Paul Mason - The British Left and the Struggle Between Open Society and Aggressive Authoritarianism.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
- Putin undoubtedly feared an independent, democratic, and affluent Ukraine on his doorstep, which is compelling reason why he started the war. Rather than a struggle caused by geopolitics, the Ukraine war can, with some justification, be viewed as a fight between the idea of an open society and authoritarianism. Freedom versus tyranny. For Ukrainian freedom and life are synonymous, which helps explain their extraordinary will to resist occupation. For Russians, liberty does not seem to be high up on their list of priorities, favouring perceived ‘stability’ over the ‘chaos’ of freedom. Ukraine -is a nation emerging from the amnesia of history and from under the yoke of centuries of imperial domination and is taking its place as a pivotal territory within European history and politics.
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Paul Mason is a British commentator and radio personality. He was Culture and Digital Editor of Channel 4 News, becoming the programme's Economics Editor in 2014, a post he formerly held at BBC Two's Newsnight programme. He is the author of several books, and a visiting professor at the University of Wolverhampton. He has won many awards over his long writing and journalistic career, and most recently in 2018, Paul received the Ellen Meiksins Wood Prize for his work on post-capitalism. In 2020, he was awarded the Erich Fromm Prize, in recognition of his work on the revival of humanist Marxism.
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Live Working or Die Fighting: How the Working Class Went Global. (2007)
Meltdown: The End of the Age of Greed. (2009)
Why It's Kicking Off Everywhere: The New Global Revolutions. (2012)
Rare Earth (2012)
PostCapitalism: A Guide to our Future. (2015)
Clear Bright Future: A Radical Defence of the Human Being. (2019)
How To Stop Fascism: History, Ideology, Resistance. (2021)
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Another great discussion, Jonathan. Congratulations on your continued excellence of guests and hard work on this channel. The quality just shines through with this content. Highly, highly recommended.
👍👍👍 much appreciated!
Interesting interview, thank you! I really appreciate listening to a wide spectrum of viewpoints and I think it's really important to understand different political perspectives on human values and visions of the future. After all, we all move into the future together - leftists, conservatives, liberals, libertarians - or we don't move at all.
👍 we have to find common ground, even with people we vehemently disagree with… or else our political institutions will not survive…
@@SiliconCurtain Exactly. One gift of the ukrainian resistance are the little cracks in the political silos.
I've seen it happen so many times now - people start talking, agreeing and cooperating around Ukraine, assuming that the other person shares their political views (since "the other side" can never be right and are all bad people who want to oppress you) - only to be surprised.
No, we will not agree on most things, but we must be able to see that we actually do agree on some things. Those things are extremely important, and the only way to find out what they are is to try to listen, in good faith, to understand the other people who actually share our space and fate, here and now, in our actual communities.
Correct. This is a philosophical struggle as well as a territorial one. I read Popper, Arendt and Revel YEARS ago, and I recognize the signs. So yes, an education in philosophy is never wasted, and a philosophy is worth dying for. Glory to Ukraine!
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At this point Russia proves Hanna Arent’s therom in Banality of Evil the people of Russia the entire its not the entire every man’s reality of Russia that is evil, but it is a never questioning and simply going on with a cult of personality that is dictatorship, and fascism it is that piled and piled and piled up on each themselves that lead them to the evils of the Ukrainian genocide and a perception that they are alone in life from trusting anyone other then their baser instinct Is that not Evil by the omission of reaching out to their Russian countrymen in place of colaberating with their captors in power.
The only way out is that Russia must go through what Germany and Japan went through in 1945 and afterward: comprehensive defeat, re-education and reconstruction as democratic, peaceful states (Muscovy being just one). I'm so glad that Paul has identified the Russian culture and not just Putin as the problem. This is a very difficult challenge indeed, just as WWII was. Great kudos to Paul for supporting Ukraine in the Labour Party.
