part of outdoor bouldering is crash pad management. if a climb doesn't do much traversing, has a clean landing zone, and is fairly vertical; then you can get away with 1 or 2 pads that stay put the whole time and you can do it "safely" on your own. But when a climb moves you away from your crash pads either because of a traverse or the slope of the climb, then you'll want more pads (one person can only carry so many) or an active spotter/pad manager. When you have a spotter moving pads as you progress through a climb, you can do a whole lot more with just 2 pads. Watching you climb at the first location made me a bit nervous for your safety when you had a few people there who could have been moving pads and spotting your falls. I saw how you learned from the comments on your first lead video, so I'm sure your next outdoor bouldering trip will be much safer. Enjoy those beautiful Glens!
The enjoyment of all outdoor climbing exponentially increases the more regularly you can get out. Love the videos, keep getting out and you'll keep surprising yourself with the progress.
usally the climbs in a guide book are broken up based on the side of the boulder face so to the left would indicate the left side of that face. but if the guide book didnt specify north south east or west side it was poorly written
It's also possible he skipped the intro and just bee-lined to the area. I made that mistake when I first started. Usually, these guidebooks pretty much tell you how to decipher the language in the first chapter. Things like what the stars that mark certain climbs are, how to understand the topography (albeit this one didn't have one), and most importantly, the local rules/regulations/etiquette, which I highly recommend everyone read before going out to an area for the first time. Even if you just go to the shop and flip through that one section, it'll help a lot in the long run.
I remember watching your first climbing video, giving you (a pretty good to my opinion) advice. Let me do it again today: you really lacked a spotter. It would have been more reassuring and safe for you. I freaked out twice in this video. Glad you have not hurt yourself. Keep going!
Yeah I climb consistently "v8-v10" graded shit at the gym and some v4's outdoor have still gone unsent meanwhile I have sent a handful of v7's/v8's that felt way easier than the grade would suggest. Basically, grade means nothing but overall outdoor is harder.
Yeah v6 and beyond is pretty consistent but I believe that 0-5 is so inconsistent because it’s mostly technique, so if your 5’8” on a short compression problem that’s a lower grade, it’s gonna be easier than someone like me who’s 6’3” on the same climb, but v6 and beyond poses more problems that involve technique but also have an ability ceiling
This is true with older outdoor route climbing as well I find. At my relatively local popular crag, where most of the climbs were first sent in like the 60s or 70s, I "joke" that anything under a 5.10 can be arbitrarily any grade up to, and including, 5.10a.
doubly so because many of the people putting routes up or writing guidebooks are very strong climbers and don't really remember what easy grades feel like
I think it's also because the people who tend to make FAs outdoors are usually climbers with 10-15 years of experience, who don't realize how highly developed their forearms and other requisite muscles have become. They make an FA which is, in fact, a complete breeze for them, and grade it V1, not realizing that what is a breeze for them actually still requires a large degree of forearm muscle development. In my experience outdoor V0-2 are the most inconsistent outdoor grades when compared to gym grades.
ignoring grades and just enjoying bouldering is definitely something I am starting to do more. seeing kids on break throw their bodies at the wall and use any hold possible to top out is inspiring
At the time i tried outdoor bouldering for the first time i climbed V6 moonbard benchmarks and supposedly harder stuff at the gym. I was humbled on my first sesh on rocks to a V4/V5 climber. After a couple of sessions i got used to the unique challenges and climbed V7. I am confident you will have a similar experience 😄
For me when I was getting started bouldering on real rock, it helped going with someone who had climbed the area for a long time. He knew the area like the back of his hand and it was basically like getting a guided tour; no confusion about what was considered “on” or “off” on a problem. Certain areas and rock types are a better transition from the gym as well
There are some areas around me that are exceptionally clear - 200m long cliff face with obvious shelves and pockets, and others where I’ve gone 5+ times to areas with over 300 documented routes only to find a dozen low quality climbs. Went to Skyline Albert yesterday and found probably 25 new projects, while Big Choss has given me very little to return for, despite having like 8 pages in the guidebook. Feels pretty obvious that I’m missing something there.
If you have an issue with falling, having a constant spotter to catch your fall, and push you towards the best spot on the crash pad if you do fall is super helpful, it gives you so much more confidence on the rock
>ignores guidebook >climbs whatever he wants with no information >doesn't care about the grade or the climb >climbs in extreme weather (rain and wind) I had my doubts but he actually has the makings of a perfect outdoor climber
Dropped by Block 10 on a recent trip and had an absolute blast. Mentioned I'd heard about the gym from your video and the lady at the front desk said you'd been in earlier that morning. Sad to have missed you, but I had a great time. If I ever return to Dundee, I'll definitely be back. Thanks for introducing me to such a great gym!
Makes me think of my first outdoor bouldering experience. About an hr of bush bashing to get to the boulder ? Not sure if its even the right one , end up making up some climbs . Everything feels extremely sketchy. End up with a few tick bites about 5min in total of "climbing" and some "send" footage so stupid on rewatch it nearly sends you into an existential crisis. It does get better haha
Climbing outdoors is a testament of how all the "other" things in climbing matter so much (breathing, not overgripping, planning, flow, a sense of body awareness, mental game, route reading, etc...) It's always fun to be humbled, and to face a challenge that shuts you down. Don't forget to get back up once you get humbled by a piece of rock.
Stanage Bouldering guide book makes a note on bouldering pads: “pads are encouraged but make the problems easier.” these old school blokes were rolling the dice on breaking ankles or bruised tailbones every day and have the gall to say “you know… you’re doing it soft, if you want a real challenge, don’t use pads”
I live in southern California and the crags around are notorious for being sandbagged and having a lot of highballs, you've got boulders taller than 20ft that some blokes climbed in the 70's and 80's with a small piece of carpet to rub the dirt off what we could hardly call climbing shoes. I have a massive amount of respect for the old heads that really did throw caution to the wind to climb some silly rocks.
