Nio ES8 battery swap at Vestby, Norway
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2022
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Really nice technique, looking forward to winter testing!
Yep, just wondering what snow, ice and slush will do to this process.
@@kylisirn should be fine as well, they deploy this in northern China which is much colder then Europe. but we need prove anyway.
Five minutes maybe not as fast as refuelling, but still much faster than charging. I think this method form Nio will be suitable for Thailand's drivers (and passengers) that they can't wait for charging.
NIO could do it even quicker, but given the fact that charging 13 batteries also needs time, so they decided to set an average 5-6 mins per swap for now. I reckon when the Gen 3 station with 20 batteries comes out, NIO will reduce the swaping time to 3-4mins to serve increasing demand.
@@robbenlin4066 You reckon, not know?
If nio had dedicated parking spots next to the swapstations, i could see the autonomous driving doing everything while the driver is out, a private company with private parking spots and a fleet of nios would b cool to see:)
I was thinking the same. Just park your car and pick it up later.
Feels like that would waste all of the purpose of battery change. Why don't just charge as normal then?
Well designed screws aren't really a wear point, the hydraulic and electrical connections to the battery are going to wear out first - though I'm sure its designed to last as long as the service is available.
..and presumably wouldn't cost a small fortune to have replaced. A pretty reasonable condition if indeed it lasts a decade or more for example. Not to mention I imagine swapping wouldn't always one's default means of charging, just an option in case you really gotta go.
remember some forkliftbatteries are way heavyer and powerfull than some EV batteries... and sometimes the forkliftbatteries will be changed 3 times in 24h ... and there are no major problems with the connections between batterie and the forklift ... I have 33j expercience with electrical forklifts ... its no dark sience ... we are already working with wireless steering from 1994 ... self driving forklifts about more than 15 years ... its not all new what Telsa and other EV are presenting now ... its just unnow to the most people, thats all ... greetiings from Belgium (hot, hot, ... +35°C today) ...
@@Vayshen uno customer in china has done around 1500 swaps in 3 years ( probably someone doing "uber" work and maybe 2 guys using same car in 2 daily shifts)
Also in china a large % of owners has NEVER charged and only swapped.
@@marcphilibert2344 forklifst does not operate in snow, salt, ice dust conditions and don't have a water cooled overengineered underfloor battery. The RC of my children works pretty well with underfloor batteries. So nio will do ...
Will still be funn to see that system work in ghe winter with snow and Ice and all the Salt on ghw roads in Norway. Norway uses alot of Salt on the roads. And will bee cool to see the automatic system works 100% in the winter with all the snow, Salts ans dirt.
Thanks Bjorn, it will certainly appeal to some.
Hot tip: You can program the bottom left button on the right side of the steering wheel to open the 360 cam.
I would love to have that! How do you program the bottom-left button? Could not find any info about this.
@@torgrims It is in the car setup. You can choose the program.
@@peterhuang3376 Thanks Peter, but where do I find "Car setup" in the menu?
@@torgrims Home Screen -> the car bottom on left bottom then you are in the car configuration and setting page. Go through that and you may find a place to set up your multifunction button on the steering wheel….. you may choose 360 camera, auto parking, or front camer recording
Cant wait for you to repeat the test in snow and bad weather with the bottom of the car being a complete mess dirty and schmutz etc. Good luck for the sensors to unfreeze the screws, or find them at all.
That test has already been done th-cam.com/video/a2A_YrTg2II/w-d-xo.html
There is a video on TH-cam of this swap being done in the winter… I can’t remember the name of the channel but it was done by a Nio owner in China in a early-gen swap station
Here it is the video in question th-cam.com/video/a2A_YrTg2II/w-d-xo.html
I heard somewhere there will be a integrated underbody car wash but I don’t know if it’s true.
@@fabulousprofound details.. ;-) but still, i will be very impressed if they would pull off a seemless replace even if the screws are slightly worn, dirty or frozen up at all, especially from an electronics engineer point of view. Still not convinced at the technology though, as in way too expensive, probably in several millions a station, for maybe 10 to 15 minutes of time difference compared to a 100k cost DC fastcharger. (now, and probably less in the near future)
The equilivant charging power is 1100kw for swap station, 5 mins for 90kwh, without any drop of charging power. It is way super than any charging stations.
Well except most people charge or get petrol when they also want to pop into the shop or go to the toilet anyway. On a charger you can do this while charging. I think there is a limited use case for these but I may be proven wrong again.
@@g0balot that could actually be like with a combustion engine, you change the battery and then you're back in the service area, above all you have to drive the car out of the swap station and look for a parking space. you probably also need significantly more batteries than vehicles at these stations for buffering. But it would also have an advantage that you could store renewable energy there.
@@raphi25895 Yes, very much like with a combustion engine so I think you might be saving five or ten minutes with these things. No harm in having them but seems a waste of effort to me.
