The problem with trying to forge that stuff in a canister is that the abrasives and other crap are still in the mix. A better way to do this would be to run the grinding dust through a smelting furnace instead. Like smelting iron ore, the steel within the grinding dust would coalesce into a single mass while the abrasives would melt and separate out into the slag pool.
I was going to suggest doing something very similar. Just instead of using a modern furnace, I was going to suggest doing a charcoal chimney and old school bloom.
@@RickD5468 A crucible effectively is a canister that doesn't get smashed. The problem, whether in a canister or ceramic crucible, is that the crud remains trapped inside. BUT, using a crucible would certainly allow the steel and the crud to separate. He'd have to smash it off the surface of the steel puck once it cooled, which is perhaps a nuisance but certainly a workable one, not much worse than having to smash the glass layer off the puck too.
@@MartinHuber_Knives I was joking. And technically the answer is yes, Shurap made a video 2 years ago where he did it, instead of using a water basin, he had a dry catch basin, this created a stalagmite like object from the dust and he turned that into a knife by adding it, impurities and everything to a canister with powdered steel and made a blade from it.
That wouldd be very effective,I remember when working on the railroads,we used thermite to weld rails. The most important was to get the right mix for the specific alloy needed to weld specific railway switches to regular rail,the switches are harder due to withstanding more and higher friction. Point is with a specific blends of metal oxides and aluminum/magnesium one can get lots of different alloys,and easier than a steel factory.
You will have to make it as crucible steel, and you will need to add some reducing agent such as limestone, and melt in a sealed crucible. Add broken glass that creates an air tight surface on top that prevents re oxidation
@@MartinHuber_Knives yeah…this isn’t a knife forge project…you’d either be adding in some other burners to the space, or building a forced air furnace for charcoal…
You should defiantly look up on Powder Sintering, It's a manufacturing process in where you use pressure and heat to turn metal powder into solid objects.
I love how you actually tried to forgeweld the dust (as the myth actually says lol) instead of creating new steel by running a bloomery and smelting it! But tbh I definitely think the method you've tried might actually be more of a succes bc it shows it might be able to do!
yeah - i wanted to forgeweld not to smelt it. I think it would be possible too!! maybesome testing and tweaking and it works. gotta give it a shot again in future
The grinding dust would essentially be iron oxide as the carbon burnt out of it when grinding, hence the sparks while grinding. You could smelt it though and end up with modern day wrought iron. A knife made from San mai construction with the jacket being wrought iron smelted from grinding dust would be bad ass...
It is theoretically impossible in my mind because grinding dust is instantly oxidized as soon as it is created when it cools down, due to how small and hot it is. And as we all know, oxidation means good luck trying to get a good weld. That's why nothing stays together, it only came together as a block due to heat and pressure.
Great video (as usual). I’ve been saving all the scrap from grinding to try exactly this. I think I’ll crucible it all first. Thanks for all the inspiration bro!
Maybe try how Japanese make tamahagane (not sure if thats how its spelled 😅). Heaps of dust into a big vessel with lots of coal then let the impurities run out? U know what i mean?
I think you basically have a big pile of belt sander grit rather than actual metal, most of the metals are burning by the time they come off the belt, so any residual steel is already highly oxidised thanks for sharing
I would like to see you to use the exact same rusty stuff in this video, and try a canister that has just been heated and left to cool twice then try the power hammer to forge it Then another technique I have only a vague recollection of ever seeing, put the stuff in a clay canister and long fire it with a few scraps of sacrificial steel let it cool and break the canister and then forge out the "puck"
That was a really cool pipe b...cannister project! If you try it again, considder adding maybe 10%-15 powdered charcoal to the cannister. Your grinding dust has a lot of iron oxide (rust) mixed in, holding the canister at forge welding temperatures in a carbon rich environment should re-carburize the iron oxide, turning it back into steel, maybe. It's how historical shear/blister steel was made and I've done it myself to recarburize forge scale on some damascus components that were too weird in shape to grind clean and it worked. Just a thought. Anywho, great video as always! Have a great Blade show!
If you put the sludge in acetone, and while it's in the acetone, put lots of magnets at the bottom and sides of the tub, if the tub is made of metal it's even better, then you stir the sludge/acetone mix, and all of the metal will adhere to the sides, then you pour out the non-metal
Curious that so many people suggested using a magnet to pull out the steel and leave the impurities.. As far as i understood part of the experiment was to leave them in there.. Also to all those people, have you ever had a magnet in a metal working shop? Do you know that dirt sticks to the steel and then on the magnet? Don't think separating with one would work!
I do not mean to challenge you in any way. I am not a Smith. Let-alone a Bladesmith! But would a crucible, be a better option? Phenomenal video. First time I’ve ever seen your channel. I’ll be looking it up again!