I think you would have a good time travelling to a bouldering destination. climbing obscure local problems is great with good knowledge and lots of good communication within the community, but not the best way to intro yourself. Jump across the pond and visit Fontainbleau!
Building good landings is for sure a science of its own and definitely worth learning (holes between pads are just great for breaking your ankles, you need to cover them). Having a good spotter who knows what they're doing is also a must especially with sketchy landings (redirecting your fall). Climbing over Fontainebleau's soft sandy ground is totally different from a steep, risky, sharp rock littered terrain of magic wood for example.
The biggest difference I find is in route reading. Reading boulders in a gym is easy because the holds are bright pink and you already know what each hold feels like. Outside gives you no such luxury so it just takes time to learn a climb
Hey Mike, just so you know for next time, in a "sit-start" you are supposed to sit (have your butt touch the ground) and then lift off the ground with the holds. Otherwise it's a low/crouch start. Good luck on your bouldering journey 😊
Those landings do look rather uncomfortable for a landing zone. Definitely make sure you have a spotter for stuff like that, their job isn’t even to break your fall, but to secure your head and spine in an uncontrolled fall. That does a lot for your confidence as well, especially for sketchy landing. Also: you should really try and plan a trip to Fontainebleau at some point. It is really uncomparable to anything you else you might visit for bouldering. Not only is it a beautiful forest, it also unmatched in the density, quantity and quality of boulders. That feeling of driving to Fontainebleau for the first time and seeing some sandstone boulders in the forest out of your windows is amazing.
So when i was setting something we had to think about is will someone going to the gym for the first time enjoy it if it was really as hard as outside. probably not so you need to stretch the lower grades downwards that way people who really are very new can get up the wall sometimes. but you also dont wanna just make the range of v0s massive so everting gets shifted. and slowly gets closer to matching their outdoor counterparts as the grades get higher.
The no hands mantle V6 was my problem at ley quarry called "Those Hips Don't Ley" i have a video of the FA on my Insta. Brutally on the hips even with mikes variation! So cool to see it on the channel man 👍
It helps a lot if you have an assist at the ground that helps you fall right and adjust pads if you don't have many. Outdoors... you need to learn to read the boulders first, it's just different. That V5 no handholds looks about right, maybe you're just not good a doing the balance mantle thing. It's very good feet and no overhang.
I can totaly understand the fear of falling outdoors. I've tried some outdoor bouldering within the last couple of weeks and it is totally different to being indoors. I'm not going as risky as indoors😅
Great to see you finally getting outdoors, but please please wear a helmet. I know it's seen as ridiculously uncool, but I know a lot of boulderers who have got hurt hitting their head on landings. The better the climber the safer they usually are, they're less likely to fall in an uncontrolled manner, but for us amateurs I consider a helmet to be essential equipment.
outdoor climbs i think are easier its just the mental thing for me indoors i have 0 fear falling off the wall been climbing now for 2 and a half months and climbing about v5-v6 i couldnt imagine doing those grades outside though through sheer fear of breaking a bone XD
in regards to a comment early in the video, about suffering during an activity, but eventually deciding its fun, that's what is known as "Type 2 Fun", i.e. suffering in the moment, thinking its fun after youve done it (with type 1 fun being fun in the moment, fun in retrospect)
You should get more and bigger pads, those that you used are indeed scary. Also if you have rocks under them, a spotter would guide a potential fall away from them.
Hey Mike, i met you a couple of times in Scotland and have since moved to Australia. I got myself an Organic pad, actually, and have gotten involved a bit with the local bouldering community (due to the lack of sport climbing or good indoor climbing gyms in far north Queensland). I'm new to outdoor bouldering too and can confirm, bouldering grades are WAY harder outdoors. 😮
Possibly one of the best videos I've seen to explain outdoors. It's not that it's hard per day, just different and very stylistic. A crimpy V3 could feel easy for one person and hard another, the exact same with dynamic boulders
The fact there is nothing other than a written description is VERY weak. Most boulder guides have at least the start marked. So its a topograph but with just a dot to signify the start So a picture of the north side with a list of the 4 visible routes. Each route is marked 1-4 or A-D etc. And just a dot near the beginning. It might say, "match both hands on the obvious crimp and work your way up and to the right" and the dot will be on the "obvious crimp" This keeps the beta hidden enough and makes it much more of a choose your own adventure. Or if its two wide hands the dot will be placed between them typically
It’s quite rare for the landing to be completely flat (unless you’re in Fontainebleau). The solution is usually just to bring more pads. When climbing with my friends we usually have 6-8 pads per problem (sometimes more if the landing is especially bad). This is of course unfortunate if you’re only starting out and you and your friends don’t have an endless amount of pads :D
12:35 "That's a really rare position in a gym". More like "when root settlers in a gym don't climb outdoors". It's a very usual thing to start low in the gym I go to, even on the V3 level. Nice video, overall. Entertaining.
The lesson to just try stuff that looks fun to try is a fantastic one! A lot of people I climb with get stuck on trying a boulder or a route just because it's the right grade even if it's not a great climb. If you ever end up taking a trip to Fontainbleau I'd recommend just ignoring the guidebook and putting your mat below whatever you find most inspiring. I've done some fantastic easy and hard climbs by exploring in this way.
Disregarding grades and having fun is good advice. If I started making my own grades tho, Im afraid I couldnt keep my ego in check. Certainly feel like 9A 🤓 Grades are fun too! What isn’t fun is seeing someone breeze up your project with eloquent dad strength. Out on a walk today are we?
