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The Illusion of BALANCE In Warhammer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- Hello everyone today its time to talk about the balance state of warhammer of the illusion of balance in warhammer. But oh boy I sure do love it when my armies get nerfed because of other armies causing issues its so great.
So sit back relax and enjoy some of the goofy animations I made for thiss video and oh boy this is the most I think I have done to date.
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VFX: vfx.production...
Galaxy: • Galaxy in 4K ║ Animati...
Music Used:
TH-cam Music Library (ask in comments)
------------Chapters---------------
00:00 - What Is BALANCE
01:00 - The Numbers Mason What Do They Mean (Animations)
01:32 - Watchers Of The Meta
02:28 - When Everyone Is Overpowered Nobody Is
03:02- The A-TEAM & b-team
04:03 - We Always Break The Game
04:38 - CHOOSE YOUR CHEESE (animation)
05:36 - ITS TREASON THEN & Low WInrate Go BRRRRRRR
06:59 - I AM (PISSED ABOUT) LEGENDS
07:56 - WHY GW WHY...
08:28 - THE GIGA CHAD Costcodian Shield Captains
#vtuber #warhammer40k #balance #warhammermeta #legends #complaining #tabletopgame #warhammervtuber #40kvtuber #miniaturepainting #warhammer #gamesworkshop #miniaturepainter #virtualyoutuber #horusheresy #envtubers #pileofshame #custodes #spacemarines #imperialknights #miniaturepainter #gamesworkshop #money #pricehike
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Thanks you for watching & I hope everyone enjoys this video because I sure had a lot of fun editing all the silly animations and images scattered throughout the video. If you found it funny why don't you consider dropping a LIKE & hitting the subscribe button. Since any for of engagament helps the channel even commenting below.
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Once again thank you for watching my silly S#!$post about Warhammer.
As far as funny interactions go, Chaos Demons can deep strike ~4 Greater Demons and 2 Princes on turn 2 if you goof and don’t screen for it. Learned that the hard way when Belakor, Shelaxi, a Keeper of Secrets and two Princes dropped into my back line
The hilarious little edits and your commentary is actually the reason why I liked and subscribed, hopefully you can cover some Age of Sigmar stuff too. You're goin places, and hopefully that involves a silver play button.
@@Vector-li9gz thankyou, I plan on starting sigmar cuz funny rats. Will probably see if I can find skaventide in a month or so on ebay for cheap since edition boxes usually go for cheap.
havent had a chance to test the funny interaction yet is that with shield host detachment rule and from the hall of armouries enhancement, you can make a shield captain with a castellan axe in to a can opener with 6A 10S -2AP and 4dmg and if you put him into a unit of allarus you can pull golden light cheese on top of that
@@Nikke_Knatterton dont forget the rerolls
Balancing a plank of wood on a flat surface is hard man
Not the same thing
There is no defense for the codex system. All rules should be free online, and all armies rules should be updated and balanced at once. Make codexs lore and art books with modeling and painting advice, not over priced and instantly incorrect rules sets.
Once the game it's close to balance, it's time for a new edition to start this all over again. Isn't this fun guys. Let's play 10th edition now instead of keeping a edition around for 5 to 10 years.
Gotta sell them books don'tcha know, GW can't afford to stay in business if they aren't constantly pushing overpriced paper at you!
At the start of 10th, i had a 20 man block of necron wariors with an overlord, orican and 2 cyripto thrauls.
I tank a full 2000 point shooting phase from tau and the dude killed 2 wariors and 1 thraul.
He gave up soon after
I hate to say this, but this particular post illustrates why I absolutely refuse to play 10th Edition after my first introduction to the new rules. My first experience was very similar to what your opponent went through, and this was after a couple months as I figured I should give the rules time to get patched after hearing similar stories.
It did not help my generic Astartes, Guardsmen, or Chaos armies (Death Guard and CSM) as what I had was not competitive with even casual lists, though I would normally just assume it was an issue with what I prefer which is usually balanced armies or only leaning a bit toward specific playstyles with enough versatility to pivot into an aggressive/defensive mindset depending on the flow of the game.
