I agree. That was back when the Star Trek franchise had great writers. That was also back when Star Trek writers did not want to create anachronisms. That was also back when Star Trek writers honored the spirit of Gene Roddenberry. In other words, it was before "Star Trek" Discovery. The closest thing to a Star Trek series now is The Orville.
@@Kanpuu STD steals its ideas from video games. Google "Tardigrade video game". STD "writers" are now being sued by the writers of the Tardigrade video game. As a Star Trek fan, I mean a fan of REAL Star Trek, I wish the developers of that video game all the best in court. The best thing for the future of the franchise is for STD to die a quick but very painful death. I hope after the death of STD, which I hope comes soon, those idiot writers never again pollute another show. When will CBS and Bad Robot stop giving Star Trek fans the middle finger?
"It's not your fault that things are the way they are." "Everybody tells themselves that. And nothing ever changes." God, we need Trek like this right now.
Yep. That's why Jordan Peterson was received so well. He told people a message they haven't heard in a long time: Take Responsibility for your own lives and YOU start taking action to do something about it. Pointing the finger at other people has only ever made people miserable.
@@raptornugget5385 tell me, disregarding his personality, what fault do you find in the message? What fault is there in embracing burdens to strengthen yourself? Or enforcing discipline on those things you can affect? In valuing honesty? Really, if what he has to say is unoriginal, does that mean the original thesis is flawed?
@@raptornugget5385 I mean... hardly anyone ever says anything new or profound, it's a big world and we've had a lot of time for people to come up with ideas already. But even if he's not ground-breaking and new, Peterson is undeniably interesting. Maybe you don't like him, but millions of people are interested in what he says, that is literally the definition of the word "interesting." I think Peterson is interesting mostly because of his delivery, he's very good at speaking. especially at verbally sparing and/or examining complex ideas in a digestible way. I challenge you to watch his debate with Sam Harris and then claim he isn't interesting.
@@Leisurelee53 One of the issues with Jordan Peterson is that he's all about assuming absolute personal responsibility. If you can't change the world just by changing yourself and your very immediate surroundings you shouldn't even try, not even mentioning being part of social movements. He likes to impose standards on other people - first clean your room, then get a job, then a college degree, then a second one, then a phd, then have 5 kids and then MAYBE you should be eligible to bring a change. Sounds terrible, like on every step of the way you need to prove that you deserve your bloody existence; the guy's like a jungian archetype of tyrannical father and he lacks any self awareness about it. That and as mentioned before he really does not know what he's talking about most of the time - it's especially visible if you use google (postmodern-neomarxism word salad for example) or if you're an expert in any field he's touching that is outside of his expertise. There is a reason he's an internet celebrity - first is sweet money, second is that he can spout out anything he can without showing any citations, sources or without worrying about rigorous academical scrutiny. Don't get me wrong, it's ok to agree with Jordan Peterson, even broken clock shows the right time twice a day; not to mention his profound eloquence. I really do hope that one day I'll be able to be so mesmerizingly meandering and convincing as him.
@@PrypeciowyHovnozer there is nothing in any of his works or talks I've seen that gatekeeps social activism behind a PHD. I don't know if you're being hyperbolic to make a point... But it sounds like you misunderstood. The idea is, the types of people (left AND right) who are most open or maybe most vulnerable, to ideals involving sweeping large scale changes often do not have a solid individual existence to draw a comparison to. For example. (It's cliche) man grows up on farm. Man knows how systems and schedules and effort gets results. Man joins military. All of those perspectives transfer to some degree. Man is faced with a compromise of those morals and understanding by a superior who demands something outside their boundary. Stack his odds of finding a way to defy or countermand such a situation vs someone who had no family, no experience, no responsibility, and no fortitude in what they believe. I use the soldier example because while it might be trite, it is probably the single best case of weak people being encouraged to participate in large scale actions without thinking about what, why, or who they are confronting. Because that is the idea. The military mind is one of compliance. What Petersen advocates is a developed and fortified sense of self. Because that, in the extreme, is the difference between soldiers playing soccer on Christmas in 1917, and concentration camp guards worn down to the point of abetting atrocities. It's not about being a paragon. It's about individuation. So that when you are challenged, you don't just feel uncomfortable, you understand why you disagree. Just as you cannot expect an average person to understand geopolitics and the history of cultural or religious strife that goes back centuries, how could you trust someone who has no experience in choice and consequences and suffering to claim they know what is right for their entire culture to value? I don't see the man as a messiah or a eponymous ideal. He's simply stating the obvious; know yourself before you presume to dictate the morality of others. Not because it makes you a better leader. But because it makes you less likely to be a tool..
I had the pleasure of working on Season 3 and 4 as a Production Assistant. I love these actors and this show! Mr. Brooks was a powerful actor, and his voice is so lovely. Andy Robinson is fantastic as Garak; but they are ALL so, so good. I miss DS9 and this quality of Trek storytelling. One of my proudest moments was to have been a part of this epic adventure. My fave episode to watch is probably "Duet" (go Nana!).
Thank you for being part of DS9. Occupied Bajor echos deeply with my country’s past. DS9 will always have a special place in my heart. May the prophets light your path.
Garak had a lot of moments like that. I imagine he enjoyed them immensely. Putting himself to work doing wetwork, espionage, sabotage, all of that and more, It's the closest thing he had to being home again.
Sure, right up until they escape from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. At which point, still wanted by the Romulans, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them... maybe you can hire The Dominion.
This is why DS9 could go places that TOS and TNG couldn't. Kirk and Picard were ambassadors trying to bring paradise wherever they went, confident in their altruism, while Sisko had to stay and hold the line against chaos, and in the process learned that sometimes you have to use chaos to defend paradise.
"In the Pale Moonlight" has one of the greatest dialogues (and monologues) in the entire series, if not the entire franchise. Right at the end, The Captain comes to realize a bitter reality of war: that sometimes, you have to do the wrong things, for the right reasons.
Picard would surrender to the Dominion before breaking his morals unless you happened to be a proto vulcan society in the verge of adopting a religion instead of logic.
@@RealengoPrimordialDemon well...Picard was and is a die hard socialist. They only fight when the odds are heavily in their favor, and cheat whenever they can to make it so (no pun intended.) For all his so-called moral superiority, Picard was ultimately a hypocrite.
"In the Pale Moonlight" was the very first time, (to my knowledge), that I heard the word "acerbic" within the course of dialogue between Garak and Sisko in an earlier scene. I now use "acerbic" from time to time in my works. Thank you, Mister Garak. Star Trek has always been educational as well as entertaining. Take that, Kermit!
Another good scene was when Nog wanted to join Starfleet, but Sisko kept denying him until Nog broke out of his shell and explained to him why he wanted to join.
I think this is where you realized this show wasn't going to leave things as cheap jokes. Rom is introduced as Quark's idiot brother, but develops into more than that. And they address so early on what it must be like for Nog to see his dad treated that way
Another deep moment in DS9 missed out here is in 'Way of the warrior'. It has one of Best dialogues in the whole star trek franchise between Garak and Quark where they discuss the federation and how it is 'vile' and insidious'. A fact that is hard to argue when you consider how the Federation dealt with the Maqis and the well-kept secret Section 31. But Great dialogue.
I like it too, but I do have one problem with it and with Star Trek in general. The idea that we will have a Utopian society if we solve people's material needs is a load of garbage. It's simply not true because when you give humans what they need, they say "thank you" at first, but then demand more later on. Suggesting that the problems in the world only exist due to a lack of resources is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. It is the Marxist way, even. People don't become better in the long term when you take care of their every whim because it is only hardship that can make us better. War, plague, famine, crime, and poverty will always exist, and those things are the reason why strength, compassion, persistence, and ingenuity exist as well. We are humans, and we are far tougher than many of us know.
@@glennwilliams2950 It is one hundred percent fact. There have been so many times periods in human history where entire civilizations knew peace and prosperity, the people were safe, their needs were met, and their societies were very cohesive and trusting yet there was still want and misery a plenty.
"And all it cost was the life one one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you but I would call that a bargain." Why I consider this one of the best Trek episodes ever.
At Sisko's place, I could have had regrets about the ambassador and his crew, but I'd have none about sacrificing the criminal's life to preserve the entire Alpha Quadrant. That guy just was sentenced to jail because of crimes he commited for his personal benefit, dying to save billions is quite an honorable death, one a criminal would never deserve in the first place. The real shame is he probably never saw what that karma meant for him.
@@peternotarfrancesco2614 Indeed. No matter that we applaud people who hold to their "principles" - if preserving your principles comes at a cost to others, is that not just selfishness?
DS9: The show that looked into the face of the claim that humanity has evolved and admitted that claim was conditional at best. You can't help but respect such honest introspection.
Just imagining Picard and crew in season 1 TNG bragging about how advanced and perfect humanity has become all while a global Holocaust was happening on Bajor
@@naranara1690 That’s the brilliance of it - Humanity, advanced and perfect, believed itself beyond war. Beyond fighting, except in self defense. DS9 showed what happened when the good guys sit on their laurels. The cost of peace, sometimes, is allowing someone else to fight the war - And sometimes, that means the bad guys win. The OS and TNG reject Realism as a valid field of international political thought. DS9 forces us to confront the realities of what happens when some people reject Realism, but others don’t. Is paradise here worth dystopia there? Is interventionism toxic to universal peace? Necessary? Both? That’s up to the viewer.
Wil Rodriguez I love how Sisko is so diffrent from Picard but they some how both make amazing captains. I still prefer Picard because of his awesome speeches and ability to outwit his opponents rather than use direct force. However Siskos ability to to whatever must be done in order to protect the Fedration makes him a close second.
@@leontrotsky8676 TNG has some fantastic episodes but as a whole it was VERY rough. Much of the series doesn't hold up unfortunately. DS9 however has aged wonderfully. I love all Star Trek, but DS9 is the go to series for me to introduce the uninitiated.
@@Ozgarthefighter I wouldn’t go as far as to say that I’d introduce the uninitiated to Trek with DS9, I’d still go with TNG over it. That’s not to take away from its positive attributes tho, it’s an incredible series.
Bashir: "The point is, if you lie all the time, nobody's going to believe you. Even if you are telling the truth. Garak: "Are you sure that's the point doctor?" Bashir: "Of course. What else could it be?" Garak: "That you should never tell the same lie twice." Garak, Odo, Quark. These characters MADE this series amazing.
Quark & Garak are 1 & 2 in favorite characters for DS9. Captain Sisko is my 2nd favorite Captain overall (1 is Kirk) & hes my 3rd favorite character on the show. So I agree with ur statement sir.
I have a nearly impossible time putting any order to my favorite characters in DS9. Garak and Sisko probably sit at the top, but only by a small margin. Odo was another amazingly well played character. And I think too many people overlook Quark. He had so many high level insights (another would be his Root Beer to Federation comparrison). Even before "In the Pale Moonlight", Sisko being fully willing to render an entire planet uninhabitable in "For the Uniform" S5 Ep13 pretty much sold me on him being my favorite Starfleet captain ever. And I effing LOVED Picard. And Garak, I mean come on. With a line like "Come now, Mr. Worf! You're a Klingon. Don't tell me you'd object to a little genocide in the name of self-defense." Well, that's about all I need.
Love that one. The dialogue was so sharp, brilliant and on point. Kira: Ohh, that was stupid. Garak: Not at all. Damar has a certain...romaticism about the past. He could use a dose of cold water. Kira: Yeah, well I could have picked better time... Garak: If he's the man to lead the new Cardassia, if he's the man we all hope him to be, then the pain of this news made him _more_ receptive to what you just said...not less.
Odo: You'd shoot a man in the back?" Garak: "Well, it's the safest way, isn't it?" Funny and direct at the same time. If you're going to kill a man, doing it "honorably" doesn't lessen the fact that he's dead. For a guy who was always bragging about what a liar he was, he was never shy about telling some hard truths.
