61 Impala After the Dip Update: Whats Next????
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- The 61 Impala is back from being dipped (acid dipped) at Metal Works Paint and Rust Removal in Eugene OR. Whats next you may ask??? Travis Sylvester breaks it all down for you. From What it looked like when we got it back to scuffing and primer we will use. He also goes over some of the metal work that will need to be done after it is primed. We also dropped some tips on what to look for is you take your car to a shop. Keep on watching because we plan to show you everything on this full build. Thanks for watching and please don't forget to share our channel with someone!!
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Metal Works Paint and Rust Removal Eugene, OR
metaldipping.com - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
How refreshing to hear a professional shop finally point out that the warping created by “media” blasting is not because of the heat supposedly generated but actually by the “peening” of the surface by the sand or glass particles striking the surface. This process has been specified by engineers for decades to stress relieve welded or formed metal parts. So using cooling water during the blasting will not prevent warping. Steel has to have a color change (dull red,red,cherry red,white hot all ancient forger terms) created by added heat changing the molecular structure of the material. Also you are so correct about the sand or glass used during blasting constantly falling or blowing out of crevices in the car greatly affecting the painting process. I worked diligently during my rotisserie restoration of my Mustang to remove it, but 5 years later it is still falling out. Thanks for the professional approach you use in all your projects and sharing your knowledge with all of us DIY enthusiasts.
Thank you. We have one specifically on blasting you would like
I've done multiple builds with dipping the shell and also all of the panels - never used acid though. My 'favourite' at the moment is the REDI-STRIP process that uses an electrolytic process to remove the rust - and achieves a similar outcome to Metal Works achieve without using acid. My approach after the dipping (and ensuring ALL areas are flushed//neutralised) is to use a pressure pot with a suitable long extension to spray a suitable paint up into the cavities that are now bare metal. Then finally cavity wax after the topcoat is all finished (NEVER before). HA - and yes - you can almost guarantee - somewhere - a piece of sand will come back out of somewhere and cause a problem if you used sandblasting (NEVER use sand - use a 'safe' media if you are going to mead blast) - been there done that and had sand come out into a topcoat - HA. Two problems when dipping a shell etc - whether it be an acid or electrolytic process - 1) is ensuring that ALL the chemicals are flushed//neutralised, and 2) getting paint coverage on all the box//cavity sections. And uniformed people whine about dipping now leaving bare metal in the box//cavity sections, HA - nearly all early cars had no paint in those areas from the day they were manufactured (later cars dipped using EDP are a different animal) and therefore if you spend the time and do a good job of getting paint inside those box//cavity sections, you have done better than the factory did when the car was built. Pull the roof skin off a 66 Mustang or similar area vehicle and you will be amazed at the amount of rust hiding on those bare metal surfaces. There are a few facilities that can offer EDP after dip stripping a car, unfortunately none near me here in AUSTRALIA, but I have seen that offered in the USA and UK and worth looking into. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
Thank you very much 👊🏻👌🏻👍🏻
This is going to awesome.
Looking forward to the following videos
Thank you!
Digging this weekly videos great way to start the weekend. Coffee and phone in hand for, Saturday morning with Sylvester. As always you guys are killing it. Looking forward to the build and the steps you take to get it there
Thank you brother 👊🏻
Love Metalworks. I've taken several body parts to them and been totally satisfied with the results. Nothing like starting with clean metal
Yes, I definitely highly recommend them myself
Love your work Travis, Looking forward to this build it’s going to be epic 👍👍🇳🇿
Thank you!!
Best channel on TH-cam! I didn’t know about that primer thank you for the tip!
Glad to help!
Looking forward to this build
👊🏻👍🏻🤘🏻🙌🏻
Awesome informative content Travis, cant agreed more about the dipping process , it gives such an honest ground zero to begin the build from. Im a convert to the PPG vp2050 , its a great product to work with in everyway. Look forwards to seeing this build come along!
Thank you very much
I'm glad I bought a rust free Cal. stang back in 78.
Hi Travis. I did a 55 chevy in the late 90's and had it dipped. We scuffed it and epoxy primed it the day after we got it back. It took a couple years to finish it , but it turned out beautiful. About 4 years after it was painted , it started to want to lift paint at a lot of the overlapping seams that were spot welded together like in the gutters.
After doing research , we found out that a proper dipping process involves either dipping it , or a pressure washing process with phosphate to neutralize the acid it was initially dipped in. The customer handled the dipping part. It was new to us , and we didn't know about the phosphate thing.
