I really hope they bring back the watcher archetype as that is all I play. Though, tbh, theres shouldn't be any reason why they wouldn't, it's a pretty unique archetype that requires, appropriately enough, blind deck foresight
For me it's also the simplicity of STS that makes it so good. Cards' texts are simple, keywords are limited, and synergies don't feel forced. Most games that tried to imitate or improve it tried to added too many layers of complexity which made them less pleasant to play because of mental overload.
I definitely understand. I love alina of the arena but I barely play it because it's so hard to be on point for long enough to finish a run and try and close out the final boss. Like, I love that death coins carry over between rounds because that encourages people to try their best to push through another boss or the other stuff that gives coins I forget even when you think a run is doomed. And when the combat works it's truly electric. I have never had a more satisfying turn in any other roguelike than the highest highs of this game because when you juggle a crossbow, broadsword, and dagger, and sheild over the course of a single fight between your two hands it makes you feel like a stylish swashbuckler. Like here's a few situations that just mentally pop off: slashing at a horde of spiders surrounding you with a broadsword. Throwing a rock into an illusionust's face and having him disappear revealing that was just a clone and charging over to deliver the killing blow to the real boss before he manages to start summoning in more. Repeatedly breaking the caster's shield but leaving them alive to force them to drain more of their brutes life to restore it. Only landing the killing blow when you can put both of them down in the same turn to avoid the enraged fight entirely. 😍
@@solsystem1342 Bought the game, thanks for the great recommendation. It's been a blast so far. Two-handed is harder at first, since the weapons are locked for the turn when you use them, but that only adds to the great tactical decisions for this turn and the next. Thanks again, I'm happy to have learned about this game ^^
@@ignas358 I do like monster train, but the enemies especially do feel like they're still the first idea they came up with. None of them interact in interesting ways with different strategies. And their relics don't feel like they've put in much effort either, with some of the energy relics carrying a run pretty much no matter what else you do. Like, "monster cards cost -1" would still be broken in most builds, but it's -2 instead, making all but 3 (i think) monsters completely free. also having multiple bosses that look exactly alike doesn't help with learning the game.
I like that the bosses and elites are there to test out you deck's abilities - like the Act 1 elites and bosses are there to test your damage, Act 3 bosses each prohibit a different playstyle and force you to scale quickly - the Time Eater bans your infinites and forces you to play less cards, Donu and Deca scale really fast while flooding your deck with statuses and the Awakened One prohibits you from killing it in a burst while also hating powers, so setting up for the second phase is difficult. Then the Heart tests out your survivability in the first three turns and then scales so fast you need to adapt to that. All of the game's obstacles are designed so well, I love it.
Important correction regarding winnability! Forgotten Arbiter was not trying to prove how many seeds are winnable, merely to find one seed he could easily prove was definitely unwinnable. To do so, he set a very narrow set of criteria that he knew could set up an impossible early Lagavulin, then brute force searched for a seed with those exact criteria. This doesn't mean that every other seed is definitely winnable, just that he didn't find another seed with that exact Lagavulin fight. Proving how many other seeds are winnable is pretty much combinatorically impossible to solve. All we know is that there is *at least* one seed that we could successfully prove to be unwinnable.
Tbh, this game is scary addictive... Time just flies when you play it. 25 hours in, still struggling with A0 spire heart with Watcher 😢 Feels so hard, but always a rush to start over, it's like a drug.
@@NikolaiPatiukov Yeah I agree it's months later after I put the game down and I still think about hopping back on to play it at least once or twice a week unlike other games
I have two thousand hours on this game. And after seeing this video, its just amazing how a team of only 2 people drove a beta process so amazing that put AAA studios to shame. And the balancing may explain why I don't explain the mods so much. I respect the effort, but the balancing of vanilla it's unmatched
@@shrewdagency6588From what I've seen of AI trying to learn other games, it doesn't seem possible at this time. There's too many decision points, too many decision trees. For example, it would take an AI a very long time to realize that the Hexaghost boss in Act 1 needs to be burned down quickly versus fighting The Guardian at a steady pace, or taking advantage of the way The Slime Boss splitting mechanic works. The sheer variance of STS makes it difficult for a LLM to gather useful data.
@@LFielding07 yes perhaps the better strategy will be to just refine and mod on the current player dataset. Be interesting to see if someone works out a shortcut for this with the new tools available....
As a mainly YuGiOh player, a card game with no set rotation and like 10,000 cards, I definitely agree that it's best to keep the card pool manageable in order to facilitate both draft and a relatively friendly new player experience. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to get friends into YuGiOh and they look at the insane learning curve mixed with thousands of cards with paragraphs of text and say "yeah that's a no from me dawg" 😅😂
As a Yugo-boomer, I’d like to recommend Pokemon TCG; it’s simple, it’s still complex, and it’s the most popular game in the world for a reason; oh, and it’s less than 60$ to get a competitive deck at minimum-rarity. After that, try Supershow SRG; my wife hates all things fantasy or games but will actually play that game with me. Not for you, mind you, I’m aware that modern Yugioh players are indoctrinated. For your friends who you want to play with!
@@Ghorda9 for the most part I'd say you're right, but there are cards that will suddenly become insane after being useless since they released. Cards like "smoke grenade of the thief" and "appointer of the red lotus" come to mind right off the dome
I entered Yugioh when zexal anime was out ie XYZ summons. Then the game still felt manageable despite some decks clearly being meta, also this was played in an improv client unlike today. I tried reentering a year or two ago because I do really love the game but it just turned into first turn draw for me. Every third game was either lost or won on the 3rd round, mostly dependent on how many handtraps you have. That is stupid. I played Phantom Knights and even then felt a bit overwhelmed with the combo sheet. Imagine my surprise when I opened DDD combo sheet... The game is going to die once this generation drops it which I hope will be soon cuz Konami are greedy af
@@vitorcustodio5899 If they had like 2 more playable characters and a 2-3 more enemy types and 2-3 more random encounters and a 1-2 extra bosses maybe 5 more relics would have done a lot for the longevity also but can't complain since there's mods to do this just woulda been nice in the base game
The important thing is it had really good foundations. They set other developers up for failure because the only option is to add more on top of sts solid foundation and every addition affects that structural integrity. A good example is Pirate Outlaws, a game I enjoy, but they throw like a dozen characters at you that all play very differently. It just feels kind of messy and overwhelming contrasted to sts super elegant stripped down design.
I have roughly 275 hours in Slay the Spire. Not the highest amount for me or for any player of this game, but I had SO much fun. I kinda want to replay it lol. I completed the game in Ascension 20 + Heart with the Defect, reached A20 with Ironclad as well. It's amazing how you can make the same deck concept with common key core cards but a way different run and win conditions sometimes. Or even make a completely different deck that is actually strong enough to make you overcome all the diverse difficulties a run can offer. BTW, the April 2024 spike of players was because they announced Slay the Spire 2 in that same month. It's actually crazy
@@coopstain1728 1) Take your time to analyze the optimal path at the start of an Act. Every character has its weaknesses so it depends on what you're playing of course. In general, Act 1 should consist in more fights rather than events because you want card rewards. This lets you have a wider array of card choices later because you start to develop your strategy earlier this way. You ideally want to take on Elites. Depending on the character you're playing though, some elite fights will be harder or easier. Your game knowledge will lead you to prepare for specific elite fights in some acts, depending on your class and deck. Look for Campfires. Upgrading cards is good, and having a Campfire just after an Elite fight is a godsent. Don't pursue shops too early in Act 1. You actually want to delay a shop as much as possible in Act 1.. Imagine entering a shop with not enough gold to buy relevant cards. You basically miss 2 opportunities, because you waste that shop and most importantly you don't get any reward from that encounter. Some relics are also shop-only and only appear once in your run. This point was very long but it's very important. 2) Always value cards in terms of synergies. There are some bad cards in Slay the Spire, but for starters you can trust in the balance of the game and try out different strategies. You'll gain enough game knowledge to recognize where some strategies win and why some strategies fail. There are very few cards that are actually super powerful by themselves. Most of them are super powerful against a certain type of enemy so it's not like they're absolute powerhouses without taking card synergies in account. 3) I suggest to stick to a character until you win a run. You get to unlock new stuff, learn how the character plays out and you give yourself enough time to explore a fair amount of possibilities
@@coopstain1728 if you want a specific guide for the ironclad, look up the Ascension 20 Ironclad Guide by Panacea (or someone called like that). It's a Google document so you can read it when you need it. It's great for Ascension 20 (the highest difficulty of the game) so of course it's valid for the whole ironclad gameplay. It's going to be way easier than the guide says of course, but the actual basics of the game expecially for the Ironclad are there. In fact, that guide made me learn much about the game that led me to complete Ascension 20 with the Defect first lol
I'm at 1k+ hours now across PC, PS and iOS. I didn't think I'd ever have a 'forever' game, a game I could always replay, but StS is that for me. I've done tons of A20 runs on all characters but even then I still always come back. It never gets old, it may be my favorite game of all time. The sequel has some mighty big shoes to fill.
