty volume potentiometer.
And maybe a pointless backlit VU meter.
Haha, love the 'Merde' joke. That is so funny. Well said what you wrote and yup, 100% true.
Thomas, I hate to ask but can you be more specific about which tubes you were talking about, GE GTA & GE GTB are the same no? Reason i ask is i just ordered the Freya and selected the Russian 6N8S. Are the 6SN7 better performers? I ordered the Freya Saturday so they will be looking over the orders from the weekend on Monday and I was hoping to be able to catch the order before it is filled to change the tubes so i would greatly appreciate your comments. Thanks, Don
Yes they are the same but I think one warms up faster than the other, I remember someone mentioning the difference in the comments. I don't now if the 6N8s will be better as I never tried those. How you enjoy the amp, sorry I don't know enough to help.
Personaly im having problems categorising this unit as a preamp. Except the - nicely done - attenuator and a rather limtied array of in and outs
its just a selectable bufferstage (JFet or valves) to massage the input signal.
According to the late Julian Hirsch, the most expensive component of speakers is the cabinet. But I think in today's market it's the perceived value like anything else.
Your logic is inescapable. Mr. Spock would be proud.
Spock said "Impressive", Darth Vader said "Impressive".
I love the fact that they changed the manuals for their high end gear. So hilarious. Appeasing the wealthy audiophiles 😂
I bought mine almost a year ago, and until tonight I have the chance to open the box. We'll see what happens.
Wow, how did you resist? You have better discipline than me
@@herrtrigger7220 I honestly don’t know... I was really busy with work and when I got home every night I thought about that box, every single night. Until the day of the comment above... and I have not stopped using it ever since, such a great piece! It just makes everything sound better and my Heresys love it.
I have an Audio Music RT-2 preamp. It’s stunning.
Thanks Thomas. The million dollar question is: what tubes are you using over the original? 😅
I second that, or ditto or yeah, please tell us what are the different tubes that you are using?
Thank you for another honest informative video.
Apparently he uses the GE 6SN7GTA or the GE 6SN7GTB.
It is in the description and I have to admit I missed it myself.
Yeah how can you tease like this😱
I'm not in the market for a preamp. Yet, the suspense is killing me ;)
I have a RME DAC, I use it as a pre-amp, love it. Very neutral, but has a built in EQ and a couple ways to subtly change the sound. I would lick to maybe add some color to music sometime, I figure a tube pre-amp is a good way to do it.
What an honest and insightful review . Surprising in this day and age when better is measured by price . My only complaint is not informing us as to name of his upgraded tubes as I am a tube guy !
Great video Thomas. Just in time Im getting my Freya and Aegir amps soon!!
2x Aegir or just the one? Curious as to how much power those badboys consume
a pair of course to run my 88db efficient speakers
@@Dieselmateo The power bill!!!!
So now you can try the new Freya+ and discover it outperforms or equal your x5 more expensive tube preamps ^^
We are talking -20dB noise level improvement..
Thomas, your mention of cable/cable-wars reminded me how much I'm still looking forward to your video on how your friend made the "high-end" cables!!! Hope you haven't given up on that. Great video.
Ah, that one. Everytime I mention about cables, people go to war in my comment section! I am breaking in a pair right now actually and it's one of the best speaker cable I have used. I can stop my search for speaker cables at this point. Just google on lItz cable.
@@ThomasAndStereo that's almost a teaser... is there a particular brand you've come to enjoy or did you make a DIY cable.. that's "good enough and cheap!"
For me cables is system dependant. Meaning if the setup is too bright, I would use cables that are not to balance it out. So in that sense, there is no best cable. These DIY cables are expensive because LITZ cables are expensive to start with. Although I have experience the differences in cables, I usually tell people don't worry too much about it. Unless your system has a significant problem and you need cables to adjust it, I usually tell people just don't concern yourself with it as the changes is very subtle and not always for the better.
Thomas & Stereo very good point. appreciate that sentiment/perspective.
