To me, Rouge's words "more precious than jewels" probably mean that she has become much more appreciative of life. After his rescue (three times) Rouge began to look at life differently.
For me Rouge's defining moment is when she pops out of nowhere with intel on Shadow / the Biolizard. You realize so abruptly that this silly, flirty, fun loving treasure hunter is ALSO a terrifyingly competent secret agent and that even you as the player have fallen for the trick. But it's also not entirely just a mask because she IS silly and flirty and fun loving, she's just really good at balancing those two halves of herself to the point where you're never really sure which half you're going to get in any given interaction. Also when she hangs upside down it's super cute. So there's that.
Rouge is one of my favorite characters in the franchise, because I absolutely love her personality in the games, her loyalty to her friends and team, the fact that she is the reason Team Dark even exists, and that she's highly skilled in her job that you can count on her to have some very fun espionage themed gameplay whenever she's involved. Imagine my confusion when I opened up a comic back in the day and she was trying to lock lips with Knuckles's dad. O_o
She literally became a yandere for knuckles. At the same time, she looks very bad in this image. She just wants knuckles just because she wants to piss off knuckles' girlfriend
I read a fanfic once where the Archie world got rebooted into the IDW world and after the characters from both worlds touched Nicole, they essentially had their Archie selves in their minds. They had a machine that let both sides talk about how they feel and which of them they think should be able to stay permanently. IDW Rouge considered Archie Rouge so bad that she fucking deleted her with the machine.
I’m not a big fan of how much home wrecker Rouge was in Pre Reboot Archie. Idw and Post Reboot Archie both understand and do a good job balancing Rouge’s Sneaky side with her genuine care for others
@Keisezrgs If preboot kept going despite the Penders lawsuit I think Rouge would have been successful Julie-su got suck away along with the rest of the echidnas that weren't Knuckles. Given some time Rouge would win Knuckles would move on eventually.
Rouge's constant usage as a middle point between Knuckles and Shadow's butting heads, meanwhile repeated and overtly used, it's an interesting dynamic at the end of the day as she has to put in a balance not only her values but also her relationship with the guy she likes and her closest friend.
Fun fact: She also has a crush on Shadow and while its not them fighting over her (neither of the guys likes her the same way, yes Knuckles does not return her feelings) and its not about which she likes better, but I like these 3 dynamic together better than Shadow being pushed along with sonic and amy
It makes no sense. She would sacrifice everything for Shadow yet you say she has feelings for Knuckles over that? I think your overselling her credibility and sincere side.
@@Freezientknuckles also has feelings for her but doesn't want to admit and is too shy. As for Shadow, dunno if she has feelings for him, as Ian Flynn told that Sega confirmed they have no romantic feelings towards each other but a lot of respect and loyalty.
@ Knuckles doesn’t have any feelings for Rouge, he’s shy around girls but never confirmed to have any feelings for Rouge or anyone. As for Ian Flynn, he said a lot of bullshit not backed up by sega/sonic team and yes Rouge does have a crush on both Knuckles and Shadow, see the official 06 manual
I feel like ken penders treated the sonic characters like his own oc’s with whom he could so whatever he wishes, rather than established characters not owned by him and beloved by many, telling his own self fulfilling story without care for what the sonic franchise fans and actual sonic characters are like
What? that's literally what it is, i tought it was common knowledge that Ken Penders is a hack, he's two steps away from being literally Chris Chan, the level of delusion that man has over the Archie Sonic comics is nuts, how did he managed to make Sonic even more cringe that it already was is beyond me.
"Art is hit and miss" is putting it lightly, like missing a dartboard and just hitting the bar, this is after Sonic Adventure 2, the style was cemented longterm by now, it's inexcusable...as hilarious as some designs may be.
Yeah no, she wasn't good in the pre-reboot, they made her a heartless girl. On the other hand in the reboot, she was great and I really liked her interaction with Shadow
Thank goodness we never got fully into Penders’ ideas for Rouge! I do agree that Ian’s preboot wasn’t the best. Maybe she was trying to win over Knuckles to get the Master Emerald. I’m totally up for Treasure Team Tango video. There are many highlights.
Dude you absolutely NAILED this! It’s everything I could have asked for about this character, nailing every point. We even agree that she’s kinda great in treasure team tango as an antagonist. The points you make are concise, and you get everything across super well. Great work. Can’t wait for a treasure team tango video!
See, I can appreciate Penders trying to actually do something with the Femme Fatale thing for Rouge, but it's just so poorly handled in execution that it bordered on fetish material 😭
I really hate how her whole character ended up being the “home wrecker” in the love triangle. It should’ve taken place much earlier and been more lighthearted.
Sure people had their problems with pre-reboot Rouge but I enjoyed reading her. She was a literal avatar of chaos. You never knew what she was gonna do and she was either gonna entertain or appall you. One thing was consistent you were never bored when she was on panel. I'll miss her.
Thats a good way to sum up issues 70-159 you never knew what you were gonna get. Was it always good? Probably not most of it was kinda bad but was it ever boring? Hell no this shit is supremely entertaining
1:30 in and I can quickly tell you the short version of why Pre-reboot Rouge was weird: the comic staff rarely ever relied on the games for lore aspects and would rather have focused on their own creations/characters while the game cast was basically side-lined until Ian Flynn came along. I mean the fact Ken Pesters-I-mean-Penders was the kind of dad who said "no games allowed in my house" should kind of speak for itself. Or the fact they just basically said "screw it, just go play the game" for the SA2 aspects even though there is absolutely NO narrative cohesion between the game & the comic. Oh so basically Ian did the smart thing and gave that role to Fiona thus not ruining Rouge's or Sonic's character.
@@SaiyanGamer95 Will say I had found out this tidbit from comments, but also in one video covering the one Archie issue "Sonic Live" where he used photos of his son and his cousin while at his house, and when you look around at it, there wasn't even a game console. He tried to pass a TV remote as a game console, not to mention when he tries to depict how the game works, he just COMPLETELY misses the mark. And it's more the fact of trying to make her come across as like a "I find him hot because he's a bad boy" kind of girl that gets grafted onto Fiona which, had it been kept for Rouge, would have just been honestly a complete misrepresentation of her character. Not to mention not only was it Pesters, but video game tie-in media in the 90's where unless you were making the game, you were more interested in using a big IP as a platform for your own vision. If you wan a good example of how off the rails that can get, I can give you four examples, two in comics and two in movies: Pesters work on the comic itself; the folks who wrote the stories for Fleetway (granted funny enough they seem to have elements more faithfully adapted and counted as game canon, an example being Vector made the leader of the Chaotix when separated from Knuckles); the 90's Mario movie; the first Doom movie.
@@toonman5099 Well, it is one example, so we don't really know much. And there is also the fact that Ken did get annoyed when Sega wanted Archie to adapt whatever game was being released, instead wanting to focus. Although I think the only one that comes to mind would be the Sonic Adventure adaptation. Also, Vector is also the de facto leader of the Chaotix when Knuckles isn't around. Which does sorta connect it back to Knuckles' Chaoix.