I've just crossed 1000 hours. I'm at A20 with all characters, but I really, really dislike the watcher. Still haven't beat the heart with that character
I always return to Dream Quest. To me a more fun, more unpredictable experience. And I love its short sessions, and the immediate readability of its simple card art. My forever game. Playing StS afterwards, it simply didn‘t get me hooked.
I have about 30 hours on Steam, where I first played it... but then I got it on mobile, where I'm now at 475 hrs lmao, this game is practically my daily driver. Most of my pals agree that Slay the Spire is probably the best "desert island" game to pick for many of the reasons you outline here. ("If you were stuck on an island with only one game, what would you take?")
@coopstain1728 I dunno what level of tips you're looking for or how general or specific, but to be safe here's a few tips that really help me keep havin a good time: Don't underestimate the value of things that give you more draw / scry / discard / exhaust (deck/hand control). Being able to get the cards you need in your hand (draw / scry) and get rid of the ones you don't want (discard / exhaust) is suuuuper useful. Part of the fun of synergies is discovering them, and a good way to do this is to focus on solving the problem in front of you (have you been short on attack cards? Have you been struggling with groups of enemies? What's the path ahead like? etc). Thinking about it this way might get you to pick up some cards you hadn't considered taking before. Sometimes that card that sounded so unappealing the first few times you saw it ends up becoming a favorite, deck-defining card after playing around with it a few times, so don't be afraid to experiment. (But that doesn't mean you shouldn't skip card rewards if there's nothing you need / that fits whatcha got, definitely don't want to bloat your deck up). And finally - might sound a little bleak lol, but don't get too wrapped up or invested in any given run, there's no shame at all in dying and failure doesn't need to be stressful! "Oh no! Anyway". Be sad that cool deck you had is gone, but look forward to putting another cool one together next run! Anyhow, sorry if I went overboard but I hope this helps and I hope you have fun! Lemme know if you do wanna know more (general stuff like this or character specific stuff or whatever). I'm not super good and I lose a shitload of runs but I like to talk a lot, so. Edit: Oh, also: Never take clash. Always take claw. Claw is law.
They spent hours tweaking, balancing the game, and adding different strategies. Instead of spending millions of dollars on graphics and marketing, they put love and work into the actual gameplay. What companies used to do before they became greedy mega corps.
The defect thunder sound effect scratch that itch in me every time I play em. The witch doctor shivs build also makes me go crazy by how fun it is to just clicking many cards all at once and see my game lagging is pretty fun
1300 hours. Used to play a lot of MtG mainly for the deckbuilding and the draft format, but the pay-to-win nature of it and the need for an opponent eventually drove me away. You pay hundreds for good decks/cards, and get to use them once a week if you're lucky. Even online people would do messed up stuff like go afk when they realize they're losing instead of just conceding so you have to wait out the full 25 mins of their clock. StS fixed almost all of the design issues with MtG such as mana screw/flood, and got rid of having to wait on an opponent. It also has this perfect easy to learn, difficult to master complexity. You pay 15 bucks when it's on sale, one time, and you can play StS infinitely. That's just the vanilla version. Certainly my favorite game of all time as of writing this.
I have just recently gotten in mtga it really doesn't have a great beginner experience. the salty opponent and better cards a beginner has to deal with is bad.
@@FrescaLife as an old MtG enjoyer of the 90s and 00s (physical game), I couldn't agree more. There were so many issues with the multiplayer pay2win format of these games plus design issues. Slay the spire is all I ever wanted from a game. The deckbuilder to end all deckbuilders and literally being able to play this perfection for our whole lives if we choose so.
Seeing their story makes me hope the an indie group would pick me to be their musician 😂 I love this game , but I love that the devs stuck with it for so long even more!
I know this may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm not a fan of the music in Slay the Spire. It's pretty cliched dramatic orchestra music. Many indie games were helped in their success with great music, Slay the Spire wasn't - which makes the other elements of the game all the more impressive.
Dead cells and slay the spire were the first games I bought on Steam. Although I had played hundreds of hours of pirated games before that. These games made me think "I want to pay the developers money". And since then, I've only played games I've bought)
Well. tbf, you are lucky those two were your first games. If i would say 2 games that are basically close to perfection are those two, unless you dislike the genre (cards, or roguelike)
@@robenriven no I was gamer before but they were first that I bought. You may say it's coincidence that because on them I also spend my first earned money ^^
according to steam i have 1115 hours in slay the spire, but I have it on my phone so its probably around 1500 or so. Great video loved learning the history of the game.
I don't think that the original TBOI was obscure about what items did by mistake, to me it was clearly a part of the experience Ed was going for and I personally think it was a very interesting and fun choice. And while StS has no shortage of impressive design choices, I don't see that one as particularly impressive; things being descriptive is just a basic part of any card game.
Yes, I believe Ed’s intent was confirmed somewhere by himself; the fact that the item description mechanic did not make it into the vanilla game even after the mod gained popularity is also compelling evidence imo. While games being descriptive does sound pretty basic, slay the spire I think does a good job of wording things consistently that account for most of the interesting interactions you may encounter, Mark of the Bloom with lizard tail and fairy bottle being one of the more iconic ones. Not sure if the games you’re referring came out before or after Spire because Spire is one of the first in its niche genre and inspired many deck roguelites after (as the video mentions), but I’ve played Magic the Gathering on tabletop simulator with others before and would frequently be confused by another keyword that I was either never introduced to before or have been introduced, forgot, and now have to be told by someone else in the party or search it up myself online. It was not an enjoyable experience. Yes, MtG has a lot of words on the cards, but not every concept would be explained because limited space. Slay the Spire originating as an online game allows them that space to put explanations outside of the cards when you hover over them in your deck Gist: being descriptive does not equal being clear, and Spire is both clear and descriptive while also being concise. That is what I think is worth noting. You can really see the difference in the wording of the vanilla game if you’ve also played the game with modded content/characters
@@cameronschyuder9034 Yes the quality of the descriptions themselves is very impressive, what I think is just standard is the fact that there are descriptions. It'd be very difficult to make a good card game where effects and interactions are as vague as TBOI items. I just want to say that it doesn't make sense to compare the two on these terms (and that it was intentional in TBOI)
There are many card games that fail that measure. I played a game I know has been praised a lot, Wingspan, for the first time a week ago. One card had the text "play its food cost", another had the text "play its food and egg cost" - but we had a hunch, so we checked the rules, and sure enough, you were supposed to pay the egg and food cost in both cases! One thing I grew to hate in board games was sloppily written rules. It was more common than not. Dominion, which was cited as an inspiration for StS in this video, is a rare example of a game that is extremely rigorously defined (the guy who made it is a programmer, and basically a genius one), so that there's no jank or unclear things. Slay the Spire of course is a computer game so it's made by programmers, but still it isn't actually perfect in that regard. There are things which the game doesn't tell you, for instance that certain random card choices will never offer you healing. You understand why they made it so, it was to prevent the optimal strategy from being an easy but time-consuming one. But when they made that balance change, they didn't change any card text, so it's something that SHOULD work from the mechanics of the game as described on the cards, but doesn't.
I believe one of the in-game tips (which appear at the bottom of card reward screens) actually does tell you that cards generated during combat cannot heal you. Other tips also provide more info of this sort. Of course, the game doesn’t tell you absolutely everything (I don’t know a single game that really does) but it does tell you this.
@@Bobber_The_Wise That's equivalent to putting it in the rules errata at the back of the guide. Or maybe to put it as image text in the rulebook. It's undeniably messy/sloppy rules. I mentioned Dominion as a game that avoids that: there are extremely few "corner cases" where it's not obvious what the rules demand that you do, and there are no cases like in Slay the Spire (or Wingspan) where "the card says that, but that's not strictly speaking accurate"
I'd love to hear more in-depth examples of how they leveraged play-tester telemetry data to tweak mechanics, enemy behavior, and card/relic statistics. It's incredible and wonderful to discover how every card (even clash!) has its shining moments. I'll bet there were many threads of common and unique experiences and journeys through the game the playtesters shared w/ Casey and Anthony. Examining all those logs was probably impossible, but in aggregate maybe they found patterns, and the give-and-take of responding to player's failures, frustrations, and successes probably helped shape the strategic, emergent gameplay/meta we see today: preparing for deadly enemies we've seen before, we know what they'll do on each turn, by scrapping together solutions. This is the biggest reason the game is so immensely replayable. The game is brutally difficult, even at low levels for many players. But also patient, not just fair. You keep playing and you soon realize (just as the in-game characters do) "I've seen this fight before. I know what to do now." And becomes: "I know what's coming. I'm not sure what I'll have by then, but I can prepare."