It only makes sense that the backsides of all the panels you cant paint are going to rust again after dipping...and in some parts that were galvanized...like rockers , are going to have lost protection they once had. I'm curious what your take is on this? Keep up the good work man....
Thank you. Yes I agree. We were very picky on who we chose he has been dipping cars for many years. This guy neutralizes everything very well. As for inside the rockers 3M sales something that you can spray inside of the cavities. 👍🏻
Great video...thanks for all the information.
Our pleasure!
NICE!!!!' Gonna be a great series👌🏽💪🏽🔥🔥
Thank you
Love the content thanks for the in depth process.
Thank you
Great advice. Just brought in a 57 TR3 that was dipped at Metalworks. So pleased w the state of their finished product. I prefer CRE-321 epoxy because it’s half the price of the Vibrance end of PPGs lineup yet is literally the same product 😎
I agree on the 100% I use CRE when I cannot get 2050. 2050 is a tad thicker
Really amazing and useful.
Thank you Greg
Nice , cool 61
Thank you!
Love it!
Thank you
Thank you for the video I really appreciate it New York
Glad you enjoyed it!
very good works sir..keep it up
Thank you
Ok first video of yours I've seen, decided to like and subscribe. Thank you for taking time to film, edit and post this video.
Thank you very much we appreciate it
Never heard on youtube or elsewhere saying, that sandblasting warps metal not because of heat. You are the first person and I 100 perc agree. There is a heat when you target to one spot for 10s. In reality, sharp sand particle hits metal and opens small cavity. The edges of that cavity bend to all direction. And makes outer metal layer wider that other side. This process forces metal to warp, unless there is a lot of edges, curves and stuff like that on the part. In this case force created in metal surface is not enough to bend metal.
I'll never sand blast another car. I will only have them do stuff that is very structured, like jams, dash, firewall, floor pan. I had a sand blaster ruin a good hood and trunk. Never again
I would surmise that the sandblasting can stretch the metal. Years back when I was attending automotive machine shop at the local community college, the instructor bead blasted some pistons for an outboard engine for his boat and he had to sand them down somewhat to get them to fit with proper clearance. He said that the bead blasting most likely stretched the aluminum and increased the size of the piston to where the fit was too tight. Food for thought.
Yes sir you give a lot of information here that will accomplish an education to people as to what they can do to head off problems when it comes to this type of work. A professional shop with a good reputation will be forth coming with their work and of course will get the price that they deserve as you well know. Being up front with a customer and educating them as to the involvement there is to taking a car down to this state and rebuilding it to a point of where it was when it went down the assembly line is the challenge. This is not Earl Schieb we are talking about here. Your videos are educational.
Thank you!!! 💯💯💯
looking forward to the videos
Thank you
My first car was a 61 Bel Air (back in 73) That big trunk could sneak 5 kids into the drive-in.
My brother had an older vehicle acid dipped and then neutralize to keep the metal from rusting he knew there would be some pieces missing after the acid dipping but it was minor. I believe it was 38 coupe 2-door.
Acid dipping is the best way in my opinion
With dipping, what is the process for resealing enclosed areas, as in, inside of rocker panels after dipping?
We spray epoxy down inside rockers and hard areas when it’s on rotisserie.
How do you protect the inside surfaces? Rockers, door pillars, hinge pillars as well as the cowl to the floor vents?
You can get special nozzles to stick down in rockers and you can only do the best you can do you have to remember 99% of most of these cars are rusty inside of these areas and they never get coded with anything to begin with so to clean everything out is a step in the right direction
Good video
Thanks for the visit
I would love to know where all the crap in the cavities goes and how you get it out after the dipping process. It’s gonna settle somewhere just like sand.
No Pun , intended just a valid question from someone that has a background in industrial coatings.
Your videos are awesome and you are very knowledgeable. Love them and I’ll keep watching for sure.
Thank you. They pressure wash it all out. It came out so nice and clean.
I heard you make reference to a bad Chad in one of your videos the other day and I just figured out who you were talking about OMG is that for real
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bad Chad is a joke.
How do you recoat/rust proof all the areas that are inaccessible?
I’m not a fan of cavity wax so I make access areas that I can shoot epoxy down into with adjusting the fan of the gun tight.
I bet if I had my 70 SuperBee dipped, they would pull back out nothing....
🤣🤣🤣🤣 oh no!!