What you just said right there, sums up my view of what Alfie Solomons tried to teach Thomas Shelby in Peaky Blinders. He always got so angry when Shelby tried to be altruistic and honorable. *No, these are horrible things we are doing, so we will be doing them in the most horribly direct way.*
@@sterlingwirth7931I disagree. And Garak had honor. His loyalty was just often misplaced. It was because he had honor that he always ended up on the team of the good guys (or what he perceived them to be). He could have returned to Cardassia a hero had he just been a complete snake. But he was not. And that is why in the end, he was an ally to the federation and moreover the station. He would have likely given his life to save a child, while he would not stutter or cringe at the thought of killing innocent people in cold blood to achieve goals for the greater good. In the end, Garak was honest and honorable all along. He simply was lost many times due to constant struggle of seeing issues out of his control being handled poorly by those with authority. I truly believe that Garak just wanted a strong Cardassia with its history, art and literature intact. Among Cardassian’s, he wished to be viewed as honorable and respectable. Garak suffered from being far too intelligent as well as being homosexual, he never really felt “at home” anywhere. But no matter what happened, he would strive for achievement. That alone makes him more honorable than half the Klingon high council
I always had the impression that over time, Garak grew to love his cover of being a tailor. Once the DS9 senior staff became aware of his 'skills' he was called upon frequently while still being able to play the role of the innocent tailor out in the open. Seems like exactly the kind of kitsch that would get him excited lol
Except that he was employing his skills against his fellow Cardassians. Even though he was an exile, and had a personal beef with Dukat, he never stopped seeing himself as a Cardassian. And the fact that he was no longer welcome on his own planet always left a bitter taste in his mouth. So, when Damar died, Garak was more than willing to lead the final charge against the Dominion.
Garek was by far one of my most favorite characters.. infinitely complex and well played by Andrew Robinson. And even though you could never trust him, you couldnt help but like him.
Agreed. As Andrew Robinson said himself "With Garak, everything he says is in the subtext." He was sinister, yet charming, charasmatic, but unnerving. We always had the nagging sensation that Garak was incomprehensibly dangerous, but so likeable that you always teetered at the edge of at ease and on guard.
He's trying to convince himself, really. And Avery Brooks' body language and vocal performance sell it completely. That's one of DS9's greatest strengths - his performance as Sisko recording his log could have carried that entire episode, but they didn't have to.
Take into consideration as well that the way you just wrote it is how it looks on the script. Those 3 lines consist of 16 words and only take up a tiny percentage of this whole monologue. The way Avery Brooks delivers them is the true masterpiece of this episode... right down to his pauses between the first two lines, and his shift in posture (trying to get comfortable with what he did) before his final line. Along with Picard's "The first time any man's freedom is trodden on... we are all damaged." speech to Norah Satie, this is among the finest moments in 50+ years of Trek.
Far Beyond the Stars really showed off Avery Brooks acting skills. Known more for being a bad ass, it is amazing how well he portrayed this tortured soul of a man. Being a bad ass is easy. To be a man of vision, brought to his knees by a time that just wasn't ready for him, is difficult. And he pulled it off beautifully.
Picard and Kirk were captains at a more peaceful time when starfleet was more of an exploration force rather than a military. Sisko lived during a time of war where starfleet had to become more militarized and he had to make choices that were questionable much like our world today
If you think about it starfleet was always a military based command. It's just the first 2 series were peace and ds9 was war time. I still need to study the series to understand more still
Hardly. Kirk lived during the exploration phase, where every star was shiny and new. And dangerous. He and the gen 1 crew did some crazy shit to survive. Picard was captain of the flagship, leading a crew of veterans, experts, prodigies and uniques. He didn't get the _easy_ jobs, but he did get the best support.
@@JoshSweetvale it wasn't easy, but he wasn't a soldier. Neither was Sisko at first, but I think sisko and Archer are different kinds of captains and I love them more for it
@@Jiub_SNArcher was out on his own, either making peaceful contact or dealing with blood and war. He had to be different Sisko is dealing with a massive brush fire that was conveniently ignored by the Federation for several years, then the Dominion, then the war. And all the while trying to push through a ship design that the Federation later mass produces in small numbers because the war and the borg taught very hard lessens.
Kirk was a captain during the klingon war and the romulan war. He knew the ugliness of exploring space. Picard character was hypocritical. Sisko was always a realist because he saw the flaws of starfleet and how they expected everyone to buy the idea of peace.
This scene from this episode, and when Sisko commited exterminatus on Zolosus III in "For The Uniform" show why Sisko may be the most badass Starfleet captain ever. Hell, even more than when he cold-cocked Q that one time.
For being such a cunning assassin, I'm surprised Garak let Sisko hit him a second time, though maybe there was a purpose behind it. There was very little Garak did that didn't have a calculated purpose.
I wholeheartedly agree! I am on my seventh time through DS9, LOVE the series, and I still learn something new about it - either the format, the reasons for characters. It is balanced from start to finish with purpose to prove who Sisko is!
I concur, up until DS9 Starfleet were always the Heros, the Rightous! DS9 brought forward a more truthful grey (gray US) reality, gave us a wonderful cast and a truely brilliant story line.
Can we all just appreciate what an absolutely incredible actor Avery Brooks is? This man took the role of Benjamin Sisko, and he absolutely owned it. Sisko basically turned me from a Trek sceptic into a Trek fan.
Any idea what the reason for his weird breathing/speech thing was when get agitated? Some kind of speech impediment or so? If it was something that he overcame and that only 'broke through' when he got agitated, fine, good on him for. But if that should have been a deliberate choice... I'd say it was a really bad one...
This show was so far ahead of it's time. The early seasons were pretty good but right about Seasons 3-4, the show really found it's stride and continued to get better and better. Gul'Dukat is arguably one of the most flawlessly executed villains in television. Nog's character development was astonishing, going from troublemaking adolescent ferengi to decorated starfleet officer. And Garak? He was just so much fun to watch. I generally watch the entire series from start to finish about once a year and it's always just as good as the last time.
_"Gul'Dukat is arguably one of the most flawlessly executed villains in television."_ Up to the point where he went batshit crazy, I'd agree. After that, the writers effectively turned him into evil incarnate, no subtlety, no nuance, just a ridiculous caricature of a believable villain. As much as I "loved to hate" him before that, they turned him into a "get off my screen" character. I skip every scene of his (along with Kai Winn's) in order to avoid ending up just despising the last two seasons...
The best series in the franchise, period. The one thing I wish they would have changed was take the entire plot line about the prophets and in the ashcan. Other than that, can't think of a thing. And this was when you made 24-26 shows a year. Not 10 every year or two.
Siege of AR-558 is a great episode. Quarks speech about humans is deeper than Nog can even fathom. You put humans in conditions like AR-558 and come back later you'd swear the Klingons were responsible for what you found afterword.
I think the point of the scene is that Nog *does* get it. Quark didn't realize that Nog had matured beyond a simple view of pure good vs evil and heroes vs villains. He isn't a kid anymore, and is on his way to being a little bit of a scary badass actually.
I almost agree with you. That Nog said "I feel sorry for the Jem'Hadar" was an acknowledgement that humans can be as vicious and as brutal as Klingons.
The scene in the 50's dreamverse where Benny reacts to getting fired is one of the most powerful moments in Star Trek history, and a completely authentic masterclass in how to have a breakdown ... Avery Brooks was epic in DS9.
I never like DS9's racism episodes. They tended to break with Star Trek's tradition of exploring an interesting, and often morally grey, philosophical topic through allegory and metaphor woven into an otherwise compelling narrative by telling pretty middle of the road stories that stopped halfway through and had one of the main characters look into the camera and say "racism is bad" once or twice before resuming the plot as if nothing happened. I am almost certain they just threw a couple of "racism bad's" into their filler episodes' scripts to get good press on otherwise mediocre episodes, and I really despise that.
Sisko had to do the stuff other Starfleet captains couldn't do. He had so much blood on his hands, but in the end, the Galaxy was saved, and he fulfilled his duty.
Not really, Sisko had many traits that Picard didn't have. Archer existed before the Prime Directive and basically wrote the book of human exploration one phase canon at a time. Kirk did not hesitate to bend the rules in order get the job done. After getting stranded in the Delta Quadrant it was Earth or bust.
Now I want a video loop of Benny and a Romulan arguing back and forth. "It's REAL." "It's a FAAAAKE!" "It's REAL." "It's a FAAAAKE!" for all perpetuity.
@@paulwagner688 That is the one with the Cardassian who pretends to be the war criminal out of guilt? That was incredible, and the monologues were amazing
DS9 is the deepest, most thought provoking, and inflective of all the Trek series. Its depth and complexity is what made me reluctantly admit that it is the best Star Trek show.
Before 'woke' was a thing we had episodes of shows that actually pointed out the dumb problem we call racism for what it is: The province of idiots and people of a bygone age who should get with times. All men and women should only be judged for their character, not the colour of their skin.
@@TorgieMadison you are well aware (or should be at least) what he/she wrote and ment because the user explained in the 2nd sentence but you're twisting the words now for some ... well, I think we know the reason. Under the (some may say false) flag of 'anti-racism' the boundaries have been pushed to a state that if somebody critizises someone a certain kind of people will firstly not look at the critique and it's value but they will look at the one who is critizising, will look at the gender and skin colour of that person, then they look at the one who has been adressed with that criticism and look at that persons gender and skin colour and based on those facts decide whether the first person is allowed to it's critique (regardless it's content) of the second person. I'd call that racism. Would you agree? If not please mansplain me why that is. and i chose my words purposfully. not all people, not most people, but a certain kind of people. one could call it a minority (although a very loud and obsessed one) or an exception. but an exception is also racism nowadays. and those people are an example for racism claiming to be against racism. You disagree? If so, please elaborate why judging someone by it's skin colour would not be racist.
"That's why you came to me - isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I was able to do those things you weren't capable of ..." That scene was a fantastic bit of writing. I still go back to it sometimes to listen to Garak twist the knife slowly.
Frank's truest strike in that fight, was at Sisko's selfrighteousness - at the Federation's cloying selfrighteousness. Masterful scene, acted wonderfully.
"But they haven't surrendered. You know why? Because they're heroes." Actually, probably, in no small part, because the Dominion does not have a reputation for treating its prisoners well.
Not treating prisoners well in wartime can make the fight harder... I'd rather deal with a bunch of surrendered prisoners than deal with enemies determined to fight to the end. Letting the enemy know they will survive if only they would surrender is the pinnacle of the art of war. To win without even fighting.
What people don't give Sisko enough respect for is that he ALWAYS had to work in the grays... Always dealing with inner turmoil and decisions that would weigh on his mind and soul... That said, he also knew if you prayed for rain you gotta deal with the mud...
Sisko had to deal with the consequences of his actions. And that changed the show so much. It is a lot harder to make absolute decisions when you have to live with the consequences
Such a complex character, a religious icon to a whole race, a commander, and eventual captain of a space station in proximity to worm whole, a single father and a war leader who doesn't take no crap. Sisko is amazing.
Brilliant compilation. One scene was missing though. The talk between Remata‘klan, the Jem Hadar leader in ‚Rocks & shoals‘ and Sisko on the eve of the attack. Him, knowing that the Vorta has betrayed them, willing to go through with it anyway. Certain death. But honorable according to them. And Sisko knew it. That one look. The clarity between two warriors. That was one of the most impactful moments in the entire series. A masterpiece of TV entertainment indeed.
Yes that episode in which Gul Dukat and Sisko were stranded on a planet and Dukat was justifying all his past crimes; I thought that conversation was brilliant. I love to hate Kai Winn- she was such a b*tch lol.
@@Arklay_98 sisko made an omnipotent God look weak and french (aka cowardly and running at the first sign of trouble) took Picard the entire series to win against q
@@theuncoveredlamp That's your basis and reason? Weak.... Sisko didn't make Q look weak or cowardly. Sisko didn't do anything to Q. Are you serious? You never thought to think that Q was playing him at all? Which he was. Besides, Sisko is great, but Picard is the best captain.
The Maquis monologue really resonated to me. It's easy for Starfleet to maintain the Prime Directive in their position and living situation back on Earth, but, there are people on the border with a cold-war Empire that just got done openly slaughtering them with no restitution for the victims. Instead, they are given a home in a disputed territory that the Cardassians infiltrate and operate in anyways at every chance they can get, while The Federation tries to tell them "You better keep a clean whistle just like us all the way here back on Earth!"