@D R Have you ever done it? I have done it many, many times and only charge longer than twenty minutes if I have lunch or do some shopping at the same time. It makes zero sense to charge much above 60% except for the charging overnight before a long journey.
I agree constant DC charging is not great but it still takes many, many charges before e.g. Tesla start to cap you charge limit. It is one of the reason I don't recommend EV's for people who can't charge at home.
@D R My usual stop is usually around twenty minutes and in that time I'll go into the shop and maybe use the toilet which say takes about ten minutes leaving ten minutes waiting for the car to finish charging (although I rarely need to wait for some reason). So, I am waiting ten minutes.
With this solution I am sitting in the car while the battery swap happens so I wait ten minutes before/after spending the ten minutes in the shop. Actually this makes the stop take the same amount of time but I was being generous.
I don't hate this idea and used to think it was the way forward but with modern charging speeds and infrastructure it seems to me a solution looking for a problem.
Oh cool, that you can also show the process in more detail (outside of the 1000km challenge)
Your conclusion is spot on 😀
Just to clarify: Most diesel nozzles are lockable in Norway, although the majority of petrol pumps aren’t
Not true! I fill diesel daily in Oslo and I have yet to find a pump that locks. I remember it was possible previously. Maybe old pumps still have it…
Here in Finland the nozzles for trucks are lockable (because of huuuge tanks), nozzles for cars are not.
Just put the gas cap in the space between the trigger and the handle. Locking problem solved.
@@jonass4807 Might be the case in Oslo, but where I’m from most diesel pumps are still lockable
I thought no petrol pumps in Norway were lockable, but this summer I filled up with 95 at Esso in Rauland, and they had lockable petrol pumps
Also battery swap stations means jobs creation.
Very good view and presentation of the process.
game changing
You can actually get off the car quickly after you press the start swapping button. You just need to open and close the door quickly. This won't affect the swapping process, I do this all the time.
Also, when you get into the "preparing spot", you just need to press the HOME button to exist the 360 park-assist screen, so that you can press the button. No need to shift to P gear😊
Did you use the same swap station in Norway or in china? Might be different.
Can you park the car so it can enter the station in a single turn. No need to go forward and backwards again? It would save some time.
@@ExperienceCN Exactly the same, except for the language.
@@_ltccc6870 I don’t get it, why Nio can’t do the parking in a single turn.
No, the process will stop if you open the door. It is for safety reason.
I am loving this innovation. Dunno how practical it will be in real life, but kudos to Nio for thinking outside the box. Claiming it's "more convenient than filling gas" is ridiculous tho. By the time you were parked inside and could lean back one minute had passed. In that time I could've rolled up to the pump, got out, popped the gas cap, processed the payment card and probably filled a 3/4 full tank.
Not really innovation as tesla did battery swaps on the og model s. Videos of it from 2013 are on here.
They did a test back then vs another ice car a bmw 3 series in L.A. and the battery swap was faster back in 2013 than pulling up to a pump, getting out and using a card, then filling up the BMW.
It's not thinking outside the box. It's applying ICE mentality, and way of doing things to BEV. Not that good., IMO.
@@xmtxx There is a difference between making a prototype and massproduction. Nios stations are preforming a swap every 2s and has done ower 10 000 0000 swaps this far. They are building about 2 stations a day.
@@Lucas-wp2ph That doesn't change the fact that it's an idea coming from an ICE mentality, that doesn't apply well for Battery Electric Vehicles.
It has too many downsides, and too few upsides.
@@xmtxx Wrong this makes the ev on pair with a ice car. No One want to be stuck at a charging station waiting for your car to charge while wife and kids scream in the back. And suddenly out of nowhere one cell says goodbye and you need to change the whole battery for many thousands of euros. No thanks for this circus.
I hope that you do also one video about how that swapping station can handle a swap in bad conditions like ice and snow in sensors or under the car.
I look forward to having you test ET7
they are in norway already and a few already received licence plates! and most likely the first wil go out to press and test drives...i'm sure Bjorn will be one of the first in not the fist, his work is helping the brand alot
I'm so glad you finally got to experience battery swap! I'm excited to watch your experience
Can you make a video underneath the car how it’s swapped !?? Or as this close can you video currently?
Imagine if the car manufacturers had agreed on this system
What potential for renewable energies and its
storage in sunny and windy
hours
This type of filling station network would be a gigantic buffer tank
One of very few smart comments.👍
Yes, it would be great for standardization but sadly getting agreement on a platform would be impossible. But imagine the possibilities....with quick swaps, vehicle weight could be reduced as a standard of around 60KWh would surface. Plus add to that the ability to L2 or DCFC and it takes away range anxiety. Plus add to that if the charging bank for these packs was two directional then the grid could be fed with energy from packs in case of grid disruption. I am quite surprised Tesla didn't try to push a standard for quick swap technology with their ability to look at network solutions.
Problem is imagine how many batteries you have to make when one 1 station needs 10, thats alot of recources.