[Many people prefer] "... perceived stability over the chaos of freedom...". I believe that, Mr. Fink, is the crux of the matter. 🙂
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It’s what emerged from hundreds of conversations with Russians I had in the 90s. Alas, 30 years on, little has changed there, and yet Ukraine is utterly transformed over the same period…
I remember being a wee 20 year old and watching Paul's coverage of the Greek financial crisis on Channel 4, and being blown away that some weird economic catastrophe was being explained in a fairly thorough and detailed way that made sense to me, as someone who had the absolute barest of knowledge when it came to economics. Leaps and bounds ahead of the others in his field in that regard. I watch this interview now, with a more sophisticated understanding of the world than back then, and find him echoing pretty much everything I've felt since the war began. Putin must fail. And those on the left who would grant him lenience are not "comrades", and care not for democracy. Democracy comes first. Political leanings second. In a world without the former you do not get the luxury of the latter.
The invasion was Putin's way of throwing down the gauntlet and saying, to the west, if you believe in your democracy, fight for it. In his eyes every society is as corrupt as Russia, they just pretend to themselves they're not. To give in diplomatically like in 2014 would have been the first domino in an inevitable chain leading to the death of everything we in the liberal west hold dear. The fact that the Ukrainian resistance was so absolute in those first weeks was probably the best thing that could have happened for us. It gave western leaders an excuse to commit to supporting Ukraine. So I will forever be thankful to the millions of Ukrainians in those first days who were bottling up molotovs and swearing to defend their homes against what looked like impossible odds. We will look back in a decade or so reflecting on how they, in that moment, changed history for all of us. Ukrainians made *us* believe in our own system again, if at least for a short while.
Most profound true comment I read today:
Democracy comes first. Political leanings second!
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You didn't see that Mason has been exposed as an agent working for British intelligence?
I don't always agree with Paul Mason, but it was a very interesting discussion. I do however, respect his stance on Ukraine. I would have liked to hear him address more directly the way in which elements of the far left are still citing NATO expansionism as the main cause of this war.
To align with Russia is to make criminality a core function of any power structure organized around it. Of interest is the sphere of influence as a goal, and with the interest there are multiple factions believing their model is the preferred. For example, Russia has aligned with China and both see the world through the WeChat digital life but I do not see how Russia's gangster kleptocracy and the pseudo-communist capitalism (whatever that means) don't become conflicted. Xi has an issue with party leadership, the regional governors and party apparatchiks, keeping this group aligned is a task rife with risk. India combines with this structural alignment in a sort of leverage, playing in the middle of the two. Western society is grappling with the diminution of various democratic republics with actors within attempting to push another alignment. But, there is a strange historic movement which is an undercurrent observant of the U.S. south during the 1840's, and this faction sees the clock set to about the Middle Ages, pre Magna Carta.
What aligns all this competing interests are individuals and small groups of highly capitalized and recipients of a large portion of the wealth generated from productivity and pressure put on the working class and poor. The individual governments act as agents for the hidden hand, whatever hypothesis is driving political and governmental management. We, the plebs, are not privy to the exact nature of the upper level alignment, a place with about 0.00005% of world's population have their hands on the wheel.
Possibly the most important aspect of this multipolar shakeout is that most of the struggles are executing through corrupt sociological narratives and largely false sense of history each of the nation states are exhibiting. This has much in the way in implications, the sharp edges of these organizing bodies as nation states will create a number of ruptures and turbulence through the populations. It is the upper-level misguided sense of clarity of thought, elevated prowess, combined with a righteousness resembling clinical psychosis helmed by psychopaths portending nothing good will come. Global, the adults have gone missing. If this struggle were shown in the light, it would be laughable at how irrational and intellectual corrupt, no one would buy it. That of course making a popular movement impossible, undergirded with nothing of substance for wide support and leaving the masses to undulate in and out of violent reprisals.
What do you think Hungary’s problem is, being both pro Russian and a member of NATO. I don’t understand how that works.
Yeah me either.
It’s like being offered the “red & blue pill” and choosing to take both.
It just doesn’t work
Clearly it does not work… and we should perhaps suspend their membership…
I remember a commentator from a certain UK based more conservative leaning podcast, which I cant name or I fear my comment gets deleted, once said:
Fascism is Authoritarianism with a veil of conservatism and Socialism (or any of those Marxism-offsprings) is also Authoritarianism with a veil of progressivism.
In other words, both are authoritarian, they just have different routes. And I would agree.