It's apt for the current drama about DSC, too. So much insanity about visual canon and stuff, when we could just be appreciating what may grow into a decent successor to DS9 (it's nowhere near it yet, but the potential is there). Ultimately, though, will we ever know if it is stamped out before it's had a chance? It may not be accurate, but it *is*, and that matters.
@Reno Thomas neither was DS9. Roddenberry wanted a world without conflict. It's primarily because people moved Roddenberry out of the way that TNG got good, and DS9 even exists. Rick Berman and Ron Moore are what turned ST upside down... And are the only reason why there's been any ST since the first season of TNG
@Reno Thomas Gene Roddenberry wanted there to be no conflict, and his approach sucked. Other people took over control and let him keep his name on it. They made it good, by specifically *not* doing it Roddenberry's way.
It did the when I saw it on first run, still does. "I am a HUMAN BEING!". I live in a place where that wasn't believed at the time the episode took place.
Beyond the stars rocked me to my core when I first watched it. The writing was beautiful but The acting from Avery was simply stunning and largely unrecognised at the time. Over 20 years have passed and this episode still has the power to shock. That’s a true masterpiece.
The Pale Moonlight was probably the darkest moment in ST up to that point. It just shows that no matter how advanced we humans get, we can never escape our darker side. And say what you will about DS9, Avery Brooks was the best actor to ever play a character in this franchise.
A real life person in Sisko's boots would have absolutely no moral qualms about killing another power's representative to manipulate them into doing his side's bidding.
@@reluctantnabi It is comments like this that lead us to where we are in our political discourse. You can think well or ill about aspect of how someone is doing their job with out being racist. I personally think Avery Brooks did a right down the middle job as Sisko. Good in some areas, less than good in others. Does that make me 1/2 racist??
"It's ancient knowledge, you can't destroy an idea!" Man, the first time I heard that I just froze. That was a heartfelt and emotion-driven monologue from Avery Brooks.
How did this not include Jake Sisko alternate future where his father dies in an accident an only reappears at a certain time. That episode puts me in tears everytime
"In the pale moonlight" best episode of ds9 for sure!!maybe best Star Trek episode from all series....pure raw gritty emotions from sisko throughout!pure brilliance
The measure of a man is great TNG episode but I think in the pale moonlight is even better. The writing and acting in this episode were superb. It's probably the best trek episode, beating out "best of both worlds" even.
if i had to rate the best of the best, it would be "Inner Light" from TNG, "In the Pale Moonlight" for DS9 and "Year of Hell" for Voyager. It's a very close call for the first 2 and the biggest difficulty is they are so radically different in terms of nature of the story; IL makes me cry every time his wife is dying and tells him to put his shoes away, but ItPM really connects on how complex the entire series was (more gritty and shades of gray)
I'm going to throw a Voyager curveball into this convo, and say "Living Witness" is a decent challenger. I also agree with Inner Light and Measure of a Man, but perhaps Chain of Command rounds out my top 5. "There... Are... Four... Lights..!"
It seem like they favor the big names. These actors are better than many of the big names. The legendary band Pink Floyd for instance won an Emmy for "Best Engineered Non-Classical Album" for The Wall, and "Best Rock Instrumental Performance" for "Marooned" while pop stars are winning that many each year. Not fair to pioneers
I love that it's now cannon that one of the most decorated and well known captains in Starfleet was willing to cover up cold blooded murder to achieve a greater good. I love it.
One reason DS9 has such staying power is that it actually deals with real world issues in a human way. Many other trek shows got over the top with plot lines involving god like aliens with lazy soap box morals while DS9 really dealt wkth issues like hatred, revenge, racism, power politics. It also forced the good moral side (federation) to face consequences when in previous shows they always found some smart way where everyone wins
A good runner up to this list would be the ending of "The Wire". Garrak "Oh they were all true, Doctor." Bashir "Even the lies?" Garrak "Especially the lies..."
I didn't think about that but I watched it much the same. TNG was more serial than ds9 long arcs and the dominion war was only one od them. Without streaming its hard to follow long arcs imo.
This was a very Section 31-esque plot. Section 31 should've noticed Sisko's scheme and recruited him. In fact, it would've been fun if, at the end of the Bashir episode where Section 31 was introduced, Sisko had dropped a subtle hint that he not only knew about it, but was a member of it.
Throughout the different Trek series there was one continuous message within the various messages of every episode. That despite the evil that some humans prefer, despite their penchant for pettiness and their horrid habit of self-righteousness, despite (or in fact because) their nature permits them to not only accept but at times rely upon luck, the most illogical concept, humanity is ultimately the most resilient, the most militant, the most egotistical, the most xenophobic but simultaneously one finds the most benevolent, the most humble, the most egalitarian, the most hopeful, all within the same species. This was the greatest dream, that humanity might struggle out of its dark age into an enlightened state. And the fact that this dream came from a man who cheated on his wife, who drank too much alcohol, who was known back stage for his sexism, really only further makes the point: Despite all of the evils that humanity gives into, there is within them still the possibility to become much better creatures. That is the real message of Star Trek. HOPE for humanity.
And how much of that hope is a fools dream? Humans don’t learn from their past unless they themselves live through and experience the painful lessons and consequences of their own pettiness and selfishness. That is why history continually repeats itself forevermore because later generations have to go through the whole process over and over again that older generations did to reach enlightenment (if they even get there). Roddenberry had a nice dream, but it is just a dream and will always be till the end of time. The more things change the more they stay the same.
FAR BEYOND THE STARS was one of the most powerful DS9 episodes ever. Not only was it a chance to see the cast who play aliens with their real faces, but the content of the story was unlike any other episode before and since. Needless to say we saw Avery Brooks' acting range chew up the scene and spit it out like a ball of fire from the devil himself. I could feel his emotion breaking the screen barrier nd entering my room. My father is an emotionally powerful man who, while passionate, loving and extremely tolerant, wept a little when we first saw this episode.
"Computer.... Erase that entire personal log" Genius episode and acting by Andrew Robinson (Garak) and Avery Brooks (Ben Sisko) throughout that scene and every scene they're together
DS9 is one of those shows that once you watch it all the way through...you know you're not getting anything like it for at least another hundred years.
Avery Brooks should have been awarded a lifetime achievement award for "In the Pale Moonlight" alone. That episode left me in shock for at least an hour after I finished watching it. Holy crap the actions he had to live with in his head. That is just crazy.
'its not your fault that things are the way they are." "Everybody tells themselves that...and nothing ever changes.." can't remember which episode from DS9 but seriously.. to quote that, even in fiction is an understatement to what reality is today.
"Past Tense" (part 1 or 2 not sure). An episode that seemed unremarkable when I first saw it but is now SHOCKINGLY relevant with rising inequality, "the 47%", etc.
I can't agree with it, it is not the fault of anyone but those in power, you don't have to accept the blame for it if you have done all you can as an hour individual
@@CharlesUrban Exactly!! If we just got together and actually tried to get a societal problem solved, we would solve it. Granted, you'll never get the full 100% with you, but you rarely need the full 100% to make a significant impact at least.
Some honourable mentions for me are Nog opening his heart and admitting he's afraid to die to Vic Fontain in It's Only a Paper Moon, Old Jake Sisko talking to his father before his death at the End of the Visitor, and Jake Sisko talking to his father at the end of Nor the Battle to the Strong.
Great scenes. I would add the one where Kira and Whorf are disagreeing with Chief O'Brian and Odo. Kira: "That's the thing about faith, if you have it, no proof is necessary and if you don't, no proof will do." Very wise words. But this show always had great lines written for it.
I agree. This show doesn't blend other cultures into one ideal. It focuses on multiple cultures, almost contrasting. You have the Federation, the Bajorens, and the Cardasians, etc. Its not uniform
@ZoneFighter1 True faith may be rooted in wisdom, but it is not rooted in knowledge. For knowledge requires a level of proof to prove that it is knowledge. Wisdom does not. And it is quite possible to have faith without wisdom, (extremists of all religions), or wisdom without faith, (plenty of atheists are wise.)
Duet is one of my favorite episodes of television ever! The first time I watched DS9, I liked it, but I was on the fence. Then I watched Duet, and I realize how special the show was. That episode blows me away and sometimes makes me cry when I watch it! I've seen the show in it's entirety three times and individual episodes countless. Duet is one of those episodes that I've watched a countless amount of times.
@@johnblack3204 That's how I was. I watched TNG, and although there were some good episodes, a lot of them and the characters acted so cringey. After Duet, I saw DS9 was going to be something special.
13:07 might be one of my favorite moments in the series. There is so much in that second where Sisko looks at the glass then puts it down. You just know that at some point, Damar had a similar tipping point and gave in, drowning his sorrows.
Quark was always my favourite but now I'm beginning to realise just how good Garak was. I am pondering a rewatch of the whole series, something I have never done before for any show.
TNG was the Picard and Data show. TOS was Kirk, Spock and McCoy. ENT Archer T'Pol and Trip. Voyager Janeway & Seven. DS9 was an ensemble. In the truest sense. And that's one of the main reasons it was the best Trek. There were 10+ characters who had interesting arcs over the course of 7 seasons. DS9 was the last great "network" show imo
This is why I love watching StarTrek, actors/actresses who pour their soul into a character and make you feel/believe they are that person talking to you right that instant !
That was definitely the point that absolutely sunk it for me, that DS9 was the best Star Trek series of the lot. And I didn't even realize how long they built toward it, till this video, the various points where you see Sisko's hardening resolve, such as his rant to Kira that Earth was the problem, precisely BECAUSE it was paradise, and they didn't have to make the hard decisions, and Quark's speech to Nog, about how far humans can go if they've been pushed long enough and hard enough.
You missed a couple of good ones: When Quark was talking to Sisko about the differences between Humans and Ferengi. When Kira and the guy pretending to be Gul Darheel were talking about war crimes.
Sisko poisoning a Maquis colony with him announcing to Eddington that he is going to poison every Maquis colony. Garak (on psychotropic drugs) and O'Brien sparing over Federation decency. Quark and Garak talking about their salvation with the Federation (aka. the Root Beer scene). Garak torturing Odo. O'Brien getting arrested and later put on trial by the Cardassians. (I just thought Id add to your list)
"the guy pretending to be Gul Darheel "-- That was early on in the series during a time when people misremember that the series hadn't gotten good yet. That one rivals the infamous "there are four lights" scene in TNG to me
Absolutely and unequivocally one of the finest shows ever made. The reason for this is the depth of character development and how they use that to advance the show. Odo: Starts off as a curmudgeon. Though he is one, he has deep emotions and a craving for justice so pure that even the cardassians respected him. He ends up knowing that justice does not equate to good. He ends up knowing that friendship has a tremendously deep value. He ends up understanding what love means. He ends up treasuring compassion. He ends up caring for everyone - even quark. Quark: Starts off a typical ferengi. Moved only by greed, lust, revenge, and profit. An absolute sexist against women's rights. He ends up being a champion for those in need. He puts aside his greed to help people. He even pretends to be a woman to try to push women's rights. He might not be courageous like the others, but he is very brave when he needs to be. He becomes loyal to death, and someone well respected. Sisco: He starts off as a typical federation officer - though he is better with nuance than most. He is not religious in any real way. He ends up embracing his role as a prophet and religious icon and accepts the role for the betterment of an entire people, though plagued by doubt. Garrack: Starts off as a leftover sleeper assessing of the cardassian order who was banished. He ends up being a (mostly) trustworthy fellow. He was willing to die to kill the shapeshifters in order to save the alpha quadrant even though it was underhanded. When captured by the Djem Hadar, he braved his phobia of closed spaces and worked on a transmitter in the wall. He became a person who valued other people, despite being incredibly deadly. He developed principles, despite being an assassin. Kira: She fell for handsome religious bajorans like a slinky down stairs. She ends up realizing that she loves Odo, despite him not being bajoran, or even completely humanoid. She grows very much as a person as well, coming to terms with the fact that good Cardassians do in fact exist. I could go on, but do I need to? One of the greatest concepts ever put onto film.