Daniel, if each swap takes 5 minutes the first swapped would have almost an hour to recharge. If a "standard" pack was 60 KWh it would only take 30 minutes to charge at 120 KW, easily ready for the 11th user. I think Nio must have DCFC at these stations?
they are indeed testing this in china!
You may only see 100Kwh batteries in the overview when you are arriving with a 100Kwh car, this may also explain why you are seeing less batteries than in Lier, the 75/100 ration may be different
I’m curious, do all the NIO models have the same wheelbase to fit the swap station’s wheel positioning slots?
I think this a good start. Hope it, or something becomes a standard. Different chemistries, capacities.
Pretty amazing tech, really!
It looks like the car is jacked up, the battery is removed and then the jacks are removed and floor hatch closed while the battery is being swapped with a recharged one. During this time the car still feels like being jacked up because it is lighter and thus it sits taller on the springs. Finally, the hatch opens, the new battery is installed and then finally the car is lowered and the hatch closes.
This is the future
Did you happen to know how does the cooling system play into it? It is with the battery? Would the swap disconnect coolant lines? Would appreciate any info
assume a self sealing quick connector similar as to what hydraulic systems employ between a tractor and a dump trailer where the pump and tanks are on the tractor and the trailer has the cylinder for lifting up the body
when you unscrew the fittings there is a plunger that seals it off before they actually disconnect and ALMOST zero fluid is lost
Sometimes if you do battery swap frequently, the car's coolant might exceed the maximum line, so the service guy needs to pump out some of the coolants from the car. Alternatively, if their sensor detects the coolant is less than the ideal state, the guy will refuel some of the coolants for the car.
Great but does it service just one type of vehicle? And more importantly where do I get the coffee and chocolate from?
I dont know why but in China some swap stations can change battery in about 4 min
might playing a little safer on these ones (slowing a bit) they sure wanna have a perfect score with no problems/failed swaps.... imagine a failed swap during a test like this.... that would be a PR nightmare. they are sure very reliable, but 1 minute more for actra caurtion is no big deal and a wise move
Pretty nifty process
It looks like the floor is moving under the car, so getting out during this operation may be hazardous. Maybe the mechanism does not cope well with load during battery swap(in the open state) even though it does support the weight of the car when closed
newly released Nissan kicks in our country has 2kwh of battery! 😅 saw somewhere it is good for 5km all electric range
Your claim is off course backed up by common sense and logic. 👍
And don't forget the unpleasantness of standing outside in the rain, 2°C and strong gale holding the nozzle. Then it's much better staying in the car.
THIS, is very cool! And the future for electric cars for sure. $30k for a new battery for a Volt is more than the car is worth.
This is so cool, Awesome!
Every electric car should be offered with this solution
Looks like putting on bigger rims with lower profile would be a bad idea if you plan to battery swap. :)
Is looking good ☺️
Unlike other EVs, you don’t have to worry about paying a lot of money to buy new battery. And batteries gives you less miles over time.
... ice, snow, slush can be washed off with a good pressure spray of hot water. That isn't difficult ...
offload the battery cost worries to NIO and let them service / rebuild the packs when cells start to fail
I dont get this drive next to it and let it back up.
It takes unnecessary time and maneuvering. You can clearly drive in form one end, swap the battery and drive out the other.
They need to change this nonsense IMO. You stop facing the entrance, you let the car drive in straight, swap the battery then you drive out the other end nice and easy.
I had the same thoughts years ago when this first came out. I believe the reason they don't drive in and drive out is due to real-estate required for the station.
@@indetrucks yeah, I think the Tesla stall layout was due to limited space. If battery replacement takes off I can imagine a drive through car wash style swap station will appear.
For the next generation, drive in form might be possible. The current setup is more space friendly. However, I think the time improvement might be only 20-30 seconds. Not a big deal.
MY GUESS as the alignment has to be exact and they do NOT want drivers to try and this FORCES the car to do it
That is so cool, it tells you how many batteries, the size and % charged.
Yeah 10 unused batteries laying around at every station.
@@mattaut88 Not even just that, but once they queue up you don't just need to wait for the whole process of changing but you will also recieve a not fully charged battery. What a stupid concept, especially since you right now can't even go to the toilet while the swap is in progress and you waste time afterwards. And you also need to pay monthly fees as you don't own any battery, wow.
But to be fair this concept is around 15min faster on 1000km as long as you don't eat something, they have no queues at the swap stations and the batteries are fully charged.
Yes, and how many customers waiting. Knowing a swap takes about 6 mins, you’ll know how long before it’s your turn. Much better than waiting for a slot at an EV charging station where you have no idea when a slot will become available.
@@kruemelfelix the battery doesn't get fully charged due to battery life cycle
@@kevinmills5293 The batteries once swapped need to be charged again.
If the station only has 10 batteries they will literally be empty after 50min and there's no way all the other packs are already at 90% again. Imagine charging 1MWh capacity in 50min :D
The issue is still present, exactly the same as for normal chargers.