Sad…..😳
what is your opinion on dipping the hood and truck. I ve read that its not a good idea because of the insulators between the outer and inner skins
What’s worse ? Leaving the rust or the padding? I’d dip it regardless
Best channel Yet. You go into great detail . What is your opinion on Dustless blasting ?
Thank you very much. We will discuss this process next week actually. I don’t recommend it at all. It fills up rockers etc and turns hard as a rock. Then if that gets wet it will cancer out the body.
Is acid washing for that chemical tooth you speak of necessary after acid dip. Is it the same
It is not the same. I personally don’t trust much in the ways of chemical adhesion to bare metal I always scratch it first
what about the insides of the rockers, quarters, the seams of the the panels welded together, etc.. how are you going to keep it rusting from the inside were you cannot get a coating on it? The acid has completely stripped all the coating away, so the panels welded together have no corrosion protection? I know there is cavity wax, but the seams of the panels welded together wouldnt it start rusting in between the seams?
We are currently working on a solution to that actually. Most of those seams already have surface rust. Cancer really happens when debris build up stays wet to cause rot. Once we find a product we will share it. It won’t be cavity wax.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Hey! You're doing a great job by sharing the knowledge! Did you come up with the remedy for this cavity issues?
The term used in the assembly plants for a bare metal shell is "body in white" and they are then completely submerged in a very thin etching primer bath.
Always wondered if this primer bathing process would become available for the restoration industry?
I've heard of that in the aftermarket but haven't talked to anyone who's had it done. Probably expensive but offset by additional labor costs anyway
That is called ELPO dip.
Etching primer bath or not, either way it get the manufacture off the hook for the 10 year Rust Thru warranty they all come with. After that, it is anyones guess on long it would last.
Goods produced fall into “Consumables or Durable” goods. Most of what the bulk of the public can afford to buy, it not going to make it past 15 years before the front hood crimp, doors, rocker panels or trunk lid start rusting from the inside out.
I hate to say it, but even with $40-$60 vehicle, it falls into the throw away category as they won’t get fixed, just driven. Makes a guy wonder how good the product is inside the tanks new “White Metal” is dunked into is?
Is this the 5,000 hour salt stray test material? GM engineers told our ACDelco group that 5,000 hours is translated into 150,000 miles. As parts, bearing size, PA66-GF33 plastics are used to make oil pans, rocker covers, intakes and my all favorite radiator end tank! They last enough and so many thermal cycles then crack!
The plastic on my Harbor Freight pliers heat sealed together would make a car or truck last 70 years. Admit it, scissors, axe, saw…that is tough stuff!
RJ Fab brought me here…. What’s up Sylvester?!
Right on rob is a great guy! Welcome!
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Dude… your Silverado is going to be SANO! I’m looking to get on Rob’s shortlist with my Sierra….
@@JacksonD489 thank you very much! It’s been a 8 yr journey and counting
was wondering what kind of budget was set for project like that my car was painted 3 times that i can tell gold green and i panted it blue in 1983 i was just going to sand down probably what till spring live in north east pa. be cold and damp till then played with body work 40 years ago but lots of new products since then so trying to pay attention thanks love watching
Are you referring to just body and paint? Or doing the full build?
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS kind of curios about both iam guy that found chevelle after 38 year moneys not my biggest problem just like to get done and drive again before iam dead live in mountains most body shops i know of fix deer damage insurance work think i could get done faster working on it myself never thought i would find it and dident plan on having a big project but just had to buy car back again
so i have some small areas on rockers that has epoxy on it. Can i fill tiny holes with kitty hair over epoxy within window or it has to be over metal surface? will it stick to epoxy like bondo does?
Whether it’s in the window or not I won’t recommend filler of any kind to go on without mechanical adhesion. But if you scuff it you can go over epoxy.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS I put the Tamco 662 epoxy 1st then 5310. I wanted 2050 but hard to find. i think i will wait 2 weeks before starting filler. I was trying to find your video on how to find dents on a E coat new panel or roof after 1st coat of epoxy. Was the grit on the long block 320 with a lite touch? Also why the hell is my rings falling off my Linear 24 inch flex? Just the ends weird. Might of used it a dozen times, V=Cannot find a phone number to call.. ty
Very informative, however I can't seem to find any information about how you treat inside the panels after dipping? Basically you have raw steel that you'll never be able to re-treat.
I find this question often but most don’t know that these areas are 99% of the time rusty and bare to begin with. We shoot epoxy down in these areas best we can get
Watching with interest.
