So, instead of her dying saving Jersey City or something with her friends and family like Yusuf, Zoe, Bruno, Carol or Miles, she dies fixing Peter's problems with people she barely knew. Awful, just awful.
I like to think that she died doing what a hero does: saving another life. I can see Wolverine sacrifice himself to save someone in Guatemala or something. It's what heroes do
@@BrakSplash I like that she died being heroic but having it happen with none of her traditional allies around like Miles or Carol or even Cyclops and not even having it in her own book or an event comic just feels wrong. Imagine if when they killed Captain Marvel back in the day it hadn't been in his own miniseries but in a random issue of Hulk or something.
@tashaem1 I understand. But I think I'm okay with it because Ms. Marvel just didn't get killed like Doctor Strange off panel and assassinated. She knew she was going to die and did it anyway. Not for her friends or for her hometown. But to save one person. And I respect her character for that. But I can also understand why people don't like this
What did she fix for Peter? Except sacrificing herself to keep MJ safe and causing Peter grief, what did she fix? She was used in the most awful way ever.
@@tashaem1 Are you really comparing Ms. Marvel with Captain America? Ms. Marvel is a minor character that the woke have been trying to push for many years, without success, failing even in her own videogame, whereas Captain America is literally one of the pillars of all Marvel. She, dying randomly, is what usually happens to minor characters, and we've seen WAY better characters being killed horribly before. I don't get people upset about this. It's an unrelatable, boring, annoying, ugly character, that never had a proper design because editors were trying to create something inclusive instead of something interesting.
As a big Spider-Man fan and Ms. Marvel fan my biggest problem wasnt even Kamala's death, because hardly no one in mainline comics truly "dies". My issues comes from the fact that Marvel has this fixation of not allowing adult peter to have any sense of stability. I get that the life of spiderman is not supposed to be easy and should come with hardships, but at this point it feels like beating a dead horse. Edit: To clarify what i mean. It's one thing to not have Peter and MJ be in a relationship, or to have her be with someone else. But to have the death of a kid on peter's hands when it didnt need to happen in the first place is overkill.
Agreed about Peter. Peter can't even go to work on time because some nut job is always shooting up downtown New York and he has to take a detour because no one else could be bothered to.
Even Stan Lee had Peter grow up and be happy at the end of the Animated Series. "You're not the guy I've been writing all these years." was meant in a good way.
@@jspur22 hell even going back to the comics, Peter ages and grows exponentially more in those first 100 issues than he has in the past 15 years. Spencer’s run literally defined him as “in his mid-twenties”, mean while Lee’s story wrote Peter through high school and college. You can’t even argue it’s because of Mephisto because they establish he didn’t take years away, he just changed the events of their wedding. You’re telling me the past 40-50 years of SM events happen in the span of what, 7 years?
As a Ms Marvel fan this just felt like a weird decision. I feel like a story focused on Kamala and her supporting cast would have been a better way to end this era of Ms Marvel than having her "killed off" in front of a bunch of characters that don't know her. It seems obvious that they're bringing her back with her MCU toolkit, as the comics are working harder to synergize with the movies, but this choice just felt like it came out of nowhere.
@@yiklongtay6029 her powers in the show are just “Quantum Bands”, definitely places her more closely with the standard “Captain Marvel” template than being a more unique hero.
"synergize" is a fun way to say copy the now extremely mediocre MCU content (increasingly often just poor adaptations of the original comic book characters) for 1000% marketing purposes, possibly as an editorial dictate by the parent company
I actually find it an interesting concept to explore, when heroes leave their cities to assist other heroes they are risking their lives for people that barely know them. Thats the risk that comes from leaving her territory
what if they did where everytime ms marvel dies she returns to become cacoon again and returned to kamala when she just gained her powers including her memories return to her youngerself. so she becomes newbie with expectation of expert. she will start to feel pressure to become her exprienced self and try to do thing her "future self" can do but she couldn't yet. she knew these heroes for while so heroes and friends treat her like they knew each other but she feels weird because she "never knew them". i think there is always benefit to the situation.
She honestly just could have been the only person defending Peter’s choices. That all it could have taken to give her something more to be than a cameo in the book.
No matter what age you’re in, the Fridge is strong. Simultaneously assassinating a character while assassinating a character. Well, I’m not gonna fall for your trap, Marvel. I’m still going to like MJ and think she should be with Peter. Out of spite.
I hate Mary Jane man, not her character in general but how they write her and shit and the whole thing with Paul is just stupid, since the kids are like 4 or 3, she fucked Paul months after she sent Peter back, I have no empathy for her anymore.
Ms. Marvel does not die that way. She comes back to life and then she goes back in time, shape shifts into a plane and crashes into the World Trade Center! She was a terrorist this entire TIME! She will get rid of American scum like a hero "in her point of view"!
You know what, this is actually reminding me of the time that Peter turned into a spider and gave birth to himself so he could have organic webshooters like he does in the Raimi movies. I think you're absolutely spot on, really good analysis.
@DatboyKB Spectacular Spider-Man Disassembled. It was your typical Man-Spider story. Only Spider-Man transformed completely into a giant spider. He apparently died as a spider and burst out of the exoskeleton as himself again.
She should have had her own mini arc in the story. She should have also had a conversation with Peter where he told her how much Mary Jane mean to him or something that lead her to doing what she did. It would have been some kind of pay off at least.
@@johnsantos507 Chill lil bro, I like every obscure human looking race in comics from the new gods to the otsutski clan. I’ll remind you when it happens though
I was giving this run a chance, for real. I liked how it started with Tombstone, but it was kinda middling after that. But killing Kamala Khan for no reason in a comic she wasnt a big part in, yeah I really hated that.
A little more context on Mrs. Marvel's shapeshifting, it's technically not a forgotten power. In actuality is's a power the Kamala A: Doesn't like to use. That's like half the point of her initial run. If she's going to be a hero she's going to be one as herself not disguised as other people, and B: It disrupts her other powers to an extent that she finds it useless to use in combat situations.
Thinking back to when she was shot in her first volume, shouldn't her wound have healed when she turned back into Kamala or did that magic blade have a death curse attached to it?
@Aaron Kelly I don't remember what issue but her shape-shifting powers at some point started taking up more energy than the rest of her powers, making it harder for her to heal and stretch. It was actually believed she lost them until another writer just forgot or didn't know that happened and had her use them.
@@89Crono yeah they mention that in the first volume, in the bodega she turns into her mom to look like a normal person or something to the cops but realizes she isn’t healing
The most frustrating thing about this is that not only was this a cynical move done for the sake of marketting, but it's not even just marketing for Ms Marvel. If it were about that, there are so many better ways to have killed her off. If they are gonna bring her back outright as a mutant then they could have killed her off with the X-men. She and Cyclops have a history thanks to the Champions. But instead they killed her off in Spider-Man to bolster that book's sales. They couldn't even let her death be the only goal. Which is why I think this is actually next-level fridging. They have demonstrated so little regard for her as a character that they viewed killing her off as "two birds, one stone." I know that characters die all the time but this feels so uniquely ugly. Both because of the circumstances of her death in the story, but also because of the meta reasons why. Marvel didn't even do this because they thought no one would care. They did it because they knew people WOULD care. They WANTED to get people upset, they wanted to stoke ire and hurt and toxicity. They're hurting their audience, trying to make them worse, trying to encourage them to participate in the destructive rage-cycle of internet outrage. And it's just... ugly.
Their just killing her off so they can bring her back as a mutant like the mcu version of the character and not have her be a inhuman shape-shifter anymore
@@christianwelch4206 One of the reasons she lost the ability to do that were the writers resolving that she no longer wanted to hide and be someone else. So this was a failure on both a story line and a character themes sense
@@christianwelch4206 Isn't part of the editor's job to inform the writer of the continuity and how other characters fit into the book? Nick Lowe really should've caught this... Or maybe Zeb Wells should've bothered to actually read Ms Marvel comics.... since he's working on the movie..............
My theory is that Ms. Marvel will be back between September-November before the release of the Marvels Movie. There will also be two big changes to her character. One being that her powers are more closely to her movie counterpart and her being a mutant. Also let's not forget, that according to a lot of comic youtubers, the marvel comics are advertisements for the movies and who is going to be in a movie during the holidays.