13:47 on the contrary. Grades are the best way to track progress. But yes, grades don't matter, except for knowing whether to get on something or not. If you're struggling doing a 6c there's no actual point in trying 7a, because the grades are exponential, so it most likely will be twice as hard. And the "don't matter" part, is that you just have to take something that's either at or above your limit and fight the good fight on it, by looking at a route graded around what your limit is.
I actually disagree with trying the harder grades. There have been many times that, for whatever reason, I've done the harder grade but couldn't get the lower one! Thanks for watching 💪
@@MikeBoydClimbs That's just bad grades. If they're decently often climbed, due to the fact climbing grades are exponential you should never be able to get a higher grade but not get the lower one.
@@RockClimberAlex I'd also disagree, grades are HUGELY subjective, differ from crag to crag and boulder to boulder. Especially in the lower end (up to v6 maybe? Which is firmly where I am). They're not bad grades, they're subjective grades, they're historic grades, they're dependent upon height, or being better at certain types of climb. There are some HORRENDOUS V1s out there, which I've struggled to tick, yet there are a number of V4s I've flashed. I know I'm stronger at steep stuff and weaker at slabs (dire footwork) I agree grades are useful as an indicator - I wouldn't visit a crag that had one v1 and 20 v8s - I'd know there's not enough for me there but I've ticked a fair few climbs outside of what I'd consider my max grade range because they suit me. Or maybe they're just soft.
@@mrgrinch835134 This, 100%. Especially the difference at every crag, here in Vic, Australia, a v7 at Macedon is very different to a V7 at Grampians. Also, grades aren't exponential. One grade up is not double the difficulty/effort, that's ridiculous
Tried bouldering outside for the first time a couple weeks ago as well, and got equally humbled. Usually climb at 6A+ to 6B+ inside, but outside the hardest I managed was like a 5+. Great video!
The main factor in the difference between indoor and outdoor grading is that outdoors grades are a consensus opinion of many (normally) experienced climbers, wheras indoor grades are given by a buisness whose purpose is to bring in money, and will grade boulders to make people feel better about themselves/stronger in the hopes that they will come back and pay more money. Hence they tend to artificially deflate the difficulty relative to outdoor boulders (where nobody normally has any incentive to misgrade them). I think the other large factor is that commercial climbing gyms are trending towards using much bigger footholds, and if people never learn to climb on small footholds then they will struggle a lot more if they transition to climbing outside.
Also flashing is much more difficult outdoors because even if a problem is physically within your ability, you still need to work out where the holds are. At the lower grades, indoors, reading the route is pretty self explanatory (move to the next red hold, etc). Outdoors anything can be a hold, but only the easiest sequence is graded.
I think you're probably about this - especially with the bigger chain walls. It's perhaps different at some of the old skool walls - my local gym is the Foundry in Sheffield, one of the oldest in the country (it's also a CIC and run by members rather than 100% for-profit). I don't think the grading is as soft there as it is in newer places (it does vary, of course, depending on the setter and the style). I haven't done much climbing outdoors yet - I've been climbing a year, and my only outdoor trip so far was a morning of sport climbing on Peak District limestone. But one thing I noticed was that I didn't find the footholds as bad as everyone was telling me they were, and I think that's partly down to climbing on the Wave and Moon Wall at the Foundry - you get more accustomed to thinking of teeny features as 'good' footholds if you've got a wall that mimics natural rock a bit. It's also down to the fact I've really had to work at my footwork because I'm a T-Rex with a crap ape index, minimal upper body strength and crappy tendons (I have joint hypermobility). I'm fully prepared to be schooled once I get on some outdoor boulders though! 😅 I have no doubt they'll feel WAY harder than indoors.
That guidebook is a nightmare. I've found a lot of Scottish bouldering crags are really poorly covered by photo topos. Spend a disproportionate amount of time watching vids of the problems everywhere to know what to climb. Lednock is lush!
I feel like there's a big difference in lower grades and thats due to the history of outdoor climbing, it's been a hobby for people who already know how to climb and have good level of finger strength. That's why the grades feel hard for newer climbers because they start to venture outside after one year of bouldering etc (and that's only a good thing!). The grade gap should even out once you get to 7a-7a+ (v6-v7). So I would say if you can climb over 7a+ inside but can't send a 7a outside, your gym is soft.
Your pants are restricting your movement. Try running leggings. They're not so durable and look silly, but you might enjoy climbing close to the degrees of freedom your near-naked body would offer ;-)
Maybe if you'd had someone spotting you, which is probably recommended on page 7 in the book you didn't read, you'd have some more headspace to focus on the rock :). Great video! Thank you
I disagree with the sandbag comment! All the problems filmed look about right for the crag... I'd suggest that gyms in Scotland must be really soft! Although I often disagree with grades in my gym too 😅
I feel like vertical/slab climbs outdoor can be harder than vertical/slab climbs indoor. But overhanging routes outdoors are roughly the same/easier when it comes to grades. I've sent an outdoor V6 but I have yet to do an indoor V6, and it was basically a roof with a cruxy headwall move to a top out.
Man, I twisted my ankle in almost a 90* angle when I was bouldering inside, just landed in the “perfect” way right in the middle between where the crash pads came together. I still feel it ache after 8ish years when I walk too much. I don’t think I will be bouldering outside anytime soon.
You’re afraid of heights big time huh? Try practicing taking bigger falls in the gym where it’s safer to get better at confidently landing from fall outside drops.