Turns out it's just how the rules were made for 10th with the armies I have being absolutely horribly balanced in favor of losing after having strength/toughness reworked for Melta, Krak, and Plasma weaponry. Funnily enough all of the newer models GW has put out for 10th and the tail end of 9th are mostly unaffected.
Recently had this happwn to me in a 1k game. All of my shots before I quit only destroyed 1 crypto thrall 6 immortals (effectively 9 but cp reanimate) and 3 warriors. He wasn't running meta overlord but technomancer instead and would have brought the immortal squad back to near full strength and the warrior to full strength. Was the most absolutely worse experience I've ever had. I understand the lore reasoning but isn't fun fighting a "I always get models back" as it just felt like a losing game of attrition. The fact it's an automatic 1d3 wounds every turn for most units is absurd
Of course the game is balanced because I’m the only one in the play group having fun!
Funny Ork interaction:
Trukk had a tankshock of 10, because they have a shitty useless wrecking ball as meele wargear that does nothing but have strength of 10.
Meaning the 50 point units could relably tankshock into anything that wasn't heavy armor and one shot it.
Yep. Pretty much the only way my trukks have ever done damage is via Tank Shock.
What's even funnier is that during WAAAGH the weapon's strength increases to 11 which affects (or rather used to) tank shock. This means that instead of rolling 10 dice for the stratagem against T10 targets you would roll 13 dice instead
Which is fitting for a wrecking ball. Swing in, f things up, do nothing due to the absence of momentum.
@@comlitbeta7532 Still better that tank shock is now done with toughness, so that the actual purpose of tank shock - giving vehicles with poor meele power some umpf - actually works instead of just buffing meele vehicles
I can sympathize with the early GW idea that a miniature game can't be entirely balanced. You make a gentlemen's agreement with your mates or have a ref around.
What a whimsical thumbnail
GW balance disaster, constant refreshing of rules and constantly powering up new release units is why One Page Rules and other alternative rulesets are gaining huge popularity.
Compared to 9th, things are extremely balanced. A worthwhile note I have to add is the balance doesn’t matter if you and your friend agree to have a fun game running your favorite units instead of the meta list
Also Kasrkin could give themselves bs and ws 1+ through stacking orders until the recent dataslate
>laughs in 4th edition
Tau lost a lot of Sept/unit fluff from 9th, but I'd gladly keep this new system over having every character ability revolve around crisis suits
Possibly. But it's also far less Interesting rules wise, plus the constant nerfing and legending of units is a severe bad feel for the Paying Customer
I would argue it does matter if the units you like or even the faction you like is either way too week or way to strong as even if you play of meta it can feel bad if you just fundamentally can't do anything cue necrons in 9th
Death guard player here, i found a really cheesy strat for a 100% win rate
1. release a deadly pathogen into the game store
2. profit
Currently I use big deathwatch kill team bricks, because attaching a captain to one kill team means that for one CP you can teleport and then bolter strat two kill teams wherever you like each turn.
Believing rumours gw throws stuff to legends mostly because they have internal war for who is going to get credit for kit sales ,that's why hh stuff was locked in hh and why bestmen were stolen from aos .
Yup. But Bad Business will come to bite em back
There is so many better games than 40k, but gw is just like he imperium, it's dying because it's fucked up, but it's so massive that it goes forward thanks to inertia
Would you care to name any?
I remember how excited I got when a bunch of SpaceMarine Units in 9th Edition gained Free WarGear.
Orks had a bunch of stuff that was fairly well balanced after their codex, then GW turned up and just kicked them off a cliff instead of being sensible and just tweaking the points slightly. Didn't even buff the units or detachments that suck.
Humans are basically hard wired to find and exploit loopholes. This is why you can't skip independent testing.
I was always the outcast who thought gw went a bit derp with 10th, and was just a hordey money grab. So I just wrote my own rules.