My mother fled from Vietnam after the Communists took over. They promised equality and all that nice sounding stuff. And the moment they were in power, they took everything away from my mother's family and put them in re-education camps, ....
They labelled anything that was useful to their government as "patriotic"....
She was no longer allowed to play songs from Brahms or Beethoven, instead she had to play some Vietnamese communist music that was deemed "patriotic"....
So I believe, once either of those authorities reaches the top, they will use any and all tools to cements their power, even if it means it looks like it betrays their original intentions. But in truth it never betrayed their true intentions. Whether they were advocating for progressive or conservative ideas, doesnt matter in the end to them.
Libertarian socialism is a thing.
Anti-Jewish attitudes are a good indicator that someone is on the authoritarian left rather than the humanitarian left. Ex: if someone is saying Israel shouldn’t exist rather than criticizing specific policies of the current right wing administration…you have yourself an authoritarian
That sounds about right..
It doesn't have to be as much as criticising Israel. The regularity with which George Soros crops up as a hate figure in certain quarters is another good indication, as is the regular labelling of Zelensky's Jewish ancestry being equated to Zionism.
@@dragonade85 The Soros thing seems to be mostly the authoritarian right here in the US. It’s funny to me, because I’ll watch other leftists criticize the right for that (rightly so), while being wildly judeophobic themselves. I would also add, the deliberate perversion of the word “Zionism” itself. The word literally just means “the right of Jews to self determination in their homeland”. Yet, the authoritarian left has turned it into a slur…and this largely stems from soviet antisemitic propaganda that the USSR disseminated once they realized that the state of Israel was not going to become a soviet.
Israel _is_ an authoritarian entity (as all nation-states are, to be fair, though Israel exemplifies many of the worst authoritarian tendencies of nation-states pretty damned well).
Brilliant stuff from Paul Mason - as ever! Human solidarity across nations, and Slava Ukraini!
I warn against the attraction to aithoritarianism for an answer to bringing structure to a society we don't understand and see as unfair.
Those of us who see the status quo as unfair do so precisely _because_ we understand it. Moreover, far from seeing authoritarianism as an answer, authoritarianism is precisely what some of us _despise the most_ about the _existing_ social order.
In Britain most of the left and the right support Ukraine. Thanks for that. In Germany it’s quite different.
A rather simplistic generalisation.
100% agree Paul. Thankyou for your views. Big respect as always Jonathan 🙇♀️👍👍 Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦
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@@SiliconCurtain Open Society and Aggressive Authoritarianism
thats ur title? lol
i suppose ukraine is open to nazi, and russia is aggressive after nato breaks its promise not to expand and finally reaches russia's doorstep after decades of enlargement. lol
Timothy Snyder defined "freedom" as the fundamental value, since it enables us to choose and prioritize which of our other values we want to live by, even when they are paradoxical. Since Russia attacked Ukraine, their defense of freedom has shown us how many other values we share.
I've seen right wing conservatives stunned that a professional soldier volunteering in Ukraine is a socialist (or even more head-spinning - a trans woman!) because they assumed that "duty", "sacrifice" and "courage" are values that belongs to the right, not to humanity.
Or leftists realizing that the person helping them pack aid for Ukraine is a right wing conservative - who also volunteers giving legal aid to refugees. Because they assumed "solidarity", "fairness" and "justice" are values that belongs only to the left, not to humanity.
We will never be able to thank Ukrainians enough. Never.
It's interesting that Paul echoed what some right of centre people have said in that we need to get back to the core of western enlightenment values.
Ironically there was probably more general agreement between left and right in the 60s and 70s then there are today and both were based on liberal enlightenment values
Not really impressed, lorry driver dad, miners gala, Margaret Thatcher responsible for all the trouble in the world. I'm from the North East and remember Margaret Thatcher walking on a huge derelict site in Thornaby and predicting what could be. The site now has beautiful homes, Durham University campus and lots of businesses. A transformation. I tried but I couldn't listen to him, sorry
You tried, and I appreciate that!
On the one hand, I'm a Paul Mason fan... on the other, I'm not a socialist. Well Done..
Neither is Paul!
Paul, you know what you're talking about. I'm Polish, we watched in horror what the free market looting was doing to the Polish economy after 1990. The crazy privatization lead to the victory of conservative nationalists. And now EU is annoyed...
