Amazing video as always. Can you do Part 2 of how this Italy would affect Europa 1850-1945. Would Italy develop a defense network along its borders from Alps to Balkan from fears of the Napoleonic France and Austrian and Prussian aggression to its neighbors? Would they side with the Anglo-French alliance of World War 1 against the Austria-Hungary and Spanish and Prussian aggression In WW2 would Italy Side with the Allies out of Fear of the Nazi and Communist Ideology and Conquest. Does the Italian Monarchy become a Constitutional Monarchy. And does the Papacy still form a Sovereign Vatican City.
8:47 About San Marino it should be noted that before the Congress of Vienna it was only recognized as an Independent entity by the Pope, for the Milanese, now Italian prespective, it would bee only a small commune like any other with a tradition of tax exempions which they have all the power to stop, even though it would mean going against the words of a Saint. San Marino would also be much smaller and compraise only the city on the Titano itself as the territory they hold to this day was awarded by the Pope to them in 1463, some decades after the Milanese conquest of the area
19:32 There have been a few theories already suggesting the Portuguese discovered America first, but were indifferent as they already had a land root to Asia; I thought this would be interesting to point out Regardless, extremely epic video, I enjoy Italy scenarios a lot! Also small question, did you model the HI logo?
@@mr.battledroid2195 In 1424 Zuane Pizzigano had islands labeled as "Antillia" which is debated to either be, a ship that flew off course and discovered the land which the Portuguese added, or just as a reference to the myth of the island of Antillia and the lost seven cities.
@@bulletghost3452 the portrayals of antillia in Zuane's maps just prove it was pure fantasy, and if i had not been fantasy, it would still not have been discovered by portugal because discovering is revealing something to the world, not just finding something and forgetting about it
I think that more than talking about italy unifing sooner, an interesting scenario would be the survival of it’s kingdom (or indipendence) from the Ottonians. It’s hard to make it work just as much as the unyfing idea given how unstable the kingdom was
Completly agree on this The Post Carolingian world offers countless unexplored possibilities, and expecialy influential taking into account the fact that after the Death of Lothair I the Imperial Crown was Linked with the rule of the Italian Kingdom
16:12 Conquering the Magreb mediterranean coasts would end piracy in the western part of the sea. This by itself could change a lot both Italy and Spain (along with the conquered north african lands) considering the great losses in money from raids and the costs of paying to bring back home the christian slaves(~1,000,000 slaves in the 16th century). The economy and demography here could have interesting results in later developments
Don't know if you've already covered this in the previous or another video but would you consider a what if with the norman kingdom of Sicily as the unifier? I think it was Benedetto Croce stated that, had the kingdom survived it could have managed something of the sort
awesome video! personally, i feel it'd be more interesting and maybe realistic if italy didn't have such an easy time consolidating, as their local power holders would have far more political clout, and unlike in the rest of europe, would have a long term source of income after feudalism dies out. that combined with france, the holy roman empire, spain, the papacy, and perhaps even the ottomans having conflicts of interest and territory with them, i imagine their history would become very volatile. lots of rapidly shifting alliances, intense wars, perhaps changes in government organization.. like our universe's imperial germany, italy would be an aberration from europe's preferred balance of power, only sustained by the equally controversial amount of economic might they wield. and then of course, europe overall could be more inwardly focused due to this rivalry, maybe becoming weaker and colonizing less... but then britain would...- maybe ill make something and post it on your discord (-:
15:19 A marriage between the two Catholic Monarchs can be argued to not happen, since Aragon is weaker Isabella might want to go for João of Portugal instead. But on the other hand Aragon is still good for unifiying the Trastamaras and Castille would be a slightly more dominant position in the relationship then if they united with Portugal 15:46 I haven't watched the video (I will after, all your videos I've watched have been good so far), but I'm assuming we see an even more rapid French expansion into the HRE which I do wonder how Italy would react to ITTL 16:22 Portugal might've been a better candidate for all that land in Morocco, they tried for decades and almost succeeded had Nuno Fernandes de Ataide and Yahya Ben Tahfuft, two very capable generals in the Portuguese employ, not died off 16:45 I don't know about that, we're talking about being held for about 300-350 years, at least some very strong Latin influence in the Maghrebi Language and much more minor Arabic influence (spoken a lot less back then) could occur. Berber was the dominant language in the region up until the recent couple of centuries As for American Colonization, could be interesting since England was actually interested around the same time too but were disincentivized to head further south because of the Spanish Caribbean, they could follow the current south and start a colony in Florida instead like the French did OTL. Spain could land anywhere else too, maybe a more southern Spanish Empire? Especially if they inherit Portugal down the line with a Miguel da Paz situation or a marriage of Juana to Manuel. 21:15 Egypt is very prestigious both because of the Suez and because of its history. A future global war or a conflict similar to the French and English over Sudan, could occur over Egypt
In regards to the first paragraph, I always wanted to see an alt history exploration of what an alternate "Spain" unified by Portugal and Castile would look like. Especially if in this timeline Aragon takes Portugal's place.