@@SaiyanGamer95 I mean I can understand being upset about your current story arc being interrupted by higher ups (that's what happened to a lot of stories for DC during the 2000's), but you're making a comic for and meant to promote a VIDEO GAME franchise. The man outright REFUSED to use any game stuff, I mean look at what happened to Archie Shadow, until Ian was brought on, there was NO AMOUNT of mention Shadow's backstory nor the similarity to the comic original alien race that basically had the same "we've come back after a large amount of time to fulfill our promise (resulting in basically attacking the planet)." Also they didn't even try with SA2, they literally just said "go play the game" but barely bothered to prep anyone for the game, much less give an explanation of "why the heck arent any of the comic characters in the story?" Like they TRY to address it, but like honestly only barely and thats only to explain the existence of Station Square. Not to mention if you just read the comic prior to Ian coming on board, the game aversion is crystal clear. Not really, in the games proper before Heroes and the extra side media considered, there was no clear leader of the Chaotix aside from ASSUMINGLY Knuckles because he was the titular character of the game. Plus originally that game was when all those guys came together and met for the first time, and the origin of the detective stuff (at least originally) was due to Espio doing it as a hobby. Meanwhile Vector originally was just basically a vague Blues Brothers reference. In Fleetway, when Knuckles meets the rest of them, theyre all a team with Vector as the leader right out the gate, with the addition of Fang who turns out to be an eventual traitor which is as subtle as a hammer through a glass door but also the protectors of the Special Zone for some reason. Also, Sega did not monitor these comics or ANYTHING outside of the games themselves, that's how you get stuff like in Archie where your titular bad guy, Robotnik/Eggman, is dead for an entire year of the comic's run and Sally casually holding a 6 shooter like it's nothing.
@@toonman5099 Oh yeah, Sega was not very involved with Archie, nor did Archie keep Sega all that updated with what happened. According to Ian, that's largely why the comic was cancelled in the first place; Archie was mostly left to their own devices and sorta kept Sega out of the loop and didn't ask for permission to do the stuff they did, instead just letting the writers do whatever they wanted.
My first thought watching this was "woah, Bollers being underappreciated?" I was a teenager around that time reading the comics and I remember him being widely regarded as excellent. As for Rouge, I always thought of her character design and intention to be a combination of "Femme Fatale" and "The Anti Knuckles". While Knuckles is simgle minded and focused on a single goal, Rouge is the one with many irons in many fires. Knuckles acts by himself on principle and Rouge strategizes and plans around others to optimize her plans. Knuckles is simple and straightforward, Rouge is complicated and hard to pin down. I wonder if the writers saw something similar to this, but took those elements in different directions.
I think Bollers nowadays goes unappreciated bc Ians run was such an inprovement from what came before that people quickly swept all previous material and went "just read 160 and forward" It didnt help that he also wrote The Slap between Sally and Sonic which marked how people see him.
@@hamstersandwich9917 I can't hate bollers too much even considering the slap the guy gave us Hope Kintober probably the best human character in the comics are at least one of the best.
There's no universal answer to continuity. Sometimes a bad story can be expanded upon to fix it. Other times people agree to forget that something happened, and just move on from something only a bare few liked, and it's for the best. It's complicated. And then with reboots, you have to walk a fine line between change and keeping a core spirit.
there is tho. continuity is important to keep a story/ a universe consistent. When major things are established they SHOULD be kept intact. This conversation of should we should we not keep it ONLY comes up when selfish dicks butt into a continuity to "realize their own vision, rather than make a different continuity adaptation. ikts this selfiosh dick head behavior that eventually leads to "fix it for forget it" Bullshit in the first place. If writer go onto a project that is on going their job is to KEEP IT ON TRACK and not derail it. for example that why STD and SNW in modern star trek suck ass. they constantly trying to subvert expectations with their own vision but their vision is roadkill diarrhea and fuck up continuity constantly. Or the disney sequels to star wars.
@@MikePhantom not quite. This conversation stems from writers making questionable decisions with characters even if it technically doesn't contradict anything.
Wasn't there an issue where Rouge explains why it'd never work between her and Knuckles? something about him being too hard-headed and duty bound, or something like that.
Yeah I remember that too even if my memory is a bit hazy. It was basically Rouge saying she just likes to flirt for fun but wouldn't seriously commit. Ian's way of writing her out of a love-triangle I guess. Works better for her character as well, to not be invested in romance beyond flirting.
I feel like there was a lot of weird "Bad seductive girl character" stereotypes pushed onto her character for a while it felt like the writers REALLY wanted us to hate her. And it even felt a bit sexist with the characterization in some bits but yaknow even though It was a bit rocky, They can never make me hate Rouge.
17:03 Wow. Didn't think I would appear in a random youtube video. Context was that I was referring to the original comics death due to Pender's lawsuit. 20 years of stories went down the drain and left on a cliff hanger. I mentioned too that, as much as I liked some of Pender's characters, I loved the way Ian wrote them better. Julie-Su, Scourge, Sonic's parents, Geoffrey, and so on. Didn't know it was deleted too. XD Crazy.
Go figures it be the fault of Ken Penders that Rouge got some very weird writing pre-reboot, pretty clear he had no interest in properly expanding Rouge as a character and only took surface level information about Rouge to elevate Evil Sonic.
@@MakeVarahHappen I am aware. I didn't feel I don't need to mention in my initial comment on Ian's contribution because it fitted to how Ian Flynn normally writes, that being with the established continuity with game elements in mind. Seeing how Ken Panders did Rouge was enough to tell me why Ian Flynn had a rough start when writing the character.
As much flack as people give Ian Flynn for how certain characters like Rouge and Fiona were written, I'm more lenient on him because the foundation he had to work off of was messy as FUCK. For fuck's sake, most of the writers save for maybe Bollers didn't give a shit about communicating with each other to keep consistency, much less continuity with the games. Given how poorly written a lot of the characters were before Flynn joined the comics (Tails was a childish creep, Sonic was a pathetic womanizer, Sally was whatever the fuck the writers wanted her to be except how she was in SatAM, Fiona was nonexistent, Julie-su only existed to be Knuckles's love interest, Knuckles was Penders's mouthpiece (along with Locke and sometimes Rotor), etc. etc. you get my point), I could at least respect Flynn for trying his damnedest to work with the mess that Penders left behind. And hey, given how Rouge was written by Flynn later on to be much closer to her game counterpart, I'm at least happy that he was able to turn things around eventually. IDW Rouge rocks!
Reading through the comic myself, pre-reboot Rouge is definitely a different character from the one in the games, but in a weird way I kind of like it. It's like one of those things that makes the archieverse have it's own feel instead of being an extension of the canon like IDW. It's kinda like seeing where Rouge could have gone under a different writing staff.
As a kid, I hated Rouge. I remember thinking that she was a femme fatale with no further depth or purpose to her character beyond causing drama. However, as an adult who now knows much more about the Sonic franchise, I've grown to love Rouge as a badass who walks in the grey area of moral alignment; dabbling in both heroism and antagonism while always holding true to what and who she cares about. I've been wondering why my younger self wasn't able to see at least some of these qualities in Rouge - had I laser focused so much on the playful, flirty side of her personality that I missed everything else that makes up who she is? This video gave me the answer. Most of kid me's introduction to the Sonic characters came from Mobius Encyclopedia and where the Archie Sonic comics were at the time...which was still in the midst of the pre-reboot era (2010). All kid me knew of Rouge was that she kissed Knuckles' dad and then flirted with Knuckles while he still had a girlfriend. (EDIT: Thanks, Ken! :/ )
10:58 Maybe the designers Based Rouge off Fugiko ( maybe cause Lupin iii at the time was insanely popular) Not only that . But her Black outfit in Sonic X Looks very similar to Fugiko’s black outfit from Part 1
TMS animated both series. Sega owns TMS. And to say the different personalities Fujiko has been given have been grafted onto Rouge over the years would be an UNDERSTATEMENT.
