So, What are your thoughts on Knuckles and his character? Do you agree with my points made? Did I miss anything? Leave a comment below as I read EVERY single comment.
I also got asked to talk about Knuckles in the OVA and in Sonic X. For Sonic X, I plan on doing separate videos discussing each character in X, or one giant video talking about my thoughts on all the characters at once. As for the OVA, I thought he was pretty good there. He wasn't really a rival, but more of a friend. And it doesn't treat him like an idiot. He actually is helpful to both Sonic and Tails. I also plan to, at some point, discuss the OVA as a whole and really go in depth there.
Personally I feel as if guarding the master emerald is working against him, let me explain as long as he's the Guardian he can't really be a main character or important to the plot unless the master emerald is involved and we don't want him to be a bad guardian either. So what can they do with him?
I left a comment but I will a brief summary knuckles was at the end of heroes he was now a stowic hero who values and trust his friends has a playful relationship with rouge and might be falling in love and he’s finally happy doing his job hanging with friends and having a love life
@@thepjshow I couldn’t agree more with everything you said (even the topic of Shadow taking Knuckles’ place as Sonic’s friendly arch-rival even though in Sonic Boom, he was anything but. Not as a major flaw, but just as a fact)
I mostly know Knuckles from a handful of Archie comics, the IDW ones, and some cartoons-only more recently have I seen videos like this that give me more info on his character. But from my own experience with sonic, Knuckles is my favourite character, because I found him the most relatable. Being isolated and feeling a step behind everyone else, constantly feeling the weight of responsibility? That’s just adulting in a nutshell 🥲
SEGA takes the characters biggest flaws and boost them up to 100 Sonic’s flaw: He’s cocky annoying sometimes but he knows when to get serious New sonic: cocky annoying, and barley gets serious Tails flaw: Sonic’s side kick, scared sometimes. New tails: Needs sonic or he’s useless Knuckles flaw: in some games he’s naive and gets tricked easily New knuckles: LOL I’m dumb
@@atre5763 in Knuckles' SA2 music which is all in his perspective he actually mentions Rouge being a double agent, it's a shame they don't throw stuff like that in for him anymore
Remember that knuckles is NOT dumb at all, he's been isolated all his life protecting the master emerald, how in the world would he know how social interaction works decades later?
for me he's more innocent than stupid, he has been isolated from contact with other being in years, i dont like whne fans compare gmaes version with boom version, with isnt bad in my opinion, but both are very diferent versions
@@zimtak6418 well it makes sense considering his whole deal was everywhere you go, he had a button he could press to knock you into more danger. I liked how in Triple Trouble Nack tried doing the same thing, only for it to blow up on him, showing him to WANT to be that kind of guy, but he doesnt quite know what hes doing.
It's important to note that Knuckles _doesn't_ immediately believe Eggman in Sonic Adventure. He actually decides to go ask Sonic and get his side of the story, which he didn't do in 3K. It's only when he sees Sonic holding a green gem that Knuckles assumes to be a Master Emerald shard that he starts throwing punches. This is because Knuckles is very protective of the Master Emerald, and is unlikely to be diplomatic with someone that he now has absolute proof (or so he thinks) is after the Master Emerald. Also, he still hasn't had much social interaction, so diplomacy isn't his strong suit anyway.
But even if he believed Sonic was after the Master Emerald pieces, how does he know he isn't trying to help him restore it? How does he know Sonic won't hand them over to him as soon as he sees him? I mean... what else is Sonic going to do with the Master Emerald? Especially after he went out of his way to return it to him once before. And if he saw Sonic with what looked like a piece of it, he could've just asked him, "What are you doing with that Master Emerald piece?!" and then found out more easily that it wasn't.
@@JStryker47 He kind of does. He throws a few punches, and then demands Sonic hands over "all the Emeralds" he has. Sonic response? "I'd like to see you take them" Sure, Knuckles could've asked nicer, or chosen his words better, but Sonic was just as hotheaded here
@@JStryker47 If Sonic was trying to help him restore it, he would have handed it over when Knuckles told him to. And again, Knuckles isn't diplomatic. He doesn't know how to ask nicely for something, especially when it's already his.
@@JStryker47 When you're hotheaded and angry that can cloud your judgment. He spent his entire life defending the emerald, ofcoarse he's gonna go on the offensive to protect it if it's in any real or perceived danger. Thats just his character, atleast it was until he was himbo-fied.
@@NinjaKingAce Sonic's reasonably defensive considering it's not the first time Knuckles attacked him to get the Chaos Emeralds. I wouldn't call him hotheaded at all. Knuckles sees Sonic carrying a green gem and thinks Eggman was right about Sonic stealing the shards for himself after all. Sonic gets attacked by Knuckles and gets told to "hand over the Emeralds" and thinks Knuckles is trying to steal the Chaos Emeralds again. Both of their reactions to each other make perfect sense to me. Knuckles saw what he needed to see to believe what Eggman told him, and Sonic's thinking "oh not this s*** again"
"Back off or you're gonna get hurt!" Literally any line that sounds serious from Knuckles makes us know he is not joking around. That's why I love this Echidna
Idris Elba made me fall in love with Knuckles again. He’s not trying to be the comic relief in the movie, but unintentionally is because he’s so serious all the time and all about honor and being the best warrior. Sonic likes to do all those one-liner jokes and pop culture references, which works for his character. For instance, the Vin Diesel/ Rock beef joke he made had my whole theatre laughing. Also thank god Sonic had a cute redesign. Could you imagine how horrifying Knuckles, Tails and Shadow would’ve look?
He kinda reminds me of Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy. But then near the end he essentially tells Tails he'll get him back for being run over in such a jokey way. It's a great piece of character development not to mention I really want to see Knuckles and Tails rooms in the Wackowski home. Even if their staying in Sonic's room they must have their own space and beds.
oh my god i didnt even think about what tails and knuckles wouldve looked like had they not done the redesigns. i think that wouldve made these movies rated R from how horrifying they'd look
I like that they made him just naive about the world and still has much to learn instead of plain dumb. Can’t wait to see his development in sonic 3 lol.
In the new Sonic movie, I like how while they kept him kinda dumb, but he’s also a badass. It makes sense due to him not originally being from Earth and also being the last of his kind. This was my favorite portrayal of his character out of any
@@bluewulv Say what will about the Archie Comics but at least they did a good job at maintaining Sonic and Knux being equals (especially post-reboot) while treating the other rival characters with respect. E.g: You'll never see Knux and Shadow going head to head and matching each other only to put aside their differences to beat a common enemy and later finding a new sense of respect to each other (partly thanks to having similar opinions towards Sonic) in the games.
Knuckles when they got the 2010 writers hired: "Oh no." I feel like the Sonic Movie sequel will do some justice to his character. The first movie may not have been perfect, but I enjoyed it a lot so I think they will handle his character well. Knuckles deserves better than this.
Also Knuckles with the 2010s writers: I WILL PUNCH SONIC JUST LIKE HE PUNCHED ME FOR FORGETTING AMY ROSE’S DATE LIKE IN BLACK KNIGHT WHEN HE LIED TO HER THAT HE WAS KING ARTHUR, SHE WAS “A NICER VERSION OF HERSELF” THAT IS NIMUE AND THAT I WAS SIR GAWAIN!!!!! Sonic (sounding just like Knuckles himself in the SX episode “Cracking Knuckles”): *ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!!*
When I think of Amy Rose at her worst (even for her before Sonic Boom) in Sonic Free Riders, I think of Knuckles at HIS worst in Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (and I thought he was at his worst in Lost World, the Ken Penders comics, ‘06 and Forces, but wow!). Yeah, exceptionally dense! - Knuckles in Sonic Free Riders (m.th-cam.com/video/AhL4m3JrzQI/w-d-xo.html)
Sonic 2 may not be a perfect movie, but its portrayal of Knuckles makes me want to cry tears of joy. I'm praying that Sega takes notes from the movies for his characterization in future games
18:55 “What? just because i’m a meathead doesn’t mean i’m not a feminist.” actually made me cackle a little, Boom Knuckles (tv series one) is great and i adore knuckles in general for every lil aspect of him. tho, they did him dirty for making him an absolute dumbass or a minor character in some games.. Edit: glad to see a lot of people agree that boom knuckles is nice :)
I thought Knuckles was so cool as a kid. I would imitate his poses in the games and I think my family still has an embarrassing picture of one of those instances >.
wasn't as dedicated to any..thing..really. however had respect for how things were. knuckles was indeed supposed to be super cool. Like, I felt he was supposed to have a cool demeanor. be strong and maybe a bit ambiguous on how he gets things done, maybe
Do you feel like the Sonic 2 movie has vindicated Knuckles, made you feel good about the character again? I feel like this video is about to get another couple hundred thousand views
Oh yeah. I love what they did with his character in the film. It may actually be my favourite incarnation of the character but we will have to see what they do with the character from here on out.
Making Knuckles the idiot on the receiving end of all the slapstick is redundant. That's the role they put Team Chaotix into when they came back for Heroes, and honestly their Three Stooges type shenanigans are a lot more entertaining than anything with Dumb Knuckles.
Ironically, they literally just don't use Team Chaotix for comedy anymore. The last time we really got anything funny from them was Vector's appearance in Free Riders.(And he basically stole the show in that game anyhow. Or rather saved the show, considering how lazy that plot actually was)
Man, this feels like exactly what happened with Piccolo in Dragon Ball. He was introduced and was a fantastic rival to Goku and had an amazing character ark of becoming allies with him, then a new rival was introduced in Vegeta, causing Piccolo to be tossed to the side as a plot dump character and nothing more.
you’re wrong about that, Piccolo fought Android 17 after Vegeta got his ass handed to him in Super Saiyan form against Android 18, in Buu’s Saga he was dead. In Super, he showed up on both tournaments of power. Just bc he isn’t as strong doesn’t mean they did him dirty, he is still a recurring character and very important
Knuckles was a misunderstood character. Back in the 90s, people thought Knuckles was pure evil. He put in work into making Sonic look like a joke, but when it was revealed that he wasn't actually a bad person, it was such a big deal. It really showed how perspective really changes our view. But nowadays, when people play Sonic 3 & Knuckles for the first time, people just laugh at how gullible he is. Sonic Adventure gave us his perspective this time, which at least added more depth to his character (even if it wasn't written the best way), but in Sonic Advance 2, and in the OK KO special, this gullible trait is exaggerated for stupid flanderized humor, and nothing else. The whole argument that "Knuckles isn't dumb, he's just gullible" just doesn't work anymore, because the way he's tricked is just done in the way that makes him look like an idiot. To me, his character became the punching bag since Sonic X. It's not a bad portrayal, because he does have some serious moments and a reason why he's not guarding the Master Emerald, but a lot of times, he was there to make Sonic look good in comparison. Remember in Sonic 3, he put in effort to make Sonic look bad? But now, everyone makes him look like a joke. He's more gullible, hotheaded, and is obsessed with beating Sonic. Knuckles' top priority is to guard the Master Emerald. His rivalry with Sonic was more secondary to his character. But without the Master Emerald, it seems like that's the only thing he cares about in games like Sonic Generations and Lost World. Even Shadow in the IDW comics is falling into this flanderization. Sonic Forces put him in the right direction but fails due to bad writing. It shows that Sega understood that fans missed the more serious Knuckles. Knuckles is such an important and complex character, and I'm sad to see him being downgraded as the joke sidekick.
While Knuckles' portrayal in Forces wasn't as bad as Generations and Lost World, still far from essential, I mean look at the Operation Big Wave mission, he literally though that strategy in one minute and a half, and most soldiers were seriously hurt or died in that mission
@@ayrtonjoga Yeah, I agree. It was awesome that he was chosen as the leader of the resistance, but that scene was definitely a little off. Although, I do think people exaggerate it, it was written in a way that seems like Knuckles put in more effort into the name than the actual plan. Knuckles personality wasn’t the best either, as he seems to put on this general like attitude. One moment he looks like he tries so hard to look serious, but then the next he’s like “did you guys see how cool I am?!” Like he is trying too hard to get his fans back.
The movie Knuckles seems like a good character development, I hope it influences the game character, since he wasn't a complete fool in it, but still has that awkwardness because of his social isolation.
Knuckles went from being a badass and a threat To a dumbass And now back to a badass and a threat Same goes for tails Basically everything just came in full circle with the new sonic movie
Oh, you have no idea. I love what they've done with Knuckles in the movie. You can get a clearer idea of this from my reaction and analysis of the trailer.
