Fourth Vow vs Doppelgänger Guise Comparison on Forbidden Rite Pathfinder | Path of Exile
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This became my favorite POE channel!
I appreciate that a lot!
The true secret: the one with the best double corrupt your money can buy. Nice video
300 iq
Awesome content as always!
Great content mate, my favorite part POE is building up defensives and to play around them/theory craft. U just got a subscriber. Love the channel.
Glad to hear it!
thanks for the breakdown, i never got around to trying doppelganger's guise this league. forbidden rite pathfinder with fourth vow was what I used to kill ubers, it feels pretty cozy. I opted to get Divine Flesh from Mahuxotl's Machination and then use my timeless jewel slot for Tempered by War - that way you're only taking fire, chaos and physical damage, two of which are mitigated by armour. you just focus on stacking + max res for fire and chaos and you really start feeling unkillable (mahuxotl's machination also helps out a ton with those max reses via Everlasting Sacrifice). at about 40k armour w/ molten shell and arctic armour this setup was ignoring uber exarch balls and sirus beams (you still die super fast to sirus degens though).
Yep, that is one beefy setup!
sounds awesome man, do you have a PoB to share?
@@xXMaukiorXx I adapted 95% of it from uber dan's forbidden rite wander build: th-cam.com/video/Y_4TfqtvP4U/w-d-xo.html. it's a little wonky since replica sorrow of the divine + mahuxotl's makes your mana flicker up and down, but once you get used to it it's pretty chill
Problem with Mahuxotl is the utterly bonkers cost, though.
@@Ilyak1986 yeah, the price has gone up a ton unfortunately. when I bought mine a month ago it was 1 div, then when I sold it while messing around with different builds at the end of my time on the league it was over 5 divs.
High evasion with doppelganger and the hidden tech - crab barrier! Seems fun, does a ton of work vs physical dmg.
The more I think of it, the greatest threat most builds face with these fun chaos dmg mitigation strats is physical damage due to armor's innate problem with bigger hits. Adding in crab barriers really can take the sting out of those kinda problems with a small evasion mix.
Yeah, I think AotC is quite underrated atm, even if Spell Dodge isn't really a thing with how costly it is to cap. I do hope they change Acrobatics soon though - it should convert suppression into dodge at a 1% to 0.75% ratio so capped suppress would change to capped dodge if you take the keystone. No idea why they felt that capped spell dodge is worth 150% spell suppression, because even if the ratio was better, suppression would still be the stronger mod due to reliability.
Regardless though, AotC is great, and I think Determination is generally overrated so it should see some more use.
I tried using doppelganger in a medium to high end boneshatter Slayer over a very effective armour/evasion armour and i thought i would be able to sustain more trauma stacks, but i was wrong... But also, on a forbidden rite build, sustain is very important. Without a very high cast rate, doppelganger would probably feel better over the Fourth Vow. Guess it all depends on how much armour you can get.
Im commander Shepherd and this is my favorite POE channel on TH-cam
doppelganger is amazing with divine flesh you cover all bases. Phys chaos dmg reduction and elemental. Fourth vow or incandescent heart forces you to still work on phys mit with other mechanics.
still bad though, only viable first week of league
@@DanielyanAG nah its complete all rounder. with divine flesh you become tanky enough while with other chests and defensive setups you have to layer more defenses. Sure might be more ehp but also more investment that isnt needed for smooth sc playstyle.
@@DanielyanAG How does viability even go down later in the league? Do monsters secretly hit harder or something? What you really mean to say is that you have more money to spend later, but the whole point is that Doppelganger is good even with low investment. The game doesn't get any harder as the league goes on. I'd rather invest in something else like suppression on top
@Hannyabal doppelganger has 40% less chaos top roll. it's literally reducing divine flesh converted damage and one of the reason why its so good with divine flesh. so yeah its great allrounder since often its hard to work on both phys and ele dmg reduction.
@Hannyabal how is 40% of divine fleshes 50% ele dmg taken as chaos equal to 25% reduced damage ? looks like 20% to me 1k hit 500 as chaos and that part reduced by 200.
Would appreciate if we could have a small video on tempered by war, I'm having problems understanding how much tankirr it's actually making me
👍 I'm going to be making some videos on specific keystones soon, including some timeless jewel keystones and some of the underused ones on the passive tree. I'll do one on Tempered by War and the interactions/effectiveness
@@dreamcore_gg thank you, just left work to this, you made my day slightly better
@@marcodxd3631 Glad to hear that!
@@dreamcore_gg Just a caveat on the divine flesh/tempered by war setup is that it requires a Mahuxotl which is *obscenely* expensive. And according to Tenkiei, if you use eldritch battery, that moment you lose all your ES suddenly means you can't keep casting which is *painful*.
Please leave a РоВ with your video work so that the chat room and the community can refine your ideas and work wonders.
does the Regenerate mod work with 40% more regen multiplier of Untiring ascendancy notable?
also, can the healing effect stack? so if you get hit 3 times in one second, will you get 3 instances of "regenerage 10% of life over 1 second"?
one question regarding your closing statement.
you said that if we invest heavily into armour, the 4th vow will be better. are you sure?
after all, there is the mastery that lets us use 10% of armour to mitigate chaos damage. and armour has a sharp curve when it comes to deminishing returns. so if you have a decent chunk of armour, that mastery will give you almost as much effect as the 4th vow does. thats why unbreakable is so good after all.
and since doppelgänger gives us a 40% LESS multiplier to damage, that gets on top of it. so i would say, the more we invest into armour, the WEAKER the 4th vow becomes in comparison.
am i wrong?