That is exactly what I was thinking. No way Marvel actually keeps Ms. Marvel dead with the Marvels movie about to come out. This is more likely a way to build more excitement around a reboot of Ms. Marvel with MCU powers. She will either be resurrected, probably on Krakoa with an x-gene added because Cyclops still remembers his history with her when his time displaced younger self was a champion. Maybe the X-men resurrection protocols can’t recreate inhuman powers and she gets energy powers because she didn’t have an x-gene to copy and the way new x-genes are expressed in a developing teen can be unpredictable. They might have been able to pull it off if this wasn’t so random, predictably triggering and done right before a movie with the Ms. Marvel comes out
@@brianferreira7277 This is what I'm thinking. Either they can't recreate inhuman powers and have to change her to a mutant, or she gets caught up in some dumb plot line where the ressurection protocols get compromised somehow and she gets turned into a mutant. Also, in one of the latest X-men comics Scott literally asked Emma Frost to revive her.
To take your theory a little further, they will make Peter ask for her resurrection, which will be yet another out-of-character Spider-Man effort to fix something that’s none of his business to fix.
On this one, I don't think it's out of character for Peter to ask for someone to fix this. She did save Mary Jane, I think it fair for Peter to want to pay her back somehow.
@@JC4Stuffs MJ should lose her own BS powers trying to resurrect her, because there’s no point to her having any already. Doubt they’ll go with this because it makes some sense and they want to have none
I’m 75% certain MJ was going to die but editorial were too scared to go through with it. I’m even more certain they “killed” Ms.Marvel just to bring her back with that MCU synergy.
I rather would have MJ die with all the character assassination this book has done to her. At least someone can bring her back in a later run and say that the MJ of this run was just a clone or something
I think the biggest issue was that it wasn't groundbreaking or impactful enough, like the Hulk, Dr. Strange, or Storm. I wonder if it's Aunt May or Mary Jane. It would be more impactful because we have known these characters for a long time. Plus, according to Marvel logic, Marvel heroes or villains don't stay dead for long.
If MJ had died then the fans would just scream that they did all the character assassination they could to kill her off, proving that the writers and editors hate MJ for absolutely no reason. If May had died then it invalidates everything, because they would have had died with May and Peter never making up for the dumb storyline that is happening right now.
@Jonathan Chevez I'm angry that they keep dangling this possible relationship between her and Peter Parker. I mean, she had Iron Man armor, superpowers, and a duo with Black Cat. They're just doing all of this to make her relevant, but what makes her more relevant is for her to die. I think her death would be a testimony to Peter Parker for not taking people's lives for granted and for being a better Spider-Man.
The funny thing is, I knew about the deaths of green arrow, batman, doctor strange and the justice league already cause I read those comics. The only place I've heard about the death of Mrs Marvel is comicstorian.
I really hated this death for a lot of reasons. Like @Comicstorian mentioned, she barely showed up in Spider-Man's run AT ALL in the lead up to her death. The way she died is a variant form of "fridging" in the way the death was written. And while editorially, I know "why" Marvel staff is doing this (to likely revive her into a mutant on Krakoa to more likely match the show), I find that even MORE hurtful. For one, I started reading Ms. Marvel shortly after her debut. At the time, it was harder to get into reading Marvel comics than DC comics doing their Rebirth start, and as a new comic book reader, she felt like a good entry point. The writing and Kamala Khan's antics also felt like how people starting with Spider-Man must have felt, with themes of growing up and struggling with life values and balancing those responsibilities. Especially more so when at the time, Peter Parker wasn't quite his typical status quo. I liked her Inhuman powers of stretching that was similar to Mr. Fantastic, but have slight differences. I was miffed when her MCU show drastically changed her powers to light constructs, but gave it a pass, since stretching SFX are still likely not quite great in live action, especially on TV budgets. But after the show finished, I was INCREDIBLY worried they will change her powers and Inhuman origins in the mainline comics. Her powers symbolized how she felt at the time of the story, like how she felt the need to look *exactly* like Carol Danvers in her debut at first, or shrunk when she felt small, or felt "bent out of shape" so to speak. Hardlight constructs just don't feel the same. And with changing her powers, let me ask...how long and how well did it go with the readers for Peter Parker when they changed his webs to be ORGANIC like the Sam Raimi movies? And as for the mutant thing...to be honest, there is a MUCH cleaner way they could have made her (and other Inhumans) mutants. Just explain in a discovery that Inhumans are an offshoot forced evolution of mutants. The Avengers 1,000,000 BC basically revealed mutants being around since nearly the dawn of man. And then just explain that the Inhumans who survived the Kree experiments were *because* they happen to had been mutant humans. And to further explain the way Terrigen mist is good for Inhumans but bad for "mutants" like in X-Men vs Inhumans, it's because the experimentation is still harmful, and Inhumans "evolved" to tolerate and benefit from it. This way, it would be a simple "revelation" story, they wouldn't have to kill and revive Ms. Marvel, they could use the excuse to help verify how many "Inhumans" are left (likely just keep the Royal Family, Ms. Marvel, and Moon Girl around), and they can still use the Inhumans as a likely domino piece that will contribute to what seems like the eventual "fall of Krakoa" if Marvel writers so wished. When the leaked pictures of Kamala Khan's death happened, it further showed that this run of Spider-Man is basically just a wishlist of the editors. They make contrived reasons for why Spider-Man is broken up with MJ...AGAIN. They make "everyone" hate Spider-Man again. They likely have Black Cat hook up with Spider-Man because Sony/MCU plan to make her the next love interest in the movies, and while I like Felicia Hardy, especially how she's written the past few years, the two will likely be broken up AGAIN once they milked their quota. And on top of that, they kill off Ms. Marvel in THIS book because all the other books are *trying* to have actual story writing as first priority over mandates (for the most part). It otherwise doesn't make any sense that her death is tied to Peter Parker. She isn't dying in her own book, where HER cast would be most impacted. She isn't dying (again actually) in Champions, where her superhero friends know her much better. Especially for the fact that ANOTHER Spider-Man, Miles Morales, is WAY more familiar with her than Peter Parker!!! Sorry, all *this* is why I hated to discover the leak of Ms. Marvel's death. I stopped reading Spider-Man after Nick Spencer's run (the only one I bought, and I liked as much as Dan Slott's run for different reasons). I didn't bother to pick up the new run after finding out what happened in the start. And now, I will likely never will again, because they refuse to let their characters grow and improve. And even with the argument of "status quo", I find it hard to argue that "miserable Peter Parker" is a compelling read, especially after all these years.
It felt more like some random hero dying than his dedicated sidekick, they never even did anything for her in that roll & the death was unnecessary, she could’ve just been reallocated again
It’s crazy how Marvel Comics saw the backlash to how DC treated Wally West in Heroes In Crisis & decided to do that but with Kamala Khan in utterly ruining & destroying a legacy hero that fans love Maybe someday Kamala can get a run as good as Jeremy Adams Wally? But that happened once Dan Didio was gone so what Marvel needs to do is fire editorial
That is not the same thing. Kamala didn't commit a murder suicide like wally did. Kamala sacrificed herself saving MJ. Kamala is just entering her own "Death of" story which is something all the greats have gone threw like spider man, Captain America, iron man, hulk, daredevil, cyclops, wolverine and etc
If a character has an ability that people didnt even know the character had, that is not a well written character. They need to reboot her from the ground up, even the disney plus show didnt like her abilities. Theyre going to reset her to match the mcu.
Kamala khan has always been a boring and subpar character only and only a avid follower of captain marvel, who has been an accomplice of detaining/imprisoning new mutants (which are children) as well as other things in the past. She hardly has no agency.
Giant plot hole: in the first Ms. Marvel comic where Kamala’s origin and that one shapeshift happened, it was also established she could heal herself. Something that might interfere a bit with that little self sacrifice stunt.
Well actually Ms. Marvels power to shapeshift went away/got harder to use because when she would it heal it would make harder to use. This was a huge part of her character development in realizing that she didn’t need to be someone else to be Ms. Marvel
They already have a “Classified” 4 issues mini solicited for September I think. About a 95% chance it’s going to be her return and they’ll announce it after the Fallen Friend one shot
This shit is why I don't read comics anymore. I'm so goddamn tired of these clear shock twists for the sake of being shock twists, especially when it's underutilized characters who deserved so much better.
Ms. Marvel does not die that way. She comes back to life and then she goes back in time, shape shifts into a plane and crashes into the World Trade Center! She was a terrorist this entire TIME! She will get rid of American scum like a hero!
Just don’t need to make Peter constantly losing to be Spider-man I always thought we have grown up as Peter grows and given his talent he should be somewhat related but is he suppose to be the one that has talent but no matter what he can’t win, so he’s comics positive version of “ Al Bundy” come on!