I have over 400 hours in the video game, and then I got the board game. I played the board game 12 times the first week I got it. I might like it even more.
The final boss of Slay the Spire is really well balanced, its abilities make it resist infinites and challenge overpowered strategies, but it still allows you to use any strategy against it instead of completely shutting down a specific playstyle.
I have ~1500 hours in this game across two platforms, and it's dethroned FTL as my favorite roguelite and is firmly in my top 5 games of all time. To this day A20H runs humble me most of the time. I never knew a single-player game without endless content updates could have this much depth. Unless StS2 renders the first game obsolete, I don't know if I'll ever stop playing it.
The beauty of the mechanical design. StS is the last game I can remember that put a smile on my face and a synapse storm in my head right from the start. I can't believe it's been 7 years. Before that it was probably Minecraft. For all the games I've played in my life, there really aren't _that_ many that left a lasting impression on me, and I think that it's mainly due to two factors. A: Games can be a lot of things and a lot of those things I hardly even consider a game (Total Biscuit RIP tried to define it back in the day). And B: A lot of the games I do consider games are simply sloppily designed, or designed with a different purpose in mind than the game mechanical design for itself. I'm a little bit too lazy to play StS endlessly. Once you get past your ascension personal best scores and so on, you start to approach Lifecoach territory, where you have to crunch the game so hard it starts to feel like work. Whenever I play it now, I play it just to see what kind of semi forced craziness I can get going on the seed. It rarely works out, but it's still installed on my drive.
Great work on the video, it's clear you put in quite a bit of effort. I've reached the point where StS is a well worn and comfortable blanket, between the various devices it's hard to gauge how many hours I've put in. My basic approach is to just cycle through each character after every win, evenly climbing up to A20 on all characters, then resetting the profile and starting over. Oddly enough I rarely fight the heart because I find it unfun, but that's the beauty of the game; there's so many ways to enjoy it.
Was hooked for about 2 years..Lately Slice and dice and Balatro have taken over, but when the sequel comes out I looking forward to getting stuck in again
@@coffeedude It definitely has a tough skill ceiling and entryway, especially for people who haven't played any deck builder. Just don't be disheartened if you are having trouble, its a hard game at its core, and one with a long way to go, before you become good and get rewarded. Its very rewarding so its worth the journey. If having too much trouble, don't hesitate to check reddit sources or a good streamer to get advice on how to get better and second guess what you may have been doing wrong. Depth is immense, but player kinda needs to want to get better, to have a chance and that takes time, knowledge and practice. Cheers!
Sometimes you just don’t get the cards you need on higher ascensions and it does feel like you did most things right and it didn’t work out for you. Sure, this can be mitigated greatly by having more game knowledge. That’s the “funstration” that drives people to play this game to death!
Love the game but I don’t think it makes losing fun. Maybe early on, but A20 is so brutal that it actually puts me off from wanting to play the game when I string together losses. Comparatively, Monster Train, feels better to lose for me. Because the cause of my defeat is so apparent and so often “I got greedy”
Not only that, since you can see which (versions of) bosses you're facing, you can just not go for a build that gets obliterated by one of the bosses. Compared to StS where some builds are heavily punished if you randomly roll a specific boss later on.
I've played lots of rogue like deck builders and had just as much fun each one I like scratches a different itch. - Monster Train - One step from Eden - Ratropolis - Inscryption Kaycees Mod - Balatro
2,887 hours in StS as of today. I still play 5 or 6 times per week. I rotate between Ironclad, Silent and Defect as I don't enjoy playing Watcher. I've climbed the ladder from A0 to A20 many times, in fact rotating ladder is my favorite way to play so I've deleted and recreated my profiles multiple times. For those who aren't aware, rotating ladder is when you start at A0 with Ironclad, play until you win or at least unlock A1, move on to Silent and do the same, then to Defect (can include Watcher if you like but I don't), then back to Ironclad on A1...rinse repeat until you win A20 with all characters. Very fun, it let's you learn all the characters who play pretty differently from each other but share the same types of challenges. The difficulty starts out pretty forgiving at A0 but slowly ramps up to become very difficult by the time you hit A17 and higher. Love this game.
Sometimes I feel like an extreme outlier for thinking that Spire is merely ok. I've played it, I didn't hate it, but it just doesn't appeal to me as deeply as other games. I love card games, I even love other deck build roguelikes like Monster Train or Nowhere Prophet, but Spire just doesn't grab me in the same way. Sometimes I just feel completely deranged in not being able to see the same appeal in it as most other people I've talked to about the game.
I feel you. I played it for a few hours and got through a few runs, but it doesn't grab me. I think it's because I played other similar games first, that took heavy inspiration from StS, like Cobalt Core and Backpack Hero, which I've sunk lots of time into. There's something to be said for the aesthetics, too.
I love Slay the Spire, but I understand the feeling of not liking a popular game. I think Red Dead Redemption 2 is just OK too. It happens, sometime a game doesn't strike the same chords with us that they do with the majority of people.
No, your take is valid. Even as someone who spent a LOT of time on Spire, I've found I enjoy the other games in the genre (I have at least a dozen installed at any one time) more than the OG.
I do appreciate that they made this a single player game, while also allowing leader boards for daily challenges since it gives you the best of both worlds. In comparison, there many card games i would like to play but i don't have anyone to play with so i can only watch other people play it. As for other card games like StS, as mentioned they are interesting for all of a couple of runs then i don't feel like i need to play it anymore after finishing the main story on the game play loops, or after i finish unlocking everything. That said, deck building games scratches that itch from when i played yugioh in the past, letting me build the decks i want based on random drafts and just go at a higher difficulty with it, so i dont mind grabbing new ones just to check it out, then going back to StS for a daily run.
Recently the Slay the Spire Boardgame came out and it is a blast that can be played fully cooperative up to 4 players or true solo :D They adapted the cards for a more suitable board game feel but totally retained the strategy and overall feel of the game including unlocking the Heart and 20 ascension levels. There is even a way to create random dailies ^^. We love it to bits currently ^^ (otherwise highest char is lvl17 all others above 14 in the app)
As someone who just started playing Slay The Spire and has fallen in love with it, this video provides fantastic context for why this game feels so great to play. Amazing work!
Great video. I have 2k hours of STS on Steam. When I first started playing this game I was so obsessed I would literally fall asleep playing it just trying over and over to try and get my first win. Cannot wait for STS 2.
I'm glad that this video shines a light on Dream Quest and its influence on StS. I interviewed Peter Whalen on my channel last month. I personally think that had the card artwork not been a sticking point for many people, it may very well have beaten Spire to the punch on being the 'breakout' roguelike deck-builder. Excellent analysis!
i ve got 1400 hours, it was the perfect game to play along online lectures, because there is no timepressure and no need to focus all that much on the game, simply perfect
I have been playing slay the Spire since it's beta, and at this point it has become a surity that I will return to the game every few months for a another fevered few weeks of avid play. Getting it on my phone this time round has made that all the more prominent. I never understood why this one game was so much better, but now I can truly appreciate the elegance.
350 hours. I adore this game and the fact nobody else has come close to making a game like it really shows how well the devs did in balancing everything while keeping every run you play unique. A lot of runs you just get got, some runs are hard fought, and every now and then, you get those golden runs where certain builds fall in place and you feel unstoppable. Slay the Spire is a masterpiece.
1000+ hours A0 and A20 difficulty feel like different games with the latter showcasing Slay the Spire at peak performance. It's just such a well tuned experience that makes you really notice flaws in other games and let's you appreciate the dance you have to perform leading up to the final heart battle.
i just bought this game about a week and a half ago and i'm already at like 80 hours. i'm normally a "cozy gamer" but this is by far one of the most addicting games i've ever played, and i've been playing video games for 25 years
Very nice video that a lot of StS players should watch. I was mostly aware of what's being said but it would be extremely informative to many other players. I have about 2000 hours, maybe a little less. I discovered it on Switch and now years later I migrated to Steam Deck and got the game a second time (I'm going through ascensions again) I learned about parts of the Early Access process retrospectively and it made me want to be part of it for the next game, which is something, since I usually prefer to buy finished games. I tried Downfall and it felt bloated and not as well balanced to me. I ended up replaying the main game a lot more instead.
