Breakdown Of The Legend Magriel 1976
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Present day Backgammongalaxy.com Grandmaster Marc Olsen breaks down a chapter from the iconic "Bible of Backgammon" from 1976, and tries to analyze how deep Paul "X-22" Magriel's level of backgammon knowledge actually was.
The book Backgammon, was revolutionary back then, but by today's standards quite outdated and full of blunders. Follow along in this episode of backgammon history.
Make sure to check out Marc's books on Amazon:
- From Basics to badass.
- Pure Strategy.
- Cube Like a Boss.
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Grand Final - EDG vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WvObMc9VelI/mqdefault.jpg)
Spectacular job, Marc! I couldn't stop watching. I was THERE in 1976, already playing backgammon at a high level while learning from (and with) my BFF, "He Who Quacks." I perhaps knew Paul best during his later life, in particular playing, studying, and learning tournament POKER with him. Throughout our 40+ year relationship, though, talking (and out in the tournament world, playing) backgammon was ALWAYS part of our bond. When I wrote "Backgammon With The Champions" in the early 80s Paul had a huge influence. In fact, while I highlighted 22 players in the eleven "long" matches analyzed, Paul was the only player to appear TWICE. After his sad passing, I went back and ran all of the BGWTC matches through XG. Not surprising to me, Paul ranked not only first but first AND second -- both PRs in the THREES. No other player scored below 4 (one was close, but humility prevents me. . .) All that said, the Paul I knew would certainly have gotten the "clear from the rear" plays RIGHT even in the 70s. The 66 and 22 plays were both well understood by Mr. 22, even though his writing as correctly dissected by you contradicts this. One more historical note, back in those days a not yet but later to become a super-star player I spent lots of time with coined the phrase, "Clear from the rear and don't ask any questions." Hat tip to "Mr. Who" -- Kit Woolsey. BEEP! BEEP! Paul, if you are snooping on us, I miss you.
Thank you so much Kent, for your insightful comment!!! Actually, X22 DID get the 22 right, I realized today, by the help of some comments here in this video, that I had missed a sentence on the next page, which said that the superior move with 22 was indeed 13/11(2) 10/8(2), but 13/9(2) was played for instructional purposes! So he did get that one right!
Funny thing is, that I was actually contemplating in the video, that it was weird that he got this position so wrong, because other things he wrote would indicate that he was indeed aware of this concept: when a point is a liability when bearing in against contact. With the 66, he did get it wrong, but I think it was probably a position that he might have gotten right 50% of the time, this was a more subtle error, the idea of clearing the midpoint of spares, so you are ready to clear it next time.
By the way, I would love to get some of those old match files, and do some video analysis of the matches!
Marc, this is a nice video, and I really appreciate your explanations. But you did do Magriel a disservice. I have his Backgammon book (also 1st edition, but not signed :( ) and on page 67 where he plays the 22 that you describe in great detail, he DOES talk about an "alternate move". That alternate move is the correct one, and on the next page he actually says, "... the alternate move would be superior in an actual game; we use the inferior roll here simply to illustrate holding-game tactics."
Wauw, you are right, James! I re-read this chapter twice to make this video, and I don't know how I could have missed the content on these lines. I hope the video content will still be appreciated.
I'm only just 13 minutes into the video, and already I'm enjoying it immensely. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
just finished it. amen friend Ed :)
Awesome job Marc, perfect explanations and application of pure strategy!
Appreciate it Bob!
Fantastic video! Back in the 70's I learned the game from Magriel's book and books such as Barckley Cook's "Paradox and Probabilities (which I later learned had problems but I liked the fluid style). I'm just starting to get into the game again and really enjoy Backgammon Galaxy and now your videos. Put your book on my Amazon Wishlist just now.
How the hell did you see this video before it has been made public??? 😅 😂 🤣
@@BackgammonGalaxy he just put the clock's hands where they belong 😁 Great video, Marc!
All Marc’s books are great!