On the whole, a lot will depend on their relationship with Spain. A unified Italy who has a friendly relationship with Spain will able to start colonizing outside the Mediterranean & become a truly global power. If their relationship on the other hand is antagonistic, it's highly likely that a unified Italy with their respectable military/navy, will readily jump into the first coalition war to diminish Spanish power, likely attempting to take Gibraltar much like how the British Empire ensure access for their navy. On the other hand, Italy & Austria's relationship will be fundamental to the fate of the Balkans, an alliance between them to carve out the European lands from the Ottomans between themselves would lead to some interesting scenarios & butterfly effects like an earlier liberation of the Balkan nations, perhaps preventing the seeds of sectarian nationalism from taking hold.
i have an idea, what if Italy went protestant (meaning they stay protestant) and was united early (perhaps Florence could be the unifier, but if possible I'd like to know what would happen if they had continued what savoy started in regards to making an efficient government (even if they were doing good enough, there's no reason not to improve where possible) and unified culturally/religiously in the same way that Naples wanted in an attempt to create stronger national unity)
10:16 Vulgar Latin does not exist. If you want to know why, you should check one of Polymath's video titled "Why 'Vulgar Latin' isn't used by linguists anymore?".
The thing is would they get the idea to attempt to reform Rome seeing when the Ottomans take the old Roman Empire. As like Italy tried in WW2, but failed. It might have had a chance in this timeline to reform Rome. Which would disturb the world greatly as Russia tries to claim to be the continuation of Rome due to faith and Rome itself declaring due to the land connection.
Disagree Italy won't be albe conquer northern African the ottomans in land were stronger and spain and progutal were already defeated by Morocco during 1600s it wasn't untill the late hundreds that they manged.
Before the Italian wars in the 1500s Italy was richer than France, Germany and Iberia. An unified Italy would probably be the strongest Catholic nation at that time and would probably even be able to contest some colonies in America
Venice alone was richer than France, Germany, the whole Spanish Empire and the English. A united italy at that time would mop the floor with the Ottomans. The only thing Venice was missing to defeat every invader was manpower, which this new unified Italy would have plenty of. Italy was the most populous region of Europe, had been since the Roman times, the middle ages ect.
Imagine a state with venetian and genoese navy combined, probably the biggest population in the mediterranean region and all the money of church and tuscan bunkers. Italy would crash the ottomans no doubt.
Thank you all for watching, and be sure to join the new Discord server: discord.com/invite/4JZgkvNtjN
I can't join in the discord
Amazing video as always. Can you do Part 2 of how this Italy would affect Europa 1850-1945.
Would Italy develop a defense network along its borders from Alps to Balkan from fears of the Napoleonic France and Austrian and Prussian aggression to its neighbors?
Would they side with the Anglo-French alliance of World War 1 against the Austria-Hungary and Spanish and Prussian aggression
In WW2 would Italy Side with the Allies out of Fear of the Nazi and Communist Ideology and Conquest.
Does the Italian Monarchy become a Constitutional Monarchy. And does the Papacy still form a Sovereign Vatican City.
8:47
About San Marino it should be noted that before the Congress of Vienna it was only recognized as an Independent entity by the Pope, for the Milanese, now Italian prespective, it would bee only a small commune like any other with a tradition of tax exempions which they have all the power to stop, even though it would mean going against the words of a Saint.