I like monster train more, and i played it A LOT (i played Slay the spire earlier too, got 15 ascend in every character and it's just feels boring to me. I like combination of classes, and i like balance in it, yeah, i still going to winstreak 25 ascend with different build every time, but i won't say it unbalanced. Yeah you can span one strategy, some runs it would be worse but still, but what i really like that it's almost always challenging, you (almost) can't make infinite loop in monster train when you can make infinite energy and draw in 1/5 runs on deffect. And i had many fun builds that breaking in this one fight. I had like mob that can create copy of itself when it get hit. And i stacked 7000 armor on all enemies because it has effect that procs when unit dies, Monster train could easily broke many decks just by ONE enemy and divinity DLC just made it MUCH MORE NOTICEBLE, i love this dlc so much, it brings so many combinations to your playstyle that could be broke by that one enemy or boss. Well, for me personally Monster Train > Slay the spire and i wanna come back to this game over and over again.
I am only playing this game for like a month. And I have to say, that I've never experienced a game as accessible as Slay the Spire. From minute 0 I understood how the game works. Very clear design!
Been playing this game for almost 4 years I think and it’s still the game I play the most till this day. Perfectly balanced. Might wait about 3 months after 2 comes out to buy that one so I get ahead on the balancing updates.
20:23 "Making losing not frustrating, but fun. When you lose in Slay the Spire, it never feels like the game's fault" *Proceeds to show the exception to this rule, Time Eater*
Enemies can be hard-counters. Play Defect with a full-on power build and face the Awakened One, tell us how that felt. Or Donu and Deca when you are Silent with Poison and no Corpse Explosion.
15:43 "so the player can deduce all the necessary information from the first glance" proceed to show the cursed tome event, which hide the outcome from the player
@@KrivitskyMhard-counters forcing you to always pre-emptively avoid certain powerful combos to be safe does cut some fun off the game. No wonder Vault of the Void lets you know all the bosses and elites beforehand
@@revimfadli4666 Honestly I think that they aren't exactly hard counters. I've played 12 cards a turn every turn against time eater and still easily beaten the damage race. I've played power heavy decks against the awakened one and come out on top. Having enemies with powerful mechanics like this just means you need to ensure your deck has a solution, not that you need to avoid a playstyle altogether. If you're playing high volume card spam, time eater mostly means you need to Think More about your choices, and same with powers against Awakened One. And you have an entire act to prepare for whoever you're going against
I like slay the spire but ironically I played a game inspired from it called rougebook first and I personally think that game is so much more because it feels like there's so much more I can do to my deck along with the exploration of the hexagon map before fights.
I have a savefile with 90 hours that has been tainted with a lot of mods, and I made a new savefile with less mods and have like 35 hours on that one. I.can safely say that this is probably my favorite game ever, and definitely my favorite roguelike/deckbuilder game. I can't wait for StS2
STS really is just so addictive. Over 500 hours played and still haven't touched modded content yet. Even now i am still learning better ways to play and card combos with each character that i haven't explored yet to the fullest extent.
I've got a few hundred hours in STS, such a great game but for me personally I put Monster Train a little higher, I find just a little more replayability in Monster Train with the combining two clans
In your catalogue of games, I have not seen Indie's Lies. It is somewhat comparable to Slay the Spire, but every dungeon you finish, you can pick another adventurer, so you have up to 3 members. And all of their cards is in your deck. That what makes it complex, since I believe in the Slay the Spire, it only revolves around your characters cards and it's easy to manage. Though that mechanics is optional and you can still go on your way as a solo adventurer. Try Indie's Lies. You'll never regret it. It's free on mobile but the DLC are paid but in Steam, you have to buy it.
Never tried it! I do love rogue like deck builders but I honestly never felt the pull to get into slay the spire specifically. To the slay the spire players though, if you would humor my recommendation dispute never playing sts, I would recommend Hellcard. Though the encounters are different in number and player power, it essentially functions like multiplayer slay the spire. Very fun with friends, and decently fun solo. Found it recently bc they do free weekends semi frequently. I’m sure if you love sts, you might find it appealing!
I barely discovered this game about 5 months ago… only put in about 120 hours. But yeah, I’m pretty obsessed with it lol It’s a great game with unlimited possibilities. Can’t wait for the second one
Some of the mods are legit masterpieces. I love how modding in general makes sequel games almost like a joint collab between devs and gamers, throwing out ideas through their releases
144 hours and counting, one game that i came back every year, and alsonow understand why i watch so much videos of runs of slay the spire omg, its because itsso easy to underestund a run while you watch, awesome to know
I've put thousands of hours in. On A20, reaching a point of mastery (ie you don't only win when you get a 'lucky' run) is ridiculously challenging and rewarding. The game's skill ceiling is absurdly high.
I played until I unlocked the silent. Beat a run with her. Haven't touched the game since. I enjoyed my time with the game, but have no urge to return. I watch videos like this to try and understand why people invest so much time into this game, but I just don't get it.
I think I’m at about 1,800 hours all on mobile 😂 I’ve shown so many friends, and shown so many friends who already play why I keep playing. It definitely became my favorite game of all time once I started winning on A20 sometimes. Really looking forward to StS2
Just picked the game up two days ago and I can already tell it's one of THOSE games. I wish it had more characters to unlock, I'd frankly prefer a dlc for this game rather than a whole new other game.
Yes I will. When Slay the Spire 2 comes out
Same tbh
Why not both? 😎
I really hope they bring back the watcher archetype as that is all I play. Though, tbh, theres shouldn't be any reason why they wouldn't, it's a pretty unique archetype that requires, appropriately enough, blind deck foresight
i hope it has coop, slay the spire has a coop mod called together in spire and it’s so so fun
darkest dungeon 2 is a thing so I wouldn't bet on a sequel scratching the same itch.
For me it's also the simplicity of STS that makes it so good. Cards' texts are simple, keywords are limited, and synergies don't feel forced. Most games that tried to imitate or improve it tried to added too many layers of complexity which made them less pleasant to play because of mental overload.
I definitely understand. I love alina of the arena but I barely play it because it's so hard to be on point for long enough to finish a run and try and close out the final boss. Like, I love that death coins carry over between rounds because that encourages people to try their best to push through another boss or the other stuff that gives coins I forget even when you think a run is doomed.
And when the combat works it's truly electric. I have never had a more satisfying turn in any other roguelike than the highest highs of this game because when you juggle a crossbow, broadsword, and dagger, and sheild over the course of a single fight between your two hands it makes you feel like a stylish swashbuckler. Like here's a few situations that just mentally pop off: slashing at a horde of spiders surrounding you with a broadsword. Throwing a rock into an illusionust's face and having him disappear revealing that was just a clone and charging over to deliver the killing blow to the real boss before he manages to start summoning in more. Repeatedly breaking the caster's shield but leaving them alive to force them to drain more of their brutes life to restore it. Only landing the killing blow when you can put both of them down in the same turn to avoid the enraged fight entirely.
😍
@@solsystem1342 Thanks for that comment, I downloaded the demo and will try it out.
Have a great day :D
@@solsystem1342 Bought the game, thanks for the great recommendation.
It's been a blast so far.
Two-handed is harder at first, since the weapons are locked for the turn when you use them, but that only adds to the great tactical decisions for this turn and the next.
Thanks again, I'm happy to have learned about this game ^^
Forreal! I tried so hard to like Monster Train
@@ignas358 I do like monster train, but the enemies especially do feel like they're still the first idea they came up with. None of them interact in interesting ways with different strategies.
And their relics don't feel like they've put in much effort either, with some of the energy relics carrying a run pretty much no matter what else you do. Like, "monster cards cost -1" would still be broken in most builds, but it's -2 instead, making all but 3 (i think) monsters completely free.
also having multiple bosses that look exactly alike doesn't help with learning the game.
I like that the bosses and elites are there to test out you deck's abilities - like the Act 1 elites and bosses are there to test your damage, Act 3 bosses each prohibit a different playstyle and force you to scale quickly - the Time Eater bans your infinites and forces you to play less cards, Donu and Deca scale really fast while flooding your deck with statuses and the Awakened One prohibits you from killing it in a burst while also hating powers, so setting up for the second phase is difficult. Then the Heart tests out your survivability in the first three turns and then scales so fast you need to adapt to that. All of the game's obstacles are designed so well, I love it.
Important correction regarding winnability! Forgotten Arbiter was not trying to prove how many seeds are winnable, merely to find one seed he could easily prove was definitely unwinnable. To do so, he set a very narrow set of criteria that he knew could set up an impossible early Lagavulin, then brute force searched for a seed with those exact criteria. This doesn't mean that every other seed is definitely winnable, just that he didn't find another seed with that exact Lagavulin fight.