Great video, Mike. I only discovered you through your videos with the Wide Boyz, but I love this channel - as someone who's only one year into my own climbing journey, your content is so relatable. Also, fantastic editing, filming and general storytelling. You have a real knack for narrative. Keep up the good work, buddy! 👏🏻
I think you're right. One of the local instructors I know said "it's not harder; it's just different". For the easier grades, at least, sometimes (not always!) you have more options because you're not restricted to a set of coloured holds. I've not done much outdoor climbing at all yet - only one sport climbing sesh on limestone. But I actually found I was able to play to my strengths more outside. I found more opportunities to do things with my legs and hips (I'm a T-Rex!) and not feel frustrated because the route was set by a tall/long-armed person and I'm forced to dyno (a skill I'm working on, but I prefer precise, techy climbing!) for a hold that others can just reach up and grab. That said, that was only one outing, and it wasn't bouldering. But I think there's something in that idea. There's potentially more room for creativity and freedom of interpretation, but learning to 'read' the rock is almost an entirely new skill in itself and the risk factor and variability of conditions adds to perceptions of difficulty.
I boulder V11/8A outdoors and this guy gets a bloody Organic sponsorship! 😂 Good on ya though Mike, I’ve enjoyed your videos since before you got into climbing and been waiting for an outdoor bouldering video 💪. Hit me up if you ever fancy some Peak District bouldering!
It's kinda crazy how V11 isn't hard anymore lol, when I started many years ago V11 was mythical and would get you sponsored but these days there's like 15 V11 climbers in my gym each evening. Just wild how the standard has increased
It's hilarious that previous climbing with the likes of Pete Whittaker and Dave McLeod is seen as safer than this bouldering, seems more like it's simply lack of familiarity...and lack of experienced and focused spotters!
Inspirational stuff! The scariness kf outdoor bouldering has put me off so far but this makes me want to give it a go. Indoor has the convenience factor too, which is hard to beat
Gyms aren't really soft. They are just gyms. Rock and plastic are two different things, and trying to smash them together to create a singe, unified grading system doesn't work very well.
I think he was saying he was “doing no consequence sport” (as in low grades, well bolted routes) and top rope, not that “all sport is no consequence.” Ps/ As I’m writing this I’m sat here with a badly sprained ankle from my worst sport whip yet on Friday.
My dude, your climbing videos have become soooo enjoyable. Content, editing, personality. Everything on point. I genuinely enjoyed every vid on this channel 🎉
To all the people who think spotters are important: Can you show me one video where the spotter actually made a difference? I feel like most of the time the spotter is standing on wobbly feet, not prepared to exert any kind of force.or standing in the wrong spot (usually too close) entirely. I think they might be able to prevent your head from hitting the ground (or rocks) but that could be greatly mitigated with a helmet as well.
"I feel like on this climbing channel all I do is bitch and moan" - that's what makes it so entertaining! 🤣 I'm always wondering how outdoor boulderers get off the boulders after the climb, but usually the film just cuts out at that point so it's great to see that side of it. Also I loved the bright colours. Quite impressive to put up a new route on your first outing too. 😄
I'd argue that 40% of bouldering is not understanding the guide book and 40% getting stuck on top of the boulders and then 20% climbing, so id argue you have it down
9:35 It's better to use some spotting when you have a wall behind... Even if it doesn't seem too close - a fall from a slabby boulder could throw you far enough.
15:36 I have been bouldering outside for years. V3 is always something to be proud of. And in the gym its a warm up. The grades just have different meanings outside.
Having outdoor grades in the gym makes no sense, in Italy we use just colors and every gym has their own "grades", for example. I think that's more reasonable as indoor and outdoor bouldering are very different
"Risk makes the problem feel harder" - very true and I think the main reason why people perceive outdoor bouldering to be harder: you can never fully focus on the climb itself and are always managing risk
not understanding the guidebook is the first step to outdoor bouldering. you did it right.
😂
No first step is not buying any guide believeing you can make it with on line free material
Plus Boulder Scotland is the worst guidebook ever made
part of outdoor bouldering is crash pad management. if a climb doesn't do much traversing, has a clean landing zone, and is fairly vertical; then you can get away with 1 or 2 pads that stay put the whole time and you can do it "safely" on your own. But when a climb moves you away from your crash pads either because of a traverse or the slope of the climb, then you'll want more pads (one person can only carry so many) or an active spotter/pad manager. When you have a spotter moving pads as you progress through a climb, you can do a whole lot more with just 2 pads.
Watching you climb at the first location made me a bit nervous for your safety when you had a few people there who could have been moving pads and spotting your falls. I saw how you learned from the comments on your first lead video, so I'm sure your next outdoor bouldering trip will be much safer. Enjoy those beautiful Glens!
The enjoyment of all outdoor climbing exponentially increases the more regularly you can get out. Love the videos, keep getting out and you'll keep surprising yourself with the progress.
I'll need keep going with it then 💪
who writes "to the left"in this kind of context?! what are we supposed to get from it😂
everything
usally the climbs in a guide book are broken up based on the side of the boulder face so to the left would indicate the left side of that face. but if the guide book didnt specify north south east or west side it was poorly written
It's also possible he skipped the intro and just bee-lined to the area. I made that mistake when I first started. Usually, these guidebooks pretty much tell you how to decipher the language in the first chapter. Things like what the stars that mark certain climbs are, how to understand the topography (albeit this one didn't have one), and most importantly, the local rules/regulations/etiquette, which I highly recommend everyone read before going out to an area for the first time. Even if you just go to the shop and flip through that one section, it'll help a lot in the long run.
I remember watching your first climbing video, giving you (a pretty good to my opinion) advice.
Let me do it again today: you really lacked a spotter. It would have been more reassuring and safe for you. I freaked out twice in this video. Glad you have not hurt yourself.
Keep going!
I think on the lower end of boulders there's a ton of sandbagging because obscure boulders never get regraded.
Yeah I climb consistently "v8-v10" graded shit at the gym and some v4's outdoor have still gone unsent meanwhile I have sent a handful of v7's/v8's that felt way easier than the grade would suggest. Basically, grade means nothing but overall outdoor is harder.
