Use two thick plates. One in 1095 and one in 15N20. Laser the 15n20 as you did, but etch the 1095 with a reverse image and press the designs together. Then you should be able to grind one away until you get to the welded pattern with little or no distortion. Its very easy with the fiber.
@@TimothyDyck I havent but we have several 50w fiber and I really cant see how it would fail. It would be easier as we have a surface grinder (converted to sander). You would only have to weld the one edge and it would have zero oxygen. As Randall said, any pattern should hold up 100% with sharp edges, especially if you weld with a press.
Your stainless foil stuck to the powder because it is clean. Makers who use stainless foil this way heat it to let it get a layer of oxidation on it first. The oxide will keep it from welding to the rest of the elements in the canister.
The "muddiness" of the 15N20 looks like it's because there is still a thin layer of 1090 powder on top because you can see a bright "halo" around the edge of each of the features which I suspect is the real 15n20 underneath.. Grind it a bit more and try the etch again..
The pattern welded "dirty" steel looks so much better than the etched and polished blank. The dirtiness comes from new alloys that you created in the welding process. The non ferrous materials kinda flow around while hot, and that's what makes it beautiful.
I’ve had an idea like this for a while. Unfortunately I’m just a layman who watches videos on TH-cam. But I was thinking something like family names or other text actually patterned into the blade instead of surface etched
Do not give up on this idea. Think of the applications as far as designing a layout of metals to increase a knife's durability. What I envision is a knife that starts with pure mild steel going into a large honeycomb pattern moving across to a smaller honeycomb pattern. The opposite side is reverse. A hard steel ( the blade edge side) going into a large honeycomb pattern and then across towards the mild steel side with smaller honeycomb. A Damascus billet designed to have a hard edge and absorb shocks and be flexible.
Oh yeah. He definitely should iterate on this stuff. Firstly he will learn more about the process itself and it looks like there is still much to learn, Secondly all that institutional knowledge will let him try more and more daring designs and processes over time. This is very promising.
I can't remember the channel but spraying the inside of the box with white paint, made it super easy to remove form the Damascus after heat. My guess is that it's the titanium oxide in the white paint.
I love these types of experiments! They always lead to new ways of thinking and inovations. Before you said that you didn’t want to do this as damascus, I thought it would be interesting to have the laser etching reversed where the skeleton around the triangles is removed, leaving the triangles as the high points. This should make it easier for the powder to get into all the recesses as well as have it be a fully connected lattice around the triangles. Nice work! Keep the creations coming.
Here's a thought: Can your laser sinter the powder? If so, lock down the workpiece on the laser bed and let it do it's thing, then just add powder without picking up the workpiece and run a sintering pass. You might have to look up the laser's working temps to see if it's capable of sintering this powder, but it might yield result.
Could you fill the holes with the powder, then cover the steel with paper masking tape? This would prevent the powder from falling out & the paper would get vaporised when you heat it. That way you could make a casing that fits it like a sheath to a knife. If the powder is fine enough, you could use vibration (an ultrasonic cleaner without water, or a power tool touching the metal) to get it to fill even very tiniest of holes - like a thin groove the thickness of a ball point pen. That way you could create patterns like the branching veins in a leaf (0.20mm grooves), or natural fractals (think cracks in drying mud, or an image of lightning), even the scales of a lizard. If this works, this would make utterly unique damascus patterns that would be really popular. You could even "sign" your work with a laser-etched fingerprint hidden on the tang.
This illustrates one of the things I love about the smithing community; we share our ideas! Since 3D printed/cellulose damascus patterns are now done by lots of smiths, this looks like an interesting variant; one could laser in a name, or corporate logo, or whatever and fill the impressions with 1090. Might work even better with the canoe canister technique.
Cool experiment! Tip on canister damascus, the guy from Fire Creek Forge here on yt says regular white spray paint works better than the foil for keeping the canister from sticking to the billet. I believe he mentioned that it was the titanium dioxide in the paint creates an unweldable barrier between the steel and the canister. Give it a try next time!
One piece I have learned from others, and my own experience with Damascus is that the majority of the weld happen in the fire. It’s important to get the welds set quickly if you have open steel that is susceptible to oxidation, but if the weld surfaces are covered, like in a canister, it’s not as crazy important to get it to a press or hammer the second it’s out of the fire.
I like the forged inlay more, the subtle halo on the light parts, the stippling in the dark parts, not as clean sure, but much better looking to my eye, reminds me of mandala drawing vibes
Awesome! The Damascus has a lot more authenticity to it but the laser version looks excellent and would probably be a better option for production. Id love to make a knife from your Damascus piece if you'd be interested in a collab?! It takes some work but you could get a black/mirror contrast to it with the right techniques. For a bold pattern like that the pre etch surface finish is important. If you took it to a full mirror, then you could etch, polish, etch polish until you've got mirror highs and matt lows, then coffee or orange juice etch to darken the matt areas. Super frustrating process if you're set with getting it perfect.
