Tuning Material Flow For Best Quality 3d Prints (OrcaSlicer)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ม.ค. 2024
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In this video we dive into calibrating flow per material for your 3d printer. This is an important process if you want to ensure you dont have under or overextrusion. The process is fairly simple and we go step by step how to use OrcaSlicers built in tools along with calibrating Rotation Distance.
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I’ve been using this since switching to Orca last October. It absolutely makes a difference in print quality.
Please make this into a playlist. Am going to follow ur guides tomorrow after my print is done and i want to get all the best information all in one place thats easy to understand like this video
Just bounced from Stefan's size and skew video to this banger. Tuning is the word of the day. I used this method on my rooted K1 Max and it worked really well. My top layers look great and my layer stacks are nice and consistent. Thanks for the great content always.
Thank you for the kind words. Stefan's video was awesome and definitely gave me a lot to think about. Will be interesting to see the skew on some of the printers I have built here. Have a great weekend :)
came from CNC kitchen too
Great information. I have been on Marlin since 2014, but recently moved to a new Klipper machine and I've been a bit lost on calibration and quality. Thanks for this great video.
Excellent series of walkthroughs. Straightforward, easy to follow along!
Thank you! I spend a lot of time on these so I am happy to hear others enjoy them.
Used one of your Videos Years ago to calibrate My CR10 esteps…(And Silent board Upgrade, My BLTouch recalibration, Setting up my Micro Swiss Extruder on my HotEnd, Dealing with my Tensioning, learning to Flash/ref lash firmware, learning to cura, orca etc..)So SOO many things now that I’m thinking about it!.😂
You are one of the Best, most Helpful Friends that I have Never Met..🤙🏻
Thanks Man..
Rad🤙🏻
Will definitely give the orca test prints ago. Thanks
Very helpful - rotation was off by 1 mm - tested 3 times. Did the calibration and then next two test were spot on.
Being able to easily and quickly changing settings without recompiling is my favorite thing about klipper
RepRapFirmware did this long ago
@@benvrakas6665every single modern piece of software did this decades ago
This is also true for much of Marlin firmware. Looks like we all have it!🎉
@@brettvitaz9101when did Marlin get it? you used to have to recompile Marlin for every change
Lol. You can change this in RRF on the fly by just sending GCode.
Rotation distance isn't constant between filaments with different hardnesses. This is due to the amount the gear teeth bite into the filament as it feeds it through. That different amount of squish into the filament by the teeth changes the effective diameter of the wheels feeding the filament. As you're already dealing with small adjustments this phenomen will affect the results with different hardness between filament types (PLA, PETG, TPU, etc). This is one of the reasons you need to calibrate the flow for each filament type.
I've been thinking for years to put an optical sensor from a mouse to track actual filament travel, gave up right away when looking at the work i would have to do. But Bambu seemed to find a way with a pressure sensor, i'm sure the backpressure would still be tuned for each type of filament but will compensate for temps and slippage differentials at different print speeds, etc
Furthermore, for best optical tracking you would also have to include filament width gauges. Possibly two optical sensors at 90 degrees to catch how wide the filament is and double as motion tracking. Mouse sensors should be able to handle that, it's basically the same thing the X1 uses for "lidar"
Feeling the flow swatches is a great tip. Couldn't tell by eye for this black pla I'm working with which pass 2 one was the best, but feeling them coughed up a clear winner.
I just got into 3d printing but I have a background in machining and CNC. Very helpful video.
Always great content!
Thank you! 🙏 have a great weekend 😊
been watchin for a while. subbin for this series alone, great job man.
Thanks for the sub 😊🙏
Lots of good info thanks. Just want to add that flow calibration is also necessary as part of regular machine maintenance & not just filament swaps since the extruder gear will wear out with time and this will decrease the gear's diameter / circumference, resulting in under-extrusion.
Thank you so much really helpful
Can’t wait for the next videos! This method worked great only issue is a had to migrate to OS when am used to PS
Thank you, THIS is so much better than the FOTM review
I was never good at math lol. But I do need to something like this on my machine. THANK YOU 🙏
My preferred calibration approach is: z-offset, then SuperSlicer flow calibration first pass to rough things out (same as this video), then z-offset again, then run 3 Ellis calibration squares to dial in the flow. The Ellis squares place a couple layers of infill to quench the impact of poor z-offer or bed tramming, and also use bigger surface area and more layers to enhance the impacts of over-extrusion. But the Ellis squares are, of course, a lot slower to print, which is why I do the rough pass.