A Left metaproject (consisting of not just what we are against) of being *for humanism,* is what we need!
I’ve noticed the same trend - a negative project overtaking the traditionally humanistic, positive metaproject motivating professionals joining career fields in the first place - sucking the humanity, the fun, out of humanistic projects.
Too bad the audio was poor quality. I will be looking up this guest and his left humanism!
It's about human rights. Totalitarian states don't believe humans have rights.
That’s why zelensky has banned opposition party’s and taken control of the media. I don’t know how you’d describe totalitarianism, but Ukraine comes close.
Good video. Thank you.
What are Russians doing about travel now for vacation? Is foreign travel still an option or are domestic vacations now the alternative and have the prices of domestic vacations increased? Wheres popular to visit now (aside from Sochi).
Thank you.
The cost in real terms is definitely greater. Russians tended to vacation in Turkey in vast numbers. Maybe that has not changed?
Who cares
They are not very numerous in Egypt (far outnumbered by Poles, I think).
Political alignments seem to be more the perimeter of a circle than a number line. The farther one goes left or right, the closer to having the same views. It's very strange.
A great opening intro by Paul. The reference to Red-Brown politics was something that I was intrigued with in the Ukraine war. The support for Putin coming from an unholy alliance of the far right (Tucker Carlson etc) and traditional far left (Seymour Hersch etc)
I really liked Paul when he was with Channel 4 but went off him when he started his political campaigning, how this interview has changed my mind again. Then again he comes from Leigh, near Manchester, so he can't be all bad😊
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@@SiliconCurtain Great interview Jonathan. I must admit that I do cherry pick your videos but I would like to express my gratitude and admiration for the work that you do
With the best will in the world, this is chaotic. There’s a pipeline between libertarianism and authoritarianism, apparently, who knew.
Yep, I've friends who are on the left - I'm on the right - who are in complete agreement with me regarding how important it is that the UK and others give Ukraine as much support as possible. It's simply a democratic imperative. 👍 (Paul should be made aware that Carmarthenshire is a far better place to holiday than Pembs, just saying)
😂 I’ll bear that in mind, when booking my next holiday!
This conversation is much needed and welcome. Agreed that one side of the left is headed very much in the wrong direction. Guess we need some new words for the nuance.
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Caught this late - what a great talk! I loved the reference to fire and ice forging steel... and the new Ukrainian. 🙏
Really good, thanks for these interesting interviews..
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Really interesting interview -much to mull over
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Great video!
Just checked - Paul Mason's books are available 2nd hand in the EU, including his latest. Thanks for the titles.
There was nothing "leftish" about The Soviet Union. The left-right scale is about the economic balance between factory owners and factory workers or land owners and farm workers. The left-right scale isn't applicable to other political disputes.
Authoritarianism vs. democracy is a different debate. There are people who wants to be dictators. The societies they create are typically focused on enriching the emperor and sycophants, not kapitalists or workers.
Kommunism was an ideology which was hijacked by authoritarians and used as an excuse for totalitarianism.
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Is that what modern day "champagne socialists" are thinking?
Thank you Jonathan! Incredible work you are doing. Respect from Ireland.
👍 great to know I have support from Ireland- my grandmother was a Donegal lass…
Awful sound quality. Poor signal in Pembrokeshire?
I just tuned out to this very quickly .. lots of words said (classic verbal diarrhoea) but nothing at all I heard was compelling .. nothing… I’m scratching this guy off my reads
In fairness it is hard to ad lib in an interview rather than read off a well-rehearsed script.
Why not instead listen to more of these podcasts, given the range of experience it offers us?
The fact that the presenter knows Russia very well is also valuable and clear from his insights. Think again, Mr Pragmatist and be pragmatic. In my opinion, it is worth the effort and I for one will persevere. And finally, I think Paul Mason was trying to compress too much into his observations abd maybe that is where he might have given you the impression if "classic verbal diarrhea". I don't agree. Many of his points needed more unpacking than he realized.
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Thank you both for this very edifying discussion. Was a real treat after a hard day :)
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Interesting! Some great perspectives there by Paul.