What about if all batteries has been used? No battery available?
not possible, the system regulate it'self.. also capacity is 13 not 10 this station just opened and is less used, but you have to consider 13 batteries
I hope NIO develops this battery swapping technology to become fully automated. It seems to have significant user convenience benefits over charging The cost of a paid human attendant/operator seems fairly expensive, especially overnight. I also wonder about the manufacturing, installation, and maintenance costs for these stations. I guess we'll have to wait and see if these stations scale outside of China.
I am sceptical i must say. It's a very expensive proces i think. Also the swapping stations take a lot of space. Maybe in de future we need 10 of those at busy stations? But very nice technique non the less! Tnx for the video!
Well compare it to fast charging. One of these stations could swap the batteries of perhaps 10 vehicles/hr, while a fast charger could charge 2 vehicles who each take 30 minutes to charge. So if this thing takes up three parking spaces, it's still 60% more space efficient than the fast chargers.
It takes more then 6 minutes. And also need cars driving in. I think 6 an hour is not possible with this system. Also i think that not everybody is charging 30 minutes. I was driving from denmark back to the netherlands and i charged 15 or 20 minutes tops. Also it's a very expensive system and moving parts will brake. No don't see it happen.
Are they open 24/7?
There is still someone at the station, so sadly not.
Good idea, but what hapeend if there will be more then one car? The next car must be waiting.. and more and more..
I hope if and when this company comes to the US this too battery changer comes as well.
11:06 it's cleaner too, you don't touch anything
what are the costs?
none. 2 swap per month free then per kw is less than fast chargers. he did the math in another video
wait so the fresh battery only had 90% SoC??
Korrekt
@@bjornnyland why not 100%
Is that a question
Its got speed going for it but 2 big drawbacks
1. Its vendor or maybe even model specific, needs to be universal.
2. What happens when Nio redesigns the car, will they be limited because the new design has to fit the swap stations, or will owners of older Nio’s have to charge their batteries because the swap stations will be upgraded.
1 who cares about universal? it's their tech and their business. you want a nio you get battery swap, you want battery swap you get a Nio. Nio wins.
2 they have 7 SEVEN models, all compatible, acros 2 different platform generation, 3rd platform generatio well in development and stll will be compatible. also 3rd gen battery swap station all backward compatible. they are not Apple...
The next generation swap station are able to handle different generations of batteries.
If the idea of battery swapping takes off it'll have to become universal otherwise we would need a station for each manufacturer, that's going to take up a huge amount of real estate!
Lots of trolls and pseudo experts on the comments!!
Lots of dreaming people
Thats insane :D
In 2 years, in china in most larger cities , Nio cars will be able to go swap at night autonomosly and go back to the user parking space. It's not speculation, they are gonna do it.
Pending legislation, it will come in europe too.
I doubt it but what would be the point except for people who can't charge at home I guess.
@@g0balot Are you this stupid and igorant? MOST people in China CANNOT charge at home. They live in freakin' highrise apartments, Mr. Genius!
@@g0balot man.. guess you do not live in a large city, and agai.. it is not speculation, the tech is already in the cars
@@AndreaDeBernardi It really isn't if you think about it a bit.
I believe it will happen, but it also depends on the decions from local authorities. I just dont see it in 2 years time.
with removable pack I am always curious about weather resistance along with, are these packs liquid cooled or air cooled?
All NIO's batteries are liquid cooled
Wait so did this process take longer because he opened the door causing the machine to reset?
When did the door open? Timestamp?
@@bjornnyland hi I must have misunderstood what you said 8:10 mark. I see that you were referring to when the process first started and you went to the fast food place.
@@MrMountainHawk he was talking about the 1000km test. he got out the car during 1 swap and it did not start. they cars says to nor get out
Yes, better than fossil. If for some reason you need to drive to the Nio swap station and back.
Make a proper test. Oslo-Hbg-Oslo with two swaps and some old-fashioned charging.
Good video Bjorn. I enjoy the techy bits like this and wish you could have a camera inside the system so we could see the battery being swapped and selected. 😊😊 I think its a great idea and wish all manufacturers did this. It would take away the stress of chargers not working or overcrowding, and give people a greater option. For people who have no access to home chargers for whatever reason would not be put off buying one if this was an option. However you (I have not noticed) have not mentioned pricing? Would the costs of buying or leasing a vehicle go up or down or does the costs of swapping become an option for the rich? My bit of the UK has clear skies at the moment. 😂😂
Fearing that many chargers don't work or are overcrowded, but a single swap station is comfortable to you - what 🤦♂?!
How much is the swap?
i don't know price in norway , here in china we got 6 time free swap 1 month , if you need more , the price is 1.8 rmb /kwh = 0.26 usd/ kwh , 75 or 100 kwh - the battery you remain kwh = the price you pay
@@xiaoyang9758 what is the cost of the battery program to get the 6 "free" swaps? and is the car cheaper as you are "renting" the battery
can you stop paying the battery fee and NOT swap out BUT other wise be like every other EV?