The fight between Julie Su and Rouge gives me... mixed feelings. I understand why Julie reacts so violently later, but at first we don't know if Rouge even knew Knuckles was in a relationship, so Julie getting physical with her, and then almost calling her a b-word for essentially defending herself physically is a little messed up. I could see a version of this story where Rouge is written to be more like a complex character, where the reason she acts antagonistic is because she had a bad first impression with Julie, which probably would be a better way to go, rather than being treated like this tool to go "see, girls who are more feminine and sexually liberated are evil man-stealers, be more like a nice tomboy next door, women". I wouldn't mind Rouge being willing to flirt with a man in a committed relationship as a facet of her character, if she wasn't written to be so one-dimensionally villainous, and if she actually had feelings for Knuckles. Without that it just feels rather sexist. Like, I kinda love Emma Frost, because she embodies this character with an actual humanity to it. She does seduce Scott while he's in a relationship with Jean, and she's even pretty manipulative about it... but her feelings for him are actually genuine, and she is a caring, supportive partner, even if she might be a bad influence.
I am glad that Rouge got better. I do like her government agent side being shown more in Bollers run. Have you ever thought of doing a video on Karl Bollers so he can get more recognition, his story "Return to Angel Island" was one of my favourites with fantastic art by Jon Gray
Great video! I am glad that I can finally understand why she was running around with Scourge. Also random tangent, but that line at 22:23 about Rouge only doing things for her crush undercutting her character is why I am not the most fond of Amy’s characterization in a lot of the stuff she is in IMO.
It wasn't much, but I did like her in the Megaman crossover. There was a scene where she finds Dr Light in captivity on the Wily Egg and, perhaps strangely at first, says she won't be freeing him at the moment. Light would just be a hinderance to be tagging along at this stage. Light actually agrees. But she does ask for his technical expertise for where exactly the Wily Egg is weakest on a schematic, and targets those areas. It's a good interaction, one where Rouge demonstrates being pragmatic and going after the more pressing concern, even if it may come across as cold, but fortunately Light is intelligent and patient enough to understand. Everyone else in this comic seems so "go-go-go" and impulsive that these two almost seemed to be the only grown ups lol.
Rouge was able to resurrect as a character only in the Sonic Universe. It was there that the best interaction of dark, Shadow, knuckles and rouge was shown. Omega and Blaze are still the best couple
Im a long time Sonic Archie fan and this channel got me back into the series, I just think it’s really funny how a lot of these analysis videos are like “This event happens right after the event where sonic blew up, don’t worry about that though, that happened like two comics ago” because everytime it gets a little more wild and I’m just nodding along because even if I didn’t read that specific issue I can totally believe it happened within the universe lmfao
Wasn't Archie and Sega putting a lot of pressure on Ian and the other writers to bring the comics more into line with the games and pretty quickly at that. Like, it's why Charmy was given brain damage so that he would act like a child and not a teenager. This is a decision that Ian would regret a lot in the future.
Probably less effort and less jarring for audiences to work off the most recent iteration of a character rather than the one from over 50 issues ago (which is roughly a 4 year timespan)
People have said the 2 characters Flynn didn't get a handle on in pre-reboot were Rouge and Charmy. I agree. I don't hate pre-boot Rouge, but she is weird. She's not awful, she serves the plot well, she's just inconsistent and weird.
Being a team player and staying close to continuity has to be the strangest criticism towards Ian Flynn's writing style I ever heard somebody describe. It really highlights just how opposite Flynn and Penders are as creators.
I mean, i think the video highlighted why this adherence to continuity can be a problem sometimes. As we've seen, sticking to continuity made Rouge come off like a homewrecker in Pre reboot where it wouldve appreciated by all if that wasnt such a focal point of her character.
Most redeemable part of Pre reboot Rouge was her relationship with Team Dark, but even then I still think she’s a charming character, and I find it funny that of the two Shadow was the more reasonable one when it’s usually the other way around, makes sense though since he’s a friendlier character there so Rouge had to be the antagonist force
0:22 I’m telling you guys . She’s just a furry Fugiko Mine ( From Lupin the third ) “I’m the one.. everybody’s waiting fooor ( waiting foor ) Scream for me … A romantic modern herooo ( herooo) They need a hero Someone to look up too”
10:59 SAYONARA SIMP Also holy crap, I barely ever interacted with the comics outside of some of the EARLY early stuff. I barely have any idea who half of these characters are lmao
I think another reason behind her eventual turn had to do with the fact that Flynn was setting up Fiona to become Scourge's main travelling companion. So, booting out the bat and portraying her intentions in a good light, whilst the fox had the short-end of the stick after the interrogations ended was intentional. It's also why they chose to focus on her criminal past prior to become a Freedom Fighter. Whilst it was mainly used as evidence against Rouge, it was also to set up her eventual return to crime and villainous retooling. As much as it hurt her character in the long-run. I am grateful that Flynn finally did something with Fiona, as much as her writing sucked.
I was one kf the kids that had the Archie #98 comic before I played the game. It did spoil the Rouge government contract surprise, but getting the backstory of Sonic's original apprehension makes it worth it.
I have been reading through Archie recently starting at issue 160, and I read 186 not long after Dark Beginnings came out and her speech to knuckles felt so in character for the rouge in those shorts that, even though I had seen her be evil only a few issues prior, it still gave me whiplash
Sega deciding to create a romantic interest for Knuckles after Ken Penders had already built the weirdest family tree of all time to ensure that Knuckles was with Julie: culminating with him writing a bunch of weird biological stuff so that knuckles literally had to be with her due to his nature as a echidna, was like sega threatening to nuclear bomb his lore. So naturally he was going to prevent the nuke by writing out the love triangle. If Ken had worked on the book for longer Rouge woudve probably stopped crushing on Knuckles immediately so she can get with evil sonic. So Ian taking over may have made better stories, but it ironically dragged the whole love triangle out longer and made it worse because without Kens bigger story plan Rouge can only really stick to her in game crush
Rouge being on HER own side was Best Rouge. Her side being what is best for her by keeping good contacts with Sonic and co's team so she can utilize them later.
fascinating! thanks for going over these! i've read a fair chunk of archie but almost entirely post-reboot because i'm scared of the romance drama plotlines LOL
I completely agree with all the words in this video... Rouge is a very strange and unpleasant character who doesn't want to worry. Her whole personality is focused on three things - working as an agent, crimes and knuckles. Rouge appeared in the game universe thanks to Shadow. Whatever you say, it's a fact. Her best moments are associated with Shadow and Knuckles - salvation in sa2, the moment of sonic battle and Sonic 06. She has no reason in the comics to love knuckles simply because we haven't been shown why she loves him. She wants to get knuckles just to spite his current girlfriend. She is not attached to Shadow because they did not have memorable moments. It's not rouge, it's just a cheap copy or a FAKER.