@Cuphead with a Glock then what's the excuse for Burning Blaze when she gets all the Sol Emeralds? Close enough to a super form since it was essentially the same concept I'd say.
I recall in the OVA Knuckles was an explorer and a treasure hunter, he wasn’t stuck guarding the emerald 24/7. He also wasn’t a joke at that point, he acted on his own but was a team player who cared about the others. I think that all happened after Sonic CD, for sure before Sonic Adventure.
@@SeniorSatoru Honestly, I'm thinking that maybe like him realising what Robotnik was gonna do with the Master Emerald might inspire him to be the honorary guardian and ensure no one like Robotnik will steal it for their own misdeeds. Who knows that maybe Knuckles might get that role in the spin-off (provided that it isn't a prequel and more of an intermission between Sonic 2 and 3). (Edit: I was right)
2:10-2:52 And that’s why he’s so underrated, even by Sega themselves to the point where they decided to bring his negative representation of what he’s originally lied to be like in the mid 1990s - early 2000s (and sometimes after like in Sonic Mania and Ian Flynn comics)
Honestly, Sega should take down notes from the new Sonic movie about Knuckles' character because fans definitely want Knuckles to be taken seriously and look more like a badass character.
Sooo is anyone gonna say that the new Sonic movie actually did the plot of the sonic 3 game as he works with eggman, gets betrayed, teams up with sonic, becomes friends.
Pretty much EVERY character was simplified down into base stereotypes over time... Shadow became edgy, Knuckles became a meathead, Tails became the nerdy sidekick, Amy regressed to her role as "the girl" character who likes Sonic, Eggman became the comedic Saturday morning cartoon villain, and Sonic only makes snarky quips that aren't even good jokes.
"Only Male Hedgehogs Can Use Super Forms" They're borderline stopping themselves from being creative. Like, why can't characters like Knuckles and Espio use that kind of power? It would allow for a lot more potential to be unshackled from their current positions as characters, and not only that, given that Knuckles' tribe have strong connections to the Master Emerald, I think it's complete bullshit that he can't use its power to go super more often. Sega honestly need to get their act together and start treating him with respect, honestly even Penders treated him better, and everyone hates him. Lol
It still hurts that the only time a non-hedgehog went super in modern times was when Tails and Knux went super in Heroes...and it sucked nuts!(Like "actual tragedy"-levels of suck. The weird generic super shields look so stupidly out of place when Sonic can keep his previous super-design.)
@@fangirldreamer748 Blaze has one. But they barely use it anymore. Personally, I don't think Amy and Rouge really need one given how good they are at fighting. But I don't see why Knuckles can't retain his. It's sad and stupid Sega's not willing to change up the formula anymore, especially when they've been open to it in the past, and it's all due to their stupid mindset of dropping something that fails, and trying something else, whilst pushing the previous idea under the rug permanently. Like, no... refine your ideas, don't make a game for the sole purpose of throwing a hissy fit when people make fun of it, or give it a bad review.
And what about blaze "Oh but that wasnt a super form" Man doesnt matter what it was called it worked exactely like super sonic And what on blaze's dimension only female cats can go super? That restriction is so dumb
Just saw Sonic 2 in theaters, and I can say with confidence that Knuckles’ character has been restored to what it’s supposed to have been. I’m so impressed with the movie crew, just wish Halo’s producers would’ve done the same with their show
I didn't play the old games but I found Knuckles slightly annoying in the movie, he was funny (especially at the end, I liked the way he takes everything literaly) but his rambling about pride looked like Vegeta or Sonic Boom Shadow
@@kafei-creme I can understand why it'd be annoying, but it was one of his most prominent character traits early on. It's also one of the main reasons him and Sonic clash later on despite being on good terms. Knuckles' emphasis on his own personal code of honor and pride in his status as being the last Echidna and guardian of the Master Emerald is what often leads to him duking it out with Sonic from time to time even after they became friends. Of course that typically only lasts till they introduce Shadow and he gets relegated to a background character instead of being Sonic's rival. Hopefully that's not something that happens with the movies, but the writers have done a great job so far giving me hope.
@@DoctorOaks An arc I thought about for STH3 was Knuckles having to make a choice between the emerald and Sonic. He picks the emerald and then Sonic and Tails feel betrayed and then the rest of the movie is devoted to Knuckles getting to terms with his friends again. I came up with this in 40 seconds, I know it's a terrible arc.
considering they changed how sonic looked in the first movie due to internet backlash it's clear the movie crew paid attention to the fandom. I have a sneaking suspicion this video helped get knuckles back in the second movie.
@@darealepic because Sakurai has somewhat of dislike for platformer games that he himself didn't make. so rather than taking from warioland, he based all of Wario's attacks of speculation from warioware. he did briefly fart at the end of one of the micro games but it was never this giant explosion that it became in smash.
I feel so bad for knuckles, honestly. He's literally so adorable and he's been watching that emerald for years, YEARS. He needs a break, ever since eggman lied to knuckles, knuckles isn't dumb or anything, he just thought eggman wasn't lying because he HAS to watch the Emerald-- in fact, I heard that if he doesn't watch the emerald. his island will fall, I don't know why and the meaning behind this island and this emerald, but I feel like he should just take a break and hang out with some people, live an knuckles life lmao, but maybe sonic, tails, knuckles himself maybe got along because he probably seen maybe that sonic isn't that one to take an emerald NOR tails himself too.
It’s not the Knuckles ISN’T slightly gullible or hotheaded, it’s that he’s more than JUST those character traits. If you crank his trusting nature to the extreme and just make him an idiot, you’re losing the part of his characterization that is a disciplined and respected fighter, and the same goes for if you just make him a strong warrior with a short temper and forget that he can also be laid-back. He isn’t just impulsive, or trusting, or any one of his other character traits, he is all of those things and more! He can be a rival to Sonic and still be his friend, he can be very serious about his duty to the Emerald and still be generally chill, and he can be overly trusting in the good nature of others while still being clever. None of these traits are contradictory!
exactly! like what you said about how they just keep emphasising some of his traits and then neglecting others despite them all being important parts of his personality, they ripped away the balance of his personality for cheap comedy and it's honestly so frustrating because he used to be so cool and well written :((
When it comes to rivals for Sonic, I usually think of 3: Knuckles, Shadow, and Metal Sonic. I also feel like they reflect Sonic in different ways. Watch PJSHOW's analysis on the other two. You'll understand. Just like how Sonic is most known for his speed, Knuckles is most known for his Strength and there's also their skin color, blue for Sonic and red for Knuckles, as they're primary colors along with yellow (like Tails). He's also more introverted, serious and responsible when compared to Sonic who's more extroverted, lighthearted and carefree, but he does become more like a mix between personalities overtime. What I think makes Knuckles unique is because he feels like a natural rival to Sonic instead of being created by scientists, he is an echidna unlike Shadow and Metal Sonic just like how hedgehogs and echidnas are similar but different just like Sonic and Knuckles and he feels like a good hearted rival. I would say he feels like a friend/rival to Sonic. They start off with a rivalry, but overtime, they become friends while still keeping their rivalry. He is the perfect contrast to Sonic. That's just my opinion.
It honestly feels as if the writers during the 2010s never even knew about his title as the guardian of the Master Emerald. I can't recall one time where Knuckles even mentioned the Master Emerald or Angel Island.
He actually uses the Master Emerald for his All-Star Move, temporarily before sending it back BUT the first is much more accurate, he only summons it for a moment then sends it back while the second has it with him the entire time the All Star is active which would actually make Angel Island fall, a few seconds gone wouldn't really be devastating since putting the Emerald back will just have it continously float up and it has infinite energy so there's no need to worry about this process ending up not working sometime in the future if it is abused.
The last time the Master Emerald/Angel Island was explicitly shown in the Modern 3D/Main-series era was in a canon tie-in Forces prequel comic (not connected to IDW tho) where he leaves the M.E unguarded and out in the open to join Silver in the resistance... :/
Something I’m really glad that they did in Sonic Movie 2 is not making movie knuckles the guardian of the master emerald, so they don’t have to constantly come up with an excuse for him to be around since he’s not tied to angel island anymore because of it. Not to mention, movie knuckles as a whole is my favorite interpretation of knuckles by far, with them making him more of a “Smart and skilled warrior, but naive and lacks social skills” similar to Drax instead of a “meatheaded moron” which he’s been characterized as for god knows how long now, and im glad that a new generation will know knuckles as the former instead of “sonic’s stupid friend”
Damn, the investigation for this video, crazy. Loved how you examined Knuckles. Sincerely didn't know too much about the character, only really saw him portrayed in Sonic Boom (love that series btw). Incredible video!!
The upcoming Sonic film sequel seems to be giving Knuckles his due respect... _hopefully_ ! It would be especially cool if the film uses some version of his Sonic Adventure theme tune during the film(or afterwards too)!
Even if they make him serious and well-made, i hope just ONE "do u no da wae" will be introduced at some point AT LEAST ONCE, even just the sentence or smth even if he says it in a serious way. Memes are life, and this is my favourite character partly for that but mostly because i thought he was cool when i played the first games.
I never really saw Knuckles as Sonics “rival” since he was talked into being his enemy. Once he learned that Sonic and gang were on his side, he became friends. Can’t forget the guy was on a floating island alone his whole life, he had some social issues, but over time he learned how to really be a friend. I would akin him more to Picolo than Vegeta in the sense of being an enemy turned friend, whereas Shadow may be friendly with Sonic but he will always try to prove he is the “ultimate life form” thus making him Sonic real rival.
Here's how I would write his character: he's well versed in Ancient civilizations and even gems, understanding more about the Emeralds than. However, due to his isolated upbringing, he's not too smart when it comes to social or modern affairs. He wants to see the good in other people, but his own wariness that borders on paranoia makes that difficult, which leads people to branding him a Knucklehead, pun entirely intended.
I love the idea of Knuckles having a humourous side, and I love the idea of being shown how he slowly begins to open up. It was really weird to see how in the games knuckles didn't really say a word about the master emerald. Despite that being one of the most important things in Knuckles life. I do really miss that team sonic dynamic, and it sucks that he was pushed so far in the back. As if he wasn't part of that team at all. But I think Knuckles being a bit socially awkward makes sense. Specially since he was isolated so long. I would've love to see them play more with that concept. Maybe like, how sonic and tails help him get used to socializing more, and learning how to take a breather. But then maybe it can be shown just how much he holds dear his role of protecting the emerald. How that can clash with hanging out with sonic and tails all the time.
Honestly, I disagree with Knuckles even considering being in a team at all. Before Heroes, he was never really a part of the team, he's doing his own thing until he happens to run into Sonic and decides to help out while he's doing his own thing. He can definitely become more trusting and sociable, but he's never going to even consider going on your adventure because he's always busy with his, compared to, say, Tails always helping Sonic unconditionally.
Knuckles is a character I hold deep to me as someone I relate to and it's sad how his character has been butchered in official games like this. I'd really like to play as him again with more rap songs giving a further inside of his character, showing his doubts and feelings of the story and each stage he's in. He may not be Sonic's rival anymore, but he has his own purpose Shadow doesn't have.
The problem is that Sega believes that people hate the playable characters in Sonic Adventure 2 outside of Sonic. So Sega won't let Knuckles be playable and if Knuckles can't be playable Sega doesn't see a use for knuckles anymore other than being stupid.
Movie knuckles was a FANTASTIC step in the right direction. Instead of making him straight up dumb, they made him brave warrior who just doesn’t understand earth customs. So they made him a brave warrior while still making him kinda have the same hotheaded personality he has in newer games. The movie saved Knuckles’ character and I hope they don’t make shadow completely overSHADOW him.
I think it comes down to the master emerald. When it is "a thing", then the only way to get him to participate in the Story, is to have it shattered, stolen or threatened (again!). When it is there, it dominates his story and actions. They cut it out for Heroes, so he could be part of the story. But that also meant a lot if his traits no longer made sense and had no basis.
my main headcanon for the Master Emerald's disappearance is that Knuckles decided to hide it in some underground vault on Angel Island and just leave it there and that's why it's basically no longer relevant
@@Wildcard_Ninja Im pretty sure that is a concept explored in one of the comics, but in the recent ones I like the concept that Angel Island could serve as their final refuge to his allies like Kami's lookout in Dragon Ball (which im pretty sure is its direct inspiration)
They could easily just have the master emerald be stolen by metal sonic and Knuckles got jumped and overwhelmed by him. The master emerald could play a role by being the reason Metal sonic is able to construct metal madness. It's so simple.