Proving how many other seeds are winnable is pretty much combinatorically impossible to solve. All we know is that there is *at least* one seed that we could successfully prove to be unwinnable.
Just started playing in 2024 cant believe ive been missing out on such an addicting game for so long
I got this game at GameStop for 5 dollar and getting this game has
been the gaming choice I have done this year
I started playing in February and already have clocked 350 hours 😭
Tbh, this game is scary addictive... Time just flies when you play it.
25 hours in, still struggling with A0 spire heart with Watcher 😢 Feels so hard, but always a rush to start over, it's like a drug.
@@NikolaiPatiukov Yeah I agree it's months later after I put the game down and I still think about hopping back on to play it at least once or twice a week unlike other games
I have two thousand hours on this game. And after seeing this video, its just amazing how a team of only 2 people drove a beta process so amazing that put AAA studios to shame.
And the balancing may explain why I don't explain the mods so much. I respect the effort, but the balancing of vanilla it's unmatched
Watcher
wraith form and watcher are simply not balanced
Wonder if a combination of machine learning and patches could be used to balance the mods more efficiently at some point...
@@shrewdagency6588From what I've seen of AI trying to learn other games, it doesn't seem possible at this time. There's too many decision points, too many decision trees.
For example, it would take an AI a very long time to realize that the Hexaghost boss in Act 1 needs to be burned down quickly versus fighting The Guardian at a steady pace, or taking advantage of the way The Slime Boss splitting mechanic works.
The sheer variance of STS makes it difficult for a LLM to gather useful data.
@@LFielding07 yes perhaps the better strategy will be to just refine and mod on the current player dataset. Be interesting to see if someone works out a shortcut for this with the new tools available....
As a mainly YuGiOh player, a card game with no set rotation and like 10,000 cards, I definitely agree that it's best to keep the card pool manageable in order to facilitate both draft and a relatively friendly new player experience. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to get friends into YuGiOh and they look at the insane learning curve mixed with thousands of cards with paragraphs of text and say "yeah that's a no from me dawg" 😅😂
As a Yugo-boomer, I’d like to recommend Pokemon TCG; it’s simple, it’s still complex, and it’s the most popular game in the world for a reason; oh, and it’s less than 60$ to get a competitive deck at minimum-rarity. After that, try Supershow SRG; my wife hates all things fantasy or games but will actually play that game with me. Not for you, mind you, I’m aware that modern Yugioh players are indoctrinated. For your friends who you want to play with!
and almost all of those cards are useless
@@Ghorda9 for the most part I'd say you're right, but there are cards that will suddenly become insane after being useless since they released. Cards like "smoke grenade of the thief" and "appointer of the red lotus" come to mind right off the dome
I entered Yugioh when zexal anime was out ie XYZ summons. Then the game still felt manageable despite some decks clearly being meta, also this was played in an improv client unlike today. I tried reentering a year or two ago because I do really love the game but it just turned into first turn draw for me. Every third game was either lost or won on the 3rd round, mostly dependent on how many handtraps you have. That is stupid. I played Phantom Knights and even then felt a bit overwhelmed with the combo sheet. Imagine my surprise when I opened DDD combo sheet...
The game is going to die once this generation drops it which I hope will be soon cuz Konami are greedy af
I've had the binding of Isaac game for years and I've never played it once with anybody. People just don't like card games casually.
StS is the closest any videogame has ever come to perfection.
Not saying it's the 100% best, but it's the most flawless in it's genre
It's definitely the goat game
Only thing I can think of is slightly outdated graphics but who cares when the game play is so addicting
It’s a 9/10 that would be a 10/10 if the visuals and music didn’t suck
@@vitorcustodio5899 If they had like 2 more playable characters and a 2-3 more enemy types and 2-3 more random encounters and a 1-2 extra bosses maybe 5 more relics would have done a lot for the longevity also but can't complain since there's mods to do this just woulda been nice in the base game
The important thing is it had really good foundations. They set other developers up for failure because the only option is to add more on top of sts solid foundation and every addition affects that structural integrity. A good example is Pirate Outlaws, a game I enjoy, but they throw like a dozen characters at you that all play very differently. It just feels kind of messy and overwhelming contrasted to sts super elegant stripped down design.
I have roughly 275 hours in Slay the Spire. Not the highest amount for me or for any player of this game, but I had SO much fun. I kinda want to replay it lol.
I completed the game in Ascension 20 + Heart with the Defect, reached A20 with Ironclad as well. It's amazing how you can make the same deck concept with common key core cards but a way different run and win conditions sometimes. Or even make a completely different deck that is actually strong enough to make you overcome all the diverse difficulties a run can offer.
BTW, the April 2024 spike of players was because they announced Slay the Spire 2 in that same month. It's actually crazy
Can you please give me some tips? I want to play it, I just am so bad at it.
@@coopstain1728 1) Take your time to analyze the optimal path at the start of an Act.
Every character has its weaknesses so it depends on what you're playing of course. In general, Act 1 should consist in more fights rather than events because you want card rewards. This lets you have a wider array of card choices later because you start to develop your strategy earlier this way.
You ideally want to take on Elites. Depending on the character you're playing though, some elite fights will be harder or easier. Your game knowledge will lead you to prepare for specific elite fights in some acts, depending on your class and deck.
Look for Campfires. Upgrading cards is good, and having a Campfire just after an Elite fight is a godsent.
Don't pursue shops too early in Act 1. You actually want to delay a shop as much as possible in Act 1.. Imagine entering a shop with not enough gold to buy relevant cards. You basically miss 2 opportunities, because you waste that shop and most importantly you don't get any reward from that encounter. Some relics are also shop-only and only appear once in your run.
This point was very long but it's very important.
2) Always value cards in terms of synergies. There are some bad cards in Slay the Spire, but for starters you can trust in the balance of the game and try out different strategies. You'll gain enough game knowledge to recognize where some strategies win and why some strategies fail. There are very few cards that are actually super powerful by themselves. Most of them are super powerful against a certain type of enemy so it's not like they're absolute powerhouses without taking card synergies in account.
3) I suggest to stick to a character until you win a run. You get to unlock new stuff, learn how the character plays out and you give yourself enough time to explore a fair amount of possibilities
@@KhristianBolano Wow.. Thank you so much! This is extremely helpful and better than anything I could find online. I really appreciate you.
@@coopstain1728 if you want a specific guide for the ironclad, look up the Ascension 20 Ironclad Guide by Panacea (or someone called like that). It's a Google document so you can read it when you need it. It's great for Ascension 20 (the highest difficulty of the game) so of course it's valid for the whole ironclad gameplay. It's going to be way easier than the guide says of course, but the actual basics of the game expecially for the Ironclad are there.
In fact, that guide made me learn much about the game that led me to complete Ascension 20 with the Defect first lol
@@KhristianBolano you a real one 🤙
I'm at 1k+ hours now across PC, PS and iOS. I didn't think I'd ever have a 'forever' game, a game I could always replay, but StS is that for me. I've done tons of A20 runs on all characters but even then I still always come back. It never gets old, it may be my favorite game of all time. The sequel has some mighty big shoes to fill.
I've just crossed 1000 hours. I'm at A20 with all characters, but I really, really dislike the watcher. Still haven't beat the heart with that character
I always return to Dream Quest. To me a more fun, more unpredictable experience. And I love its short sessions, and the immediate readability of its simple card art. My forever game. Playing StS afterwards, it simply didn‘t get me hooked.
I have about 30 hours on Steam, where I first played it... but then I got it on mobile, where I'm now at 475 hrs lmao, this game is practically my daily driver. Most of my pals agree that Slay the Spire is probably the best "desert island" game to pick for many of the reasons you outline here. ("If you were stuck on an island with only one game, what would you take?")
Also it s offline game
Can you give me some tips? I am so bad at it but I want to play it. I guess I dont know synergies or something.
@coopstain1728 I dunno what level of tips you're looking for or how general or specific, but to be safe here's a few tips that really help me keep havin a good time:
Don't underestimate the value of things that give you more draw / scry / discard / exhaust (deck/hand control). Being able to get the cards you need in your hand (draw / scry) and get rid of the ones you don't want (discard / exhaust) is suuuuper useful.
Part of the fun of synergies is discovering them, and a good way to do this is to focus on solving the problem in front of you (have you been short on attack cards? Have you been struggling with groups of enemies? What's the path ahead like? etc). Thinking about it this way might get you to pick up some cards you hadn't considered taking before. Sometimes that card that sounded so unappealing the first few times you saw it ends up becoming a favorite, deck-defining card after playing around with it a few times, so don't be afraid to experiment. (But that doesn't mean you shouldn't skip card rewards if there's nothing you need / that fits whatcha got, definitely don't want to bloat your deck up).