Gran video! Desde que probé Orca Slicer, empecé a probar estos test, pero no presté atención al orden. Tiene lógica, 👍, thank you very much
First test, elegoo neptune 4 plus, spot on X)
These guides are great.
I hope you'll do a guide (with voron in mind) on how to tune the speed settings.. that's a main thing in cura/prusa/etc that is very overwhelming for me there's so many and I have 0 idea what each do
I use Ellis' flow tool -- the test goes through all of the flow rates and you select which one is best based on how the prints look. Seems to work pretty well.
I mark the filament with a box cutter knife. Nice and precise and easy to measure to.
I like using a piece of tape
You said to calibrate at the temperature of the filament. However, my experience with temperatures of filaments is that they have a RANGE of temps, not a single temperature. Therefore, there can be up to a 20-30 degree difference in any filament. That being the case, I have noticed that if I use the upper temperature (as printed on the filament spool), I get different results from the same filament at the lower temperature.
For example, if I use the lower temperature, I probably will get a part that won't bond the layers together as well because each layer is too cool to melt itself to the preceding layer. This has resulted for me failed prints, especially ones that take a long time to print and that are less close to the print bed and have a lower temperature as the print progresses. I did one just the other day that simply by upping the temperature by 10 degrees made the difference between a failed print and a successful one.
Additionally, although esteps might be technically "correct", filament that is melted more will extrude after the stepper motor just a little faster than cooler filament because it will tend to "flow" out of the nozzle instead of being pushed at a precise amount. Also, the plasticity of filament affects retraction, and more stringing happens at higher temps with some filament types.
I do extrusion distance a bit different and find it to be easier and more accurate. I unload the filament then remove nozzle and let it cool. No need to heat after this point, load some filament and extrude until just a little sticks out from hot end and clip it off flush with bottom of hot end. Then extrude 50 or 100mm, clip it off flush again then measure that piece. Doing it this way is quicker, eliminates the possibility of skipped steps due to extrusion pressure and removes the vague thick line sharpie markers give you. If your printer is in an enclosure this method makes it real easy compared to working inside it.
I've been using this method since I switched to OrcaSlicer a few months ago, but as usual your video is concise and really accessible, great work as always!
Now back to my build for the day 😂
Hey! Love your walkthroughs! Do you think it would be worth it to do a walkthrough on how to tune in your dimensional accuracy and what that entails? Using SuperSlicer or Orca Slicer
This is very helpful. How does this compare to the k value on my Bambu Lab?
When your finished making these printer calibration vids could you put them all together as a beginners guide. Id like to send my brother who lives in the UK these as hes looking at getting a printer once he returns from Here in Australia. Big Cheers from A M8 Downunder🙃
Would be nice to know about the rest of the calibrations in orca slicer, I've done each of the calibrations, but the tutorial page doesn't say how to input or what to change once you're done. Thanks for this explanation!
thankyou so much
that was very good idea but
am useing Ultimaker Cura, can't froud rotation_distance
I tried ellis tuning guide and orca slicer flow (EM) calibration and got 2 different results. You should do a video on this
letrs say I have klipper fresh installed and orcaSlicer.. what is the best option... select the ender 3v2 profile and tune from there or select custom klipper printer and tune from there... and what should be the correct order of tests and calibrations?
Can you tell me what Filament and Color is used for the stealthburner at 0:09 ? I love the Color!
I just got a smaller Sharpie. Old map marking tip, use ultra fine tip for making precise markings.
I was talking to a orca dev and he recommends larger coupons printed one at a time. More time consuming, but it will yield better results. Further, your top surface quality will be influenced (like the video said), by your Z offset, as well as your solid infill and how many top layers you actually have. One thing to note, is that smaller areas will always appear overextruded, you want to focus on the largest part of the print and in the center of that.
Good news is there is an algorithm in the works that will attempt to equalize flow for smaller areas so they appear uniform.