Now we're talking! This thing was made for me!
I sense a resentment of new equipment that out performs significantly more expensive audio equipment. I do not subscribe to the notion that you always get what you pay for. What determines the sound quality is how well the engineers designed the product regardless of the price and the company behind them. If some engineering wizzard discovers a better, new way (the" secret sauce" as they say in the software industry) to design and build these better sounding components (preamps, amps, phono sectiojns, DACS speakers that cost a fraction of the price of "some inferior, more expensive equipment" then we all benefit. I personally do not have the ability to purchase two or three preamps like your $5K and $10K pieces. I don't think most of the people who buy the Freya will want to be switching out tubes and I don't think the manufacturer designed the preamp expecting that one would do hundreds of tube swaps just to see what sounded "warmer" or "sharper" or "tighter" etc., all very subjective . I do not have multiple four wheel sets with different tires that I change weekly on my car to see if one set of tires is noisier, smoother, handles better at high speeds while cornering etc., etc., This is what some of these reviews are beginning to sound like.
Pick a system of components that deliver 90-95% of the audio benefit at a fraction of the cost of the "best sounding equipment" and live with and be happy with your great sounding system. But some people are never satisfied and are always looking for something better regardless of the cost. Take the extra $$ saved and attend more live concerts!
Lots of stuff I agree with what you said. Some I don't but it is normal that we all have different opinions. No resentment, it's a good thing for everyone to have a gear that performs well at a budget price. Just pissed off that I have to pay a lot more to get a bit better.
The point of diminishing returns is fairly low. I bought a Yamaha C5E Conservatory Grand Piano many years ago because it was 95% of a Steinway Model B for less than 1/2 the price. As you know there are hundreds of audio system combinations that will deliver very good sound but the single most important factor in this discussion is the listening room shape and size and it's associated acoustics. An audio engineer that I knew, used to always say that he would take a good sounding audio system in a outstanding listening room over an outstanding audio system in a mediocre listening room.
@@ranadeau Yes, the room. That is what I learned this year working on my room. I would do the same as your audio engineer friend.
ranadeau The reason you get what you pay for is in development time - and expertise. Like good food, good designs take time and expertise. Many manufacturers rush products to the market without taking the necessary to to tweak the circuit or carefully layout the circuit board. Circuits aren’t circuits, measurements aren’t measurements, and engineers aren’t engineers.
You don't always get what you pay for in audio, and more expensive doesn't always mean better.
So much of the high end ticket price is attached to the brand, exclusivity, over-engineered and elaborate casing etc.
In this case the Schiit is focusing on the quality of the circuit and the primary components, so of course it can compete with things costing far more.
The fact that Schiit change their mantra in different manuals merely reflects an understanding of audiophile gullibility ;)
Well, I have been looking for stuff that will perform above it's price point and so far I have not been able to find a lot of gear that can do it. If you have a few examples, please share. When I compare gear, it has to be in the same category else the comparison is not fair. I love the Freya but at the same time, I understand it's limitation when compare to something higher end in the same category. That limitation is insignificant for many people but not all people. My point is I truly am blown away by what modern budget gear can do but at the same time, I want to acknowledge there is still a difference when compared to higher end gear.
I bet it would would sound great on rp600m for a budget set up 2.0 and a good power amp
Hi Thomas, thanks for this review and I will buy this pre-amp because you hated it so much. How about their new Class A Power Amp "Aegir" ? Can you do a review on it ? You know, most of us can only afford "Good Enough" LoFi Gears.
Thanks Tom. They have a return policy so if you don't like it, you can always return it. I never tried their Aegir. The problem is that if I ask for a review sample, I don't feel as 'free' to say whatever I want as I would be if I bought it myself and review it. If I don't like it, I usually just return it without reviewing it.
I would make a MU Metall schielding of the power transformer against magnetic radiation.
Did this on my NAD M51 and C 510 and its a great investment.