He is a great actor. I do give Patrick Stewart a lot of credit as well, also Brendan Spiner is a fantastic actor when allowed to flex said acting chops.
Babylon 5 says that that person is Peter Jurasik. th-cam.com/video/dw2K1B04lLo/w-d-xo.html leads into th-cam.com/video/wR7n4Gg-_ac/w-d-xo.html ends with th-cam.com/video/47DfQcHMYLY/w-d-xo.html The greatest tale of revenge ever told.
@@ayanithtalreign Both are wonderful, but Brooks’ performance stands out more in a Star Trek show because of the lack of competition. The actors in Babylon 5 are all so good it’s tougher to pick just one.
@@timmooney6910 I would not say that, unless you are comparing it to OTHER shows. Did you ever do that thing with your friends when the subject was 'If you could dispose of one character, which would it be?' The Next Gen. was quite easy - get rid of Wes, Troi and even Riker. DS9, NO character could be eliminated. Even the second tier characters were essential.
Great choices. I would have also included that moment in...I can't remember which episode, but Quark and Garak are having a conversation in his bar and Quark pours Garak a root beer and tells him to drink it. Garak is disgusted with the sweet taste and Quark compares it to the Federation - it's sweet, sickly and insidious, and you eventually develop a taste for it. It was a great little conversation that wasn't really central to the plot of the episode but it spoke volumes about an alien's view of the utopia that is the Federation.
This very same trope was played when Senator Vreenak was changing mind on quality of replicted Romulan Ale, subtly hinting to quality of Sisko's arguments.
This is exactly why DS9 has always been my favorite series of Star Trek. It really gave Avery a chance to show his amazing abilities at not only acting, but he also got to sing and he has some pipes. "In the Plain Moonlight" is not only one of the greatest episodes of Star Trek, it's easily one of the greatest episodes in the history of television.
Best scene for me is when Rom confronts Quark about rigging Nog's entrance test into Starfleet and basically tells him he cares more than anything about his son's success and happiness
Avery Brooks' delivery of the line "I'm a human being dammit" sends absolute CHILLS down my spine. No other line uttered by no other black actor has EVER made me feel the overall pain of black people than that one. Ever.
It was more than likely the pain of that era, for sure. But that is not how things are now. As long as you keep that in mind, the impact of the scene is truly exceptional.
On the whole, I utterly despised that entire arc. While the acting was on point, a few moments were good, the arc on the whole was beneath them. Personally, I prefer my entertainment without political lecturing. DS9 was usually great about keeping it's politics internal to the universe it was set in. The times it did not are some of the worst moments in the franchise. That is not to say it couldn't still speak to the human condition. That past clip was masterful. Sure, it spoke to the human condition but it wasn't "about" that. It was about one man's descent into darkness and the forboding shadow of a moral battle to keep himself from being corrupted by a culture of war. So. Many. Layers. ...not the on-the-nose politics of racial propaganda.
4 ปีที่แล้ว +1
@papish drunk Sure mate, even though you agressively push marxist tenets like some imaginary 'societal discrimination' (he's not a white male homosexual, so fuck off, there is no such discrimination) and you push how SJW pandering in Star Trek is somehow a correct answer to this imaginary problem. And why do you use bullshit words that are exclusive to marxists, such as 'bourgeois'? Oh and of course the typical marxist viewpoint that I don't immediatly bow and kowtow to your ideology, therefore I as a normal person am "part of the problem". Typical marxist 'us vs them' rhetoric.
Nog said it. We're a species that hunts animals for sport. If Starfleet ever really stopped being intimidated by the Jem'Hadar, the Klingons would have been merciful by comparison to some of the cruelties that Homo sapiens would have inflicted on them, and the Founders.
And honestly, would Section 31 have been in the wrong? The Founders official policy was to dominate or to destroy any and all sentient solid life forms they encountered. There's no reason to think they'd honor in the long term any treaty they signed with a species that was such an existential danger.
'In the Pale Moonlight' is my favorite episode. The ending scene with Garak easily shoves aside his other efforts. Absolute masterstroke in the manipulation of a foreign power to bring them to war against his enemy. The Obsidian Order lost a great leader when Tain dumped him.
The episodes after AR-558 that dealt with Nog’s PTSD were great too. Also, _”Plain, Simple Garak”_ might be my favorite supporting character in all of Trek.
The more I watched DS9 the more I came to realize what a masterpiece it was.
Keith Garland totally agree - binging this on Netflix right now. The writing and acting is way above the other series.
In the pale moonlight. That was some dark shiet. Also loved the root beer bit they keep dropping across the series, it's insidious ;)
I agree. That was back when the Star Trek franchise had great writers. That was also back when Star Trek writers did not want to create anachronisms. That was also back when Star Trek writers honored the spirit of Gene Roddenberry. In other words, it was before "Star Trek" Discovery. The closest thing to a Star Trek series now is The Orville.
Rajano Gray And back when the StarTrek writers had Babylon 5 Scripts to copy.... okay rework....
@@Kanpuu STD steals its ideas from video games. Google "Tardigrade video game". STD "writers" are now being sued by the writers of the Tardigrade video game. As a Star Trek fan, I mean a fan of REAL Star Trek, I wish the developers of that video game all the best in court. The best thing for the future of the franchise is for STD to die a quick but very painful death. I hope after the death of STD, which I hope comes soon, those idiot writers never again pollute another show. When will CBS and Bad Robot stop giving Star Trek fans the middle finger?
"It's not your fault that things are the way they are."
"Everybody tells themselves that. And nothing ever changes."
God, we need Trek like this right now.
Yep. That's why Jordan Peterson was received so well. He told people a message they haven't heard in a long time:
Take Responsibility for your own lives and YOU start taking action to do something about it.
Pointing the finger at other people has only ever made people miserable.
@@raptornugget5385 tell me, disregarding his personality, what fault do you find in the message?
What fault is there in embracing burdens to strengthen yourself?
Or enforcing discipline on those things you can affect?
In valuing honesty?
Really, if what he has to say is unoriginal, does that mean the original thesis is flawed?
@@raptornugget5385 I mean... hardly anyone ever says anything new or profound, it's a big world and we've had a lot of time for people to come up with ideas already. But even if he's not ground-breaking and new, Peterson is undeniably interesting. Maybe you don't like him, but millions of people are interested in what he says, that is literally the definition of the word "interesting." I think Peterson is interesting mostly because of his delivery, he's very good at speaking. especially at verbally sparing and/or examining complex ideas in a digestible way. I challenge you to watch his debate with Sam Harris and then claim he isn't interesting.
@@Leisurelee53 One of the issues with Jordan Peterson is that he's all about assuming absolute personal responsibility. If you can't change the world just by changing yourself and your very immediate surroundings you shouldn't even try, not even mentioning being part of social movements.
He likes to impose standards on other people - first clean your room, then get a job, then a college degree, then a second one, then a phd, then have 5 kids and then MAYBE you should be eligible to bring a change.
Sounds terrible, like on every step of the way you need to prove that you deserve your bloody existence; the guy's like a jungian archetype of tyrannical father and he lacks any self awareness about it.
That and as mentioned before he really does not know what he's talking about most of the time - it's especially visible if you use google (postmodern-neomarxism word salad for example) or if you're an expert in any field he's touching that is outside of his expertise.
There is a reason he's an internet celebrity - first is sweet money, second is that he can spout out anything he can without showing any citations, sources or without worrying about rigorous academical scrutiny.
Don't get me wrong, it's ok to agree with Jordan Peterson, even broken clock shows the right time twice a day; not to mention his profound eloquence. I really do hope that one day I'll be able to be so mesmerizingly meandering and convincing as him.
@@PrypeciowyHovnozer there is nothing in any of his works or talks I've seen that gatekeeps social activism behind a PHD. I don't know if you're being hyperbolic to make a point... But it sounds like you misunderstood.
The idea is, the types of people (left AND right) who are most open or maybe most vulnerable, to ideals involving sweeping large scale changes often do not have a solid individual existence to draw a comparison to.
For example. (It's cliche) man grows up on farm. Man knows how systems and schedules and effort gets results. Man joins military. All of those perspectives transfer to some degree.
Man is faced with a compromise of those morals and understanding by a superior who demands something outside their boundary. Stack his odds of finding a way to defy or countermand such a situation vs someone who had no family, no experience, no responsibility, and no fortitude in what they believe.
I use the soldier example because while it might be trite, it is probably the single best case of weak people being encouraged to participate in large scale actions without thinking about what, why, or who they are confronting. Because that is the idea. The military mind is one of compliance.
What Petersen advocates is a developed and fortified sense of self. Because that, in the extreme, is the difference between soldiers playing soccer on Christmas in 1917, and concentration camp guards worn down to the point of abetting atrocities.
It's not about being a paragon. It's about individuation. So that when you are challenged, you don't just feel uncomfortable, you understand why you disagree. Just as you cannot expect an average person to understand geopolitics and the history of cultural or religious strife that goes back centuries, how could you trust someone who has no experience in choice and consequences and suffering to claim they know what is right for their entire culture to value?
I don't see the man as a messiah or a eponymous ideal. He's simply stating the obvious; know yourself before you presume to dictate the morality of others. Not because it makes you a better leader. But because it makes you less likely to be a tool..
I had the pleasure of working on Season 3 and 4 as a Production Assistant. I love these actors and this show! Mr. Brooks was a powerful actor, and his voice is so lovely. Andy Robinson is fantastic as Garak; but they are ALL so, so good. I miss DS9 and this quality of Trek storytelling. One of my proudest moments was to have been a part of this epic adventure. My fave episode to watch is probably "Duet" (go Nana!).
I loved “Duet.” Thanks for your role in a show that is beloved by so many.
ALSO ONE OF MINE AS WELL❤
Thank you for being part of DS9.
Occupied Bajor echos deeply with my country’s past.
DS9 will always have a special place in my heart.
May the prophets light your path.
Duet. A jewel of an episode. I don’t wanna say any more than I have to in case whoever reading this ain’t seen it yet.
Garak was a manipulative badass.
Getting the villains condemned for a crime they didn't commit was absolute genius.
I love how he out maneuvered the genetically enhanced doctor. Bashir had a naive streak that seriously limited him achieving his full potential.
The moment when Sisko approached Garak with his plan, Garak knew he had to kill the senator. It's something most fans fail to understand.
Garak had a lot of moments like that. I imagine he enjoyed them immensely. Putting himself to work doing wetwork, espionage, sabotage, all of that and more, It's the closest thing he had to being home again.
I've always felt like DS9 was truly Garak's story, in much the same way I think Babylon 5 was Londo Mollari's.
Sure, right up until they escape from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. At which point, still wanted by the Romulans, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them... maybe you can hire
The Dominion.
20 years later and people are still talking about DS9. I call that a win.
It seems to have gotten better with age. A sign of the times maybe.
Alot of fans call it the best Trek. Sacrilegious words back when it was airing.
I watch it now at Netflix. The best series of all Star Trek 😍 The characters are all great!
@@markabraham5956 Well the typical episode of DS9 would make me fall asleep before I could finish an episode.
@@danneltheflannel thanks for sharing
Popularity is not really an argument. I'm sure I don't need to explain why ;)
"It is easy to be a saint in paradise"
This is why DS9 could go places that TOS and TNG couldn't. Kirk and Picard were ambassadors trying to bring paradise wherever they went, confident in their altruism, while Sisko had to stay and hold the line against chaos, and in the process learned that sometimes you have to use chaos to defend paradise.
"When you live with apes, man... it's hard to stay clean."
I prefer "You don't get in bed with the devil without getting fucked."
But it’s hard to be a saint in the city.
Where did you get that one?
"In the Pale Moonlight" has one of the greatest dialogues (and monologues) in the entire series, if not the entire franchise. Right at the end, The Captain comes to realize a bitter reality of war: that sometimes, you have to do the wrong things, for the right reasons.
Not sometimes ...
Picard would surrender to the Dominion before breaking his morals unless you happened to be a proto vulcan society in the verge of adopting a religion instead of logic.