Seems like they just tried to subvert expectations and do a crazy twist on mary janes death. But then got cold feet and decided to spoil it ahead of time for damage control
I owned a Comic Book Store for 24 years and Ms.Marvel Kamala Khan was THE MOST HATED and DESPISED Character Marvel ever had! Despite being given her own book several times, she FLOPPED! I got to the point I wouldn't even order her Comic as I could never sell even a single copy! And every Team they put her on she would drag their sales down. I was selling 100 Avengers a month, they put her on the Team, I sold 10 copies of Avengers a month. Ms. Marvel is the Kiss of Death!
I'm glad to hear someone else talking about the manga hypocrisy, I'd also add manhwa. I love both of them, but they have just as many problems as comics
Ok first off all the racial/sexist shit needs to go away, obviously this death sucked but you cant have (american) writers bound in chains too afraid to kill off a woman or non white character. This death sucked because it had absolutely zero presence or impact in the story it took place
The bigger issue overall is that death is cheap in comics nowadays. They aren't even been served to advance any storyline and feels more like it's shoehorned in to feel like the plot has advanced when it really hasn't. Before you know it, Sinestro is back with a new ring and Captain America has been killed again. Must be June.
Because that is life. Things don’t follow some Greek ballad - they are chaotic and often nonsensical. Spider Man can just die from a bad/miscalculated swing any day, when he gets distracted by a pigeon flying by, and that would be as valid of a death as one laid to share his friends.
7:50 Alex Dewitt actually had a lot of personality and was well liked in her four issues of appearance. That's why she was so infamous because Gail Simone said that she a lot of fans in her short appearance. Interestingly, the writers have gone on record as saying she was based on Mary Jane Watson.
*Fun fact:* Speaking of Alexandra DeWitt and the refrigerator, (in the "Blackest Night" event), Alexandra, after turning into a Black Lantern zombie, trapped Kyle in a huge fridge made from the energy of her power ring. Looks like she wanted revenge on Kyle for using her death as an excuse to bang Donna Troy and Jade (Not that I blame Kyle for that 😉)
Ya those "clicks and talking points about Ms marvel" is not a good thing, because they are not good talking points and those clicks are not for good reasons
Zeb Wells enrages Benny, but every single point Comicstorian made in this video is completely valid. Even when I found out through “leaks” I was like meh… they’ve got to resurrect her because she has a film coming out. People losing their damn minds for no reason is what Marvel wanted. No super hero dies forever in comics.
This is worse than when DC killed off Jason Todd. Granted, Jason Todd was an annoying piece of crap at the time, but at least the fans had a say in it. Marvel won't let the fans have a say with Ms. Marvel.
It just makes me sad that her death wasn’t in Jersey City surrounded by the people who really care about her or related to her saving her hometown & it’s’ people. Just like Spider-man is your friendly neighborhood hero KK was Jersey City’s own hero, and they should have ended her story there instead of haphazardly ending it in Spider-man’s story
Nah she was fridged Benny, you don’t need to exist the entire time as a background character to be fridged. Like she shows up as a background character, no reason to be in the book other than to die. You could insert any other shapeshifter into the role and gotten the same result. Now she might be getting comic books on her death, it doesn’t change the fact she was fridged.
@@martelldozier3898 You don't understand what fridging is. Again, its not just that the character died, its that they died very cheaply for the sake of another character. Hell, it can even be that a character gets hurt for the sake of another character. Hence, the example of Bat Girl in the killing joke.
@Jazz Mazz question is who cares? It's a fictional story telling device. Is it something to get mad about ? These comics have gotten. Random people dying in function and people crying. Is a problem
@@martelldozier3898 ???Are you new to fandoms???? People can grow attached to stories and characters because they relate part of themselves to those characters.
The one thing that exhaust me with this kind of changes in comics is the whole content synergy between medias. It ruins the whole diversity of contents in comic books that's already established way before the movies/tv series were made. I know most people nowadays knows Marvel and DC characters through movies. Maybe that's their prologue to the media but changing certain elements in comics in order to be in-sync to the movies, jeopardize the character's history, IMO. Now, comic books are more like the continuity of what people see in the movies/tv series, rather than the sources of those media's story.
the only time i like the whole synergy angle in comics, is when a new movie or show comes out they put out a new number one for that character: for example kelly thompson's black widow run, she-hulk by rainbow rowell or matt fracton hawkeye (because of the avengers 2012 movie). the times where i don't like is that of changing the character to fit the main stream version. now to play devil's advocate isn't it more important to be in line with the main stream version of these characters, than staying in line to their comic book history: because everyone is looking at the main stream version anyways.
@@masqueradenoir5767 Peter: Don't worry I will. I took Ms Marvel's mask as a guilt trip memento that I sometimes sleep next to as a reminder of her sacrifice. Carol: Wait come ag- Peter: My spider-sense is tingling! I'll be on my way! Carol: Wait no come back what did you just say!?!
@paladinodlanier Morrison wanted Colossus to be part of his X-Men team (along with rogue and Moira mactaggert) but wasn't able to. In fact that's the reason why Emma frost has a secondary mutation where she can turn her skin into diamond. Joss whedon would later bring back Colossus in astonishing X-Men.
@paladinodlanier even still, whedon x men run is one of the best modern runs on the team. it's a great jumping on point to reading modern x men; it's one of the runs if you want to start to get into reading x men.
This whole thing is idiotic. They're so clearly just killing her to quickly bring her back, but her powers will be basically identical to her MCU nonsense-powers, all to try and get some eyes on Ms Marvel before "The Marvels" hits theaters. This only happened in a Spider-Man book because it's one of the titles that still sells for Marvel, if it happened in a Ms Marvel book, hardly anybody would have seen it. Her books just don't sell big numbers.
I think this is all going according to plan for Marvel. The worst publicity is no publicly. There is now a rush to buy this issue and other Kamala Kahn comics. Marvel's higher ups only care about sales, not their characters.
Thanks for pointing out that Ms. Marvel was effectively a D rank cast member for the run before this issue. It was a major waste of potential and making the character matter to Spidey readers. Its one more error I can see from sitting outside of the mess and not reading it. Now, I have to say her using her shape shifting to pose as MJ to protect her is pretty IC for her. Not having a better plan in case of stabbing like shifting her organs about wasn't smart but I can give that a small pass. Still over all, Wells Spidey run will probably be largely forgotten by the end of the day. Rabin wasn't a character most fans wanted. Heck, I ONLY recall him due to feeling like his original story was very stock story of it could have been any hero and felt much weaker than the other BND stories around it. The mystery was a dud. The large feeling like new writer smacks away old writer's efforts adds to fan ire. I won't be surprised if there is a new writer inside of 6 months.
Remember when robot chicken made a sketch about green arrows funeral and Batman went on a rant about how almost all the heroes have died and came back?
Its a marketing ploy...simple as that. Ms Marvel has NO current comic run, her movie is coming up and they need to do something..."BOMBASTIC" to build hype. Which would cause a BUNCH of Controversey. Then they bring her back, possibly with her new MCU powers just in time for her movie to drop🤷♂️. Its business simple as that
Well considering that Deku was told when he started his train with his quirk that it could develop new powers that argument falls flat. Though I also like Miles getting a new power that sets him apart from just a spider clone.
Comic book deaths have no meaning anymore. When Barry Allen died and seemingly stayed dead it was horrific. Today they die and return in the same story arc. Very little to care about.
I appreciate the calm rationale that you gave this. Some could of call us all weirdo and what not, but you handle it like a champ! Haha BUT WHY WASN”T SHE IN THE BOOK!?!?! Haha
"Ms Marvel dying means women arent welcome in comic books" This is a terrible take away considering more than half the cast of -Marvel- comic book characters in general has died at some point.
If rumors are true and they killing her to bring her back as a mutant so its allign with the MCU, then this is a BIG issue. As Benny said many takes were taken from this executive decision and they are valid. This was terrible handled.
I think the biggest problem with any big character dying in comics, is that it betrays the pitfalls of serialised storytelling, at some point we can kind of just know and accept that these characters are coming back, it's a given at this point, especially considering the state of the Xmen and where they're headed and the fact that Kamala is an Inhuman (someone fact check that by all means), now I love comics just like the guy next to me (there's not actually anyone here, I'm sat alone in my flat typing this), but more and more I find myself gravitating towards more independent titles and standalone projects. I recently have started reading Darwyn Cooke's "New Frontier" (the one about the DC universe in the 50s and the love letter to the stupidly sweet silver age) and that has weight and merit and authenticity because whilst it has all the serialised things we eat up, it stands by itself alone on its own two feet and what happens to the characters has 1. stakes and 2. weight. In fact, whilst I'd encourage everyone to read what they love, I doubly encourage them to take a look at the less serial side of comics (even if it's still all the marvel, dc, etc.) there's a lot to be gained there and nothing to be lost, rather than just getting bogged down in this or that controversy in whatever new writers have done to this or that character. Also let's not go after the people that create this, as one guy here has said, and I'm paraphrasing, "the real enemies are the corporate big wigs making all th money decisions"! PEACE!!