If I can do all amazing stuff like that, I would modify all my gear.
Wow! 137k views on a preamp video, that's lovely.
I like the Concept of the Freya, I want to wind up with Martin Logan EM ESLs and the Freya to recapture the experience of Carver Amazing Loud Speakers, and Carver Silver 7 amps I heard 35 years ago.
I have it, and absolutely love it. running through 2 vidars bridged. I love it.
I recently bought the Elac 6.2 speakers myself.
Haven't decided on which preamp/power amp to buy yet, but Schiit looks like good value for money.
Schiit is definitely good value for the money. The only question is if their sound signature is to your liking or not.
I thought from the title that it was click bait, till I saw it was by Thomas, so I watched, great video again.
I really enjoy your videos Thomas ! Keep up with the great content !
BTW, you just convinced me to go with the Freya+ as my next preamp to replace a (great) solid state from Canada. :)
If you have the budget, you should wait for my Doge 8 review coming in a few months, it is truly the next level up. Thanks. They have no stock now so that is why I am holding back the review.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks Thomas for the reply. I'll definitely follow your advice and wait for the review of the Doge 8 ! I am not in a rush...
@@ThomasAndStereo I am looking for a great tube preamp with balanced input and output. My first choice was the Primaluna EVO 400, but difficult to find in Tokyo... :(
Hi Thomas,
Do you believe that the Valhalla 2 would work as good as the Freya + using upgraded Tubes?
I want to experiment with a tube preamp for my system and I like the compactness that the VALHALLA 2 offers, plus it is less expensive.
I am really picky when it comes to being specific. Just because the big brother sounds good does not mean the lower end model will too. So I have no idea.
Hi Thomas, Interesting videos!!
Do you prefer the Schiit Freya over the Primaluna you’ve tested or vice versa? Any major differences (except one being a preamp vs integrated ofc)
Thanks
Christian
It's hard to compare because my Freya was hooked up to a poweramp moon w5.3 and the whole presentation is silky smooth. The Primaluna cannot keep up but it's not a fair comparison as just my w5.3 alone is more than double the price of the Prima Luna.
A little trick that I've developed over the years with tubes is that if you coat the prongs with a bit of silicone grease with a cotton swab. It helps to keep the socket lubricated so they go in and out more easily and it resolves a lot of the conductivity issues with the sockets. Reducing noise rather a lot more than you'd think it should.
That sounds interesting. will try.
Better option would be dielectric grease. Available at any auto parts store. Much more conducting than silicon
@@pauls2099 which is a form of silicon grease
Audible or just a nice idea?
@@pauls2099 don't use normal dielectric or silicone grease. I failed to mention this: the normal stuff plasticizes over time and loses its conductivity. Becoming an insulator instead of a conductor. The one I've used for years is called, ahem, Super Lube. It doesn't plasticize like the others.
I hate that I love your reviews
Nice :)
I have the freya and a Cary SLP 98P preamp. The Cary blows the schiit away, no contest. But, I bought the freya mostly for it's remote and use it with a two watt tube amp. NOS Brimar tubes sound the best, although Sylvania NOS from the '50s sound nice. I agree that you get what you pay for. It's great for $700. It doesn't compare to a high end tube preamp like my Cary no matter how good the tubes are. I am a tube roller and am very familiar with all types of tubes having played electric guitar for 50 years. The best tubes being made today are being made in China. Shuguang black treasure tubes are fantastic.
Then you fall in that 10% of the people who i mentioned that can hear a big difference. i get you 100%. i have some shuguang anniversary tubes too, strangely, i never used it on the freya, i should give it a try someday
Thomas. You help me make my mind on selecting the Freya+ it was going to be the Freya+ or the new Rotel 1590 mk2. seies unfortunately cannot find any of the two. What else would you suggest for a pre amp and Dac in that price range . Thank you your reviews are great ! .
Hi Thomas.
Great review!
