Hey there, folks! Hope you enjoy the video. Apologies for the wait on this one, but I've been spending time working on more non-TH-cam work recently. Either way, I'm definitely going to keep talking about Archie Sonic (and other stuff), even if my output has been slower. Either way, thanks for watching, and remember to check out Scentbird if you're intersted, and use LOWART55 to get 55% off your first month at Scentbird: sbird.co/3LpeCX1
I think Fiona is so tied to Scourge because to her he is genuine. Genuinely an asshole, but as a result very predictable and thereby safer than waiting for the good guys to eventually "betray" her for not being 100% good.
That makes sense. I feel like Fiona needs someone who's more neutral like herself: she doesn't have to rely on them being a jerk but she also doesn't have to fear they'll turn on her for not living up to their ideals.
it really feels like Fiona and Scourge's relationship ends up being the exact mirror of what Sonic has with Amy. She gets acknowledged and helps out scourge a lot but he still sidelines her while not completely killing the tension of "will they?" Its like the same kind of cat and mouse situation but toxic, which is appropriate for Scourge
When you consider it as a Dark Reflection of Sonic and Amy's relationship, you have to question if that relationship is even a good thing. I mean, newer media related to Sonic has been trying to move away from that particular ship, and for good reason (Heck, Sonic Frontiers 'subtly' Lampshades it with Amy's boss fight song... Where the lyrics very much tells you what the problem is). Of course, if Amy _and_ Sonic were allowed to Mature, then it would be a whole other story... But Sonic Team has pulled a "Breaking of the Fellowship", so I can see one of two outcomes, 1) Sonic and the other members goes on new seperate adventures with many more characters, or maybe even some old ones made to fit... Or 2) Sonic Team does a Copout and Reunites "The Fellowship" in the next game.
@@rhymerlegend2717 Not really. Sonic and Sally's relationship around the time Fiona was introduced was rather solid. Of course, years of constantly circling writers and many of those writers having a hatred for solid relationshops resulted in Sally and Sonic's relationship devolving into a bright hot mess. I say "Hatred for solid relationships" in general because those same writers messed with Antoine and Bunnie's relationship, and Amy Rose and Sonic's relationship was _very_ unhealthy no matter which way you aimed it. I am not even being biased. Many fan works have shown that Amy and Sonic _could_ work well together if they are well-written... But when it came down to brass tacks, most publishers can never seem to get SonAmy right, and make Amy come off as either deranged, delusional or uncaring of anyone's feelings aside from those she wants to make note of, or for Sonic to come off as just uncaring until it blows up in his face. It is sad day when Fans write better than mainstream publishers in general.
@Victor-056 Amy's character arc in Adventure is that she has to become worthy to marry Sonic (who is a wild force bound to no one). Sonic as he is in the games is not someone who would stay in one place long-term or compromise himself/his interests for anyone not even Amy. This is a big difference from his Archie version (and other Western versions at that) who is bound to one kingdom in loyalties or at least works in the Freedom Fighters so it's easy enough to see how he could be with Sally. Amy as she was envisioned circa Adventure is reckless and hyper and really goofy/wacky but still able to see redemption in anyone. The angle they tried in Boom upward with her isn't really in line with this.
I love that Fiona consistently makes bad choices not because she doesn't know they're bad-instead, she projects her perception that do‑gooders are moral hypocrites onto anyone who tries to tell her she's making bad choices and then doubles down out of spite.
It works so well because honestly, it's realistic. I see so many people around me who keep pouring their time and energy into decisions that are bad for them--bad jobs, bad relationships, bad life choices--who refuse to back out even when they know it's wrong. I suspect that so many hold on because to change would mean they were wrong previously, and it's just too hard to accept they were wrong for so long.
Ian Flynn did reveal that eventually, he wanted Fiona to realise her dependency on Scourge and their unhealthy relationship. This would lead her to betray Scourge and take over the Destructix. Considering that Anti-Silver had been in the works around the time the comic was forced to reboot, with only concepts about him still shuffling around that all we know was that his name would have been Sterling - I have a feeling that Scourge getting betrayed by his girlfriend would have led him to encounter Anti-Shadow and Anti-Silver, sort of forming his own trio of villains. It's speculation at best but it would have been SO COOL! Even though I do like Scourge and Fiona as a couple. Ah well. That's what fan fics are for X3
I see this possibly being a bit like Surge an her creator where he haunts her till finally beating his ass makes to sounds stop in her head a bit like Knuckles when throwing a fecker off a Island
Video Title- "Sonic's WORST Girlfriend" Video Contents- A spirited and compelling defense of a character I've only ever seen get dunked into the trash-can so hard the air-friction caused her fur to ignite.
There's something strangely logical about someone with trust issues gravitating towards someone like Scourge. If you know for certain that you can't trust someone, then that becomes a sort of twisted form of trust.
Scourge is a wildcard, yes, but his boundless need to stroke his own ego means he is also easier to string along than a puppet. Something Fiona has absolutely zero hesitation exploiting non-stop.
@@CantusTropus I've actually seen this happen in real life more times than I care to admit. People who have severe trust issues will never fully trust anyone because of the majority of the time they don't even love and trust themselves. Her being around scourge makes 100% sense because he is an unpredictable predictable person. What this essentially means is because of her insecurity she seeks to manipulate others as some form of control to make up for the fact that she doesn't trust anyone. I'm actually very impressed about how well this character was written because it was realistic. Essentially she is her own worst enemy in all situations. Even if scourge were to change for the better a person like that would become very hurt because they were not the ones to directly inspire that change. It's funny as this is to say it takes a person with severe trust issues to fully comprehend another person with severe trust issues lol. I'm only laughing because at the very least some of us can suppress ours.
When you describe it like that, Fiona's accidental ending feels a lot like the ending of The Sopranos, where it's not necessarily that Tony died, but that Tony's going to spend every day of the rest of his life with that tension hanging over him and will never know peace.
Dude, Dr. F was one of my favorite villains in all Sonic media! I think even more than Eggman himself! He was such a good foil to Knuckles. Even better when you remember Knuckles himself is basically responsible for Dr. Finitevus existing in the first place.
I do like the idea of "The girl saved herself and she turned out worse for it." Kinda funny in todays context in a meta sense flipping the whole empowerment thing on it's head, but I feel like it really emphasizes why some people that need help shouldn't be left behind. It's been a minute since I read that arc though so I will need to re-read to see how much of it was source or Ian recontextualizing.
I'm surprised that with the English script for Sonic Forces stating Sonic was held prisoner for six months and all, no one has done a fan story where they parallel that with what happened in Fiona's backstory. As far as we know, Sonic either assumed his friends were killed, don't know he's still alive or similarly to her, thought they've abandoned him.
@@rayvenkman2087nah, Sonic trush they and he KNOWS the minute that Eggman kills one of his friends HE WILL brag to Sonic with that stupid laugh and he did not do that yet.
You know, if it wasn’t for the mandate Sega has on Shadow, I can totally see him rebutting Fiona’s “You can’t count on anybody” with: “That’s just what weak people say to give themselves a reason to keep running.” I would pay cold hard cash to see that and Fiona’s reaction to it! 💵 💸💰💴
The "Mandates" are highly questionable at best, and completely made up at worst. Not only are they designed to attack a specific part of the Sonic Fanbase, (such as denying the fact that Mobius is actually the Canon name to the Planet the Sonic series is set on, and was further used in the Sonic X anime, which makes it just _ONE_ example), but the origins of the Mandate came from Ian Flynn's blogs... And didn't have any photos or screenshots to provide proper evidence. If it truly were a _proper_ mandate, it first and foremost would have come from Sega itself. You cannot just claim "NDA", seeing as the Mandates were supposedly penned to be _Public,_ meaning it was to be known by the public if they were real. Second of all, the way the Mandates were stated to have been set up according to Ian Flynn, sounds too much like it was a plot taken from a Yakuza Drama. I mean, "I and my editor were taken to a dark room with a little table under a single light source, while a Sega Lawyer and a guy with a briefcase basically told us what to do from the darkness without showing their faces". This is paraphrasing of what Ian Flynn claimed had occurred when he was told of "The Mandates"... Which not only sounds unreal, but is downright daft. And third, and this is the part that torpedoes the whole thing: Ian Flynn claims the Mandates he talks about were pennded by Sega of Japan and he keeps blaming _them_ for it... The problem is, Ian Flynn "Following the Mandates" _can't_ have come from Orders of Sega Of Japan. You want to know why? Because Sega moved their Main HQ to California long before, effectively taking away Japan's powerbase over the Archie Comics. That means that Ian Flynn should have been saying it was from Sega of _AMERICA,_ not Sega of _JAPAN..._ ...But instead, everytime "The Mandates" are brought up, Ian Flynn keeps blaming Sega of Japan... And _NEVER_ Sega of _America_ as he _should_ be doing if they were Real.
@@Victor-056actually the planet was NEVER named as "mobius" in actually canonic games, only as "earth" by eggman in one of the most famous cutscenes from sonic adventure 2 (being fair, that was in the english dub, and I don't know of he said the name of the planet in japanese) ☝️🤓
@@nicolasbernasconi7228I never said it was in the games, I said it was in _Sonic X,_ the _ANIME._ And yes, he called the World they came from in both English and Japan "Mobius".
Talking about the reboot always makes me sad. It's just so much more final and complete than any other reboot. Those characters aren't just gone or dead. They've been so thoroughly erased that they can't even be mentioned or even be memories to others in their own universe or the wider Sonic universe. True, uncompromised oblivion.
there's some short fan comics which slightly adapt to be made issues of Archie an looking at them hurts Saffron doing jobs an the idea of Rouge not giving a dam what Fiona says while bad mouthing Scourge an her lifestyle hehe
Same. Sonic comics will literally never be the same as pre-SGW Archie. The Archie comics were what carried the franchise for years for me. Now it’s the movies. Everything else is just coming off as mediocre trying to be the best with varying levels of success.
Tbh there's a chance they're still there offscreen Sonic remembered his parents and didn't act shocked to their death So perhaps they're still there There's also the theory that the reboot is a new multiverse Separate from the old one
A fun little detail I noticed while watching this video about Fiona's outfit after she joins Scourge is that while her clothes change to be more edgy/tuff/aggressive she still retains her cutesy yellow bow in her hair. It makes for a fun anachronism and also possible has some implications about her character.
I like to think it was a keepsake from her mother and that despite all her talk about not needing others deep down it's her parents she wants to rescue her.
@@Richforce1In my canon, that bow is her only link to her biological parents whom she knows nothing else about and was raised in an orphanage or by step parents who didn't think much of her. And in a twist of irony, she finds out (Through Vector's skills) that her real parents didn't want to give her up but had to for her safety because they're involved with some real bad people which changes everything for her. Have the progenitor of all her problems be the actions of someone she never even met or had a connection to her past and that leads her to a babyface turn when she goes to avenge her parents. Her past crimes haven't been wiped clean but there's no longer that resentment in her and honestly, Sonic (Especially if we're factoring in IDW Sonic) could do with another friend who's not hesitant to lay it thick with him like Shadow except they're on the same team when it comes to matters. Be the pragmatic one who's not afriad to tell it how it is and challenge the others like being the Kira Nerys to their Julian Bashir when it's warranted.