Isn't that the purpose of the auto-generated test squares? It has a certain number of infill layers so the bottom layers aren't impacting the end result? At least, that is how Ellis' guide has you do it, and I'm pretty sure the Orca tests are based on that
How do you feel about the single wall flow method? Over the pucks
Can you do a video on how to determine if flow is too high or too low? I really seem to struggle with choosing the correct rectangles for my calculations and usually make things worse.
fun fact if you use any extruder with concaved gears so basically any dual gear system, filement thickness play double role because smaller diameter of filement wouldtouch extruder gears closer to the gear shaft and thus making less distance every turn
if your filment is always 1,75mm then you probably fine , but whenever you switch brands depending if they measured it hot or cold during production you may have to calibrate esteps from the scratch
then again if you are in a ballpark of 10% you can probably print the calibration prints twice and get to the correct flow without touching esteps because this is almost like redundency
I sliced the same file with the same settings on Bambu and Orca. It is an articulated rattle snake body that is pretty complex. Bambu says 7 hrs. Orca says 11.5.
Do you really need to adjust e-steps or rotation distance when you can just correct it with the flow setting?
Does rotation distance need to be calculated with the Bambu P1S?
I’ve read that it is a good idea to run Flow 2 again after tuning pressure advance to really get things dialed in perfectly.
Been curious on the order of operations. Someone mentioned: Temp Tower, Flow Rate, Pressure Advance, Max Flow.
Can I use/do this on/for my Snapmaker 2.0 A350T? Will it work?
I have also the problem in Orca slicer that i have only 3-4 filaments
Not the long list as you showed
Do you have to root K1 in order to be able to change the rotational distance?
I just hope that Orca gets the XL one day, Ive tried copying everything over and Orca does not like the startup Gcode for a 2 tool XL. Or I wish Prusa would bring in the calibration modes of Orca Slicer.
I calibrated the esteps just like you showed us at the beginning and ran both flow calibration tests, and my final material flow (for PETG) was 0.83. Is that ok, or does anyone else think that's too much of an offset from something that shouldn't be too far off from 1.00? This is on an Elegoo Neptune 4 Plus with a 0.6 nozzle.
Does this get in the way of Pressure advance ? I think you said that should be dialed in after flow, but wont the pressure advance mess with this ??
One day the machines will do all this for us. One day. Tbf, the A1 series is already on its way there!
I am definitely looking forward to a method that can be implemented on more printers to automate it.
You can use masking tape to mark the filament. Just stick the tape to the ruler then transfer it to the filament. After extruding, just put the tape back on the ruler. Much more precise than using marking pen.
You will need to be careful doing this the first time on something like a new extruder as the value may be so far off the tape would get sucked into the gears, this is why you measure more than you actually extrude. I also already commented on why adjusting your Rotation Distance using this method is poor to begin with, please look at that comment, but for a general sanity check before proceeding with further tuning a marker is just fine.
Agreed with Char that unless you know its only off by a little bit dont use tape. I have seen some where after an extruder swap the gear ratio is so different it extrudes WAY more than it should. Trying to fish some tape out of the gears doesnt sound fun.
Just ran the calibration like you suggested. My rotation distance was way off and i set it to 60% of the original value. The original value gave some ok results. Now of course there was crazy over extrusion and i had to set the flow ratio to 0.6. Seems like that's a bit weird. The flow ratio of the presets of all filaments will be a off by a lot now right?
I collect calibration videos. MOAR. 🤣
I've been using Prusa Slicer and have been meaning to switch over to Orca.
I really like OrcaSlicer. Dont get me wrong Prusa is a really nice slicer but its hard to beat Orca especially for Klipper printers.
Is this video about flow rate or estep?
I'm new to Orcaslicer and only see a small selection of "Voron Generic" filament profiles when I go to Add/Remove Filament. Is there a way to quickly add other manufacturer default profiles (like you show at 7:32 in this video), or is it a manual process of hunting down and importing config files?
I oculd not this this working with orca slicer. each part did have a different flow settting but each part felt exactly the same. any idea what happned?