It would take a lot longer, but if you started with thicker bar stock and flat ground both sides the laser etch would probably be the same depth all around, and you could get a deeper etch to start with to fit more powder, or what wody422 suggested and stamp the pattern. Or both, stamp, then use the laser to crisp it up if necessary. And I bet those two spots were just a bit of stainless that somehow welded to the stock that didn't get fully ground off.
Having done similar things with 1095 powder in thin cans for mosaics, it can be difficult to get the amount of size reduction during forging that you really need to fully consolidate the powder- particularly without the byproduct of unwanted distortion. Try it on the power hammer and forge it down a little farther, and soak the billet a bit at welding heat to help age the welds as well- should etch cleaner.
I have two, somewhat competing thoughts: On the one hand, one of the beauties of Damascus steel (to me anyways) is the wavy, distorted layered pattern, which isn't present in something with a precise stencil style pattern, so one half of my brain says that just laser etching a pattern and bluing the relief is the way to go to achieve something like this. On the other hand, pattern welded steel is awesome in its own right, even if you don't have the classic layered Damascus look. To that end, if you could arrange to use a water jet cutter (or hunt down one of the companies who make water jet cut parts to order) you could cut your pattern completely through the blank and eliminate the risk of grinding through a shallow etched weld, and ensuring the design is symmetric on both sides. If you wanted you could probably even cut your 15N20 blank, then have the negative of the pattern cut from 1090 and slot the two pieces together, negating the need for powder at all. If you do go for a reattempt at welding, I suspect that you're always going to have some distortion of the pattern just by virtue of the way the welding works mechanically. The two soft bits of metal have to be mushed together until they fuse, so any variation in temperature, force applied, material composition, variation of any kind really is going to wiggle the joint differently along its length. Even if you heated two flat bars and squeezed them uniformly, the resulting joint wouldn't be perfectly straight, so the chance of getting a pattern to fuse without distorting is vanishingly small I imagine.
I prefer the darker damascus but that's just me. The laser etching does create quite a bit of heat but over a tiny area, and the heat doesn't penetrate deeply into the metal. I don't know if it would compromise the heat treat, but because of the large area being etched I'd probably do it before heat treating. Beautiful work!
Make the holes all the way through white paint a piece to wel on the back, fill the holes with powdered copper, then weld a white painted piece on the front. The holes all the way through will help the inserts bond in better, unlike the more inlay style in this video.
Maybe you could line up some sort of limited edition thing with ridge wallet, seems like something that style of patte would be good for. Otherwise one of those longer plate bottle openers, could wack out a long line of those with the laser
This is just like sintering. Granules that are strongly compressed at high temperatures. The result is a porous mass, which explains the roughness. Cutting inserts made of tungsten carbide are also produced in this way.
I personally think the welded one looks better, looks more authentic. On my phone there seems to be illusions of edge highlights. The pure laser etched one just looks factory made. Cool idea, and nice results on both of them though. Especially for a first try
I love the experimentation. You may be on the cutting edge of a new damaskas trend. I have a 50w fiber laser and full forge. This gives me so many ideas for how to combine the two. Off to the shop.........
Oh definitely want to see more stuff like this! Its a wonderful idea, the first time you do it you learn what you did wrong and all that. The next one will be better!
This would be a much bigger project but what if you did damascus as normal but then used the laser to cut that billet into some crazy shapes to then be rewelded. Something like the process of making W damascus but using the laser to make the cuts instead of the band saw. I agree that that is a cool concept that would look stunning on a knife, michaelcthulhu makes crazy steel projects using a similar style, but i think the idea that you had in the first place is an idea worth toying around with since it is so unique and its more about the process of the making that makes it more special. You can achieve the effect with the blueing but its not "true" damascus. Obviously a huge time commitment since it takes so friggen long.
You should have used the laser to cut all the way through the first piece and totally fill it with 1095 powder. That way as you work it and and actually create a blade it won't be ground away. Possibly using a wavy pattern so you don't have to worry about the pattern distortion as it is forged. Very cool idea! I wouldn't give up on it yet.
1) When the pattern first came out I exclaimed out loud "Timothy you madman you did it." 2) I'm so happy to finally know the brand of the jackets ty ty edit: Holy crap I wrote that before getting to the ending! I agree, the etched gun blue looks better haha. But I love your creative process to get there. I do wonder if there's some application with the forge weld + laser cutter that would let you do something you otherwise couldn't. Like, could you engrave all the way through thinner sheets, and space them out such that the powder makes a somewhat 3d lattice?
try doing Damascus steel first as a base. Then 3d scanning the pattern and engraving the Damascus pattern in different depth with the laser, to give it more of a dynamic look. You can even infuse the engravings with different metals to make it "flow/mix" in to the Damascus pattern.