I've had this exact conversation about the rule books being worthless due to the constant DEVASTATING balance brought to them. In essence if you wanna play you bring your rulebook and a binder with the new updated rules.
The thing is, that in 40k, some armys are always to strong and some armys are always to weak. Thats just how it is, there are to many factions and to many units to get it truely balanced. Something will always be usable to break the game. But at one point GW wanted to push competetive play. And now, because they want to balance the game around competetive themself instead of the tournaments making house rules to fix stuff, they push out new balance data sheets so often and so massive, that for casuals its way harder to keep up. I have to download and read new pdfs every 3-4 games. Dont know where, but I heard someone say 40k these days feels more like an esport and as someone who followed certain esports closely in the past, it honestly feels that way.
All they really need to do is get every army within 45-55 winrate and make the shitty units not that shitty so you don't feel bad running whatever you want. Like, ork lootas are terrible and always have been and it feels bad running them even in casual play. I don't need them to be good, I just need them to be playable. I'm sure everyone has that kind of unit in their army too that they want to run but don't, like ogryn for guard.
An early Ork cheese was when Ghazkgull was able to fit into a trukk and still only took up the space of 1 model
lol
If the cerastuses get legended I think every single chaos knight player will suffer a stroke because gw made the Lancer so much better than every other option for basically the whole edition that I would say about 40-60% of players have one. I don't but I have a castigator so I will be just as sad.
with the release of the 40k and the AoS companion apps there really is no point to being forced to buy the physical book while all i need is that damn code for the app. Just add a second product in the store that is JUST the code and obviously reduce the price.
This is a result of gw just not being a games company. They're a model company that kinda sorta makes a game, simply because the game drives the sale of models. This is why they treat the 40k tabletop game like it's a video game with constant updates. It reminds me of how Riot Games likes to refresh League of Legends with new items and map features, but they also run a free to play game, not a tabletop where you spend tons of money and then tons of time and effort to make your stuff look presentable.
It's all so tiring.
Reivers are still allowed to deep strike with a lieutenant in phobos armor, who then shoots and moves them d6" closer to a target and then charge. Keep in mind this is the shootier phobos lt. Not the combat oriented reiver lt.
Not much of a cheese but a fun combo I run as a meme. Taking a 20 man krieg blob with a marshal and psyker. Marshal gives a 5+ feel no pain, psyker a 4+ invuln save, and krieg medic gives me D3 models back every turn. Very fun to just attrition up the board and hold center.
Honestly the only way to play the game any more is to 3d print a collection. Why spend a grand to get an army on the table when half of it sucks by time you finish painting it
GW across most of their games seems afraid to let things be good. And then as soon as a model or faction rule ends up accidentally being good at its role, its busted in comparison to everything else.
Since every new edition we get a lot of new space marines in edition box but also in between so they ll be a problem of too many space marine models to balance but i guess thats other days problem while armies like dark eldar cry in corner.
Before the nerf, oneshotting abaddon with a basilisk thanks to the stacking "spotter" ability of the scout sentinel
Combining with take aim
Standing still with heavy
Yea well...
For me end of 9th ED was peak 40k rules . As an imperial guard player getting the codex last sucked, and its looking like that for 10th as well. Lots of my blood angels as well went into legends. Back to corvus belli infinity for me!
Adrax plus six bladuard and an apothecary coming out of land raider. Just turns salamanders into orkz with how many dice and damage your throwing out.
Oath of moment them and your rerolling hits and wounds and you can give them plus 1 to wound.
Stuffing a bunch of exalted Eightbound in a rhino is an interesting reaction
You see, if all units have unbearably low stats with a low point cost, james workshop can sell you more minis to fill the same, 2000 point cap while also keeping all units equally bad so balance is easier! It's a complete win-win
Kek
to quote the ad with the wrong audio "darling hold my hand"
at the start of tenth, GW forgot to put in the Trukk rules that they cant hold ghaz, so you could put ghaz and meganobz in a trukk and it would be perfectly legal
I really think at this point GW and their customers are in an abusive relationship. Why should they fix their shit when you mofos will fork out for their stuff anyway? Exploit me harder daddy GW.