For darker filaments I pinch a painters tape flag around the filament with the edge dead on the measurement
Tbh for flow i prefer the single-wall cube
There is a downside of caliper accuracy or minor layer shifts, but the precision tends to be enough
Tho this is a great toolless method
You're not getting me on that one again. I've run PrusaSlicer a LOT, but the first time I installed OrcaSlicer to take advantage of its handy calibration and tuning routines, it sent some G code to my printer and crashed it. I still have a big nozzle gouge scrape across the PEI sheet as a reminder. I know a lot of people love OrcaSlicer, but I think I'll stick with my own manual optimizations and tunings in PrusaSlicer.
Lots of us noobies have Bambu Lab printers. Can you show how to do these things for them? I don't know how to calibrate the P1S extruder.
Great video for beginers!
I really hope it helps others. 😊
any way to do it in prusa slicer?
Guys please help me out with Klipper on corexy. I changed my board from marlin(mks gen L to klipper(mks skipr)and my printer got much more louder. I literally use the same settings as possible. Same drivers (tmc2209) ,stepper motors etcetera.
The settings difference are: klipper have sensorless home, uart, and the drivers amper set by klipper, not manually with screw. I did try to change Stealthchop_threshold to 9999999,9999,500,200,60 and 0 by activate the spreadcycle. Nothing different. Also did try to.play with microsteps but the 16 was the most "quite ".
Is this benifital for bambu lab A1? Since it has a built-in flow calibration system.
Fortunately/unfortunately (if you have fun tuning) no, don't need to do flow calibration as its basically done in real time by the nozzle pressure sensor
Good video., but PLA, PETG, etc, are easy. How about TPU and how the flow test may not give you the most accurate results when dealing with proper layer widths and a pair of calipers.
Not sure the results were "spot on" at 6:21, given that the ruler is skewed enough to be minus 2 or 3mm.
The whole proposed measuring procedure is extremely inprecise, but somehow you calculate the rotational distance to the 4th decimal.
That’s more the camera angle. Is there some room for deviation? Absolutely but it’s a lot closer than 2-3mm.
strange... my Orca-Slicer has only Creality filament profiles
Ok now please do this for Creality print
7:30 my OrcaSlicer 1.9.0 does not have all those filaments, it only shows 3 choices, how do I get all the choices you see?
I have the same problem with my Neptune 4 and orca slicer
@@berlinberlin4246 You have to add a printer. I added a Bamboo X1 Carbon and suddenly I can now print with Bamboo brand filament. I don't know why Orca only limits you to the filament made by your printer.
@@Beakerzor thanks, I'll ask on the Github page whether this can possibly be changed.
@@BeakerzorI will try it
@@Bassterinohave you the issue number? Than I can subscribe to the news on the issue
I find it's better to place a piece of masking tape on the filament instead of using a marker as it will give a clearer and more acurate mark to measure.
Flow looks good but the ghosting is an issue
Still cant install orcaslicer damn it.
I actually had just found that jar tool opener yesterday before seeing this video, and the thumbnail with the jar tool opener is what made me click on it. I do not recommend that jar tool opener. It didn't even fit any of the jars in my fridge. I printed in 4 different sizes, and they each are able to open a different kind of lid, but not all of them together. Feel it needs a redesign.
Im actually not a huge fan of cailbrating the rotation distance, because this varies from filament to filament. Just calibrating flow per filament in the slicer is easier imo.
Rotation distance shouldn’t change per filament. Since it measures the input and not the output it should be consistent unless is something preventing the extruder from grabbing/feeding. I suppose as long as your rotation distance is within range though then flow per filament only is fine. I just like to dial in rotation distance initially.
@@ModBotArmy I'm guessing you mean it shouldn't change per filament in your first sentence. I agree that rotation distance should be calibrated, especially if you have more than one printer. Otherwise, you might need to adjust flow for each filament for each printer, since each printer's rotation distance could be slightly different.
@@jyxent thank you that was a typo I corrected 😊
Current_Flow_Ratio * (100 + Modifier) / 100 = New_Flow_Ratio
I wonder if this is the reason why my prince have bin having all kinds of ripples up the walls 🤔
How can your esteps be this inaccurate? It would require definitely investigation. E-steps for the motors/gearing can be calculated and is by your manufacturer. Your motor is probably the most accurate part of the printer. Also you can tune your e-steps when you never print with other type/brand/batch filament.