Yeah v6 and beyond is pretty consistent but I believe that 0-5 is so inconsistent because it’s mostly technique, so if your 5’8” on a short compression problem that’s a lower grade, it’s gonna be easier than someone like me who’s 6’3” on the same climb, but v6 and beyond poses more problems that involve technique but also have an ability ceiling
This is true with older outdoor route climbing as well I find. At my relatively local popular crag, where most of the climbs were first sent in like the 60s or 70s, I "joke" that anything under a 5.10 can be arbitrarily any grade up to, and including, 5.10a.
doubly so because many of the people putting routes up or writing guidebooks are very strong climbers and don't really remember what easy grades feel like
I think it's also because the people who tend to make FAs outdoors are usually climbers with 10-15 years of experience, who don't realize how highly developed their forearms and other requisite muscles have become. They make an FA which is, in fact, a complete breeze for them, and grade it V1, not realizing that what is a breeze for them actually still requires a large degree of forearm muscle development.
In my experience outdoor V0-2 are the most inconsistent outdoor grades when compared to gym grades.
ignoring grades and just enjoying bouldering is definitely something I am starting to do more. seeing kids on break throw their bodies at the wall and use any hold possible to top out is inspiring
At the time i tried outdoor bouldering for the first time i climbed V6 moonbard benchmarks and supposedly harder stuff at the gym. I was humbled on my first sesh on rocks to a V4/V5 climber. After a couple of sessions i got used to the unique challenges and climbed V7. I am confident you will have a similar experience 😄
I've never tried the moonboard but I've heard it's mega hard too!
For me when I was getting started bouldering on real rock, it helped going with someone who had climbed the area for a long time. He knew the area like the back of his hand and it was basically like getting a guided tour; no confusion about what was considered “on” or “off” on a problem. Certain areas and rock types are a better transition from the gym as well
There are some areas around me that are exceptionally clear - 200m long cliff face with obvious shelves and pockets, and others where I’ve gone 5+ times to areas with over 300 documented routes only to find a dozen low quality climbs.
Went to Skyline Albert yesterday and found probably 25 new projects, while Big Choss has given me very little to return for, despite having like 8 pages in the guidebook. Feels pretty obvious that I’m missing something there.
If you have an issue with falling, having a constant spotter to catch your fall, and push you towards the best spot on the crash pad if you do fall is super helpful, it gives you so much more confidence on the rock
>ignores guidebook
>climbs whatever he wants with no information
>doesn't care about the grade or the climb
>climbs in extreme weather (rain and wind)
I had my doubts but he actually has the makings of a perfect outdoor climber
Dropped by Block 10 on a recent trip and had an absolute blast. Mentioned I'd heard about the gym from your video and the lady at the front desk said you'd been in earlier that morning. Sad to have missed you, but I had a great time. If I ever return to Dundee, I'll definitely be back. Thanks for introducing me to such a great gym!
Tara actually told me you did. Sorry I missed you. thanks for checking out my local gym 💪
Makes me think of my first outdoor bouldering experience. About an hr of bush bashing to get to the boulder ? Not sure if its even the right one , end up making up some climbs . Everything feels extremely sketchy. End up with a few tick bites about 5min in total of "climbing" and some "send" footage so stupid on rewatch it nearly sends you into an existential crisis.
It does get better haha
Damn... you described it so well even down to the tick bites...
Climbing outdoors is a testament of how all the "other" things in climbing matter so much (breathing, not overgripping, planning, flow, a sense of body awareness, mental game, route reading, etc...) It's always fun to be humbled, and to face a challenge that shuts you down. Don't forget to get back up once you get humbled by a piece of rock.
Stanage Bouldering guide book makes a note on bouldering pads: “pads are encouraged but make the problems easier.”
these old school blokes were rolling the dice on breaking ankles or bruised tailbones every day and have the gall to say “you know… you’re doing it soft, if you want a real challenge, don’t use pads”
I live in southern California and the crags around are notorious for being sandbagged and having a lot of highballs, you've got boulders taller than 20ft that some blokes climbed in the 70's and 80's with a small piece of carpet to rub the dirt off what we could hardly call climbing shoes. I have a massive amount of respect for the old heads that really did throw caution to the wind to climb some silly rocks.
I think you would have a good time travelling to a bouldering destination. climbing obscure local problems is great with good knowledge and lots of good communication within the community, but not the best way to intro yourself. Jump across the pond and visit Fontainbleau!
I dont think he can time travel
Glen Lednock is pretty good, at least below f7a
@@patrickfleming turns out font still exists, just double checked for you
@lliammcbean6819 I'm well aware, I spent the last week there.
@@patrickfleming took me a month but I just got the time travel joke…
Building good landings is for sure a science of its own and definitely worth learning (holes between pads are just great for breaking your ankles, you need to cover them). Having a good spotter who knows what they're doing is also a must especially with sketchy landings (redirecting your fall). Climbing over Fontainebleau's soft sandy ground is totally different from a steep, risky, sharp rock littered terrain of magic wood for example.
You are making the exact type of climbing videos i want to see. It is also the types of videos i want to make myself some day :)
thanks for the kind words. I'm trying to make content that I would like to watch so it sounds like we are quite similar in that way 😊
The biggest difference I find is in route reading. Reading boulders in a gym is easy because the holds are bright pink and you already know what each hold feels like. Outside gives you no such luxury so it just takes time to learn a climb
You should do a font trip! Bonus is the boolder app is absolutely amazing, so easy to find stuff and full of topos and GPS
I'll check it out! Thanks for watching 💪
Absolutely need a spotter! This is scary stuff Mike
13:20: 'We all have egos here'
13:58: 'At the lower end - V5 and below'
Alright Mr V6...
Hey Mike, just so you know for next time, in a "sit-start" you are supposed to sit (have your butt touch the ground) and then lift off the ground with the holds. Otherwise it's a low/crouch start. Good luck on your bouldering journey 😊
I actually didn't know that! Thanks for watching 💪
@@MikeBoydClimbs And if you can't sit your butt on the ground, just stack another pad underneath. It totally still counts...