Great Idea Tim, I was thinking as I watched... Why not use the laser to leave a thin border around the edge of the 15N20 bar steel and reduce the rest of the surface by say .040" or [40 thousands of an inch] and the pattern cut it all the way thru. Then TiG weld a sacrificial surface plate on one side, pour the 1095 powder steel in making sure to let it fill up that bottom side w/the powder thru the cut in pattern; the thin border keeps the sacrificed cover plate slightly off the bar for the steel to fill in completely then TiG weld the other side plate on and forge weld it. I think this will give you more material to work with when welding so the pattern will come out better after grinding off that thin layer of 1095 and the 2 "side plates" Having done all that will ensure if you are making a knife outta it the pattern won't disappear when grinding the blade profile. I hope I explained my thoughts well enough.
My thought is you should try this in the same way youd do ladder Damascus. So do a traditional 50 layer(or however many) billet of Damascus. THEN cut your cool design and forge it flat again. Could come up with some wild looking patterns. Id probably not lazer the triangles with 90° angles to lower the risk of cold shuts but id love to see what you could get as far as pattern. Like a wild version of raindrop Damascus
The gun bluing could wear off over time, but would be an easy re-apply. For my damascus blades - I give re-etch instructions to my customers - via coffee etch. (Safer than playing around with ferric or muriatic) so far - no complaints and food safe!
Next time make a small can you can slide the steel in to the middle. Coat the can in white out and for the love of god let it dry good before use. then slide it in the middle and just go back n forth side to side until full. Also I have never used the powder steel but from results I have seen using a jig saw or air hammer or saws all on the side of it shakes it very well insuring all spaces get filled. The gun blue looks good. I would like to see a portrait or something in more detail.
Very cool idea! I would bet some Damascus experts could help you make this a reality; one thought I had (I'm just a fan with no forging experience so grain of salt) was that the stainless shims might have been the "grease" residue and that more grinding/sanding might be needed; if it was indeed grease, I apologize and would recommend a good surfactant like Dawn soap. Keep up the good work and God Bless you and yours!
The gun blue has been done before. I've seen it on an ax where it was laser etched then blued and another that made a vinyl mask with a laser then deep etched it. But, I've not seen damascus steel laser etched & blued. That would be pretty kool!!
Have you thought of using 3D printer/pla to create a pattern with powdered steal? Steve Schwarzer did it at a suggestion from a student. PLA just turns to carbon at forge welding temps. Use PLA 3D printed structure as a way to separate the two powders in the can until they are forge welded. At least that is the theory.
0:58 you were correct in calling it "pattern welded steel". (Two different steels welded to create a contrasting solid billet when etched) True Damascus is a crucible steel and the patterns come from part of the process and the way the steel crystallizes. It has maddened me for years that people continue to call pattern welded steel; "Damascus". It's beautiful either way. But they are two completely different things. Fz making knives has about the truest thing to "Damascus" although through a different recipe; I have ever seen on TH-cam. Check him out.
I'd love to see where the pattern goes through natural forging strikes and such. Laser is cool, don't get me wrong, but there's definitely something interesting about watching the laser precision chang through hammer strikes and nature and see that final pattern reflected on a knife, or something.
If i were a buyer not knowing the amount of time, effort, and skill that goes into the damascus/pattern weld, and you showed me 2 identical pieces with significantly different price tags and told me they would preform the same, i would buy the cheaper one. If the intention is production for sale the one that cost less to make would be the one to move forward with.
Ooh, you could use this method to create blades that appear to be made of that rare meteorite steel with the incredible Widmanstätten patterns, but actually be functional
Try taking both pieces through the forging process to make something like a knife. Try and make both of them the same to see the different results that you get from it
Try to make it cut through before Damascus forging it, you can stack thin plates with the pattern so you don't need to rely on deep laser cuts, but don't get afraid of deforming the patterns, hit it as a normal Damascus, I thin the random deviations that give real Damascus it's flair.
What about using the laser to etch grid point pretty deep like little centre punch holes for guides points to drill all the way through the stock with a drill press. You could use different sized drill bits and completely fill up the holes in the stock with different types of powder. I’ve been thinking of something like this for years.
Can you try out 3D printed damascus? General idea A line drawing is expanded upwards and scaled to fit into a canister, the cells are filled with powdered metal and sealed, PLA reduces to carbon in the canister. Unsure if it needs a vent and how long it needs to soak in the forge for but it opens the door to almost any mosaic tile you can think of.
It's a cool concept but I don't personally like it for a pattern on a blade but I think it would be awesome as a pattern for a guard or as a spacer between different handle materials. Just do the edge if possible. Or engrave a touch mark and then do the forge weld. I think that would be amazing
Should look into how tight you can get stuff with wire EDM and how the parts become one. Think of the damascus patterns you could make from layering and welling billets that are just blocks of EDM puzzles.