San Marino would also be much smaller and compraise only the city on the Titano itself as the territory they hold to this day was awarded by the Pope to them in 1463, some decades after the Milanese conquest of the area
19:32 There have been a few theories already suggesting the Portuguese discovered America first, but were indifferent as they already had a land root to Asia; I thought this would be interesting to point out
Regardless, extremely epic video, I enjoy Italy scenarios a lot!
Also small question, did you model the HI logo?
False
@@mr.battledroid2195 In 1424 Zuane Pizzigano had islands labeled as "Antillia" which is debated to either be, a ship that flew off course and discovered the land which the Portuguese added, or just as a reference to the myth of the island of Antillia and the lost seven cities.
Interesting point. For the logo: I did photoshop "layer masking" for the texture, then made the Logo 3D by repeating it a bunch in Adobe Audition
@@bulletghost3452 the portrayals of antillia in Zuane's maps just prove it was pure fantasy, and if i had not been fantasy, it would still not have been discovered by portugal because discovering is revealing something to the world, not just finding something and forgetting about it
I think that more than talking about italy unifing sooner, an interesting scenario would be the survival of it’s kingdom (or indipendence) from the Ottonians. It’s hard to make it work just as much as the unyfing idea given how unstable the kingdom was
Completly agree on this
The Post Carolingian world offers countless unexplored possibilities, and expecialy influential taking into account the fact that after the Death of Lothair I the Imperial Crown was Linked with the rule of the Italian Kingdom
Been waiting For this! Love your content ❤❤❤❤❤
16:12 Conquering the Magreb mediterranean coasts would end piracy in the western part of the sea. This by itself could change a lot both Italy and Spain (along with the conquered north african lands) considering the great losses in money from raids and the costs of paying to bring back home the christian slaves(~1,000,000 slaves in the 16th century). The economy and demography here could have interesting results in later developments
@1vangm484 those 1M might be sent to the Maghreb instead to populate that region
Don't know if you've already covered this in the previous or another video but would you consider a what if with the norman kingdom of Sicily as the unifier?
I think it was Benedetto Croce stated that, had the kingdom survived it could have managed something of the sort
I could do a video detialing how each italian power could have done it, normans included
awesome video! personally, i feel it'd be more interesting and maybe realistic if italy didn't have such an easy time consolidating, as their local power holders would have far more political clout, and unlike in the rest of europe, would have a long term source of income after feudalism dies out. that combined with france, the holy roman empire, spain, the papacy, and perhaps even the ottomans having conflicts of interest and territory with them, i imagine their history would become very volatile. lots of rapidly shifting alliances, intense wars, perhaps changes in government organization.. like our universe's imperial germany, italy would be an aberration from europe's preferred balance of power, only sustained by the equally controversial amount of economic might they wield. and then of course, europe overall could be more inwardly focused due to this rivalry, maybe becoming weaker and colonizing less... but then britain would...- maybe ill make something and post it on your discord (-:
What if the reconquista kept going into Morocco and the rest of the Maghreb?
This is actually a good idea.
God damn i love your videos man
Great video 😮
YES! SECOND PART🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
15:19 A marriage between the two Catholic Monarchs can be argued to not happen, since Aragon is weaker Isabella might want to go for João of Portugal instead. But on the other hand Aragon is still good for unifiying the Trastamaras and Castille would be a slightly more dominant position in the relationship then if they united with Portugal
15:46 I haven't watched the video (I will after, all your videos I've watched have been good so far), but I'm assuming we see an even more rapid French expansion into the HRE which I do wonder how Italy would react to ITTL
16:22 Portugal might've been a better candidate for all that land in Morocco, they tried for decades and almost succeeded had Nuno Fernandes de Ataide and Yahya Ben Tahfuft, two very capable generals in the Portuguese employ, not died off
16:45 I don't know about that, we're talking about being held for about 300-350 years, at least some very strong Latin influence in the Maghrebi Language and much more minor Arabic influence (spoken a lot less back then) could occur. Berber was the dominant language in the region up until the recent couple of centuries
As for American Colonization, could be interesting since England was actually interested around the same time too but were disincentivized to head further south because of the Spanish Caribbean, they could follow the current south and start a colony in Florida instead like the French did OTL. Spain could land anywhere else too, maybe a more southern Spanish Empire? Especially if they inherit Portugal down the line with a Miguel da Paz situation or a marriage of Juana to Manuel.