@@jasonriddell after you bought NIO car here in china whatever you rent battery or buy the battery , you got 6 time free battery swap every month, if you choose install charge pile in you house you got 4 time free swap every month . those all include in car price. if you choose rent battery with NIO ,car price less 14k USD with 75 kwh battery package model, 20k USD with 100 kwh battery package model. if you choose rent battery you can't stop paying battery renting fee , whatever you swap or chage it at home . you sign the battery renting contract with Financial Services Inc, not NIO itself . after you choose rent battery you can still buy brand new battery and install in you car ,stop the renting contract.
@@jasonriddell with 6 time free battery swap evey month, 6x350km=2100km free ride every month . this is main selling point for NIO's car.
How much it cost?
i don't know price in norway , here in china we got 6 time free swap 1 month , if you need more , the price is 1.8 rmb /kwh = 0.26 usd/ kwh , 75 or 100 kwh - the battery you remain kwh = the price you pay
@@xiaoyang9758 Thank you, hope it is has cheap here in Europe.
Why isn’t this a drive thru setup?
Because of space. Designed to be at a corner of parking lots
you sacrifice 1 minute but they save alot of space, in china crowded cities that space il gold.
Gen3 might have a drive thru too as they say they are engineer to be more "europe/USA" friendly where there is more space and higher labour cost (gen 3 will be unmanned)
You can exit the car and give the staff your key!
The baby is so sweet :)
thats fine but this is more suited for taxi companies or van fleets or something that the business owns the swaping station,all the batteryes and the vehicles
Why the heck they didn't make it drive through like a car wash? No need for mumbo jumbo magic parking. I guess maybe space constraints? Are there drive through Nio swap stations? Could save like one minute swap time ;-)
how much 1 battery swap costs.
2 swap per month (200kw free) early adopter got 6 for like.
he did the math and per KW the cost is about 30% less that fastcarger in norway
I can imagine that the contactors are operated by the 12v system, so maybe after the hatch closes there is a quick sanity/safety check -potentially both sensor and image based - and finally the signal is given to the car to connect the high voltage contactors and the green light is shown on the panel
also assume a pack properly installed check is done to make sure every screw is properly seated ETC
Is backing in the only way it works? If so, this may not work very well in US market. Majority of the US drivers pull in a parking spot instead of backing in. They will have a hard time to align the car in the spot, espeically if they are low on juice...
many self serve here have locking nozzles to wash windows while you fill.
its a little bit slower, but it's like going to a full serve in the day and you had to wait for the attendant to get the machine and slip for your credit card. 🤣
only for 1 maker and battery design though.
it's nice while cars and battery stock are new.
5 years from now i buy a new one, and now they want me to swap out my brand new battery i'll never see again for a used one of unknown quality in comparison?
Why would you care? You will just swap again in a few days🤔
@@Lucas-wp2ph
because you'll never get a new battery again and your car just depreciated.
@@hg60justice exactly. This is what's happening in China.
@@hg60justice You Will Always have a new battery🤔
@@Lucas-wp2ph no, you won't.
it will always be a used battery.
how used is the question.
If you absolutely must remain in the car during this, I hope they implemented some safety equipment, fire suppression or whatever, in case a problem happens and someone is stuck in the facility and cannot get out.
This is a great concept and solution to overcome a lot of the drawbacks with EV's. The question on setup is why the whole solution isn't drive through so you don't have to mess around with reversing and parking - surely it would be easier if you could just drive in straight, stop for the battery change then exit by driving straight.
Every time you swap you battery there safety check with the battery you swaped , if there battery broken NIO will tell insurance company this process take times.
you referring the the battery removed from your car OR the one they fit into your car as being damaged and insurance is notified?
or is this just a guess?
@@jasonriddell the one removed。
Nio EV can do the battery swap in a quick turn around time. Tesla builds the a battery swap then immediately shuts it down before allowing the public use. If Tesla did not have a ten year lead they would be behind like the other EV companies out of USA. Waiting to see if the Nio comes to USA with their battery swap facilities. Sign me up Nio.
Very impressive! Nio needs to build several stations at the same location. During vacation, one per location is not enough. If you have 3 cars in front of you, you must then wait 20-30 minutes... And what is the price for the Abo for the swap that you will generally do only during long trips (in average 1-2 times per month) ?
if there is a lineup for over 30 minutes, you can always choose to plug in your car at the NIO station right next to the power swap building. Also you can see the cue in front of you before you get there.
Precisely!
you can book a swap well before arriving, so to time your swap properly
Sure they need more, they are gonna do it. They have a new factory in hungary that wil build station just for europe (shipping that thing from china it's probably costing a fortune.
But battery swap is not only about time, it's about upgradability, reliability, safety and resale value of the car.