You can’t help but feel bad for Fiona. Yes, she ended up being a terrible person, but that’s only because Robotnik, not Eggman, the original Robotnik, left her trapped, and Sonic and co never found her, leaving her to believe they abandoned her, and causing her to the dark side, maybe if they had found her, she would’ve been her old self.
Thing is their rescue attempt went to crud because of the Power Gem Ray took out of the machine that powered the base, That lead to Ray being trapped in another zone while it took Sonic and Mighty out of the base when they tried to get Ray. It was a circumstances that the three of them couldn't control. Sonic is one to never leave a man behind and prefer to get in and out with his buds. That doesn't mean he and the others chose to abandon her, but the rescue attempt was a disaster that ended with Eggman getting away.
@@TheSFMWonderer And guess what? Mighty told this story to Fiona Fox during his quest to find Ray in the Knuckles comics. Fiona was with Nic the Weasel to find treasure that was the Power Gem and they encountered Mighty who came along and he talked to her about what happened with their rescue attempt for her that was botched. Ultimately Mighty found Ray and with assistance with Fiona and Nic managed to save Ray from being trapped in the zone he was trapped in ever since the botched rescue attempt. Despite hearing things from her former rescuer himself, Fiona still did what she did.
@@TheSFMWonderer Her backstory did include her issues of abandonment, all due to circumstances she never really thought outside the box. At least Sonic, Mighty, and Ray tried to save her, and Sonic being a boyfriend with her for a time at least would have made up for the blunder that left her and Ray in the circumstances they were in. After she had met up with the Evil Sonic who ultimately became Scourge for a time, she made up her mind to give in to her worst self, despite knowing Sonic and his sacrifice that left him in space far from home for an entire year and had to go all out to get back to Earth and Tails who she knew had a crush on her and played with his heart. She projects her feelings of abandonment into anything, any time someone calls her out on her mistakes. Sonic felt remorse for his failures and tries to reflect and make amends. But she sees everyone as someone who will ultimately hurt her, betray her, and leave her. Yet she does a lot for Scourge who hardly treats her like a Queen. Eventually, it would lead to her to one day turn on Scourge, who flaws should have been apparent to her sooner that their relationship is toxic.
@@shadamyandsonamylover This video is a 15 minute defense of her character and about how she's a far more sympathetic and sad character and this is the contribution to the discussion yall have.
@@MrSandMan961 I’ve left other comments on the actual retrospective. His videos are amazing. I can leave other comments aside from how good the video was.
@Firguy it was honestly very weird she was trying to negotiate a collaboration and tried appealing to Tails. It was a very controversial scene cause while it can be argued she deserved it the specific thing she was doing at that time wasn't that big a deal so a lot of people were confused why it made Sally that angry.
Man. Poor little Tails he always suffers so much, from being bullied almost his whole life. To the Fiona Situation, Then his whole arc in Frontiers about Self-Doubt. Dont even get me started on the EXE Games. Edit: I just remembered about Cosmo’s death (WHICH BY THE WAY WAS CAUSED BY TAILS) and Tails’ uselessness from Colors to Forces. GIVE OUR YELLOW BOY MORE RESPECT.
Actually, Fiona wasn't left behind they almost saved her but Robotnik got away with her because Mighty started tearing up the place once Ray disappeared into a pocket-zone. Fiona was just looking for someone to blame.
I think that was reconned later. It's a weird hiccup in her orgins where later they just say Sonic and Mighty left her behind. She's literally talking TO Sonic about it and he doesn't correct her. Ironically enough this wasn't a retcon by Ian.
I could’ve sworn Ian said there might’ve been plans for Fiona to eventually leave Scourge’s side and stand on her own like that certain line seems to imply. Might be misremembering though.
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 I saw the comment, I had no idea about Fiona taking over the Destructix (thought she would’ve left on her own) and Anti-Silver. That all sounds pretty interesting.
Shard the Metal Sonic, literally the reason I got into the archie comics, and also literally 1 page of Shard's banter with Nicole got me into my early shipping phase.
Too bad the ship between Shard and Nicole gets zero support. I've seen Nicole get paired with Sonic and Sally which I can understand but they both are sidelined. It's always the annoying fox kid
I genuinely cannot believe a side of the fandom hates Sally because she dated sonic even though she treated him amazingly but completely ignore Fiona when she cheated on sonic, kicked tails at his most vulnerable moment, betrayed the freedom fighters, and she was just a horrible person in general. I haven’t read the comics in a while so I don’t remember if she did even worse things, but anyways she does not get enough hate. If she has 100 haters, I’m one of them. If She has 1, it’s me. If she has 0, I’m dead.
We NEED a Snively video or a Geoffrey video. Snively was a super interesting character and def laid the groundwork for some IDW characters (Dr. Starline)
I definitely think of all the original characters, Antoine or Julie-Su are deserving of the spotlight next Antoine goes through so many ups and downs during the run of the comics, going from a joke to a hero, I think he deserves to be covered Julie-Su however is interesting for an entirely different reason, she’s not only a character who (basic summary) turned on her entire clan to end up fighting against them, she also has one of the most interesting relationships in the form of her and Knuckles, I know it got covered a bit here and there but I would love to see her get a full dedicated video someday
I started out just loving her for her leather outfit and cool ass attitude, but now I love her for more haha, she’s genuinely my favourite sonic character
There's a small contingent of people that really wished Fiona stayed on the straight and narrow, but I think this "villain arc" of hers was inevitable. She was constantly being second guessed and harrassed by her colleagues every step of the way, and Sonic being her rock to cling to eventually crumbled. I could see her endgame being the leader of the Destructix and basically being a girl who likes to get her hands dirty to get the job done. Maybe one day she'll apologize to Tails though, because he really didn't deserve what she dished out. But it should the LAST apology IMHO. Anyways, I'd say Julie-Su, or Mighty for the next one, because both have REALLY compelling arcs in the comic that could easily fill a video Lowart👍🏾
My issue with her turning evil is really just how much continuity Ian ignored when writing it. Like Fiona as seen in her tought bubbles had forgiven Sonic after his sacrifice in 125, she had made it clear Evil-Sonic in play-la-playa was digusting her and we saw in other internal thoughts that she was genuin about her stance to being good. The "tied to a shaddy past" at this point fell like a drop of a reason on a hot stone while all Scourge romance stuff happened off-sceen and directly contradicted what was stated before. Fionas heel turn was rushed and lacking good build up that was actually believeable if you look at the bigger picture.
Straightforward, Elias Acorn, i love him He's the only character that when Ian took over he only had to push Elias MORE into the spotlight. Maybe Penders doesn't really thinking about him at all and that's what fascinates me a lot about him too. Elias is Ken Penders greatest creation because he didn't really care about him.
I only owned a handful of Archie Sonic issues when I was a kid, but I distinctly remember the impression Archie Silver made on me when I read Sonic Universe: 30 Years Later. I was struck by how different in temperament this cold, stoic hedgehog was from the Silver I knew from the games, only to realize that his attitude was merely a facade. I now consider this facade to be a central aspect of Silver’s character in the Archie Comics, and even informs his appearances in the IDW comics and games (Forces in particular). I’d love to see a video really diving into the nuance that Archie Silver has to offer.
Rotor is a video I’ve been anticipating. I’m hoping he can finally graduate from “this guy.” Naugus would also make a good one, as with Jeffery, Elias, and Silver
I wanna see a video on Dulcy, she’s my favorite Sonic character. I think she’s funny, arguably. But seriously, I’d like to see a video just about Snively. His rise to power and his pathetic end could make for a compelling video
Dealing with Dulcy would require us to acknowledge that one storyline where her (also a dragon) boyfriend physically abused her, though (yes, that happened).
I like to think he'd have had a spot of hope where he thinks Regina is busting him out only for it to turn out to be Shadow with Hope Kintobor by his side and she'd just be "hello 'brother', my friend and I are here to bring you back to New Mobotropolis so you can talk to them about your war crimes."
Fiona is one of those characters you would believe being created later in the series, but her debute is actually really early. Its just like breezie who even was in the adventures of sonic the hedgehog tv series and later being the owner of a casino/fight club way way later in the comics. Hard to believe that both of them were technically robots at one point. (yes I know that the robot fiona was just a clone of the original, breezie technically still is a robot I believe)
I’m fascinated to see your take on the Stinky Man himself - Geoffrey is a notoriously hated character, for good reason, but I couldn’t help but get drawn into his story in the Flynn era. It reframed a lot about him, and damn it I’ve actually felt some sympathy for the horrible, stinky man
Agree I wasn’t completely happy how he kiss sally acorn I mean seriously it’s absolutely disgusting and not to mention he was an absolute traitor to everybody including the freedom fighters
Penders' fricking self-insert OC. Whenever there's one of these in a group, and they have an anthropomorphic animal character, you always find out it's a freaking skunk. Always a skunk!
I can't wait for your review of Geoffrey St.John. Like Fiona he went from a completely forgettable C lister to my personal favorite Sonic character. A guy defined by his moral compromises in service to ideals and who followed his ideals without examining where they lead him until it was too late. A guy who put abstract ideas over the actual people in his life and step by step walked into an ever tightening noose. Add on to the fact how visceral of a reaction some comic fans have towards him is extra fun.
@@firepuppies4086 Which I never quiet bought for two reasons; 1. Pender's said what he said after he was no longer writing for the comic so it has no more impact on the actual canon then if I'd said it 2. The argument that Geoffrey is an adult and Sally is a child always has felt to me like a mirror image of the argument that the character who looks like a child but is actually a 1,000 year old witch so it's not creepy for an adult to romance them because the author said so. Sally and Geoffrey are both visually in the same age bracket of the three that exist in the archie verse that of child, adult and old. We also see that Sally, Sonic and Geoffrey and the rest of the freedom fighters (besides Tails) for that matter are all emotionally about as mature as each other. So all the visual and narrative information we have is that Geoffrey and Sally are on the same level. If the canon had said Geoffrey and Sonic or Antoine were all the same age that wouldn't have struck me as incongruent with his characterization. It's just declared a bizarre Penderism that is best left by the wayside.
@@fremenchips If I may. When Geoffrey was first introduced (back when the comics was basically an extension of SatAM), most characters didn't really had a defined age. I think it was Karl Bollers (he and Ken infamously HATED each other, which sort of lead to an retcon war between them) that gave the characters defined ages and had him marry Hershey. I mean, look at Antoine; he had a crush on Sally and he's confirmed to have been 18 (issue 46 has the ages of some characters confirmed in the letters and Geoffrey isn't one of them).
@@SaiyanGamer95 Thanks mate. You just explained a Million things that kept bothering me about _WHY_ Archie Comics was so rife with all those Retcons. The fact that Archie thought it was a good idea to put two people who hate each other's guts in the same room, was a ticking timebomb in and of itself.