@@RealengoPrimordialDemon well...Picard was and is a die hard socialist. They only fight when the odds are heavily in their favor, and cheat whenever they can to make it so (no pun intended.) For all his so-called moral superiority, Picard was ultimately a hypocrite.
"In the Pale Moonlight" was the very first time, (to my knowledge), that I heard the word "acerbic" within the course of dialogue between Garak and Sisko in an earlier scene.
I now use "acerbic" from time to time in my works. Thank you, Mister Garak.
Star Trek has always been educational as well as entertaining.
Take that, Kermit!
@Ray mine too
Another good scene was when Nog wanted to join Starfleet, but Sisko kept denying him until Nog broke out of his shell and explained to him why he wanted to join.
I think this is where you realized this show wasn't going to leave things as cheap jokes. Rom is introduced as Quark's idiot brother, but develops into more than that. And they address so early on what it must be like for Nog to see his dad treated that way
That scene was amazing.
Heart of stone I believe it was
@@BlackAxem It is also intimated that Rom plays up the buffoon angle as a way to keep or get out of trouble
Another deep moment in DS9 missed out here is in 'Way of the warrior'. It has one of Best dialogues in the whole star trek franchise between Garak and Quark where they discuss the federation and how it is 'vile' and insidious'. A fact that is hard to argue when you consider how the Federation dealt with the Maqis and the well-kept secret Section 31. But Great dialogue.
“It’s easy to be a saint in paradise” best line ever
Best description to DS9 isn´t it?
I like it too, but I do have one problem with it and with Star Trek in general. The idea that we will have a Utopian society if we solve people's material needs is a load of garbage. It's simply not true because when you give humans what they need, they say "thank you" at first, but then demand more later on. Suggesting that the problems in the world only exist due to a lack of resources is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. It is the Marxist way, even.
People don't become better in the long term when you take care of their every whim because it is only hardship that can make us better. War, plague, famine, crime, and poverty will always exist, and those things are the reason why strength, compassion, persistence, and ingenuity exist as well. We are humans, and we are far tougher than many of us know.
@@warrioroflight6872 in your opinion. That is not a fact because we've never lived without poverty or war or crime.
@@warrioroflight6872 change your name or change your position, there is no light in what you have said
@@glennwilliams2950 It is one hundred percent fact. There have been so many times periods in human history where entire civilizations knew peace and prosperity, the people were safe, their needs were met, and their societies were very cohesive and trusting yet there was still want and misery a plenty.
"And all it cost was the life one one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you but I would call that a bargain." Why I consider this one of the best Trek episodes ever.
At Sisko's place, I could have had regrets about the ambassador and his crew, but I'd have none about sacrificing the criminal's life to preserve the entire Alpha Quadrant. That guy just was sentenced to jail because of crimes he commited for his personal benefit, dying to save billions is quite an honorable death, one a criminal would never deserve in the first place. The real shame is he probably never saw what that karma meant for him.
Spock says, “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or the one.”
@@peternotarfrancesco2614 Indeed. No matter that we applaud people who hold to their "principles" - if preserving your principles comes at a cost to others, is that not just selfishness?
Perhaps the best thing about that line is that it connects to the 1st quote- "it's easy to be a saint in paradise."
I think I can live with that
Garak was one of the best characters you'll find on any TV series, regardless of genre.
YES!
Agreed, one of my all-time favorite Trek characters.
Loved him in Dirty Harry
Sid City. He and Alexander Siddig (Bashir) still do fanscripts
@@orac22 yeah, they said the reason Dukat and Garak hate each other is because they got drunk one night and smashed😅
DS9: The show that looked into the face of the claim that humanity has evolved and admitted that claim was conditional at best. You can't help but respect such honest introspection.
Just imagining Picard and crew in season 1 TNG bragging about how advanced and perfect humanity has become all while a global Holocaust was happening on Bajor
@@naranara1690 That’s the brilliance of it - Humanity, advanced and perfect, believed itself beyond war. Beyond fighting, except in self defense.
DS9 showed what happened when the good guys sit on their laurels. The cost of peace, sometimes, is allowing someone else to fight the war - And sometimes, that means the bad guys win.
The OS and TNG reject Realism as a valid field of international political thought. DS9 forces us to confront the realities of what happens when some people reject Realism, but others don’t. Is paradise here worth dystopia there? Is interventionism toxic to universal peace? Necessary? Both?
That’s up to the viewer.
Meanwhile Q is looking at Picard with a shit-eating grin that screams "I told you so."
@@brandywinebridget it's a simple us vs them debate, and who wouldn't want us over them? Us includes the who.
@@Jiub_SN That’s a very succinct explanation of Realism theory, thanks
*The best move Sisko ever made was to shave that head.*
Leadership lessons from Ben Sisko.
Worked for me.
I read somewhere that Sisko was the inspiration for Walter White's look.
z8ph0d who's Walter white?
Andrew Parker Breaking Bad
z8ph0d
Sisko's looks was inspired by Hawk from "Spencer for Hire".
Deep Space 9 is the overlooked series. It was deep, moving and Avery Brooks is so unappreciated as a Star Trek Captain.
Wil Rodriguez I love how Sisko is so diffrent from Picard but they some how both make amazing captains. I still prefer Picard because of his awesome speeches and ability to outwit his opponents rather than use direct force. However Siskos ability to to whatever must be done in order to protect the Fedration makes him a close second.
You know why that is. There's one thing about Sisko that's different from all the other Star Trek captains. He grew a beard.
More people are watching DS9 today than when aired. It was ahead of its time.
DS9 is the only series I can go back and watch without it feeling terribly dated.
Ds9 is prob ably the best Trek, once you get past the first season or so. Seasons three till the end were wonderful.
By FAR, the best acted, best written Star Trek series. No other comes close.
idk, there are some very notable TNG episodes I could cite.
@@leontrotsky8676 TNG has some fantastic episodes but as a whole it was VERY rough. Much of the series doesn't hold up unfortunately.
DS9 however has aged wonderfully.
I love all Star Trek, but DS9 is the go to series for me to introduce the uninitiated.
ehnnn. TNG.
@@leontrotsky8676 by that measure, there were some fantastic Voyager episodes.
@@Ozgarthefighter I wouldn’t go as far as to say that I’d introduce the uninitiated to Trek with DS9, I’d still go with TNG over it. That’s not to take away from its positive attributes tho, it’s an incredible series.
RIP Aaron and RIP Rene.
Bashir: "The point is, if you lie all the time, nobody's going to believe you. Even if you are telling the truth.
Garak: "Are you sure that's the point doctor?"
Bashir: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "That you should never tell the same lie twice."
Garak, Odo, Quark. These characters MADE this series amazing.
They let DS9 explore ideas that Starfleet officers could never consider without losing the respect of the audience.
Quark & Garak are 1 & 2 in favorite characters for DS9. Captain Sisko is my 2nd favorite Captain overall (1 is Kirk) & hes my 3rd favorite character on the show. So I agree with ur statement sir.
I have a nearly impossible time putting any order to my favorite characters in DS9. Garak and Sisko probably sit at the top, but only by a small margin. Odo was another amazingly well played character. And I think too many people overlook Quark. He had so many high level insights (another would be his Root Beer to Federation comparrison).
Even before "In the Pale Moonlight", Sisko being fully willing to render an entire planet uninhabitable in "For the Uniform" S5 Ep13 pretty much sold me on him being my favorite Starfleet captain ever. And I effing LOVED Picard.
And Garak, I mean come on. With a line like "Come now, Mr. Worf! You're a Klingon. Don't tell me you'd object to a little genocide in the name of self-defense." Well, that's about all I need.
When doing bad things, its not about not doing them, its about not getting caught doing them.
"Everything was true, Doctor. ESPECIALLY the lies"
Damar: The casual brutality of it all....what kind of people give those orders?
Kira: Yeah Damar...what kind of people give those orders?
such an amazing slap back line, there were times when Kira just made me want to stand up and slow applaud
(* MIC. DROP. *)
Exactly. The shoe was on the other foot and Damar didn't even realize it.
Love that one. The dialogue was so sharp, brilliant and on point.
Kira: Ohh, that was stupid.
Garak: Not at all. Damar has a certain...romaticism about the past. He could use a dose of cold water.
Kira: Yeah, well I could have picked better time...
Garak: If he's the man to lead the new Cardassia, if he's the man we all hope him to be, then the pain of this news made him _more_ receptive to what you just said...not less.
@@BasicShapes yep. It was a dick move, very hurtful, but ultimately needed.
Odo: You'd shoot a man in the back?"
Garak: "Well, it's the safest way, isn't it?"
Funny and direct at the same time. If you're going to kill a man, doing it "honorably" doesn't lessen the fact that he's dead. For a guy who was always bragging about what a liar he was, he was never shy about telling some hard truths.
Stand in the ashes of a trillions dead and ask their ghosts of honor matters…the silence is your answer.
What you just said right there, sums up my view of what Alfie Solomons tried to teach Thomas Shelby in Peaky Blinders. He always got so angry when Shelby tried to be altruistic and honorable.
*No, these are horrible things we are doing, so we will be doing them in the most horribly direct way.*
Everything Garak ever said was absolutely true... especially the lies...
"I shoot a man in a fair fight-- or if I think he might try an' start a fair fight."
@@sterlingwirth7931I disagree. And Garak had honor. His loyalty was just often misplaced. It was because he had honor that he always ended up on the team of the good guys (or what he perceived them to be). He could have returned to Cardassia a hero had he just been a complete snake. But he was not. And that is why in the end, he was an ally to the federation and moreover the station. He would have likely given his life to save a child, while he would not stutter or cringe at the thought of killing innocent people in cold blood to achieve goals for the greater good. In the end, Garak was honest and honorable all along. He simply was lost many times due to constant struggle of seeing issues out of his control being handled poorly by those with authority. I truly believe that Garak just wanted a strong Cardassia with its history, art and literature intact. Among Cardassian’s, he wished to be viewed as honorable and respectable. Garak suffered from being far too intelligent as well as being homosexual, he never really felt “at home” anywhere. But no matter what happened, he would strive for achievement. That alone makes him more honorable than half the Klingon high council
I always had the impression that over time, Garak grew to love his cover of being a tailor. Once the DS9 senior staff became aware of his 'skills' he was called upon frequently while still being able to play the role of the innocent tailor out in the open. Seems like exactly the kind of kitsch that would get him excited lol
He’s a very good tailor ;(
Except that he was employing his skills against his fellow Cardassians. Even though he was an exile, and had a personal beef with Dukat, he never stopped seeing himself as a Cardassian. And the fact that he was no longer welcome on his own planet always left a bitter taste in his mouth. So, when Damar died, Garak was more than willing to lead the final charge against the Dominion.
Garak always takes immense pride in his skills and his abilities - even being a tailor.
The most amazing thing about Garak, is that (best I know) he was written as a one off, and grew in popularity to get the large role he eventually got.
Garek was by far one of my most favorite characters.. infinitely complex and well played by Andrew Robinson. And even though you could never trust him, you couldnt help but like him.
A young Andrew Robinson played the killer in Dirty Harry.
Agreed. As Andrew Robinson said himself "With Garak, everything he says is in the subtext." He was sinister, yet charming, charasmatic, but unnerving. We always had the nagging sensation that Garak was incomprehensibly dangerous, but so likeable that you always teetered at the edge of at ease and on guard.
I beg to differ. You could trust Garak implicity - not in his words, no, but in his actions and his beliefs, that they would be for the better good.
To an extent. I think the episodes featuring him were distant 2nd in interest after the ones focusing on the ferengi.
I think they kept making his character role in the stories bigger over time because of how well the actor played him.
"I can live with it,...I can live with it??....Computer, erase that ENTIRE personal log..."
Shudders scary
He's trying to convince himself, really. And Avery Brooks' body language and vocal performance sell it completely. That's one of DS9's greatest strengths - his performance as Sisko recording his log could have carried that entire episode, but they didn't have to.
The fact that he deletes it proves exactly that he can live with it.
EVERY DAMN TIME!
