Awesome to see someone producing these! Once youve forked out serious cash for a FD makes so much sense to spend a little extra to get a dedicated board which minimises the shortcomings.
Awesome. Well done. That looks superb. I’m still happy tinkering with my DIY set up and have another board in production with internal components but this looks fantastic for those going with foil drive. Great job 👍
Thanks James, it's good fun cracking all this stuff open. Lee and I are also working on a side project that you probably heard about - more along the lines of what you have done. It's going to be fun seeing how that turns out!
Ive ordered my FD Gen 2! It arrives next week. I cant wait. Ill start out on my wing board, and see where we go from there. My next board will definitely be inset. I live in Cape Town and will be chatting about this to my mate Clinton from AK | Airush this evening. Thanks for pioneering this. 🤙🏻
Sweet. Cape town will be an awesome spot for this - so many spots. Should keep the toothie creatures away too ;-) Clinton and I have already been chatting.. 🙂
Received my Foil Drive and took it for my first flat water session today. It works perfectly! I used it with Clintons AK Nomad 55L 5’8” and AK Tracer 1300. 78cm ak taper lock mast, 20cm cable. I cant wait to take it into the ocean! Ive ordered my own 55L Nomad and some Plasma foils and plan to recess the battery as you have done. 👍
@@ktwo-surfwhat are your thoughts on the Nolimitz x Foil Drive integrated mast? I’m thinking of machining a doodad adapter to fit between the NoLimitz V2 Takuma 3 bolt adapter and my AK taper lock fuselage. It seems a pity to go to the effort of insetting the battery but then still have the drag of the cable taped to the mast.
For everyone else's benefit, Martin here is one of the friends who bribed me to make him one after our surf trip to Ireland. That's my foot on the hull of his brand new board 😆
Thank you for sharing. I wonder what motor position (15cm , 20cm, 25cm) you use on these inset boards? Can you share your thoughts on motor position when insetting the Foildrive Max? Also, if you could share your thoughts on mast length as it relates to insetting the Foildrive. Thanks in advance.
I use a 20cm motor, but when you inset the drive - it becomes 15... Listening to the awsi chat it seems that the advice for all the brands building masts that are bespoke fd units (for normal boards) the sweet spot is 17cm. with inset this will drop to 12cm. It's a big conversation - motor height, and more complicated when inset. The thing is though - the closer to the board you can get the motor the better when gliding - when under power too as long as it doesn't cavitate all the time... Looking forward to having a system that I can adjust to tune this in...
Anti-cavitation plate - (all outboards have them), set into a fairing to aid the water flow around the cable. Quietens the prop and stops those cavitation surges you get when the prop gets too close to the surface.. Makes a difference, not a massive one, but a difference...
I really like your innovations and love to tinker myself. Also a recent FD rider who sees it as a game changer for many landscapes. One question: Do you have concerns for battery heat and not being able to dissipate when surrounded by foam. Or perhaps there is sufficient space and constant water flushing? I'm SO tempted to take a router to a board!
Warm up the router my friend. I dont have an issue with the battery - when you gun it the drive is in the water and cooled by the water - as soon as you are up and the case is in the air - you are pottering on 60%. The battery is a bit warmer than charging but not by much... No reliability issues in 50-60 batteries cycles yet... I chopped into a 25lt (4'x17") phazer just before this weekend to see if I could get it up - rocker not ideal and the board is tiny. It worked. Smaller boards are pretty immense to ride. I found a new rocker on one of our development boards that is a massive step forward, so that will help us bring the size down further. With regards to boards - this foil assist genre is completely different to normal board needs and wants. Closer to high level prone than wing I'd say.
@@rnetsch you could fill in the voids with foam and attach with velcro, we tried, but it's a faff. ultimately thinner battery, thinner box, better handling - we are working on a custom setup that has the components built into the board. Hopefully weight will drop, battery energy density is better with cutting edge cells, I would like to get the board as thin as a single row of molicell, but it's a packaging headache :-/
@@ktwo-surf curious on your AK Phaser...I happen to have the 65ltr 5-2 (for wing) and have been using it for FD. It's good! Thinking the 47ltr 5-0 would be better tho, esp with less width. Any chance you've ridden that one?
I'm doing something similar. How do you water proof the insert area? It's it closed cell foam so you don't have to? Also how are you securing the bolts to the board so they don't come lose over time?
