I looked at the actual press release, all it states is 'These new cells possess five times the capacity of the 2170 cell', it does not state that these are 5 times more energy dense, that seems to be something just made up! The 2170 is 21mm (diamater) x 70mm (tall), the 4680 are 46mm (diamater) x 80mm (tall), or put it another way, the volume changes from 24.25cm3 to 132.95cm3, so about 5.48 times the volume from old to new cells. Taking into account some of this will be casing etc. Then no sh$t Sherlock, it's going to have 5 times the capacity, because it's 5 times physically bigger!
As you note, the term 4680 describes the size of the battery, so if it is referred to as 4680, it cannot be bigger, If the length of the strip that is wrapped in the battery is much thinner it could theoretically be five times as long as the current wrap. You bring up the good point that this may not confer 5x improvement in battery density, so we will have to await an update on that.
Thank you for your no bull shit approach. I am sick of reading fake news from so many idiots out there. Have a great time in LA and all the best wishes to you and family mate.
@@michaeltan6892 its is bullshit tale again just like every week!!its clickbait bullshit title so that peoples would think they will get 5x more range with reading of 500% more capacity
I just wanted to say that when I saw the title for the video saying you were coming to America, it was because her scan showed she could have surgery/treatment in the US, and when it was for the opposite reason, my heart just sank... Most positive thoughts headed your way from Portland!
Firstly, You are doing a great work, Videos are crisp and clear. That guy who published the article can bring downfall for panasonic as its already struggling and false news like this is final nail. Panasonic should release statement on this article. We need companies like panasonic to get the land rising sun in the race of EV's.
It's actually LOWER energy density! As others have noted, the 4680 cells are much bigger.... 5.48x the volume, to be specific. So, if the volume has increased to 5.48x but the capacity has only increased to 5x, that means the energy density has actually DECREASED by more than 8%! Actually, I could believe that it is slightly more efficient - by maybe 10% - due to the reduced overhead of the connectors and casings per unit volume... so I'm wondering if the original Panasonic statement may have been '5x MORE capacity' which would actually be '6x the capacity' (of the 2170 cell)
Sam, all of your supporters in LA are looking forward to having you visit. I hope you and your family have a wonderful time. You know you can count on us if you need anything while visiting. The weather is great, and the vibe in LA has never been better. Onward and upward!
If some of them are good enough, that's already great. There's just so much money being invested into the battery industry, billions? Maybe trillions? So yeah, there will be many "Game Changers", but most of them are marketing stunts for sure.
If this is anywhere close to being true Panasonic will be able to simply license it to all battery producers and make enough money to simply just keep their research dependent only.
His title is misleading. It's 500% more than from the 2170 cell, most of which comes from the size difference. If you know about the 4680 format then you already know about the power rating those cells provide. The only news here is that Panasonic is finally getting to the point where they can manufacture them like everyone else can.
That was the plan in China and why they have so many car companies you just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. They funded all ideas because they didn't what would turn out good.
@@kensmith5694 If the doors locked, they will break the class to check, check, look, look, regardless of the car is rented or not, to avoid the headache, better just don't lock the door, they will check and go.
Good luck with your wife! Its good that your now getting into the nitty gritty & understanding whats going on under the hood. So kudos & well done you for sharing that with the community.
If 4680 are 6 times bigger than the current size, so it will have 500% more energy, but they are bigger, hence fewer of them in the car. But agan a new day, new battery. This might true, but not a game changer
@@davidbeppler3032 they used to be a client of mine and they really don’t resort to such behavior. I would guess the article was written by a person not familiar with battery technology and a language problem.
The biggest misconception about the 4680 is that the volume is 5 times of the 2170 and therefor the capacity compared to volume is the same. Many main stream media get this wrong. And think the capacity compared to volume is 5 times better. Just look at the Cybertruck. The massive battery and its still only 123 kWh.
500% more range.... HMMMM.... look.... 5 gallons of diesel have 500% more range than 1 gallon, too Is that what you mean? I guess so, i did not see that all over the news,so is it the same as yesterday's batteries ?
Yup. There are rare exception but most of the time I hear the term "game changing" i think "over hyped sensationlist clickbait". Anyone with an actual game changing product should never use those trope words to describe it in their marketing materials as it will immediately draw distrust for their product even if it's great..
I highly doubt that Panasonic claimed 500 percent energy density increase as it would make them look ridiculous. More like some third parties trying to generate hits for their website which was then copied uncritically by other websites.
You gotta visit our EV battery RnD lab. It's in El Segundo only 4miles from LAX airport. I could pick up your family in a Plaid Model S from LAX if you need a ride friend.