The thing is that Fiona Fox's origin actually doesn't go back to the Knuckles comics it goes back to Sonic 28 and the two parter that would lead into the Tails Mini series. Cause you want to know why Tails had such a crush on Fiona (and it's not just because she's a literal fox) it's because he fell for a robot duplicate of her that Eggman had around that he tried using to get rid of Tails which didn't work and the robot wound up rusting in the ocean and couldn't move. Mike Gallagher made the two parter as this goofy little story to tie into the Tails Mini Story and didn't really have any plans on doing anything else with Fiona who within the narrative, Robotnick literally called a macguffin. However because of how she looked and how the story was framed people really wanted more of Fiona. They wanted this robot to be fixed, become Tails girlfriend or maybe have Tails find the actual Fiona (since with these robo replicants you needed an original to make a copy of) and have the two get together. Like there was actually a fair amount of requests for this character to come back but I don't think ANYONE on the writing team ever got why. Which is why Ken Penders brought her back just off handidly in the Knuckles back up to tie into a Sega Sonic tie in and then later she got brought back more properly in the comics but... yeah not as fans wanted. Hell after she starts dating Sonic before the Flynn run there's a bit where Fiona tells Tails "hey that robot you fell in love me wasn't me I don't feel that way for you" that feels like it was spitting in fan's faces of what they originally wanted from Fiona. Which is why I always found the idea that people preferred the "classic" organic Fiona and didn't like what Flynn did with her baffling since as Lowart pointed out, this was a very inconsistent boring character just dating Sonic.... because. Flynn actually made her interesting and yeah I like Lowart really laying down why that is. I do feel she and Scrouge do have somewhat of an actual relationship and he isn't just fully using her but yeah it is clear Fioana's talk of independence and not wanting to get betrayed again do hide this deeper insecurity as well and I did like how that played out and wished we got more of that as felt like there was more done with her we'll sadly never get to see. But yeah this is a good vid really focusing on those key moments of her character. As for who I'd personally want next I kind of want one on Lien Da as honestly though I did actually like what bits Penders had of her she was another character done better by Flynn and yeah that'd be a fun one to talk about.
Yeah I was honestly surprised he didn’t talk about her actual origin story. Do I smell a fake fan?! 🤔 Jk but yeah I was surprised. The love drama which eventually leads to the “sibling” drama between Sonic and tails is one of my all time favorites.
@@shadamyandsonamylover I think Lowart may want to save that for when he talks more indepth about the Sonic and Tails fight over their friendship as that seems like an arc he probably wants to dedicate a video about so discussing Automatic Fiona may be worth delving in there not here.
"They wanted this robot to be fixed, become Tails girlfriend or maybe have Tails find the actual Fiona" Yup, sounds pretty accurate to my hopes as a 10-year-old in the mid-90s (minus the parts where I had hopes to become a writer for Archie Comics myself so I could fulfill some wild, fanfic-tier aspirations with the pair....... I won't get into it). Wasn't aware that Archie was receiving a ton of fan letters on the subject, but nice to see I wasn't alone.
Ian did a lot of course correction for the books when he started. For the most part, I think he did a good job with a lot of the characters going out in a blaze of glory (Locke, Sir Connery, Tommy, etc). Fiona though... she deserved better than a sudden 180.
@@MetalWeebChaos Ian is only really good at improving characters made by other people... Make him write wholesale plots from barebones, or try to have him improve a character he doesn't like, and he will do a bad job. Yeah, Ian can claim "I had this idea for this character" all he likes, but I have noticed Ian Flynn keeps changing his narrative as and when he feels like it. If the story was bad, he will claim "I had this idea, but the execs didn't approve", but if the story was _good,_ he will take all the credit without telling us _who_ gave him the idea. He acted that way during the whole fiasco with the Zombot Arc and how Shadow went out like a Moron... Keep in mind that The Mandates Ian likes to harp on about _Don't_ say "You have to write Shadow as an Edgelord", and Ian Flynn tends to write Shadow as an Edgelord. I cannot really trust what Ian Flynn says half the time as a result.
14:53 Well, since your asking, can we get a video on Hope Kintobor? I find her a fascinating character, especially near the end with her vow to restore the Kintobor name.
Its hilarious that she basically sat around in the background for years until somebody was like "Hey how about we actually use this Maria expy as a supporting character for Shadow?" Of course for them to do that they had to actually use Shadow after HE sat around in the background for years.
Bro I had no idea that you got Scourge to be this channel's official spokesman! Fiona was always one of my favourite characters with her growing from good to bad and believing that she does not rely on anyone. Every interaction with her was always interesting from every character. I wish they brought her back. Also you should definitely talk about Shard, "The Metal Sonic who was given a chance." Either him or Snively.
Now that I think of it, an Anti-Fiona wasn’t introduced was she? That could’ve been interesting, I wonder how she’d have differed from the original, would she be inherently evil? Would she have turned good over time? There’d be a lot of interesting routes to take
Fiona's character and actions made me realize just how Tailsmo is a way better Tails ship then her and him since Cosmo and Tails lifts each others up when they're at their lowest point and encourage each other to do their best as well as mutual love and respect for them both this is why i adore and love Tailsmo to this day, why i believe is a interesting and better pairing for Tails i also would love to see scenario where Tails and Cosmo crossed paths with Fiona and Fiona trying to mess with them mainly Tails to try and get under his skin
I think the other reason tailsmo worked so well and why so many people loved that relationship, is because it was real and genuine. It wasn’t two characters plucked by the fan base and put together but a writing team who over the course of dozens of episodes wrote how two characters would fall in love, it’s one of the many reasons I want cosmo to come back as a character. She added a lot to tails, when he was doubting himself she was there, he didn’t need to look to sonic or deep in himself to realize how useful he was, all he had to do was look to his friend and realized how much she mattered and that’s all he needed to fight. I’m unsure if we will ever see her again, I think maybe it’s a copyright issue. But if anything from sonic x is to be adapted into the modern canon. I’d love for cosmo to be that. Just give her and tails a happy ending this time. Everytime I’ve gone back to watch sonic x I always cry at the ending
Wasn't expecting a video on Fiona, but I will gladly take it. As she's easily one of my favorite villains in not just Archie Sonic, but in the franchise's history.
I would love to see you do a video on the Destructix team as a whole, I think it is incredibly interesting how Ian Flynn was able to take basic and bland characters and make them interesting and more complex, becoming their own group with its own motives and agendas.
i never understood the people who didnt like how "fiona became evil out of nowhere" , before being evil she wasnt really an interesting character, but now that she is a villain, she is an interesting character, just like Scourge, she is someone that i love to hate
Sad thing is Ken admitted that Fiona was simply going to be Sonic’s rebound girl until he got tired of her and went back to Sally and after that she’d be heartbroken the same way Tails was… So before Ian, Fiona wasn’t even a character… she was just “a character’s girlfriend”.
Well that is rather easy because some people value continuity and character consistancy a great lot to stay engaged in a story. So if Fiona's turn to evil makes no sense than will those people not go "how interesting" but "wait that doesn't make any sense tho"
I'd love to see a video on King Max next. Oddly enough, as much as I would love to see Shard and Elias, I feel like it wouldn't feel right to look at them so soon since their highlights are so late in the comic.
Ian seems like a very interesting guy to me, his way of writing (about existing material) is to see and recognize inconsistencies and try to put together a character arc around it. He did the same thing in Frontiers. In the case of Tails, some feel it was "some of the least immersive dialogue in the game", others say it fixed the character. I? I feel like he didn't have much time to present this idea, it's good that Tails declares it, but I want to see it in action
I really don't like Ian's attepts with Tails and Amy in frontiers. Amy makes no real sense as he goes way to much off his inner headcanon were all the heroes are a big friend groupe that sees each other on a weekly bases at the least (as that is how he has always written them in the comics and even routenly comes up with excuses in the IDW comics to treat them as such) and ignores that "long time no see" is such a often used phrase in the games because canonically do Sonic and his friends spend very little time between adventures as they are always off scattered across the world on there own adventures. As such makes Amy's big story about "bringing love to the world at the expance of not being with sonic" makes no sense as "not being around Sonic" is already her status quo. Tails meanwhile is just a direct attempt to address all the critizim forces Tails recieved which fails in 2 different ways one of which being Ian's own fault. The Former is as the Comics are now canon did he already wrote the "Tails gets his shit back together" story in IDW Sonic Issue 1 and after that constantly showed Tails refound courge (like during all but the last seconds of Metal Virus, Battle for Angle Island or Zeti Hunt) While the other problem being that in his desperate attempt to address the fans did he ignore that the problem he tried to address from Sonic Forces was already resolved in Sonic Forces as even if it was terribly written was Tails story in Forces that his time with Classic Sonic gave him his confidence back which is why he stands with the sonics and the OC together before the final boss. All of this leads to him unessarily doing a repeat of Sonic Adventure 1's story arc for Tails that was unneeded, due to gameplay limitation worse than the original SA1 version and causes continuity problems with the comics he wrote.
I'm more sad we never got any follow up on Nicolette Weasal. Fiona first and stable partner yet we have no ideal when or why Fiona left, sure Nic might have left her but we don't actually know for sure. It would have been interesting hearing her side of the story. Apparently the reason Nic never came back sooner was because Ian Flynn didn't like her. Not that I can't understand why but that's still a poor excuse, considering her potential going forward.
Also making the thumbnail for this video a clickbait that looks like it'll be trashtalking Fiona while also invoking that panel of Sally punching her that her haters are weird about and then making the video a 15 minute impassioned defense of her and not having said panel in the video at all is incredibly funny. You gotem.
@@ORLY911I wouldn’t mind her (Anti-Fiona) being loyal af and not afraid to be a leader and express her vulnerabilities and dependencies, yet still a bad guy.
Yoo. I’m running a Sonic D&D campaign based on the Archie comics, so these videos help me with the research of and about the characters and/or places whenever I need a refresher. Much appreciated and keep up the good work as always!
Woah hey, I didn’t expect this. Fiona was always a personal favorite character in the comic for me, which was often an unpopular opinion to have back when the comic was still going, heh. I can’t understate how much people *hated* her after she slapped Tails in 172. Even after the comic rebooted, I remember back in the day having to convince my fellow teammates at Archie Sonic Online to even consider doing more stories focused on her since no one wanted to touch it, lol. Seems like a good slap is always a sure way to make enemies in the Sonic fandom, haha. Thanks for explaining a bunch of the reasons I enjoy her as a character though. It’s nice to finally see some positive recognition of what Ian was able to do with her :)
You should always love a good villain. And Fiona is just that. I love her so much. I remember reading that issue in the car where she slapped tails. I read that issue over and over and over again and could not get over how giddy I felt over the drama lol I miss drama in my Sonic comics. IDW needs to step it up…
If you need more pro-Fiona teammates I've been rotating this character in my mind since I was 16 I've legit assumed I was her biggest and only fan until now.
@@woobgamer5210 sigh. I miss the old days more every day. At least we have the movies now. They seem to be the only good characterization (with good models lol)
Not sure what Ken wanted to do with Fiona, but Ian certainly had plans doing a 180 on her character. Doing that change gained her popularity while introducing Bean and Bark supporting that storyboard he was cooking for Fiona.