Paradoxes and Probabilities was my favourite backgammon book! Barclay Cooke was an expert at telling us what the best moves were but rarely gave any significant analysis as to why! :-)
Hey Marc, I watched lots of educational content on this channel already, but this video was by far the most helpful in developing a better understanding of backgammon strategy and tactics. Please please please do more of whole game analyses like this. You are awesome! :-)
Thank you Diggoar!
excellent job Marc ! keep going !
Thanks, will do!
FANTASTIC breakdown here Marc. This is why you are a MASTER!! Love this. Learned a lot of good stuff and refresher on other concepts. MORE like this please going forward. Very very valuable stuff. Rock on!!!
This is a truly magnificent interview. Bill Robertie and Marc Brockmann Olsen are two of the finest analysts (and competitors) ever to have written seriously about backgammon, and it is a great treat to listen to them share observations. Bill's remark that the person who has benefitted most from his writing is he himself recalls an ancient Latin proverb, "Docendo discimus" -- "We teach so that we, ourselves, may learn". An enormous thank you to both Marc and Bill. - Robert E. Stoller, co-founder, Anchorage [Alaska] Backgammon Club; Founding Sponsor, U S Backgammon Federation
I was talking to Magriel and he once told me: "In 1975 I was playing at a 7 PR while my opponents were playing at a 12"
I think that is very accurate. He was way ahead of his time, and his knowledge was immense.
@@BackgammonGalaxy He was also a really sweet guy. Gave me lots of coaching for free. He was super passionate about games and even more passionate about reading books.
Hi Marc, I was actually reading this chapter for the first time last week! I've just checked and for the 2-2 move, Magriel does actually mention the 13/11(2) 10/8(2) move as an alternative. He also says that it is superior to the 13/9(2) move.
Enjoyed video. I was at Phillips Exeter academy with Paul 1962-1964. He was all chess then. I played him a 100 game time match where he gave me 5 to 1 time odds. He won 52-48. At our boring graduation we played some double blindfold games to pass the time. He never made fun of my lesser play and was always joyful.
Not surprised the science of backgammon has advanced. Keep learning and growing, Marc.
Thanks for the elaborate explanation of why the 22 roll moving four checkers from 13/9 was a huge blunder. I hardly even thought about it before making that exact move believing erroneously that priming still had value here.
Great video Marc. More of these please!
Thanks! Will do!
Great stuff. It's interesting to see the comparison between Magriel's moves and what Marc and the bots would do, but for me the actual value of this video is not the comparison per se, but Marc's analysis of the concepts behind the recommended moves. One of the best tutorial videos I've seen!
Super valuable pro analysis. Tks Marc!
Thanks William!
Excellent stuff. You might find it interesting that Magriel's wife at that time complained to me (I was selling used copies on eBay) that she deserved part of the by-line and had written much of the book.
Great job, Marc...as usual. I love your graphics and more, I love your explanations. I also agree that your book "Badass" is terrific and I have recommended it and even given many away as prizes for quizzes at tournaments.
Thanks Phil! I hope you are well!
Another great video this one Marc. Those single blots are as slippery as eels! 👌
Yes they are! 😝
This is a pretty good idea that has been missing from the backgammon content scene. Looking at some famous matches old and new with some analysis. I don't even play chess but sometimes I watch those videos where they go over famous games from 50-60 years ago or whatnot.
Yeah, I agree! I am planning to go over some old legendary matches from the pre-bot era. /Marc from Galaxy
Always wanted to learn more advanced backgammon moves and stategies and this channel is great. Thank you
Happy to help! There are unlimited backgammon gold on this channel :)
Great Video Marc. Really enjoyed the breakdown
Possibly the best video you've done from my point of view. Although I played the game about ten times in Cambridge against some good opposition (high British Championship standard) in the early 1990s that is all until the last couple of months. So although I am reasonable and improving this really helped as it dealt with many concepts that I have been struggling with - and having played internationallly at chess I much prefer being a badass than a beginner!
Thanks a lot Andrew!!!
I think I saw him, on TV, years ago playing in a world poker match. Clearly, a genius.
I have this book, it has helped me quite a bit.Back in the day, I got started w/a Jacoby book.Some of the opening moves were a lot different then.