The inserts are bonded in, so they don't come loose, but the threaded bar that I use is removable from the insert and if you don't put it in tight it does unscrew every time - thread lock sorts that. The core of all my boards is eps, so it's sealed with a 3mm layer of pvc and then glassed over, then sealed again. Reception perfect and totally sealed -
What an ingenious solution. How do I buy two of them? Looking for a prone board to DW and something to prone with. I have an integrated mast. Will it work the same? What size board do you recommend for DW and prone. I am 5-10 180 pounds. So stoked to get a couple of these
Thanks for the kind words. Will work even better with an integrated mast, I'm going down that route myself when I can.. DW and prone - A question I ask myself - what would be the advantage of having the drive on a DW board over a small prone board for DW? I guess only if you wanted to paddle home in emergency? Otherwise you only need a prone board, no? mike@ktwo.surf if you are interested in a board - next production window we have is august.
Tried to reply but don’t think it went through. I would like to order one of these board How much is the cost delivered to Huntington Beach CA? Is it only one side available? If so fine. What size you recommend?
True. All masts use a 90mm spacing between the tracks, but different brands use different distances between the front and rear. Lift for example is 165x90, AK 160x90, and axis I think is also 165x90. One of these boards in the vid was made for Lift and so we set the inserts at 165x90. Putting tracks in just addto the thickness of the things, which defeats the object of making them thin.. If you ordered one - you'd have a fair bit to specify - foil spacing - weight vs finish, preferred graphics, pads, strap inserts etc...
Do you think the drag reduction from insetting would allow one to ride a smaller foil on the same board? I currently have a F-One Rocket Surf 36L 5’x20”x3” with a flatish rocker. It is nice to ride with my 1300 Tracer but I cant flat water start my 1030 Tracer. Will insetting allow me to flat water start the 1030? By the way, Clintons pre production AK Nomad 46L 5’5x19”x3.6” does flat water start with my 1030 foil and rides nicely! But i have to wait a few months before stock arrives… so i’m tempted to router the F-One. Would you mind sharing more technical details on what you do to secure your mast bolts inside the inset
smaller foil on the same board, hmm, I think the design of the board is 90% of that equation, the inset drag reduction only around 10%. We have been prototyping a lot of boards and we have found a recipe that brings crazy starting potential on TINY boards (4'8x18" on a small foil - plasma 880 - easy at 80kg) Clinton has all the details of my latest board - buy him a beer ;-) I'll get a vid up in a week or two with the two latest boards..
Maybe you are unaware that for the price of a foildrive unit, you could buy the board you want, build an equivalent system with of the shelf components, and place the battery box inside the board, resulting, in my opinion, in a better system overall and you would still save lots of money in the end.
Hi Rich - send me a mail; mike@ktwo.surf the inserts in the inset are bonded in one position - so you have to keep it in one place - after all the inset doesn't want to be so big you have inch long gaps in either end.. inserts are placed according to your mast heads - most are 165x90, some smaller, some larger, but all 90mm apart.
The tracks really should go out the back for easy slide in or out and ability to run battery backwards. Also widen the cutout so you can get at the latches and pull battery out without having to take unit off. Well done on explanation!
Sorry, have to disagree. For me - massive handling gains to keep the board thin - tracks add a huge amount of deck thickness. My new boards are 4mm between deck and top of the FD box, adding to this incrementally destroys handling. Mounting the drive backwards destroys the weight balance and causes cable chaos..
You're the most eloquent and thorough explanatory on the Web.. Thanks
I love the R&D. One of the best things about foiling is all the cool people involved in moving the sport forward.
Awesome to see someone producing these! Once youve forked out serious cash for a FD makes so much sense to spend a little extra to get a dedicated board which minimises the shortcomings.
Excellent information
Great idea & kudos to you for going through all the design and modifications work, to get great results.🧐👍🏻
Awesome. Well done. That looks superb. I’m still happy tinkering with my DIY set up and have another board in production with internal components but this looks fantastic for those going with foil drive. Great job 👍
Thanks James, it's good fun cracking all this stuff open. Lee and I are also working on a side project that you probably heard about - more along the lines of what you have done. It's going to be fun seeing how that turns out!