First off Todo in the intro! Good taste! Real excited to see Thrash in the shilouettes. I wish more people talked about him cause he was such a compelling antagonist. Someone who despite doing something irredeemably terrible still had a lot of tragedy to his character. Some characters I think would make good videos Lien-Da - She got such a glow up in Flynn's run! I especially like how she falls further into villainy while Dimitri tries to seek redemption Beauregard Rabbot - Not only was he a great way to bring the Sandblasters back as villains but his whole dilemma had a lot of nuance I'd never expect out of a Sonic comic Elias - Poor guy just can't catch a break in Flynn's run... would also be a great video to bring up a special surprise returnee Antoine - The Geoffrey trial issue alone could get its own video Eclipse - Reboot character but he's one of my fave Sonic characters period. He's the perfect antagonist for Shadow and I love how he feels so similar to SA2 Shadow. His conflict between wanting to avenge the Black Arms but still caring about Shadow really sold me on his character arc.
Really looking forward to the video where you talk about Geoffrey St. John. Flynn was able to turn one of the worst characters of the early Archie into one of the best.
If I had to suggest a video on anyone, it'd be Bunnie, the lead character who never really got to BE a lead character. In SatAM, or even Archie pre and post reboot, she was a mountain of potential, who never really got that solid break, forced much like Antoine to take up supporting role for most of her existence. She's a great character and I think she'd make for an even greater character study in your usual manner.
We'll get to silver eventually and maybe Geoffrey too, so instead, I wanna see you go over Rotor in greater detail. Mostly because I always enjoyed him despite how much he was mostly in the background.
Man, that girl caused both Sonic and Tails to fight each other. Also, Sonic dated Fiona so Tails would give up on her. Sonic is the biggest player in Mobius that you can do a parody of(Mombo no.5) of all the girls he has dated.
@@geoffreyrichards6079wouldve loved to see that get played more. Have scourge actually get under Sonic’s skin like he did in those issues. But maybe Sonic actually ends up doing something he regrets. Wouldve been interesting.
@@samuelrodriguez9801 That’s basically where the line can be defined between them. But if push ever came to shove, either one could easily become like the other.
A little bit of Fiona in my life A little bit of Bunny by my side A little bit of Rouge's all I need A little bit of Mina's what I see A little bit of Sally in the sun A little bit of Amy all night long A little bit of Blaze, here I am A little bit of you makes me your hedgehog
Fiona Fox is such a sick charcter. I read through most of the Archie Comics and I absolutly fell in love with her. Just like every other amazing charcter we lost through the Reboot, I really hope that we *somehow* get her back in the comics one day, that Ian just *somehow* pulls it off.
I appreciate this love for Fiona because she was also my favorite character in the Archie series, despite being a villain, her arks and complications with her self worth made it somewhat relatable. and to answer your question in the end, I would love a deep dive of Mina Mongoose, she was also one of my favorite characters as a kid. She was also one of my all time favorites as a kid. I miss her so much ;m;
I really like these videos. It really shows an appreciation for Archie that goes beyond your typical ramble of how weird or messy it got. As a fan of IDW, these videos really make me understand and appreciate their predecessor and what made so many people love it. I'd love to see a video on Shard someday. From the limited knowledge I have on Archie, he's definitely among my favorites.
In all honesty, if there was someone I could bring back to the idw comics from the villians group of pre genisis wave, it would be Fiona Fox. To me, her character and how she pretty much acted. Lashing out at everyone and kinda deciding she would be better off hurting others that did care about her and wanted to think the best of her cause she had issues with herself made me really not like her growing up( still dont care for her all that much). I would like to explore that more..like i wish she could come back and work with surge and kit and they just stay a team who do whatever they want and just learn to start loving themselves and working towards just being happier versions of themselves. Maybe anti heroes for them all at the end of the day that do what they want, clash with both sides. ( maybe as a bonus add breezy as well and they are her freelance workers and they are actually a functional family that can bond over what had happened to all of them growing up or just life experiences.)
Archie Silver will forever be my favourite cause it made his one off story an arc that tied back into the greater plot, but still had him beaten down for accusing everyone of being a traitor, so it would be cool to see you talk about him next. On that note as well i think covering the general Mecha Sally arc would be super cool cause it had such ramifications on everyone and the political sphere in knothole, which is facsinating for a sonic comic.
Honestly, I thought that her relationship with Sonic wasn't all that bad prior to her betrayal, I honestly kinda hated how outta nowhere here betrayal felt considering she actually forgave Sonic for the whole thing of leaving her, recognizing it as a mistake. I feel like Ian Flynn's writing of Fiona turning into a villain is highly overrated because her being a villain makes no sense. Her being an anti-hero? That'd make sense because she's not your perfect lawful good kinda hero due to the darker side she did develop from her captivity but not a villain. And, as such, I see her as a character that could have been a good foil to Sonic's golden boy image, a character who helps him realize that he sometimes may have to do things that could be considered a little dark because that's how it would actually be when dealing with characters like Eggman but still be able to stay good overall. A good example of this would have been if, instead of making Fiona a villain, Flynn made her a double agent that works from the inside of the Suppression Squad to take them down and, while she might have to do some questionable things to hold her cover, she would ultimately still be on the side of good. She's just not the golden girl that Sally is. And I like that in a relationship with Sonic, a touch of reality that Sonic falls for because she can balance his idealism with pragmatism while he keeps her from becoming a brutalist or a nihilist by balancing her pragmatism with idealism. Personally, I will always see Fiona's villain arc as nonsensical and a waste of what would have been an amazing dynamic.
I never really liked her to begin with not only because she cheated but how she treated everyone else in Sonic's circle of friends, Tails deserves better and one his own age
I would love to see a video about the comics interpretation of tails. I feel like the only bad part of his character was the titan tails thing but I would like to see what u think of tails as a whole. Though he is in the entirety of the comic so the video would most likely need more effort than other characters.
@@KirbySonicTeamcan’t wait for it and thank you for the reply your sonic character analysis vid is what got me into Archie sonic so thank u very much for introducing me to this way past cool comic
I'd love to see a video on Silver. Archie's version of the character is the best version. I'd also love to see a video on Elias or even the secret freedom fighters as a whole. And a Geoffrey video would be cool too. I know you hate that skunk, but he's done so well by Flynn.
I think Geoffery st. John would be a great character to go over I like that they shipped him with a cat its almost like what they did in Looney tunes with a skunk and a cat
Hey there, folks! Hope you enjoy the video. Apologies for the wait on this one, but I've been spending time working on more non-TH-cam work recently. Either way, I'm definitely going to keep talking about Archie Sonic (and other stuff), even if my output has been slower.
Either way, thanks for watching, and remember to check out Scentbird if you're intersted, and use LOWART55 to get 55% off your first month at Scentbird: sbird.co/3LpeCX1
I commented before you🥶
And liked before you🥶
I was 1st view🥶
Thx for the video
Hey! You shouldn't support scentbird, the ceo of the company is a Hitler supporter
I think Fiona is so tied to Scourge because to her he is genuine. Genuinely an asshole, but as a result very predictable and thereby safer than waiting for the good guys to eventually "betray" her for not being 100% good.
That makes sense. I feel like Fiona needs someone who's more neutral like herself: she doesn't have to rely on them being a jerk but she also doesn't have to fear they'll turn on her for not living up to their ideals.
Definitely. I don't readily know who that might be, though...
Does not compute
Relatable. 10/10 realistic writing
fiona is dating scourge
Every Sonic.EXE story that begins with Tails getting brutally tortured and/or murdered wishes they can destroy him as badly as Fiona did.
fr💀💀💀
That is actually....true...huh...
*One Fiona slap*
Sonic.exe: *Dies*
Sally avenged him
At least they didn't break his heart.
I dunno. Say what you will about his various love interests, but I still think Sonic's worst relationship is with his writers, lol.
Sonic's worst relationship is with Sonic Team
damn you ken pen
Lmao
Sonic's worst relationship is with Sammy @@adcon00
Kinda like Spider-Man.
it really feels like Fiona and Scourge's relationship ends up being the exact mirror of what Sonic has with Amy. She gets acknowledged and helps out scourge a lot but he still sidelines her while not completely killing the tension of "will they?" Its like the same kind of cat and mouse situation but toxic, which is appropriate for Scourge
When you consider it as a Dark Reflection of Sonic and Amy's relationship, you have to question if that relationship is even a good thing.
I mean, newer media related to Sonic has been trying to move away from that particular ship, and for good reason (Heck, Sonic Frontiers 'subtly' Lampshades it with Amy's boss fight song... Where the lyrics very much tells you what the problem is).
Of course, if Amy _and_ Sonic were allowed to Mature, then it would be a whole other story... But Sonic Team has pulled a "Breaking of the Fellowship", so I can see one of two outcomes, 1) Sonic and the other members goes on new seperate adventures with many more characters, or maybe even some old ones made to fit... Or 2) Sonic Team does a Copout and Reunites "The Fellowship" in the next game.
I’d say it’s more a mirror to Sonic and Sally’s relationship
@@rhymerlegend2717 Not really. Sonic and Sally's relationship around the time Fiona was introduced was rather solid.
Of course, years of constantly circling writers and many of those writers having a hatred for solid relationshops resulted in Sally and Sonic's relationship devolving into a bright hot mess.
I say "Hatred for solid relationships" in general because those same writers messed with Antoine and Bunnie's relationship, and Amy Rose and Sonic's relationship was _very_ unhealthy no matter which way you aimed it.
I am not even being biased. Many fan works have shown that Amy and Sonic _could_ work well together if they are well-written... But when it came down to brass tacks, most publishers can never seem to get SonAmy right, and make Amy come off as either deranged, delusional or uncaring of anyone's feelings aside from those she wants to make note of, or for Sonic to come off as just uncaring until it blows up in his face.
It is sad day when Fans write better than mainstream publishers in general.
@Victor-056 Amy's character arc in Adventure is that she has to become worthy to marry Sonic (who is a wild force bound to no one). Sonic as he is in the games is not someone who would stay in one place long-term or compromise himself/his interests for anyone not even Amy. This is a big difference from his Archie version (and other Western versions at that) who is bound to one kingdom in loyalties or at least works in the Freedom Fighters so it's easy enough to see how he could be with Sally.
Amy as she was envisioned circa Adventure is reckless and hyper and really goofy/wacky but still able to see redemption in anyone. The angle they tried in Boom upward with her isn't really in line with this.
Not quite considering the affection is reciprocal even if it is surface level. It's closer to sonic and mina
I love that Fiona consistently makes bad choices not because she doesn't know they're bad-instead, she projects her perception that do‑gooders are moral hypocrites onto anyone who tries to tell her she's making bad choices and then doubles down out of spite.
That’s what makes her pathetic.
It works so well because honestly, it's realistic. I see so many people around me who keep pouring their time and energy into decisions that are bad for them--bad jobs, bad relationships, bad life choices--who refuse to back out even when they know it's wrong. I suspect that so many hold on because to change would mean they were wrong previously, and it's just too hard to accept they were wrong for so long.
Ian Flynn did reveal that eventually, he wanted Fiona to realise her dependency on Scourge and their unhealthy relationship. This would lead her to betray Scourge and take over the Destructix.