Fantastic interview.
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Me, being confused why my favorite Aussie MD has branched out from the keto world into politics. 😊
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Excellent interview (again) Johnathan! Can you interview Paul again to get his view on the changes the West has to go through and the challenges it faces.
A clarification of 'critical Marxist' would also be welcome.
Paul " agent 47 " Mason
You get a thumbs up just on the title.
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Very interesting and really educated
I admire Paul Mason's insights and he makes some good points and analysis and need to read his books sometime. I particularly like how he factors in the power of tech corporation. Often I find antifascist analysis rather analogue. He is definitely on the better side of the left in quality and solidarity with Ukraine. I come across many detailed, historical and specific links to how Russia supports the far-right, who they are, which individuals etc. I am looking for similar detailed analysis on what parts of the far left are too. Any sources besides Paul Mason on this, any books which detail just who and how on the far left? Perhaps I am wrong but I would hazard a guess its those parts of the far left which have been infiltrated into by various far right, for eg, certain ecology circles being taken in by national anarchists, or various strange blends such as National Bolsheviks, Order of Nine Angles said to have admiration for both Hitler and Stalin due to admiration of bloody tyranny. But just who, and how and when in details? Great channel, will be diving in more and learning, thanks. ❤🙏
Spot on
Great content
Nocked my expectations OUT OF THE PARCK!!!!
I may have to listen to this one a second time 😂.
Jonathan, you spoil us. Thank you, sir. 👏
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for the stats 👍
Thanks so much for interviewing Paul. He’s an inspirational speaker and a great level headed representative of the left.
I have to say that sometimes after the hours of being referred by any number of things by people who claim to be on the left because I try to take a reasoned view on politics I often feel ashamed to refer to myself as a ‘socialist’ or a ‘Marxist’. But whenever I hear Paul speak on social, economic and political issues he reminds me to be proud of my politics and remember why we work to improve people’s lives and conditions. Thanks a bunch lad!
Slava Ukraini!
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Don't take those leftist views to Україна! There will not be a warm welcome for you from a people who all know someone who gave their life to escape Socialism! Thanks for your support for Ukraine but take a lesson from them as well will you? Слава Україні!!!
I think you misunderstand the nature of the democratic socialist movement and authoritarian communism. They are two very different things.
One aims to empower individual working people in society by providing better living and working conditions for all through democratic means, the other seeks to force everyone to be the same so as society can reach a utopian state.
We are not the same thing.
@@Whatshisname346 Paul doesn't dare to go there, but the identitarian "woke left" very much belongs to your second category...
@@awuma ‘woke left’ is a myth to distract people from the fact that the right have no policies to tackle the economic and social ills of modern capitalism. Calling someone out for being an arsehole is only considered authoritarian by rightwing snowflakes. Everyone else can take their bollocking like a grown up and admit their mistakes.
If you actually look at it, rightwing ‘woke’ mythology is nothing more than a hodge podge of people you’re supposed to hate this week. Ask anyone to write down what ‘woke’ means and they end up explaining what it’s like to be told by someone to have some basic manners. It’s nonsense.
Ukraine will need corporations that are on the up and up. I think that if their new economic corporate outlook resembles Ben and Jerry's, they will get away from greedy, self-serving mega corporations. As a matter of fact, the US should help evolve community friendly corporations, too.
Are you in your bathrobe ?
Brilliant 😊🙏🇺🇦
Definitely 🙀
Awesome 😎
Excellent interview, go Wolves;)
I'm on the left, I passionately support Ukraine. What Paul is saying here is absolutely bang on the money.
I’m on the right. I want to see Ukraine delivered from the criminal enterprise in The Kremlin as much as you. I guess we are all LGBQT imperialist Jew capitalist Naaarzees together. ( I, of course, am USED to being a racist, and an imperialist, and a sexist, and a phobe, and a bigot , and a moron, and a naaarzee, because the Gaurdian and the NYT and CNN have been telling me that is what I am all my life.) Water off a duck’s back, being the object of this infantile slander, from that creature in Moscow….I am used to it. My question, Neil, is how does it feel to YOU? This novel experience of being labelled an “ist” with whom no civil discourse is either possible or desirable? Does it ( I wonder) make you curious as to what people on the right might REALLY believe?