Yes, the regen gets increased by Untiring, but the mod doesn't stack with itself, only once instance of 10% regen is active at once.
No, FV is absolutely stronger when investing in armour. Applying 100% of armour to a hit that has already been mitigated by resistance(in the case of DF, a hit of only 50% of the origin damage) often mitigates the hit by the full 90% damage reduction(80% reduction from resistance, then 90% reduction from armour), which is why FV is so good. Even if you took the 10% armour application mastery, and say this amount of armour was able to mitigate 50% of the damage, then you've still only mitigated 70% of the damage after the 40% less has been applied on top(80% reduction from resistance, then 50% from armour, then 40% less). 40% less damage taken is a very good modifier, but the main strength of Doppelganger is the recovery and the fact that the less taken modifier also applies to DoT, on top of having somewhat low investment mitigation against all physical damage.
@@dreamcore_gg does the damage mitigation happen before or after applying the armour?
you keep saying armour works better the lower the hit is. i heared people saying going beyond 50k armour isnt worth it cause it does almost nothing after that. but if we are talking lower, already mitigated damage, then the threshhold for neglible benefits would be even earlier right? so lets say i got 300k armour, how big would the difference be between counting all that armour and counting only 10% of it?
and we are only talking elemental damage here. if we are talking physical amage, then doppelgänger seems strictly better right? even armour stackers often have trouble dealing with stuff like shaper slam. but if you got 40% flat phys mitigation, and maybe fortify 20, then tanking that slam seems like a real possibility
(planning on building my first immortal char next league, so your channel and your input are absolutely invaluable to me. thanks for that)
@@dervakommtvonhinten517 I'm not sure where the 50k magic number came from, I suppose it's from Pathfinder Transcendence builds that typically got to 50k or around that amount. The difference with Transcendence is that armour loses its original property against physical damage, so you're only concerned with mitigating post-resistance hits.
Lets take 50k then for example, and a 5000 chaos damage hit. Both FV/DF and DG/DF/mastery setups mitigate this hit by 80% chaos resistance first, so 5000 * 0.2 = 1000. FV then applies 50k armour to the damage, mitigating 90% (1000 > 100) and the character takes 100 chaos damage. DG w/ mastery applies 5k armour to the damage, mitigating 50% (1000 > 500) then the 40% less is applied (500 > 300) and the character takes 300 chaos damage.
Now, what can be said about Doppelganger's less taken modifier is that its value increases sharply at extreme ends of the scale(ie. a hit that's so small that both setups would mitigate 90% via armour, or a hit that's so big that both setups mitigated much lower amounts via armour). In these fringe cases, a fixed less taken modifier is very powerful.
Physical damage though is FV's biggest weakness, and it's mostly why I recommend stacking a lot of armour, because you're using the body slot and cannot use coil/cloak etc. In a best case scenario you might be able to reach ~35% phys taken as chaos if you have helmet/mastery/shield, at which point the tankiness against physical damage increases a lot, but DG is generically very good against physical damage off the bat.
@@dreamcore_gg i think the magical 50k comes from molten shell cause thats the max effect of its damage mitigation.
the argument regarding extremes is why i used the example of a semi armour stacker. if we take 300k armour, then the difference between 300k armour beeing used vs 30k armour beeing used would be negligable and the 40% less multiplier would always make doppelgänger come out on top right?
@@dervakommtvonhinten517 Most of the time probably, but not always. Fe. Uber Sirus meteor does something in the range of 80k physical damage, with 25% converted to lightning/fire/chaos. The character would therefore take ~40k of that damage as chaos(DF), mitigated by resistance first (40000*0.2=8000). FV mitigates 88% with 300k armour (8000 > 960) and the character takes 960 chaos damage. DG w/ mastery mitigates 42% with 30k armour (8000 > 4640), then 40% less (4640 > 2784) and the character takes 2784 chaos damage.
I feel like you want to play Iron Reflexes with Fourth vow and hit at least 40k armour.
I'm not sure IR is actually that great unless you're going full armourstacking with hundreds of thousands of armour. Having some evasion with some armour is still going to be a better defensive balance for most builds.
Having said that though, PF definitely has the capability to stack large amounts of armour with IR so it's possible, but requires pathing all the way to that node.
@@dreamcore_gg Or Thread of Hopes. Or T2 crucible node. Or Arborix. Or Grelwood Shank. But yeah.
How you get 80% chaos res?
Edit: just saw it, 5% more from divine flesh
Probably cluster jewels
Yep, Divine Flesh!
ahh good comparison as always but hear me out..3d art fourth vow > doppelganger 🤣
Rofl doppelganger 3d art is kinda meme, it's like an mtx recolour I think 😆
Can’t you I just run the math on how much armour you need for it to be better?
Well, the calculation will be different based on the ability damage you are testing against. That's one of the big differences between the two - the mitigation from the Doppelganger will be consistent regardless of how much damage it is or even if it's DoT. Whereas for Fourth Vow, the mitigation is weakening as the hit of damage grows larger due to armour.
@@dreamcore_gg oh right