I'm so glad the second sonic movie is going to bring back cool knuckles, I've been *really* tired of comedy relief knuckles for a while now "do I look like I need your power?" already tells me he'll be portrayed better than he's been portrayed in years, and hopefully he appears better in the games too
I think what makes it worse is that we already have a handful of "himbos" in sonic. Storm, Vector, hell even Big could be considered a himbo. Knuckles now kinda feels like what Big used to be in the SA games.
I like how Sonic X gives Rouge a bigger motive for going after the Master Emerald as it was part of her cover to fool Eggman. I wish they would take notes from the successful Adventure titles, Heroes, and the gba games and create a game that gives the characters back the growth and traits that we grew to love.
Knuckles was originally Sonic’s rival but after shadow (Vegeta the hedgehog basically) showed up they didn’t know what to do with knuckles so they just cut him off with any of the action and made Shadow part of the spotlight
@@johnking9943 not exactly cause Knuckles and Piccolo have nothing in common besides the whole rivalry with the main character but then again that could be said for many other characters
@@johnking9943 and a lot of characters have been pushed back from important to a joke so can’t exactly put it as copies from each other but if you want to think Piccolo and Knuckles are similar then go ahead it’s very true
Lets all remember that Knuckles will be in the movie sequel and the writers of the movie love Knuckles, so there could be hope for him, just in a different media.
They probably """love""" stupid Knuckles from the new games bro. They butchered Sonic's character in the first movie, so I have no idea why people would think they care about doing the characters justice or have the capacity to do it right. But I guess literally no one cares that they got Sonic absolutely wrong in the movie though lol because literally no one knows what Sonic's personality should be like, so I guess everything I'm saying is pointless. Watch the movie make Knuckles the opposite of what he should be and everyone will still praise it infinitely, just like the first one.
@@Msp0309 Or you know... They could base it off Sonic when he used to have a personality before the 2010s, which was quite unique, interesting, and enjoyable. But that doesn't _sell_ as well to normie western film audiences apparently my dude. You know what _does_ sell? An awkward, unsure of himself, wide eyed, young, Redditor meme ass, Fortnite dancing, "relatable" Sonic that could be replaced with any character and it would fit just as well. _Oh and give him a pathetically unfitting "baby" version too for cute marketing plushies!!!_ It was all for safe, copy paste marketing, not because it would improve anything. They don't give a shit about the series or it's fans. Just look at that original design, those people unironically thought that would be okay before showing it. They then ran their animation company or whatever bankrupt by caving to complaints and utilizing the situation for positive press, even though the whole mess was one _they_ created in the first place. And it totally worked. People loved their shitty, passionless film. I'm gonna go off here, there is nothing Sonic about that movie. You could replace the "Sonic" branding stuff as Smurfs or some shit and it would be the same thing. It's a formula, and their changes accommodated to that money making formula only. "Realistic cartoon CG thing in da real world with white actor man sidekick and wacky hi-jinks while making soon to be dated modern pop culture references while playing pop songs" is a thing they've done to death time and time again. But because they slapped Sonic on the tin and caved (at their workers expense) when Twitter yelled at them suddenly it's fucking amazing. Blows my fucking mind. Not a hint of passion or care whatsoever.
@@Squishito Do you really think they were gonna put Sonic's personality from Unleashed or Black Knight despite him being a literal kid in the movie? Lol Especially in a movie marketed to non sonic fans, still there's a ton of easter eggs for the fans, so it's not like they "don't give a sh!t", they just tried to make an enjoyable movie to everyone, not groundbreaking, not innovative, just enjoyable
As a Blaze fan it makes me glad she's underutilized, if this is how Sega allows one the oldest, quintessential Sonic characters to be treated as well as perceived.
Would’ve made more sense if Tails made him a security camera at the island so he can visit them more, and knuckles would mention it in ‘06. And to keep Knuckles as Sonic’s rival Shadow should have visited him to train with him which would explain how he remains strong while guarding the emerald.
I hate how overlooked is the fact that Knuckles is supposed to be as strong as Sonic is fast. That's hella strong. I think it's even mentioned in a manual or something
I'm astonished you didn't mention the absolute lowest low of Knuckles' characterization, and perhaps the Sonic series' writing in general: Operation Big Wave. Knuckles: "I thought up this plan in about a minute and a half." (about a minute and a half later) Amy: "80% of our forces have been wiped out!" Knuckles being an idiot may have been somewhat amusing before, but it is officially no longer funny now that his stupidity has actually gotten a ton of people KILLED.
I remember watching this show called Sonic Underground as a kid and I've gotta say while it's from what I can tell just another sort of spinoff sorta show, it's writing was done really really well with all of its characters, especially knuckles. When I think back to that show I recall knuckles in angel Island and the friendship he had with sonic and his siblings. probably one of the most striking things was the way the writers incorporated the struggle between going to help his friends in trouble and sticking to his duty and the various ways they did so. Id say if you haven't watched it, for a kids show it was pretty damn good. It really for me at least showed the struggle he had and the hard-line decisions that he had to make sometimes
Looks like the movie's gonna bring him back to his roots. I gotta say, I didn't expect him to sound like that after all this time. Ben Schwartz was a great Sonic, being an energetic goof. Colleen Somethingoranother (the surname is too long for me to remember, sorry) is a nice pick for Tails, being a young yet determined partner. And Ides Elba, Heimdal himself, is so damn badass sounding! Granted, it's pretty much inevitable that Jim Carey is going to frame Sonic for endangering the Master Emerald, but I'm sure he'll have his reasons for falling for it.
I'd argue that Sonic Chronicles was the last game that had Knuckles' character left intact while also exploring Echidna lore with the Nocturnus Clan (although, it's been a while since I last played that game and am aware that this game harbors conflicting opinions).
That game had so much potential with the lore. It set the groundwork for so much of Knuckles history and to expand on his story. I'm sad we never got a sequel
@@Realdeal958 Honestly, I liked Chronicles and know there are some flaws with the game that hold it back. A sequel could have fixed/improved upon everything that was set up. But because of one individual...#FucKenPenders
Imagine how I feel as someone who grew up on the Archie comics. Knuckles was legitimately the strongest and most intelligent character in the series. Naive? yes, and for the same reason. Also, hyper-knuckles.
I feel like the Sonic Boom show is my only exception to a lot character issues because the show knows its dumb and taking these characters to extreme personalities. It's very self aware so I can enjoy the chaos that happens in the show.
Honestly in the sonic 2 movie I wasn’t even rooting for sonic, I was rooting for knuckles. The movie made him so badass imo and way more serious then how Sega had made him.
I personally think a lot of SEGA's nonsensical characterization choices in this series can actually be traced back to Sonic X. Knuckles wasn't actually dumb in that series, but the rest of the characters generally acted like he was. This reaction from others, and his hotheadedness were his primary traits in that show. This, I believe, is also why Amy was usually typecast as a violent stalker in the 2000's games. Because they were both written to facilitate cliché Japanese comedy routines, even though the games never did anything funny with either of them. Instead of just accepting Sonic X as a spin off like the older extraneous media, SEGA bent the game world to better fit its storyline. This is also why they put the Sonic X voice cast into the games, and why we have the whole 2 worlds thing nowadays. But they've never fully committed to it because they're also chasing Nintendo's success with minimalist storytelling. God, it's frustrating.
Couldn’t agree more. It boggles my mind that more people don’t see how Sonic X is where Knuckles’ personality and writing started taking a turn for the worst.
Most of us were kids or teens when the show came out, so we didn't really analyze its choices. And the ones who did get critical of it mostly just bashed Chris Thorndyke for being a spoiled wet blanket. It takes time & perspective to look back and see the patterns of influence throughout the franchise.
Don't get me wrong; I like Sonic X and have no real objection to Knuckles's characterization there. But in hindsight, it clearly affected the way SEGA wrote him in the games, leading to the semi-gradual dumbing down of his character. Boom Knuckles was the logical endpoint of that direction. Forces Knuckles, though, makes no sense. Like... Him stepping up to fill the gap while Sonic is under lockdown makes sense, but being the tactical leader of the resistance is just strange after so many years of him being treated like a moron. Nowadays, it seems like he isn't that dumb anymore, but SEGA doesn't know what he is, so he's just there. Like, you could swap him out with a generic NPC and nothing would change.
@@ShelbyAQD Nah... Forces Knux is arguably worst because he left the Master Emerald unguarded and out in the open on Angel Island in the canon tie-in Forces prequel comics and he got countless resistance members killed in operation Big-Wave yet felt zero regrets about it.
Sonic characters don't emote anymore. Emotions aren't fun and cool, man. XD Regardless, he's been leaving the Master Emerald unguarded since Sonic Heroes. I don't think it's even been mentioned in-game since Sonic Battle, aside from the rather Knuckles-centric Sonic Chronicles.
I honestly never had a problem with Knuckles willingly shattering the Master Emerald in order to stop Eggman from obtaining it. It shows that Knuckles has this willingness to do whatever it takes to stop it from falling into the wrong hands. Plus, if it just broke accidentally, you know that everyone nowadays would look back on that scene and go "UH OH, HE LET THE MASTER EMERALD GET BROKEN AGAIN! HERPY DERP, ISN'T HE A MORON?" God, I hate that attitude towards this character!
The thing I despise most about storytelling in general is when a writer successfully makes a good story; one with relatable complex characters, memorable environments and world concepts… and then it's sequel(s) gets butchered horribly by different writers that knew nothing about the original writer's intentions whatsoever! It's a problem that I see a lot in movies and certain video games, but the Sonic Team franchise as a whole just takes the cake with this sort of stuff. It's depressing. :(
OMG Thank you for drawing attention to this! He's my favorite and I feel the exact same way! Even regarding Sonic Boom, I wanted to be mad but he was hilarious 😂
Also how he serves no purpose especially Forces and the Omega in Episode Shadow was not the real Omega, it's truly disrespectful and he deserves better.
@@kingx1024 Honestly justice for everyone, they've been continuing the idea of only Sonic facing the final bosses since Unleashed and how nobody else can do anything, seriously remember when it was Shadow who saved the world in his game eventually being accepted by everyone including GUN? Well since the start of the Meta Era, that game has never existed and all that development since Last Story of his game has been retconned.
ArtistAnthony ya man, it’s sad how so many characters have lost any significance so Sonic and Classic Sonic can continuously get the spotlight. Omega/Rouge last story importance was in 06 and that was retconned by itself. Team Chaotix last story importance was in Shadow. Just to name a few, however I don’t know what they should do to fix this problem. Too many characters to make playable at this point.
I honestly think the new movie did him justice. It did a great job of not only making him serious and powerful, but also using his social ineptitude as his comic relief/dumbassery trait. Which, is honestly the best way to mesh the two Stereotypical types of knuckles.
I mean I've always hated how he doesn't have a super form anymore. He's the guardian of the most important emerald of all time, it doesn't make sense that he doesn't have a super form anymore.
The whole "Haha Eggman keeps tricking him lol" point has always rubbed me the wrong way. Like bruh, Eggman has tricked Sonic just as many times if not more
It looks like Knuckles is slowly returning to his former glory in the Sonic the Hedgehog 2 movie where, near the end of the trailer, Knuckles is seen grabbing Sonic while in his supercharged ball form and punching him to the ground weakening Sonic. That’s the Knuckles we all know and love. EDIT: I was right. Knuckles is great in the movie, the balance between our preferred Knuckles and the more humorous version seen in Sonic Boom is greatly handled.
At 20:39 it reminds me how in SpongeBob Patrick had a funny act in the first 4 seasons but in later seasons he is made a meat head against Steven Hilinburg's old look at Patrick.
I'd also like to add that in S3&K, there was a mural of Eggman v. Sonic, and Eggman was presenting himself as the hero of the prophesy. In Adventure he did not attack until he saw a shine in Sonic's hand he saw as confirmation. The Adventure conflict wasn't "good," but it was far from absurd or moronic. Knuckles has never been stupid and has often actually been portrayed as rather smart: he knew a ton of quirks in Angel island, he successfully navigated a social world he had never been part of in Adventure by leaving the island, he often had puzzle-like scenarios in Adventure 2 and Heroes, and as you mentioned he was a translator in the Riders series. These are not the traits of a stupid person; he was just socially isolated all his life and messed up a lot in that particular sphere as a totally expected result.