Considering that Anti-Silver had been in the works around the time the comic was forced to reboot, with only concepts about him still shuffling around that all we know was that his name would have been Sterling - I have a feeling that Scourge getting betrayed by his girlfriend would have led him to encounter Anti-Shadow and Anti-Silver, sort of forming his own trio of villains.
It's speculation at best but it would have been SO COOL!
Even though I do like Scourge and Fiona as a couple. Ah well. That's what fan fics are for X3
I see this possibly being a bit like Surge an her creator where he haunts her till finally beating his ass makes to sounds stop in her head a bit like Knuckles when throwing a fecker off a Island
what would anti shadow be? “the weakest life-form?”
So she's just Harley Quinn. Riveting.
now that sonic archie online web-comic is a thing, that is now possible, considering that they're following the original ideas before the comic reboot
@@user-tq4hw2hb2j That depends on which Archie Sonic fan continuation you're looking at. I'm not particularly liking Archie Sonic Online, for one.
Video Title- "Sonic's WORST Girlfriend"
Video Contents- A spirited and compelling defense of a character I've only ever seen get dunked into the trash-can so hard the air-friction caused her fur to ignite.
She's his worst girlfriend, but not in the way you'd think!
@@dragonick2947oh
There's something strangely logical about someone with trust issues gravitating towards someone like Scourge. If you know for certain that you can't trust someone, then that becomes a sort of twisted form of trust.
well if you trust no one an an no one likes you why not latch onto a shield like the loud as frick person who is willing to do all
Scourge is a wildcard, yes, but his boundless need to stroke his own ego means he is also easier to string along than a puppet. Something Fiona has absolutely zero hesitation exploiting non-stop.
@@Jfrost9101 In a way, he's very predictable, and that's the next best thing to trustworthy for someone with severe trust issues, eh?
@@CantusTropus I've actually seen this happen in real life more times than I care to admit. People who have severe trust issues will never fully trust anyone because of the majority of the time they don't even love and trust themselves. Her being around scourge makes 100% sense because he is an unpredictable predictable person. What this essentially means is because of her insecurity she seeks to manipulate others as some form of control to make up for the fact that she doesn't trust anyone.
I'm actually very impressed about how well this character was written because it was realistic. Essentially she is her own worst enemy in all situations. Even if scourge were to change for the better a person like that would become very hurt because they were not the ones to directly inspire that change. It's funny as this is to say it takes a person with severe trust issues to fully comprehend another person with severe trust issues lol. I'm only laughing because at the very least some of us can suppress ours.
When you describe it like that, Fiona's accidental ending feels a lot like the ending of The Sopranos, where it's not necessarily that Tony died, but that Tony's going to spend every day of the rest of his life with that tension hanging over him and will never know peace.
Archie's take on Silver DEFINITELY needs a video, practically salvaged his whole character.
Dr. Finitevus and Mina would be good as well.
I agree, the stuff with his Traitor hunt and the Secret Freedom Fighters was great
Seconded about silver!!!
Dude, Dr. F was one of my favorite villains in all Sonic media! I think even more than Eggman himself! He was such a good foil to Knuckles. Even better when you remember Knuckles himself is basically responsible for Dr. Finitevus existing in the first place.
Praying for Mina Mongoose video... ❤
Not sure about Dr Fini. He kinda was explained in Knuckles’ video.
I do like the idea of "The girl saved herself and she turned out worse for it." Kinda funny in todays context in a meta sense flipping the whole empowerment thing on it's head, but I feel like it really emphasizes why some people that need help shouldn't be left behind. It's been a minute since I read that arc though so I will need to re-read to see how much of it was source or Ian recontextualizing.
I'm surprised that with the English script for Sonic Forces stating Sonic was held prisoner for six months and all, no one has done a fan story where they parallel that with what happened in Fiona's backstory. As far as we know, Sonic either assumed his friends were killed, don't know he's still alive or similarly to her, thought they've abandoned him.
@@rayvenkman2087nah, Sonic trush they and he KNOWS the minute that Eggman kills one of his friends HE WILL brag to Sonic with that stupid laugh and he did not do that yet.
You know, if it wasn’t for the mandate Sega has on Shadow, I can totally see him rebutting Fiona’s “You can’t count on anybody” with:
“That’s just what weak people say to give themselves a reason to keep running.”
I would pay cold hard cash to see that and Fiona’s reaction to it! 💵 💸💰💴
Hell, yeah! Or maybe he says something like "More like nobody can count on you."
Oh Ho! Yes! So Satisfyingly Savage! I Love It! 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
The "Mandates" are highly questionable at best, and completely made up at worst.
Not only are they designed to attack a specific part of the Sonic Fanbase, (such as denying the fact that Mobius is actually the Canon name to the Planet the Sonic series is set on, and was further used in the Sonic X anime, which makes it just _ONE_ example), but the origins of the Mandate came from Ian Flynn's blogs... And didn't have any photos or screenshots to provide proper evidence.
If it truly were a _proper_ mandate, it first and foremost would have come from Sega itself. You cannot just claim "NDA", seeing as the Mandates were supposedly penned to be _Public,_ meaning it was to be known by the public if they were real.
Second of all, the way the Mandates were stated to have been set up according to Ian Flynn, sounds too much like it was a plot taken from a Yakuza Drama. I mean, "I and my editor were taken to a dark room with a little table under a single light source, while a Sega Lawyer and a guy with a briefcase basically told us what to do from the darkness without showing their faces". This is paraphrasing of what Ian Flynn claimed had occurred when he was told of "The Mandates"... Which not only sounds unreal, but is downright daft.
And third, and this is the part that torpedoes the whole thing: Ian Flynn claims the Mandates he talks about were pennded by Sega of Japan and he keeps blaming _them_ for it... The problem is, Ian Flynn "Following the Mandates" _can't_ have come from Orders of Sega Of Japan.
You want to know why? Because Sega moved their Main HQ to California long before, effectively taking away Japan's powerbase over the Archie Comics. That means that Ian Flynn should have been saying it was from Sega of _AMERICA,_ not Sega of _JAPAN..._
...But instead, everytime "The Mandates" are brought up, Ian Flynn keeps blaming Sega of Japan... And _NEVER_ Sega of _America_ as he _should_ be doing if they were Real.
@@Victor-056actually the planet was NEVER named as "mobius" in actually canonic games, only as "earth" by eggman in one of the most famous cutscenes from sonic adventure 2 (being fair, that was in the english dub, and I don't know of he said the name of the planet in japanese)
☝️🤓
@@nicolasbernasconi7228I never said it was in the games, I said it was in _Sonic X,_ the _ANIME._
And yes, he called the World they came from in both English and Japan "Mobius".
Talking about the reboot always makes me sad. It's just so much more final and complete than any other reboot. Those characters aren't just gone or dead. They've been so thoroughly erased that they can't even be mentioned or even be memories to others in their own universe or the wider Sonic universe. True, uncompromised oblivion.
there's some short fan comics which slightly adapt to be made issues of Archie
an looking at them hurts Saffron doing jobs an the idea of Rouge not giving a dam what Fiona says while bad mouthing Scourge an her lifestyle hehe
Same. Sonic comics will literally never be the same as pre-SGW Archie. The Archie comics were what carried the franchise for years for me. Now it’s the movies. Everything else is just coming off as mediocre trying to be the best with varying levels of success.
Tbh there's a chance they're still there offscreen
Sonic remembered his parents and didn't act shocked to their death
So perhaps they're still there
There's also the theory that the reboot is a new multiverse
Separate from the old one
@@charmingmagican9821 I like that theory. I wonder how it could be explained though…
@@shadamyandsonamylover thanks
Everything around Scourge, including Fiona, feels like an encapsulation of Ian Flynn’s writing.
how also the plan was for her to kick him out by gaining independence in her self
A fun little detail I noticed while watching this video about Fiona's outfit after she joins Scourge is that while her clothes change to be more edgy/tuff/aggressive she still retains her cutesy yellow bow in her hair. It makes for a fun anachronism and also possible has some implications about her character.
I like to think it was a keepsake from her mother and that despite all her talk about not needing others deep down it's her parents she wants to rescue her.
@@Richforce1In my canon, that bow is her only link to her biological parents whom she knows nothing else about and was raised in an orphanage or by step parents who didn't think much of her.
And in a twist of irony, she finds out (Through Vector's skills) that her real parents didn't want to give her up but had to for her safety because they're involved with some real bad people which changes everything for her. Have the progenitor of all her problems be the actions of someone she never even met or had a connection to her past and that leads her to a babyface turn when she goes to avenge her parents.
Her past crimes haven't been wiped clean but there's no longer that resentment in her and honestly, Sonic (Especially if we're factoring in IDW Sonic) could do with another friend who's not hesitant to lay it thick with him like Shadow except they're on the same team when it comes to matters. Be the pragmatic one who's not afriad to tell it how it is and challenge the others like being the Kira Nerys to their Julian Bashir when it's warranted.
Deep down she's just a confused child.
You can’t help but feel bad for Fiona. Yes, she ended up being a terrible person, but that’s only because Robotnik, not Eggman, the original Robotnik, left her trapped, and Sonic and co never found her, leaving her to believe they abandoned her, and causing her to the dark side, maybe if they had found her, she would’ve been her old self.
Thing is their rescue attempt went to crud because of the Power Gem Ray took out of the machine that powered the base, That lead to Ray being trapped in another zone while it took Sonic and Mighty out of the base when they tried to get Ray. It was a circumstances that the three of them couldn't control. Sonic is one to never leave a man behind and prefer to get in and out with his buds. That doesn't mean he and the others chose to abandon her, but the rescue attempt was a disaster that ended with Eggman getting away.
@@leon4000 Dang. That sucks. One can only wonder what would’ve happened if things had gone differently.
@@TheSFMWonderer And guess what? Mighty told this story to Fiona Fox during his quest to find Ray in the Knuckles comics. Fiona was with Nic the Weasel to find treasure that was the Power Gem and they encountered Mighty who came along and he talked to her about what happened with their rescue attempt for her that was botched. Ultimately Mighty found Ray and with assistance with Fiona and Nic managed to save Ray from being trapped in the zone he was trapped in ever since the botched rescue attempt.
Despite hearing things from her former rescuer himself, Fiona still did what she did.
@@leon4000 Guess she ended up needing an excuse in the end to justify her terrible behavior later on.
@@TheSFMWonderer Her backstory did include her issues of abandonment, all due to circumstances she never really thought outside the box. At least Sonic, Mighty, and Ray tried to save her, and Sonic being a boyfriend with her for a time at least would have made up for the blunder that left her and Ray in the circumstances they were in. After she had met up with the Evil Sonic who ultimately became Scourge for a time, she made up her mind to give in to her worst self, despite knowing Sonic and his sacrifice that left him in space far from home for an entire year and had to go all out to get back to Earth and Tails who she knew had a crush on her and played with his heart. She projects her feelings of abandonment into anything, any time someone calls her out on her mistakes. Sonic felt remorse for his failures and tries to reflect and make amends. But she sees everyone as someone who will ultimately hurt her, betray her, and leave her.