21:15 Egypt is very prestigious both because of the Suez and because of its history. A future global war or a conflict similar to the French and English over Sudan, could occur over Egypt
In regards to the first paragraph, I always wanted to see an alt history exploration of what an alternate "Spain" unified by Portugal and Castile would look like. Especially if in this timeline Aragon takes Portugal's place.
On the whole, a lot will depend on their relationship with Spain. A unified Italy who has a friendly relationship with Spain will able to start colonizing outside the Mediterranean & become a truly global power. If their relationship on the other hand is antagonistic, it's highly likely that a unified Italy with their respectable military/navy, will readily jump into the first coalition war to diminish Spanish power, likely attempting to take Gibraltar much like how the British Empire ensure access for their navy.
On the other hand, Italy & Austria's relationship will be fundamental to the fate of the Balkans, an alliance between them to carve out the European lands from the Ottomans between themselves would lead to some interesting scenarios & butterfly effects like an earlier liberation of the Balkan nations, perhaps preventing the seeds of sectarian nationalism from taking hold.
Next part please🤌🏼
i would love an scenario where both North italy and Naples unify via marriage..... just like castile and aragon.
FUCKING HELL YES SECOND PART
i have an idea, what if Italy went protestant (meaning they stay protestant) and was united early (perhaps Florence could be the unifier, but if possible I'd like to know what would happen if they had continued what savoy started in regards to making an efficient government (even if they were doing good enough, there's no reason not to improve where possible) and unified culturally/religiously in the same way that Naples wanted in an attempt to create stronger national unity)
You should have changed the flag of the Savoy dinasty with the coat of arms of the Sforza
Did it on the thumbnail, forgot to adjust it on the slide
10:16 Vulgar Latin does not exist. If you want to know why, you should check one of Polymath's video titled "Why 'Vulgar Latin' isn't used by linguists anymore?".
holy shit a sequel
The thing is would they get the idea to attempt to reform Rome seeing when the Ottomans take the old Roman Empire. As like Italy tried in WW2, but failed. It might have had a chance in this timeline to reform Rome. Which would disturb the world greatly as Russia tries to claim to be the continuation of Rome due to faith and Rome itself declaring due to the land connection.
You completely forgot about Napoleon, I believe he would still have taken power even if he had lived in a unified Italy
5:59 So, they completely relocate to Russia instead?.
Forgot to account for this. Perhaps like in our timeline, they'd given a seat in Rome (and technically remain a sovereign state)
Finally
And whatever happens to now Italian-born Corsican Napoleone di Buonaparte?
If italy unfiied early I would unify it and be ruler and make it rich 😎😎😎
I think Italy would be able to some colonies in the new world, like some of the windward islands, or maybe some African holdings
Che la luna mezzo mare
What if Aliens had invaded Earth during medieval times ?
Mama Mia
Disagree Italy won't be albe conquer northern African the ottomans in land were stronger and spain and progutal were already defeated by Morocco during 1600s it wasn't untill the late hundreds that they manged.
Before the Italian wars in the 1500s Italy was richer than France, Germany and Iberia.
An unified Italy would probably be the strongest Catholic nation at that time and would probably even be able to contest some colonies in America
Venice alone was richer than France, Germany, the whole Spanish Empire and the English.
A united italy at that time would mop the floor with the Ottomans.
The only thing Venice was missing to defeat every invader was manpower, which this new unified Italy would have plenty of. Italy was the most populous region of Europe, had been since the Roman times, the middle ages ect.
If italy has significant naval superiority it's gg, fighting prowess is irrelevant if you can't supply troops effectively
If Italy was actually unified, it would have curbstomped the Ottomans
Imagine a state with venetian and genoese navy combined, probably the biggest population in the mediterranean region and all the money of church and tuscan bunkers. Italy would crash the ottomans no doubt.
Columbus was a Sephardic Jew from the Spanish Mediterranean coast, not genoan btw
😂😂
Spanish propaganda 😂
@an70n10_ its the truth, im sorry but it is, dna tests prove it
Immagina essere ebreo e chiamare tuo figlio Cristoforo