So cool! Nice work
Ive ordered my FD Gen 2! It arrives next week. I cant wait. Ill start out on my wing board, and see where we go from there. My next board will definitely be inset. I live in Cape Town and will be chatting about this to my mate Clinton from AK | Airush this evening. Thanks for pioneering this. 🤙🏻
Sweet. Cape town will be an awesome spot for this - so many spots. Should keep the toothie creatures away too ;-)
Clinton and I have already been chatting.. 🙂
Received my Foil Drive and took it for my first flat water session today. It works perfectly! I used it with Clintons AK Nomad 55L 5’8” and AK Tracer 1300. 78cm ak taper lock mast, 20cm cable.
I cant wait to take it into the ocean!
Ive ordered my own 55L Nomad and some Plasma foils and plan to recess the battery as you have done. 👍
@@haldanemartin3642 good on you. Warm up the router 🙂
I just routed a box in a 25lt phazer to see if it would work and it's crazy when up.
@@ktwo-surfwhat are your thoughts on the Nolimitz x Foil Drive integrated mast? I’m thinking of machining a doodad adapter to fit between the NoLimitz V2 Takuma 3 bolt adapter and my AK taper lock fuselage. It seems a pity to go to the effort of insetting the battery but then still have the drag of the cable taped to the mast.
@@ktwo-surf and another question on mast length and motor position. what length mast and motor height so you run? thanks!
Great innovation nice video well presented 😊
I’ll take it … that exact same one you are demoing!!! 😊
For everyone else's benefit, Martin here is one of the friends who bribed me to make him one after our surf trip to Ireland. That's my foot on the hull of his brand new board 😆
Thank you for sharing. I wonder what motor position (15cm , 20cm, 25cm) you use on these inset boards? Can you share your thoughts on motor position when insetting the Foildrive Max? Also, if you could share your thoughts on mast length as it relates to insetting the Foildrive. Thanks in advance.
I use a 20cm motor, but when you inset the drive - it becomes 15...
Listening to the awsi chat it seems that the advice for all the brands building masts that are bespoke fd units (for normal boards) the sweet spot is 17cm.
with inset this will drop to 12cm.
It's a big conversation - motor height, and more complicated when inset. The thing is though - the closer to the board you can get the motor the better when gliding - when under power too as long as it doesn't cavitate all the time... Looking forward to having a system that I can adjust to tune this in...
Thats amazing. What is that little fin thing 5cm from your propeller?
Anti-cavitation plate - (all outboards have them), set into a fairing to aid the water flow around the cable.
Quietens the prop and stops those cavitation surges you get when the prop gets too close to the surface..
Makes a difference, not a massive one, but a difference...
@@ktwo-surfdude, you rock!
@@ktwo-surf how it’s done ? I can’t use my FD , prop keep catching air , 20sm cable , it’s happening In rough water .. 😢
I really like your innovations and love to tinker myself. Also a recent FD rider who sees it as a game changer for many landscapes. One question: Do you have concerns for battery heat and not being able to dissipate when surrounded by foam. Or perhaps there is sufficient space and constant water flushing? I'm SO tempted to take a router to a board!
Warm up the router my friend.
I dont have an issue with the battery - when you gun it the drive is in the water and cooled by the water - as soon as you are up and the case is in the air - you are pottering on 60%. The battery is a bit warmer than charging but not by much... No reliability issues in 50-60 batteries cycles yet...
I chopped into a 25lt (4'x17") phazer just before this weekend to see if I could get it up - rocker not ideal and the board is tiny. It worked. Smaller boards are pretty immense to ride.
I found a new rocker on one of our development boards that is a massive step forward, so that will help us bring the size down further. With regards to boards - this foil assist genre is completely different to normal board needs and wants. Closer to high level prone than wing I'd say.
@@ktwo-surf love it..thanks for input. let the routing begin!
ps - any thoughts on creation of blunt nose cone?
@@rnetsch you could fill in the voids with foam and attach with velcro, we tried, but it's a faff.
ultimately thinner battery, thinner box, better handling -
we are working on a custom setup that has the components built into the board. Hopefully weight will drop, battery energy density is better with cutting edge cells,
I would like to get the board as thin as a single row of molicell, but it's a packaging headache :-/
@@ktwo-surf curious on your AK Phaser...I happen to have the 65ltr 5-2 (for wing) and have been using it for FD. It's good! Thinking the 47ltr 5-0 would be better tho, esp with less width. Any chance you've ridden that one?
next innovation could be putting the foil drive above the front wing to make it pumpable
Hi,
Been looking for a board to go with my new fd. This looks amazing.
Any still available?