Yet she does a lot for Scourge who hardly treats her like a Queen. Eventually, it would lead to her to one day turn on Scourge, who flaws should have been apparent to her sooner that their relationship is toxic.
One of the greatest moments in all of archie sonic for me was when Sally walkes straight up to Fiona and GUT CHECKS HER.
Should’ve had that panel in this retrospective haha Sally is a badass. I’m so glad they got back together before the reboot.
@@shadamyandsonamylover This video is a 15 minute defense of her character and about how she's a far more sympathetic and sad character and this is the contribution to the discussion yall have.
@@MrSandMan961 I’ve left other comments on the actual retrospective. His videos are amazing. I can leave other comments aside from how good the video was.
I didn't read the comics what's the context behind it? Was Fiona being a homewrecker and trying to seduce her boyfriend?
@Firguy it was honestly very weird she was trying to negotiate a collaboration and tried appealing to Tails. It was a very controversial scene cause while it can be argued she deserved it the specific thing she was doing at that time wasn't that big a deal so a lot of people were confused why it made Sally that angry.
Man. Poor little Tails he always suffers so much, from being bullied almost his whole life. To the Fiona Situation, Then his whole arc in Frontiers about Self-Doubt. Dont even get me started on the EXE Games.
Edit: I just remembered about Cosmo’s death (WHICH BY THE WAY WAS CAUSED BY TAILS) and Tails’ uselessness from Colors to Forces. GIVE OUR YELLOW BOY MORE RESPECT.
don't forget how useless he became from Colors to Forces
@@woobgamer5210Also.
Bro sonic.exe is canon which mwans tails canonically died
The suffering tails went through is crazy
@@Youmustdierghtnowbruh sonic.exe ain't canon
@@luigibigbro "everything is canon" -i forgor who
Idk if thats a good argument but if its not
I'll come for more arguments
Actually, Fiona wasn't left behind they almost saved her but Robotnik got away with her because Mighty started tearing up the place once Ray disappeared into a pocket-zone. Fiona was just looking for someone to blame.
It’s natural to blame someone when you are not freed when everyone else is. When the literal hero of the planet is there no less.
@@shadamyandsonamylover Sonic failed to save Hope Kintobor’s family but she didn’t blame him.
@@samuelrodriguez9801 okay? Just because it’s natural doesnt mean everyone does it. Hope is shown to be more forgiving than others.
I think that was reconned later. It's a weird hiccup in her orgins where later they just say Sonic and Mighty left her behind. She's literally talking TO Sonic about it and he doesn't correct her. Ironically enough this wasn't a retcon by Ian.
@@MrSandMan961 The panel references the issue of Knuckles the Echidna and says that it wasn’t his fault though.
I could’ve sworn Ian said there might’ve been plans for Fiona to eventually leave Scourge’s side and stand on her own like that certain line seems to imply. Might be misremembering though.
another comment said that bits floating around make it possible that Scourge would meet anti Silver after she leaves which would be quite something
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 I saw the comment, I had no idea about Fiona taking over the Destructix (thought she would’ve left on her own) and Anti-Silver. That all sounds pretty interesting.
Shard the Metal Sonic, literally the reason I got into the archie comics, and also literally 1 page of Shard's banter with Nicole got me into my early shipping phase.
Shards death was tragic and I mourn every day that shardcole ended so early.
i really want idw to introduce some sort of good metal sonic. maybe tie it in with the mr tinker stuff
@@N_K_rome Isnt technically Mecha Sonic the good version of Metal?
@@squidboilukas i mean… kinda
Too bad the ship between Shard and Nicole gets zero support. I've seen Nicole get paired with Sonic and Sally which I can understand but they both are sidelined. It's always the annoying fox kid
I genuinely cannot believe a side of the fandom hates Sally because she dated sonic even though she treated him amazingly but completely ignore Fiona when she cheated on sonic, kicked tails at his most vulnerable moment, betrayed the freedom fighters, and she was just a horrible person in general. I haven’t read the comics in a while so I don’t remember if she did even worse things, but anyways she does not get enough hate. If she has 100 haters, I’m one of them. If She has 1, it’s me. If she has 0, I’m dead.
did you watch the video or XD
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 I was 2 minutes in when commenting this and had to let it out 😭
@@AmyRoseReal this is why STH fandom is so hard to be in xd
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 I watched the video, and I still agree with them. Fiona irks me to no end.
Sally actually slapped Sonic in one issue......
Oh and there are plenty of people who hate Fiona for what she's done (including myself)
2:57 That aint Scourge, thats Urge
No one’s laughing btw
I feel like if Fiona was in the IDW Universe during the Metal Virus arc, Amy would throw her into a horde of zombots, no hesitation
lol 😂
I like to imagine she just yeets her off into the horde kinda like how quicksilver thrown that couple that one time in the mansion
lmao she would force sonic to infect her immediately
"This b!tch empty! YEET!" - Amy yeeting Fiona to the Zombots.
Of course, it wouldn’t kill her. She’d be back for revenge shortly thereafter.
We NEED a Snively video or a Geoffrey video. Snively was a super interesting character and def laid the groundwork for some IDW characters (Dr. Starline)
yes sir...there should be a video about Snively
@EntityEntity Starline is obviously a stand-in for post-reboot Snively (who was a G.U.N. scientist who idolized Eggman and wasn't his nephew).
I definitely think of all the original characters, Antoine or Julie-Su are deserving of the spotlight next
Antoine goes through so many ups and downs during the run of the comics, going from a joke to a hero, I think he deserves to be covered
Julie-Su however is interesting for an entirely different reason, she’s not only a character who (basic summary) turned on her entire clan to end up fighting against them, she also has one of the most interesting relationships in the form of her and Knuckles, I know it got covered a bit here and there but I would love to see her get a full dedicated video someday
I started out just loving her for her leather outfit and cool ass attitude, but now I love her for more haha, she’s genuinely my favourite sonic character
Mine too
There's a small contingent of people that really wished Fiona stayed on the straight and narrow, but I think this "villain arc" of hers was inevitable. She was constantly being second guessed and harrassed by her colleagues every step of the way, and Sonic being her rock to cling to eventually crumbled.
I could see her endgame being the leader of the Destructix and basically being a girl who likes to get her hands dirty to get the job done. Maybe one day she'll apologize to Tails though, because he really didn't deserve what she dished out. But it should the LAST apology IMHO.
Anyways, I'd say Julie-Su, or Mighty for the next one, because both have REALLY compelling arcs in the comic that could easily fill a video Lowart👍🏾
My issue with her turning evil is really just how much continuity Ian ignored when writing it. Like Fiona as seen in her tought bubbles had forgiven Sonic after his sacrifice in 125, she had made it clear Evil-Sonic in play-la-playa was digusting her and we saw in other internal thoughts that she was genuin about her stance to being good.
The "tied to a shaddy past" at this point fell like a drop of a reason on a hot stone while all Scourge romance stuff happened off-sceen and directly contradicted what was stated before.
Fionas heel turn was rushed and lacking good build up that was actually believeable if you look at the bigger picture.
Straightforward, Elias Acorn, i love him
He's the only character that when Ian took over he only had to push Elias MORE into the spotlight. Maybe Penders doesn't really thinking about him at all and that's what fascinates me a lot about him too.
Elias is Ken Penders greatest creation because he didn't really care about him.
I only owned a handful of Archie Sonic issues when I was a kid, but I distinctly remember the impression Archie Silver made on me when I read Sonic Universe: 30 Years Later. I was struck by how different in temperament this cold, stoic hedgehog was from the Silver I knew from the games, only to realize that his attitude was merely a facade. I now consider this facade to be a central aspect of Silver’s character in the Archie Comics, and even informs his appearances in the IDW comics and games (Forces in particular). I’d love to see a video really diving into the nuance that Archie Silver has to offer.
Rotor is a video I’ve been anticipating. I’m hoping he can finally graduate from “this guy.”
Naugus would also make a good one, as with Jeffery, Elias, and Silver
I wanna see a video on Dulcy, she’s my favorite Sonic character. I think she’s funny, arguably. But seriously, I’d like to see a video just about Snively. His rise to power and his pathetic end could make for a compelling video
Dealing with Dulcy would require us to acknowledge that one storyline where her (also a dragon) boyfriend physically abused her, though (yes, that happened).
I like to think he'd have had a spot of hope where he thinks Regina is busting him out only for it to turn out to be Shadow with Hope Kintobor by his side and she'd just be "hello 'brother', my friend and I are here to bring you back to New Mobotropolis so you can talk to them about your war crimes."
I wanna see tails next, both to round out team sonic and talk more about his dynamic with Archie Sonic and how he becomes a hero of his own
Fiona is one of those characters you would believe being created later in the series, but her debute is actually really early. Its just like breezie who even was in the adventures of sonic the hedgehog tv series and later being the owner of a casino/fight club way way later in the comics. Hard to believe that both of them were technically robots at one point. (yes I know that the robot fiona was just a clone of the original, breezie technically still is a robot I believe)
I’m fascinated to see your take on the Stinky Man himself - Geoffrey is a notoriously hated character, for good reason, but I couldn’t help but get drawn into his story in the Flynn era. It reframed a lot about him, and damn it I’ve actually felt some sympathy for the horrible, stinky man
Agree I wasn’t completely happy how he kiss sally acorn I mean seriously it’s absolutely disgusting and not to mention he was an absolute traitor to everybody including the freedom fighters
Penders' fricking self-insert OC. Whenever there's one of these in a group, and they have an anthropomorphic animal character, you always find out it's a freaking skunk. Always a skunk!
I can't wait for your review of Geoffrey St.John. Like Fiona he went from a completely forgettable C lister to my personal favorite Sonic character. A guy defined by his moral compromises in service to ideals and who followed his ideals without examining where they lead him until it was too late. A guy who put abstract ideas over the actual people in his life and step by step walked into an ever tightening noose.
Add on to the fact how visceral of a reaction some comic fans have towards him is extra fun.
That is partially Penders's fault for... Making sure we know a bit too much
@@firepuppies4086 Which I never quiet bought for two reasons;
1. Pender's said what he said after he was no longer writing for the comic so it has no more impact on the actual canon then if I'd said it
2. The argument that Geoffrey is an adult and Sally is a child always has felt to me like a mirror image of the argument that the character who looks like a child but is actually a 1,000 year old witch so it's not creepy for an adult to romance them because the author said so. Sally and Geoffrey are both visually in the same age bracket of the three that exist in the archie verse that of child, adult and old. We also see that Sally, Sonic and Geoffrey and the rest of the freedom fighters (besides Tails) for that matter are all emotionally about as mature as each other. So all the visual and narrative information we have is that Geoffrey and Sally are on the same level. If the canon had said Geoffrey and Sonic or Antoine were all the same age that wouldn't have struck me as incongruent with his characterization. It's just declared a bizarre Penderism that is best left by the wayside.
Lol Geoffrey St John. What a name.
@@fremenchips If I may. When Geoffrey was first introduced (back when the comics was basically an extension of SatAM), most characters didn't really had a defined age. I think it was Karl Bollers (he and Ken infamously HATED each other, which sort of lead to an retcon war between them) that gave the characters defined ages and had him marry Hershey.