Take into consideration as well that the way you just wrote it is how it looks on the script. Those 3 lines consist of 16 words and only take up a tiny percentage of this whole monologue. The way Avery Brooks delivers them is the true masterpiece of this episode... right down to his pauses between the first two lines, and his shift in posture (trying to get comfortable with what he did) before his final line. Along with Picard's "The first time any man's freedom is trodden on... we are all damaged." speech to Norah Satie, this is among the finest moments in 50+ years of Trek.
Sisko's evil
Far Beyond the Stars really showed off Avery Brooks acting skills. Known more for being a bad ass, it is amazing how well he portrayed this tortured soul of a man. Being a bad ass is easy. To be a man of vision, brought to his knees by a time that just wasn't ready for him, is difficult. And he pulled it off beautifully.
Picard and Kirk were captains at a more peaceful time when starfleet was more of an exploration force rather than a military. Sisko lived during a time of war where starfleet had to become more militarized and he had to make choices that were questionable much like our world today
If you think about it starfleet was always a military based command. It's just the first 2 series were peace and ds9 was war time. I still need to study the series to understand more still
Hardly.
Kirk lived during the exploration phase, where every star was shiny and new. And dangerous. He and the gen 1 crew did some crazy shit to survive.
Picard was captain of the flagship, leading a crew of veterans, experts, prodigies and uniques. He didn't get the _easy_ jobs, but he did get the best support.
@@JoshSweetvale it wasn't easy, but he wasn't a soldier. Neither was Sisko at first, but I think sisko and Archer are different kinds of captains and I love them more for it
@@Jiub_SNArcher was out on his own, either making peaceful contact or dealing with blood and war. He had to be different
Sisko is dealing with a massive brush fire that was conveniently ignored by the Federation for several years, then the Dominion, then the war. And all the while trying to push through a ship design that the Federation later mass produces in small numbers because the war and the borg taught very hard lessens.
Kirk was a captain during the klingon war and the romulan war. He knew the ugliness of exploring space. Picard character was hypocritical. Sisko was always a realist because he saw the flaws of starfleet and how they expected everyone to buy the idea of peace.
In the Pale Moonlight is my favorite episode in all of Star Trek. It's so fantastic.
Best damn episode of any star trek
Best Star Trek episode ever, and one of the best Sci-Fi episodes ever.
This scene from this episode, and when Sisko commited exterminatus on Zolosus III in "For The Uniform" show why Sisko may be the most badass Starfleet captain ever. Hell, even more than when he cold-cocked Q that one time.
For being such a cunning assassin, I'm surprised Garak let Sisko hit him a second time, though maybe there was a purpose behind it. There was very little Garak did that didn't have a calculated purpose.
Garak is, underneath everything, a decent person. He let Sisko hit him because he deserved it and Sisko needed it.
TNG made Trek great. DS9 made Trek real. And I adore them both for it.
Well Said!!!
TNG was so utopian whereas DS9 retained the faults of mankind in a way we can learn from
Facts
I wholeheartedly agree! I am on my seventh time through DS9, LOVE the series, and I still learn something new about it - either the format, the reasons for characters. It is balanced from start to finish with purpose to prove who Sisko is!
I concur, up until DS9 Starfleet were always the Heros, the Rightous! DS9 brought forward a more truthful grey (gray US) reality, gave us a wonderful cast and a truely brilliant story line.
Can we all just appreciate what an absolutely incredible actor Avery Brooks is? This man took the role of Benjamin Sisko, and he absolutely owned it. Sisko basically turned me from a Trek sceptic into a Trek fan.
Any idea what the reason for his weird breathing/speech thing was when get agitated? Some kind of speech impediment or so? If it was something that he overcame and that only 'broke through' when he got agitated, fine, good on him for. But if that should have been a deliberate choice... I'd say it was a really bad one...
@@Wolf-ln1mlWell, sometimes people talk differently.🫤
This show was so far ahead of it's time. The early seasons were pretty good but right about Seasons 3-4, the show really found it's stride and continued to get better and better. Gul'Dukat is arguably one of the most flawlessly executed villains in television. Nog's character development was astonishing, going from troublemaking adolescent ferengi to decorated starfleet officer. And Garak? He was just so much fun to watch. I generally watch the entire series from start to finish about once a year and it's always just as good as the last time.
_"Gul'Dukat is arguably one of the most flawlessly executed villains in television."_
Up to the point where he went batshit crazy, I'd agree. After that, the writers effectively turned him into evil incarnate, no subtlety, no nuance, just a ridiculous caricature of a believable villain. As much as I "loved to hate" him before that, they turned him into a "get off my screen" character. I skip every scene of his (along with Kai Winn's) in order to avoid ending up just despising the last two seasons...
Just commenting for my yearly watching :)
Garak is the most perfect morally ambiguous character ever. He seamlessly flows from good to evil to good. A perfect anti-hero
Louise Fletcher villan?
The best series in the franchise, period. The one thing I wish they would have changed was take the entire plot line about the prophets and in the ashcan. Other than that, can't think of a thing. And this was when you made 24-26 shows a year. Not 10 every year or two.
"I can live with it".... Is it just me, or does Avery Brooks somehow form those words as both a question and an affirming statement at the same time?
It's almost like if you say something enough times you start to believe it.
Yes, he's convincing himself.
That was the point of his delivery. Convincing himself that his evil was justified.
It was the delivery since his character was trying to convince himself that the ends justify the means
Avery Brooks is one of the most underrated actors in recent history IMHO
Siege of AR-558 is a great episode. Quarks speech about humans is deeper than Nog can even fathom. You put humans in conditions like AR-558 and come back later you'd swear the Klingons were responsible for what you found afterword.
I think the point of the scene is that Nog *does* get it. Quark didn't realize that Nog had matured beyond a simple view of pure good vs evil and heroes vs villains. He isn't a kid anymore, and is on his way to being a little bit of a scary badass actually.
They had similar moments in "Little Green Men."
I almost agree with you. That Nog said "I feel sorry for the Jem'Hadar" was an acknowledgement that humans can be as vicious and as brutal as Klingons.
klingons would leave the bodies of the enemy to rot in a pile outside the came.
humans would leave the remains of the enemies cleanly picked bones.
Mr Jay White or we pull a patriot cut off their heads and send them in a basket to a vorta
The scene in the 50's dreamverse where Benny reacts to getting fired is one of the most powerful moments in Star Trek history, and a completely authentic masterclass in how to have a breakdown ... Avery Brooks was epic in DS9.
I never like DS9's racism episodes. They tended to break with Star Trek's tradition of exploring an interesting, and often morally grey, philosophical topic through allegory and metaphor woven into an otherwise compelling narrative by telling pretty middle of the road stories that stopped halfway through and had one of the main characters look into the camera and say "racism is bad" once or twice before resuming the plot as if nothing happened.
I am almost certain they just threw a couple of "racism bad's" into their filler episodes' scripts to get good press on otherwise mediocre episodes, and I really despise that.
@@robertmartin6800
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
It could have very easily been hammy and overwrought in the hands of a less capable actor...
Sisko had to do the stuff other Starfleet captains couldn't do. He had so much blood on his hands, but in the end, the Galaxy was saved, and he fulfilled his duty.
"You hit me?! Picard never hit me!?"
"I'm not Picard!"
Not really, Sisko had many traits that Picard didn't have. Archer existed before the Prime Directive and basically wrote the book of human exploration one phase canon at a time. Kirk did not hesitate to bend the rules in order get the job done. After getting stranded in the Delta Quadrant it was Earth or bust.
@@deadlee0b1and Q never bothered Sisco again.
So, literally, the top two deepest moments of DS9 is "IT'S REAL," and "It's a FAAAKE!" ;)
That observation deserves WAAY more Likes!!
Now I want a video loop of Benny and a Romulan arguing back and forth. "It's REAL." "It's a FAAAAKE!" "It's REAL." "It's a FAAAAKE!" for all perpetuity.
Genii
+Novidian Ta-da! th-cam.com/video/6lHgbbM9pu4/w-d-xo.html
To tide you over, here's ten hours of "Wabbit Season!" "Duck Season."
th-cam.com/video/0pSTT7yaiDQ/w-d-xo.html
For In The Pale Moonlight, you should have played the entire episode. The whole thing was one massive deep moment.
"IT'S A FAAKE"
Yeah while the scene shown was really really good, it is something of a spoiler, when taken out of context of the whole episode.
one of the greatest series episode of all time.
@@agk8361 Don't forget about "Duet"
@@paulwagner688 That is the one with the Cardassian who pretends to be the war criminal out of guilt? That was incredible, and the monologues were amazing
DS9 is the deepest, most thought provoking, and inflective of all the Trek series. Its depth and complexity is what made me reluctantly admit that it is the best Star Trek show.
A million Discovery and Picard episodes will never be as good as these five DS9 episodes were.
"I'm a human being, damnit." Man, that episode.....
Before 'woke' was a thing we had episodes of shows that actually pointed out the dumb problem we call racism for what it is: The province of idiots and people of a bygone age who should get with times. All men and women should only be judged for their character, not the colour of their skin.
choked me up in the ugly cry even to this day
Wow just WoW
@EPloar Div Oh, humanity has gone a little bit too far in the "not racist" direction? Please elaborate.
@@TorgieMadison you are well aware (or should be at least) what he/she wrote and ment because the user explained in the 2nd sentence but you're twisting the words now for some ... well, I think we know the reason.
Under the (some may say false) flag of 'anti-racism' the boundaries have been pushed to a state that if somebody critizises someone a certain kind of people will firstly not look at the critique and it's value but they will look at the one who is critizising, will look at the gender and skin colour of that person, then they look at the one who has been adressed with that criticism and look at that persons gender and skin colour and based on those facts decide whether the first person is allowed to it's critique (regardless it's content) of the second person.
I'd call that racism. Would you agree? If not please mansplain me why that is. and i chose my words purposfully. not all people, not most people, but a certain kind of people. one could call it a minority (although a very loud and obsessed one) or an exception. but an exception is also racism nowadays. and those people are an example for racism claiming to be against racism.
You disagree? If so, please elaborate why judging someone by it's skin colour would not be racist.
"That's why you came to me - isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I was able to do those things you weren't capable of ..." That scene was a fantastic bit of writing. I still go back to it sometimes to listen to Garak twist the knife slowly.
Love the smirk and head toss.
th-cam.com/video/VixYS0xm5LI/w-d-xo.html
Frank's truest strike in that fight, was at Sisko's selfrighteousness - at the Federation's cloying selfrighteousness.
Masterful scene, acted wonderfully.
Garak told ZERO lies the entirety of this episode.
cuz that IS EXACTLY why Sisko asked for his help.
'In the Pale Moonlight' is a masterpiece. I never get tired of watching it.
"But they haven't surrendered. You know why? Because they're heroes."
Actually, probably, in no small part, because the Dominion does not have a reputation for treating its prisoners well.
Yeah. When you know the odds are you're going to die if taken prisoner you will fight to the very end.
Not treating prisoners well in wartime can make the fight harder... I'd rather deal with a bunch of surrendered prisoners than deal with enemies determined to fight to the end.
Letting the enemy know they will survive if only they would surrender is the pinnacle of the art of war. To win without even fighting.
@@roblaquiere8220 Exactly.
@@roblaquiere8220 Which is what Gul Dukat teaches us, of course.
What people don't give Sisko enough respect for is that he ALWAYS had to work in the grays... Always dealing with inner turmoil and decisions that would weigh on his mind and soul...
That said, he also knew if you prayed for rain you gotta deal with the mud...
I like that statement. "Sisko worked in the greys." He was given a difficult job running DS9, and he walked a fine line to do it.
Sisko had to deal with the consequences of his actions. And that changed the show so much.
It is a lot harder to make absolute decisions when you have to live with the consequences
Such a complex character, a religious icon to a whole race, a commander, and eventual captain of a space station in proximity to worm whole, a single father and a war leader who doesn't take no crap. Sisko is amazing.
Thats what happens if you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight.
Avery Brooks does not get enough credit for his performance on DS9. Ever since For the Uniform, I knew that he was going to be quite interesting.
That was my second favourite episode, and what cemented Sisko as my favourite Captain.