Panasonic is getting set to open it's new plant in Desoto, KS just a few miles from me. It's a BIG plant so I'm hoping they'll build the 4680 there as well as the 2170. Production is slated to begin in early Q1 '25.
My guess is that they left out the decimal point (possibly deliberately). They likely meant 50%. It's possible that we could see ranges approaching 550-600 miles with these new cells.
Not sure the maths has changed , unless the price is lower per cell . The radius of this cell means there are big gaps within each pack , but less spot welds . But more mass of cells needed to get the same function.
Interesting engineering is misreading the Panasonic report and they don't understand the difference between ENERGY and ENERGY DENSITY. 4680 cells have 5x the energy of a 2170 cell, they are also 5x the size of the 2170 cell. They do not have (and Panasonic is not claiming) 5x the energy density.
Much, much cleaner than it was 40+ years ago when it was like China. Very clean most of the time, only slightly smoggy in certain areas when atmospheric conditions are ‘right’, nothing like in the past.
C'mon Sam! It isn't even April Fool's Day. Of course they have 500% more power, they are 500% bigger batteries (ball park). You need 1/5 the number of batteries to get the same number of total KWh. As for actual efficiency gains, maybe that 20% you mentioned is true and that would be good. The thing about 4680 is that it is a very efficient from factor that is chemistry agnostic. Tesla taking the wet coatings out of the process makes them basically semi solid state in a way, saving massive amounts of plant space and production times (no drying of chemicals and of course less toxic materials to deal with). They also lend themselves well to structural packs.
Even if it has 5 times the energy of a 2170 they are also larger and heavier than a 2170 so it's really not 500% in the same space and weight. However, it would be fantastic for any pack that has already be designed to use 4680 size batteries like the CyberTruck, Simi, and that weird Model Y they made for a while.
Dear Sam, I am thinking about you and your family as you prepare to make your way to America. I live in Indianapolis, but I did live in LA for a few years, leaving only after 2020. If you have any questions or want any recommendations of places to eat or go, please don’t hesitate to contact me. Wishing you luck and prayers.
50% at 3 times the price, I would believe. A new way to get more of the Lithium to engage in chemistry could happen but I wouldn't expect it to be cheap.
Practically they are. A new technology is needed to get that big of a difference. If there was a new technology coming to market, it would make better news.
May I kindly suggest you have mis-read the document, according to their Japanese web site, 500% is compare to 18650 and 2170. Not 500% more than 4860 made by Tesla nor LG
Given the ~3.2 volume increase, the 500% capacity would equal 50% power to weight density increase. That sounds fishy without more info how that was achieved...
I'm not so interested in the percentage of extra mileage these can do (although I doubt their claims), I prefer to know what percentage are going to suddenly erupt in flames!
450 mile range is way too much total waste of resources. Make the battery 1/3 the size and sell the car for 15k. Average driven per day is 37 miles. This is the way......until TAAS arrives.
tesla would off to not in crease range over 320 to 330 miles. Their cars would better to be a few 300 to 500 pounds lighter. Handling would improve and ware and tear would be drastically reduced.
Looks like at least one company in Japan will do well out of electric cars, then, just not one that makes cars! (They make a hell of a lot of ebikes, though!)
I think it would be clearer and help explain these concepts if you stay consistent, specifically: the statement "LFP vs 2170" one is chemistry and one is dimensions, and is not helpful
I told my friends "you have got to listen to these videos by the electronic Irishman he calls himself". I might have made an error or two but they ll find you.
Sam, stop with these mis-leading headlines. You, of all people should know that the 5x is relative to the 2170 and that the 4680 is 5x bigger. I'm disappointed and will not watch this tripe.
I don't think a car manufacturer would even try to make cars with this high capacity. 5 times more range than now, that would be at least 350 KWh (if they say 70 KWh is the base) or up to 500 KWh or even more. From my point of view, like 200 KWh is the maximum. Then, the cars could be made lighter, have a bigger trunk or something. But more capacity than 200 KWh doesn't sound sane to me.
Tesla did the exact same thing: When the 4680 Tesla battery came out Tesla clickbaited us all with "5x the energy and 6 x the output" (vs the 2170) In the real world, a 2170 Y and a 4680 Y have similar performance, except the 2170 Y can actually charge faster (cooling limitations of the bigger cells I suspect?) It does sound like a 4680 Y battery is significantly cheaper to replace though.... so I get the reason for the change... But the (many multiples better) clickbait is PURE BS "This 500 ml glass can hold 4X the water and pour 6x faster than this this 125 ml glass".. I mean... yeah....
Elon was already misleading with this, it is about 5x more capacity of the 4680 battery compared to the 2170, which is a consequence of the fact that the 4680 battery is much larger than the 2170 battery. But the battery is also bigger, heavier and difference disappears... So I believe in a maximum of 50 % increase (preferably 100% if it is solid state) per unit volume or unit of weight.