Between the oxidation on the steel dust and the abrasive particles you will never get the grind dust to forge. If you put the dust crucible and separate the steel from the impurities you might have a chance.
It really looks like how Japanese swordsmiths have to judge and define the type and what grade of tamahagane they have to work with. If this is poor grade and pure steeldust is good they would stack up and fold it in paper with clay and charcoal around it, forge it, break it and doing it again multiple times before they start forging the sword. Would be great to see what you can do with the clean and new grinding steel 👍Danke für euer Seit und natürlich die video! Bis zum nächsten 👍
It looks a little like those moviees showing how to make tamagane (I think it's spelled this way - japanese steel material for katana). its a long process of folding, heating and so forth. Your other option is to try and melt it into an actual steel bar but I doubt you can reach the required temperatures in the forge.
I think this was a success! As you mentioned it seemed to work to some extent and another test would be fun to see! I also liked seeing my comment from the last video twice on the board of comments in this video xD
....I thought about it before. Everyone with a belt grinder did i'm sure 😅😅 you are the only one crazy enough to try 😂 10 points for efforts, and in true academic style: a negative result is also a result 😅😋
Maybe do a slurry separation with magnet to get the magnetic iron away from all the other particles like grit and abrasives from grinding wheels and belts? I would think you need a quite high ratio of metal to forge it. The rust would need a carbon source to convert the oxide back to metal and get rid of the oxygen as co2 by applying heat.
Adding coal dust might do the trick, as for burning the oxygen a lot of smiths soak their steel in kerosene for that reason. Don't know if it works in a canister tho
separate metal from grit with a magnet and remove oxides with acid (citric acid or vinegar or even evaporust), then you can forge weld it together with some flux
Try putting a lot of grinding dust packed into a tall crucible add 0.08% Vanadium by weight and also some broken-up charcoal and broken glass as the top layer. Then seal it up with clay and only leave a tiny hole on top (so it doesn't explode). Heat to 2300 - 2400 F for about 2 hours, then lower the temp to 1400 F and hold for 45 minutes. Raise heat back up to 1600 F for 30 minutes, then back down to 1400 F for 35 minutes and repeat this cycle one more time holding at 1550 F for 30 minutes then remove the crucible from your furnace and allow to completely cool before breaking open the crucible. If all works correctly, you've made true Wootz steel.
Put a bunch of broken tools in a canister and forgeweld it! I mean chisels, drills, sawblades, angelgrinders, hammers, carbide-inserts for millingmachines, a surfacegrinder, your broken powerhammerdies...
@@MartinHuber_Knives nonono, not angle. ANGEL!! the big Flappy human with glowy headband and stuff! or the older version with the eyes and the wings, which melts your eyes and brain
Nice try, I haven’t seen anyone make it work. Like Barry says smelting may be the ticket. I’ve thought of using a magnet to separate just the steel and then soak in muriatic acid to clean it but I’m not that into trying it. I leave that to the professionals like you!
Maybe not metal dust but various cnc machine metal shavings? That or tin foil, also ball bearings like the whole bearing not just the balls would be interesting. Damascus made from boot spurs and or screw threads ( thread only no head ). Turn a tool box i to a knife..... like a whole tool box handle and all. Could use the carry handle as some janky hand gaurd.
you need to try this again but this time convert the rust back into metal. you could try 3 things: 1) add aluminum dust to make a thermite 2) add charcoal dust 3) hydrogen gas reduction
I’d maybe suggest burning it off in a kiln to remove the worst of the abrasive etc and then put the burned stuff into the canister with flux to give it a proper chance. Even just using a much thinner walled canister and really smashing the thing in the power hammer before opening the canister and removing what you can.
The problem with this is that there's a lot of silicates and carbides in there from the sanding belt. Theoretically you could do this but you would need to separate the materials via a panning like method.
Hi guys! I think you may try to forge something from your metal saw dust, where you were cutting the pipe for the container, there are much more metal itself) And less sh*t like sand dust)
Maybe take the grind dust into epoxy or concrete and after solidify see if you can put an edge to it. I have used it as filling material in wood with super glue.
It seems like to me that this should be do able. I mean after all, when you are doing canister Damascus then most of the time I see the smith's putting in powdered steel. I guess the one flaw that you would be looking at though would be the steel itself. What kind of steel is in that grinding dust that you are putting into the canister? I think it's plenty possible just the same
With this type of dirty grinding dust I'm not confident it can forge weld properly, it could definitely be smelted though. I would try again with some cleaner dust and maybe layer in some borax with the dust in the canister, there might be separations where the borax layers are but it could provide cleaner slices that can then be layered in a new canister and forge welded.
Possibly crush the dust clumps in to fine powder the soak in water to see if you could separate the dirt and fibers out and then use a magnet to separate it even further in to just metal trying to remove the metal particles from the sanding belt debris.