The only downside to all this amazing channel is the backgammon technology itself. I personally would be able to follow a lot better with animated chips! But appreciate the passion here
Excellent analysis.
Marc, you are producing the very best bg content, both in print and online. Would like to see your thoughts on middle to late game strategy and coming home (bearing in and off) against a backgame. Keep up the great work!!! Really appreciate it.
@PJ Macall - you need to watch Mochy's seminar on backgames, I think it's here on youtube.
Excellent content, I play a lot of chess so I'm trying to apply concepts from that game to backgammon. What you describe here about the structure of checkers and indirect influence makes a lot of sense in this regard!
That is great Luke. There are many similarities between the two games. I would say that chess is more heavy on the tactics, while backgammon is more heavy on the strategy. But they share the beauty of patterns and concepts.
Great explanation!
I bought that book back in 76 when it first came out. Still have it! I still think it's the best book on backgammon.
Next to yours of course! :)
@@rebeccalightbourn1143 😜
Rebecca, it's not the best anymore, not by some distance. I have it to and will never part with it but it's value to me now is mostly nostalgia.
Learning so much thanks a bunch.
Glad to hear it! I hope your Galaxy Rating will increase because of this! :)
your insight and the comparison between the bot play and the 70's play are very interesting, even though i think the purpose of the match in that chapter is to show a typical holding game. It seems to me that he steers into a holding game in the beginning of the game. IMHO Magriel would have not made that errors in the early game not even before the bots.
If you re-read the chapter, you will see his explanations and "true decision" on all the moves. He comments on which moves he believes is best. The game is valid as it is. There are moves in other chapters, where he explicitly say "the best move is X, but in this game the player chose Y".
@@BackgammonGalaxy fair enough. Nevertheless Magriel is a hero for many includind myself, so don't make him down too much for his 70's playing style at the time.... shoot on Cooks blot festivals instead :D
@@bad0beef I am a huge X22 fan as well... these videos are not mend to put him down, quite the contrary, it's to study the history and evolution of backgammon theory, and Magriel was one of the greatest theoreticians of the game ever! It is made with love and respect, I hope that shines through when watching the videos.
great video. very interesting to compare a game of a master from a previous generation to the computer, and how the computer has evolved the game. wish you had used a more visually friendly board and had checkers moving in the same direction as backgammon galaxy.
I moved the checkers in the direction that Magriel chose in his book :) And it happens to be in the other direction of Backgammon Galaxy :) It is a 2-d Extremegammon "backgammon galaxy" skin board... Is it not visually friendly? 🤔
It’s great analysis. I like more the analyses than playing matches. Maybe you could do video where you explain differences between moves? I don’t understand that numbers. And extreme gammon 2 deep tutorial
That's a good idea!
@@BackgammonGalaxy I’d love a tutorial on eXtreme Gammon and Marc you’re just the guy to do it!
I have your book also. Thanks for the video.
Love this 👍🏼
Excellent
Hi, Marc. I have this book and I am looking at page 59 now. Let`s go .
Fantastic!
@25:30 - Not only was it wrong to not clear the 9 point, but if he was trying to block blue from escaping by building up his own wall/prime, blue still had 4 extra spare checkers free and clear on the 12 and 14 points and had PLENTY of time to move them around the board and make blues home board even stronger to then hurt white later (if he hadnt hit immediately which he did), so even more important to clear now as White was way ahead in the race and timing was not in his favor to start priming late in the game. Its like he switched concepts mid game and forgot what was what :)
After correct play of 22 I think white would even have a cube as clearing the 11 has to be market loss and already up 40 pips!
Great analysis. But I still re-read and recommend X-22's classic. I have 1 of your book's also. I have not been able to get very far into it yet. Very tough to read for me.
From Basics to Badass, Pure Strategy and Cube Like a Boss are connected somehow, but have very different topics and content.
@@BackgammonGalaxy Marc I have two of you books and enjoy them. If you do another one would you consider making with thinker paper and cover stock? Thx
I am an older man but a new backgammon player. Please provide a source for the beginner to learn about the notation used by "Extreme Backgammon" to compare moves, explain "error rates", define "performance rating", etc. Thanks.