Perhaps one of the most infamous fridging moments in comic book history is Barbara Gordon being paralyzed in The Killing Joke. Although it is understandable that many fans hate that a character as iconic as Batgirl would be left in a wheelchair in a story in which she is not even the protagonist, there are two important things to keep in mind. 1. By the time The Killing Joke was made, Barbara was no longer a major character. After the first Crisis reboot, DC decided to make Batman a more lone figure, leaving Alfred, Jason, and sometimes Dick as the only members of the Bat-Family. Due to this, many former Gotham heroes (such as Batwoman, Betty Kane or Ace) were erased from the canon, and Batgirl was retired by giving her a farewell comic, so she was now just a civilian who made sporadic and unimportant appearances. Therefore, it is understandable that DC no longer gave the character any value other than serving as motivation for the other characters. Anyway, I bet if Alan Moore had written The Killing Joke in the late '70s or early '80s, there is no way they wouldn't have let him cripple Barbara. 2. Something that many people forget when criticizing The Killing Joke is the fact that Moore did not want it canon while writing it, serving more as an imaginatory story like "Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?". He didn't expect his graphic novel would fascinate the editors so much, they would introduce it in the main continiuity. In fact, one of the reasons Moore ended up regretting his involvement in The Killing Joke was how he accidentally made Barbara permanently crippled. That said, I am not stating that what they did to Barbara in that comic was a good writing choice. I am just saying that there are more complex explanations to cases like this rather than just "pure misogony"
It reminds of what Dan Slotto Blocktavius once said: "An enraged fan is an engaged fan." This is precisely the problem with modern Spider-Man comics. Wells and Lowe do not care about quality, they just want engagement.
This wasn’t a problem. It’s only a problem if you’re obsessed with race. She was never that great of a character and everyone getting upset just sound like a bunch of racists lol
It's definitely a *variation* of fridging, of all the characters they could have sacrificed they grab someone who hadn't been in the story. It counts as fridging for the purpose of propelling sales--she was killed to push *us* to buy a specific line of comics. (Not arguing just suggesting how it could count) You're mad mad, and I am absolutely here for it, though. The problem is shit like what they've pulled with Kamala makes me want to *not* read those comics, precisely because it's a crash grab.
I don’t think having Ms. Marvel play a more prominent role in the story would have made this any better because of the following reasons: •She died in someone else’s book whom she barely has a connection with •She, a Pakistani super hero, died using a power she’s apparently not used for years just for a fake out and for a random white woman whom she has no connection to •That power was something she stopped using because it was thematically important for her character being tied to her own insecurities with her own race •She died like a bitch to some rando villain a majority of people have never heard •She died for a marketing stunt and possibly just for MCU synergy
True, but her appearing in the book more often could have given the potential for Kamala to actually form a connection with peter. The villain sucked and the plan was stupid. Wasn't the villain mystically binded to MJ? How did he get it so wrong???
One thing that bugs me about Kamala's "heroic sacrifice" is that Rabin already branded Mary Jane with blood glyphs, which is the source of her current "jackpot" powers... So there's no reason for Rabin should have been fooled by Kamala's inexplicable switcheroo since he basically used the magic version of 2PA
I haven't been able to afford to keep up with comics, lately. I adore Kama and her stories. It saddened me to hear that she recently died. When I finally heard HOW she died, yeah it upset me (outrage marketing is highly effective). But I also hope they bring her back better than ever.
I really want a comic where the venom symbiote deadpool uses for a time in Deadpool kills the marvel universe finds it's way to Peter and reveals that all thats happened to him is because of his horrid writers and it drives him insane. Then we get a comic book called spiderman kills his writers and its used as a reset point for spiderman.
I was like 8 years old and I remember News Outlets talking about the Death of Superman. Now? It's a cheap way to retcon characters or eliminate comic lines that aren't selling.
The miss marvel death leaked online a couple days before they announced it. I dunno if more info came out since the issue released, but I remember at the time seeing people say the reason it was announced was because of that leak
It feels like all media these days is more about attention and rage baits rather than actually good writing... short term gains so you can make a big splash.
Having the moment in Spider-Man makes more sense with your idea that she's going to be revived in the X-Men. Put the death and resurrection in the best selling books ahead of the new #1 for the movie. Maximize eyes on the moments.
I've Heard Rumors That She Will Come Back As A Mutant. So This looks Like A Reboot To Make Her Character Square With That In The MCU. However The Way Marvel Went About It Wasn't Exactly The Smartest.
The worst villain in marvel comics is Marvels editors
They're also Peter Parker's greatest nemesis. Who would've thought Green Goblin or Doc Ock would get defeated like that?
@@Unknown23430 defeated like what?
Nah it's Paul
@@ccelite3782 both pual and marvel editors
Don't forget the writers, too, some of them are downright idiots
So, instead of her dying saving Jersey City or something with her friends and family like Yusuf, Zoe, Bruno, Carol or Miles, she dies fixing Peter's problems with people she barely knew. Awful, just awful.
I like to think that she died doing what a hero does: saving another life.
I can see Wolverine sacrifice himself to save someone in Guatemala or something.
It's what heroes do
@@BrakSplash I like that she died being heroic but having it happen with none of her traditional allies around like Miles or Carol or even Cyclops and not even having it in her own book or an event comic just feels wrong. Imagine if when they killed Captain Marvel back in the day it hadn't been in his own miniseries but in a random issue of Hulk or something.
@tashaem1 I understand. But I think I'm okay with it because Ms. Marvel just didn't get killed like Doctor Strange off panel and assassinated.
She knew she was going to die and did it anyway. Not for her friends or for her hometown. But to save one person.
And I respect her character for that.
But I can also understand why people don't like this
What did she fix for Peter? Except sacrificing herself to keep MJ safe and causing Peter grief, what did she fix? She was used in the most awful way ever.
@@tashaem1 Are you really comparing Ms. Marvel with Captain America? Ms. Marvel is a minor character that the woke have been trying to push for many years, without success, failing even in her own videogame, whereas Captain America is literally one of the pillars of all Marvel. She, dying randomly, is what usually happens to minor characters, and we've seen WAY better characters being killed horribly before.
I don't get people upset about this. It's an unrelatable, boring, annoying, ugly character, that never had a proper design because editors were trying to create something inclusive instead of something interesting.
Ms. Marvel's death is only the symptom of a larger problem with Marvel: Marvel Editorial.
True
You can blame the fake marvel fan this lame character is their fan base same fan base that don't read the comics
Truly the ultimate Evil
@@chukozkorrea714 what?
@@chukozkorrea714 I think someone is missing a few words in 😮sentence
As a big Spider-Man fan and Ms. Marvel fan my biggest problem wasnt even Kamala's death, because hardly no one in mainline comics truly "dies". My issues comes from the fact that Marvel has this fixation of not allowing adult peter to have any sense of stability. I get that the life of spiderman is not supposed to be easy and should come with hardships, but at this point it feels like beating a dead horse.
Edit: To clarify what i mean. It's one thing to not have Peter and MJ be in a relationship, or to have her be with someone else. But to have the death of a kid on peter's hands when it didnt need to happen in the first place is overkill.
Marvel has to have their spider whipping boy and DC have to have their Wally Flash whipping boy. Both love tormenting these two characters.
Agreed about Peter. Peter can't even go to work on time because some nut job is always shooting up downtown New York and he has to take a detour because no one else could be bothered to.
Simply put, the young must die so that Peter can never feel old...
Even Stan Lee had Peter grow up and be happy at the end of the Animated Series. "You're not the guy I've been writing all these years." was meant in a good way.
@@jspur22 hell even going back to the comics, Peter ages and grows exponentially more in those first 100 issues than he has in the past 15 years. Spencer’s run literally defined him as “in his mid-twenties”, mean while Lee’s story wrote Peter through high school and college. You can’t even argue it’s because of Mephisto because they establish he didn’t take years away, he just changed the events of their wedding. You’re telling me the past 40-50 years of SM events happen in the span of what, 7 years?