You could try forging it the way traditional ore was processed where ya smack your crumbly bits and let it flake with the rust and crud and let the steel that’s kinda good stick and work that till ya got enough pieces to do a canister 🤷🏻♂️ it’s not exactly fancy and quick but would be pretty damn cool
Honestly the product that came out of canister kinda looked like the metal spikes that form on a chopsaw and I wonder what would happen if you threw what came out of the can into another can and reforged it because it seems like that first can got rid of a lot of the impurities.
you should try using a canoe then doing a layer of dust then borax and then dust and do that inbetween each heat. you can also try some 1080 dust as well.
Try crushing it all up & pick it up with a magnet, leaves the other crud behind. Then swish it around in some acid just long enough to get rid of the rust.
Try fresh grinding dust... Using a magnet to pick up the steel and leave the belt dust behind. May take a while to collect but at least the magnet will make sure you got only steel.
Hey man, i know nothing about forging but i've seen the process of japanese katana forging and often they start with dirty chunks of smelted steel, and they slowly forge weld it being delicate to avoid it crumbling, and they keep hammering on it,and folding it in half to push the impurities out with every fold, idk if this would be possible with grind dust but i think if they can separaste rocks from their steel, then grinddust should be possible to make into a knife
That would have been a good project to try and make some WOOTZ STEEL out of it, I had a friend use a bunch of steel slag & grindings and built a clay furnace, he used a big graphite crucible to put the material in, after it was done, it was very hard steel, he had to use the power hammer cause to get it to move, he made a military style tomahawk and it had an awesome speckled damascus pattern.. He also researched how to make it for months before he did it.. There is also a TH-cam channel where all he does is make the WOOTZ..
@@MartinHuber_Knives I know.. It is a completely different technique, but in the end you have a solid piece that you can forge into whatever you want.. You have some really good videos.. Thank you for responding..
Nice attempt of "upcycling" 😅 due to lack of knowledge about forging i guess i would have tried to melt the dust/scrap first to solidify it, keep up the nice work 👍
@ you’d be surprised - look up microwave kilns and how people use them. I was shocked too but you can literally smelt, forge, and pour metals this way!
The only microwave kilns i can find are for glass and pottery. they reach 900°C, whats not suited for steel since forging temps of most steels is way above that more up to 1100°C Maybe you confuse them with an induction forge? :)
Interesting video. :) good effort there for sure, wondered the same. There are a few things that come to mind. The grinding dust is a mix of iron with mostly silicon or aluminum (depends on the grit you are using) plus organics (the belts) and random dirt which basically would seem to fall under the term: slag. Slag is used in the making of wrought iron, that may be a thing to try. Then the cleavage when broken, looked very ceramic, reminds me of Ferrite, a metal ceramic. Wonder if you kilned the dust would you get that ceramic body. And then, if you said nawwww just mix it in water with ball clay and wood ash and lets glaze pottery instead.... I wonder if it would glaze and how that would look :) Next up, try removing the oxides and soak washing in EvapoRust :D and try again :D
Try borax in the canister. Oxygen is the enemy. Even if your canisters splits, keep going, but add more borax. Don't cut the canister off right away. Also, how long did you let the canister soak in the heat?
@@MartinHuber_Knives Ya, the direction that the canisters collapse is an issue. I saw that right away. You gave me an idea. I won't be able to try it for some time, but if it works, I'll let you know. Heck, I'll make a video and let everyone know. Haha
I think there's two ways this can be done. Grind up the dust into a really fine powder, and separate the metal with a magnet. OR. Smelt the whole pile and let the densities separate out your forge material tamahagane style. But of course you then would need to make a katana and not just a knife, or risk dishonor of all your ancestors.
Loved the video (as usual). Kick off the weekend right with your great video. Thanks again and can’t wait till next week. Btw…when will shirts be available again on your site…asking for a friend :)
i am planning to forge my own tungsten/titanium forging hammer, using powdered steel of both and sintering and such along with any other method i can think of to refine it, along with a bunch of test ingots alloyed with other metals
Half that dust is grinding wheel material and/or aluminum oxide, or whatever type of sandpaper you are using. You need to separate the steel from that, if it's a even possible
I think it would work better if it were smelted first. That would allow the removal of impurities that are just being incorporated with the forging process. Fun experiment, though.
I wonder if you would need to reduce the oxides first at smelting temperatures and in the presence of carbon. There must be a lot of rust in there. (And abrasives like others mentioned.)
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Watch the newest Video!
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Super awesome project
The problem with trying to forge that stuff in a canister is that the abrasives and other crap are still in the mix. A better way to do this would be to run the grinding dust through a smelting furnace instead. Like smelting iron ore, the steel within the grinding dust would coalesce into a single mass while the abrasives would melt and separate out into the slag pool.