Feel free to ask in the "Backgammon News" Facebook group. Always many people ready to help there. And if you have questions about positions, then we can really recommend the "Backgammon Strategy" Facebook group.
Greg, it may help you to watch Rainer's backgammon here on youtube. He uses XG analysis in more ways than most people realise you can. Very friendly and helpful guy too, never too busy to answer an individual query. Do check out his channel.
Learned a lot from this video!! A couple of things:
1. For the 2-2 roll at 20:25 in the video, Magriel does point out in his book (page 68) that the superior move is indeed 13/11 and 10/8. He says he only continues with 13/9 to demonstrate holding tactics.
2. I've never used Extreme Backgammon before. At 20:25 in the video, where it has 13/9 in red, and to the right there is +0,619 and -0,230. What do these two positive and negative numbers mean?
3. Where can I get Extreme Backgammon?
Thank you so much again for this video! I am looking into your book!!
1. You are absolutely right, Nicole! I missed that comment from Magriel, where he actually says that 13/11(2) 10/8(2) is actually superior to the move played. 2. the number (-0,230) is the difference in equity between the move and the best move. The unit of Equity is points, so this means that you are giving away 0.23 points to your opponent in expected value by making this error. A blunder is an error of -0.080 or bigger, so this is a big blunder! 3. You can click on the Extremegammon icon on Backgammongalaxy.com and you will be re-directed to the website. You can also just play against real humans on backgammongalaxy.com and have the Extremegammon analysis for free in analysis mode. :) But Extremegammon is an amazing app.
@@BackgammonGalaxy Thank you for your explanations, and for explaining the blunders!! I do play on BackgammonGalaxy, but didn't know it was using Extremegammon. Cool! Is there a detailed mathematical breakdown of how the error rates are calculated?
How does won buy coins to play on the site I gave up trying to buy coins please put up a video on how to do it.
Will you make more quiz like those 22 problem?
Yes, we will try to make more quiz videos!
As someone just starting out with the game of backgammon, I bought Magriel's "Bible". A mistake? :-( And ist there a version of Basics to Badass in German?
At the moment there isn't :( But there should be!!
Is that a custom Galaxy XG board layout??
It is :) It will probably be part of an Extremegammon update soon.
Great job, Marс! It is sad that this is the only book that has been published in paper form in Russian.
We should get a translation of From Basics to Badass to Russian!!!
Marc, appreciate for your uploads!
The quality of the graphics of your Galaxy-XG board are very poor,
the checkers on top are sticking outta the board... dice are not same...cube is not the same...
I have made this design pixel-perfect to use for XG, including Galaxy-dice and Galaxy-cube.
If you want I can provide it to you.
Wauw thanks! Please send it to me and I will happily use it :-D
It’s actually Xavier from XG who made the board Marc is using :)
@@BackgammonGalaxy OK, yes I will, which email-address shall I send it..
@@BackgammonGalaxy th-cam.com/video/n-R6oLd_WP4/w-d-xo.html Video of Galaxy-XG-board, this is the old version, my newest design is even better with logo + dice as on playsite.
@@RainBG Thanks :-) You can send it to marc(at)backgammongalaxy(dot)com
I don't know about that move with the 2 and the 6. Why would you risk getting hit just to have one point potentially covered when the opponent had more than half of his base points covered and white seems already ahead in the race. At that stage i would have played much safer and stacked the 6 on the 2 point and try to win the race. He could regret it if he ended up getting hit but by that point he would be pretty screwed anyway if he got hit with 4 blue bases covered. But leaving yourself to a shot when you are ahead and nearly home seems crazy. In the end it was also one of those exposed outside points that lost him the game so why risk it when it wasn't necessary?
👍🎲🎲💰😎👊🍻
Magriel 5 criterias, bold vs safe are worth knowing .
Oh yes, I totally agree! That is a video waiting to happen!
Everyone gets the 66 play wrong
XG and Magriel
It's a pay now or pay later and it's cheapest now.
22/10+13/7(2)
Marc......with the early 53, why doesn’t white make the three point?