What did you do to protect areas within the vehicle that cant be reached, but have been stripped to bare metal by the dip? As I understand, the dip has stripped everything back to bare metal and will give a short term chemical protection, but would require sealing for the long term?
This would be my concern as well.
Yes you are correct. 3M has a spray that you can spray inside it has a nozzle that sprays 360 degrees.
I use an undercoat gun with a wand to get into the hidden areas. I've used some hardware store primer mainly for the cost vs. epoxy. That's the time consuming factor of acid dipping over blasting. Dipping is by far more thorough but has some extra steps involved. Like he mentioned, the blasting already has the mechanical bond but doesn't do anything to neutralize interior rust. Yeah, sand sucks when painting. Especially rolling on a rotisserie.
I believe Eastwood has a similar product with a flexi tube and 360 nozzle. Thanks for the reply and i love your channel. 🤙🏼
@@class5bodyworks Yes sir I have tried sandblasting floors and such in a car and that damn sand gets everywhere. Years ago I worked in an electric motor rebuilding facility and of course beings the low man on the totem pole my first job was sandblasting the parts of the motor frame and end bells and such as the motors used an industrial coating and the only way to get it off was by sandblasting. Nasty work but it was applicable to the job. We are talking heavy cast iron stuff here and of course we had what was called an agee dip that would get in and clean everything out as well and we steam cleaned the parts (not pressure wash but steam clean). Of course to get everything good and dry we had a big oven to dry out all the moisture.
That body is in pretty good shape
For once we finally got some thing in solid shape to start with 👍🏻👍🏻
I just picked up a 1972 challenge and I was planning on getting it sand blasted. I want it to be a budget build.
Have you seen this video we did on sand blasting?
What They're Not Telling You About Sandblasting - Watch Now!
th-cam.com/video/uLJvlQ8t-RU/w-d-xo.html
Awesome, this is going to be an educational and exciting build. What do you think about the dustless blasting? Thanks
It’s a hard no for me. The water that makes it wet mixed with the sand turns to concrete inside all the the inner panels. Then if it gets wet overtime it will cancer it out. Lastly sand blasting will warp the entire car
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS according to the developers of the wet sand blasting process, it's not supposed to warp the metal since the water has a cooling effect and also when you do it properly, ( don't aim it straight on) you will not see any warping. But I would have to agree with the residual sand that would be hard to get cleaned out.
I work in a restoration shop this are real good tips to fine toon my skills how would I get hold of you by phone can I get your shop numbur?
Thank you. You can email me sylvesterscustoms@yahoo.com
makes life so much easier i have the boltable panels dipped, eng bay blasted but strip the main shell with soda, paint stripper or mechanical sanding my concern was always not being able to get in the chassis rails and boxed sections i have used 3M cavity wax with 360 hose but not sure if there is a better way to protect those areas if being dipped?.. great video again
Try using some kind of primer in your gun instead of wax. Even a cheaper primer. And something thin to run in and penetrate the seams.
Thank you!!
@@class5bodyworks cheers chris i had tried E.P but was too thick i gues anything would be better then nothing
@@angelonikitaras2977 I've used the VP2050 Sly mentioned just reduced way down. It works but I really like to save it for the outside due to cost . Same with DP90LV. So I started using something off the shelf.
Is there anyone here in So. CA that can do "the dip"?? I'm sure they've all been run out of state. OR seems like a long way to go to get this done. What were the costs involved just to get it up there and back?
Nobody in Ca closest was Eugene Oregon. It was 3k to dip and 2,200 in shipping round trip.
Good stuff here, thanks,
You say we can acid 1 section at a time and focus on that, can I use muriatic acid for a few minutes then neutralize it with...? Can you please shed some light on how that is done safely. Nobody out here does acid dipping, only sandblasting and me too are not a fan of that. Have a truck cab that has to many buried areas that are impossible to access.
Muriatic acid will work I suppose but we have a video specifically on acid washing look back on our older videos.
Can I spray etching primer over small filler sections or over old paint??
Etching primer is for bare metal. Why would you want to?
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS because some of section have been repaired with filler but mostly bare metal so I was just wondering instead of removing the filler I can just paint over it
You can but I wouldn’t use an etch I’d use an epoxy
Do you have more photos of what it looked like after the dip? That was a lot of Bondo!