I was going to suggest doing something very similar. Just instead of using a modern furnace, I was going to suggest doing a charcoal chimney and old school bloom.
Crucible steel. I have seen to many attempts to use scraps fail because they used a canister.
@@RickD5468 A crucible effectively is a canister that doesn't get smashed. The problem, whether in a canister or ceramic crucible, is that the crud remains trapped inside. BUT, using a crucible would certainly allow the steel and the crud to separate. He'd have to smash it off the surface of the steel puck once it cooled, which is perhaps a nuisance but certainly a workable one, not much worse than having to smash the glass layer off the puck too.
Exactly, this way would work for sure! 😄
Можно повесить магнит на ведро. Абразив и шлак будут оседать на дно, а железо притягиваться к магниту 🤔
Maybe it would also help to smash your dust into a fine powder and use a magnet to separate the steel from the other stuff thats in the dust.
it sure would!
but i wanted to try it as it comes 😄😄
@MartinHuber_Knives With impurities that you know will be there? Is this your first-time forge welding?
@@jackn2236 If you havent watched the video, the question was - can i forgeweld the shit in the bucket from the grinding :D
@@MartinHuber_Knives I was joking. And technically the answer is yes, Shurap made a video 2 years ago where he did it, instead of using a water basin, he had a dry catch basin, this created a stalagmite like object from the dust and he turned that into a knife by adding it, impurities and everything to a canister with powdered steel and made a blade from it.
HEY! I came here to say that! ya beat me to it, lol
I like the cheeky nod to Shurap with the salt, pepper & pepper flakes.
hehehe finally somebody!!!!!!
@@MartinHuber_Knivesoke))) but Shurap finally do it)))
@@AnatharFrost013 right!?!? I just saw that too..shruap needs to talk more..lol
That grinding dust looks like mostly rust. How about a thermite reaction with aluminum powder to reduce the rust to iron? Make your own volcano 😊
LOL
@@MartinHuber_Knives codys’lab has a video where he used a giant amount of thermite to make a cast iron skillet
That wouldd be very effective,I remember when working on the railroads,we used thermite to weld rails.
The most important was to get the right mix for the specific alloy needed to weld specific railway switches to regular rail,the switches are harder due to withstanding more and higher friction.
Point is with a specific blends of metal oxides and aluminum/magnesium one can get lots of different alloys,and easier than a steel factory.
You will have to make it as crucible steel, and you will need to add some reducing agent such as limestone, and melt in a sealed crucible. Add broken glass that creates an air tight surface on top that prevents re oxidation
yeah that would work!
@@MartinHuber_Knives ...you gonna do it?
@@justinchiang6969 I dont think my forge can get this hot..
@@MartinHuber_Knives yeah…this isn’t a knife forge project…you’d either be adding in some other burners to the space, or building a forced air furnace for charcoal…
Near molten metal flies everywhere.
"Yeah, lets keep going"
Respect.
Ain't nothing to it but to do it 😄
Save up your cutoffs and put them in a canister, along with powdered metal, so you can make random pattern Damascus.
lol yeah!
I was thinking of a question of will is Damascus?
ive never seen someone give it a real chance i would love to see a video of you cleaning it and then trying again
thank ya! i tried my best.
I'll give you an A for effort, but smelting would definitely the way to go if possible.
100% would be!
I'd like to see the crazy pattern you would get combining all the Damascus offcuts
already thought about that - nice to see this comment 🔥🥰🙌🏻🙌🏻
You should defiantly look up on Powder Sintering, It's a manufacturing process in where you use pressure and heat to turn metal powder into solid objects.
totally yea
I love how you actually tried to forgeweld the dust (as the myth actually says lol) instead of creating new steel by running a bloomery and smelting it! But tbh I definitely think the method you've tried might actually be more of a succes bc it shows it might be able to do!
yeah - i wanted to forgeweld not to smelt it.
I think it would be possible too!! maybesome testing and tweaking and it works.
gotta give it a shot again in future
I'd love to see another take on this!
@@tecumify heck yeah brother
The grinding dust would essentially be iron oxide as the carbon burnt out of it when grinding, hence the sparks while grinding. You could smelt it though and end up with modern day wrought iron. A knife made from San mai construction with the jacket being wrought iron smelted from grinding dust would be bad ass...
if it would have worked out i'd do HRC testing and everything on it
It is theoretically impossible in my mind because grinding dust is instantly oxidized as soon as it is created when it cools down, due to how small and hot it is.
And as we all know, oxidation means good luck trying to get a good weld. That's why nothing stays together, it only came together as a block due to heat and pressure.
Yessir!!!