Machinist here: you're knocking on the door of something really cool with all of this. The problem I'm seeing is a lack of accuracy and control over your capsule, your grinding, and your material prep. First recommendation would be to start with slightly thicker stock and machine or grind it to a flat, parallel piece with square edges. This will give you better consistent in your laser etch, and contribute to a better fit in your capsule. Second, use oversized material. Give yourself a solid 1/4 of an inch on each side to work with. This keeps you from infringing on your pattern when you cut it out of the capsule. And finally, have the capsule parts milled. You did a great job making it free hand, I'm very impressed, but if you want controlled clearances for where your powdered metal is going to reside, have it milled. Do it in two halves, give it a little slot to hold your material, and then when you clamp the two halves together you can weld up the sides and you're good to go. Finally, crack it open on a CNC machine tool. With every step in your process kept to a higher degree of accuracy, you should have no problem milling away the excess material to reveal your finished product. Using a die with stops on it for the welding process could give you greater control over the welding process as well, allowing you to keep the finished capsule a set thickness after forging, and keep it flat and parallel; could allow you to use more force without creating any distortion in the pattern? Might solve your pitting and cracking problems. Doing it "right" might end up being expensive and requiring tools you don't have in your shop, but the results could be incredible if you could nail down the process.
Dude, very similar to Elijah's cannister from firecreek forge, only instead of lasers, he just puts the canoe down and uses rnd stock for the design. If this works, could lazer a scene from a movie into the steel and fill with powder.
I guess the thing I think is cool about your Damascus steel idea is that it wouldn't wear away over time. Like you could make a pattern on an axe head or something that gets used alot, and the pattern would always be visible. Maybe it would just need an acid etch every now and then, but it would stay. Would the gun blueing ware away over time?
This is a pretty method for pattern welding. Just like the 3d printed cannister stuff. Wonder if water-jet might work too? If you the same shape out of 2 metals and weld them
I like your innovative thinking here. what about cut that pattern out, do that invisible fit between two metals, assuming they won't cold weld (or could they?) then see what would take to get them to weld Great idea with the stainless foils too that's a nice forge! first time viewer here
I would rather you pursue this as a damascus potential, mainly for the benefit of the community, at least until you get some others trying it. However I think this alternative version would make an excellent looking sanmai, specifically in hatchets and tomahawks where you can still weld in a nice tough 52100 or 1095 for the cutting edge.
Laser, silicon bronze braze, and grind? Should be able to Heat Treat still too. Might be a fun experiment! Always love the experiments you come up with!
Use two thick plates. One in 1095 and one in 15N20. Laser the 15n20 as you did, but etch the 1095 with a reverse image and press the designs together. Then you should be able to grind one away until you get to the welded pattern with little or no distortion. Its very easy with the fiber.
Very interesting idea! Have you tried it?
This would be awesome!! But also pushes the envelope on Damascus images and text rather than boring Damascus patterns which we've seen 20000 times...
@@TimothyDyck I havent but we have several 50w fiber and I really cant see how it would fail. It would be easier as we have a surface grinder (converted to sander). You would only have to weld the one edge and it would have zero oxygen. As Randall said, any pattern should hold up 100% with sharp edges, especially if you weld with a press.
Yes! This idea right here! Should be very doable I think and your imagination would be your only real limit when it comes to the patterns.
This is basically how the woodwork guys do inlays.
Your stainless foil stuck to the powder because it is clean. Makers who use stainless foil this way heat it to let it get a layer of oxidation on it first. The oxide will keep it from welding to the rest of the elements in the canister.
You should say this again up in the comment he replied to, by replying directly to him. He'll be more likely to see it.
The "muddiness" of the 15N20 looks like it's because there is still a thin layer of 1090 powder on top because you can see a bright "halo" around the edge of each of the features which I suspect is the real 15n20 underneath.. Grind it a bit more and try the etch again..
The pattern welded "dirty" steel looks so much better than the etched and polished blank. The dirtiness comes from new alloys that you created in the welding process. The non ferrous materials kinda flow around while hot, and that's what makes it beautiful.
Completely agree. The other one looks like a cheap chinesium copy of pattern welded steel.
I’ve had an idea like this for a while. Unfortunately I’m just a layman who watches videos on TH-cam. But I was thinking something like family names or other text actually patterned into the blade instead of surface etched
Do not give up on this idea. Think of the applications as far as designing a layout of metals to increase a knife's durability. What I envision is a knife that starts with pure mild steel going into a large honeycomb pattern moving across to a smaller honeycomb pattern. The opposite side is reverse. A hard steel ( the blade edge side) going into a large honeycomb pattern and then across towards the mild steel side with smaller honeycomb. A Damascus billet designed to have a hard edge and absorb shocks and be flexible.