If someone writing a story for an existing series doesn't like the original stories and only likes their own version of the characters, do they really even like the series, or are they just incapable of creating your own characters? I don't think anyone should be writing stories for a series if they can't keep to the original script and need to change and retcon things just to fit their own narrative.
I never got that into the franchise, but from what exposure I have had to the character, I always thought she was basically Fujiko Mine from Lupin the 3rd 😆
Rouge was never on the top of my tier list, even if I'm just thinking about the games. So all versions of her characterization was more entertaining than what she was in the games at the time. The struggle was not making her a direct copy of Selina kyle.
Rouge was low key a lot of kids first moment of 'what is this strange feeling lmfao' ... Especially in sa2. She had giggle physics before it was even popular. 😅
Oh wow I love this. A rare character analysis on one of the most interesting characters introduced to the sonic world. That is why she was never forgotten and is consistent appearances on the series esp in Archie… you cannot ignore it. She has that liberated female character that I really appreciate?? That’s just ME! She symbolized that and that’s why I enjoyed her next to blaze. They compliment how a woman can be. Of course Amy to me is unapologetically girl and fan girly which I also appreciated back in the day. I never thought it ended fixing because that’s how some young girls are like. (Also rouge really said; ima eff your dad knuckles for ending up with another girl in this alternate storyline that is the Archie comics. That is the biggest flex. I remember finding that so wild as a kid. Penders always had crazy stories.) They really should of left the crush out of it , she’s shown her logical friend side with shadow. Her crush on knuckles makes no sense and she is written in a ridiculous sexist way. I mean if they kept the crush , they could of explored her lack of ability to connect with people genuinely if rouge does have a complex ‘eff girl ‘ issues. That has problems with interpersonal relationships and men. Explain that. Give reason why she’s a little shit like that. Maybe followed by real heart break for character growth but hey- that is just me when it comes to writing that type of character.
6:01...I guess the perception of art is subjective...I find that style awful, for me it looks as the work of an untalented child's doing anime fanart, but thats me. 12:20...I guess the art didn't got better. Rouge is my favorite female character from the Sonic characters I think it has a couple of things, literally a COUPLE of things, that make the public misinterpret her based solely on design, she is flirty, but that is not all she is, she is funny, intelligent, gray in her decisions...and yes, I totally love her dynamic with Knuckles and ship them, but one thing I like is that it's not you know... it's not her everything in life, unlike in the Archie comics, but to be fair I think most of the female characters in the Archie comics are like that, obsessed with the romantic object motivating their decisions and relevant changes, if only more seattle in some cases than in others. I also really like her dynamic with Shadow, period, which I feel like she's more of an older sister.
There is no Easter bunny,there is no tooth fairy, *and there is no second polygon*
What it have to do with the video?
@@JAYIQ-ip6bd everything. Rouge and her one polygon.
@@JAYIQ-ip6bdit's a snapcube reference
@@JAYIQ-ip6bdgo watch the sonic adventure 2 fandub, then you'll understand
@@autumnyuki3744 but her head doesn't look like a polygon?
To me, Rouge's words "more precious than jewels" probably mean that she has become much more appreciative of life. After his rescue (three times) Rouge began to look at life differently.
That's an interpretation I had too first hearing it ^^
I think it's a mix but mostly her fun side. The fun is more important.
Rouge after saying this: *clutches body pillow of Kazuma Kuwabara*
@@darkdemigodYOU'RE A MESHI
Nah this shit was hard as hell
For me Rouge's defining moment is when she pops out of nowhere with intel on Shadow / the Biolizard. You realize so abruptly that this silly, flirty, fun loving treasure hunter is ALSO a terrifyingly competent secret agent and that even you as the player have fallen for the trick. But it's also not entirely just a mask because she IS silly and flirty and fun loving, she's just really good at balancing those two halves of herself to the point where you're never really sure which half you're going to get in any given interaction.
Also when she hangs upside down it's super cute. So there's that.
Rouge is one of my favorite characters in the franchise, because I absolutely love her personality in the games, her loyalty to her friends and team, the fact that she is the reason Team Dark even exists, and that she's highly skilled in her job that you can count on her to have some very fun espionage themed gameplay whenever she's involved.
Imagine my confusion when I opened up a comic back in the day and she was trying to lock lips with Knuckles's dad. O_o
She literally became a yandere for knuckles. At the same time, she looks very bad in this image. She just wants knuckles just because she wants to piss off knuckles' girlfriend
I never knew that Knuckles had a girlfriend in the comics.
LOL
I like her for her character nothing else-
Okay we all know the true reason
I read a fanfic once where the Archie world got rebooted into the IDW world and after the characters from both worlds touched Nicole, they essentially had their Archie selves in their minds.
They had a machine that let both sides talk about how they feel and which of them they think should be able to stay permanently.
IDW Rouge considered Archie Rouge so bad that she fucking deleted her with the machine.
Do tell, that sounds interesting!
I don't suppose you have a link to this fanfic.
link?
i agree with the other guys, weres the link dawg
Which one?
I’m not a big fan of how much home wrecker Rouge was in Pre Reboot Archie. Idw and Post Reboot Archie both understand and do a good job balancing Rouge’s Sneaky side with her genuine care for others
I think Homewrecker Rouge is funny only because I don't like Julie-Su. Rouge herself is so much better in postboot and IDW
I loved Homewrecker Rouge.
Honestly it’s for the best if she stayed a homewrecker. If Rouge succeeded Laura Su could have been prevented 😔
@Keisezrgs If preboot kept going despite the Penders lawsuit I think Rouge would have been successful Julie-su got suck away along with the rest of the echidnas that weren't Knuckles. Given some time Rouge would win Knuckles would move on eventually.
I loved that she was a home wrecker lmao
Rouge's constant usage as a middle point between Knuckles and Shadow's butting heads, meanwhile repeated and overtly used, it's an interesting dynamic at the end of the day as she has to put in a balance not only her values but also her relationship with the guy she likes and her closest friend.
And her love of jewels, so her own interests as well
Fun fact: She also has a crush on Shadow and while its not them fighting over her (neither of the guys likes her the same way, yes Knuckles does not return her feelings) and its not about which she likes better, but I like these 3 dynamic together better than Shadow being pushed along with sonic and amy
It makes no sense. She would sacrifice everything for Shadow yet you say she has feelings for Knuckles over that? I think your overselling her credibility and sincere side.
@@Freezientknuckles also has feelings for her but doesn't want to admit and is too shy. As for Shadow, dunno if she has feelings for him, as Ian Flynn told that Sega confirmed they have no romantic feelings towards each other but a lot of respect and loyalty.
@ Knuckles doesn’t have any feelings for Rouge, he’s shy around girls but never confirmed to have any feelings for Rouge or anyone. As for Ian Flynn, he said a lot of bullshit not backed up by sega/sonic team and yes Rouge does have a crush on both Knuckles and Shadow, see the official 06 manual
I feel like ken penders treated the sonic characters like his own oc’s with whom he could so whatever he wishes, rather than established characters not owned by him and beloved by many, telling his own self fulfilling story without care for what the sonic franchise fans and actual sonic characters are like
That’s unfortunately what we’re noticing in recent years.
@@pogpurin Basically what the creators of TTG did to a lot of DC characters not just the Teen Titans
What? that's literally what it is, i tought it was common knowledge that Ken Penders is a hack, he's two steps away from being literally Chris Chan, the level of delusion that man has over the Archie Sonic comics is nuts, how did he managed to make Sonic even more cringe that it already was is beyond me.