I visited my friend with a (good enough) jbl sound bar with a sub that costs 1/15 !! of my system and I asked my self the same question, is my system that costs 15 times more worth the price difference? If I will ask 100 people on the street I guess that 80% or 90% will say its not :))
I dont want to get in to tubes same as you dont want to get into power cables. Its "too much" for me :)
Thanks Thomas for this video. Now, could you please share the “best” tubes for this piece you have chosen?
Sure. It's in the description and first pin video.
Hi Thomas another great review. So, two GTBs and two GTAs? Do you have a reliable source that tests for microphonics?
I have owned this preamp for over a year now. Run it in passive mode (bypass the tube gain stage) and it sounds incredible. The fewer electronics you have in your signal path, the purer and sweeter the sound. The volume control on this preamp is exceptional.
Thanks Ron, perhaps I should give it a try in passive mode, I never did and many say it's pretty good.
No es verdad . Con tubo suena mejor
I can only give my Freya good reviews. Ive got a complete Schiit System a Freya, Gungnir and 2 x Vidars running through a set of Wilson Watt Puppy 7 speakers. The sounds is amazing. In comparison, I also have a Mark Levinson system where the price comparison is probably 8 x the cost of the Schiit System but can barely tell the difference between the two. Granted the Mark Levinson system is nearly 20 years old but damn, the Schitt system does well for its price point. Im all for Schiit, they have done a good job!
Wow, that is quite an unusual setup! Wilson puppy with entry level priced gear. However, I get what you mean and glad you are enjoying your current setup. I don't know what kind of music you listen to but I wonder if the difference between the budget and high end will show up more in complexe music such as classical music where you need very good control and dynamic range.
I just a vidar yesterday and can't wait to try it.
@@ThomasAndStereo Yes it is a unique pairing. The Schiit vs Levinson system seems to perform equally when playing a wide range of music. I enjoy a lot of contemporary classical music. I am still yet to pick a complex piece where the Levinson system sounds bigger and more revealing. I can certainly say though that the 2 x Vidars with balanced interconnects is significantly more impressive than a single Vidar. Ill be interested to hear what you think of it. Enjoy and keep up the great videos. I wish I had friends with big impressive systems as you do!
Since we're talking about ~$1k preamps here, could you do a review of the Emotiva XSP-1?
Really good honest review.
Hi Thomas, very informative as ever thank you. When you get a chance may I request you do some reviews of DACs. Am looking for more reliable reviews for RME ADI 2 DAC and Mytek DACs. Would be very thankful cheers.
lol I ady bought and wait for RME ADI-2
great video,i am a sound system lover and i have come to the realization that to be an audiophile you need a fat wallet.presently my system i have a vintage Marantz 2325 reciever,a pair of Kenwood Mv-50 speakers and a Boston Acoustic powered subwoofer,it sounds great on a low budget.Hope one day i can experience your kind of sound
I like the audio hobby and don’t have a ‘fat wallet’. I get my satisfaction by making a good sound result from little money.
You can be an audiophile with no sound system at all. P.S. just bought Freya+ and two mono Aegirs.
I,ve been around and owned high end amps preamps and great speakers. If there is no treble or bass controls i,m not interested. I adjust to get cymbals sounding right and the bass sounding right.
Schiit also makes the Loki equalizer, it's not bad.
Enjoyed this one very much. Am considering one of their headphone amps after watching.
Thanks, never tried their headphone amp so I don't know if they are any good.
My favourite 6SN7 tubes are the Sylvania 6SN7GTA (50’s) and the Pope 6SN7GT. They are very nice.
The Sylvania has really airy highs and sweet mids whilst the Pope is even smoother.
It depends on what kind of Sylvania 6SN7's !!!!........and the tube that does the job in a given set-up....
Over 6O years living with tubes .....it's just like wine , the one you choose to go with the menu ....it's all about harmony.