Buy another EV, you are stuck with that battery forever, buy a NIO and 7 years from now, imagine what battery tech wil be available (200kw solid state maybe?) well stil perfectly good car could be upgrade is you need, or if second hand buyer needs it. Again, charging time is the least attractive feature, yet people are fixated on that!
A swap station can serve 6-10 cars in an hour. The waiting time is limited in most of the time. It could be very busy in cities, not along highways.
Well this is probably still slower than filling gas. But not by much. Btw- you don't have to hold the nosil, there's a thingy that'll hold it for you, and it'll autostop once full, but yes you still have to be present.
There's some gas stations where they'll fill up for you even.
I really like this swap concept. It makes sense to me, it's quick to not be a hassle. Now we just need these everywhere :)
Yeah, I usually fill up my fossil diesel in around 60-70 seconds, this battery swap lasted for about 300 seconds longer. I'll pass on this one.
The thingy is removed from the nozzles in Norway because safety.
@@ron999 tbh if you were able to leave the car and it swapped while you were getting a coffee / peed it'd not be a big deal.
@@LoomyX didn't know that, we still have it in Czechia. I've seen it Austria, Slovakia,.. As well.
I was refueling just today. Put car in park, open door, we have kind of a "self-checkout" gas stations with terminals, or qr codes that you can pay through the app so refueling really doesn't take too long. But I'd say 5 minutes for a battery swap - which will get faster as it evolves - is a game changer.
@@basedw Doesn't exist in france also. I thought it was a EU regulation.
From numerous videos coming from the US, where you see people leaving with the nozzle in their car, I'd say, it's a good idea this feature is forbidden in my country.
what is the cost say VS a Petrol XC90 Volvo to fill up as this car looks size wise about the same as an XC90
I heard swapping is a very high percentage in China so imagine costs in China are comparable to charging
also what is NIO's plan for warn out batteries? - hopefully priced into the swap station costs
Interesting idea. Nice and quick for a full battery.
One issue is longevity. This seems designed for this specific car. What happens when they produce another car that has a different wheelbase and battery size.
This can get complicated quite quickly.
they have cars of different wheelbase already, all compatible, the battery size was decided from the beginning to beh standard pretty much forever. they can already fit 150kw in that size (coming out in a couple of months) 200kw solid state in a couple of years, and they will be the same size, and compatible with a car made in 2018) also you surelly cannot do a battery that's longer and wider than the car anyway!
It still works at least from my experience in China. Now we have 70 Kwh, 75 kwh and 100kwh batteries available in the swap stations at the same time. As far as the wheelbase, there is no neeed to worry at all as there are now 5 types of NIO cars in China and they all share the same swap station.
One hand on the nozzle & one hand on the other nozzle
The other hand is doing something else.
Amazing! Great R&D
I still stand by my claim that charging model Y for 20min every 200miles is more convinient, you have to eat, have to pee, there is almost always a line at cash register, so with Nio you will be wasting the same ammount of time at gas stations/charging stops while waiting for burgers or clogging up plumbing + waiting in q at another place to swap battery and then swap battery.
While with regular charging you do all that and debate at the end do i hve time to clean windscreen or not.
if you think it's only about charging time, you miss the point and the vision of battery swap (and if your legit use case benefits more from charging, than you charge, no problem!)
Plus, c'mon... comparing a model Y with a ES8.... plz.
I don't see any problem be given one more choice to "re-fill" my car. With battery swap, I do have choice of either fast charge my car if there is a que in swap station or I plan to have some food or just swap my battery and heading to my destination asap. If I don't need to pee or have food, then I have a better and quicker choice to swap it. What if you don't need to pee or have food with your Modey Y? still waiting for 20 mins and go with non-full battery?
But can you swap out your 75 kWh pack for a 150 kWh pack if needed?
Xpeng just released their G9 which can be charged for 200km within mere 5 minutes. The NIO's swap station is just an interim solution which is fading quickly
@@Jeroenneman Yes, you can with additional rental fee once 150 kwh battery is available.
This particular station is clearly very bespoke for particular NIO models, as the front and back rollers appear to be fixed for the wheelbase of the car. While the concept is interesting, there are just too many issues that prevent this from replacing fast charging:
- standardizing size and shape of batteries
- standardizing electrical connections between pack and car
- standardizing hydraulic coolant connection between pack and car
- standardizing coolant chemistry to not cross-contaminate across various chemistries
- adapting fine positioning system (wheelbase of rollers and side-to-side motion) to a wide variety of car sizes and clearances
- potentially storing fully charged battery packs for longer periods during low demand; for NMC packs that could be a real issue for longevity, unless a robust just-in-time top-up from 80-100% is implemented
- car density is just not that great; only about 50% of the width of the structure is available for cars to battery swap, the rest is required for the charging and operating infrastucture
- while charging only takes around 5 minutes, that is still long enough for queueing to be necessary at busier locations, and since you have to keep advancing the car every few minutes, you can't leave it in line to go take care of business; I can easily see having to wait 20 minutes or longer at a busy freeway location to have your battery swapped, which is dead time you can't use for anything else as you have to keep moving your car. Overall I can actually imagine swapping at busies locations taking longer, not less.