And finally - might sound a little bleak lol, but don't get too wrapped up or invested in any given run, there's no shame at all in dying and failure doesn't need to be stressful! "Oh no! Anyway". Be sad that cool deck you had is gone, but look forward to putting another cool one together next run!
Anyhow, sorry if I went overboard but I hope this helps and I hope you have fun! Lemme know if you do wanna know more (general stuff like this or character specific stuff or whatever). I'm not super good and I lose a shitload of runs but I like to talk a lot, so.
Edit: Oh, also: Never take clash. Always take claw. Claw is law.
@@coopstain1728 focus on learning over winning and experiment a lot
@@coopstain1728sometimes the best card to take is "skip"
The Slay the Spire boardgame is also pretty good. While it doesn't offer any new content it is fun to play this beloved game cooperatively.
They spent hours tweaking, balancing the game, and adding different strategies. Instead of spending millions of dollars on graphics and marketing, they put love and work into the actual gameplay. What companies used to do before they became greedy mega corps.
The defect thunder sound effect scratch that itch in me every time I play em. The witch doctor shivs build also makes me go crazy by how fun it is to just clicking many cards all at once and see my game lagging is pretty fun
1300 hours. Used to play a lot of MtG mainly for the deckbuilding and the draft format, but the pay-to-win nature of it and the need for an opponent eventually drove me away. You pay hundreds for good decks/cards, and get to use them once a week if you're lucky. Even online people would do messed up stuff like go afk when they realize they're losing instead of just conceding so you have to wait out the full 25 mins of their clock. StS fixed almost all of the design issues with MtG such as mana screw/flood, and got rid of having to wait on an opponent. It also has this perfect easy to learn, difficult to master complexity. You pay 15 bucks when it's on sale, one time, and you can play StS infinitely. That's just the vanilla version. Certainly my favorite game of all time as of writing this.
I have just recently gotten in mtga it really doesn't have a great beginner experience. the salty opponent and better cards a beginner has to deal with is bad.
@@FrescaLife as an old MtG enjoyer of the 90s and 00s (physical game), I couldn't agree more. There were so many issues with the multiplayer pay2win format of these games plus design issues.
Slay the spire is all I ever wanted from a game. The deckbuilder to end all deckbuilders and literally being able to play this perfection for our whole lives if we choose so.
2000 hours and about half of those are with modded characters. It's stupid how good this game is.
Character made this game even more fun! I feel for those non-PC StS players 😅
Seeing their story makes me hope the an indie group would pick me to be their musician 😂
I love this game , but I love that the devs stuck with it for so long even more!
I know this may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm not a fan of the music in Slay the Spire. It's pretty cliched dramatic orchestra music. Many indie games were helped in their success with great music, Slay the Spire wasn't - which makes the other elements of the game all the more impressive.
This was one of the first games that I 100% unlocked the achievements. Now I sleep with dreams of making a similar game
Wow this is a crazy high quality how does this guy not have more subs
Casey is probably the best expert in equilibrating a video game.
Dead cells and slay the spire were the first games I bought on Steam. Although I had played hundreds of hours of pirated games before that. These games made me think "I want to pay the developers money". And since then, I've only played games I've bought)
There's no shame in making do with what you have. Many of us have been there for one reason or another.
Well. tbf, you are lucky those two were your first games. If i would say 2 games that are basically close to perfection are those two, unless you dislike the genre (cards, or roguelike)
@@robenriven no I was gamer before but they were first that I bought. You may say it's coincidence that because on them I also spend my first earned money ^^
There isn’t another game that will ever be this simple yet completely genius.
according to steam i have 1115 hours in slay the spire, but I have it on my phone so its probably around 1500 or so. Great video loved learning the history of the game.
I don't think that the original TBOI was obscure about what items did by mistake, to me it was clearly a part of the experience Ed was going for and I personally think it was a very interesting and fun choice.
And while StS has no shortage of impressive design choices, I don't see that one as particularly impressive; things being descriptive is just a basic part of any card game.
Yes, I believe Ed’s intent was confirmed somewhere by himself; the fact that the item description mechanic did not make it into the vanilla game even after the mod gained popularity is also compelling evidence imo.
While games being descriptive does sound pretty basic, slay the spire I think does a good job of wording things consistently that account for most of the interesting interactions you may encounter, Mark of the Bloom with lizard tail and fairy bottle being one of the more iconic ones.
Not sure if the games you’re referring came out before or after Spire because Spire is one of the first in its niche genre and inspired many deck roguelites after (as the video mentions), but I’ve played Magic the Gathering on tabletop simulator with others before and would frequently be confused by another keyword that I was either never introduced to before or have been introduced, forgot, and now have to be told by someone else in the party or search it up myself online. It was not an enjoyable experience. Yes, MtG has a lot of words on the cards, but not every concept would be explained because limited space. Slay the Spire originating as an online game allows them that space to put explanations outside of the cards when you hover over them in your deck
Gist: being descriptive does not equal being clear, and Spire is both clear and descriptive while also being concise. That is what I think is worth noting. You can really see the difference in the wording of the vanilla game if you’ve also played the game with modded content/characters
@@cameronschyuder9034 Yes the quality of the descriptions themselves is very impressive, what I think is just standard is the fact that there are descriptions. It'd be very difficult to make a good card game where effects and interactions are as vague as TBOI items. I just want to say that it doesn't make sense to compare the two on these terms (and that it was intentional in TBOI)
There are many card games that fail that measure. I played a game I know has been praised a lot, Wingspan, for the first time a week ago. One card had the text "play its food cost", another had the text "play its food and egg cost" - but we had a hunch, so we checked the rules, and sure enough, you were supposed to pay the egg and food cost in both cases!
One thing I grew to hate in board games was sloppily written rules. It was more common than not. Dominion, which was cited as an inspiration for StS in this video, is a rare example of a game that is extremely rigorously defined (the guy who made it is a programmer, and basically a genius one), so that there's no jank or unclear things.
Slay the Spire of course is a computer game so it's made by programmers, but still it isn't actually perfect in that regard. There are things which the game doesn't tell you, for instance that certain random card choices will never offer you healing. You understand why they made it so, it was to prevent the optimal strategy from being an easy but time-consuming one. But when they made that balance change, they didn't change any card text, so it's something that SHOULD work from the mechanics of the game as described on the cards, but doesn't.
I believe one of the in-game tips (which appear at the bottom of card reward screens) actually does tell you that cards generated during combat cannot heal you. Other tips also provide more info of this sort. Of course, the game doesn’t tell you absolutely everything (I don’t know a single game that really does) but it does tell you this.
@@Bobber_The_Wise That's equivalent to putting it in the rules errata at the back of the guide. Or maybe to put it as image text in the rulebook. It's undeniably messy/sloppy rules. I mentioned Dominion as a game that avoids that: there are extremely few "corner cases" where it's not obvious what the rules demand that you do, and there are no cases like in Slay the Spire (or Wingspan) where "the card says that, but that's not strictly speaking accurate"
I own it on 4 separate platforms, and the board game too. So many hours, and i frequently start it up instead of games on my growing back log lmao
I'd love to hear more in-depth examples of how they leveraged play-tester telemetry data to tweak mechanics, enemy behavior, and card/relic statistics. It's incredible and wonderful to discover how every card (even clash!) has its shining moments. I'll bet there were many threads of common and unique experiences and journeys through the game the playtesters shared w/ Casey and Anthony. Examining all those logs was probably impossible, but in aggregate maybe they found patterns, and the give-and-take of responding to player's failures, frustrations, and successes probably helped shape the strategic, emergent gameplay/meta we see today: preparing for deadly enemies we've seen before, we know what they'll do on each turn, by scrapping together solutions.
This is the biggest reason the game is so immensely replayable. The game is brutally difficult, even at low levels for many players. But also patient, not just fair. You keep playing and you soon realize (just as the in-game characters do) "I've seen this fight before. I know what to do now." And becomes: "I know what's coming. I'm not sure what I'll have by then, but I can prepare."
Many other games have too much variance (in which learning doesn't come naturally), or too little (there's not as much to learn).
There’s a good GDC talk about slay the spire I recommend you watch. They go into the data analytics side of how they used data to balance the game.
A lot of the analysis afaik was just pick rates : win rates. They also did that for events too
what a great analysis! Now I know excactly why StS is currently my favourite game for like 3 years already
I have over 400 hours in the video game, and then I got the board game. I played the board game 12 times the first week I got it. I might like it even more.
totally! the board game is so good!