I mean, look at Antoine; he had a crush on Sally and he's confirmed to have been 18 (issue 46 has the ages of some characters confirmed in the letters and Geoffrey isn't one of them).
@@SaiyanGamer95 Thanks mate. You just explained a Million things that kept bothering me about _WHY_ Archie Comics was so rife with all those Retcons. The fact that Archie thought it was a good idea to put two people who hate each other's guts in the same room, was a ticking timebomb in and of itself.
The thing is that Fiona Fox's origin actually doesn't go back to the Knuckles comics it goes back to Sonic 28 and the two parter that would lead into the Tails Mini series. Cause you want to know why Tails had such a crush on Fiona (and it's not just because she's a literal fox) it's because he fell for a robot duplicate of her that Eggman had around that he tried using to get rid of Tails which didn't work and the robot wound up rusting in the ocean and couldn't move. Mike Gallagher made the two parter as this goofy little story to tie into the Tails Mini Story and didn't really have any plans on doing anything else with Fiona who within the narrative, Robotnick literally called a macguffin. However because of how she looked and how the story was framed people really wanted more of Fiona. They wanted this robot to be fixed, become Tails girlfriend or maybe have Tails find the actual Fiona (since with these robo replicants you needed an original to make a copy of) and have the two get together. Like there was actually a fair amount of requests for this character to come back but I don't think ANYONE on the writing team ever got why. Which is why Ken Penders brought her back just off handidly in the Knuckles back up to tie into a Sega Sonic tie in and then later she got brought back more properly in the comics but... yeah not as fans wanted. Hell after she starts dating Sonic before the Flynn run there's a bit where Fiona tells Tails "hey that robot you fell in love me wasn't me I don't feel that way for you" that feels like it was spitting in fan's faces of what they originally wanted from Fiona.
Which is why I always found the idea that people preferred the "classic" organic Fiona and didn't like what Flynn did with her baffling since as Lowart pointed out, this was a very inconsistent boring character just dating Sonic.... because. Flynn actually made her interesting and yeah I like Lowart really laying down why that is. I do feel she and Scrouge do have somewhat of an actual relationship and he isn't just fully using her but yeah it is clear Fioana's talk of independence and not wanting to get betrayed again do hide this deeper insecurity as well and I did like how that played out and wished we got more of that as felt like there was more done with her we'll sadly never get to see. But yeah this is a good vid really focusing on those key moments of her character.
As for who I'd personally want next I kind of want one on Lien Da as honestly though I did actually like what bits Penders had of her she was another character done better by Flynn and yeah that'd be a fun one to talk about.
...and now I want to see Fiona vs Robo-Fiona.
Yeah I was honestly surprised he didn’t talk about her actual origin story. Do I smell a fake fan?! 🤔
Jk but yeah I was surprised. The love drama which eventually leads to the “sibling” drama between Sonic and tails is one of my all time favorites.
@@shadamyandsonamylover I think Lowart may want to save that for when he talks more indepth about the Sonic and Tails fight over their friendship as that seems like an arc he probably wants to dedicate a video about so discussing Automatic Fiona may be worth delving in there not here.
"They wanted this robot to be fixed, become Tails girlfriend or maybe have Tails find the actual Fiona"
Yup, sounds pretty accurate to my hopes as a 10-year-old in the mid-90s (minus the parts where I had hopes to become a writer for Archie Comics myself so I could fulfill some wild, fanfic-tier aspirations with the pair....... I won't get into it). Wasn't aware that Archie was receiving a ton of fan letters on the subject, but nice to see I wasn't alone.
Scourge's jailbreak story satisfied baby me's need for edginess, so Fiona was a favorite of mine
A lot of people hated Fiona’s snap in change of direction. As they saw it as Ian giving up with Fiona and completely changing her character.
Ian did a lot of course correction for the books when he started. For the most part, I think he did a good job with a lot of the characters going out in a blaze of glory (Locke, Sir Connery, Tommy, etc). Fiona though... she deserved better than a sudden 180.
Honestly making her a villain gave from more depth and personality. Much better than what Kenders had planned for her.
@@darknessrising2453 Same
@@darknessrising2453 Sucking off Ian as usual, Alphamon? No surprise there.
@@MetalWeebChaos Ian is only really good at improving characters made by other people... Make him write wholesale plots from barebones, or try to have him improve a character he doesn't like, and he will do a bad job.
Yeah, Ian can claim "I had this idea for this character" all he likes, but I have noticed Ian Flynn keeps changing his narrative as and when he feels like it. If the story was bad, he will claim "I had this idea, but the execs didn't approve", but if the story was _good,_ he will take all the credit without telling us _who_ gave him the idea.
He acted that way during the whole fiasco with the Zombot Arc and how Shadow went out like a Moron... Keep in mind that The Mandates Ian likes to harp on about _Don't_ say "You have to write Shadow as an Edgelord", and Ian Flynn tends to write Shadow as an Edgelord.
I cannot really trust what Ian Flynn says half the time as a result.
14:53
Well, since your asking, can we get a video on Hope Kintobor? I find her a fascinating character, especially near the end with her vow to restore the Kintobor name.
Its hilarious that she basically sat around in the background for years until somebody was like "Hey how about we actually use this Maria expy as a supporting character for Shadow?" Of course for them to do that they had to actually use Shadow after HE sat around in the background for years.
Bro I had no idea that you got Scourge to be this channel's official spokesman!
Fiona was always one of my favourite characters with her growing from good to bad and believing that she does not rely on anyone. Every interaction with her was always interesting from every character. I wish they brought her back.
Also you should definitely talk about Shard, "The Metal Sonic who was given a chance." Either him or Snively.
Now that I think of it, an Anti-Fiona wasn’t introduced was she?
That could’ve been interesting, I wonder how she’d have differed from the original, would she be inherently evil? Would she have turned good over time? There’d be a lot of interesting routes to take
Fiona's character and actions made me realize just how Tailsmo is a way better Tails ship then her and him since Cosmo and Tails lifts each others up when they're at their lowest point and encourage each other to do their best as well as mutual love and respect for them both this is why i adore and love Tailsmo to this day, why i believe is a interesting and better pairing for Tails
i also would love to see scenario where Tails and Cosmo crossed paths with Fiona and Fiona trying to mess with them mainly Tails to try and get under his skin
I think the other reason tailsmo worked so well and why so many people loved that relationship, is because it was real and genuine. It wasn’t two characters plucked by the fan base and put together but a writing team who over the course of dozens of episodes wrote how two characters would fall in love, it’s one of the many reasons I want cosmo to come back as a character. She added a lot to tails, when he was doubting himself she was there, he didn’t need to look to sonic or deep in himself to realize how useful he was, all he had to do was look to his friend and realized how much she mattered and that’s all he needed to fight.
I’m unsure if we will ever see her again, I think maybe it’s a copyright issue. But if anything from sonic x is to be adapted into the modern canon. I’d love for cosmo to be that. Just give her and tails a happy ending this time.
Everytime I’ve gone back to watch sonic x I always cry at the ending
@@pranavanand7346 still is a good ship
@@pranavanand7346 which is funny when archie sonic did have sonic x characters at one point
Tails X Mina is also a good pairing as well
@MrReVersed until you realize in the original main archie timeline comic Tails is 8 and Mina is 16
Wasn't expecting a video on Fiona, but I will gladly take it. As she's easily one of my favorite villains in not just Archie Sonic, but in the franchise's history.
Oh my god is that the stinky man at the end there? Yes, talk about him! I loved what Ian did with the stinky man
I would love to see you do a video on the Destructix team as a whole, I think it is incredibly interesting how Ian Flynn was able to take basic and bland characters and make them interesting and more complex, becoming their own group with its own motives and agendas.
i never understood the people who didnt like how "fiona became evil out of nowhere" ,
before being evil she wasnt really an interesting character,
but now that she is a villain, she is an interesting character, just like Scourge, she is someone that i love to hate
Those things aren't related though. You don't have to like a character to be upset when they're obviously being mishandled for the sake of drama.
Sad thing is Ken admitted that Fiona was simply going to be Sonic’s rebound girl until he got tired of her and went back to Sally and after that she’d be heartbroken the same way Tails was…
So before Ian, Fiona wasn’t even a character… she was just “a character’s girlfriend”.
@@darknessrising2453 girlfriend*
Well that is rather easy because some people value continuity and character consistancy a great lot to stay engaged in a story.
So if Fiona's turn to evil makes no sense than will those people not go "how interesting" but "wait that doesn't make any sense tho"
@@rynobehnke8289
I refer you to THE ENTIRE VIDEO up above.
I'd love to see a video on King Max next.
Oddly enough, as much as I would love to see Shard and Elias, I feel like it wouldn't feel right to look at them so soon since their highlights are so late in the comic.
Ian seems like a very interesting guy to me, his way of writing (about existing material) is to see and recognize inconsistencies and try to put together a character arc around it.
He did the same thing in Frontiers. In the case of Tails, some feel it was "some of the least immersive dialogue in the game", others say it fixed the character.
I? I feel like he didn't have much time to present this idea, it's good that Tails declares it, but I want to see it in action
I really don't like Ian's attepts with Tails and Amy in frontiers.
Amy makes no real sense as he goes way to much off his inner headcanon were all the heroes are a big friend groupe that sees each other on a weekly bases at the least (as that is how he has always written them in the comics and even routenly comes up with excuses in the IDW comics to treat them as such) and ignores that "long time no see" is such a often used phrase in the games because canonically do Sonic and his friends spend very little time between adventures as they are always off scattered across the world on there own adventures. As such makes Amy's big story about "bringing love to the world at the expance of not being with sonic" makes no sense as "not being around Sonic" is already her status quo.
Tails meanwhile is just a direct attempt to address all the critizim forces Tails recieved which fails in 2 different ways one of which being Ian's own fault. The Former is as the Comics are now canon did he already wrote the "Tails gets his shit back together" story in IDW Sonic Issue 1 and after that constantly showed Tails refound courge (like during all but the last seconds of Metal Virus, Battle for Angle Island or Zeti Hunt)
While the other problem being that in his desperate attempt to address the fans did he ignore that the problem he tried to address from Sonic Forces was already resolved in Sonic Forces as even if it was terribly written was Tails story in Forces that his time with Classic Sonic gave him his confidence back which is why he stands with the sonics and the OC together before the final boss.
All of this leads to him unessarily doing a repeat of Sonic Adventure 1's story arc for Tails that was unneeded, due to gameplay limitation worse than the original SA1 version and causes continuity problems with the comics he wrote.
These videos legitimately make me wanna reread archie sonic, also the fact you compose character themes for these is insane, that Fiona theme slaps
I'm more sad we never got any follow up on Nicolette Weasal. Fiona first and stable partner yet we have no ideal when or why Fiona left, sure Nic might have left her but we don't actually know for sure. It would have been interesting hearing her side of the story. Apparently the reason Nic never came back sooner was because Ian Flynn didn't like her. Not that I can't understand why but that's still a poor excuse, considering her potential going forward.