This video is after dip. We haven’t done any metal work yet. Only DA with 80 grit
Have you ever tried dipping in e coating
No I haven’t
Hahaha - I acid dipped my 57 Chev HT coupe. Ive spent the last 4 years staring at the badly repaired rear quarters, not knowing what to do. Ive learnt to weld and a bunch of panel skills watching videos like yours - much appreciated, your 61 is of huge interest to me, I got a rotisserie, no sand, but curious about inside the panels. Cheers from New Zealand.
I’ll be back on the 61 soon is the goal.
i really wish i would have kept the 1961 buick invicta convertible
After watching this video, had a local South Carolina acid dipper quote me $2600 to dip just the tub of a 2000 jeep wrangler. This was the tub ONLY, no tailgate, doors, front fenders, windshield, grille or hood. Higher than expected, does that seem about right?
Seems close. We just had a 61 impala done every body panel which was a lot for 3k.
Man that thing looked like a horror show at first.
Crazy huh and really the car wasn’t half bad
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS I'm excited to see how it turns out.
@@monkeyearcheese420 thanks me too. Check us out on instagram or FB for more updates on projects 👌🏻
You know what the hell you are talking about thats for sure. I have a project that is covered in rust and a former porsche restoration guy told me the acid dipping process is not worth it. His point was how difficult it is to remove the traces of the acid in the various channels underneath of the car. Is this really an issue?
Thank you. Only if you don’t neutralize the acid. The guy I had do it is Probly one of the best in the business. After seeing it in person it has no leakage from the seams it looks amazing.
We just had a 68 F100 dipped and was neutralized afterwards. It had about a one or two week window to coat the bare metal. Only down side I've seen is traces of rust left in between flanges. Not sure if it was left in the tank long enough as they were busy at that time. Only way to clean this out is to separate every panel. Not sure of that's the best option.
FWIW it's not that hard to blast a car to bare metal without warping panels, even large roofs. Semi local guy does a couple a week for all the area resto/hot rod/ muscle car builders.
Sand falling out is a possibility, but so is chemicals bleeding out from seams/pinchwelds. priming the cavities, finishing the interior/trunk, etc and using a liquid paint mask does a pretty good job of keeping the sand down. its not a big deal/difficult to get it in epoxy after having it blasted, and you don't have to worry about acid, or adhesion.
We all have our opinions. We don’t have to agree
Most people don’t know what it takes and choose to go with the lesser shop due to cost.
Very true you get what you pay for but on the same token not everybody has that kind of money
hey have you tried 20liters of molasses to every 1000 litres of water soak the car for a couple of weeks then water blast
No I will never do water blast. Flash rusting will be in full affect.
This is chris Redi Strip. We had cars dipped 30 years ago. And the half ass people called me that. Chemical striping is the way to go.
Chemical stripping is the best way to go.
TH-cam channel "my friend Pete" says that acid dipping car can thin the sheet metal so bad that car racing guys do that on purpose to make their cars lighter😹😹😹😹🤣.
He swears acid, dipping a car is the worst thing a guy can do.
Are you sure that's an Impala not a biscuit cuz I have 3 impalas in my garage look nothing like that cuz
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 well we found an impala inside the biscuit
There are no body shops left in this country,not in the traditional sense anyway
Meaning what?
As your talking about what it takes to do all that work, I’m getting tired just listening. Makes my head hurt honestly.
It’s definitely not for everybody
I know what to do. Crush it up rather than empty your bank account.
Actually this body is in great shape.
A good sand blaster who knows what he's doing won't warp the metal, and it won't cost you 3k. That's ridiculous. Soda blasting works even better, doesn't remove the e coat, and rinses away with water. Maybe you should talk to actual professionals!
Thanks for watching
@brad hernandez Okay genius the car is from 1961. Cathodic e-coat system for automotive bodies started in 1973.
I’ve watched many of these videos. FYI commentator spend too much time talking. Get to the point. People lose interest with a long dialogue just get to the point. I love see classic cars being restored. Please cut out extras. Talking
Here’s a thought don’t watch it then 🙄
The more he talks, the more I learn, and I thank him for that.
I had to skip through most of the video because too much talking, not enough video of the dipping and the car
Then you got nothing out of it due to your attention span lol
Too bad they wasted all that damn time on a flat top Impala
To each their own
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS bro I'm trying to help out nobody wants a flat top except for one or two losers
@@jamesbarnes7045 this car is for an owner with sentimental value. Not me either but to each their own he will never sell the car and he’s happy so whatever pays the bills
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS okay here's a suggestion never make videos about wack ass cars only the cool ones
@@jamesbarnes7045 🙄 smh