Meanwhile fast charging is steadily improving and is truly standardizing across all brands, and with new and improving standards like Plug & Charge is also becoming increasingly low hassle. I think this will just remain an interesting historical footnote of no consequence to the larger EV transformation.
I just wonder how well this works at Winter ... Car bottom is full of snow, ice, slush, road salt, dirt ...
China also has heavy snow areas.
NIO is really the leader of EV. Battery swap is the future.
Things could be speeded up with a drive thru design
your second video about this and you still have not mentioned the pricing structure.
I have replied to many questions about this. Did you miss all of them? 2 kr/kWh and 100 kr/swap.
they need to add some entertainment and status updates to keep the person inside happy
Bjorn, are you thinking about a MG4 review?
Do all the neo models have exactly the same wheelbase? It doesn't look like the position the wheels stop in can be adjusted.
no they are not, but they are compatible. ES7 is longer and can use the same station Es6 is shorter... all compatible
The five models NIO cars sold in China have 4 different wheelbases and they share the same swap stations. Although, it do limits the flexibilities a bit in car design.
SUV --ES8: 3010 mm, ES7: 2960 mm, ES6: 2900 mm, EC6: 2900 mm Sedan-- ET7: 3060, ET5: 2888 mm
It's the only system that could convince me to buy an electric car. I hope they spread it in Italy
What people seem to miss in the demonstration of this technology is that in addition to swapping all Nio's can charge to the same degree as any other EV, but you ALSO can swap so if you own a Nio and stop in your local charging station and see it's got 20 cars waiting ahead of you a quick trip to your nearest swap station may be faster. Secondly, you can save money by buying the car without a battery and renting it, and finally in five years when your '22 Tesla's battery is obsolete so the resale value of the car is way down,
your '22 Nio will be able to insert the newest technology battery available when it swaps thus retaining its resale value much longer.
finally something understanding. charging time is not and will never be the MAIN reason. it's a nice plus but the real, long term bonus are others (2026.... there is a used ET7 for sale, they just launched a new 200kw solid state battery, you can have both... does Mercedes offer this?)
How exactly you save money by paying monthly for a battery? Its like buying fossil car and saying that you are saving money because its cheaper than electric not taking into account price difference of fuel and electricity. Car will get old much faster than a battery. Check, for example, Tesla stats of degradation (1% per 34,000 km). Evolving battery technology will make it even better. Charging time are also decreasing. Nice technology, but not ground braking. Especially in the long run. All you need to do is to use common sense. Nio still need to:
1. manufature battery,
2. manufacture some extra for a swap stations
3. CAPEX of swap stations
4. OPEX of swap stations
vs.
1. manufature one battery per car
2. build charging station or leave it for third party which will make majority of money selling coffee and food (like current gas stations does).
@@DainiusZelnys after a certain number of years renting batteries (remember you can always up grade at any time) will exceed the initial cost savings probably, but again the car is worth much more in resale at that time for the reasons stated. As relates to the swap stations Shell, so far, in Europe and China are partners and in China the govt and largest oil company are partners abd help subsidize the business. Keep in mind when Nio gets bigger they will charge for swaps and I expect govts in Europe (maybe not Germany if foreign EVs ruin their local car monopoly)will also subsidize them for their infrastructure costs which will if swapping is adopted by other mfgrs too, benefit all...
@@ejw8617 It will always cost more than charging period. Now they have investor cash flow and as a start up can work with loss. But for how long? They will have to start making money on this and then the cost will go up. Degradation and etc. still will have to be covered over time by a consumers and you will pay for it one way or the other. Swaping doesn't stop degradation in general. The only advantage here is that after 8 years (VW group gives battery warranty for this time) you will reduce the risk of battery failure. These failures will still happen, but the cost will be divided to all the users instead of one poor unlucky guy. But you will pay for it. Trust me over time there will be battery insurance programs and for some amount of money you will be able to ensure your battery pack. And final cost still be lower than swaping.
@@DainiusZelnys We won't know for a bit but I
"show you what it looks like when they do IT"
I'm still sceptical about this tech in the winter in cold climates, with salt on the roads etc. Will it really work over time with all that corrosive liquids around?
Yes because there is no Winter in China.https
://th-cam.com/video/mAm4weboDqo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Y4zLcKgkeC8/w-d-xo.html
Biggest thing is - time to time chargers are out of order for some reason. We all have seen ot and usually that stall is not working for 1-3 months up to 6 months in some occasions.
What happens if swapping station stopps charging batteries for some reason? Well not tomorrow or next week but what about 18 months in?
What of hydraulic door(floor) gets jammed in -20C•?