A lot of you guys are missing the most important part: GW doesn't care about the players or win rates. They are a company and their final goal it's JUST sell miniatures. So the balances depend on this las5 point at the end. Just it. A lot of non-competitive players will buy the poster boys (marines) or orks even if they're thrash because they don't chase the meta, but maybe the competitive players will do with the meta even if the armies are full of old models like Blood Angels, Grey Knights or other armies
The balance is actually amazing right now considering how many miving larts there are. Hell, theres like a 4% higher chance you'll win as white in chess or something, so the fact something as complex as 40k isn't too far of is insane
Not really strong and requires legends, but certainly gives a funny mental image. The Imperial Space Marine gives any unit he's attached to Assault for all their guns. He can be attached to devastator squads. Meaning your devastators can now run around the board at full tilt firing their heavy weapons.
Captain with fire discipline leading 10 sternguard in devastator doctrine + oath plus incursors gives you 30 shot bolters with sustained on 5’s, hits on 2’s, re-roll all hits, and re-roll wounds of 1, devastating wounds. 20 mortal wounds to a klos in one turn.
When 10th came out they fucked up the grot data sheet, long story short grots had toughness 5 in melee
rendmaster's stacking point is super funny. 5 damage 5 ap bloodletter are silly.
I think AoS is unironically a better game system. Alas AoS doesn't has chaos mechs
Yeah....we now play our own game...Bolter-Action 40K...9th edition codex and Bolt Action dice activation for units.
No cp / no strats / no warlord traits / no relics.....each unit gets one move and shoot /fight like Bolt Action.
GW defines an army as being balanced if it has a win rate of 50% plus or minus 5%, not 50% plus or minus 2 or 3%.
For funny interactions, there was the Maggie and thr Muffinins in the sisters of battle index. Where a full melta squad of battle sisters led by palintine+dialogus near the triumph could guarantee up to 3 max damage melta gun hits off an overwatch
Or I guess just max arcos + a preacher which could 1 shot thing like Catan and greater deamons
one key point about 40k:
the game was originally designed to be a role-playing game with skirmish rules. a typical game included: ONE Sgt, NINE marines.
that's it, that's your entire force.
of the NINE marines, up to TWO of them could have support weapons.
the same rules designed for a single squad, are now considered 'good enough' to field large quantities of forces.
and people wonder why GW is re-writing the entire game every 3 to 4 years, and modifying the current version every 3 months.
the game has been completely broken since 3rd version. it needed a complete overhaul in the early 90s. 10 versions later, it's still completely broken.
anyone that thinks this game can be balanced, probably thinks tic-tac-toe is a genius level war game!
Thank you for this Video! Keep Spitting Truth!
7:39 Legends. One day all the Hubris from GW will pile up.... and it will FALL!
I play Bolt Action... and Warlord Games seems to listen more to the Community and so seems to be the case for CMON and A SONG OF IC AND FIRE.
Sure they are smaller. But they still seem to Care.
True balance in a game as complex as 40K is basically impossible. How do you balance all skills in all gameplay contexts against each other consider there are like 5000 "things" in all of 40K? All they can really do is make some changes, do some initial play testing and then push it out and see what happens.
I am new to Warhammer i may be dumb i may be bad but i think the ultimate starter set is pretty unbalanced.
You should have talked with a game designer on this. Many things you think are based on flawed knowledge about game design.
I agree. Even the most basic research would have helped
Personally while I understand the point of balance in a war game it feels like it's too much balance that it begins to suck the flavor and fun out of the game and is more about trying to cater to the competitive crowd who don't even make up the largest portion. If people really want to play a real balance game then they should just play chess.
Haven't played 40k with GWs rules in a very long time, but in 8th edition i won almost every game because the admech robots were stupid.