"In Generations he was just a cheerleader" I mean, to be fair, that was everyone's role in Generations. I dont think that's necessarily bad writing for Knuckles specifically just for the game itself. No one was important who showed up there save sonic and Eggman. And I guess maybe the three rival battles. I can understand people being upset he wasn't one of those. But the hedgehog rivals filling those makes sense too.
Honestly, I am kinda not fine with it either way. Just because everyone got the same damage doesn't mean that it's suddenly not damage anymore. Ironically, Shadow actually got downplayed more than Knuckles tho, because the fight just doesn't make a lot of sense conceptually.
@@PeterGriffin11 The problem is that Sega believes that people hate the playable characters in Sonic Adventure 2 outside of Sonic. So Sega won't let Knuckles be playable and if Knuckles can't be playable Sega doesn't see a use for knuckles anymore other than being stupid.
13:49 I have a possible explanation to this mishap. The fact that Sonic can't fly might be the reason why he landed the way he did. Throughout his games we see him running insanely fast and falling from great heights. He's used to this. Tails and Knuckles can fly and glide, but they're not as graceful as Sonic on their feet. They were probably caught off guard by being teleported and neither of them had time to find their bearings quickly enough to ease their descent. Also, since Sonic is the fastest, he probably just naturally has a quicker reaction time than Tails and Knuckles, so he had sufficient time to adjust.
I don't think that really tracks. Both Tails and Knuckles should have experience with falling since, as its mentioned, one can fly and one can glide. Unless they don't make use of their unique abilities at all, they should have practice with it, as much as Sonic does. Besides which, that fall was pretty slow so even if they had slow reaction they should still have plenty of time to react.
@@eirmundgundnand9442 another possibility is that the fall we're shown is slower than what it actually was. Either way, Sonic has a faster reaction time than both, so it's entirely probable that he had enough time to react while Tails and Knuckles were simply caught off guard.
@@PotatoSlices You're not understanding. Both Tails and Knuckles have abilities that revolve around being in the air. Both should have plenty of experience with those abilities and falling. They shouldn't need to react as the muscle memory should be ingrained. Their reactions should be just as fast as Sonic's, if not faster.
@@eirmundgundnand9442 their reactions simply can't be faster than Sonic's. Sonic is the fastest thing in their universe tied with Shadow (although there's, admittedly, an extensive debate on that). You need reflexes to match the speed in order to be able to properly utilize it. Sonic is shown landing on his feet at quick speeds multiple times throughout his games. In Sonic Adventure he's shown wall jumping through pads, which require reflexes that neither Tails nor Knuckles have been shown to possess. In the opening cutscene for this very same game you see Sonic effortlessly fending off multiple robots who are actively shooting at his with bullets. Neither Tails nor Knuckles have been shown to to able to do this. If you're still not convinced, look at Sonic Adventure 2 when Sonic and Shadow first encounter each other. Shadow uses chaos control, which, as we both know, is a technique that allows you to manipulate time and space, essentially allowing you to either teleport or stop time outright. Even in their first encounter, when Sonic had no idea what chaos control was, he was still able to see Shadow fly past him. This feat remains unrivaled, as no other character has been shown to perceive Chaos control in this manner. The fact that he was even able to see Shadow while he was using chaos control is a testament to Sonic's reaction speed. In contrast, in the first scene of Knuckles' story in SA1, Knuckles was caught off guard when Chaos did some sort of jumping attack. Mind you, chaos was standing right in front of him, and Knuckles had his guard up. He still didn't see it coming, or he did and wasn't able to react in time. Tails in Sonic Adventure crashed his plane and didn't think to jump off and use his flight ability to save himself. Sure, he's gotten more competent, but, if we're arguing reaction times, we don't have anything to go by that Tails' reacting time is on par with Sonic's. All of this talk about muscle memory is pure speculation. Hell, in that very cutscene where Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are falling, even Sonic barely has enough time to land on his feet. They went from standing on solid ground to immediately falling while being flipped on their heads. Anybody would've been disoriented by that. Even Sonic was visibly shocked. If Sonic barely had enough time to react, then there's no way Tails or Knuckles had enough time to react.
RE: Knuckles in Forces: It gets worse. Not only does his "Big Plan" turn out to be something he thought up in about five minutes, it gets everyone involved except Bulletproof the Self-Insert killed as soon as Whiny the Jackal lifts a single finger. And then the IDW comics made it even _worse,_ first with the prequels establishing that _Knuckles had advanced knowledge of Eggman's takeover,_ and instead of trying to stop it, he decided to _let it happen and then become the Resistance leader so he could be a hero._ They also retroactively established that really, Knuckles _wasn't_ the leader anyway. He made speeches and acted like the leader, sure, but he was a _figurehead,_ and all the real work was done by Amy. Because Ian's gonna include a Sally Acorn even if he's not allowed to actually use Sally. And then after all that, turns out he just left the Master Emerald exposed this whole time and now Metal Sonic is quite literally sitting on it. And it sucks, because Ian's actually written some really good Knuckles stories in Archie, both before and after the reboot, but now he's just towing the line.
I'm sure you might've already seen it, but please, PLEASE make a reaction video to the Frontiers Prologue animation if you haven't watched it yet! This was one of the first videos I watched from your channel, and seeing your wish for better characterization being fulfilled by Sonic Team is amazing!
In Sonic 06, there's also that scene in the last story section where Knuckles ran the wrong way before realizing that he was running toward a dead-end and turning around. Knuckles, it must be said. You.Are.An.Idiot! "Shut up!"
So, What are your thoughts on Knuckles and his character? Do you agree with my points made? Did I miss anything? Leave a comment below as I read EVERY single comment.
I also got asked to talk about Knuckles in the OVA and in Sonic X. For Sonic X, I plan on doing separate videos discussing each character in X, or one giant video talking about my thoughts on all the characters at once. As for the OVA, I thought he was pretty good there. He wasn't really a rival, but more of a friend. And it doesn't treat him like an idiot. He actually is helpful to both Sonic and Tails. I also plan to, at some point, discuss the OVA as a whole and really go in depth there.
Personally I feel as if guarding the master emerald is working against him, let me explain as long as he's the Guardian he can't really be a main character or important to the plot unless the master emerald is involved and we don't want him to be a bad guardian either. So what can they do with him?
I left a comment but I will a brief summary knuckles was at the end of heroes he was now a stowic hero who values and trust his friends has a playful relationship with rouge and might be falling in love and he’s finally happy doing his job hanging with friends and having a love life
@@thepjshow I couldn’t agree more with everything you said (even the topic of Shadow taking Knuckles’ place as Sonic’s friendly arch-rival even though in Sonic Boom, he was anything but. Not as a major flaw, but just as a fact)
I mostly know Knuckles from a handful of Archie comics, the IDW ones, and some cartoons-only more recently have I seen videos like this that give me more info on his character. But from my own experience with sonic, Knuckles is my favourite character, because I found him the most relatable. Being isolated and feeling a step behind everyone else, constantly feeling the weight of responsibility? That’s just adulting in a nutshell 🥲
The movie makes him look like a badass. I hope he stay that way.
Same. i hope he will stay like it
I'm so hyped for it
Finally
@@Folzysego Bruh are you an alt account for Just Some Guy Without A Mustache??? 😂😂
@@obiwankenobi1532 Lol
"Do I look like I need your power?"
And just like that, Knuckles can be taken seriously again.
yes!!
Exact
Yeah
Exactly!
I wonder what sonic looks like after that smash.
SEGA takes the characters biggest flaws and boost them up to 100
Sonic’s flaw: He’s cocky annoying sometimes but he knows when to get serious
New sonic: cocky annoying, and barley gets serious
Tails flaw: Sonic’s side kick, scared sometimes.
New tails: Needs sonic or he’s useless
Knuckles flaw: in some games he’s naive and gets tricked easily
New knuckles: LOL I’m dumb
This is so sadly true
They were always like this!!!
@@atre5763 in Knuckles' SA2 music which is all in his perspective he actually mentions Rouge being a double agent, it's a shame they don't throw stuff like that in for him anymore
"Flanderization" is the term for this.
@Mister MashupsYT Yes they were
Remember that knuckles is NOT dumb at all, he's been isolated all his life protecting the master emerald, how in the world would he know how social interaction works decades later?
Often times I wonder who's more ignorant: Knuckles or the people who don't bother to learn the difference between dumbassery and ignorance
You make a good point!
Just naive
for me he's more innocent than stupid, he has been isolated from contact with other being in years, i dont like whne fans compare gmaes version with boom version, with isnt bad in my opinion, but both are very diferent versions
I been saying that too
I remember when Knuckles was described in the manual as being "clever".
Heh, I remember that too... Ah, the good ol' days.
@@zimtak6418 well it makes sense considering his whole deal was everywhere you go, he had a button he could press to knock you into more danger.
I liked how in Triple Trouble Nack tried doing the same thing, only for it to blow up on him, showing him to WANT to be that kind of guy, but he doesnt quite know what hes doing.
He is a treasure hunter so that makes sense
Man ironic huh
Streetsmarts, not brainsmarts
I like the idea that Knuckles' internal monologue is a never ending rap.
Acceptable if it's NF.
@@amyleigh7624 nf is horrible
@@amyleigh7624 yuck, NF mid
Like mine if I let it keep going
@@amyleigh7624NF?
It's important to note that Knuckles _doesn't_ immediately believe Eggman in Sonic Adventure. He actually decides to go ask Sonic and get his side of the story, which he didn't do in 3K. It's only when he sees Sonic holding a green gem that Knuckles assumes to be a Master Emerald shard that he starts throwing punches. This is because Knuckles is very protective of the Master Emerald, and is unlikely to be diplomatic with someone that he now has absolute proof (or so he thinks) is after the Master Emerald. Also, he still hasn't had much social interaction, so diplomacy isn't his strong suit anyway.
But even if he believed Sonic was after the Master Emerald pieces, how does he know he isn't trying to help him restore it? How does he know Sonic won't hand them over to him as soon as he sees him? I mean... what else is Sonic going to do with the Master Emerald? Especially after he went out of his way to return it to him once before. And if he saw Sonic with what looked like a piece of it, he could've just asked him, "What are you doing with that Master Emerald piece?!" and then found out more easily that it wasn't.
@@JStryker47 He kind of does. He throws a few punches, and then demands Sonic hands over "all the Emeralds" he has. Sonic response? "I'd like to see you take them"
Sure, Knuckles could've asked nicer, or chosen his words better, but Sonic was just as hotheaded here
@@JStryker47 If Sonic was trying to help him restore it, he would have handed it over when Knuckles told him to. And again, Knuckles isn't diplomatic. He doesn't know how to ask nicely for something, especially when it's already his.
@@JStryker47 When you're hotheaded and angry that can cloud your judgment. He spent his entire life defending the emerald, ofcoarse he's gonna go on the offensive to protect it if it's in any real or perceived danger. Thats just his character, atleast it was until he was himbo-fied.
@@NinjaKingAce Sonic's reasonably defensive considering it's not the first time Knuckles attacked him to get the Chaos Emeralds. I wouldn't call him hotheaded at all.
Knuckles sees Sonic carrying a green gem and thinks Eggman was right about Sonic stealing the shards for himself after all.
Sonic gets attacked by Knuckles and gets told to "hand over the Emeralds" and thinks Knuckles is trying to steal the Chaos Emeralds again.
Both of their reactions to each other make perfect sense to me. Knuckles saw what he needed to see to believe what Eggman told him, and Sonic's thinking "oh not this s*** again"
We did. One year later but KNUCKLES IS A BADASS AGAIN. Look at Sonic Frontiers Prologue with Knuckles.
WE WON !!!! 🥳🥳
Victory! Knuckles is back.
And; well the whole game of Frontiers!😆
Frontiers is crap.
@@liamphibiathe characterisation in Frontiers is horrible. How does anyone think its good?
Knuckles is no joke. Unlike Sonic, he doesn't chuckle.
He'd rather flex his muscles
I know that is how the song goes but he laughs at Sonic EVERY TIME he is encountered in the original games
@@reesf743 he's hard as nails it ain't hard to tell, he breaks them down rather they are solid or frail"
I mean there is a whole meme about him tho
@che And he'd rather flex his muscles
Seems like Sonic 2 is gonna do Knuckles justice.
Yup
abso-fcking-lutely. that's not even mentioning idris elba is voicing knuckles.
He appeared first in sonic 3 if I'm correct?
/s
@@fusbhas3191 yes. but i think the guy meant the movie.
@@donnycorn3086 /s
Sadly it's gonna take the movie rendition of Knuckles to propel him back to the awesome status he once had.