Great video (as usual). I’ve been saving all the scrap from grinding to try exactly this. I think I’ll crucible it all first. Thanks for all the inspiration bro!
yeah dont do a cannister 😂
Gotta say, every maker has thought about trying it. Kudos to you for trying. How about mill/drill shavings in a canister with some powder filler?
psssst...dont spoil a future video ;)
Maybe try how Japanese make tamahagane (not sure if thats how its spelled 😅). Heaps of dust into a big vessel with lots of coal then let the impurities run out? U know what i mean?
possible yeah!
Mark my words, your channel is gonna take off for sure!
Awesome stuff!
haha thanks bro 😄
I think you basically have a big pile of belt sander grit rather than actual metal, most of the metals are burning by the time they come off the belt, so any residual steel is already highly oxidised
thanks for sharing
thats why i did it - to solve the mystery arround the myth
I would like to see you to use the exact same rusty stuff in this video, and try a canister that has just been heated and left to cool twice then try the power hammer to forge it
Then another technique I have only a vague recollection of ever seeing, put the stuff in a clay canister and long fire it with a few scraps of sacrificial steel let it cool and break the canister and then forge out the "puck"
well thats some ideas!!!! :D
That was a really cool pipe b...cannister project! If you try it again, considder adding maybe 10%-15 powdered charcoal to the cannister. Your grinding dust has a lot of iron oxide (rust) mixed in, holding the canister at forge welding temperatures in a carbon rich environment should re-carburize the iron oxide, turning it back into steel, maybe. It's how historical shear/blister steel was made and I've done it myself to recarburize forge scale on some damascus components that were too weird in shape to grind clean and it worked. Just a thought.
Anywho, great video as always! Have a great Blade show!
thats actually a intresting idea!
Thanks man!
If you put the sludge in acetone, and while it's in the acetone, put lots of magnets at the bottom and sides of the tub, if the tub is made of metal it's even better, then you stir the sludge/acetone mix, and all of the metal will adhere to the sides, then you pour out the non-metal
🤔
Curious that so many people suggested using a magnet to pull out the steel and leave the impurities.. As far as i understood part of the experiment was to leave them in there.. Also to all those people, have you ever had a magnet in a metal working shop? Do you know that dirt sticks to the steel and then on the magnet? Don't think separating with one would work!
Thank you.
yes.
I agree with the others, smelting with a crucible would work better. Also you can use the grinding dust and epoxy mixed to make knife handles
way better yeah!
lol i tried that with some dust before, sadly ripps out
I do not mean to challenge you in any way. I am not a Smith. Let-alone a Bladesmith! But would a crucible, be a better option?
Phenomenal video. First time I’ve ever seen your channel. I’ll be looking it up again!
It is a WAY better idea if your goal is results
But thats smelting, not forging. So not what i tried to do here ;)
Did you try smelting the grinding dust? Making a lump of molten grinding dust wood be a good start.
yeah but thats smelting, not forging. So not what i tried to do here, compleatly different work
Between the oxidation on the steel dust and the abrasive particles you will never get the grind dust to forge. If you put the dust crucible and separate the steel from the impurities you might have a chance.
Yeah i know - but thats not what i wated tro try in this video 😄😄😄
It really looks like how Japanese swordsmiths have to judge and define the type and what grade of tamahagane they have to work with. If this is poor grade and pure steeldust is good they would stack up and fold it in paper with clay and charcoal around it, forge it, break it and doing it again multiple times before they start forging the sword. Would be great to see what you can do with the clean and new grinding steel 👍Danke für euer Seit und natürlich die video! Bis zum nächsten 👍
it would be a intresting thing to do too yeah!
It looks a little like those moviees showing how to make tamagane (I think it's spelled this way - japanese steel material for katana). its a long process of folding, heating and so forth. Your other option is to try and melt it into an actual steel bar but I doubt you can reach the required temperatures in the forge.
yeah that would work
I saw the "steel bae " impresion😂😂😂
🙌🏻😂😂🙌🏻
I think this was a success! As you mentioned it seemed to work to some extent and another test would be fun to see! I also liked seeing my comment from the last video twice on the board of comments in this video xD
oops. 😂
Kinda refreshing seeing one of these types of vids where it just didn't quite work out. Cool
I mean, shit happens right? 🤷🏼♂️
....I thought about it before. Everyone with a belt grinder did i'm sure 😅😅 you are the only one crazy enough to try 😂 10 points for efforts, and in true academic style: a negative result is also a result 😅😋
hahah somebody had to do it 😂
Maybe do a slurry separation with magnet to get the magnetic iron away from all the other particles like grit and abrasives from grinding wheels and belts?
I would think you need a quite high ratio of metal to forge it. The rust would need a carbon source to convert the oxide back to metal and get rid of the oxygen as co2 by applying heat.