The final boss of Slay the Spire is really well balanced, its abilities make it resist infinites and challenge overpowered strategies, but it still allows you to use any strategy against it instead of completely shutting down a specific playstyle.
I have ~1500 hours in this game across two platforms, and it's dethroned FTL as my favorite roguelite and is firmly in my top 5 games of all time. To this day A20H runs humble me most of the time. I never knew a single-player game without endless content updates could have this much depth. Unless StS2 renders the first game obsolete, I don't know if I'll ever stop playing it.
The beauty of the mechanical design. StS is the last game I can remember that put a smile on my face and a synapse storm in my head right from the start. I can't believe it's been 7 years. Before that it was probably Minecraft.
For all the games I've played in my life, there really aren't _that_ many that left a lasting impression on me, and I think that it's mainly due to two factors. A: Games can be a lot of things and a lot of those things I hardly even consider a game (Total Biscuit RIP tried to define it back in the day). And B: A lot of the games I do consider games are simply sloppily designed, or designed with a different purpose in mind than the game mechanical design for itself.
I'm a little bit too lazy to play StS endlessly. Once you get past your ascension personal best scores and so on, you start to approach Lifecoach territory, where you have to crunch the game so hard it starts to feel like work. Whenever I play it now, I play it just to see what kind of semi forced craziness I can get going on the seed. It rarely works out, but it's still installed on my drive.
Big agree with this, I’ve got 200 hours in slay the spire and around 300 In monster train they both are games I come back to regularly
Great work on the video, it's clear you put in quite a bit of effort. I've reached the point where StS is a well worn and comfortable blanket, between the various devices it's hard to gauge how many hours I've put in. My basic approach is to just cycle through each character after every win, evenly climbing up to A20 on all characters, then resetting the profile and starting over. Oddly enough I rarely fight the heart because I find it unfun, but that's the beauty of the game; there's so many ways to enjoy it.
Was hooked for about 2 years..Lately Slice and dice and Balatro have taken over, but when the sequel comes out I looking forward to getting stuck in again
>me watching this video having never played Slay the Spire:
😮
You have no idea how crazy good this is. Once in a lifetime game for sure.
I never played a deck builder but i bought the game yesterday, guess i'll see how it goes
@@coffeedude It definitely has a tough skill ceiling and entryway, especially for people who haven't played any deck builder. Just don't be disheartened if you are having trouble, its a hard game at its core, and one with a long way to go, before you become good and get rewarded. Its very rewarding so its worth the journey. If having too much trouble, don't hesitate to check reddit sources or a good streamer to get advice on how to get better and second guess what you may have been doing wrong. Depth is immense, but player kinda needs to want to get better, to have a chance and that takes time, knowledge and practice. Cheers!
The only bad thing I'll have to say about this review.... not once did you mention the absolute BANGER of the soundtrack.
Sometimes you just don’t get the cards you need on higher ascensions and it does feel like you did most things right and it didn’t work out for you. Sure, this can be mitigated greatly by having more game knowledge. That’s the “funstration” that drives people to play this game to death!
you get around that with versatile small decks that have the option to lean into a couple different strategies if needed.
Love the game but I don’t think it makes losing fun. Maybe early on, but A20 is so brutal that it actually puts me off from wanting to play the game when I string together losses.
Comparatively, Monster Train, feels better to lose for me. Because the cause of my defeat is so apparent and so often “I got greedy”
Not only that, since you can see which (versions of) bosses you're facing, you can just not go for a build that gets obliterated by one of the bosses. Compared to StS where some builds are heavily punished if you randomly roll a specific boss later on.
I've played lots of rogue like deck builders and had just as much fun each one I like scratches a different itch.
- Monster Train
- One step from Eden
- Ratropolis
- Inscryption Kaycees Mod
- Balatro
2,887 hours in StS as of today. I still play 5 or 6 times per week. I rotate between Ironclad, Silent and Defect as I don't enjoy playing Watcher.
I've climbed the ladder from A0 to A20 many times, in fact rotating ladder is my favorite way to play so I've deleted and recreated my profiles multiple times.
For those who aren't aware, rotating ladder is when you start at A0 with Ironclad, play until you win or at least unlock A1, move on to Silent and do the same, then to Defect (can include Watcher if you like but I don't), then back to Ironclad on A1...rinse repeat until you win A20 with all characters. Very fun, it let's you learn all the characters who play pretty differently from each other but share the same types of challenges. The difficulty starts out pretty forgiving at A0 but slowly ramps up to become very difficult by the time you hit A17 and higher.
Love this game.
Please give me some tips. I want to play it but I can never figure it out and I am terrible at it. :/
Sometimes I feel like an extreme outlier for thinking that Spire is merely ok. I've played it, I didn't hate it, but it just doesn't appeal to me as deeply as other games. I love card games, I even love other deck build roguelikes like Monster Train or Nowhere Prophet, but Spire just doesn't grab me in the same way. Sometimes I just feel completely deranged in not being able to see the same appeal in it as most other people I've talked to about the game.
I feel you. I played it for a few hours and got through a few runs, but it doesn't grab me. I think it's because I played other similar games first, that took heavy inspiration from StS, like Cobalt Core and Backpack Hero, which I've sunk lots of time into. There's something to be said for the aesthetics, too.
This is the accurate assessment. StS is ok.
I love Slay the Spire, but I understand the feeling of not liking a popular game. I think Red Dead Redemption 2 is just OK too. It happens, sometime a game doesn't strike the same chords with us that they do with the majority of people.
Same lol. Imo it's great to not fall asleep during university lectures, but I need something else when gaming at home.
No, your take is valid. Even as someone who spent a LOT of time on Spire, I've found I enjoy the other games in the genre (I have at least a dozen installed at any one time) more than the OG.
I do appreciate that they made this a single player game, while also allowing leader boards for daily challenges since it gives you the best of both worlds. In comparison, there many card games i would like to play but i don't have anyone to play with so i can only watch other people play it. As for other card games like StS, as mentioned they are interesting for all of a couple of runs then i don't feel like i need to play it anymore after finishing the main story on the game play loops, or after i finish unlocking everything. That said, deck building games scratches that itch from when i played yugioh in the past, letting me build the decks i want based on random drafts and just go at a higher difficulty with it, so i dont mind grabbing new ones just to check it out, then going back to StS for a daily run.
The only rougelike deck builder that made me feel the same as StS has been Balatro - not sure if I’ll reach the same 2K hours I have in StS though 😅
what about inscryption?
Recently the Slay the Spire Boardgame came out and it is a blast that can be played fully cooperative up to 4 players or true solo :D
They adapted the cards for a more suitable board game feel but totally retained the strategy and overall feel of the game including unlocking the Heart and 20 ascension levels. There is even a way to create random dailies ^^. We love it to bits currently ^^
(otherwise highest char is lvl17 all others above 14 in the app)
As someone who just started playing Slay The Spire and has fallen in love with it, this video provides fantastic context for why this game feels so great to play.
Amazing work!
Great video. I have 2k hours of STS on Steam. When I first started playing this game I was so obsessed I would literally fall asleep playing it just trying over and over to try and get my first win. Cannot wait for STS 2.
I'm glad that this video shines a light on Dream Quest and its influence on StS. I interviewed Peter Whalen on my channel last month. I personally think that had the card artwork not been a sticking point for many people, it may very well have beaten Spire to the punch on being the 'breakout' roguelike deck-builder. Excellent analysis!
i ve got 1400 hours, it was the perfect game to play along online lectures, because there is no timepressure and no need to focus all that much on the game, simply perfect
I have been playing slay the Spire since it's beta, and at this point it has become a surity that I will return to the game every few months for a another fevered few weeks of avid play. Getting it on my phone this time round has made that all the more prominent. I never understood why this one game was so much better, but now I can truly appreciate the elegance.
Less than 10 seconds in and I want to close the video to play Slay the Spire
350 hours. I adore this game and the fact nobody else has come close to making a game like it really shows how well the devs did in balancing everything while keeping every run you play unique. A lot of runs you just get got, some runs are hard fought, and every now and then, you get those golden runs where certain builds fall in place and you feel unstoppable. Slay the Spire is a masterpiece.
Netrunner shoutout
1000+ hours A0 and A20 difficulty feel like different games with the latter showcasing Slay the Spire at peak performance. It's just such a well tuned experience that makes you really notice flaws in other games and let's you appreciate the dance you have to perform leading up to the final heart battle.
Damn this reminds me I haven't played 5 runs of sts today
I have watched(slept) every StS video in Jorbs channel, so, this is speak for itself
I have this game on Steam, Android, and Switch. And I bought the board game through Kickstarter. Love this game.