Idea might be good but if many Nios are bought in Norway, and on sunday, when everyone come back from cabins it could be a potential nightmare with 100 cars in queue.
Not been a problem so far (from January)
You do understand that it is possible to charge on regular chargers as well. If you have to que you just use a regular charging station
@@DarelBah So you mean at this occasion your nio is only on pair with all other evs that need to rely on bad fast charger and you need to fast charge😁
Battery swap has its usages but personally rather just charge my own battery and take a break.
How much more does the swapping-enabled car cost over normal EV? How much more does a swapping station cost over normal fastcharger? How much do the reserve batteries cost in the swapping station? The actual answers can't be (yet) read from Nio price list, they are still in start-up phase of the project. But I think I'll continue with a normal chargeable EV, charging very rarely slows my trips at all, I have to eat and pee too.
How much more does the swapping-enabled car cost over normal EV? they actually cost less than comparable mercedes audio bmw
@@AndreaDeBernardi 12 k. per month as a record and 200 k. during whole existence of the company... give me a break. Gross margin are going down, loss is going up. They will survive if investors will keep pouring money. This swap station is only thing that makes them different from others. This is the only reason they are holding to it so hard. If they will survive, it will be a nice car company with ok quality and market share. However its still a long way to go.
@@DainiusZelnys yeah they are so stupid the have the biggest EV dedicated production site in the world going online iright now.
@@AndreaDeBernardi i never said they are stupid.
@@AndreaDeBernardi Bigger than Tesla Shanghai?
I could see the appeal IF it didn't require the driver to stay in the car. On a road trip one would have change the battery, and only then go have a leak and order a coffee.
Unless they can also get the car to automatically park itself somewhere this will probably be unworkable, you can't trust the general public to be respectful of the 5 minutes window it takes for the swap to happen
@@JetsetDruid the system requires the car to self drive into the facility why not in the next gen it drives back out and parks in a "finished" line while you take care of business
in China they are talking about the car driving from your home to swap and returning home while you sleep
It is definately debatable whether this way of "re-energizing" a car really is "better than fossil"? It is way more complex with so many more points of failure compared to filling up the tank at a petrol station. But Nio has shown us that it is possible to create a car with easily servicable main battery, something that other car manufacturers should strive for, and maybe even should be forced to do on new cars by law (for all I know EU is already thinking of this...) This will make it cheaper to repair electric cars than it is today, and ensure that they have a longer life span on the road. Which again is more environmentally friendly.
from a consumer POV it is BETTER as you stay DRY and comfortable and NOT huddled next to the fuel pump pumping fuel
Renault tried battery swapping in Israel 5 - 8 years ago and I believe was largely abandoned
I believe the OG Leaf was designed to be swapped out also and that is partly why it's pack is air cooled
Its more than 5 minutes. Why took it so long
Yea I feel like it's marketing cause it its def more than 5 minutes from when you push the swap button. Maybe they start calculating the swap time the moment the car gets jacked up or when the first screw comes out.
Heard 3rd gen swap stations will swap in under 3 minutes. So it might be under 5 min with 3rd gen w/ parking time.
It's interesting technology. It might have its place (I'd say more in bigger cities for people without comfortable access to AC chargers than for long journeys… 1000km challenge is not how most people travel and they want the rest anyway).
But it also has downsides. It's single-type of car only (or at least single manufacturer), so each manufacturer needs its own separate network (which, naturally, must be sparser than network for everyone) and it's vendor-lockin thing. With charging (or petrol stations) you buy a car and then choose where you charge according to location, price, preferences, quality of food there. But here you either agree to swap with NIO or you don't swap (yes, you can still charge).
Just like Tesla have done for 10 years++ Building their own chargerstations, taking up a lot of space for Tesla only.
much like the Tesla supercharger network in the USA being Tesla ONLY
it is a "positive" lockout as in nobody else can use it BUT YOU CAN use it AND the "normal charge network so the NIO/Tesla GIVE you MORE options and NOT removal
@@janerikeikeb6297 The swap stations are proprietary, yes, and will likely to be that way for some years. However their footprint is much smaller. Looks like it is about the size of 3 or 4 parking spaces.
@@jasonriddell I'm not looking at it as an advantage of one brand (which it is), but what the move will force the others too.
Here in Europe, non-Tesla manufacturers had to join forces and build the Ionity network. It's not very dense, but much better than if every manufacturer had their own. In this world, if I travel cross-Europe in any of the cars, I can comfortably stop at reasonable intervals at this network.
But there's not much chance of this batter-swap option. Let's say NIO is super-successful with this model and other manufacturers have to do something similar. But then each of the manufacturers will have to build their own (sparse) network of swap stations.
I'm not saying the technical solution of battery-swap is wrong. I'm saying that this local advantage might in long term lead to overall worse user experience across all the brands.
Swap maybe for big trucks. Not needed for cars. So Nio will not see my investment money or customer money
You put yours.
Carry on