Why is that sad?
@@dylanpaulette8804 because the games should be doing that as opposed to a movie...
The Sonic movie was garbage. So I doubt he'll regain any positive status with the next movie.
@@Brotherofthe4thCompany good for you? I guess. I'm glad you thought it was fun. I thought it was crap.
@@RandomBlackGamer oh shit RBG. I love your transformers comic vids
"Back off or you're gonna get hurt!" Literally any line that sounds serious from Knuckles makes us know he is not joking around. That's why I love this Echidna
I’m glad that they seem to be bringing him back to his original glory in the new movie. Or at least close
Well in the trailer he seems badass so yeah
@@boppitybippitybop1829 sonic movie is for kids. It needs better novel story
@@RicoLee27 I can name many "kid's" movies that are still enjoyed by adults. Would you like a list?
@@phoenixmarktwo I would! XD i wanna watch em
There can be kids movies that adults enjoy. A lot of kids movies can deal with serious stuff and have humor that all ages finds funny.
Idris Elba made me fall in love with Knuckles again. He’s not trying to be the comic relief in the movie, but unintentionally is because he’s so serious all the time and all about honor and being the best warrior. Sonic likes to do all those one-liner jokes and pop culture references, which works for his character. For instance, the Vin Diesel/ Rock beef joke he made had my whole theatre laughing. Also thank god Sonic had a cute redesign. Could you imagine how horrifying Knuckles, Tails and Shadow would’ve look?
He kinda reminds me of Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy. But then near the end he essentially tells Tails he'll get him back for being run over in such a jokey way. It's a great piece of character development not to mention I really want to see Knuckles and Tails rooms in the Wackowski home. Even if their staying in Sonic's room they must have their own space and beds.
oh my god i didnt even think about what tails and knuckles wouldve looked like had they not done the redesigns. i think that wouldve made these movies rated R from how horrifying they'd look
I like that they made him just naive about the world and still has much to learn instead of plain dumb. Can’t wait to see his development in sonic 3 lol.
Bold of you to assume the first movie would have been successful enough to warrant a sequel without the redesign.
Actually someone made an art for ugly Shadow and honestly i was wondering how Shadow would have looked good but Sonic didn't
And then the movie trailer is released and he's back to being a badass.
Deadass!!!
esperemos se mantenga asi
Same with mania in my book
I love him being a badass
No. He's still stupid.
In the new Sonic movie, I like how while they kept him kinda dumb, but he’s also a badass. It makes sense due to him not originally being from Earth and also being the last of his kind. This was my favorite portrayal of his character out of any
@@dianamorales2608 that’s what I meant, it makes sense that he isn’t very intelligent about Earth considering that, well, he’s never been there before
“Oh, they are stairs.”
Plus, Knuckles should be Sonic's toughest rival.
He was the ORIGINAL RIVAL
I would say metal sonic should be sonic original rival. Since he was first. And they both deal with speed
@@wolfenden9805 Well, Knuckles is Sonic's original ORGANIC rival then.
So he should stay relevant and able to match Sonic and Shadow.
@@bluewulv Knuckles is Piccolo basically.
@@chainsawblood1765 Which is really disrespectful to the guy
@@bluewulv Say what will about the Archie Comics but at least they did a good job at maintaining Sonic and Knux being equals (especially post-reboot) while treating the other rival characters with respect.
E.g: You'll never see Knux and Shadow going head to head and matching each other only to put aside their differences to beat a common enemy and later finding a new sense of respect to each other (partly thanks to having similar opinions towards Sonic) in the games.
Knuckles when they got the 2010 writers hired: "Oh no."
I feel like the Sonic Movie sequel will do some justice to his character. The first movie may not have been perfect, but I enjoyed it a lot so I think they will handle his character well. Knuckles deserves better than this.
Also Knuckles with the 2010s writers: I WILL PUNCH SONIC JUST LIKE HE PUNCHED ME FOR FORGETTING AMY ROSE’S DATE LIKE IN BLACK KNIGHT WHEN HE LIED TO HER THAT HE WAS KING ARTHUR, SHE WAS “A NICER VERSION OF HERSELF” THAT IS NIMUE AND THAT I WAS SIR GAWAIN!!!!!
Sonic (sounding just like Knuckles himself in the SX episode “Cracking Knuckles”): *ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!!*
Yeah I’m super hopeful for the movie’s version of him!
06 is the reason we have this.
When I think of Amy Rose at her worst (even for her before Sonic Boom) in Sonic Free Riders, I think of Knuckles at HIS worst in Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (and I thought he was at his worst in Lost World, the Ken Penders comics, ‘06 and Forces, but wow!).
Yeah, exceptionally dense! - Knuckles in Sonic Free Riders (m.th-cam.com/video/AhL4m3JrzQI/w-d-xo.html)
@@kieranstark7213 jesus dont remind of Ken's comics, that was legit a furry putting in their fanfiction into the sonic universe
“Your untrained “
“Unskilled”
“Unworthy”
Knuckles is back y’all
He's the best of both worlds , he's intimating , strong , but nieve and asks "why am I angry at the enemy ball?" When playing baseball
Sonic: you forgot one. Unstoppable
And it was right
Yes but with a mix of a little dumbness. Not too dumb like Boom but dumb like Drax.
@@lindsaysmith4881 yeah he’s not dumb, he’s naive and lacks social skills is all.
Sonic 2 may not be a perfect movie, but its portrayal of Knuckles makes me want to cry tears of joy. I'm praying that Sega takes notes from the movies for his characterization in future games
I just want better marketing from SEGA that is all.
18:55 “What? just because i’m a meathead doesn’t mean i’m not a feminist.” actually made me cackle a little, Boom Knuckles (tv series one) is great and i adore knuckles in general for every lil aspect of him. tho, they did him dirty for making him an absolute dumbass or a minor character in some games..
Edit: glad to see a lot of people agree that boom knuckles is nice :)
When Knuckles speaks real shit.
@@whoamitoherwaith433 EVERYONE’S FACES THOUGH LMFAO
The irony of he being a meathead and saying he isnt a feminist because of it.
@@johnx140 thats not what he meant.
@@johnx140 I have no idea what the irony of it is
I thought Knuckles was so cool as a kid. I would imitate his poses in the games and I think my family still has an embarrassing picture of one of those instances >.
I’m so happy I wasn’t the only one. Man, I was the weird kid who sat on the back of the bus reading game booklet. But I was more of a Shadow fangirl.
wasn't as dedicated to any..thing..really.
however had respect for how things were.
knuckles was indeed supposed to be super cool.
Like, I felt he was supposed to have a cool demeanor. be strong and maybe a bit ambiguous on how he gets things done, maybe
Yeah..
This
At least he looks cool in the new sonic movie
Do you feel like the Sonic 2 movie has vindicated Knuckles, made you feel good about the character again? I feel like this video is about to get another couple hundred thousand views
Oh yeah. I love what they did with his character in the film. It may actually be my favourite incarnation of the character but we will have to see what they do with the character from here on out.
@@thepjshow Especially since before Sonic the Hedgehog 3 comes out he is going to be carrying his own series.
@@thepjshow I’m so hyped for sonic 3 to see him not as the antagonist. I want to see him happy but still his cool self
Definitely over 1 mil views now
He still becomes dumb in the end of movie
Knuckles needs his own solo game as treasure hunter
That would be interesting
Well, we have his on show now
Or we could get him just fighting Eggman like the first Sonic game.
Making Knuckles the idiot on the receiving end of all the slapstick is redundant. That's the role they put Team Chaotix into when they came back for Heroes, and honestly their Three Stooges type shenanigans are a lot more entertaining than anything with Dumb Knuckles.
Ironically, they literally just don't use Team Chaotix for comedy anymore. The last time we really got anything funny from them was Vector's appearance in Free Riders.(And he basically stole the show in that game anyhow. Or rather saved the show, considering how lazy that plot actually was)
@@lpfan4491 "FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM!!!!"
Man, this feels like exactly what happened with Piccolo in Dragon Ball. He was introduced and was a fantastic rival to Goku and had an amazing character ark of becoming allies with him, then a new rival was introduced in Vegeta, causing Piccolo to be tossed to the side as a plot dump character and nothing more.
At least he wasn't a bumbling idiot. And was kind of wholesome as gohans mentor in dbz and a babysitter for pan in dbs.
@@dg4545 also gohan was regaining his strength offscreen because he was training with piccolo
@@ashadeofblue6815 exactly. They didn't totally do piccolo dirty.
They did tien super dirty he was op in dragon ball
you’re wrong about that, Piccolo fought Android 17 after Vegeta got his ass handed to him in Super Saiyan form against Android 18, in Buu’s Saga he was dead. In Super, he showed up on both tournaments of power. Just bc he isn’t as strong doesn’t mean they did him dirty, he is still a recurring character and very important
Knuckles was a misunderstood character. Back in the 90s, people thought Knuckles was pure evil. He put in work into making Sonic look like a joke, but when it was revealed that he wasn't actually a bad person, it was such a big deal. It really showed how perspective really changes our view. But nowadays, when people play Sonic 3 & Knuckles for the first time, people just laugh at how gullible he is.
Sonic Adventure gave us his perspective this time, which at least added more depth to his character (even if it wasn't written the best way), but in Sonic Advance 2, and in the OK KO special, this gullible trait is exaggerated for stupid flanderized humor, and nothing else. The whole argument that "Knuckles isn't dumb, he's just gullible" just doesn't work anymore, because the way he's tricked is just done in the way that makes him look like an idiot.
To me, his character became the punching bag since Sonic X. It's not a bad portrayal, because he does have some serious moments and a reason why he's not guarding the Master Emerald, but a lot of times, he was there to make Sonic look good in comparison. Remember in Sonic 3, he put in effort to make Sonic look bad? But now, everyone makes him look like a joke. He's more gullible, hotheaded, and is obsessed with beating Sonic. Knuckles' top priority is to guard the Master Emerald. His rivalry with Sonic was more secondary to his character. But without the Master Emerald, it seems like that's the only thing he cares about in games like Sonic Generations and Lost World. Even Shadow in the IDW comics is falling into this flanderization.
Sonic Forces put him in the right direction but fails due to bad writing. It shows that Sega understood that fans missed the more serious Knuckles. Knuckles is such an important and complex character, and I'm sad to see him being downgraded as the joke sidekick.
User name checks out
While Knuckles' portrayal in Forces wasn't as bad as Generations and Lost World, still far from essential, I mean look at the Operation Big Wave mission, he literally though that strategy in one minute and a half, and most soldiers were seriously hurt or died in that mission
@@ayrtonjoga Yeah, I agree. It was awesome that he was chosen as the leader of the resistance, but that scene was definitely a little off. Although, I do think people exaggerate it, it was written in a way that seems like Knuckles put in more effort into the name than the actual plan. Knuckles personality wasn’t the best either, as he seems to put on this general like attitude. One moment he looks like he tries so hard to look serious, but then the next he’s like “did you guys see how cool I am?!” Like he is trying too hard to get his fans back.
@@FireRising86 Lol
😆😆😆😆😆
The movie Knuckles seems like a good character development, I hope it influences the game character, since he wasn't a complete fool in it, but still has that awkwardness because of his social isolation.
Knuckles went from being a badass and a threat
To a dumbass
And now back to a badass and a threat
Same goes for tails
Basically everything just came in full circle with the new sonic movie
Tails was never a badass or dumb.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166
But he did go from being a well-developed character to little more than a hanger-on over the years.
Same happens in mania.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Sonic Adventure:
its just sonic bro
This guy must be so happy about the Sonic 2 trailer making knuckles a badass
Oh, you have no idea. I love what they've done with Knuckles in the movie. You can get a clearer idea of this from my reaction and analysis of the trailer.
Then when they become friends he’s cute now 😭
"Only male hedgehogs can have a super form."
All playable characters from Sonic Mania Plus other than Sonic: Are we a joke to you?
@Cuphead with a Glock then what's the excuse for Burning Blaze when she gets all the Sol Emeralds?
Close enough to a super form since it was essentially the same concept I'd say.
@@DarkFrozenDepths I guess that as Blaze is from a parallel universe, the rule in that universe is "Only female cats can have a super form."
I recall in the OVA Knuckles was an explorer and a treasure hunter, he wasn’t stuck guarding the emerald 24/7. He also wasn’t a joke at that point, he acted on his own but was a team player who cared about the others. I think that all happened after Sonic CD, for sure before Sonic Adventure.