12SX7GT is the better tube............very linear on low voltages........but needs 12.6 volt on the heater. ( made for applications on low voltage , like 36 volt generators in the B17 flying fortress in WW2 )
Hey Thomas, did you know there is a new Freya + now that surpasses the original Freya? Bet you really hate the Freya now. :)
Good listening.
Lol. Darn Freya!!
I share your thoughts about the 'threshold', I assume you refer to the realm of diminishing returns. And then, you make sure to show us the cool Cardas power cord going into the Freya- which costs more than the Freya.
Best reviewer on the internet.
Mike Gadoury I agree, although Ron @newrecordday is also very creative. I like both of them.
Very interesting and honest. Excuse my ignorance, but why is a preamp so important and expensive, if it only switches inputs and volume potentiometer, it should be transparent. Isn't it better to bypass it from the dac straight to powered amp or speakers? It should be the amp with the tubes to give the character, not the preamp, shouldn't it?
I would not know from a engineer point of view. What I do know is from my experience, adding a preamp makes the system sound better. I have tried many decent dacs ($4k cdn) plugging it directly to the power amp and it does not sound as good as having a good preamp in the chain.
Thomas: Great clickbait title!
I like your New/Old sound definition.
Wish you could provide info on the tubes you used. Ask your buddy for us :-)
Thanks, i explained a bit more in detail old sound in the prima luna video. I will check with my friend if he knows more. Right now, all I know is GE made in Canada. GTA tubes 6sN7.
Thanks for the video, but I do wish someone would actually show how a pre-amp operates with other components, not just talking about it, but showing how it is integrated into a system, we're not all that knowledgeable about these type of things !
Hey Thomas, I love your channel! What solid state preamps do you consider better(more holographic) than this Schiit Freya? Moon preamps?
Hmm, depends on your budget. I remember my mcintosh C47 could do it. My burmester (forgot the model), the rest I will have to go check my list but most of them were not in the same price category. Depends of course on price and that is why I say the Freya can do it at such a low price.
I have the Freya+ and it came with JJ tubes which sound good. I also have GE 6SN7GTA but I liked the Sylvania GTB’s from the minute I put them in, no question. .
I'm with with you Thomas. I bought Schiit Modi 2U dac back to the day. I was disappointed by the sound quality, so I asked them if I need an audiophile grade usb cable. Schiit immediately assured me that the cheapest usb cable will do the same and any usb noise filter is bs. However, when I checked their product page, they were selling an expensive PSTY usb cable which claimed to have a thicker than normal power line and silver plated data lines. I guess this is not a normal usb cable at all in contrast to what they'd told me. Most stupid of all, Schiit was selling their own expensive audiophile WYRD usb noise filter when they said all filters are bs.
My conclusion is: This Schiit company is a typical shit salesman which would say anything as long as people will be pleased and then buy their products.
Ps: I watched a lot of your videos recently. You are such an open minded, reasonable and objective reviewer. Pls keep on the good works and thanks for another wonderful review.👍
Really appreciate your support. I did not know they say those stuff, oh well. I am curious about their high end Dac though, there seems to be lots of good feedback on it. Good to know about the cheap dacs, I guess I will skip trying those then.
@@ThomasAndStereo The Modi 2U dac got a lot of positive critics too. When it comes to sound, it's really something subjective so you could still try any of their products and tell people what you think. May be I'm the one who have problem who knows. My problem is the harshness of the sound and the weak mid-range.
Cheers.
@@SpikeoutBattleStreet Ah, the harshness of the sound, it's actually one of my talking point comparing entry level and high end dacs. One day I will make a video on Dacs.
@@ThomasAndStereo nah even my emu 1212m internal soundcard killed the bifrost DS and the modi multibit ... also my friend bought an apogee duet 2 sound card and sold the modi multibit on the spot.. i also had problem with the gungnir..
i had many production problems with schiit products.. no wonder they measure like shit. my magni is noisy as hell with the knob glitchy..
i dont agree at all that you cant find low cost product that beat higher product.. its possible since when you diy your own you can do it fairly cheap..