Adding coal dust might do the trick, as for burning the oxygen a lot of smiths soak their steel in kerosene for that reason. Don't know if it works in a canister tho
🙌🏻
separate metal from grit with a magnet and remove oxides with acid (citric acid or vinegar or even evaporust), then you can forge weld it together with some flux
Going over dirty dust with a magnet wouldnt clean it that good since the fine particles of the belts n stuff would just go with them
Good Idee lets make Wootz steel.☄️
hahaa 🙌🏻😄
Try putting a lot of grinding dust packed into a tall crucible add 0.08% Vanadium by weight and also some broken-up charcoal and broken glass as the top layer. Then seal it up with clay and only leave a tiny hole on top (so it doesn't explode). Heat to 2300 - 2400 F for about 2 hours, then lower the temp to 1400 F and hold for 45 minutes. Raise heat back up to 1600 F for 30 minutes, then back down to 1400 F for 35 minutes and repeat this cycle one more time holding at 1550 F for 30 minutes then remove the crucible from your furnace and allow to completely cool before breaking open the crucible. If all works correctly, you've made true Wootz steel.
Thats smelting, not forging. 😄 that wasnt the goal of this video
Put a bunch of broken tools in a canister and forgeweld it!
I mean chisels, drills, sawblades, angelgrinders, hammers, carbide-inserts for millingmachines, a surfacegrinder, your broken powerhammerdies...
i should do a anglegrinder damascus yeah!!!
@@MartinHuber_Knives nonono, not angle. ANGEL!! the big Flappy human with glowy headband and stuff! or the older version with the eyes and the wings, which melts your eyes and brain
Nice try, I haven’t seen anyone make it work. Like Barry says smelting may be the ticket. I’ve thought of using a magnet to separate just the steel and then soak in muriatic acid to clean it but I’m not that into trying it. I leave that to the professionals like you!
smelting always works 😄
never heard of forge sintering before that's pretty neat
haha 😄
Maybe not metal dust but various cnc machine metal shavings? That or tin foil, also ball bearings like the whole bearing not just the balls would be interesting. Damascus made from boot spurs and or screw threads ( thread only no head ). Turn a tool box i to a knife..... like a whole tool box handle and all. Could use the carry handle as some janky hand gaurd.
Duuude bringing in the ideas!!!!! 😄
Appreciate it!!! 🙌🏻😄
you need to try this again but this time convert the rust back into metal.
you could try 3 things: 1) add aluminum dust to make a thermite 2) add charcoal dust 3) hydrogen gas reduction
i love how many people.want me to do termite and blow my workshop up 😂
I’d maybe suggest burning it off in a kiln to remove the worst of the abrasive etc and then put the burned stuff into the canister with flux to give it a proper chance. Even just using a much thinner walled canister and really smashing the thing in the power hammer before opening the canister and removing what you can.
possible!!
If you collected dry grinding dust, could you use magnet to separate the steel from the abrasives?
Magnet counter number 120! It could work yeah!
The problem with this is that there's a lot of silicates and carbides in there from the sanding belt. Theoretically you could do this but you would need to separate the materials via a panning like method.
But tjats exactly what i tried to do, forgeweld the shit from the bucket 😄
Steel shaving and the grinding powder
Already thought about the stuff i could mill for a experiment like that 😄
Maybe make a piece of Woolz steel with it? Melt in a crucible and then forge it.
Thats smelting, not forging. So not what i tried to do here ;)
I wonder if smelting bucket dust into a fresh bloom, in a kiln maybe, might help. A canister billet certainly didn't.
sure smelting works!
But that wasnt the goal of the video 😄
May make more sense to melt it in a canister wootz style instead of forging it, may have better results
100% would yes
but i tried to proof a point ;)
it was all the oxides that was giving you trouble, next time maybe soak the dust in vinegar before putting it in the canister?
true that!
Hi guys! I think you may try to forge something from your metal saw dust, where you were cutting the pipe for the container, there are much more metal itself) And less sh*t like sand dust)
yeah that sure would be possible :)
Alec Steele did something similar. It took a few tries, but he figured it out
sure it could work somehow
Maybe take the grind dust into epoxy or concrete and after solidify see if you can put an edge to it. I have used it as filling material in wood with super glue.
lol 😄
It seems like to me that this should be do able. I mean after all, when you are doing canister Damascus then most of the time I see the smith's putting in powdered steel. I guess the one flaw that you would be looking at though would be the steel itself. What kind of steel is in that grinding dust that you are putting into the canister? I think it's plenty possible just the same
as i said, i believe its possible. just maybe other way arround
With this type of dirty grinding dust I'm not confident it can forge weld properly, it could definitely be smelted though. I would try again with some cleaner dust and maybe layer in some borax with the dust in the canister, there might be separations where the borax layers are but it could provide cleaner slices that can then be layered in a new canister and forge welded.