Just hit a World Record on one of these games cool to see people are still talking about them!
i just bought this game about a week and a half ago and i'm already at like 80 hours. i'm normally a "cozy gamer" but this is by far one of the most addicting games i've ever played, and i've been playing video games for 25 years
Slay the Spire is hands down one of the best games out there. I hope the sequel is able to dethrone it!
Very nice video that a lot of StS players should watch. I was mostly aware of what's being said but it would be extremely informative to many other players.
I have about 2000 hours, maybe a little less. I discovered it on Switch and now years later I migrated to Steam Deck and got the game a second time (I'm going through ascensions again)
I learned about parts of the Early Access process retrospectively and it made me want to be part of it for the next game, which is something, since I usually prefer to buy finished games.
I tried Downfall and it felt bloated and not as well balanced to me. I ended up replaying the main game a lot more instead.
The core game design is masterful. Could use better art direction imo but I can get over the visuals for such great gameplay.
Dude. Thank you. Your analysis was so good. New sub. Hope you are killing it! Happy Spooky Season
I like monster train more, and i played it A LOT (i played Slay the spire earlier too, got 15 ascend in every character and it's just feels boring to me. I like combination of classes, and i like balance in it, yeah, i still going to winstreak 25 ascend with different build every time, but i won't say it unbalanced. Yeah you can span one strategy, some runs it would be worse but still, but what i really like that it's almost always challenging, you (almost) can't make infinite loop in monster train when you can make infinite energy and draw in 1/5 runs on deffect. And i had many fun builds that breaking in this one fight. I had like mob that can create copy of itself when it get hit. And i stacked 7000 armor on all enemies because it has effect that procs when unit dies, Monster train could easily broke many decks just by ONE enemy and divinity DLC just made it MUCH MORE NOTICEBLE, i love this dlc so much, it brings so many combinations to your playstyle that could be broke by that one enemy or boss. Well, for me personally Monster Train > Slay the spire and i wanna come back to this game over and over again.
If I'm being honest, STS is one of the only two games that I have routinely come back to again and again after I bought it.
What's the other?
@@gregorys9629 ULTRAKILL. I just keep coming back, no matter how many times I fail a P-rank or a CB run.
That game for me is FTL. Though Spire as well, but not as frequently. Somehow it didn't click the same way for me as it did for many others.
I am only playing this game for like a month. And I have to say, that I've never experienced a game as accessible as Slay the Spire. From minute 0 I understood how the game works. Very clear design!
If you like slay the spire, Dawncaster is a great game to try out.
Been playing this game for almost 4 years I think and it’s still the game I play the most till this day. Perfectly balanced. Might wait about 3 months after 2 comes out to buy that one so I get ahead on the balancing updates.
I saw 5 minutes of this video and now I'm playing Slay The Spire again... I'll be back for the rest of the video soon 😅
20:23
"Making losing not frustrating, but fun. When you lose in Slay the Spire, it never feels like the game's fault"
*Proceeds to show the exception to this rule, Time Eater*
Ah, the Clockwork Bastard. The only creature in the game I'm unhappy to see.
Enemies can be hard-counters. Play Defect with a full-on power build and face the Awakened One, tell us how that felt. Or Donu and Deca when you are Silent with Poison and no Corpse Explosion.
15:43 "so the player can deduce all the necessary information from the first glance" proceed to show the cursed tome event, which hide the outcome from the player
@@KrivitskyMhard-counters forcing you to always pre-emptively avoid certain powerful combos to be safe does cut some fun off the game.
No wonder Vault of the Void lets you know all the bosses and elites beforehand
@@revimfadli4666 Honestly I think that they aren't exactly hard counters. I've played 12 cards a turn every turn against time eater and still easily beaten the damage race. I've played power heavy decks against the awakened one and come out on top. Having enemies with powerful mechanics like this just means you need to ensure your deck has a solution, not that you need to avoid a playstyle altogether. If you're playing high volume card spam, time eater mostly means you need to Think More about your choices, and same with powers against Awakened One. And you have an entire act to prepare for whoever you're going against
Bro you have a chill voice, I subbed. Thank you for the vid.
Spot on. This game has limitless replay-ability and you nailed every reason.
Sitting at around 115 hours and still going. Im still working away at getting all characters to A20, and it's been really fun.
What an amazing video!! Love this game so much, waiting for StS2!!
I like slay the spire but ironically I played a game inspired from it called rougebook first and I personally think that game is so much more because it feels like there's so much more I can do to my deck along with the exploration of the hexagon map before fights.
I have a savefile with 90 hours that has been tainted with a lot of mods, and I made a new savefile with less mods and have like 35 hours on that one. I.can safely say that this is probably my favorite game ever, and definitely my favorite roguelike/deckbuilder game. I can't wait for StS2
Have played Slay the spire for over 600 hours total and bought it 5 times to different consoles and or as a gift! Cant wait for Sts2
STS really is just so addictive. Over 500 hours played and still haven't touched modded content yet. Even now i am still learning better ways to play and card combos with each character that i haven't explored yet to the fullest extent.
I've got a few hundred hours in STS, such a great game but for me personally I put Monster Train a little higher, I find just a little more replayability in Monster Train with the combining two clans
Knocking on the coffin lid is some of the closest I've seen to giving me that same feeling.
We are making a deckbuilding game with some friends, let's hope we come as near as possible to the levels of balance in SoS
In your catalogue of games, I have not seen Indie's Lies. It is somewhat comparable to Slay the Spire, but every dungeon you finish, you can pick another adventurer, so you have up to 3 members. And all of their cards is in your deck. That what makes it complex, since I believe in the Slay the Spire, it only revolves around your characters cards and it's easy to manage. Though that mechanics is optional and you can still go on your way as a solo adventurer. Try Indie's Lies. You'll never regret it. It's free on mobile but the DLC are paid but in Steam, you have to buy it.
I blame watching Northerlion miss play the game so much years ago it’s caused me to play over 1k hours in the game
Great video, you can see you did alot of research. Keep putting out content like this!
Never tried it! I do love rogue like deck builders but I honestly never felt the pull to get into slay the spire specifically. To the slay the spire players though, if you would humor my recommendation dispute never playing sts, I would recommend Hellcard. Though the encounters are different in number and player power, it essentially functions like multiplayer slay the spire. Very fun with friends, and decently fun solo. Found it recently bc they do free weekends semi frequently. I’m sure if you love sts, you might find it appealing!
I barely discovered this game about 5 months ago… only put in about 120 hours. But yeah, I’m pretty obsessed with it lol
It’s a great game with unlimited possibilities. Can’t wait for the second one
I am a big fan of slay the spire but balatro is as good or better i hope you try it.
Waiting slay the spire 2
Modding the spire added so much fun for me.
Love and blessings!
Some of the mods are legit masterpieces. I love how modding in general makes sequel games almost like a joint collab between devs and gamers, throwing out ideas through their releases
I have played Slay the Spire for zero hours! But this video was interesting and I'll put the game on my wishlist! :D
144 hours and counting, one game that i came back every year, and alsonow understand why i watch so much videos of runs of slay the spire omg, its because itsso easy to underestund a run while you watch, awesome to know
I have zero hours in Slay the Spire, but this video convinced me to pick it up.
This is an incredible video for an incredible game. Well done
I love the cloth on the go table to protect the wall🔥 These guys think ahead 😊
This channel reminds me of ThatGuyGlen also does indie game history deep dives. 👀
I've put thousands of hours in. On A20, reaching a point of mastery (ie you don't only win when you get a 'lucky' run) is ridiculously challenging and rewarding. The game's skill ceiling is absurdly high.
@5:10 one of my most memorable ironclad runs was dead branch and necromomicon and fiend fire.
I played until I unlocked the silent. Beat a run with her. Haven't touched the game since. I enjoyed my time with the game, but have no urge to return. I watch videos like this to try and understand why people invest so much time into this game, but I just don't get it.
lots of different ways you can beat it, each run is different and it's difficulty helps elevate it.
Same
I love the genre, but there are better options out there.
I think I’m at about 1,800 hours all on mobile 😂
I’ve shown so many friends, and shown so many friends who already play why I keep playing. It definitely became my favorite game of all time once I started winning on A20 sometimes. Really looking forward to StS2
Yeah, i still keep coming back, over 200 hours and still too stupid to kill the god damn heart lol! ;-D Thanks for the Video!
Just picked the game up two days ago and I can already tell it's one of THOSE games.
I wish it had more characters to unlock, I'd frankly prefer a dlc for this game rather than a whole new other game.