You really need to guide your objects on sound and microphones, in the end nobody wants to voluntary listen to garbled sounds.
Unfortunately he was in a remote location and the sound quality is very poor, for which I apologise.
This has been a problem for 5000 years, it never ends.
Victory to Ukraine 🇺🇦 🙌 💪
Actually I am praying he wins
Am accustomed to enjoying more interesting interviewees on this channel.
I’ll keep them coming - hopefully you’ll like the next one!
We want liberalism and democracy instead of authoritarianism.
We also want a market economy where everyone can participate and offer goods and services to prices based on demand.
However when the dominating mechanism for earning money is owning money, wealth rapidly moves to the very few who already have money at an exponential rate, just like when playing Monopoly. It is inherently unstable. In the beginning of the game not much happen, towards the end the winner doubles his wealth for every round and in just a few rounds, everyone else is bankrupt. This is not a reasonable way to run an economy.
I like this analogy 🤔✊🏻
That was the whole point of Monopoly as a game - to show the illogic of capitalism.
Great insight on Russian war against Ukraine. SLAVA UKRAINI 🇺🇦🔱💪🏾
First of all, I warm to any signs of Labour revival and am curious to read Paul Mason's books.
I think he introduced so many leading ideas that warranted more development than was possible.
I personally would consider postmodern and even poststructuralist thinking a waning phenomenon, even though there are still those who continue to teach these ontologies that pretend they are not such.
And anway, there is nothing wrong with ontologies, if they translate into values worth living for, principles we hold sacred, surely. My flippant point above was to note that postmodernism could not avoid its own ontology, because that is philosophically speaking, impossible. Even if we call it or name it a negative ontology, akin to negative theology.
More importantly, what I learned here was to consider the aftermath of Ukrainian victory.
Now, while some journalists typically ask what a Ukrainian victory would look like (regaining all occupied territory, including Crimea or reaching a compromise, suggested as inevitable by those asking the question), Mason invites us to think about what options lie ahead for society in Ukraine after achieving full autonomy from its neighbour. Good point!
And yes, Neo-liberalist capitalism is one way forward, but proved its failure in the 2008 Wall Street Crash Mark 2.
in the West, many have since come around to the view, even expressed openly in mainstream media, that a better option would be a society more attuned to social justice.
And yes, I can see that with post-victory total autonomy from Russia, Ukraine's natural resources, oil, gas, steel, coal, nuclear energy would be desireable assets for an oligarchical society, ready to re-establish its financial hold, and that such an economic structure would be permeable to external exploitation, as well as internal exploitation and corruption. That is a real risk, and I am grateful to Paul Mason for drawing my attention to that.
I agree that the survival and strengthening of the best form of trade unionism would be a good thing after victory and thinking about these issues and making them part of current debate also desireable. Today, you can still be a member of the working class even if you don't work in a factory. And pressure and calls for unionization perhaps show that.
Very interesting.
I do think that drawing equivalence between a democratic "state" and an authoritarian "state" is a mistake.
Intervention and surveillance in a country overseen by a changing roster of elected politicians drawn from different demographics is very different to the same thing in a country run by an unelected, corrupt, unrepresentative elite.
As the leaks in America have shown the limiting of the surveillance ability of the NSA has caused a big problem that could have cost Ukrainian lives.
Democracy not privacy is the key to a decent society.
Yes. In a democratic state, the "state" is just "us", it's our shared responsibility and our vehicle of self-rule, the way we organize our shared resources. In an authoritaritan state, the state is the vehicle of oppression, the instrument our rulers use to limit responsibility, participation and access to resources. Which is why it annoys me when people talk about "the State" as being this or that. Are we talking about the Swedish state or the North Korean state? Not really the same animal.
My goodness. That miner getting out his gun.
They must have been bad to him and his friends. Hope he comes out OK.
I agree with the slow trickle of good weaponry being a silly idea. The only thing against delivering all the best weapons immediately would be lack of ability to use them, but the best weapons are made so that you don't need to be brilliant to use them well.