Yeah cleaning it sure would have made it better
But i wanted to try the shitbucket 😄😄😄
Possibly crush the dust clumps in to fine powder the soak in water to see if you could separate the dirt and fibers out and then use a magnet to separate it even further in to just metal trying to remove the metal particles from the sanding belt debris.
i love how every second comment talks about magnets :D
Think you need to use the wootz processs to do this
yep
mybe you can use these pieces and form Tamahagane out of it ;) it will take time but i think it will work
possible
You could try forging it the way traditional ore was processed where ya smack your crumbly bits and let it flake with the rust and crud and let the steel that’s kinda good stick and work that till ya got enough pieces to do a canister 🤷🏻♂️ it’s not exactly fancy and quick but would be pretty damn cool
Possible yeah 😅
Honestly the product that came out of canister kinda looked like the metal spikes that form on a chopsaw and I wonder what would happen if you threw what came out of the can into another can and reforged it because it seems like that first can got rid of a lot of the impurities.
so you want me to put the stuff foe the can, in a can and then in another can?
I think i can do that.
😂
you should try using a canoe then doing a layer of dust then borax and then dust and do that inbetween each heat. you can also try some 1080 dust as well.
but with 1080 dust it would be cheating! 😄
What about doing it like the beginning process for making a katana where they melt it down to get out the impurities?
thats smelting, i wanted to forgeweld :)
Try adding charcoal into the mix. I have long wanted to do this but am not ready yet.
i hward that a few times now
Try crushing it all up & pick it up with a magnet, leaves the other crud behind. Then swish it around in some acid just long enough to get rid of the rust.
that stuff so lught it will be goung uo with the steel
Sorry, didn't see someone had already suggested that. 😅
@@yellowdogbladeworks haha 😄
I think for a successful attempt you’d need to try smelting it in a bloomery furnace so you can separate it into more beads of metal and molten slag
yeah but thats smelting, not forging. So not what i tried to do here ;)
Try fresh grinding dust... Using a magnet to pick up the steel and leave the belt dust behind. May take a while to collect but at least the magnet will make sure you got only steel.
maybe yes!
Hey man, i know nothing about forging but i've seen the process of japanese katana forging and often they start with dirty chunks of smelted steel, and they slowly forge weld it being delicate to avoid it crumbling, and they keep hammering on it,and folding it in half to push the impurities out with every fold, idk if this would be possible with grind dust but i think if they can separaste rocks from their steel, then grinddust should be possible to make into a knife
Yeah there would be smelting needed for this process
maybe try making a bloom to burn off impurities in the same manner as the japanese do/did.
yeah that would be the way to go
Awesome... new sub earned with ease.. thank you for sharing ya journey!
thanks buddy 🙌🏻
I would like someone to try using broken or just worn out carbide cutting bits from lathes and machining heads and things like that
daaaaamn 😅 i dont know if this would work 😅
That would have been a good project to try and make some WOOTZ STEEL out of it, I had a friend use a bunch of steel slag & grindings and built a clay furnace, he used a big graphite crucible to put the material in, after it was done, it was very hard steel, he had to use the power hammer cause to get it to move, he made a military style tomahawk and it had an awesome speckled damascus pattern.. He also researched how to make it for months before he did it.. There is also a TH-cam channel where all he does is make the WOOTZ..
thats pretty fancy
But i tried to forge it, not melt it ;)
@@MartinHuber_Knives I know.. It is a completely different technique, but in the end you have a solid piece that you can forge into whatever you want.. You have some really good videos.. Thank you for responding..
I think you've got to cast it first. Get whats metal to seperate from the impurities and then work with a solid lump.
yeah but than its smelting and not forging, so not what i tried to do
Maybe make an ingot ala the Wootz steel method next?
Yeah maybe!!
Nice attempt of "upcycling" 😅 due to lack of knowledge about forging i guess i would have tried to melt the dust/scrap first to solidify it, keep up the nice work 👍
yeah this would be the way, but i wanted to try the redneck way
@@MartinHuber_Knives keep up this wierd approach 👍
Powder the dust, use a large magnet to remove metal from dust, then fill canister with METAL .
Not what i wanted to show 😄 i wamted to show the shitbucket cannister.
You could also welding rod the dust all together into one huge mass or put it all in a microwave kiln and microwave it.
@@SynaestheticSynthesis Putting steel in a microwce sure is a good thing for a youtube video 😄😂
@ you’d be surprised - look up microwave kilns and how people use them. I was shocked too but you can literally smelt, forge, and pour metals this way!