Those landings do look rather uncomfortable for a landing zone. Definitely make sure you have a spotter for stuff like that, their job isn’t even to break your fall, but to secure your head and spine in an uncontrolled fall. That does a lot for your confidence as well, especially for sketchy landing. Also: you should really try and plan a trip to Fontainebleau at some point. It is really uncomparable to anything you else you might visit for bouldering. Not only is it a beautiful forest, it also unmatched in the density, quantity and quality of boulders. That feeling of driving to Fontainebleau for the first time and seeing some sandstone boulders in the forest out of your windows is amazing.
fontainebleau is on the cards!
signed up for my first outdoor lead intro workshop in 2 weeks - I hold responsible for this
So when i was setting something we had to think about is will someone going to the gym for the first time enjoy it if it was really as hard as outside. probably not so you need to stretch the lower grades downwards that way people who really are very new can get up the wall sometimes. but you also dont wanna just make the range of v0s massive so everting gets shifted. and slowly gets closer to matching their outdoor counterparts as the grades get higher.
The no hands mantle V6 was my problem at ley quarry called "Those Hips Don't Ley" i have a video of the FA on my Insta. Brutally on the hips even with mikes variation! So cool to see it on the channel man 👍
Nice one. It's a really nice boulder. The V6 variation is insanely difficult!
I absolutely love your climbing content! It’s awesome to be able to see how you make progress in rock climbing!
Glad you enjoy it! Thanks for the comment
The names of the random boulder problems is half the fun! Please show them along with the grades next time.
Wide Boyz tee spotted. It's a great thing that Mike goes climbing all decked in high visibility orange clothes.
It helps a lot if you have an assist at the ground that helps you fall right and adjust pads if you don't have many.
Outdoors... you need to learn to read the boulders first, it's just different.
That V5 no handholds looks about right, maybe you're just not good a doing the balance mantle thing. It's very good feet and no overhang.
IF you never started climbing, would you wear bright orange pants?
I can totaly understand the fear of falling outdoors.
I've tried some outdoor bouldering within the last couple of weeks and it is totally different to being indoors.
I'm not going as risky as indoors😅
Great to see you finally getting outdoors, but please please wear a helmet. I know it's seen as ridiculously uncool, but I know a lot of boulderers who have got hurt hitting their head on landings. The better the climber the safer they usually are, they're less likely to fall in an uncontrolled manner, but for us amateurs I consider a helmet to be essential equipment.
Yes, unless you are comparing to board grades, which are pretty similar to outdoor grades.
3:16 Exactly why i started my channel - i may not send them perfectly but gives the next person an idea!
Thanks Mike, helps a lot
i think footwork is extremely important outside and can make a huge difference in how hard you find the boulders
outdoor climbs i think are easier its just the mental thing for me indoors i have 0 fear falling off the wall been climbing now for 2 and a half months and climbing about v5-v6 i couldnt imagine doing those grades outside though through sheer fear of breaking a bone XD
Please get spotters, I like your content
in regards to a comment early in the video, about suffering during an activity, but eventually deciding its fun, that's what is known as "Type 2 Fun", i.e. suffering in the moment, thinking its fun after youve done it (with type 1 fun being fun in the moment, fun in retrospect)
You should get more and bigger pads, those that you used are indeed scary. Also if you have rocks under them, a spotter would guide a potential fall away from them.
Finally! I've been getting into outdoors too and have experienced nearly all of the same difficulties. It's such a relief knowing it's not just me.
Hey Mike, i met you a couple of times in Scotland and have since moved to Australia. I got myself an Organic pad, actually, and have gotten involved a bit with the local bouldering community (due to the lack of sport climbing or good indoor climbing gyms in far north Queensland). I'm new to outdoor bouldering too and can confirm, bouldering grades are WAY harder outdoors. 😮
Possibly one of the best videos I've seen to explain outdoors. It's not that it's hard per day, just different and very stylistic. A crimpy V3 could feel easy for one person and hard another, the exact same with dynamic boulders
If you go outside please don’t leave rubbish, brush off your chalk and don’t play loud music 😅 cheers…grades have too many variables so just have fun.
The fact there is nothing other than a written description is VERY weak. Most boulder guides have at least the start marked. So its a topograph but with just a dot to signify the start
So a picture of the north side with a list of the 4 visible routes. Each route is marked 1-4 or A-D etc. And just a dot near the beginning. It might say, "match both hands on the obvious crimp and work your way up and to the right" and the dot will be on the "obvious crimp"
This keeps the beta hidden enough and makes it much more of a choose your own adventure.
Or if its two wide hands the dot will be placed between them typically
It’s not outdoor bouldering which is confusing, it’s that particular guide book 😂
It’s the worse out of the 15 or so guidebooks I own.
And when you finally get used to outdoor grades... then you go to Fontainebleau... and you need to start over again 😅
It’s quite rare for the landing to be completely flat (unless you’re in Fontainebleau). The solution is usually just to bring more pads. When climbing with my friends we usually have 6-8 pads per problem (sometimes more if the landing is especially bad). This is of course unfortunate if you’re only starting out and you and your friends don’t have an endless amount of pads :D
12:35 "That's a really rare position in a gym". More like "when root settlers in a gym don't climb outdoors". It's a very usual thing to start low in the gym I go to, even on the V3 level.
Nice video, overall. Entertaining.
The lesson to just try stuff that looks fun to try is a fantastic one! A lot of people I climb with get stuck on trying a boulder or a route just because it's the right grade even if it's not a great climb. If you ever end up taking a trip to Fontainbleau I'd recommend just ignoring the guidebook and putting your mat below whatever you find most inspiring. I've done some fantastic easy and hard climbs by exploring in this way.