A very interesting conversation indeed!. Thank you Jonathan and Paul. As the conversation unfolded, I began to suspect that Paul was a Marxist at heart; and then finally at 45:32 he admitted he is a "critical Marxist". And I now also see that you call out his "work on the revival of humanist Marxism". With my knowing little to nothing about the Labor Party in Britain, and it's history, I'm guessing now that perhaps Marxism is a part of that too. And so Paul is seeking to help influence and underpin that ideology in Ukraine. Of course Marxism is an attractive ideology and many of it's tenets are very helpful in the fight for basic human rights in the sea of human greed and extortion, not only in Corporatism / Capitalism but everywhere else you can think to look as well. And this will never change, never go away that is; that fight will always be there. And I see why Paul brings up the threat of the ubiquitous algorithm early on in the conversation; if you want to be "connected", you will never be the same again. It reminds me of some of the words in the Eagles' song "Welcome to the Hotel California"....the melody..."welcome to the Hotel California...there's plenty of room at the Hotel California.....you can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave". LOL It's true on a basic level, but it will never be an axiom. True human freedom exists, but it is not found in Marxism. So, there are some tenets of Marxism with which I fundamentally disagree. I.E. the immutable value of human life: you can't say you truly value human life and not provide some protection for the human baby inside the womb. It jumped out to me that in the same breath Paul contradicted himself, referencing "the attack on Roe vs. Wade" in the US. I don't want to argue about this. It would be senseless for two old dogs to fight over this bone and tear each other up in the process. But fight over it I surely would, just like the Ukrainians are fighting for their way of life, and rejecting the nihilism of the Russian worldview. Rejecting the value of life in the womb, as he appears to do, is another form of nihilism. Finding common ground with people you fundamentally disagree with, as a way "forward" in life, always requires good faith and consistently good outcomes, or it falls apart. Sadly, this has been the way of Marxism, and every other ism in the the history of man The most important things in life, to different people, will always be different things. When there is a good outcome - we have have not arrived there yet in Ukraine, the reasons are usually to be found on a deeper level than human ideologies like Marxism, Authoritarianism, Corporatism, Capitalism, Communism, etc. etc. etc. And I agree, some form of working together is always in the mix.
I would say traditional Marxism is a fringe of the Labour Party - and the pro Ukraine, humanist Marxism is an even smaller subset of that! But I think there is some interesting ideas and critiques of the left, of corporations and monopolistic practices… which actually align with the libertarian right. So I like to listen to Paul with an open mind, as you have done, even though I am neither a Marxist nor really a traditional socialist.
I'm a big fan of the channel by I won't even watch this I'm afraid; I despise Paul Mason that much, sorry. I look forward to the next one.
No problem! Not every interview will be every cup of tea. I also admit I am still none the wiser why some on the hard left do not condemn Putin and his mafia thugs…
@@SiliconCurtain And are you not a bit curious that Paul slams the American so-called "far right" and is very very quiet about the American left or if you like "far left"?
@@SiliconCurtain to be fair to Paul, you didn't pursue him very hard for an answer to that particular question. You could have asked him for example about Corbyn's mealy-mouthedness at the time of the Skrypal affair and it would have been interesting to compare Corbyn and co. with attitudes among the kaleidoscopic hard left in France (Mélenchon plus their plethora of differently flavoured communists), Die Linke in Germany with their old Ossi mentality, and no doubt there are intersting things to say about the left in Scandinavia, Greece, Italy (what remains there of the left, anyway) and Spain (Socialists versus Podemos?). There's a woman in Die Linke called Sarah Wagenknecht (if I remember her name correctly) who has been leading those people on Stop the War demos.
Then again of course, it's also the moderate left in Germany who have allowed themselves to be infected by dodgy Russian influences. I personally don't really think that Scholz is "clean", because the instituational grip on the SPD of that gas money goes back twenty years to good old Herr Schröder. Also it would have been good, speaking of money, to ask Paul about whether it's possible to know how much direct material/financial support these Tankies are getting from Russia, as compared to the far right.
Anyway, I always love these interviews. This one was interesting, but just failed to get to the heart of that particular question. No worries - next time!