I also had a lovely combo if i played as ryza where i could
give plasma weapons +1 to wound and +1 damage (1cp)
+1 to hit for a squad of robots and destroyers next to eachother (2cp)
shove a dominus near them for re-roll 1s
firing 6d6 plasama shots at strength 8 + 1 to wound ap 3 damage 3, hitting on 3s re-rolling 1s. It could delete an titanic unit on turn 1.
Then the robots get to shoot.
My Lord of Change comes in clutch when I play T-Sons to change a few cheeky 1's and 2's to 6's
Bottom tier armies are not actually screwed vs top tier armies. Often the bottom tier armies have good matchups vs the top tiers, just not vs everything else.
I buy models using rule of cool and I play chaos marines and this is literally (I know in 9th they were strong for some time) the faction rule isn’t top tier garbage so I’m happy.
But yeah balance is absolutely bad, and when they fix something they create for no reason another problem
For the broken strat: before the nerf Defiler would absolutely roll 18D6 for the tank shock stratagem basically guaranteeing 6MW before combat
External balance seems to be relatively okay.
Internally most factions are just bad.
I miss end of 9th edition. Even as an admech player, it wasn’t all that bad for us as it might have seemed
I am like almost 2 years into the hobby, my first hobby love? Yu-gi-oh!
You fucking rule take my subscription
I dont mind some imbalance between different armies, but having units being completely useless or essential (Tau trip-tides vs any of thier auxilliary forces) really puts a damper on building the models you want to play .
You know what? I WILL hit that like and subscribe!
1:33 ok that was hilarious. Any way you have just that clip?
loved the animation
Want 40k balance? Play 3rd edition the rulebook Codexs only... That's balance...
Glad my Admech got it's buff, it was needed
Anyway
Chaos deamons on the other hand...
(WTF WERE THEY THINKING WHO OTHER THAN GRAY KNIGHTS CAN FIGHT THEM WITH THEIR STUPID TELEPORT OH HAR HAR LET'S JUST PUT A GREAT UNCLEAN ONE 6IN FROM ONE OF YOUR IMPORTANT UNITS)
You're my new hero 😂😂😂
Just wanna say, about the 9th edition tyranids codex, the codex was absolutely overpowered, but it was also the worst written piece of TTRPG I've ever laid my eyes upon, it fucks up all of the flavor, nothing makes sense, the army rules were cool but the rest was written in max two week, and that's without taking into account the amount of simple mistakes thay were in it, like forgetting to give the right keywords to units, grammar mistakes and typos. As a tyranid fan it pains me to say that I paid 40+ euros for what was shitty homebrew rules, or an index.
And as a Death Guard fan I feel the same aboug DG in 10th, and I don't trust them to fix it with the codex.
Ghaz used to be able to run around in a trukk, because they didn't say he couldn't be in them
My games group have just been playing older editions like 5th ed because half of our collections are either obsolete, have lost their aesthetic or feel, or just shit.
Damn this sounds rough, at least it doesn't happen in any of GW's good games
It sounds like i should get into OPR instead. :) Not much love for GW.
Wait, why would a model on an oval base interact with the pivot rule? It says "excluding models on round bases, and AIRCRAFT models"; not "circular" or "circle", but "round", and an oval is round.
Please do not summon the legends ghost, i just got a lancer and a moirax, and i REALLY want to keep em. PLEASE
I know, but GW likes to f us over
GW says NO. You are not allowed to have fun
You forgot "a gun" or something in your intro
We're watching the real time collapse of GW and WoTC
At 1st i 👍 for the 40k weebery
Then i saw the neko arc and i subbed
GW intentionally skews the rules to sell kits.
at least for all their crap, GW does work to keep the playing field as level as possible. then theres wizards of the coast who arent even trying and as you showed yugioh....yea the word balance isnt even in that games linguistical library lol
yup quit Yugioh as soon as pendulums came out and then friends in it still told me you can now lose turn one. Glad I quit and sold a bunch of my expensive cards when I did. Got me a lot of Warhammer.