I just realised you are living in schottland where @climbermacleod lives also. You should go climbing with him if you can. He is a great climber :)
we've already done it! check out our video together 😊
Personally I never think about grades in the gym. Make your own grade, the ones given in the gym are usually one person opinions
Disregarding grades and having fun is good advice. If I started making my own grades tho, Im afraid I couldnt keep my ego in check. Certainly feel like 9A 🤓
Grades are fun too! What isn’t fun is seeing someone breeze up your project with eloquent dad strength. Out on a walk today are we?
13:47 on the contrary. Grades are the best way to track progress. But yes, grades don't matter, except for knowing whether to get on something or not. If you're struggling doing a 6c there's no actual point in trying 7a, because the grades are exponential, so it most likely will be twice as hard. And the "don't matter" part, is that you just have to take something that's either at or above your limit and fight the good fight on it, by looking at a route graded around what your limit is.
I actually disagree with trying the harder grades. There have been many times that, for whatever reason, I've done the harder grade but couldn't get the lower one! Thanks for watching 💪
@@MikeBoydClimbs That's just bad grades. If they're decently often climbed, due to the fact climbing grades are exponential you should never be able to get a higher grade but not get the lower one.
@@RockClimberAlex I'd also disagree, grades are HUGELY subjective, differ from crag to crag and boulder to boulder. Especially in the lower end (up to v6 maybe? Which is firmly where I am).
They're not bad grades, they're subjective grades, they're historic grades, they're dependent upon height, or being better at certain types of climb. There are some HORRENDOUS V1s out there, which I've struggled to tick, yet there are a number of V4s I've flashed. I know I'm stronger at steep stuff and weaker at slabs (dire footwork)
I agree grades are useful as an indicator - I wouldn't visit a crag that had one v1 and 20 v8s - I'd know there's not enough for me there but I've ticked a fair few climbs outside of what I'd consider my max grade range because they suit me.
Or maybe they're just soft.
@@mrgrinch835134 This, 100%.
Especially the difference at every crag, here in Vic, Australia, a v7 at Macedon is very different to a V7 at Grampians.
Also, grades aren't exponential. One grade up is not double the difficulty/effort, that's ridiculous
Tried bouldering outside for the first time a couple weeks ago as well, and got equally humbled. Usually climb at 6A+ to 6B+ inside, but outside the hardest I managed was like a 5+. Great video!
glad I'm not the only one!
The main factor in the difference between indoor and outdoor grading is that outdoors grades are a consensus opinion of many (normally) experienced climbers, wheras indoor grades are given by a buisness whose purpose is to bring in money, and will grade boulders to make people feel better about themselves/stronger in the hopes that they will come back and pay more money. Hence they tend to artificially deflate the difficulty relative to outdoor boulders (where nobody normally has any incentive to misgrade them). I think the other large factor is that commercial climbing gyms are trending towards using much bigger footholds, and if people never learn to climb on small footholds then they will struggle a lot more if they transition to climbing outside.
Also flashing is much more difficult outdoors because even if a problem is physically within your ability, you still need to work out where the holds are. At the lower grades, indoors, reading the route is pretty self explanatory (move to the next red hold, etc). Outdoors anything can be a hold, but only the easiest sequence is graded.
I think you're probably about this - especially with the bigger chain walls. It's perhaps different at some of the old skool walls - my local gym is the Foundry in Sheffield, one of the oldest in the country (it's also a CIC and run by members rather than 100% for-profit). I don't think the grading is as soft there as it is in newer places (it does vary, of course, depending on the setter and the style).
I haven't done much climbing outdoors yet - I've been climbing a year, and my only outdoor trip so far was a morning of sport climbing on Peak District limestone. But one thing I noticed was that I didn't find the footholds as bad as everyone was telling me they were, and I think that's partly down to climbing on the Wave and Moon Wall at the Foundry - you get more accustomed to thinking of teeny features as 'good' footholds if you've got a wall that mimics natural rock a bit. It's also down to the fact I've really had to work at my footwork because I'm a T-Rex with a crap ape index, minimal upper body strength and crappy tendons (I have joint hypermobility).
I'm fully prepared to be schooled once I get on some outdoor boulders though! 😅 I have no doubt they'll feel WAY harder than indoors.
That guidebook is a nightmare. I've found a lot of Scottish bouldering crags are really poorly covered by photo topos. Spend a disproportionate amount of time watching vids of the problems everywhere to know what to climb. Lednock is lush!
I feel like there's a big difference in lower grades and thats due to the history of outdoor climbing, it's been a hobby for people who already know how to climb and have good level of finger strength. That's why the grades feel hard for newer climbers because they start to venture outside after one year of bouldering etc (and that's only a good thing!). The grade gap should even out once you get to 7a-7a+ (v6-v7). So I would say if you can climb over 7a+ inside but can't send a 7a outside, your gym is soft.
One possible way to minimise the risk of the skull crusher rock is to wear a helmet :0
Your pants are restricting your movement. Try running leggings. They're not so durable and look silly, but you might enjoy climbing close to the degrees of freedom your near-naked body would offer ;-)
Maybe if you'd had someone spotting you, which is probably recommended on page 7 in the book you didn't read, you'd have some more headspace to focus on the rock :).
Great video! Thank you
I disagree with the sandbag comment! All the problems filmed look about right for the crag... I'd suggest that gyms in Scotland must be really soft! Although I often disagree with grades in my gym too 😅
I feel like vertical/slab climbs outdoor can be harder than vertical/slab climbs indoor. But overhanging routes outdoors are roughly the same/easier when it comes to grades. I've sent an outdoor V6 but I have yet to do an indoor V6, and it was basically a roof with a cruxy headwall move to a top out.
I know this technically isn't climbing, but I do recommend trying out some hard "via ferrata" too.