"Art is hit and miss" is putting it lightly, like missing a dartboard and just hitting the bar, this is after Sonic Adventure 2, the style was cemented longterm by now, it's inexcusable...as hilarious as some designs may be.
What's funny is that arc has fantastic art, but that one issue looks awful.
17:03 okay Ken, say you're bitter without saying you're bitter
Now to be fair Ian handled Scourge and Enerjak far *far* better then Ken ever did so I guess I can say im glad Ken made them????
Yeah no, she wasn't good in the pre-reboot, they made her a heartless girl.
On the other hand in the reboot, she was great and I really liked her interaction with Shadow
@@Pan-cackes problem is that she didn’t inherit the memories of pre reboot self, so she couldn’t have the moment of true introspection.
True
Idk. I liked her in adventure 2 battle. That's all I know
@@ssjsyriene6350her reboot self isnt that far off
She was good pre reboot
Thank goodness we never got fully into Penders’ ideas for Rouge! I do agree that Ian’s preboot wasn’t the best. Maybe she was trying to win over Knuckles to get the Master Emerald.
I’m totally up for Treasure Team Tango video. There are many highlights.
@@NightFuryLover31 now she goes after the master emerald for a different pair of jewels.
Treasure Team Tango is a top 10 sonic story for me, its a classic!
Dude you absolutely NAILED this! It’s everything I could have asked for about this character, nailing every point. We even agree that she’s kinda great in treasure team tango as an antagonist. The points you make are concise, and you get everything across super well. Great work. Can’t wait for a treasure team tango video!
IanWaffles the goat
Quests
Rouge: (sleeps)
Jewels
Rouge: (Awakes)
Knuckles
Rouge: (Ascends)
Shadow
Rouge:(FUCKIN ALL NIGHT!!!!!)
See, I can appreciate Penders trying to actually do something with the Femme Fatale thing for Rouge, but it's just so poorly handled in execution that it bordered on fetish material 😭
The better option for working Rouge into Knuckles and Julie-Su’s relationship in my mind would be to have her jokily flirt with both of them
That would actually be pretty funny. Julie ready to beat on Rouge when the bat just goes "Hey girl, I like them dreads"
@@johnsayles8032 I could see Julie going full blue screen, not knowing how to respond while Rouge giggles and flies away.
For that to happen, somebody’s gonna have to tell Ken Penders about gay people, and that everything women do _isn’t_ actually for male attention
@@dead_byte but that might mess up all the hard work he's been doing on the Lara-Su Chronicles 😂
that would be very funny actually. love it
I really hate how her whole character ended up being the “home wrecker” in the love triangle. It should’ve taken place much earlier and been more lighthearted.
Sure people had their problems with pre-reboot Rouge but I enjoyed reading her. She was a literal avatar of chaos. You never knew what she was gonna do and she was either gonna entertain or appall you. One thing was consistent you were never bored when she was on panel. I'll miss her.
Thats a good way to sum up issues 70-159 you never knew what you were gonna get. Was it always good? Probably not most of it was kinda bad but was it ever boring? Hell no this shit is supremely entertaining
1:30 in and I can quickly tell you the short version of why Pre-reboot Rouge was weird: the comic staff rarely ever relied on the games for lore aspects and would rather have focused on their own creations/characters while the game cast was basically side-lined until Ian Flynn came along.
I mean the fact Ken Pesters-I-mean-Penders was the kind of dad who said "no games allowed in my house" should kind of speak for itself.
Or the fact they just basically said "screw it, just go play the game" for the SA2 aspects even though there is absolutely NO narrative cohesion between the game & the comic.
Oh so basically Ian did the smart thing and gave that role to Fiona thus not ruining Rouge's or Sonic's character.
I never heard of Penders being "against video games" in his house. I also don't see what was wrong with what he had planned for Rouge.
@@SaiyanGamer95 Will say I had found out this tidbit from comments, but also in one video covering the one Archie issue "Sonic Live" where he used photos of his son and his cousin while at his house, and when you look around at it, there wasn't even a game console. He tried to pass a TV remote as a game console, not to mention when he tries to depict how the game works, he just COMPLETELY misses the mark.
And it's more the fact of trying to make her come across as like a "I find him hot because he's a bad boy" kind of girl that gets grafted onto Fiona which, had it been kept for Rouge, would have just been honestly a complete misrepresentation of her character.
Not to mention not only was it Pesters, but video game tie-in media in the 90's where unless you were making the game, you were more interested in using a big IP as a platform for your own vision. If you wan a good example of how off the rails that can get, I can give you four examples, two in comics and two in movies: Pesters work on the comic itself; the folks who wrote the stories for Fleetway (granted funny enough they seem to have elements more faithfully adapted and counted as game canon, an example being Vector made the leader of the Chaotix when separated from Knuckles); the 90's Mario movie; the first Doom movie.
@@toonman5099 Well, it is one example, so we don't really know much. And there is also the fact that Ken did get annoyed when Sega wanted Archie to adapt whatever game was being released, instead wanting to focus. Although I think the only one that comes to mind would be the Sonic Adventure adaptation.
Also, Vector is also the de facto leader of the Chaotix when Knuckles isn't around. Which does sorta connect it back to Knuckles' Chaoix.
@@SaiyanGamer95 I mean I can understand being upset about your current story arc being interrupted by higher ups (that's what happened to a lot of stories for DC during the 2000's), but you're making a comic for and meant to promote a VIDEO GAME franchise. The man outright REFUSED to use any game stuff, I mean look at what happened to Archie Shadow, until Ian was brought on, there was NO AMOUNT of mention Shadow's backstory nor the similarity to the comic original alien race that basically had the same "we've come back after a large amount of time to fulfill our promise (resulting in basically attacking the planet)." Also they didn't even try with SA2, they literally just said "go play the game" but barely bothered to prep anyone for the game, much less give an explanation of "why the heck arent any of the comic characters in the story?" Like they TRY to address it, but like honestly only barely and thats only to explain the existence of Station Square. Not to mention if you just read the comic prior to Ian coming on board, the game aversion is crystal clear.
Not really, in the games proper before Heroes and the extra side media considered, there was no clear leader of the Chaotix aside from ASSUMINGLY Knuckles because he was the titular character of the game. Plus originally that game was when all those guys came together and met for the first time, and the origin of the detective stuff (at least originally) was due to Espio doing it as a hobby. Meanwhile Vector originally was just basically a vague Blues Brothers reference. In Fleetway, when Knuckles meets the rest of them, theyre all a team with Vector as the leader right out the gate, with the addition of Fang who turns out to be an eventual traitor which is as subtle as a hammer through a glass door but also the protectors of the Special Zone for some reason.
Also, Sega did not monitor these comics or ANYTHING outside of the games themselves, that's how you get stuff like in Archie where your titular bad guy, Robotnik/Eggman, is dead for an entire year of the comic's run and Sally casually holding a 6 shooter like it's nothing.
@@toonman5099 Oh yeah, Sega was not very involved with Archie, nor did Archie keep Sega all that updated with what happened. According to Ian, that's largely why the comic was cancelled in the first place; Archie was mostly left to their own devices and sorta kept Sega out of the loop and didn't ask for permission to do the stuff they did, instead just letting the writers do whatever they wanted.