"The Visitor" was the only Trek episode that ever made me cry. Even now it makes me tear up a bit. That story is both tragic and beautiful.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
It was nominated for the Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation in 1996. One of my favorite episodes.
Brilliant compilation. One scene was missing though. The talk between Remata‘klan, the Jem Hadar leader in ‚Rocks & shoals‘ and Sisko on the eve of the attack. Him, knowing that the Vorta has betrayed them, willing to go through with it anyway. Certain death. But honorable according to them. And Sisko knew it. That one look. The clarity between two warriors. That was one of the most impactful moments in the entire series. A masterpiece of TV entertainment indeed.
That was a great scene too!
Ahhhh... just seeing Garak makes me wanna rewatch DS9 all over again
Andrew J. Robinson deserves a ton of credit he's not gotten. And Mark Alaimo.
I think the fans have made up for that a lot, they love Robinson
garak and quark while not the core of the show to me were a glue that held the story together as it kept going.
Yes that episode in which Gul Dukat and Sisko were stranded on a planet and Dukat was justifying all his past crimes; I thought that conversation was brilliant. I love to hate Kai Winn- she was such a b*tch lol.
In glorious HD that we will never get...
There's a reason why when anyone asks "whose the better captain: Kirk or Picard?" my answer is always Sisko
Sisko was a bit of that best and worst of Picard and Kirk.
Yes
But it’s Picard so nice try.
@@Arklay_98 sisko made an omnipotent God look weak and french (aka cowardly and running at the first sign of trouble) took Picard the entire series to win against q
@@theuncoveredlamp That's your basis and reason? Weak....
Sisko didn't make Q look weak or cowardly. Sisko didn't do anything to Q. Are you serious? You never thought to think that Q was playing him at all? Which he was.
Besides, Sisko is great, but Picard is the best captain.
The Maquis monologue really resonated to me. It's easy for Starfleet to maintain the Prime Directive in their position and living situation back on Earth, but, there are people on the border with a cold-war Empire that just got done openly slaughtering them with no restitution for the victims. Instead, they are given a home in a disputed territory that the Cardassians infiltrate and operate in anyways at every chance they can get, while The Federation tries to tell them "You better keep a clean whistle just like us all the way here back on Earth!"
The episode where Sisko disappears and Jake has to become old without his father... only seeing him a few times... that gets me tear-eyed every time.
The Visitor. Such a powerful episode.
"It's not about what's right, it's about what is."
That quite aptly describes the attitude that DS9 has.
Callum Shamwana right.
It's apt for the current drama about DSC, too. So much insanity about visual canon and stuff, when we could just be appreciating what may grow into a decent successor to DS9 (it's nowhere near it yet, but the potential is there).
Ultimately, though, will we ever know if it is stamped out before it's had a chance? It may not be accurate, but it *is*, and that matters.
@Reno Thomas neither was DS9. Roddenberry wanted a world without conflict. It's primarily because people moved Roddenberry out of the way that TNG got good, and DS9 even exists. Rick Berman and Ron Moore are what turned ST upside down... And are the only reason why there's been any ST since the first season of TNG
The problem with that statement is that it doesn't make sense because what is right IS what is.
@Reno Thomas Gene Roddenberry wanted there to be no conflict, and his approach sucked. Other people took over control and let him keep his name on it. They made it good, by specifically *not* doing it Roddenberry's way.
Goddamn Avery Brooks as Benny Russell made me shed man-tears.
Bartman954 best episode
best performance ive ever seen
It really was good...and so much different than what he normally does.
Bartman954 I was barely able to hold back tears
It did the when I saw it on first run, still does. "I am a HUMAN BEING!". I live in a place where that wasn't believed at the time the episode took place.
Beyond the stars rocked me to my core when I first watched it. The writing was beautiful but The acting from Avery was simply stunning and largely unrecognised at the time. Over 20 years have passed and this episode still has the power to shock. That’s a true masterpiece.
In the Pale Moonlight is the absolute best episode of all star trek imo.
1000% agree.
The Pale Moonlight was probably the darkest moment in ST up to that point. It just shows that no matter how advanced we humans get, we can never escape our darker side.
And say what you will about DS9, Avery Brooks was the best actor to ever play a character in this franchise.
I'd say Andrew Robinson was the best.
A real life person in Sisko's boots would have absolutely no moral qualms about killing another power's representative to manipulate them into doing his side's bidding.
@ Brooks' dramatic acting is just breathing heavily and loudly
No.. he was guilty of badly overacting at times though it was generally good.
@@reluctantnabi It is comments like this that lead us to where we are in our political discourse. You can think well or ill about aspect of how someone is doing their job with out being racist. I personally think Avery Brooks did a right down the middle job as Sisko. Good in some areas, less than good in others. Does that make me 1/2 racist??
"It's ancient knowledge, you can't destroy an idea!" Man, the first time I heard that I just froze. That was a heartfelt and emotion-driven monologue from Avery Brooks.
DS9 is the best, most underrated Star Trek series ever made.
How did this not include Jake Sisko alternate future where his father dies in an accident an only reappears at a certain time. That episode puts me in tears everytime
It wasn't played enough
They knew that we'd all be a puddle of tears, I guess.
"In the pale moonlight" best episode of ds9 for sure!!maybe best Star Trek episode from all series....pure raw gritty emotions from sisko throughout!pure brilliance
Agreed!
Well, there's also The Measure of a Man, but yeah it's definitely in the top 5 of all series.
The measure of a man is great TNG episode but I think in the pale moonlight is even better. The writing and acting in this episode were superb. It's probably the best trek episode, beating out "best of both worlds" even.
if i had to rate the best of the best, it would be "Inner Light" from TNG, "In the Pale Moonlight" for DS9 and "Year of Hell" for Voyager. It's a very close call for the first 2 and the biggest difficulty is they are so radically different in terms of nature of the story; IL makes me cry every time his wife is dying and tells him to put his shoes away, but ItPM really connects on how complex the entire series was (more gritty and shades of gray)
I'm going to throw a Voyager curveball into this convo, and say "Living Witness" is a decent challenger. I also agree with Inner Light and Measure of a Man, but perhaps Chain of Command rounds out my top 5. "There... Are... Four... Lights..!"
Which begs the question, Why didn't any of these actors get Emmy's? Some powerful stuff and no one in Hollywood cares.
It seem like they favor the big names. These actors are better than many of the big names. The legendary band Pink Floyd for instance won an Emmy for "Best Engineered Non-Classical Album" for The Wall, and "Best Rock Instrumental Performance" for "Marooned" while pop stars are winning that many each year. Not fair to pioneers
Sarah Kinsey Exactly! Lots of preferential treatment in Hollywood.
Trent Timoy I don't like award shows. They're biased and showy. The underdogs never get appreciated for what they have done.
Sarah Kinsey I get that. But then you have to campaign as well if you want to be considered.
Hollywood is filled with overpaid, kiddy-diddling coke heads. The best thing that ever happened to them was internet piracy.
I love that it's now cannon that one of the most decorated and well known captains in Starfleet was willing to cover up cold blooded murder to achieve a greater good. I love it.
One reason DS9 has such staying power is that it actually deals with real world issues in a human way. Many other trek shows got over the top with plot lines involving god like aliens with lazy soap box morals while DS9 really dealt wkth issues like hatred, revenge, racism, power politics. It also forced the good moral side (federation) to face consequences when in previous shows they always found some smart way where everyone wins
A good runner up to this list would be the ending of "The Wire".
Garrak "Oh they were all true, Doctor."
Bashir "Even the lies?"
Garrak "Especially the lies..."
"Especially the lies!"
Or the scene where Garak was in withdrawl and telling the story about letting the children go and being exiled for it. That was a pretty deep moment.
cammameil I would have loved to see a cross over with Picard and Garrak.
And "The Duet".
Or The Visitor.
Anyone know why they called the ship *Defiant* ?
Because *Sisko's Righteous Bitch Slap* wouldn't fit on the hull.
good one! :D
I legitimately lol'd over that.
"Bad Motherf***er" was already taken?
Lore Reloaded called the Defiant Ben Siskos Mother F#$@ing Pimp Hand
Should have called it "Sisko's Motherfuckin' Pimp Hand"
"The more I watched DS9 the more I came to realize what a masterpiece it was"
I heartily agree
I didn't think about that but I watched it much the same. TNG was more serial than ds9 long arcs and the dominion war was only one od them. Without streaming its hard to follow long arcs imo.
Love the way Sisko breaks the 4th wall as he says "i can live with it"
Second time he says it, he's trying it out. Seeing if it's true.
Third time, there's no hesitation anymore.
You can't destroy an idea. I created it, and it's real!"
I'm not crying you're crying.
Oh I was crying! Back then and again today!! I won’t blame my allergies for it this time lol
Truely a raw and personal emotion from Avery Brooks on the struggles of live for Black Americans during that time frame.
That moment still gets me. Avery Brooks was excellent in that entire scene.
It's a FAAAAAAAAAAAKE!
I'm a 26 year old white kid who cries to that scene everytime
"Computer erase that entire personal log" Captain Sisko Section 31 candidate...
hahahahahahah brilliant
and empty recycle bin
except Section 31 wouldn't recorded the log in the first place. ;)
I think even Section 31 would have been a bit intimidated by that maneuver.
This was a very Section 31-esque plot. Section 31 should've noticed Sisko's scheme and recruited him. In fact, it would've been fun if, at the end of the Bashir episode where Section 31 was introduced, Sisko had dropped a subtle hint that he not only knew about it, but was a member of it.
"Because I _can_ live with it" I love how he is trying to convince himself of that
Throughout the different Trek series there was one continuous message within the various messages of every episode.
That despite the evil that some humans prefer, despite their penchant for pettiness and their horrid habit of self-righteousness, despite (or in fact because) their nature permits them to not only accept but at times rely upon luck, the most illogical concept, humanity is ultimately the most resilient, the most militant, the most egotistical, the most xenophobic but simultaneously one finds the most benevolent, the most humble, the most egalitarian, the most hopeful, all within the same species.
This was the greatest dream, that humanity might struggle out of its dark age into an enlightened state. And the fact that this dream came from a man who cheated on his wife, who drank too much alcohol, who was known back stage for his sexism, really only further makes the point: Despite all of the evils that humanity gives into, there is within them still the possibility to become much better creatures.
That is the real message of Star Trek. HOPE for humanity.
And how much of that hope is a fools dream? Humans don’t learn from their past unless they themselves live through and experience the painful lessons and consequences of their own pettiness and selfishness. That is why history continually repeats itself forevermore because later generations have to go through the whole process over and over again that older generations did to reach enlightenment (if they even get there). Roddenberry had a nice dream, but it is just a dream and will always be till the end of time. The more things change the more they stay the same.
FAR BEYOND THE STARS was one of the most powerful DS9 episodes ever. Not only was it a chance to see the cast who play aliens with their real faces, but the content of the story was unlike any other episode before and since. Needless to say we saw Avery Brooks' acting range chew up the scene and spit it out like a ball of fire from the devil himself. I could feel his emotion breaking the screen barrier nd entering my room. My father is an emotionally powerful man who, while passionate, loving and extremely tolerant, wept a little when we first saw this episode.
"Computer.... Erase that entire personal log" Genius episode and acting by Andrew Robinson (Garak) and Avery Brooks (Ben Sisko) throughout that scene and every scene they're together
DS9 is one of those shows that once you watch it all the way through...you know you're not getting anything like it for at least another hundred years.
Avery Brooks should have been awarded a lifetime achievement award for "In the Pale Moonlight" alone. That episode left me in shock for at least an hour after I finished watching it. Holy crap the actions he had to live with in his head. That is just crazy.
this is very well done, I also like the scene between Garak and Quark talking about Root Beer.
pattimcb31 it’s insidious.
@@Meinfuhrerhoffman Just like the Federation.
That's a great scene
'its not your fault that things are the way they are."
"Everybody tells themselves that...and nothing ever changes.." can't remember which episode from DS9 but seriously.. to quote that, even in fiction is an understatement to what reality is today.
"Past Tense" (part 1 or 2 not sure). An episode that seemed unremarkable when I first saw it but is now SHOCKINGLY relevant with rising inequality, "the 47%", etc.