Thank you for confirming i should stick with ropes. This looks like injury central for me. Looks fun but I know my place.
Man, I twisted my ankle in almost a 90* angle when I was bouldering inside, just landed in the “perfect” way right in the middle between where the crash pads came together. I still feel it ache after 8ish years when I walk too much. I don’t think I will be bouldering outside anytime soon.
I would've thought you'd wear a helmet, esp given your landing concerns 😅
For me outdoors is hardwr until V7 and after than indoors becomes hard. Honestly, indoor V10-V11s are insane.
You’re afraid of heights big time huh? Try practicing taking bigger falls in the gym where it’s safer to get better at confidently landing from fall outside drops.
Thats why you need to make friends to help carry in more pads! Will make it feel much better
Search TH-cam for: Scottish guy on roof . Thats what Mike is like at 4:27 !
That is the worlds worst guidebook
Great video, Mike. I only discovered you through your videos with the Wide Boyz, but I love this channel - as someone who's only one year into my own climbing journey, your content is so relatable.
Also, fantastic editing, filming and general storytelling. You have a real knack for narrative. Keep up the good work, buddy! 👏🏻
thanks Anna, that really means a lot 😊
5:00 sounds exactly right
Its really based on your environment and skillset so we cant say anything for everyone with certainty
I think you're right. One of the local instructors I know said "it's not harder; it's just different".
For the easier grades, at least, sometimes (not always!) you have more options because you're not restricted to a set of coloured holds. I've not done much outdoor climbing at all yet - only one sport climbing sesh on limestone. But I actually found I was able to play to my strengths more outside. I found more opportunities to do things with my legs and hips (I'm a T-Rex!) and not feel frustrated because the route was set by a tall/long-armed person and I'm forced to dyno (a skill I'm working on, but I prefer precise, techy climbing!) for a hold that others can just reach up and grab.
That said, that was only one outing, and it wasn't bouldering. But I think there's something in that idea. There's potentially more room for creativity and freedom of interpretation, but learning to 'read' the rock is almost an entirely new skill in itself and the risk factor and variability of conditions adds to perceptions of difficulty.
I boulder V11/8A outdoors and this guy gets a bloody Organic sponsorship! 😂 Good on ya though Mike, I’ve enjoyed your videos since before you got into climbing and been waiting for an outdoor bouldering video 💪. Hit me up if you ever fancy some Peak District bouldering!
Maybe your one subscriber will buy hundreds of pads when you get sponsorship too 😅
It's kinda crazy how V11 isn't hard anymore lol, when I started many years ago V11 was mythical and would get you sponsored but these days there's like 15 V11 climbers in my gym each evening. Just wild how the standard has increased
The best climber is the one having the most fun :)
It's hilarious that previous climbing with the likes of Pete Whittaker and Dave McLeod is seen as safer than this bouldering, seems more like it's simply lack of familiarity...and lack of experienced and focused spotters!
I see what you mean, but being clipped in is arguabli much less risky although if something goes horribly wrong its higher consequence.
Inspirational stuff! The scariness kf outdoor bouldering has put me off so far but this makes me want to give it a go. Indoor has the convenience factor too, which is hard to beat
Try to find a place that has flat landings to get started. Enjoy! (and thanks for watching)
Those are the worst type of guidebooks..
Gyms aren't really soft. They are just gyms. Rock and plastic are two different things, and trying to smash them together to create a singe, unified grading system doesn't work very well.
No consequence outdoor sport? Sport is so much scarier outdoors than bouldering can’t change my mind
I think he was saying he was “doing no consequence sport” (as in low grades, well bolted routes) and top rope, not that “all sport is no consequence.” Ps/ As I’m writing this I’m sat here with a badly sprained ankle from my worst sport whip yet on Friday.
Where’s your spotter bro?
You need a spottter forctuat pointy rock
Nice to see places I've been in this video
Nice video buddy. I appreciate that you have this climbing channel. It’s what got me subbed to your main channel actually
What a crap guidebbook!
Now try the buttermilks or Yosemite you’ll be doing V0- routes. It’s ridiculously sandbagged there
My dude, your climbing videos have become soooo enjoyable. Content, editing, personality. Everything on point. I genuinely enjoyed every vid on this channel 🎉
Nice!
To all the people who think spotters are important: Can you show me one video where the spotter actually made a difference? I feel like most of the time the spotter is standing on wobbly feet, not prepared to exert any kind of force.or standing in the wrong spot (usually too close) entirely. I think they might be able to prevent your head from hitting the ground (or rocks) but that could be greatly mitigated with a helmet as well.
8:06 how about a helmet
I’m just here to say the name “boulding pads” seems silly. Why is it not “bouldering pads”?
"I feel like on this climbing channel all I do is bitch and moan" - that's what makes it so entertaining! 🤣 I'm always wondering how outdoor boulderers get off the boulders after the climb, but usually the film just cuts out at that point so it's great to see that side of it. Also I loved the bright colours. Quite impressive to put up a new route on your first outing too. 😄
I'd argue that 40% of bouldering is not understanding the guide book and 40% getting stuck on top of the boulders and then 20% climbing, so id argue you have it down
9:35 It's better to use some spotting when you have a wall behind... Even if it doesn't seem too close - a fall from a slabby boulder could throw you far enough.
15:36 I have been bouldering outside for years. V3 is always something to be proud of. And in the gym its a warm up. The grades just have different meanings outside.
Having outdoor grades in the gym makes no sense, in Italy we use just colors and every gym has their own "grades", for example. I think that's more reasonable as indoor and outdoor bouldering are very different
"Risk makes the problem feel harder" - very true and I think the main reason why people perceive outdoor bouldering to be harder: you can never fully focus on the climb itself and are always managing risk
OMG 8 MINS in and I just realised Mike is using a wideboyz shirt LETS GOOOO