Oh yeah. He definitely should iterate on this stuff. Firstly he will learn more about the process itself and it looks like there is still much to learn, Secondly all that institutional knowledge will let him try more and more daring designs and processes over time. This is very promising.
I like the imperfect forge welded one, it's definitely a lot more work but I think it's pretty cool!
Cool, it's like a forge welded inlay!
I can't remember the channel but spraying the inside of the box with white paint, made it super easy to remove form the Damascus after heat. My guess is that it's the titanium oxide in the white paint.
Could do a unique pattern "rain drop" Damascus with that laser.
That would be cool.
This was my first thought as well. That laser could make some pretty bitchin raindrops.
I love these types of experiments! They always lead to new ways of thinking and inovations. Before you said that you didn’t want to do this as damascus, I thought it would be interesting to have the laser etching reversed where the skeleton around the triangles is removed, leaving the triangles as the high points. This should make it easier for the powder to get into all the recesses as well as have it be a fully connected lattice around the triangles. Nice work! Keep the creations coming.
Here's a thought: Can your laser sinter the powder? If so, lock down the workpiece on the laser bed and let it do it's thing, then just add powder without picking up the workpiece and run a sintering pass. You might have to look up the laser's working temps to see if it's capable of sintering this powder, but it might yield result.
Without an inert atmosphere it would oxidize the powder.
Damn, I just posted the same thing and then saw your post.
Could you fill the holes with the powder, then cover the steel with paper masking tape? This would prevent the powder from falling out & the paper would get vaporised when you heat it. That way you could make a casing that fits it like a sheath to a knife.
If the powder is fine enough, you could use vibration (an ultrasonic cleaner without water, or a power tool touching the metal) to get it to fill even very tiniest of holes - like a thin groove the thickness of a ball point pen. That way you could create patterns like the branching veins in a leaf (0.20mm grooves), or natural fractals (think cracks in drying mud, or an image of lightning), even the scales of a lizard.
If this works, this would make utterly unique damascus patterns that would be really popular.
You could even "sign" your work with a laser-etched fingerprint hidden on the tang.
This illustrates one of the things I love about the smithing community; we share our ideas! Since 3D printed/cellulose damascus patterns are now done by lots of smiths, this looks like an interesting variant; one could laser in a name, or corporate logo, or whatever and fill the impressions with 1090. Might work even better with the canoe canister technique.
The enthusiasm and precision with which you approach everything is great
If you had some really thin metal, you could engrave your business card on it and used the bluing technique. That would be a killer business card.
Cool experiment! Tip on canister damascus, the guy from Fire Creek Forge here on yt says regular white spray paint works better than the foil for keeping the canister from sticking to the billet. I believe he mentioned that it was the titanium dioxide in the paint creates an unweldable barrier between the steel and the canister. Give it a try next time!
One piece I have learned from others, and my own experience with Damascus is that the majority of the weld happen in the fire. It’s important to get the welds set quickly if you have open steel that is susceptible to oxidation, but if the weld surfaces are covered, like in a canister, it’s not as crazy important to get it to a press or hammer the second it’s out of the fire.
I get excited every time I see you uploaded a video! Give me more!!
I like the forged inlay more, the subtle halo on the light parts, the stippling in the dark parts, not as clean sure, but much better looking to my eye, reminds me of mandala drawing vibes
That’s what experimentation is about, Tim! Great job!
The entire video I was thinking there must be an easier way of doing this.
And you came up with it in the end.
Awesome! The Damascus has a lot more authenticity to it but the laser version looks excellent and would probably be a better option for production. Id love to make a knife from your Damascus piece if you'd be interested in a collab?! It takes some work but you could get a black/mirror contrast to it with the right techniques. For a bold pattern like that the pre etch surface finish is important. If you took it to a full mirror, then you could etch, polish, etch polish until you've got mirror highs and matt lows, then coffee or orange juice etch to darken the matt areas. Super frustrating process if you're set with getting it perfect.
Maybe that was my problem! I never polished the 15n20 up enough. Thanks for that tip!
My favorite blacksmith on TH-cam
It would take a lot longer, but if you started with thicker bar stock and flat ground both sides the laser etch would probably be the same depth all around, and you could get a deeper etch to start with to fit more powder, or what wody422 suggested and stamp the pattern. Or both, stamp, then use the laser to crisp it up if necessary. And I bet those two spots were just a bit of stainless that somehow welded to the stock that didn't get fully ground off.
That is a really cool idea! I can’t wait to see where else you go with this. Great video as usual! Cheers👍
Having done similar things with 1095 powder in thin cans for mosaics, it can be difficult to get the amount of size reduction during forging that you really need to fully consolidate the powder- particularly without the byproduct of unwanted distortion.