I can't agree with it, it is not the fault of anyone but those in power, you don't have to accept the blame for it if you have done all you can as an hour individual
It's not anyone's fault that things are bad. It's _everyone's_ fault that they don't stand up and do something about it.
@@CharlesUrban Exactly!! If we just got together and actually tried to get a societal problem solved, we would solve it. Granted, you'll never get the full 100% with you, but you rarely need the full 100% to make a significant impact at least.
Far Beyond the Stars is one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek period. It feels like a Twilight zone episode. It's just good sci-fi.
Some honourable mentions for me are Nog opening his heart and admitting he's afraid to die to Vic Fontain in It's Only a Paper Moon, Old Jake Sisko talking to his father before his death at the End of the Visitor, and Jake Sisko talking to his father at the end of Nor the Battle to the Strong.
Great scenes. I would add the one where Kira and Whorf are disagreeing with Chief O'Brian and Odo. Kira: "That's the thing about faith, if you have it, no proof is necessary and if you don't, no proof will do." Very wise words. But this show always had great lines written for it.
I agree. This show doesn't blend other cultures into one ideal. It focuses on multiple cultures, almost contrasting. You have the Federation, the Bajorens, and the Cardasians, etc. Its not uniform
@ZoneFighter1 True faith may be rooted in wisdom, but it is not rooted in knowledge. For knowledge requires a level of proof to prove that it is knowledge. Wisdom does not. And it is quite possible to have faith without wisdom, (extremists of all religions), or wisdom without faith, (plenty of atheists are wise.)
It's also what makes people with faith so dangerous and so cruel to those who disagree.
@@nelsonchereta816 You are correct ,Sir. And i wish you weren't.
The final scenes of "Duet" need to be added to this list.
Duet is one of my favorite episodes of television ever! The first time I watched DS9, I liked it, but I was on the fence. Then I watched Duet, and I realize how special the show was. That episode blows me away and sometimes makes me cry when I watch it! I've seen the show in it's entirety three times and individual episodes countless. Duet is one of those episodes that I've watched a countless amount of times.
Duet was a great episode
@@johnblack3204 That's how I was. I watched TNG, and although there were some good episodes, a lot of them and the characters acted so cringey. After Duet, I saw DS9 was going to be something special.
13:07 might be one of my favorite moments in the series. There is so much in that second where Sisko looks at the glass then puts it down. You just know that at some point, Damar had a similar tipping point and gave in, drowning his sorrows.
Quark was always my favourite but now I'm beginning to realise just how good Garak was.
I am pondering a rewatch of the whole series, something I have never done before for any show.
When DS9 first started i was like 'Meh' with Sisko but as the show went on I realized what a great dramatic actor Avery Brooks was
DS9 didnt get good till Sisko shaved his head and got pissed off in season 3
I actually don't think it was Sisko that carried the show, but rather the other characters especially secondary ones like Garak.
TNG was the Picard and Data show. TOS was Kirk, Spock and McCoy. ENT Archer T'Pol and Trip. Voyager Janeway & Seven.
DS9 was an ensemble. In the truest sense. And that's one of the main reasons it was the best Trek. There were 10+ characters who had interesting arcs over the course of 7 seasons.
DS9 was the last great "network" show imo
Andrew Thorne It's the beard the samething happened with Riker once he got the beard shit got real and the show started to get better.
Mick Haggs Don't forget about the EMH in Voyager. He was great.
Also. Remember that episode when Sisko's father asked Why there wasn't enough space in space for all the different species? Love DS9! So deep!
What a brilliant show this is.
All the stories are still so close to everyday life and the human condition.
Love this show.
This is why I love watching StarTrek, actors/actresses who pour their soul into a character and make you feel/believe they are that person talking to you right that instant !
That was definitely the point that absolutely sunk it for me, that DS9 was the best Star Trek series of the lot. And I didn't even realize how long they built toward it, till this video, the various points where you see Sisko's hardening resolve, such as his rant to Kira that Earth was the problem, precisely BECAUSE it was paradise, and they didn't have to make the hard decisions, and Quark's speech to Nog, about how far humans can go if they've been pushed long enough and hard enough.
Or, as a by-then long dead Andorian once said: "Don't push the pink skins to the thin ice"
You missed a couple of good ones:
When Quark was talking to Sisko about the differences between Humans and Ferengi.
When Kira and the guy pretending to be Gul Darheel were talking about war crimes.
Sisko poisoning a Maquis colony with him announcing to Eddington that he is going to poison every Maquis colony.
Garak (on psychotropic drugs) and O'Brien sparing over Federation decency. Quark and Garak talking about their salvation with the Federation (aka. the Root Beer scene).
Garak torturing Odo.
O'Brien getting arrested and later put on trial by the Cardassians.
(I just thought Id add to your list)
yes Alexia holy shit. Kor's final battle was my 2nd favorite episode after Beyond the Stars.
"the guy pretending to be Gul Darheel "-- That was early on in the series during a time when people misremember that the series hadn't gotten good yet. That one rivals the infamous "there are four lights" scene in TNG to me
"What you call genocide, I call a day's work." Imagine that coming from someone that really was a war criminal and said it all seriousness.
‘Who wept like a woman, under his bunk because he couldn’t stand the cries of the bajoran laborers. *Breaks down*.’
Absolutely and unequivocally one of the finest shows ever made. The reason for this is the depth of character development and how they use that to advance the show.
Odo: Starts off as a curmudgeon. Though he is one, he has deep emotions and a craving for justice so pure that even the cardassians respected him.
He ends up knowing that justice does not equate to good. He ends up knowing that friendship has a tremendously deep value. He ends up understanding what love means. He ends up treasuring compassion. He ends up caring for everyone - even quark.
Quark: Starts off a typical ferengi. Moved only by greed, lust, revenge, and profit. An absolute sexist against women's rights. He ends up being a champion for those in need. He puts aside his greed to help people. He even pretends to be a woman to try to push women's rights. He might not be courageous like the others, but he is very brave when he needs to be. He becomes loyal to death, and someone well respected.
Sisco: He starts off as a typical federation officer - though he is better with nuance than most. He is not religious in any real way. He ends up embracing his role as a prophet and religious icon and accepts the role for the betterment of an entire people, though plagued by doubt.
Garrack: Starts off as a leftover sleeper assessing of the cardassian order who was banished. He ends up being a (mostly) trustworthy fellow. He was willing to die to kill the shapeshifters in order to save the alpha quadrant even though it was underhanded. When captured by the Djem Hadar, he braved his phobia of closed spaces and worked on a transmitter in the wall. He became a person who valued other people, despite being incredibly deadly. He developed principles, despite being an assassin.
Kira: She fell for handsome religious bajorans like a slinky down stairs. She ends up realizing that she loves Odo, despite him not being bajoran, or even completely humanoid. She grows very much as a person as well, coming to terms with the fact that good Cardassians do in fact exist.
I could go on, but do I need to? One of the greatest concepts ever put onto film.
Well put
Avery Brooks may be the best actor to ever perform in a television Science Fiction program.
He is a great actor. I do give Patrick Stewart a lot of credit as well, also Brendan Spiner is a fantastic actor when allowed to flex said acting chops.
Babylon 5 says that that person is Peter Jurasik.
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leads into
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ends with
th-cam.com/video/47DfQcHMYLY/w-d-xo.html
The greatest tale of revenge ever told.
@@ayanithtalreign Both are wonderful, but Brooks’ performance stands out more in a Star Trek show because of the lack of competition. The actors in Babylon 5 are all so good it’s tougher to pick just one.
Especially if you meet Avery in person you realize how different he is from Sisko
@@timmooney6910 I would not say that, unless you are comparing it to OTHER shows. Did you ever do that thing with your friends when the subject was 'If you could dispose of one character, which would it be?' The Next Gen. was quite easy - get rid of Wes, Troi and even Riker. DS9, NO character could be eliminated. Even the second tier characters were essential.
Great choices.
I would have also included that moment in...I can't remember which episode, but Quark and Garak are having a conversation in his bar and Quark pours Garak a root beer and tells him to drink it. Garak is disgusted with the sweet taste and Quark compares it to the Federation - it's sweet, sickly and insidious, and you eventually develop a taste for it. It was a great little conversation that wasn't really central to the plot of the episode but it spoke volumes about an alien's view of the utopia that is the Federation.
This very same trope was played when Senator Vreenak was changing mind on quality of replicted Romulan Ale, subtly hinting to quality of Sisko's arguments.
I think that was "Way of the warrior" season 4 premiere
Thats the episode where the defiant take a hit by a torpedo that doesn't explode
In the Pale Moonlight is one of the best episodes of all TV ever.
This is exactly why DS9 has always been my favorite series of Star Trek. It really gave Avery a chance to show his amazing abilities at not only acting, but he also got to sing and he has some pipes.
"In the Plain Moonlight" is not only one of the greatest episodes of Star Trek, it's easily one of the greatest episodes in the history of television.
Best scene for me is when Rom confronts Quark about rigging Nog's entrance test into Starfleet and basically tells him he cares more than anything about his son's success and happiness
Avery Brooks' delivery of the line "I'm a human being dammit" sends absolute CHILLS down my spine. No other line uttered by no other black actor has EVER made me feel the overall pain of black people than that one. Ever.
you would see that yaburu made a valuble comment.
It was more than likely the pain of that era, for sure. But that is not how things are now. As long as you keep that in mind, the impact of the scene is truly exceptional.
Pertinent to the relevant time period it was spot on in his anger and rage. Well acted and portrayed in mho. Stars was a pretty good episode
On the whole, I utterly despised that entire arc. While the acting was on point, a few moments were good, the arc on the whole was beneath them. Personally, I prefer my entertainment without political lecturing. DS9 was usually great about keeping it's politics internal to the universe it was set in. The times it did not are some of the worst moments in the franchise. That is not to say it couldn't still speak to the human condition. That past clip was masterful. Sure, it spoke to the human condition but it wasn't "about" that. It was about one man's descent into darkness and the forboding shadow of a moral battle to keep himself from being corrupted by a culture of war. So. Many. Layers. ...not the on-the-nose politics of racial propaganda.
@papish drunk
Sure mate, even though you agressively push marxist tenets like some imaginary 'societal discrimination' (he's not a white male homosexual, so fuck off, there is no such discrimination) and you push how SJW pandering in Star Trek is somehow a correct answer to this imaginary problem.
And why do you use bullshit words that are exclusive to marxists, such as 'bourgeois'?
Oh and of course the typical marxist viewpoint that I don't immediatly bow and kowtow to your ideology, therefore I as a normal person am "part of the problem".
Typical marxist 'us vs them' rhetoric.
"I feel sorry for the jem'hadar.." Yikes...
Jem'hadar
Thank you for the correction.
No probs, it's a weird name
Nog said it. We're a species that hunts animals for sport. If Starfleet ever really stopped being intimidated by the Jem'Hadar, the Klingons would have been merciful by comparison to some of the cruelties that Homo sapiens would have inflicted on them, and the Founders.
And honestly, would Section 31 have been in the wrong? The Founders official policy was to dominate or to destroy any and all sentient solid life forms they encountered. There's no reason to think they'd honor in the long term any treaty they signed with a species that was such an existential danger.
Sisko is my favorite Starfleet CO. DS9 had the best writing of any of the Treks.
'In the Pale Moonlight' is my favorite episode. The ending scene with Garak easily shoves aside his other efforts. Absolute masterstroke in the manipulation of a foreign power to bring them to war against his enemy. The Obsidian Order lost a great leader when Tain dumped him.
In the Pale Moonlight is such a fucking great episode; absolutely fantastic to re-watch, every time.
This is why DS9 is so underrated. This is sci-fi as a mirror to current reality. To make us think..
I once said that SF is at its best when it can accurately reflect reality without sugar coating.
I wish I would've appreciated DS9 as a child. It took me growing up and rewatching it to understand how good the writing and acting was.
The episodes after AR-558 that dealt with Nog’s PTSD were great too.
Also, _”Plain, Simple Garak”_ might be my favorite supporting character in all of Trek.