@Tess Gess Hi, OK. You can read this as ad hominem if you wish, but this is my opinion of him. In short, I think he's a very eccentric and, in my view, dangerous man whose woven his way through most main stream British media outlets for decades. His main public persona has been that of a balanced objective ‘journalist’, trustworthy and reasoned in his reporting; but he’s not, he’s a hard left activist with some often quite crack pot views. He was a gleeful supporter of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonald, of the most dangerous lunatics that have ever got near to No.10. See: 'Double Down News; Another World is Possible with Jeremy Corbyn | Paul Mason'. Check out who else frequents on 'Double Down News'. Personally, I think Mason’s got a screw loose and I wouldn't trust his motives for saying anything.
As long as you have a rose tinted view of English politics it will help you ignore just how corrupt and isolated your present government is. Swimming as they do in a sea of money while the majority of the country suffers. This alone should make Ukraine suspicious of foreign investment and be very careful who would extort a profit out of them.
I don’t have many illusions about the current government- their incompetence, nepotism and corruption. They may be doing the right thing by supporting Ukraine, but in all other matters, the economy included, they are the most hopeless and talentless shower I have ever seen in this country…
Who has been “extorting” Ukraine for the last 500 years? 👀🤷🏻♂️
@@SiliconCurtain I think talentless is being way too kind. To call them grossly incomptent would be too kind. I really don't have words to describe what I think of the UK government today.
This myth of a 'free society versus an evil tyranny' is not true where Ukr is concerned. There are many peaceful kingdoms, sultanates, emirates etc *which do not invade their neighbours*. Western democracy became degenerate, feckless, and weak [esp. USA/Germany] - this invited aggression from a predator state which saw the west falling apart [afgh. withdrawl + Jan 6th]. The time to arm Ukraine was when the RF shot down the Malaysian airliner Flight 17 over E. Ukraine in July 2014 in which 298 were murdered. If the west can turn a blind eye to mass-murder like this, do not be a surprised that the predator state saw this as a green light to further adventures. The fairytale of 'freedom v. tyranny' will be comforting to silicon curtain viewers but the reality is more to do with the failure of 'human rights' and 'democracy' bullshit which failed to stop a war now killing hundreds of thousands. Yet the bullshitters continue to blame the predator state for being predatory ! They got it wrong for 10 years and they are still getting it wrong now - perpetuating myths about evil tyrannies - when it is degenerate and weak democratic states which are encouraging revanchism in E.Europe and SCS.
The best time to arm Ukraine was in 1999 😊
But the west was too busy focusing on their pockets and how much they could profit by doing business with the very country they now have to stand up against.
kings and sultans are not “peaceful”, they create order through concentration of power and subjugation of citizenry. Democracy may be imperfect, but it is a practice of diffusing power amongst wider and wider groups of people, which has demonstrably led to more respect for human rights within such societies. The OPs comment is a really good example of the tankie bullsht ideology.
If you watch all the videos, you’ll see some of these ideas expressed! We have let Putin trample our ‘red lines’ for years, and traded our values for I’ll-gotten treasure. I expected a huge response to Georgian invasion, MH17 and Crimea. It none came and Putin saw only green lights ahead to expand his imperial ambitions. Watch the ‘Londongrad’ episodes and Ed Lucas - and thus ‘nuance’ will be fully apparent!
@@SiliconCurtain I watch most of them + I support you on Patreon. Londongrad is great. But this deception of western journalists, reporters and editors over the last 20 years. Do they still not understand their failure? to not see what was right in front of them - seeing only what they wanted to see. None of them asking "how did we get it so wrong for all these years". The lack of self-criticism, continued arrogance and zero contrition continues. Those poor people on MH17 - Who remembers them? Where is the media memorial for them? - the fact that your brother, your sister, your dad was on a plane 30minutes behind MH17 or 20 minutes ahead of it - never seems to occur to these media people. Am I missing something here ? Anyway - keep up the good work- I will also listen to the Paul mason interview - like Paul, I try to see things as George Orwell would have seen them on the Road to Wigan Pier - it is a good rule of thumb and helps keep your feet on the ground. And may God help the Ukrainians.
We know he’s on the left. He worked for the BBC on current affairs.
He was far too left for the BBC! And far too anti establishment…
And was doubling up part-time for MI5. Busy guy.
Puppet clowns will say anything