Honestly, Sonic 2 is a redemption for Knuckles.
If he wasn’t the guardian of the master emerald then idk, he will probably be useless by sonic 3 though as shadow pulls up
@@SeniorSatoru Honestly, I'm thinking that maybe like him realising what Robotnik was gonna do with the Master Emerald might inspire him to be the honorary guardian and ensure no one like Robotnik will steal it for their own misdeeds.
Who knows that maybe Knuckles might get that role in the spin-off (provided that it isn't a prequel and more of an intermission between Sonic 2 and 3).
(Edit: I was right)
base of the ball
yes
Bro it’s a redemption for the freaking sonic the hedgehog franchise as a whole
Knuckles is becoming one of my favorite characters honestly, he should be in more games
2:10-2:52 And that’s why he’s so underrated, even by Sega themselves to the point where they decided to bring his negative representation of what he’s originally lied to be like in the mid 1990s - early 2000s (and sometimes after like in Sonic Mania and Ian Flynn comics)
.
@@ccc-pl5pb Hello Nuggets.
Hes appears in more games than fuckin shadow dude.
Yes
Honestly, Sega should take down notes from the new Sonic movie about Knuckles' character because fans definitely want Knuckles to be taken seriously and look more like a badass character.
He was so serious in the movie(not complaining).
Sooo is anyone gonna say that the new Sonic movie actually did the plot of the sonic 3 game as he works with eggman, gets betrayed, teams up with sonic, becomes friends.
@@bruhmodeactive3211 Kind of the point but most of the original story was changed. I think the Sonic Adventure 2 story would work really well.
@@bakedbeans5494 so I'm the only one that thought no one thought of it, thanks now I feel like an idiot
@@bruhmodeactive3211 We all knew from the trailer.
Pretty much EVERY character was simplified down into base stereotypes over time... Shadow became edgy, Knuckles became a meathead, Tails became the nerdy sidekick, Amy regressed to her role as "the girl" character who likes Sonic, Eggman became the comedic Saturday morning cartoon villain, and Sonic only makes snarky quips that aren't even good jokes.
Isn't that starting to change, though?
"Only Male Hedgehogs Can Use Super Forms"
They're borderline stopping themselves from being creative. Like, why can't characters like Knuckles and Espio use that kind of power? It would allow for a lot more potential to be unshackled from their current positions as characters, and not only that, given that Knuckles' tribe have strong connections to the Master Emerald, I think it's complete bullshit that he can't use its power to go super more often. Sega honestly need to get their act together and start treating him with respect, honestly even Penders treated him better, and everyone hates him. Lol
It still hurts that the only time a non-hedgehog went super in modern times was when Tails and Knux went super in Heroes...and it sucked nuts!(Like "actual tragedy"-levels of suck. The weird generic super shields look so stupidly out of place when Sonic can keep his previous super-design.)
dude, if they wanna be lazy *just make them yellow*
It’s sad that Amy and the other, Sonic girls can’t have a super form. 😞
@@fangirldreamer748 Blaze has one. But they barely use it anymore. Personally, I don't think Amy and Rouge really need one given how good they are at fighting. But I don't see why Knuckles can't retain his. It's sad and stupid Sega's not willing to change up the formula anymore, especially when they've been open to it in the past, and it's all due to their stupid mindset of dropping something that fails, and trying something else, whilst pushing the previous idea under the rug permanently.
Like, no... refine your ideas, don't make a game for the sole purpose of throwing a hissy fit when people make fun of it, or give it a bad review.
And what about blaze
"Oh but that wasnt a super form"
Man doesnt matter what it was called it worked exactely like super sonic
And what on blaze's dimension only female cats can go super?
That restriction is so dumb
Just saw Sonic 2 in theaters, and I can say with confidence that Knuckles’ character has been restored to what it’s supposed to have been. I’m so impressed with the movie crew, just wish Halo’s producers would’ve done the same with their show
I didn't play the old games but I found Knuckles slightly annoying in the movie, he was funny (especially at the end, I liked the way he takes everything literaly) but his rambling about pride looked like Vegeta or Sonic Boom Shadow
@@kafei-creme "tails what does the scouter say about his power level"
"IT'S OVER 9,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
@@kafei-creme I can understand why it'd be annoying, but it was one of his most prominent character traits early on. It's also one of the main reasons him and Sonic clash later on despite being on good terms. Knuckles' emphasis on his own personal code of honor and pride in his status as being the last Echidna and guardian of the Master Emerald is what often leads to him duking it out with Sonic from time to time even after they became friends.
Of course that typically only lasts till they introduce Shadow and he gets relegated to a background character instead of being Sonic's rival. Hopefully that's not something that happens with the movies, but the writers have done a great job so far giving me hope.
@@DoctorOaks An arc I thought about for STH3 was Knuckles having to make a choice between the emerald and Sonic. He picks the emerald and then Sonic and Tails feel betrayed and then the rest of the movie is devoted to Knuckles getting to terms with his friends again.
I came up with this in 40 seconds, I know it's a terrible arc.
@@TheSpacePlaceYT honestly I'm imagining him meeting movie Rouge and I'm laughing cause he's way more naive and oblivious in the movies.
*"Does it look like I need your power"*
Character development went from devolving to an idiot to developing to a *massive* threat... nice
All it took was one line to restore him
considering they changed how sonic looked in the first movie due to internet backlash it's clear the movie crew paid attention to the fandom. I have a sneaking suspicion this video helped get knuckles back in the second movie.
this is how I feel about Wario. he went from greedy Bizarro-Mario to living fart joke.
He was always greedy till the wii games and smash brawl,I wonder why did they change his character
@@darealepic smash brawl? Dude was a whole villain in brawl it still shows him being a ass imo
Wario was doing great during the Wario Land Games, it was the Wario Ware series that turned him into a joke.
@@microsoftsamreloaded3558 yup
@@darealepic because Sakurai has somewhat of dislike for platformer games that he himself didn't make. so rather than taking from warioland, he based all of Wario's attacks of speculation from warioware. he did briefly fart at the end of one of the micro games but it was never this giant explosion that it became in smash.
I feel so bad for knuckles, honestly. He's literally so adorable and he's been watching that emerald for years, YEARS. He needs a break, ever since eggman lied to knuckles, knuckles isn't dumb or anything, he just thought eggman wasn't lying because he HAS to watch the Emerald-- in fact, I heard that if he doesn't watch the emerald.
his island will fall, I don't know why and the meaning behind this island and this emerald, but I feel like he should just take a break and hang out with some people, live an knuckles life lmao, but maybe sonic, tails, knuckles himself maybe got along because he probably seen maybe that sonic isn't that one to take an emerald NOR tails himself too.
Cause if you see throughout these years they've always been together, like childhood friends, maybe like rivals to friends.
Great theory, my guy... Great theory
The reason the island stays afloat is because of the master emerald. Every time the emerald was removed, the island fell into the ocean.
@@Iridiumcosmos yea that happens in a lot of comics
@@toybonnie8108 thank you LMAO
It’s not the Knuckles ISN’T slightly gullible or hotheaded, it’s that he’s more than JUST those character traits. If you crank his trusting nature to the extreme and just make him an idiot, you’re losing the part of his characterization that is a disciplined and respected fighter, and the same goes for if you just make him a strong warrior with a short temper and forget that he can also be laid-back. He isn’t just impulsive, or trusting, or any one of his other character traits, he is all of those things and more! He can be a rival to Sonic and still be his friend, he can be very serious about his duty to the Emerald and still be generally chill, and he can be overly trusting in the good nature of others while still being clever. None of these traits are contradictory!
exactly! like what you said about how they just keep emphasising some of his traits and then neglecting others despite them all being important parts of his personality, they ripped away the balance of his personality for cheap comedy and it's honestly so frustrating because he used to be so cool and well written :((
When it comes to rivals for Sonic, I usually think of 3: Knuckles, Shadow, and Metal Sonic. I also feel like they reflect Sonic in different ways.
Watch PJSHOW's analysis on the other two. You'll understand.
Just like how Sonic is most known for his speed, Knuckles is most known for his Strength and there's also their skin color, blue for Sonic and red for Knuckles, as they're primary colors along with yellow (like Tails). He's also more introverted, serious and responsible when compared to Sonic who's more extroverted, lighthearted and carefree, but he does become more like a mix between personalities overtime. What I think makes Knuckles unique is because he feels like a natural rival to Sonic instead of being created by scientists, he is an echidna unlike Shadow and Metal Sonic just like how hedgehogs and echidnas are similar but different just like Sonic and Knuckles and he feels like a good hearted rival. I would say he feels like a friend/rival to Sonic. They start off with a rivalry, but overtime, they become friends while still keeping their rivalry.
He is the perfect contrast to Sonic.
That's just my opinion.
It honestly feels as if the writers during the 2010s never even knew about his title as the guardian of the Master Emerald. I can't recall one time where Knuckles even mentioned the Master Emerald or Angel Island.
Because the 2010 writers sucked and destroyed the character development that every character made.
He actually uses the Master Emerald for his All-Star Move, temporarily before sending it back BUT the first is much more accurate, he only summons it for a moment then sends it back while the second has it with him the entire time the All Star is active which would actually make Angel Island fall, a few seconds gone wouldn't really be devastating since putting the Emerald back will just have it continously float up and it has infinite energy so there's no need to worry about this process ending up not working sometime in the future if it is abused.
The last time the Master Emerald/Angel Island was explicitly shown in the Modern 3D/Main-series era was in a canon tie-in Forces prequel comic (not connected to IDW tho) where he leaves the M.E unguarded and out in the open to join Silver in the resistance... :/
Because they don't know anything about franchise, they get info from reading Wikipedia
@@sylasexd you wish they that competent.
Something I’m really glad that they did in Sonic Movie 2 is not making movie knuckles the guardian of the master emerald, so they don’t have to constantly come up with an excuse for him to be around since he’s not tied to angel island anymore because of it.
Not to mention, movie knuckles as a whole is my favorite interpretation of knuckles by far, with them making him more of a “Smart and skilled warrior, but naive and lacks social skills” similar to Drax instead of a “meatheaded moron” which he’s been characterized as for god knows how long now, and im glad that a new generation will know knuckles as the former instead of “sonic’s stupid friend”
"Sexy and smooth"
"Out for my jewls"
"Feeling her in mysterious ways"
OK HOLD ON THERE SEGA THAT'S A LITTLE TOO SPICY FOR A KIDS GAME
Not spicy enough
Lmao that and the "I have to shave it" lyrics from Amy's song in SA1 got me kinda flustered ngl
Sup bro
Timestamp?
@@Jmcwow275 8:32
Damn, the investigation for this video, crazy.
Loved how you examined Knuckles. Sincerely didn't know too much about the character, only really saw him portrayed in Sonic Boom (love that series btw).
Incredible video!!
Glad you enjoyed it :)
The upcoming Sonic film sequel seems to be giving Knuckles his due respect... _hopefully_ ! It would be especially cool if the film uses some version of his Sonic Adventure theme tune during the film(or afterwards too)!
Even if they make him serious and well-made, i hope just ONE "do u no da wae" will be introduced at some point AT LEAST ONCE, even just the sentence or smth even if he says it in a serious way. Memes are life, and this is my favourite character partly for that but mostly because i thought he was cool when i played the first games.
@@SharpieTXS Seems highly likely to happen, I mean they _did_ include a "Sanic" reference in the first film.
@@SharpieTXS the consequences of such an occurrence would be catastrophic for the human race
Pumpkin hill
@Cory Hale he’s not giant 🤨 he’s literally the same height as sonic just a little more muscle-y
Man I really hope the movie does him Justice. This video was great and I’m glad hat you pointed out what many people including myself were thinking
Me too
@@Folzysego me too
@ʞɔnɟ I changed to 667 muhaha 🥶
I never really saw Knuckles as Sonics “rival” since he was talked into being his enemy. Once he learned that Sonic and gang were on his side, he became friends. Can’t forget the guy was on a floating island alone his whole life, he had some social issues, but over time he learned how to really be a friend. I would akin him more to Picolo than Vegeta in the sense of being an enemy turned friend, whereas Shadow may be friendly with Sonic but he will always try to prove he is the “ultimate life form” thus making him Sonic real rival.
Pretty cut and dry comparison.
He was more of an antagonist until the truth was revealed.
I like this take
But Shadow said Sonic was the ultimate life form
You got your wish with Frontiers! They're bringing back Knuckles's original story arc with the Frontiers Prologue: Divergence short.