7:03 Bro this artwork of Rouge caught me off guard.
the edibles kicked in
It was werid,crazy, batshit insane and I love how chaotic it was...
It was a product of its time...
*Batshit?* lol
She cares about herself yes, but WHEN her friends are in trouble she steps innnn
I can't stop noticing how they gave her literally any eyecolor but teal
My first thought watching this was "woah, Bollers being underappreciated?" I was a teenager around that time reading the comics and I remember him being widely regarded as excellent.
As for Rouge, I always thought of her character design and intention to be a combination of "Femme Fatale" and "The Anti Knuckles". While Knuckles is simgle minded and focused on a single goal, Rouge is the one with many irons in many fires. Knuckles acts by himself on principle and Rouge strategizes and plans around others to optimize her plans. Knuckles is simple and straightforward, Rouge is complicated and hard to pin down. I wonder if the writers saw something similar to this, but took those elements in different directions.
It's definitely a missed opportunity (no offense to Ian flynn, BTW)
I think Bollers nowadays goes unappreciated bc Ians run was such an inprovement from what came before that people quickly swept all previous material and went "just read 160 and forward"
It didnt help that he also wrote The Slap between Sally and Sonic which marked how people see him.
@@hamstersandwich9917 I can't hate bollers too much even considering the slap the guy gave us Hope Kintober probably the best human character in the comics are at least one of the best.
@@MILDMONSTER1234 yeah I don't dislike bollers myself I like alot of his work especially Return to Angel Island
Rouge my beloved shortstack
Yeah its easy to forget that Rouge is only like a meter tall or 3'5, all Sonic characters that arent human are short as hell
@@carso1500 They are the perfect size for hugs
@carso1500 Those are perfect punting size. Can you IMAGINE tossing the characters? It would be so fun.
@@XC11301991 do you want to be sent to the hospital by a bipedal rodent thats half your size
@@deringjosuegarcia1531cringe
20:17 okay but to give credit, That's is a cold ass Rouge line goddamn. Ate her UP even if it's villainizing the hell out of her
There's no universal answer to continuity. Sometimes a bad story can be expanded upon to fix it. Other times people agree to forget that something happened, and just move on from something only a bare few liked, and it's for the best.
It's complicated. And then with reboots, you have to walk a fine line between change and keeping a core spirit.
there is tho. continuity is important to keep a story/ a universe consistent. When major things are established they SHOULD be kept intact. This conversation of should we should we not keep it ONLY comes up when selfish dicks butt into a continuity to "realize their own vision, rather than make a different continuity adaptation. ikts this selfiosh dick head behavior that eventually leads to "fix it for forget it" Bullshit in the first place. If writer go onto a project that is on going their job is to KEEP IT ON TRACK and not derail it.
for example that why STD and SNW in modern star trek suck ass. they constantly trying to subvert expectations with their own vision but their vision is roadkill diarrhea and fuck up continuity constantly.
Or the disney sequels to star wars.
@@MikePhantom not quite. This conversation stems from writers making questionable decisions with characters even if it technically doesn't contradict anything.
1:08 my name's Rouge the Bat and I like ....JEWELS!
All the world's water is MINE to keep.
All the world's sins are MINE to bare.
I like... bottles of water :)
All the- keep
all...
...
...
...
mmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Wasn't there an issue where Rouge explains why it'd never work between her and Knuckles? something about him being too hard-headed and duty bound, or something like that.
No, she was just an evil bitch.
Yeah I remember that too even if my memory is a bit hazy.
It was basically Rouge saying she just likes to flirt for fun but wouldn't seriously commit.
Ian's way of writing her out of a love-triangle I guess. Works better for her character as well, to not be invested in romance beyond flirting.
I feel like there was a lot of weird "Bad seductive girl character" stereotypes pushed onto her character for a while it felt like the writers REALLY wanted us to hate her. And it even felt a bit sexist with the characterization in some bits but yaknow even though It was a bit rocky, They can never make me hate Rouge.
Me neither, Rouge is the girl boss.
@@criticalbuddy524 Me neither, Rouge is thrice the girl boss Julie-Su ever was! 😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤
I think its just you lol
@@akiradkcn the 139 likes says otherwise
Cartoon bat is sexist
17:03 Wow. Didn't think I would appear in a random youtube video. Context was that I was referring to the original comics death due to Pender's lawsuit. 20 years of stories went down the drain and left on a cliff hanger. I mentioned too that, as much as I liked some of Pender's characters, I loved the way Ian wrote them better. Julie-Su, Scourge, Sonic's parents, Geoffrey, and so on. Didn't know it was deleted too. XD Crazy.
Madness
3:45 The character proportions look so bad in this panel like why are their heads so big compared to their bodies? 😂
Mr. Mackey lookin ahh
Go figures it be the fault of Ken Penders that Rouge got some very weird writing pre-reboot, pretty clear he had no interest in properly expanding Rouge as a character and only took surface level information about Rouge to elevate Evil Sonic.
I think you can't just ignore Ian's role in this.
@@MakeVarahHappen I am aware. I didn't feel I don't need to mention in my initial comment on Ian's contribution because it fitted to how Ian Flynn normally writes, that being with the established continuity with game elements in mind. Seeing how Ken Panders did Rouge was enough to tell me why Ian Flynn had a rough start when writing the character.
As much flack as people give Ian Flynn for how certain characters like Rouge and Fiona were written, I'm more lenient on him because the foundation he had to work off of was messy as FUCK. For fuck's sake, most of the writers save for maybe Bollers didn't give a shit about communicating with each other to keep consistency, much less continuity with the games. Given how poorly written a lot of the characters were before Flynn joined the comics (Tails was a childish creep, Sonic was a pathetic womanizer, Sally was whatever the fuck the writers wanted her to be except how she was in SatAM, Fiona was nonexistent, Julie-su only existed to be Knuckles's love interest, Knuckles was Penders's mouthpiece (along with Locke and sometimes Rotor), etc. etc. you get my point), I could at least respect Flynn for trying his damnedest to work with the mess that Penders left behind. And hey, given how Rouge was written by Flynn later on to be much closer to her game counterpart, I'm at least happy that he was able to turn things around eventually. IDW Rouge rocks!
To be fair, "sexy bat" was going to be weird no matter how they spun it.
They still handeled it really well. I’ve never seen the bar character depicted as smart and attractive before. Usually they are just dumb or nerds.
*cough* succubus
3:45 - What happened to their bodies?! That art is terrifying!
I don't entirely hate her being more on the evil-side of morally gray, I feel like they did a lot of this better with Fiona, though
Yeah I feel the same way, I thought it was just me who noticed how similar they were.
Reading through the comic myself, pre-reboot Rouge is definitely a different character from the one in the games, but in a weird way I kind of like it. It's like one of those things that makes the archieverse have it's own feel instead of being an extension of the canon like IDW. It's kinda like seeing where Rouge could have gone under a different writing staff.
Sometimes, I wonder how Fleetway would do the modern games and characters 🤔
@@Mysticgamer There is a fancomic continuation of fleetway that has characters like Shadow pop up that kinda does that
I see like the average comic book alternate universe like marvel with Ultimate marvel
As a kid, I hated Rouge. I remember thinking that she was a femme fatale with no further depth or purpose to her character beyond causing drama. However, as an adult who now knows much more about the Sonic franchise, I've grown to love Rouge as a badass who walks in the grey area of moral alignment; dabbling in both heroism and antagonism while always holding true to what and who she cares about.