Try it on the power hammer and forge it down a little farther, and soak the billet a bit at welding heat to help age the welds as well- should etch cleaner.
I have two, somewhat competing thoughts:
On the one hand, one of the beauties of Damascus steel (to me anyways) is the wavy, distorted layered pattern, which isn't present in something with a precise stencil style pattern, so one half of my brain says that just laser etching a pattern and bluing the relief is the way to go to achieve something like this.
On the other hand, pattern welded steel is awesome in its own right, even if you don't have the classic layered Damascus look. To that end, if you could arrange to use a water jet cutter (or hunt down one of the companies who make water jet cut parts to order) you could cut your pattern completely through the blank and eliminate the risk of grinding through a shallow etched weld, and ensuring the design is symmetric on both sides. If you wanted you could probably even cut your 15N20 blank, then have the negative of the pattern cut from 1090 and slot the two pieces together, negating the need for powder at all.
If you do go for a reattempt at welding, I suspect that you're always going to have some distortion of the pattern just by virtue of the way the welding works mechanically. The two soft bits of metal have to be mushed together until they fuse, so any variation in temperature, force applied, material composition, variation of any kind really is going to wiggle the joint differently along its length. Even if you heated two flat bars and squeezed them uniformly, the resulting joint wouldn't be perfectly straight, so the chance of getting a pattern to fuse without distorting is vanishingly small I imagine.
A way to keep the layers separate is by using a dirty flame from an acetylene torch to put a bunch of soot on the surfaces you don't want to stick.
Why not make normal three layer Damascus and then laser etch away both sides of the outer layers. Then flattening out again?
I prefer the darker damascus but that's just me.
The laser etching does create quite a bit of heat but over a tiny area, and the heat doesn't penetrate deeply into the metal. I don't know if it would compromise the heat treat, but because of the large area being etched I'd probably do it before heat treating.
Beautiful work!
Make the holes all the way through white paint a piece to wel on the back, fill the holes with powdered copper, then weld a white painted piece on the front. The holes all the way through will help the inserts bond in better, unlike the more inlay style in this video.
Maybe you could line up some sort of limited edition thing with ridge wallet, seems like something that style of patte would be good for.
Otherwise one of those longer plate bottle openers, could wack out a long line of those with the laser
This is just like sintering. Granules that are strongly compressed at high temperatures. The result is a porous mass, which explains the roughness. Cutting inserts made of tungsten carbide are also produced in this way.
I personally think the welded one looks better, looks more authentic. On my phone there seems to be illusions of edge highlights.
The pure laser etched one just looks factory made.
Cool idea, and nice results on both of them though. Especially for a first try
You didn't miss something. The Damascus is cool! Expand on the idea! Get some gator piss to etch it
Timothy, you are onto something here. As you unraveled, this notion leads to many possible avenues. Good work!
I love the experimentation. You may be on the cutting edge of a new damaskas trend. I have a 50w fiber laser and full forge. This gives me so many ideas for how to combine the two. Off to the shop.........
Oh definitely want to see more stuff like this! Its a wonderful idea, the first time you do it you learn what you did wrong and all that. The next one will be better!
It's always good when blacksmithing Matthew McConaughey uploads something new
Two words: wood grain.
Also, oxidize the stainless foil so it won't weld. White paint or Wite-Out might contaminate the powder under heat.
This would be a much bigger project but what if you did damascus as normal but then used the laser to cut that billet into some crazy shapes to then be rewelded. Something like the process of making W damascus but using the laser to make the cuts instead of the band saw. I agree that that is a cool concept that would look stunning on a knife, michaelcthulhu makes crazy steel projects using a similar style, but i think the idea that you had in the first place is an idea worth toying around with since it is so unique and its more about the process of the making that makes it more special. You can achieve the effect with the blueing but its not "true" damascus. Obviously a huge time commitment since it takes so friggen long.
You created an optical illusion called the Hermann grid illusion. You'll always see dark spots on the bright lines between the shapes.
You should have used the laser to cut all the way through the first piece and totally fill it with 1095 powder. That way as you work it and and actually create a blade it won't be ground away. Possibly using a wavy pattern so you don't have to worry about the pattern distortion as it is forged. Very cool idea! I wouldn't give up on it yet.
Good idea, removing the stainless foil for quenching. This jacket traps air, slowing the quench.
1) When the pattern first came out I exclaimed out loud "Timothy you madman you did it."
2) I'm so happy to finally know the brand of the jackets ty ty
edit: Holy crap I wrote that before getting to the ending! I agree, the etched gun blue looks better haha. But I love your creative process to get there. I do wonder if there's some application with the forge weld + laser cutter that would let you do something you otherwise couldn't. Like, could you engrave all the way through thinner sheets, and space them out such that the powder makes a somewhat 3d lattice?
try doing Damascus steel first as a base. Then 3d scanning the pattern and engraving the Damascus pattern in different depth with the laser, to give it more of a dynamic look. You can even infuse the engravings with different metals to make it "flow/mix" in to the Damascus pattern.