You did the "without further ado" lie again!
🤫
So instead of doing all the math we can just tilt the ruler?
Fluff
In my opinion this method is not accurate enough. You use a I will call it „standard“ ruler with 1mm resolution (lets be optimistic and say the markings are right) that would mean that this is 2% flow/ rotation distance per mm. In my opinion quite a high error. I prefer the following methode: cut a piece of filament at aprox 120mm. Use digital calipers and use the offset to put it at 0, extrude 100mm, measure the distance. 1. double the accuracy by higher distance
2. way mor precision with my calibrated mitutoyo caliper than on a ruler
Sure if you have calipers and want to trim that is a great way of doing it. I mention calipers in the video as an option. There are lots of ways that calibrations can be performed and ultimately I feel the output is really what matters. This method works for me so I can stand by it but if you prefer your method and it’s worked well for you that’s great. 👍
For a mathematically-chanllenged individual like myself, this is a mind-numbing amount of mathematics.
I'll be glad when they come out with a printer that has the AI capability to automatically calibrate any given filament.
Don't laugh. I know that this capability is coming in some of the newer 3D filament printer in the pipeline.
BambuLab have lidar and eddy current sensors....with dynamic flow adjustments..be glad now
First!
just 14 seconds! :D
You guys are fast 💨💨💨😊
Or. Just print a part of say 500g. As in the slicer says it uses 500g. Just weigh the part after printing. That is when you realize that there is more to this, like density, diameter, and moisture.
I would have a hard time trusting weight. Especially with things like purge lines and skirts. I haven’t tested the accuracy of slicers estimations but unless you have calculated density in the slicer its calculations would be off.
@@ModBotArmy This was a waste of my time. The physics of extrusion is pretty straight forward, until you realize that it is not. If you haven't gone through the hoops trying to sett the physics of it accurately, and realized the real accuracy of what you're doing, this is a waste of my time. Your talk like you don't get this.
it's too bad voxel shipping it prohibitive for canadians
You have excellent videos, However in this one, You are flying through the math way too fast and your video isn't aligning with the keys you are hitting on the calculator.
"With all that being said and without further Ado" LETS GET STRAIGHT TO OUR SPONSOOOOR than the video... I hate this in your videos.
Skip past it 👌
PLEASE DO NOT CALIBRATE YOUR ROTATION DISTANCE USING THIS METHOD! It is WRONG and a hold over from the poor way it was always told to do so on Marlin!
Rotation Distance in Klipper is derived and calculated based on your hardware ONLY and it is why extruders like CW2 and Orbiter can just give you the value to set. If you want this to be exact follow the Klipper documents on calculating it yourself (not by using the Step per MM method but by measuing the hardware itself) as there will be variations in parts such as the gears even for the same extruder. While it is still useful to run the check mentioned by doing an extremely slow extrude (or better yet, remove your nozzle or extruder entirely and do it without melting plastic) as a sanity check there will ALWAYS be some variation due to the tension on your filament, the filament squish, resistance in filament path, etc.
ALL of this variation should be corrected via Flow Rate in your slicer ONLY! If you change your Rotation Distance to correct for these variations you will ALWAYS be chasing a different value as you change materials, change extruder tension, change print speeds, etc. You should only set your Rotation Distance ONCE and never touch it again, follow the steps for flow rate calibration (there are also better methods than the built in ones) any time you make a change such as the examples above.
This method works great and is exactly what is recommended in the Klipper documentation. It sounds like what you are saying is not far off from what I show in this video. The rotation distance is not meant to be updated per filament. I set it once to make sure it is as close to accurate as possible with a stiff filament. That gives you a great baseline to then tune flow per filament from the slicer.
If you have the rotation distance for the extuder that's great and in most cases will be fine to leave but it can be wrong and if not provided this method is simple to get you that baseline.
Why to tuber always print so damn slow in these videos?
Dang, put your hands in your pockets or just show related video while you speak. Whatever you are trying signal, it is very distracting. Aside from that, good info and I must do this. Thanks.
I just this month brought a k1 max and switched to orca slicer and it makes me wish I swapped before