As a Ms Marvel fan this just felt like a weird decision. I feel like a story focused on Kamala and her supporting cast would have been a better way to end this era of Ms Marvel than having her "killed off" in front of a bunch of characters that don't know her. It seems obvious that they're bringing her back with her MCU toolkit, as the comics are working harder to synergize with the movies, but this choice just felt like it came out of nowhere.
I hope not. I like Ms Marvel's goofy kit. Swapping it out with vaguely described hard light energy makes it more boring.
@@yiklongtay6029 her powers in the show are just “Quantum Bands”, definitely places her more closely with the standard “Captain Marvel” template than being a more unique hero.
"synergize" is a fun way to say copy the now extremely mediocre MCU content (increasingly often just poor adaptations of the original comic book characters) for 1000% marketing purposes, possibly as an editorial dictate by the parent company
I actually find it an interesting concept to explore, when heroes leave their cities to assist other heroes they are risking their lives for people that barely know them. Thats the risk that comes from leaving her territory
what if they did where everytime ms marvel dies she returns to become cacoon again and returned to kamala when she just gained her powers including her memories return to her youngerself. so she becomes newbie with expectation of expert. she will start to feel pressure to become her exprienced self and try to do thing her "future self" can do but she couldn't yet. she knew these heroes for while so heroes and friends treat her like they knew each other but she feels weird because she "never knew them". i think there is always benefit to the situation.
She honestly just could have been the only person defending Peter’s choices. That all it could have taken to give her something more to be than a cameo in the book.
Right, which would set up spidey for some side adventures to assist her.
I actually really like this idea. Don't make it fan girlly either. Straight up have her be the voice of reason.
@@TakarieZanthat is what she is usually depicted as too, she pushes other heroes to do better
No matter what age you’re in, the Fridge is strong. Simultaneously assassinating a character while assassinating a character. Well, I’m not gonna fall for your trap, Marvel. I’m still going to like MJ and think she should be with Peter. Out of spite.
Same here brother.
How they got MJ's character so wrong is mind-boggling.
@@emperorhakimiv7745 well when your writing a story to intentionally get people angry so they will talk about it its a lot easier
I hate Mary Jane man, not her character in general but how they write her and shit and the whole thing with Paul is just stupid, since the kids are like 4 or 3, she fucked Paul months after she sent Peter back, I have no empathy for her anymore.
Ms. Marvel does not die that way. She comes back to life and then she goes back in time, shape shifts into a plane and crashes into the World Trade Center! She was a terrorist this entire TIME! She will get rid of American scum like a hero "in her point of view"!
You know what, this is actually reminding me of the time that Peter turned into a spider and gave birth to himself so he could have organic webshooters like he does in the Raimi movies. I think you're absolutely spot on, really good analysis.
Wtf
@DatboyKB Spectacular Spider-Man Disassembled. It was your typical Man-Spider story. Only Spider-Man transformed completely into a giant spider. He apparently died as a spider and burst out of the exoskeleton as himself again.
Wtf
Drugs😂😂😂
It's still better than what's happening now. "She's a sister to me." That'd never happen in comics, and the guy didn't care.
She should have had her own mini arc in the story. She should have also had a conversation with Peter where he told her how much Mary Jane mean to him or something that lead her to doing what she did. It would have been some kind of pay off at least.
Yeah that would have been cool
Ms Marvel dying was so she could come back as a mutant with the same powers she has in the MCU. Simple as that.
Somehow I feel like that's SO much worse...
She's an Inhuman. Not a mutant, Inhuman hater.😠💢
I hate how plausible this is 😔
She was originally supposed to be a mutant... They changed it because of Fox's handling of X-Men.
@@johnsantos507 Chill lil bro, I like every obscure human looking race in comics from the new gods to the otsutski clan. I’ll remind you when it happens though
I was giving this run a chance, for real. I liked how it started with Tombstone, but it was kinda middling after that. But killing Kamala Khan for no reason in a comic she wasnt a big part in, yeah I really hated that.
A little more context on Mrs. Marvel's shapeshifting, it's technically not a forgotten power.
In actuality is's a power the Kamala
A: Doesn't like to use. That's like half the point of her initial run. If she's going to be a hero she's going to be one as herself not disguised as other people, and
B: It disrupts her other powers to an extent that she finds it useless to use in combat situations.
Thinking back to when she was shot in her first volume, shouldn't her wound have healed when she turned back into Kamala or did that magic blade have a death curse attached to it?
@Aaron Kelly I don't remember what issue but her shape-shifting powers at some point started taking up more energy than the rest of her powers, making it harder for her to heal and stretch. It was actually believed she lost them until another writer just forgot or didn't know that happened and had her use them.
@@89Crono yeah they mention that in the first volume, in the bodega she turns into her mom to look like a normal person or something to the cops but realizes she isn’t healing
Thank you! The intro story is about her learning she doesn’t have to be Carol Danvers to a hero and she can be herself.
This feels like the "Death of Iris West" in season 3 of the Flash. Except Barry meets Iris for the first time the day before she dies.
And she is an actual interesting/likeable character unlike Iris in the cw flash
The most frustrating thing about this is that not only was this a cynical move done for the sake of marketting, but it's not even just marketing for Ms Marvel. If it were about that, there are so many better ways to have killed her off. If they are gonna bring her back outright as a mutant then they could have killed her off with the X-men. She and Cyclops have a history thanks to the Champions. But instead they killed her off in Spider-Man to bolster that book's sales. They couldn't even let her death be the only goal. Which is why I think this is actually next-level fridging. They have demonstrated so little regard for her as a character that they viewed killing her off as "two birds, one stone."
I know that characters die all the time but this feels so uniquely ugly. Both because of the circumstances of her death in the story, but also because of the meta reasons why. Marvel didn't even do this because they thought no one would care. They did it because they knew people WOULD care. They WANTED to get people upset, they wanted to stoke ire and hurt and toxicity. They're hurting their audience, trying to make them worse, trying to encourage them to participate in the destructive rage-cycle of internet outrage. And it's just... ugly.
Benny getting legit angry about this plot point makes me glad im subbed to this channel.
Thanks for explaining exactly what's wrong with this run.
Their just killing her off so they can bring her back as a mutant like the mcu version of the character and not have her be a inhuman shape-shifter anymore
Shape shifter?! Kamala Khan's power has a stretch ability like Reed Richards.
@@johnsantos507 true but super stretching is shape shifting
@@blackmailerhack3056 I thought shape shifting is a ability is the same as Mystique from X-Men.
Her creator didn't want her to be an Inhuman anyway.
@@KingShibe Inhumans hater her creator is.😠
She USED to be able to shape shift. She specifically loses the ability to do that after an injury.
I guess the writer of this issue forgot? Or maybe she regained it somehow.
@@christianwelch4206 One of the reasons she lost the ability to do that were the writers resolving that she no longer wanted to hide and be someone else. So this was a failure on both a story line and a character themes sense
@@ajaylivingston1417 wow
@@christianwelch4206 Isn't part of the editor's job to inform the writer of the continuity and how other characters fit into the book? Nick Lowe really should've caught this...
Or maybe Zeb Wells should've bothered to actually read Ms Marvel comics.... since he's working on the movie..............
@@davidbjacobs3598 Unfortunately, some editors just don't care enough to do that.
My theory is that Ms. Marvel will be back between September-November before the release of the Marvels Movie. There will also be two big changes to her character. One being that her powers are more closely to her movie counterpart and her being a mutant. Also let's not forget, that according to a lot of comic youtubers, the marvel comics are advertisements for the movies and who is going to be in a movie during the holidays.
That is exactly what I was thinking. No way Marvel actually keeps Ms. Marvel dead with the Marvels movie about to come out. This is more likely a way to build more excitement around a reboot of Ms. Marvel with MCU powers. She will either be resurrected, probably on Krakoa with an x-gene added because Cyclops still remembers his history with her when his time displaced younger self was a champion. Maybe the X-men resurrection protocols can’t recreate inhuman powers and she gets energy powers because she didn’t have an x-gene to copy and the way new x-genes are expressed in a developing teen can be unpredictable. They might have been able to pull it off if this wasn’t so random, predictably triggering and done right before a movie with the Ms. Marvel comes out
@@brianferreira7277 This is what I'm thinking. Either they can't recreate inhuman powers and have to change her to a mutant, or she gets caught up in some dumb plot line where the ressurection protocols get compromised somehow and she gets turned into a mutant.
Also, in one of the latest X-men comics Scott literally asked Emma Frost to revive her.
To take your theory a little further, they will make Peter ask for her resurrection, which will be yet another out-of-character Spider-Man effort to fix something that’s none of his business to fix.