The only microwave kilns i can find are for glass and pottery. they reach 900°C, whats not suited for steel since forging temps of most steels is way above that more up to 1100°C
Maybe you confuse them with an induction forge? :)
@@MartinHuber_Knives th-cam.com/users/shortsqxc-nwnDdgg?feature=share
Huh, that's interesting! Already knew that you can put metals in microwaves safely, but that's interesting af!
The best way to learn is experimenting
YESS!!!
But people somehow dont wanna try shit anymore.
Interesting video. :) good effort there for sure, wondered the same. There are a few things that come to mind. The grinding dust is a mix of iron with mostly silicon or aluminum (depends on the grit you are using) plus organics (the belts) and random dirt which basically would seem to fall under the term: slag. Slag is used in the making of wrought iron, that may be a thing to try. Then the cleavage when broken, looked very ceramic, reminds me of Ferrite, a metal ceramic. Wonder if you kilned the dust would you get that ceramic body. And then, if you said nawwww just mix it in water with ball clay and wood ash and lets glaze pottery instead.... I wonder if it would glaze and how that would look :) Next up, try removing the oxides and soak washing in EvapoRust :D and try again :D
i really wonder how that glaze would look like....huh..i wanna do that now.
take the grinding dust and dry it completely and make it a powder then use a magnet and pull the steel out of the rest of the junk from grinding.
still wouldnt work that great i guess 😄
Try borax in the canister. Oxygen is the enemy. Even if your canisters splits, keep going, but add more borax. Don't cut the canister off right away. Also, how long did you let the canister soak in the heat?
i did it how i always do my cannisters and they look great
and if i forged more on that one it wouldnt work anymore it already crushed to the insude
@@MartinHuber_Knives Ya, the direction that the canisters collapse is an issue. I saw that right away. You gave me an idea. I won't be able to try it for some time, but if it works, I'll let you know. Heck, I'll make a video and let everyone know. Haha
Maybe it could clean up in an oversised crucible with an excess of glass flux?
Yeah but that would be smelting :D
I think there's two ways this can be done.
Grind up the dust into a really fine powder, and separate the metal with a magnet. OR. Smelt the whole pile and let the densities separate out your forge material tamahagane style. But of course you then would need to make a katana and not just a knife, or risk dishonor of all your ancestors.
yeah could be
and no i wouldnt dishonor anybody...since..i'm.not japanese... 😂😄
I like all the extra safety gear, you gotta protect that sweet sweet face ;)
aw you, staaaap 🥰🙌🏻
Loved the video (as usual). Kick off the weekend right with your great video. Thanks again and can’t wait till next week. Btw…when will shirts be available again on your site…asking for a friend :)
could take some time...dont know if any other even want some.
Bro made slag 🗿
yessssssss
I've always wondered if Rust can be turned into a knife also try using a crucible
100% ! thats how they recicle steel
@@MartinHuber_Knives it would also help it to consolidate into a more solid piece of metal
It was like the videos of Japanese swordsmiths making metal from raw material
hahah 😄
I wonder if running a magnet to the dust would be enough of a preliminary process?
Not really, it would take most of the other stuff with it aswell
Run a magnet over the dust. Then use what the magnet collects.
still wouldnt be clean enough
I am no knife maker. Just saying it would be a better starting point. lol. He just spent a lot of time making a mess.
your problem is that its made from iron AND sanding abrasives. Usually abrasives are made of aluminum and ceramics.
yeah - thats why i made the video to show off it DOESNT WORK
How about a cast-iron bronze Celtic sword?
Try the grinding slag in a wootz style billet
yeah but thats not forgimg thats smelting
i think your right you can but the method has to be crucible with glass and charcoal. cook it overnight
yeah smelting would work
I mean, you're basically putting a lot of effort into making slag. Clean grinding dust would just be metal powder, which you can in fact forge weld.
yeah but i dont care about the clean one, i want the bad shit 😂
i am planning to forge my own tungsten/titanium forging hammer, using powdered steel of both and sintering and such along with any other method i can think of to refine it, along with a bunch of test ingots alloyed with other metals
hmm 🤔
10:01 That’s a hot mess.
yeeeep
Half that dust is grinding wheel material and/or aluminum oxide, or whatever type of sandpaper you are using. You need to separate the steel from that, if it's a even possible
i mean, i wanted to try it straight from the bucket. that was the goal
I think it would work better if it were smelted first. That would allow the removal of impurities that are just being incorporated with the forging process.
Fun experiment, though.
yeah it would, but then it wouldnt be forging :D
@MartinHuber_Knives call it a "pre-forge", lol
@@Nitehawke lol :D
Can you make a knife out of butter knifes?
sounds fun.
I wonder if you would need to reduce the oxides first at smelting temperatures and in the presence of carbon. There must be a lot of rust in there. (And abrasives like others mentioned.)
Yeah smelting all would sure work
but smelting not forging :)