Here's how I would write his character: he's well versed in Ancient civilizations and even gems, understanding more about the Emeralds than. However, due to his isolated upbringing, he's not too smart when it comes to social or modern affairs. He wants to see the good in other people, but his own wariness that borders on paranoia makes that difficult, which leads people to branding him a Knucklehead, pun entirely intended.
I love the idea of Knuckles having a humourous side, and I love the idea of being shown how he slowly begins to open up. It was really weird to see how in the games knuckles didn't really say a word about the master emerald. Despite that being one of the most important things in Knuckles life. I do really miss that team sonic dynamic, and it sucks that he was pushed so far in the back. As if he wasn't part of that team at all. But I think Knuckles being a bit socially awkward makes sense. Specially since he was isolated so long. I would've love to see them play more with that concept. Maybe like, how sonic and tails help him get used to socializing more, and learning how to take a breather. But then maybe it can be shown just how much he holds dear his role of protecting the emerald. How that can clash with hanging out with sonic and tails all the time.
Honestly, I disagree with Knuckles even considering being in a team at all. Before Heroes, he was never really a part of the team, he's doing his own thing until he happens to run into Sonic and decides to help out while he's doing his own thing. He can definitely become more trusting and sociable, but he's never going to even consider going on your adventure because he's always busy with his, compared to, say, Tails always helping Sonic unconditionally.
Knuckles is a character I hold deep to me as someone I relate to and it's sad how his character has been butchered in official games like this. I'd really like to play as him again with more rap songs giving a further inside of his character, showing his doubts and feelings of the story and each stage he's in. He may not be Sonic's rival anymore, but he has his own purpose Shadow doesn't have.
The problem is that Sega believes that people hate the playable characters in Sonic Adventure 2 outside of Sonic. So Sega won't let Knuckles be playable and if Knuckles can't be playable Sega doesn't see a use for knuckles anymore other than being stupid.
Movie knuckles was a FANTASTIC step in the right direction. Instead of making him straight up dumb, they made him brave warrior who just doesn’t understand earth customs. So they made him a brave warrior while still making him kinda have the same hotheaded personality he has in newer games.
The movie saved Knuckles’ character and I hope they don’t make shadow completely overSHADOW him.
I think it comes down to the master emerald.
When it is "a thing", then the only way to get him to participate in the Story, is to have it shattered, stolen or threatened (again!). When it is there, it dominates his story and actions.
They cut it out for Heroes, so he could be part of the story. But that also meant a lot if his traits no longer made sense and had no basis.
my main headcanon for the Master Emerald's disappearance is that Knuckles decided to hide it in some underground vault on Angel Island and just leave it there and that's why it's basically no longer relevant
@@Wildcard_Ninja Im pretty sure that is a concept explored in one of the comics, but in the recent ones I like the concept that Angel Island could serve as their final refuge to his allies like Kami's lookout in Dragon Ball (which im pretty sure is its direct inspiration)
They could easily just have the master emerald be stolen by metal sonic and Knuckles got jumped and overwhelmed by him. The master emerald could play a role by being the reason Metal sonic is able to construct metal madness. It's so simple.
I'm so glad the second sonic movie is going to bring back cool knuckles, I've been *really* tired of comedy relief knuckles for a while now
"do I look like I need your power?" already tells me he'll be portrayed better than he's been portrayed in years, and hopefully he appears better in the games too
I think what makes it worse is that we already have a handful of "himbos" in sonic. Storm, Vector, hell even Big could be considered a himbo. Knuckles now kinda feels like what Big used to be in the SA games.
I like how Sonic X gives Rouge a bigger motive for going after the Master Emerald as it was part of her cover to fool Eggman. I wish they would take notes from the successful Adventure titles, Heroes, and the gba games and create a game that gives the characters back the growth and traits that we grew to love.
Knuckles was originally Sonic’s rival but after shadow (Vegeta the hedgehog basically) showed up they didn’t know what to do with knuckles so they just cut him off with any of the action and made Shadow part of the spotlight
So, could Knuckles be considered the Piccolo of Sonic the Hedgehog? Piccolo started off as Goku's rival too, then he got shafted for the Saiyans.
@@johnking9943 not exactly cause Knuckles and Piccolo have nothing in common besides the whole rivalry with the main character but then again that could be said for many other characters
@@johnking9943 and a lot of characters have been pushed back from important to a joke so can’t exactly put it as copies from each other but if you want to think Piccolo and Knuckles are similar then go ahead it’s very true
Lets all remember that Knuckles will be in the movie sequel and the writers of the movie love Knuckles, so there could be hope for him, just in a different media.
And then in 2024, we might as well get Sonic 3 & Shadow, starring Zachary Levi as, well, Shadow the Hedgehog
They probably """love""" stupid Knuckles from the new games bro. They butchered Sonic's character in the first movie, so I have no idea why people would think they care about doing the characters justice or have the capacity to do it right. But I guess literally no one cares that they got Sonic absolutely wrong in the movie though lol because literally no one knows what Sonic's personality should be like, so I guess everything I'm saying is pointless. Watch the movie make Knuckles the opposite of what he should be and everyone will still praise it infinitely, just like the first one.
@@Squishito I mean, new sonic just doesn’t have a personality, they had to make him enjoyable to watch
@@Msp0309 Or you know... They could base it off Sonic when he used to have a personality before the 2010s, which was quite unique, interesting, and enjoyable. But that doesn't _sell_ as well to normie western film audiences apparently my dude. You know what _does_ sell? An awkward, unsure of himself, wide eyed, young, Redditor meme ass, Fortnite dancing, "relatable" Sonic that could be replaced with any character and it would fit just as well. _Oh and give him a pathetically unfitting "baby" version too for cute marketing plushies!!!_ It was all for safe, copy paste marketing, not because it would improve anything. They don't give a shit about the series or it's fans. Just look at that original design, those people unironically thought that would be okay before showing it. They then ran their animation company or whatever bankrupt by caving to complaints and utilizing the situation for positive press, even though the whole mess was one _they_ created in the first place. And it totally worked. People loved their shitty, passionless film. I'm gonna go off here, there is nothing Sonic about that movie. You could replace the "Sonic" branding stuff as Smurfs or some shit and it would be the same thing. It's a formula, and their changes accommodated to that money making formula only. "Realistic cartoon CG thing in da real world with white actor man sidekick and wacky hi-jinks while making soon to be dated modern pop culture references while playing pop songs" is a thing they've done to death time and time again. But because they slapped Sonic on the tin and caved (at their workers expense) when Twitter yelled at them suddenly it's fucking amazing. Blows my fucking mind. Not a hint of passion or care whatsoever.
@@Squishito Do you really think they were gonna put Sonic's personality from Unleashed or Black Knight despite him being a literal kid in the movie? Lol
Especially in a movie marketed to non sonic fans, still there's a ton of easter eggs for the fans, so it's not like they "don't give a sh!t", they just tried to make an enjoyable movie to everyone, not groundbreaking, not innovative, just enjoyable
As a Blaze fan it makes me glad she's underutilized, if this is how Sega allows one the oldest, quintessential Sonic characters to be treated as well as perceived.
Would’ve made more sense if Tails made him a security camera at the island so he can visit them more, and knuckles would mention it in ‘06. And to keep Knuckles as Sonic’s rival Shadow should have visited him to train with him which would explain how he remains strong while guarding the emerald.
“They don’t make him out to be a bumbling idiot. That’s Storm’s job” that is exactly right
I hate how overlooked is the fact that Knuckles is supposed to be as strong as Sonic is fast. That's hella strong.
I think it's even mentioned in a manual or something
Looks like the newest Sonic movie might pleasantly surprise you
So archie sonic is as fast as archie knuckles is strong?
I'm astonished you didn't mention the absolute lowest low of Knuckles' characterization, and perhaps the Sonic series' writing in general: Operation Big Wave.
Knuckles: "I thought up this plan in about a minute and a half."
(about a minute and a half later)
Amy: "80% of our forces have been wiped out!"
Knuckles being an idiot may have been somewhat amusing before, but it is officially no longer funny now that his stupidity has actually gotten a ton of people KILLED.
_Ah, yes, a Sonic Forces reference._
idk about you but that series of lines just sound hilarious
_I kinda wanna try and convince my parents to let me buy Sonic Forces off of Steam, which I have on the P.C. that my family shares. :P_
Knuckles lead hundreds and thousands of people to their deaths.
Also the only hope for everyone on the Resistance was a rookie. Knuckles is a terrible commander.
Knuckles in 1994: Brave warrior who can be naive and gullible
Knuckles in 2017-: Homer Simpson
I remember watching this show called Sonic Underground as a kid and I've gotta say while it's from what I can tell just another sort of spinoff sorta show, it's writing was done really really well with all of its characters, especially knuckles. When I think back to that show I recall knuckles in angel Island and the friendship he had with sonic and his siblings. probably one of the most striking things was the way the writers incorporated the struggle between going to help his friends in trouble and sticking to his duty and the various ways they did so. Id say if you haven't watched it, for a kids show it was pretty damn good. It really for me at least showed the struggle he had and the hard-line decisions that he had to make sometimes
Yeah, I remember Knuckles being the highlight of that show
i remember watching that when i was little but i dont remember knuckles being in it, i probaly didnt get that far in the show
I really wished they continued thebshow I feel it had so much potential but they stopped.
"this show called Sonic Underground" yeah dude I'm sure the people in the comments of a Sonic lore video have never heard of Sonic Underground before
Sonic SatAM was the best though.
Looks like the movie's gonna bring him back to his roots. I gotta say, I didn't expect him to sound like that after all this time. Ben Schwartz was a great Sonic, being an energetic goof. Colleen Somethingoranother (the surname is too long for me to remember, sorry) is a nice pick for Tails, being a young yet determined partner. And Ides Elba, Heimdal himself, is so damn badass sounding! Granted, it's pretty much inevitable that Jim Carey is going to frame Sonic for endangering the Master Emerald, but I'm sure he'll have his reasons for falling for it.
Imagine saying imagine in 2021 😂😂😂😂😂😂 go fidge et your spinnner 😂😂😂😭😭😭😭
@@theoverjoyedkid2632 Lmaoooo go back to Fortnite, carpet cringe
*Villard
@@holyroman6541 im joking chill
@@theoverjoyedkid2632 I was joking too dw
I'd argue that Sonic Chronicles was the last game that had Knuckles' character left intact while also exploring Echidna lore with the Nocturnus Clan (although, it's been a while since I last played that game and am aware that this game harbors conflicting opinions).
Yeah that's understandable but I have heard talk of a team remaking a fanmade remake of Sonics chronicles it's called Sonic Chronicles Reimagined.
That was one of my favorite DS games.
That game had so much potential with the lore. It set the groundwork for so much of Knuckles history and to expand on his story. I'm sad we never got a sequel
@@Realdeal958 Honestly, I liked Chronicles and know there are some flaws with the game that hold it back. A sequel could have fixed/improved upon everything that was set up. But because of one individual...#FucKenPenders
@@mastervidxad5883 For real makes me upset whenever I think about it. It was definitely a great set up that unfortunately can't go anywhere now.
After seeing the Frontiers preview, I do anticipate Knuckles' core character being redeemed. Not holding my breath, but I can still hope.
The line "Do I look like I need your power" instant respect and that line gave me chills!
Imagine how I feel as someone who grew up on the Archie comics. Knuckles was legitimately the strongest and most intelligent character in the series. Naive? yes, and for the same reason. Also, hyper-knuckles.
I feel like the Sonic Boom show is my only exception to a lot character issues because the show knows its dumb and taking these characters to extreme personalities. It's very self aware so I can enjoy the chaos that happens in the show.
Honestly in the sonic 2 movie I wasn’t even rooting for sonic, I was rooting for knuckles. The movie made him so badass imo and way more serious then how Sega had made him.
I personally think a lot of SEGA's nonsensical characterization choices in this series can actually be traced back to Sonic X. Knuckles wasn't actually dumb in that series, but the rest of the characters generally acted like he was. This reaction from others, and his hotheadedness were his primary traits in that show.
This, I believe, is also why Amy was usually typecast as a violent stalker in the 2000's games. Because they were both written to facilitate cliché Japanese comedy routines, even though the games never did anything funny with either of them.
Instead of just accepting Sonic X as a spin off like the older extraneous media, SEGA bent the game world to better fit its storyline. This is also why they put the Sonic X voice cast into the games, and why we have the whole 2 worlds thing nowadays. But they've never fully committed to it because they're also chasing Nintendo's success with minimalist storytelling.