699$ and cant have a solid board common... this is schiit... i will never buy any schiit product again..
ah, if you look at my past video, there are 2 exception to my statement. The first one is DIY. The 2nd one is a no name brand where a mad scientist builds something in his basement. My statement only applies to brand names. I forgot to mention that but I did in my past video. The soundcard is interesting, I have one and it's pretty good but I still hear a gap against higher end gear. Just never heard your sound card.
Of course all tube preamps will improve the sound with NOS tubes. And often I think people discount the sound of a tube product when its being limited in its capabilities because of the stock tubes that most manufactures use. Its understandable because as a manufacture has to buy tubes for their units in quantity and quality test those tubes which are bond to get a certain rejection rate which also has to be figured into their price of their products. So in otherwords never discount the sound quality of a tube product until you have had the chance to try better NOS tubes. It is nice to see budget products of this quality and seems like a sound design. Of course most high end products are hard wired but its understandable that would be impractical on a budget piece. Plus higher end products use much better quality caps and resistors. So of course it needs to be judged against higher end products to give you an idea of its weakness's. But I would certainly be interested in hearing it.
Did your friend favour the freya over his reference Bryston 1B?
This is what my friend told me
"Freya is brighter, faster, more accurate, can sound harsh on some unselected tubes, but also can be fine tune to higher-end results.
Bryston 1B is a fixed power cord unit. Cannot tune the sound by swapping cable. It has a vintage tube character, a little dark, a bit slow but very musical, would lack of "hyper" details when compared to today reference standard. Can be a good choice if someone lean towards the un-audiophine type of recording.
"
Thomas & Stereo Thanks for this. I own the Bryston 1B and was looking for the Freya to replace it. The Bryston is over 30 years old now so something newer would be the jolt my system needs. Not looking for a brighter character in my system so I might checkout one of the Prima Luna pre amps.
My advice to those freaking about getting good tubes. Go to Brent Jessee and order Sylvania from the 60’s- lots of sparkle, $70 a matched pair. The Baldwin rubes at $30 apiece are good also. Your Freyawill sound great with this. You can spend a little more and get 1950’s GT’s, especially the 6SN7 GT W military types for not too much more. I like the WW2 VT-231 types, but these are $300 per matched pair and up. All of these tubes will sound better and last longer than new production tubes in general.
Hi Thomas, I got my Schiit Freya +(the new version) 2 weeks ago and I've been doing some tube rolling.
It came with stock Tung-Sol made in Russia, but I got some extra tubes to try and see the difference.
I bought RCA, which seen great but a little brighter, I also bought Tung-Sol from the 1950's made in USA and the sound is more balanced that the RCA.
Now I am waiting for the more expoensive and sought after Sylvania 6sn7GT from 1952 (Nick named big boys).
I like the older tubes better and I compare this preamp to my friend's Conrad Johnson and Audio Research, which are way more expensive and the Freya + sound cleaner and has more of a 3-D sound that the more expensive ones. I also bought the Schiit mani as a phono preamp.
Schiit has comed to embarrass companies making way more expensive gear!
This tube preamp is really clean sounding, I don't understand when people mention noise or microphonics, there's zero noise through my speakers even with the older tubes.
People also mentions tape hiss coming from cassettes and reel to reels, I have zero of that.
It could be that I am using high-end decks, high quality tape and I also have a power conditioner!
Glad that the Freya is really working out for you. I really like it too and I now have the Vidar to try it together with. So did the Sylvania meet your expectations?
@@ThomasAndStereo I think they give you a little more detail and balanced sound, but a little too neutral for my taste, the sound is very warm, a lot of bass and deep frequencies, but I like high frequencies more. Any descent tube from General Electric, CBS, Sylvania, Tung-Sol and RCA can achieve great sound for a lot cheaper. I am waiting for a new pair of Sylvanya's coin-base, let me see how those sound.
What power conditioner and dac do you have?
So of course I wait until the price goes up $200 before I buy one!