I've been wondering why my younger self wasn't able to see at least some of these qualities in Rouge - had I laser focused so much on the playful, flirty side of her personality that I missed everything else that makes up who she is?
This video gave me the answer.
Most of kid me's introduction to the Sonic characters came from Mobius Encyclopedia and where the Archie Sonic comics were at the time...which was still in the midst of the pre-reboot era (2010). All kid me knew of Rouge was that she kissed Knuckles' dad and then flirted with Knuckles while he still had a girlfriend. (EDIT: Thanks, Ken! :/ )
10:58 Maybe the designers Based Rouge off Fugiko ( maybe cause Lupin iii at the time was insanely popular) Not only that . But her Black outfit in Sonic X Looks very similar to Fugiko’s black outfit from Part 1
Nitpick, but Fujiko.
TMS animated both series. Sega owns TMS. And to say the different personalities Fujiko has been given have been grafted onto Rouge over the years would be an UNDERSTATEMENT.
@@tuvyamaeir4684
I know right
The fight between Julie Su and Rouge gives me... mixed feelings. I understand why Julie reacts so violently later, but at first we don't know if Rouge even knew Knuckles was in a relationship, so Julie getting physical with her, and then almost calling her a b-word for essentially defending herself physically is a little messed up. I could see a version of this story where Rouge is written to be more like a complex character, where the reason she acts antagonistic is because she had a bad first impression with Julie, which probably would be a better way to go, rather than being treated like this tool to go "see, girls who are more feminine and sexually liberated are evil man-stealers, be more like a nice tomboy next door, women".
I wouldn't mind Rouge being willing to flirt with a man in a committed relationship as a facet of her character, if she wasn't written to be so one-dimensionally villainous, and if she actually had feelings for Knuckles. Without that it just feels rather sexist.
Like, I kinda love Emma Frost, because she embodies this character with an actual humanity to it. She does seduce Scott while he's in a relationship with Jean, and she's even pretty manipulative about it... but her feelings for him are actually genuine, and she is a caring, supportive partner, even if she might be a bad influence.
Her name is Rouge.
An interesting thought. However, all we got is that rouge is just an evil bitch.
So, like Julie Su, you just want her to be a static 1d love interest defined only by what Knuckles is doing next. And that's not sexist.
Pre Reboot Rouge in the Archie canon is beyond strange. She's basically an antagonist and has no relationship to anyone
I am glad that Rouge got better. I do like her government agent side being shown more in Bollers run. Have you ever thought of doing a video on Karl Bollers so he can get more recognition, his story "Return to Angel Island" was one of my favourites with fantastic art by Jon Gray
Agreed, there should be a video about Karl Bollers after watching this and his original plans for the comic, I would like to know more about him.
Great video! I am glad that I can finally understand why she was running around with Scourge.
Also random tangent, but that line at 22:23 about Rouge only doing things for her crush undercutting her character is why I am not the most fond of Amy’s characterization in a lot of the stuff she is in IMO.
I'll never get over just how bad preboot Archie drew Sonic characters. It's morbidly impressive.
It wasn't much, but I did like her in the Megaman crossover. There was a scene where she finds Dr Light in captivity on the Wily Egg and, perhaps strangely at first, says she won't be freeing him at the moment. Light would just be a hinderance to be tagging along at this stage. Light actually agrees. But she does ask for his technical expertise for where exactly the Wily Egg is weakest on a schematic, and targets those areas. It's a good interaction, one where Rouge demonstrates being pragmatic and going after the more pressing concern, even if it may come across as cold, but fortunately Light is intelligent and patient enough to understand. Everyone else in this comic seems so "go-go-go" and impulsive that these two almost seemed to be the only grown ups lol.
Rouge was able to resurrect as a character only in the Sonic Universe. It was there that the best interaction of dark, Shadow, knuckles and rouge was shown. Omega and Blaze are still the best couple
Im a long time Sonic Archie fan and this channel got me back into the series, I just think it’s really funny how a lot of these analysis videos are like “This event happens right after the event where sonic blew up, don’t worry about that though, that happened like two comics ago” because everytime it gets a little more wild and I’m just nodding along because even if I didn’t read that specific issue I can totally believe it happened within the universe lmfao
The thing is Ian could've followed up on Karl's stuff but he choose to focus on Ken's stuff. It's not just continuity but what continuity.
its possible he weirdly forgot about that earlier depiction in favour of the relatively more recent stuff
Wasn't Archie and Sega putting a lot of pressure on Ian and the other writers to bring the comics more into line with the games and pretty quickly at that.
Like, it's why Charmy was given brain damage so that he would act like a child and not a teenager. This is a decision that Ian would regret a lot in the future.
Probably less effort and less jarring for audiences to work off the most recent iteration of a character rather than the one from over 50 issues ago (which is roughly a 4 year timespan)
@@4wheal Aside from that, Flynn still got to do basically whatever he wanted.
It’s a shame Ken penders was such a bad writer because the cover art was awesome looking
human proportions Rouge scares me
People have said the 2 characters Flynn didn't get a handle on in pre-reboot were Rouge and Charmy. I agree. I don't hate pre-boot Rouge, but she is weird. She's not awful, she serves the plot well, she's just inconsistent and weird.
I can't wait to see who voices Rouge in the next Sonic film.
Being a team player and staying close to continuity has to be the strangest criticism towards Ian Flynn's writing style I ever heard somebody describe. It really highlights just how opposite Flynn and Penders are as creators.
I mean, i think the video highlighted why this adherence to continuity can be a problem sometimes. As we've seen, sticking to continuity made Rouge come off like a homewrecker in Pre reboot where it wouldve appreciated by all if that wasnt such a focal point of her character.
Most redeemable part of Pre reboot Rouge was her relationship with Team Dark, but even then I still think she’s a charming character, and I find it funny that of the two Shadow was the more reasonable one when it’s usually the other way around, makes sense though since he’s a friendlier character there so Rouge had to be the antagonist force
11:00 idk why but I find “sayonara simp! 😼” to be really funny
in fairness, weren’t we all a little weirdly written before the reboot, in our own ways?
We?
*Looks around*
You and I had a reboot also?
I thought you knew! I’m sorry you had to find out like this.
0:22 I’m telling you guys . She’s just a furry Fugiko Mine ( From Lupin the third )
“I’m the one..
everybody’s waiting fooor ( waiting foor )
Scream for me …
A romantic modern herooo
( herooo)
They need a hero
Someone to look up too”
10:59 SAYONARA SIMP
Also holy crap, I barely ever interacted with the comics outside of some of the EARLY early stuff. I barely have any idea who half of these characters are lmao
She was great in Sonic X as well as SA2: Battle.
00:11 whoa what's that animation from?