God, it's frustrating.
Couldn’t agree more. It boggles my mind that more people don’t see how Sonic X is where Knuckles’ personality and writing started taking a turn for the worst.
Most of us were kids or teens when the show came out, so we didn't really analyze its choices. And the ones who did get critical of it mostly just bashed Chris Thorndyke for being a spoiled wet blanket.
It takes time & perspective to look back and see the patterns of influence throughout the franchise.
Don't get me wrong; I like Sonic X and have no real objection to Knuckles's characterization there. But in hindsight, it clearly affected the way SEGA wrote him in the games, leading to the semi-gradual dumbing down of his character. Boom Knuckles was the logical endpoint of that direction.
Forces Knuckles, though, makes no sense. Like... Him stepping up to fill the gap while Sonic is under lockdown makes sense, but being the tactical leader of the resistance is just strange after so many years of him being treated like a moron.
Nowadays, it seems like he isn't that dumb anymore, but SEGA doesn't know what he is, so he's just there. Like, you could swap him out with a generic NPC and nothing would change.
@@ShelbyAQD Nah... Forces Knux is arguably worst because he left the Master Emerald unguarded and out in the open on Angel Island in the canon tie-in Forces prequel comics and he got countless resistance members killed in operation Big-Wave yet felt zero regrets about it.
Sonic characters don't emote anymore. Emotions aren't fun and cool, man. XD
Regardless, he's been leaving the Master Emerald unguarded since Sonic Heroes. I don't think it's even been mentioned in-game since Sonic Battle, aside from the rather Knuckles-centric Sonic Chronicles.
I honestly never had a problem with Knuckles willingly shattering the Master Emerald in order to stop Eggman from obtaining it. It shows that Knuckles has this willingness to do whatever it takes to stop it from falling into the wrong hands.
Plus, if it just broke accidentally, you know that everyone nowadays would look back on that scene and go "UH OH, HE LET THE MASTER EMERALD GET BROKEN AGAIN! HERPY DERP, ISN'T HE A MORON?" God, I hate that attitude towards this character!
Me, too. Anyone who thinks Knuckles is stupid are the real idiots and can go stuff it. They obviously don’t know his character nor do they bother to.
The thing I despise most about storytelling in general is when a writer successfully makes a good story; one with relatable complex characters, memorable environments and world concepts… and then it's sequel(s) gets butchered horribly by different writers that knew nothing about the original writer's intentions whatsoever! It's a problem that I see a lot in movies and certain video games, but the Sonic Team franchise as a whole just takes the cake with this sort of stuff. It's depressing. :(
OMG Thank you for drawing attention to this! He's my favorite and I feel the exact same way! Even regarding Sonic Boom, I wanted to be mad but he was hilarious 😂
*_Well this has aged quite interestingly_*
ISOYA?? I THOUGHT YOU WERE ONLY IN ML VIDEOS
I can't wait until you get around to talking about E-123 Omega and how the new writers just dropped his narrative potential completely.
Will Do
Also how he serves no purpose especially Forces and the Omega in Episode Shadow was not the real Omega, it's truly disrespectful and he deserves better.
@@artistanthony1007 I agree, justice for our beloved murder bot!
@@kingx1024 Honestly justice for everyone, they've been continuing the idea of only Sonic facing the final bosses since Unleashed and how nobody else can do anything, seriously remember when it was Shadow who saved the world in his game eventually being accepted by everyone including GUN? Well since the start of the Meta Era, that game has never existed and all that development since Last Story of his game has been retconned.
ArtistAnthony ya man, it’s sad how so many characters have lost any significance so Sonic and Classic Sonic can continuously get the spotlight. Omega/Rouge last story importance was in 06 and that was retconned by itself. Team Chaotix last story importance was in Shadow. Just to name a few, however I don’t know what they should do to fix this problem. Too many characters to make playable at this point.
I honestly think the new movie did him justice. It did a great job of not only making him serious and powerful, but also using his social ineptitude as his comic relief/dumbassery trait. Which, is honestly the best way to mesh the two Stereotypical types of knuckles.
"Knuckles used to be so cool, but now he's just pointless comic relief"
Sonic Movie 2: "Your saviour is here!"
I mean I've always hated how he doesn't have a super form anymore. He's the guardian of the most important emerald of all time, it doesn't make sense that he doesn't have a super form anymore.
I still feel like he does but they just can't be bothered to show it.
The whole "Haha Eggman keeps tricking him lol" point has always rubbed me the wrong way. Like bruh, Eggman has tricked Sonic just as many times if not more
It looks like Knuckles is slowly returning to his former glory in the Sonic the Hedgehog 2 movie where, near the end of the trailer, Knuckles is seen grabbing Sonic while in his supercharged ball form and punching him to the ground weakening Sonic. That’s the Knuckles we all know and love.
EDIT: I was right. Knuckles is great in the movie, the balance between our preferred Knuckles and the more humorous version seen in Sonic Boom is greatly handled.
yeah i’m so hyped for the movie that knuckles finally doesn’t look stupid and dumb he’s actually badass again
At 20:39 it reminds me how in SpongeBob Patrick had a funny act in the first 4 seasons but in later seasons he is made a meat head against Steven Hilinburg's old look at Patrick.
I'd also like to add that in S3&K, there was a mural of Eggman v. Sonic, and Eggman was presenting himself as the hero of the prophesy. In Adventure he did not attack until he saw a shine in Sonic's hand he saw as confirmation. The Adventure conflict wasn't "good," but it was far from absurd or moronic. Knuckles has never been stupid and has often actually been portrayed as rather smart: he knew a ton of quirks in Angel island, he successfully navigated a social world he had never been part of in Adventure by leaving the island, he often had puzzle-like scenarios in Adventure 2 and Heroes, and as you mentioned he was a translator in the Riders series. These are not the traits of a stupid person; he was just socially isolated all his life and messed up a lot in that particular sphere as a totally expected result.
The movie looks like it’s gonna do him right. “Do I look like I need your power” was a perfect reintroduction.
"In Generations he was just a cheerleader"
I mean, to be fair, that was everyone's role in Generations. I dont think that's necessarily bad writing for Knuckles specifically just for the game itself. No one was important who showed up there save sonic and Eggman. And I guess maybe the three rival battles. I can understand people being upset he wasn't one of those. But the hedgehog rivals filling those makes sense too.
Honestly, I am kinda not fine with it either way. Just because everyone got the same damage doesn't mean that it's suddenly not damage anymore. Ironically, Shadow actually got downplayed more than Knuckles tho, because the fight just doesn't make a lot of sense conceptually.
It was huge missed opportunity to have classic Knuckles and classic Amy meet their more modern counterparts.
@@PeterGriffin11 The problem is that Sega believes that people hate the playable characters in Sonic Adventure 2 outside of Sonic. So Sega won't let Knuckles be playable and if Knuckles can't be playable Sega doesn't see a use for knuckles anymore other than being stupid.
11:22 Most likely Chaos is guarding it when Knuckles is away. As after SA1, Chaos isn’t under Eggman’s control and is back to being calmed by Tikal
13:49
I have a possible explanation to this mishap.
The fact that Sonic can't fly might be the reason why he landed the way he did. Throughout his games we see him running insanely fast and falling from great heights. He's used to this. Tails and Knuckles can fly and glide, but they're not as graceful as Sonic on their feet. They were probably caught off guard by being teleported and neither of them had time to find their bearings quickly enough to ease their descent. Also, since Sonic is the fastest, he probably just naturally has a quicker reaction time than Tails and Knuckles, so he had sufficient time to adjust.
The quicker reaction time is what I assumed when I saw the clip as well
I don't think that really tracks. Both Tails and Knuckles should have experience with falling since, as its mentioned, one can fly and one can glide. Unless they don't make use of their unique abilities at all, they should have practice with it, as much as Sonic does.
Besides which, that fall was pretty slow so even if they had slow reaction they should still have plenty of time to react.
@@eirmundgundnand9442 another possibility is that the fall we're shown is slower than what it actually was. Either way, Sonic has a faster reaction time than both, so it's entirely probable that he had enough time to react while Tails and Knuckles were simply caught off guard.
@@PotatoSlices You're not understanding. Both Tails and Knuckles have abilities that revolve around being in the air. Both should have plenty of experience with those abilities and falling. They shouldn't need to react as the muscle memory should be ingrained. Their reactions should be just as fast as Sonic's, if not faster.
@@eirmundgundnand9442 their reactions simply can't be faster than Sonic's. Sonic is the fastest thing in their universe tied with Shadow (although there's, admittedly, an extensive debate on that). You need reflexes to match the speed in order to be able to properly utilize it. Sonic is shown landing on his feet at quick speeds multiple times throughout his games. In Sonic Adventure he's shown wall jumping through pads, which require reflexes that neither Tails nor Knuckles have been shown to possess. In the opening cutscene for this very same game you see Sonic effortlessly fending off multiple robots who are actively shooting at his with bullets. Neither Tails nor Knuckles have been shown to to able to do this.
If you're still not convinced, look at Sonic Adventure 2 when Sonic and Shadow first encounter each other. Shadow uses chaos control, which, as we both know, is a technique that allows you to manipulate time and space, essentially allowing you to either teleport or stop time outright. Even in their first encounter, when Sonic had no idea what chaos control was, he was still able to see Shadow fly past him. This feat remains unrivaled, as no other character has been shown to perceive Chaos control in this manner. The fact that he was even able to see Shadow while he was using chaos control is a testament to Sonic's reaction speed.
In contrast, in the first scene of Knuckles' story in SA1, Knuckles was caught off guard when Chaos did some sort of jumping attack. Mind you, chaos was standing right in front of him, and Knuckles had his guard up. He still didn't see it coming, or he did and wasn't able to react in time.
Tails in Sonic Adventure crashed his plane and didn't think to jump off and use his flight ability to save himself. Sure, he's gotten more competent, but, if we're arguing reaction times, we don't have anything to go by that Tails' reacting time is on par with Sonic's. All of this talk about muscle memory is pure speculation.
Hell, in that very cutscene where Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are falling, even Sonic barely has enough time to land on his feet. They went from standing on solid ground to immediately falling while being flipped on their heads. Anybody would've been disoriented by that. Even Sonic was visibly shocked. If Sonic barely had enough time to react, then there's no way Tails or Knuckles had enough time to react.
Knuckles in the new movie was probably by far the best version of Knuckles!
RE: Knuckles in Forces:
It gets worse. Not only does his "Big Plan" turn out to be something he thought up in about five minutes, it gets everyone involved except Bulletproof the Self-Insert killed as soon as Whiny the Jackal lifts a single finger. And then the IDW comics made it even _worse,_ first with the prequels establishing that _Knuckles had advanced knowledge of Eggman's takeover,_ and instead of trying to stop it, he decided to _let it happen and then become the Resistance leader so he could be a hero._ They also retroactively established that really, Knuckles _wasn't_ the leader anyway. He made speeches and acted like the leader, sure, but he was a _figurehead,_ and all the real work was done by Amy. Because Ian's gonna include a Sally Acorn even if he's not allowed to actually use Sally. And then after all that, turns out he just left the Master Emerald exposed this whole time and now Metal Sonic is quite literally sitting on it.
And it sucks, because Ian's actually written some really good Knuckles stories in Archie, both before and after the reboot, but now he's just towing the line.
Pretty sure it wasn't Flynn wanting a Sally Acorn figure so much as him once again wanting to shill Amy.
I'm sure you might've already seen it, but please, PLEASE make a reaction video to the Frontiers Prologue animation if you haven't watched it yet! This was one of the first videos I watched from your channel, and seeing your wish for better characterization being fulfilled by Sonic Team is amazing!
Game Knuckles: Badass
Knuckles in 2000's: Dumbass
Movie Knuckles: *Oh hell yes*
It really does feel like Sega are turning Knuckles into what all the haters thought he originally was; just a derpy idiot.
*was
Sega hasn't done that at all in the last few years
@@certifiednobody maybe they learned thier mistakes
@@ritaandrunt5767 Sonic Colors: Ultimate says otherwise.
@@dreamcastshadow2970 did they change him agian in that game or not ?
@@ritaandrunt5767 no but sega didnt learn their lesson with getting better.
In Sonic 06, there's also that scene in the last story section where Knuckles ran the wrong way before realizing that he was running toward a dead-end and turning around.
Knuckles, it must be said. You.Are.An.Idiot!
"Shut up!"