Great Idea Tim, I was thinking as I watched...
Why not use the laser to leave a thin border around the edge of the 15N20 bar steel and reduce the rest of the surface by say .040" or [40 thousands of an inch] and the pattern cut it all the way thru. Then TiG weld a sacrificial surface plate on one side, pour the 1095 powder steel in making sure to let it fill up that bottom side w/the powder thru the cut in pattern; the thin border keeps the sacrificed cover plate slightly off the bar for the steel to fill in completely then TiG weld the other side plate on and forge weld it. I think this will give you more material to work with when welding so the pattern will come out better after grinding off that thin layer of 1095 and the 2 "side plates"
Having done all that will ensure if you are making a knife outta it the pattern won't disappear when grinding the blade profile.
I hope I explained my thoughts well enough.
I love when you find a way to streamline a process. 👍🏽
My thought is you should try this in the same way youd do ladder Damascus. So do a traditional 50 layer(or however many) billet of Damascus. THEN cut your cool design and forge it flat again. Could come up with some wild looking patterns. Id probably not lazer the triangles with 90° angles to lower the risk of cold shuts but id love to see what you could get as far as pattern. Like a wild version of raindrop Damascus
Cool idea. You just gave me another interesting idea for using the laser for damascus.
The gun bluing could wear off over time, but would be an easy re-apply.
For my damascus blades - I give re-etch instructions to my customers - via coffee etch. (Safer than playing around with ferric or muriatic) so far - no complaints and food safe!
the smudge isnt grease, its the remnants of the stainless steel sleeve that didnt quite grind off due to a miniscule fluctuation in the surface
Next time make a small can you can slide the steel in to the middle. Coat the can in white out and for the love of god let it dry good before use. then slide it in the middle and just go back n forth side to side until full. Also I have never used the powder steel but from results I have seen using a jig saw or air hammer or saws all on the side of it shakes it very well insuring all spaces get filled. The gun blue looks good. I would like to see a portrait or something in more detail.
Very cool idea! I would bet some Damascus experts could help you make this a reality; one thought I had (I'm just a fan with no forging experience so grain of salt) was that the stainless shims might have been the "grease" residue and that more grinding/sanding might be needed; if it was indeed grease, I apologize and would recommend a good surfactant like Dawn soap. Keep up the good work and God Bless you and yours!
I think the Damascus looks better than the cold blue one!
Please!!! Don't give up on this idea... You could be the new damascus father 😎👍🏻
Cool concept! Looks like some sort of Mandalorian currency.
The gun blue has been done before. I've seen it on an ax where it was laser etched then blued and another that made a vinyl mask with a laser then deep etched it.
But, I've not seen damascus steel laser etched & blued. That would be pretty kool!!
Have you thought of using 3D printer/pla to create a pattern with powdered steal? Steve Schwarzer did it at a suggestion from a student. PLA just turns to carbon at forge welding temps. Use PLA 3D printed structure as a way to separate the two powders in the can until they are forge welded. At least that is the theory.
I absolutely love the "muddy" look of the first one!
Inlay Damascus very cool!
0:58 you were correct in calling it "pattern welded steel". (Two different steels welded to create a contrasting solid billet when etched) True Damascus is a crucible steel and the patterns come from part of the process and the way the steel crystallizes. It has maddened me for years that people continue to call pattern welded steel; "Damascus". It's beautiful either way. But they are two completely different things. Fz making knives has about the truest thing to "Damascus" although through a different recipe; I have ever seen on TH-cam. Check him out.
The trick with the stainless steel foil is that it has to be oxidized before going into the canister or it will bond to both metals
Like a forge welded inlay. Still had a super cool look to it.
You should try laser through the bar, then add your powdered steel. Great work as always.
I'd love to see where the pattern goes through natural forging strikes and such. Laser is cool, don't get me wrong, but there's definitely something interesting about watching the laser precision chang through hammer strikes and nature and see that final pattern reflected on a knife, or something.
Well, I actually like the forge welded sample. Has much more handcrafted vibes. The laser one is perfect. For better or for worse. ;)
If i were a buyer not knowing the amount of time, effort, and skill that goes into the damascus/pattern weld, and you showed me 2 identical pieces with significantly different price tags and told me they would preform the same, i would buy the cheaper one. If the intention is production for sale the one that cost less to make would be the one to move forward with.
Ooh, you could use this method to create blades that appear to be made of that rare meteorite steel with the incredible Widmanstätten patterns, but actually be functional
Try taking both pieces through the forging process to make something like a knife. Try and make both of them the same to see the different results that you get from it
It worked!!!!! Awesome!!!!