Not another One More Day......
@@Marco_Onyxheart it will be "One More Marvelous Day"
On this one, I don't think it's out of character for Peter to ask for someone to fix this. She did save Mary Jane, I think it fair for Peter to want to pay her back somehow.
@@JC4Stuffs MJ should lose her own BS powers trying to resurrect her, because there’s no point to her having any already. Doubt they’ll go with this because it makes some sense and they want to have none
Yeah why force this connection?
I’m 75% certain MJ was going to die but editorial were too scared to go through with it. I’m even more certain they “killed” Ms.Marvel just to bring her back with that MCU synergy.
I rather would have MJ die with all the character assassination this book has done to her. At least someone can bring her back in a later run and say that the MJ of this run was just a clone or something
I think the biggest issue was that it wasn't groundbreaking or impactful enough, like the Hulk, Dr. Strange, or Storm. I wonder if it's Aunt May or Mary Jane. It would be more impactful because we have known these characters for a long time. Plus, according to Marvel logic, Marvel heroes or villains don't stay dead for long.
Aunt May wouldn't either, she's old as shit
If MJ had died then the fans would just scream that they did all the character assassination they could to kill her off, proving that the writers and editors hate MJ for absolutely no reason. If May had died then it invalidates everything, because they would have had died with May and Peter never making up for the dumb storyline that is happening right now.
@Jonathan Chevez I'm angry that they keep dangling this possible relationship between her and Peter Parker. I mean, she had Iron Man armor, superpowers, and a duo with Black Cat. They're just doing all of this to make her relevant, but what makes her more relevant is for her to die. I think her death would be a testimony to Peter Parker for not taking people's lives for granted and for being a better Spider-Man.
Dr. Strange was never dead. He literally came back months later
@@KingShibe well there a comic book series where Clea Strange takes over for Docter Strange. She actually becomes the new Sorcer Supreme of Earth.
The last time I heard that Wolverine was gonna die, my reaction was, quite literally, 'I wonder how long that'll last.' That's how I feel about this.
The funny thing is, I knew about the deaths of green arrow, batman, doctor strange and the justice league already cause I read those comics. The only place I've heard about the death of Mrs Marvel is comicstorian.
I think he holds back so much in these videos. I wish he would just tell us how he really feels.
My biggest problem is that Ms Marvel had lost her ability to shapeshift like that awhile ago in her own series.
I really hated this death for a lot of reasons. Like @Comicstorian mentioned, she barely showed up in Spider-Man's run AT ALL in the lead up to her death. The way she died is a variant form of "fridging" in the way the death was written. And while editorially, I know "why" Marvel staff is doing this (to likely revive her into a mutant on Krakoa to more likely match the show), I find that even MORE hurtful. For one, I started reading Ms. Marvel shortly after her debut. At the time, it was harder to get into reading Marvel comics than DC comics doing their Rebirth start, and as a new comic book reader, she felt like a good entry point. The writing and Kamala Khan's antics also felt like how people starting with Spider-Man must have felt, with themes of growing up and struggling with life values and balancing those responsibilities. Especially more so when at the time, Peter Parker wasn't quite his typical status quo.
I liked her Inhuman powers of stretching that was similar to Mr. Fantastic, but have slight differences. I was miffed when her MCU show drastically changed her powers to light constructs, but gave it a pass, since stretching SFX are still likely not quite great in live action, especially on TV budgets. But after the show finished, I was INCREDIBLY worried they will change her powers and Inhuman origins in the mainline comics. Her powers symbolized how she felt at the time of the story, like how she felt the need to look *exactly* like Carol Danvers in her debut at first, or shrunk when she felt small, or felt "bent out of shape" so to speak. Hardlight constructs just don't feel the same. And with changing her powers, let me ask...how long and how well did it go with the readers for Peter Parker when they changed his webs to be ORGANIC like the Sam Raimi movies?
And as for the mutant thing...to be honest, there is a MUCH cleaner way they could have made her (and other Inhumans) mutants. Just explain in a discovery that Inhumans are an offshoot forced evolution of mutants. The Avengers 1,000,000 BC basically revealed mutants being around since nearly the dawn of man. And then just explain that the Inhumans who survived the Kree experiments were *because* they happen to had been mutant humans. And to further explain the way Terrigen mist is good for Inhumans but bad for "mutants" like in X-Men vs Inhumans, it's because the experimentation is still harmful, and Inhumans "evolved" to tolerate and benefit from it. This way, it would be a simple "revelation" story, they wouldn't have to kill and revive Ms. Marvel, they could use the excuse to help verify how many "Inhumans" are left (likely just keep the Royal Family, Ms. Marvel, and Moon Girl around), and they can still use the Inhumans as a likely domino piece that will contribute to what seems like the eventual "fall of Krakoa" if Marvel writers so wished.
When the leaked pictures of Kamala Khan's death happened, it further showed that this run of Spider-Man is basically just a wishlist of the editors. They make contrived reasons for why Spider-Man is broken up with MJ...AGAIN. They make "everyone" hate Spider-Man again. They likely have Black Cat hook up with Spider-Man because Sony/MCU plan to make her the next love interest in the movies, and while I like Felicia Hardy, especially how she's written the past few years, the two will likely be broken up AGAIN once they milked their quota. And on top of that, they kill off Ms. Marvel in THIS book because all the other books are *trying* to have actual story writing as first priority over mandates (for the most part). It otherwise doesn't make any sense that her death is tied to Peter Parker. She isn't dying in her own book, where HER cast would be most impacted. She isn't dying (again actually) in Champions, where her superhero friends know her much better. Especially for the fact that ANOTHER Spider-Man, Miles Morales, is WAY more familiar with her than Peter Parker!!!
Sorry, all *this* is why I hated to discover the leak of Ms. Marvel's death. I stopped reading Spider-Man after Nick Spencer's run (the only one I bought, and I liked as much as Dan Slott's run for different reasons). I didn't bother to pick up the new run after finding out what happened in the start. And now, I will likely never will again, because they refuse to let their characters grow and improve. And even with the argument of "status quo", I find it hard to argue that "miserable Peter Parker" is a compelling read, especially after all these years.
I agree with you on the power change and I hope they keep it the same if she gets revived.
Yeah, you pretty much ticked off everything.
It felt more like some random hero dying than his dedicated sidekick, they never even did anything for her in that roll & the death was unnecessary, she could’ve just been reallocated again
Someone get this man a reward for predicting the future
It’s crazy how Marvel Comics saw the backlash to how DC treated Wally West in Heroes In Crisis & decided to do that but with Kamala Khan in utterly ruining & destroying a legacy hero that fans love
Maybe someday Kamala can get a run as good as Jeremy Adams Wally? But that happened once Dan Didio was gone so what Marvel needs to do is fire editorial
That is not the same thing. Kamala didn't commit a murder suicide like wally did. Kamala sacrificed herself saving MJ.
Kamala is just entering her own "Death of" story which is something all the greats have gone threw like spider man, Captain America, iron man, hulk, daredevil, cyclops, wolverine and etc
@@CryptidZeker415Wally didn't commit a murder suicide
If a character has an ability that people didnt even know the character had, that is not a well written character. They need to reboot her from the ground up, even the disney plus show didnt like her abilities. Theyre going to reset her to match the mcu.
Kamala khan has always been a boring and subpar character only and only a avid follower of captain marvel, who has been an accomplice of detaining/imprisoning new mutants (which are children) as well as other things in the past. She hardly has no agency.
@@CryptidZeker415 I got retconned to being revealed that Savitar killed everyone and framed Wally
Giant plot hole: in the first Ms. Marvel comic where Kamala’s origin and that one shapeshift happened, it was also established she could heal herself. Something that might interfere a bit with that little self sacrifice stunt.
Well actually Ms. Marvels power to shapeshift went away/got harder to use because when she would it heal it would make harder to use. This was a huge part of her character development in realizing that she didn’t need to be someone else to be Ms. Marvel
Greetings from the future, Benny. You were 100% correct about the X-Men tie in. Someone owes you a cookie.
They already have a “Classified” 4 issues mini solicited for September I think. About a 95% chance it’s going to be her return and they’ll announce it after the Fallen Friend one shot
This shit is why I don't read comics anymore. I'm so goddamn tired of these clear shock twists for the sake of being shock twists, especially when it's underutilized characters who deserved so much better.
I was so upset with this issue. Even my dog. Apparently he was so mad that he took the issue from my hands and ripped it apart. Good boy
😂🤣
That’s kind of funny
Ms. Marvel does not die that way. She comes back to life and then she goes back in time, shape shifts into a plane and crashes into the World Trade Center! She was a terrorist this entire TIME! She will get rid of American scum like a hero!