I'm doing something similar. How do you water proof the insert area? It's it closed cell foam so you don't have to? Also how are you securing the bolts to the board so they don't come lose over time?
The inserts are bonded in, so they don't come loose, but the threaded bar that I use is removable from the insert and if you don't put it in tight it does unscrew every time - thread lock sorts that.
The core of all my boards is eps, so it's sealed with a 3mm layer of pvc and then glassed over, then sealed again. Reception perfect and totally sealed -
What an ingenious solution. How do I buy two of them? Looking for a prone board to DW and something to prone with. I have an integrated mast. Will it work the same?
What size board do you recommend for DW and prone. I am 5-10 180 pounds. So stoked to get a couple of these
Thanks for the kind words. Will work even better with an integrated mast, I'm going down that route myself when I can..
DW and prone - A question I ask myself - what would be the advantage of having the drive on a DW board over a small prone board for DW?
I guess only if you wanted to paddle home in emergency? Otherwise you only need a prone board, no?
mike@ktwo.surf if you are interested in a board - next production window we have is august.
Tried to reply but don’t think it went through.
I would like to order one of these board
How much is the cost delivered to Huntington Beach CA?
Is it only one side available? If so fine. What size you recommend?
@@WesternStatesMetalRoofing Think the mail is here - should have a reply in your inbox?
When ordering, one mentions the mast he's going to use in order to get the 4 screews placed accordingly?
True. All masts use a 90mm spacing between the tracks, but different brands use different distances between the front and rear. Lift for example is 165x90, AK 160x90, and axis I think is also 165x90.
One of these boards in the vid was made for Lift and so we set the inserts at 165x90.
Putting tracks in just addto the thickness of the things, which defeats the object of making them thin..
If you ordered one - you'd have a fair bit to specify - foil spacing - weight vs finish, preferred graphics, pads, strap inserts etc...
@@ktwo-surf Amazing answer. Let me save up a little more money after purchasing the gen2 a couple days back. GREAT product!!
Do you think the drag reduction from insetting would allow one to ride a smaller foil on the same board?
I currently have a F-One Rocket Surf 36L 5’x20”x3” with a flatish rocker. It is nice to ride with my 1300 Tracer but I cant flat water start my 1030 Tracer. Will insetting allow me to flat water start the 1030?
By the way, Clintons pre production AK Nomad 46L 5’5x19”x3.6” does flat water start with my 1030 foil and rides nicely! But i have to wait a few months before stock arrives… so i’m tempted to router the F-One.
Would you mind sharing more technical details on what you do to secure your mast bolts inside the inset
smaller foil on the same board, hmm, I think the design of the board is 90% of that equation, the inset drag reduction only around 10%. We have been prototyping a lot of boards and we have found a recipe that brings crazy starting potential on TINY boards (4'8x18" on a small foil - plasma 880 - easy at 80kg)
Clinton has all the details of my latest board - buy him a beer ;-)
I'll get a vid up in a week or two with the two latest boards..
Maybe you are unaware that for the price of a foildrive unit, you could buy the board you want, build an equivalent system with of the shelf components, and place the battery box inside the board, resulting, in my opinion, in a better system overall and you would still save lots of money in the end.
well aware... and that is another side project ;-)
I am interested .. how do you adjust the mast placement? Seems it’s not adjustable ? Please contact me …
Hi Rich - send me a mail;
mike@ktwo.surf
the inserts in the inset are bonded in one position - so you have to keep it in one place - after all the inset doesn't want to be so big you have inch long gaps in either end..
inserts are placed according to your mast heads - most are 165x90, some smaller, some larger, but all 90mm apart.
I’ve emailed and I want one so let me know where to send my deposit
not sure if I got the mail sir.
I'm a week or so releasing the next vid with the next gen boards, so you'd probably be best to wait for that!
@@ktwo-surf thanks I’ll do that. Meanwhile I sent you a reply to your email to me.
The tracks really should go out the back for easy slide in or out and ability to run battery backwards. Also widen the cutout so you can get at the latches and pull battery out without having to take unit off. Well done on explanation!
Sorry, have to disagree. For me - massive handling gains to keep the board thin - tracks add a huge amount of deck thickness. My new boards are 4mm between deck and top of the FD box, adding to this incrementally destroys handling.
Mounting the drive backwards destroys the weight balance and causes cable chaos..
How to contact you to order?
mike@ktwo.surf
This seems more like a sport for an engineer type