Try to make it cut through before Damascus forging it, you can stack thin plates with the pattern so you don't need to rely on deep laser cuts, but don't get afraid of deforming the patterns, hit it as a normal Damascus, I thin the random deviations that give real Damascus it's flair.
Based on the initial description of the process, I would call this an inlay.
U got your self some new mosaic damascus my friend
What about using the laser to etch grid point pretty deep like little centre punch holes for guides points to drill all the way through the stock with a drill press. You could use different sized drill bits and completely fill up the holes in the stock with different types of powder. I’ve been thinking of something like this for years.
That’s Damascus Tattoo 😂
Love this new method!
Can you try out 3D printed damascus? General idea A line drawing is expanded upwards and scaled to fit into a canister, the cells are filled with powdered metal and sealed, PLA reduces to carbon in the canister. Unsure if it needs a vent and how long it needs to soak in the forge for but it opens the door to almost any mosaic tile you can think of.
It's a cool concept but I don't personally like it for a pattern on a blade but I think it would be awesome as a pattern for a guard or as a spacer between different handle materials. Just do the edge if possible. Or engrave a touch mark and then do the forge weld. I think that would be amazing
Should look into how tight you can get stuff with wire EDM and how the parts become one. Think of the damascus patterns you could make from layering and welling billets that are just blocks of EDM puzzles.
Machinist here: you're knocking on the door of something really cool with all of this.
The problem I'm seeing is a lack of accuracy and control over your capsule, your grinding, and your material prep.
First recommendation would be to start with slightly thicker stock and machine or grind it to a flat, parallel piece with square edges. This will give you better consistent in your laser etch, and contribute to a better fit in your capsule.
Second, use oversized material. Give yourself a solid 1/4 of an inch on each side to work with. This keeps you from infringing on your pattern when you cut it out of the capsule.
And finally, have the capsule parts milled. You did a great job making it free hand, I'm very impressed, but if you want controlled clearances for where your powdered metal is going to reside, have it milled. Do it in two halves, give it a little slot to hold your material, and then when you clamp the two halves together you can weld up the sides and you're good to go.
Finally, crack it open on a CNC machine tool. With every step in your process kept to a higher degree of accuracy, you should have no problem milling away the excess material to reveal your finished product.
Using a die with stops on it for the welding process could give you greater control over the welding process as well, allowing you to keep the finished capsule a set thickness after forging, and keep it flat and parallel; could allow you to use more force without creating any distortion in the pattern? Might solve your pitting and cracking problems.
Doing it "right" might end up being expensive and requiring tools you don't have in your shop, but the results could be incredible if you could nail down the process.
I'd like to see what happens if you let it squish and deform on the power hammer. Even fold it a few times to see what the pattern turns into.
The last one obviously look cleaner, but I prefer the first one. Hard to explain why
the first try looks cool for post apocalyptic sci fi look. if you were into making fantasy blades it would be great for a signature style.
a knife, a pen maybe, a bracelet, a frame foto.
something that can attract people
Dude, very similar to Elijah's cannister from firecreek forge, only instead of lasers, he just puts the canoe down and uses rnd stock for the design. If this works, could lazer a scene from a movie into the steel and fill with powder.
I guess the thing I think is cool about your Damascus steel idea is that it wouldn't wear away over time. Like you could make a pattern on an axe head or something that gets used alot, and the pattern would always be visible. Maybe it would just need an acid etch every now and then, but it would stay. Would the gun blueing ware away over time?
WIth rounded edges that would be an awesome paperweight. I got the money right here.
This is a pretty method for pattern welding. Just like the 3d printed cannister stuff. Wonder if water-jet might work too? If you the same shape out of 2 metals and weld them
I think it's really cool and pretty
I would engrave through the piece and fill it with powder. Leave enough material to have a full 15n20 edge. Much cooler piece than just gun blue.
Nice work. I think there is room for both methods, depending on what you're after, or a client would want.
I like your innovative thinking here. what about cut that pattern out, do that invisible fit between two metals, assuming they won't cold weld (or could they?) then see what would take to get them to weld
Great idea with the stainless foils too
that's a nice forge! first time viewer here
I would rather you pursue this as a damascus potential, mainly for the benefit of the community, at least until you get some others trying it.
However I think this alternative version would make an excellent looking sanmai, specifically in hatchets and tomahawks where you can still weld in a nice tough 52100 or 1095 for the cutting edge.
You should look into a metal 3D printing sponsorship to print some complex matrix's to make some really wild pattern weld designs.
Laser etch then fill with copper, brass or gold inlay.
This is pretty similar to plug damascus essentially. Really cool way of doing things!
Laser, silicon bronze braze, and grind? Should be able to Heat Treat still too. Might be a fun experiment! Always love the experiments you come up with!
This is such a cool idea
So cool. It reminds me of some sort Star Wars mandalorian artifact. I don’t know what you are making but I want one.