Normally, I’m the type of person who ALWAYS skip the sponsership. But in these videos? I never skip em’ because they’re really funny
Also making the thumbnail for this video a clickbait that looks like it'll be trashtalking Fiona while also invoking that panel of Sally punching her that her haters are weird about and then making the video a 15 minute impassioned defense of her and not having said panel in the video at all is incredibly funny. You gotem.
I know you’re probably getting loads of requests for these two, but seeing your coverage on Shard or Nicole would be a dream come true!
I need to hear about the Rise, Fall, and Redemption of Antoine De'Charlotte
She littreally a opps to her own verse haha
anti fiona must be a good guy greg in comparison
@@ORLY911 anti fiona musta been the least sneakiest bih ever
@@ORLY911I wouldn’t mind her (Anti-Fiona) being loyal af and not afraid to be a leader and express her vulnerabilities and dependencies, yet still a bad guy.
@@user-tw3rh9po4t Fiona Fox is a good person who was molded into being bad. Anti-Fiona is a bad person molded into being good =)
@@MrSandMan961Uhhhhh
Yoo. I’m running a Sonic D&D campaign based on the Archie comics, so these videos help me with the research of and about the characters and/or places whenever I need a refresher. Much appreciated and keep up the good work as always!
Woah hey, I didn’t expect this. Fiona was always a personal favorite character in the comic for me, which was often an unpopular opinion to have back when the comic was still going, heh. I can’t understate how much people *hated* her after she slapped Tails in 172. Even after the comic rebooted, I remember back in the day having to convince my fellow teammates at Archie Sonic Online to even consider doing more stories focused on her since no one wanted to touch it, lol. Seems like a good slap is always a sure way to make enemies in the Sonic fandom, haha.
Thanks for explaining a bunch of the reasons I enjoy her as a character though. It’s nice to finally see some positive recognition of what Ian was able to do with her :)
You should always love a good villain. And Fiona is just that. I love her so much. I remember reading that issue in the car where she slapped tails. I read that issue over and over and over again and could not get over how giddy I felt over the drama lol
I miss drama in my Sonic comics. IDW needs to step it up…
If you need more pro-Fiona teammates I've been rotating this character in my mind since I was 16 I've legit assumed I was her biggest and only fan until now.
@@shadamyandsonamylover drama cant really happen, our cast of characters are way too close to ever have problems again
@@woobgamer5210 sigh. I miss the old days more every day. At least we have the movies now. They seem to be the only good characterization (with good models lol)
We are so back
I’d like to see an Archie Tails video, specifically a video covering the House of Cards story.
Not sure what Ken wanted to do with Fiona, but Ian certainly had plans doing a 180 on her character. Doing that change gained her popularity while introducing Bean and Bark supporting that storyboard he was cooking for Fiona.
Now that it's finally out, you HAVE to talk about the Lara-Su Chronicles.
First off Todo in the intro! Good taste!
Real excited to see Thrash in the shilouettes. I wish more people talked about him cause he was such a compelling antagonist. Someone who despite doing something irredeemably terrible still had a lot of tragedy to his character.
Some characters I think would make good videos
Lien-Da - She got such a glow up in Flynn's run! I especially like how she falls further into villainy while Dimitri tries to seek redemption
Beauregard Rabbot - Not only was he a great way to bring the Sandblasters back as villains but his whole dilemma had a lot of nuance I'd never expect out of a Sonic comic
Elias - Poor guy just can't catch a break in Flynn's run... would also be a great video to bring up a special surprise returnee
Antoine - The Geoffrey trial issue alone could get its own video
Eclipse - Reboot character but he's one of my fave Sonic characters period. He's the perfect antagonist for Shadow and I love how he feels so similar to SA2 Shadow. His conflict between wanting to avenge the Black Arms but still caring about Shadow really sold me on his character arc.
I vote for a Snively video. That dude has been through it all, and was there since the beginning. THE MAN PUT TRACKERS IN HIS INDIVIDUAL HAIRS!
Metal Sonic is really one of my fav written characters under Ian and that moment in IDW with Metal Virus is really heart breaking.
Really looking forward to the video where you talk about Geoffrey St. John. Flynn was able to turn one of the worst characters of the early Archie into one of the best.
I'd personally love an analysis of Silver. He might've been my favourite character pre-reboot.
If I had to suggest a video on anyone, it'd be Bunnie, the lead character who never really got to BE a lead character. In SatAM, or even Archie pre and post reboot, she was a mountain of potential, who never really got that solid break, forced much like Antoine to take up supporting role for most of her existence. She's a great character and I think she'd make for an even greater character study in your usual manner.
This feels like every tv show I ever seen with this kind of plot.
We'll get to silver eventually and maybe Geoffrey too, so instead, I wanna see you go over Rotor in greater detail. Mostly because I always enjoyed him despite how much he was mostly in the background.
Man, that girl caused both Sonic and Tails to fight each other. Also, Sonic dated Fiona so Tails would give up on her. Sonic is the biggest player in Mobius that you can do a parody of(Mombo no.5) of all the girls he has dated.
It goes to illustrate just how blurry the line between him and Scourge is.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 Sonic actually cared about his Girlfriends, Scourge didn't.
@@geoffreyrichards6079wouldve loved to see that get played more. Have scourge actually get under Sonic’s skin like he did in those issues. But maybe Sonic actually ends up doing something he regrets. Wouldve been interesting.
@@samuelrodriguez9801 That’s basically where the line can be defined between them. But if push ever came to shove, either one could easily become like the other.
A little bit of Fiona in my life
A little bit of Bunny by my side
A little bit of Rouge's all I need
A little bit of Mina's what I see
A little bit of Sally in the sun
A little bit of Amy all night long
A little bit of Blaze, here I am
A little bit of you makes me your hedgehog
I love how Lowart said he didn't want to be the "Archie Sonic Guy" only to Slowly become the Archie Sonic Guy.😂😂😂
Fiona Fox is such a sick charcter. I read through most of the Archie Comics and I absolutly fell in love with her. Just like every other amazing charcter we lost through the Reboot, I really hope that we *somehow* get her back in the comics one day, that Ian just *somehow* pulls it off.
Shard one of many Archie characters that we’re forgotten and my personal favorite from Archie
I appreciate this love for Fiona because she was also my favorite character in the Archie series, despite being a villain, her arks and complications with her self worth made it somewhat relatable.
and to answer your question in the end, I would love a deep dive of Mina Mongoose, she was also one of my favorite characters as a kid. She was also one of my all time favorites as a kid. I miss her so much ;m;
I really like these videos. It really shows an appreciation for Archie that goes beyond your typical ramble of how weird or messy it got. As a fan of IDW, these videos really make me understand and appreciate their predecessor and what made so many people love it.
I'd love to see a video on Shard someday. From the limited knowledge I have on Archie, he's definitely among my favorites.
HE BACK! Looking forward to more! I can’t wait for Shard to get covered
In all honesty, if there was someone I could bring back to the idw comics from the villians group of pre genisis wave, it would be Fiona Fox. To me, her character and how she pretty much acted. Lashing out at everyone and kinda deciding she would be better off hurting others that did care about her and wanted to think the best of her cause she had issues with herself made me really not like her growing up( still dont care for her all that much). I would like to explore that more..like i wish she could come back and work with surge and kit and they just stay a team who do whatever they want and just learn to start loving themselves and working towards just being happier versions of themselves. Maybe anti heroes for them all at the end of the day that do what they want, clash with both sides. ( maybe as a bonus add breezy as well and they are her freelance workers and they are actually a functional family that can bond over what had happened to all of them growing up or just life experiences.)
And here I was, just thinking "when could Lowart post a new video again?"
HE'S BACK!!
Beat me to it 😅
Archie Silver will forever be my favourite cause it made his one off story an arc that tied back into the greater plot, but still had him beaten down for accusing everyone of being a traitor, so it would be cool to see you talk about him next. On that note as well i think covering the general Mecha Sally arc would be super cool cause it had such ramifications on everyone and the political sphere in knothole, which is facsinating for a sonic comic.
Shard, Sally and the freedom fighters, in terms of who I'd like to see next.
SAY IT WITH ME EVERYONE!
IF TAILS GETS CURIOUS THINGS GET SERIOUS!!!
All your videos on the sonic comics have quickly become my new obsession. You deserve to have a bigger following!
Honestly, I thought that her relationship with Sonic wasn't all that bad prior to her betrayal, I honestly kinda hated how outta nowhere here betrayal felt considering she actually forgave Sonic for the whole thing of leaving her, recognizing it as a mistake. I feel like Ian Flynn's writing of Fiona turning into a villain is highly overrated because her being a villain makes no sense. Her being an anti-hero? That'd make sense because she's not your perfect lawful good kinda hero due to the darker side she did develop from her captivity but not a villain. And, as such, I see her as a character that could have been a good foil to Sonic's golden boy image, a character who helps him realize that he sometimes may have to do things that could be considered a little dark because that's how it would actually be when dealing with characters like Eggman but still be able to stay good overall. A good example of this would have been if, instead of making Fiona a villain, Flynn made her a double agent that works from the inside of the Suppression Squad to take them down and, while she might have to do some questionable things to hold her cover, she would ultimately still be on the side of good. She's just not the golden girl that Sally is. And I like that in a relationship with Sonic, a touch of reality that Sonic falls for because she can balance his idealism with pragmatism while he keeps her from becoming a brutalist or a nihilist by balancing her pragmatism with idealism. Personally, I will always see Fiona's villain arc as nonsensical and a waste of what would have been an amazing dynamic.
In conclusion:
Fiona - Indubitably a Bad Bitch, but a Bad Bitch that brings out the best in a Bad Boy
I never really liked her to begin with not only because she cheated but how she treated everyone else in Sonic's circle of friends, Tails deserves better and one his own age
I cannot wait for Geoffrey’s video. I know I’ll love hearing your take on him.
I would love to see a video about the comics interpretation of tails. I feel like the only bad part of his character was the titan tails thing but I would like to see what u think of tails as a whole. Though he is in the entirety of the comic so the video would most likely need more effort than other characters.
Tails is next
@@KirbySonicTeamcan’t wait for it and thank you for the reply your sonic character analysis vid is what got me into Archie sonic so thank u very much for introducing me to this way past cool comic
MY KING LOWART UPLOADED AND ITS SONIC IM ALL EARS ARISE MY UNDERLINGS
I often wonder where things would have gone if not for the reboot
You already touched on parts of it in the retrospective, but I'd love to hear an even deeper dive into Bunnie and Antoine
Honestly, I dunno if Metal Sonic has much representation in Archie Sonic- but I'd love to see an analaysis of him in the future!
I'd love to see a video on Silver. Archie's version of the character is the best version. I'd also love to see a video on Elias or even the secret freedom fighters as a whole. And a Geoffrey video would be cool too. I know you hate that skunk, but he's done so well by Flynn.
Great to have these Archie sonic videos back, I would love to see Silver
She became addicted to Scourge
And tails's worst love interest choice.
I think Geoffery st. John would be a great character to go over I like that they shipped him with a cat its almost like what they did in Looney tunes with a skunk and a cat
Shard is one of my favourite characters, I’d love for him to get some focus