You called it a month ago. Looks like resurrection is in the works for her.
Just don’t need to make Peter constantly losing to be Spider-man I always thought we have grown up as Peter grows and given his talent he should be somewhat related but is he suppose to be the one that has talent but no matter what he can’t win, so he’s comics positive version of “ Al Bundy” come on!
“She’s NOT in the BOOK!” 😂 thank u for the laughs
I love Comicstorian Reaction. 😂👍💯
"WHY IS SHE NOT IN THE BOOK?!!!!"
I just see her coming back to life to become a mutant to match her mcu counterpart
Seems like they just tried to subvert expectations and do a crazy twist on mary janes death. But then got cold feet and decided to spoil it ahead of time for damage control
I owned a Comic Book Store for 24 years and Ms.Marvel Kamala Khan was THE MOST HATED and DESPISED Character Marvel ever had! Despite being given her own book several times, she FLOPPED! I got to the point I wouldn't even order her Comic as I could never sell even a single copy! And every Team they put her on she would drag their sales down. I was selling 100 Avengers a month, they put her on the Team, I sold 10 copies of Avengers a month. Ms. Marvel is the Kiss of Death!
I'm glad to hear someone else talking about the manga hypocrisy, I'd also add manhwa. I love both of them, but they have just as many problems as comics
Goodness gracious dude, your video broke down the argument so well. Great job, loved it 👍🏼
Ok first off all the racial/sexist shit needs to go away, obviously this death sucked but you cant have (american) writers bound in chains too afraid to kill off a woman or non white character. This death sucked because it had absolutely zero presence or impact in the story it took place
Didn't even know she was sick.
The bigger issue overall is that death is cheap in comics nowadays. They aren't even been served to advance any storyline and feels more like it's shoehorned in to feel like the plot has advanced when it really hasn't. Before you know it, Sinestro is back with a new ring and Captain America has been killed again. Must be June.
Because that is life. Things don’t follow some Greek ballad - they are chaotic and often nonsensical.
Spider Man can just die from a bad/miscalculated swing any day, when he gets distracted by a pigeon flying by, and that would be as valid of a death as one laid to share his friends.
@@kingol4801 But comic books are not life. They're fiction. And in fiction, a character dying because lolrandom is just bad writing.
7:50 Alex Dewitt actually had a lot of personality and was well liked in her four issues of appearance. That's why she was so infamous because Gail Simone said that she a lot of fans in her short appearance. Interestingly, the writers have gone on record as saying she was based on Mary Jane Watson.
*Fun fact:* Speaking of Alexandra DeWitt and the refrigerator, (in the "Blackest Night" event), Alexandra, after turning into a Black Lantern zombie, trapped Kyle in a huge fridge made from the energy of her power ring. Looks like she wanted revenge on Kyle for using her death as an excuse to bang Donna Troy and Jade (Not that I blame Kyle for that 😉)
Honestly, I blame Kyle for that.
Ya those "clicks and talking points about Ms marvel" is not a good thing, because they are not good talking points and those clicks are not for good reasons
Zeb Wells enrages Benny, but every single point Comicstorian made in this video is completely valid. Even when I found out through “leaks” I was like meh… they’ve got to resurrect her because she has a film coming out. People losing their damn minds for no reason is what Marvel wanted. No super hero dies forever in comics.
This is worse than when DC killed off Jason Todd. Granted, Jason Todd was an annoying piece of crap at the time, but at least the fans had a say in it. Marvel won't let the fans have a say with Ms. Marvel.
It just makes me sad that her death wasn’t in Jersey City surrounded by the people who really care about her or related to her saving her hometown & it’s’ people. Just like Spider-man is your friendly neighborhood hero KK was Jersey City’s own hero, and they should have ended her story there instead of haphazardly ending it in Spider-man’s story
Yeah. She'll be back, but its a really weak first "big event" death for the character.
They likely forgot that in her original form, Kamala has a healing factor on par with the Wolverine family.
Place your bets place your bets, how long are they going to let her stay dead?
My money is around November 10 give or take
@@joshuarichmond2688 Most likely, yes. They'll probably swap out her original powers for her MCU ones, as well.
"I sense the irony everyone" 😂 good stuff man! Loved the video
Nah she was fridged Benny, you don’t need to exist the entire time as a background character to be fridged. Like she shows up as a background character, no reason to be in the book other than to die. You could insert any other shapeshifter into the role and gotten the same result. Now she might be getting comic books on her death, it doesn’t change the fact she was fridged.
True
So women can't d ie in media ? Only men ? I'm sure more males die in comics and reality.
@@martelldozier3898 You don't understand what fridging is. Again, its not just that the character died, its that they died very cheaply for the sake of another character. Hell, it can even be that a character gets hurt for the sake of another character. Hence, the example of Bat Girl in the killing joke.
@Jazz Mazz question is who cares? It's a fictional story telling device. Is it something to get mad about ? These comics have gotten. Random people dying in function and people crying. Is a problem
@@martelldozier3898 ???Are you new to fandoms????
People can grow attached to stories and characters because they relate part of themselves to those characters.
The one thing that exhaust me with this kind of changes in comics is the whole content synergy between medias. It ruins the whole diversity of contents in comic books that's already established way before the movies/tv series were made. I know most people nowadays knows Marvel and DC characters through movies. Maybe that's their prologue to the media but changing certain elements in comics in order to be in-sync to the movies, jeopardize the character's history, IMO. Now, comic books are more like the continuity of what people see in the movies/tv series, rather than the sources of those media's story.
the only time i like the whole synergy angle in comics, is when a new movie or show comes out they put out a new number one for that character: for example kelly thompson's black widow run, she-hulk by rainbow rowell or matt fracton hawkeye (because of the avengers 2012 movie). the times where i don't like is that of changing the character to fit the main stream version. now to play devil's advocate isn't it more important to be in line with the main stream version of these characters, than staying in line to their comic book history: because everyone is looking at the main stream version anyways.
They really have no idea what to do with Ms. Marvel, or any of the other marvel characters for that matter.
I think it would be interesting to have Carol Danvers blame spider man for her death
Yes. Just make Carol borderline irrationally angry at Spider-man.
@@jazzmazz9214 Carol: Parker that girl died because she was helping you save your wife if you don't get Justice for her I will with your blood
@@masqueradenoir5767 Peter: Don't worry I will. I took Ms Marvel's mask as a guilt trip memento that I sometimes sleep next to as a reminder of her sacrifice.
Carol: Wait come ag-
Peter: My spider-sense is tingling! I'll be on my way!
Carol: Wait no come back what did you just say!?!
I kinda wish deaths in comics were more permanent, but I kinda understand why they don’t
I think a majority of comics outside Marvel and Dc have permanent deaths
Edit: in Archie Sonic, 99.9% of the characters that die stay dead.
@paladinodlanier I thought it was Whedon who brought back Piotr.
@paladinodlanier Morrison wanted Colossus to be part of his X-Men team (along with rogue and Moira mactaggert) but wasn't able to. In fact that's the reason why Emma frost has a secondary mutation where she can turn her skin into diamond. Joss whedon would later bring back Colossus in astonishing X-Men.
@ZyairrBissoon they are. Just not in marvel and DC.
@paladinodlanier even still, whedon x men run is one of the best modern runs on the team. it's a great jumping on point to reading modern x men; it's one of the runs if you want to start to get into reading x men.
This whole thing is idiotic. They're so clearly just killing her to quickly bring her back, but her powers will be basically identical to her MCU nonsense-powers, all to try and get some eyes on Ms Marvel before "The Marvels" hits theaters.
This only happened in a Spider-Man book because it's one of the titles that still sells for Marvel, if it happened in a Ms Marvel book, hardly anybody would have seen it. Her books just don't sell big numbers.
I think this is all going according to plan for Marvel. The worst publicity is no publicly. There is now a rush to buy this issue and other Kamala Kahn comics. Marvel's higher ups only care about sales, not their characters.
Wow
This crazy I've been following you since you had the red dye in your hair and now you got the whole Skywalker thing going on
Thanks for pointing out that Ms. Marvel was effectively a D rank cast member for the run before this issue. It was a major waste of potential and making the character matter to Spidey readers. Its one more error I can see from sitting outside of the mess and not reading it. Now, I have to say her using her shape shifting to pose as MJ to protect her is pretty IC for her. Not having a better plan in case of stabbing like shifting her organs about wasn't smart but I can give that a small pass. Still over all, Wells Spidey run will probably be largely forgotten by the end of the day. Rabin wasn't a character most fans wanted. Heck, I ONLY recall him due to feeling like his original story was very stock story of it could have been any hero and felt much weaker than the other BND stories around it. The mystery was a dud. The large feeling like new writer smacks away old writer's efforts adds to fan ire. I won't be surprised if there is a new writer inside of 6 months.