I own a Freya, driven by a Schiit Gungnir and a pair of Prima Luna amps provide power to KEF LS50s. For me, this system is " good enough ". LOL
lol, i think your front end is very nice.
That's pretty killer system, no matter what anyone says.
Hi Richard, what Prima Luna amps are you using
I have a pair of ProLogue Fives. About 35 watts, with KT88s. They sold out a few months ago. They are stereo amps and I hope to use them to biamp something eventually.
Hi everyone. I have a Sony N80es Powe amp and I'm thinking if this preamp will be a good match? Cheers!
I've always liked the sound from good tube preamplifiers. I've not been one that wants to put up with a tube power amp though, no matter how good it sounds. Chances are it will stay that way for about 2 years or less, then it will be time to at least replace the output stage. I no longer have access to a good tube tester, so it's one of those things where I break out the test equipment and observe what's going on. Sometimes you can get away with a bias adjustment. The latest more sophisticated tube amps adjust the bias dynamically.
Give me a solid state amplifier along with a tube preamp, and I'm happy. Next, gotta look into those new LRS speakers from Magnepan.
Well, if I use a tube setup, then I usually keep the preamp tube and power amp solid state. Tubes are really easy to maintain these days.
I agree.
The only time I personally use a tube power section is in guitar amps.
Will this make for a good preamp witha combo like the Galion TS A75 amplifier/Galion Voyager TL speakers?
Thanks Thomas, great review.
Sorry for my lack of experience, but with a Freya tube amp if I were using the two XLR outputs to amps that power my right and left speakers, could I then use the "SE OUT" RCAs to send a signal to a powered sub-woofer? And if yes, does the signal output on those "SE OUT" RCAs increase and decrease with the volume knob? I'd like the "volume" of my powered sub to increase / decrease with the volume knob of my preamp. Very informative review, Thank you.
Yes it can and it does increase and decrease with the volume.
Thanks for the insight, since I have had the opportunity to do any comparisons. Great job, really enjoy your videos.
Why not tell us which replacement tubes you settled on? I would buy them pronto.
it is in the description.
Great video thanks! I really appreciate your honesty in your videos.
Great value high performing Hifi is readily available now but many brands are trying to milk customers of cash.
Hi Thomas, great review! I too have stepped into the Schiit...I've recently purchased the Modi 3 DAC to use with my Chromecast Audio streamer. I think it's really good...I have a Musical Fidelity VDACII on my CD Player and there's no comparison, the Modi 3 is superior in every way, so I bought a second one. Very happy with them...($99) btw!
Nice.I had some musical Fidelity gear in the past and really liked them too. Never tried the entry level dac from Schiit though.
Mr. T
Consider going back to your old background.
It's Vintage...
Xxx
This is the most entertaining, yet serious review, thank you!
How does this preamp compare to the Holo Audio Serene? Is the Serene significantly better or are they very close? I have the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and am looking for a preamp. Either I change to the Freya+ and the Yggdrasil dac, or keep the Spring and get the Serene preamp.
Interesting video:
The discussion of threshold is interesting.
I always think of it as a scatter graph of price and quality; we all just move up the price axis to our pain point.
Hello, the GE 6SN7GTB on the right, and the GE 6SN7GTA on the left side? Thank you. Peter
Dear Thomas, a review between a Freya and a ps audio stellar? I am very curious. thanks and keep it up!
Thomas, thank you so much for your wonderful review. I bought the amp after watching your review, really good after I swap out the tubes. When I was shopping for tubes, I came across a brand from China "Treasure Globe", do you have any experience with those? Are they the "REAL THING" or "REAL STUPID"?
Thanks Eddie. I never heard of that brand so I don't know. Sorry.
please do a PS stellar review
Thomas, in your experimentation with tube rolling on this unit, which tubes did you like the best? And, do you have a 2nd best tube opinion? Thanks.
I love Freya, it's the name of my girlfriend hehehe.....The Schitt def was an option for the future.