Shadow generations dark beginnings
Sonic 06
@@jacobrayburngristlycupid749bro I don’t think that’s sonic 06😭🙏
the part you linked to actually is sonic 06. the part afterwards is something else idk
@theMyRadiowasTaken oh it is sonic 06 mb I thought it wasent cause it came for like a split second
Some of those stories Karl Bollers had planned seemed interesting, damn, what could of been.😢
I think another reason behind her eventual turn had to do with the fact that Flynn was setting up Fiona to become Scourge's main travelling companion. So, booting out the bat and portraying her intentions in a good light, whilst the fox had the short-end of the stick after the interrogations ended was intentional. It's also why they chose to focus on her criminal past prior to become a Freedom Fighter. Whilst it was mainly used as evidence against Rouge, it was also to set up her eventual return to crime and villainous retooling.
As much as it hurt her character in the long-run. I am grateful that Flynn finally did something with Fiona, as much as her writing sucked.
Penders saw as much depth in the characters he wrote as he had within himself: Not very much.
I was one kf the kids that had the Archie #98 comic before I played the game. It did spoil the Rouge government contract surprise, but getting the backstory of Sonic's original apprehension makes it worth it.
2:27 Or driving a car… 💥💀
I have been reading through Archie recently starting at issue 160, and I read 186 not long after Dark Beginnings came out and her speech to knuckles felt so in character for the rouge in those shorts that, even though I had seen her be evil only a few issues prior, it still gave me whiplash
Sega deciding to create a romantic interest for Knuckles after Ken Penders had already built the weirdest family tree of all time to ensure that Knuckles was with Julie: culminating with him writing a bunch of weird biological stuff so that knuckles literally had to be with her due to his nature as a echidna, was like sega threatening to nuclear bomb his lore. So naturally he was going to prevent the nuke by writing out the love triangle. If Ken had worked on the book for longer Rouge woudve probably stopped crushing on Knuckles immediately so she can get with evil sonic. So Ian taking over may have made better stories, but it ironically dragged the whole love triangle out longer and made it worse because without Kens bigger story plan Rouge can only really stick to her in game crush
Would it be funny if sonic team created Rouge just to spite ken? 🤭
SA2 rouge is literally just a carbon copy of Mine Fujiko. Id bet money the name literally shows up somewhere in her notes with her design drafts.
Oh my god A FELLOW LUPIN FAN!!!!
What Media is this 0:13 scene from?
Dark Beginnings, the prologue to Shadow Generations
@@godzillahunter721I thought it looked like Sonic 06?
@@mitwhitgaming7722 It’s not
@@godzillahunter721 I watched ReRez's Just Bad Games for '06. It's totally '06.
Oh, no, I see, the next clip. 😅
2:46 I think she ment by that is that she is thinking about shadow's death more than jewels
Rouge being on HER own side was Best Rouge. Her side being what is best for her by keeping good contacts with Sonic and co's team so she can utilize them later.
20:31 She was gonna say bat...
Who here would love a Bayonetta style Rouge game?
fascinating! thanks for going over these! i've read a fair chunk of archie but almost entirely post-reboot because i'm scared of the romance drama plotlines LOL
I completely agree with all the words in this video... Rouge is a very strange and unpleasant character who doesn't want to worry. Her whole personality is focused on three things - working as an agent, crimes and knuckles. Rouge appeared in the game universe thanks to Shadow. Whatever you say, it's a fact. Her best moments are associated with Shadow and Knuckles - salvation in sa2, the moment of sonic battle and Sonic 06. She has no reason in the comics to love knuckles simply because we haven't been shown why she loves him. She wants to get knuckles just to spite his current girlfriend. She is not attached to Shadow because they did not have memorable moments. It's not rouge, it's just a cheap copy or a FAKER.
I love Rouge in idw comic
I legitimately don’t remember Rouge being in pre-Reboot Archie at all, and based on this video that’s probably for the best
If someone writing a story for an existing series doesn't like the original stories and only likes their own version of the characters, do they really even like the series, or are they just incapable of creating your own characters? I don't think anyone should be writing stories for a series if they can't keep to the original script and need to change and retcon things just to fit their own narrative.
good video but the audio makes me feel like i have a hearing problem lol
I never got that into the franchise, but from what exposure I have had to the character, I always thought she was basically Fujiko Mine from Lupin the 3rd 😆
14:54 I never really minded, as long as the reference fits with the situation.
Do Rogue and Knuckles ever interact again after SA2?
0:39 flirt reminds me of a soccer game and how we smacktalk to the players to distract
15:46 KING!
[indecipherable rage noises]
Rouge was never on the top of my tier list, even if I'm just thinking about the games. So all versions of her characterization was more entertaining than what she was in the games at the time. The struggle was not making her a direct copy of Selina kyle.
Rouge was low key a lot of kids first moment of 'what is this strange feeling lmfao' ... Especially in sa2.
She had giggle physics before it was even popular. 😅
4:30 it’s like seeing Yzma in comic form
I still believe Pre Reboot to have one of the best world and characters in comic history and It's awesome considering this is was from a videogame
1:30 HE SAID IT, HE SAID THE THING.
Oh wow I love this. A rare character analysis on one of the most interesting characters introduced to the sonic world. That is why she was never forgotten and is consistent appearances on the series esp in Archie… you cannot ignore it.
She has that liberated female character that I really appreciate?? That’s just ME! She symbolized that and that’s why I enjoyed her next to blaze. They compliment how a woman can be. Of course Amy to me is unapologetically girl and fan girly which I also appreciated back in the day. I never thought it ended fixing because that’s how some young girls are like.
(Also rouge really said; ima eff your dad knuckles for ending up with another girl in this alternate storyline that is the Archie comics. That is the biggest flex. I remember finding that so wild as a kid. Penders always had crazy stories.)
They really should of left the crush out of it , she’s shown her logical friend side with shadow. Her crush on knuckles makes no sense and she is written in a ridiculous sexist way.
I mean if they kept the crush , they could of explored her lack of ability to connect with people genuinely if rouge does have a complex ‘eff girl ‘ issues. That has problems with interpersonal relationships and men. Explain that. Give reason why she’s a little shit like that. Maybe followed by real heart break for character growth but hey- that is just me when it comes to writing that type of character.
Wow… a good part of this video was Rouge just being a home-wrecker.
3:42 Woah, Rouge! How’s that body carrying all that head weight?!
I played SA2 when it was new and was stoked for a rouge and knuckles flirty plotline and it just simply never happened
Man, the art in the Archie comics is just… real rough to look at.
Why did ken focus on sonic scoring withladies
6:01...I guess the perception of art is subjective...I find that style awful, for me it looks as the work of an untalented child's doing anime fanart, but thats me. 12:20...I guess the art didn't got better. Rouge is my favorite female character from the Sonic characters I think it has a couple of things, literally a COUPLE of things, that make the public misinterpret her based solely on design, she is flirty, but that is not all she is, she is funny, intelligent, gray in her decisions...and yes, I totally love her dynamic with Knuckles and ship them, but one thing I like is that it's not you know... it's not her everything in life, unlike in the Archie comics, but to be fair I think most of the female characters in the Archie comics are like that, obsessed with the romantic object motivating their decisions and relevant changes, if only more seattle in some cases than in others. I also really like her dynamic with Shadow, period, which I feel like she's more of an older sister.
Why do the gloves contain claws
5:02 Alr, that was pretty funny
good thank you for reminding me about rouge’s phallic car
I've tried getting Archie Sonic a few times, but when I try to get back in, I can never remember where to start.
5:02 why did they do him so dirty they gave him such a huge chrome dome 😭