@@Handi_Crafts yep. i was gonna try to play yugioh then i saw how broken it is. bsaically spend 1000 or lose. and got back out of mtg after wotc went full woke stupid.
opting to put all my hobby resources back into 40k and maybe some old world. may not have much resale value, and the places i can play near me, most people are also filthy casuals lol
Get rid of codexes 2025!!!
For the algorithm
Laughs at all of this in One Page Rules 🍸😎
1. all rules should be free on line. full stop. knock that shit out gw it's part of the reason people are LEAVING your hobby.
2. at the same time, CODICES should be released at the end of an edition. with the lore blurbs, artwork, and model dioramas they show off and with being physical. This way they are not only a COLLECTORS ITEM as they feel like. but you wont have a problem of the codex's RULES SIDE becoming absolute a month or two after release because "oops some asshole in a tournment took a college course in Law and word lawyers his ass into dodging the INTENT of a rule an you have to change shit."...hey necrons? Admech? how you feelin rn?
also for my own inclusiong of "heehee haha funny" tactic is what i call the "DWOrks Dakka" strategy.
the setup is simply, you take a 10 man unit of Einhyr Hearthguard, give the Hesyr the Teleport Crest so the unit can Deep Strike, and lastly attach a Kahl.
alright you got your Space Dwarks but where's the dakka from?
1. The Kahl being attached gives the whole unit Lethal Hits. meaning hit rolls of 6 crit and pass the wound roll phase of combat.
2. Hearthguard have 2 ranged weapons at any time. they pick between plasma guns, or volkanite with Dev Wounds. AND THEN get a grenade launcher with Blast and D6 attacks
3. Hearthguard by defaul land shooting on 3's. look at a +1 judged target and that's on 2's.
4. if you want this thought in your head to get even spicier? you can use the stratagem, Ancestral Sentence, for 1cp during your shooting phase to buff their ap per judge token on the select enemy unit.
have fun with that >:D
They need to chill the fuck oit with the balance uodates. This isnt a videogame. Everyone would Rather wait a extra year for them to figure everything out instead of havingna new edition everub4 uears plagued with dozens of errata
Its not so much cheese but for Death Guard; -1 WS/BS contagion, deathshroud terminators lead by a terminator sorcerer. -1 to wound rolls against them if str greater than 6, and -1 to damage taken in fight phase. Its just a nearly impossible to remove blender.
Add nurglings to push is further
>laughs in imperial guard platoons
How about you get a balanced wheelchair
People complain about the balance with complete disregard for the game history, there were editions with some incredibly unfair broken shit that lasted FOR YEARS.
Sure, erratas are annoying but you know what is even worse?... Not having them
StarCraft had always had balance issues with only 3 factions, 40k has 26, it's a miracle that most are in the goldilocks zone of 45~55%
There will always be a stronger pick than others and it can be annoying sure, but we must reserve shit talking devs for when it's actually unfun broken shit that makes the game unplayable for months/years. Not because your pet army has a slightly rougher time winning than most
C'mon
You're right, 45-55% is actually pretty decent considering what Warhammer is.
Personally I think the more frustrating thing is the mess caused by paid physical rules, and the way some factions spend so long playing diet 40K while they wait for the rest of their rules to release.
@@dustrockblues7567 agree, paid walled rules is the biggest issue with the game, and every faction should have a minimum of 3 detachments in the index at the beginning of each new edition, (or stop making new editions altogether), and instead of a new codex cycle they could do shorter seasonal mission packs, because adding more mechanics doesn't end well
That way they can only focus on the terrain/missions and not in the minutiae of unit balance, and more casual players can opt out of a season and come back later and only having to learn the new missions rules and not a fuckton of detachments and so on
For reference a card game can change meta around every 3 months, it has been a whole year between Leviathan and Nexus Pariah
Idk I am not an expert, but that seems logical
nice video, guy.
i love your editing style. Legends pisses me off too, except the things that got legends-ed for Orks were all Forgeworld so its more understandable, but cmon man you cant release a Dread Mob AND a Speed Freeks and then get rid of so many units that would then benefit from those, especially the Grot Tanks, warboss on warbike and Mega/Meka dreads