Thank you for your hard work hope you have a good day or night
Remember when robot chicken made a sketch about green arrows funeral and Batman went on a rant about how almost all the heroes have died and came back?
Its a marketing ploy...simple as that. Ms Marvel has NO current comic run, her movie is coming up and they need to do something..."BOMBASTIC" to build hype.
Which would cause a BUNCH of Controversey. Then they bring her back, possibly with her new MCU powers just in time for her movie to drop🤷♂️. Its business simple as that
Well considering that Deku was told when he started his train with his quirk that it could develop new powers that argument falls flat. Though I also like Miles getting a new power that sets him apart from just a spider clone.
Also, this was just an expansion of a venom blast construct ability Miles already had.
"She's not in the book" is my new favorite rant!
They killed her in spiderman so more people would know, if they killed her in her own book, like 10 people would know
Exactly. She had virtually no fan base until very recently.
Lol😂
R.I.P. Miss Marvel. You were funny and big fanfic writing nerd
Comic book deaths have no meaning anymore. When Barry Allen died and seemingly stayed dead it was horrific. Today they die and return in the same story arc. Very little to care about.
I appreciate the calm rationale that you gave this. Some could of call us all weirdo and what not, but you handle it like a champ! Haha BUT WHY WASN”T SHE IN THE BOOK!?!?! Haha
I really hope they add Paul in the MCU's Spider-Man 4. I think everyone would absolutely lose it.
It'll be super funny though if they did that man
I believe they kill her so when the movie comes out she returns with the MCU powers
Yeah, it felt off she died in a Spiderman comic. But she died a hero, and technically saved the world
Theyre gonna revive her with her godawful mcu powers
They butchered her show and now her comics smh
Yeah
"Ms Marvel dying means women arent welcome in comic books"
This is a terrible take away considering more than half the cast of -Marvel- comic book characters in general has died at some point.
If rumors are true and they killing her to bring her back as a mutant so its allign with the MCU, then this is a BIG issue.
As Benny said many takes were taken from this executive decision and they are valid. This was terrible handled.
agree, they will likely rewrite the rest of the heroes to match the MCU as well. some will be killed permanently too.
I think the biggest problem with any big character dying in comics, is that it betrays the pitfalls of serialised storytelling, at some point we can kind of just know and accept that these characters are coming back, it's a given at this point, especially considering the state of the Xmen and where they're headed and the fact that Kamala is an Inhuman (someone fact check that by all means), now I love comics just like the guy next to me (there's not actually anyone here, I'm sat alone in my flat typing this), but more and more I find myself gravitating towards more independent titles and standalone projects. I recently have started reading Darwyn Cooke's "New Frontier" (the one about the DC universe in the 50s and the love letter to the stupidly sweet silver age) and that has weight and merit and authenticity because whilst it has all the serialised things we eat up, it stands by itself alone on its own two feet and what happens to the characters has 1. stakes and 2. weight. In fact, whilst I'd encourage everyone to read what they love, I doubly encourage them to take a look at the less serial side of comics (even if it's still all the marvel, dc, etc.) there's a lot to be gained there and nothing to be lost, rather than just getting bogged down in this or that controversy in whatever new writers have done to this or that character. Also let's not go after the people that create this, as one guy here has said, and I'm paraphrasing, "the real enemies are the corporate big wigs making all th money decisions"! PEACE!!
Perhaps one of the most infamous fridging moments in comic book history is Barbara Gordon being paralyzed in The Killing Joke. Although it is understandable that many fans hate that a character as iconic as Batgirl would be left in a wheelchair in a story in which she is not even the protagonist, there are two important things to keep in mind.
1. By the time The Killing Joke was made, Barbara was no longer a major character. After the first Crisis reboot, DC decided to make Batman a more lone figure, leaving Alfred, Jason, and sometimes Dick as the only members of the Bat-Family. Due to this, many former Gotham heroes (such as Batwoman, Betty Kane or Ace) were erased from the canon, and Batgirl was retired by giving her a farewell comic, so she was now just a civilian who made sporadic and unimportant appearances. Therefore, it is understandable that DC no longer gave the character any value other than serving as motivation for the other characters. Anyway, I bet if Alan Moore had written The Killing Joke in the late '70s or early '80s, there is no way they wouldn't have let him cripple Barbara.
2. Something that many people forget when criticizing The Killing Joke is the fact that Moore did not want it canon while writing it, serving more as an imaginatory story like "Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?". He didn't expect his graphic novel would fascinate the editors so much, they would introduce it in the main continiuity. In fact, one of the reasons Moore ended up regretting his involvement in The Killing Joke was how he accidentally made Barbara permanently crippled.
That said, I am not stating that what they did to Barbara in that comic was a good writing choice. I am just saying that there are more complex explanations to cases like this rather than just "pure misogony"
Exactly!
This has been on your mind for a while huh? 😂
It reminds of what Dan Slotto Blocktavius once said: "An enraged fan is an engaged fan."
This is precisely the problem with modern Spider-Man comics. Wells and Lowe do not care about quality, they just want engagement.
The real problem is she should have died sooner
I don’t think anyone cares about Ms. Marvel 😂
This wasn’t a problem. It’s only a problem if you’re obsessed with race. She was never that great of a character and everyone getting upset just sound like a bunch of racists lol
This is the stupidest thing I've ever read.
Have you actually tried listening to what other people have to say about it?
It's definitely a *variation* of fridging, of all the characters they could have sacrificed they grab someone who hadn't been in the story. It counts as fridging for the purpose of propelling sales--she was killed to push *us* to buy a specific line of comics.
(Not arguing just suggesting how it could count)
You're mad mad, and I am absolutely here for it, though.
The problem is shit like what they've pulled with Kamala makes me want to *not* read those comics, precisely because it's a crash grab.
I don’t think having Ms. Marvel play a more prominent role in the story would have made this any better because of the following reasons:
•She died in someone else’s book whom she barely has a connection with
•She, a Pakistani super hero, died using a power she’s apparently not used for years just for a fake out and for a random white woman whom she has no connection to
•That power was something she stopped using because it was thematically important for her character being tied to her own insecurities with her own race
•She died like a bitch to some rando villain a majority of people have never heard
•She died for a marketing stunt and possibly just for MCU synergy
True, but her appearing in the book more often could have given the potential for Kamala to actually form a connection with peter.
The villain sucked and the plan was stupid. Wasn't the villain mystically binded to MJ? How did he get it so wrong???
One thing that bugs me about Kamala's "heroic sacrifice" is that Rabin already branded Mary Jane with blood glyphs, which is the source of her current "jackpot" powers...
So there's no reason for Rabin should have been fooled by Kamala's inexplicable switcheroo since he basically used the magic version of 2PA
I haven't been able to afford to keep up with comics, lately. I adore Kama and her stories. It saddened me to hear that she recently died. When I finally heard HOW she died, yeah it upset me (outrage marketing is highly effective). But I also hope they bring her back better than ever.
I really want a comic where the venom symbiote deadpool uses for a time in Deadpool kills the marvel universe finds it's way to Peter and reveals that all thats happened to him is because of his horrid writers and it drives him insane. Then we get a comic book called spiderman kills his writers and its used as a reset point for spiderman.
She didn’t even die in her own story, and her live-action counterpart looks nothing like her
This is such a great vid, dude.
I was like 8 years old and I remember News Outlets talking about the Death of Superman. Now? It's a cheap way to retcon characters or eliminate comic lines that aren't selling.
The miss marvel death leaked online a couple days before they announced it. I dunno if more info came out since the issue released, but I remember at the time seeing people say the reason it was announced was because of that leak
It feels like all media these days is more about attention and rage baits rather than actually good writing... short term gains so you can make a big splash.
Btw, you are one of my all tome fav creators 🎉
Having the moment in Spider-Man makes more sense with your idea that she's going to be revived in the X-Men. Put the death and resurrection in the best selling books ahead of the new #1 for the movie. Maximize eyes on the moments.
I've Heard Rumors That She Will Come Back As A Mutant. So This looks Like A Reboot To Make Her Character Square With That In The MCU. However The Way Marvel Went About It Wasn't Exactly The Smartest.