Of course, the 500% range thing is nonsense. Roughly the same confusion arose early days after Tesla's announcement of its forthcoming 4680 cell. People confused a cell that packed roughly 5x the energy as that available from smaller form factor cells (that were then on the market) with the attainment of an energy density that was 5x greater. We are going through that same nonsense all over again. 4680s are merely larger in volume. They contain roughly 5x the weight of electroactive materials as smaller cells used in EVs. Thus, they store cell-for-cell roughly 5x the charge of smaller cells. There is nothing of great importance in any of this. 4680s are just a way of optimising materials usage (casings included) and reducing production costs while lifting the rate of cell production (in Ah, Wh or kWh terms). Without significant chemistry changes I don't expect major improvements in energy density - 5% - 15%, perhaps, with packing density impovements and weight savings strongly figuring in that result.
This feels like clickbait. Sorry Sam but you should know that what matters is. Storage capacitiy is Wh per kilo, I believe max is about 250 per kilo at the moment. For range important is aero and efficianty, below 10 Kwh is a breaktrough
I'm pretty disappointed at Panasonic producing this bullshit press release. As other posters noticed, it simply means the cell is roughly 5X larger so 5X more energy. But the pack would have the same energy approximately (maybe a 15% bump because they are 15% taller). The benefit is less cells (simpler assembly) and less testing per pack. It would be a win if they were 20% cheaper/kWh.
Panasonic has acquired battery know-how in Japan, having acquired companies such as Sanyo Electric, which had many invention patents for lithium-ion batteries, and Asahi Kasei, which was the first to commercialize lithium-ion. Battery companies such as China's CATL, Hong Kong's ATL, and South Korea's Samsung SDI and LG also produce using Panasonic's licensed production and patents.
@@oldbloke204 what point are you trying to make komrad? You wanna go drive 2000 km in one go and shit and piss in a bottle? I'm saying EVs are faster, cheaper and better in all respects. Range and charging are arguments from people who have never stepped in an EV, nor care to ever step in one
Click bait title?? So essentially Panasonic is getting close to being able to begin manufacturing their version of the 4680 cell. This is just them trying to remain relevant by moving beyond their 2170 cell production. Its not even a 2nd generation 4680 cell. That might happen in March of 2025.
Skip to 1:20 because the first 80 seconds are irrelevant to the subject of this video. Actually, better yet, skip the whole video because Sam admits the article this video is about is just clickbait. Meaning that the whole video is clickbait too.
500% more range means 5x the range... but the question is: five times the range of what? Previous Panasonic batteries? Hey, the better the batteries are the better, but I just hate that hyped comparison that compares to nothing. We have for example, very short range electric trainer/sports planes. Five times the range on those would be great. But no one knows. And also there is the question of when: when will they be on the market. Sounds like chest-thumping.
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I looked at the actual press release, all it states is 'These new cells possess five times the capacity of the 2170 cell', it does not state that these are 5 times more energy dense, that seems to be something just made up! The 2170 is 21mm (diamater) x 70mm (tall), the 4680 are 46mm (diamater) x 80mm (tall), or put it another way, the volume changes from 24.25cm3 to 132.95cm3, so about 5.48 times the volume from old to new cells. Taking into account some of this will be casing etc. Then no sh$t Sherlock, it's going to have 5 times the capacity, because it's 5 times physically bigger!
Be nice if they were only twice the price of a 2170 cell with 5 times capacity.
Basically, it's nothing burger. Why do they bother to do the press release?
Agree with you. The cell has about five times as much volume so the cell capacity is going to be about five times that of the 2170.
As you note, the term 4680 describes the size of the battery, so if it is referred to as 4680, it cannot be bigger, If the length of the strip that is wrapped in the battery is much thinner it could theoretically be five times as long as the current wrap. You bring up the good point that this may not confer 5x improvement in battery density, so we will have to await an update on that.
@@TheBoothy666 It will need a lot less cells to make up a battery, so this can only be a good thing.
Thank you for your no bull shit approach. I am sick of reading fake news from so many idiots out there. Have a great time in LA and all the best wishes to you and family mate.
@@michaeltan6892 its is bullshit tale again just like every week!!its clickbait bullshit title so that peoples would think they will get 5x more range with reading of 500% more capacity
he is as much fake as all the others
You’ve gotta lotta people thinking and caring for your family in this difficult time. Have a great trip, amazing memories for you and the boys….
I just wanted to say that when I saw the title for the video saying you were coming to America, it was because her scan showed she could have surgery/treatment in the US, and when it was for the opposite reason, my heart just sank... Most positive thoughts headed your way from Portland!
Firstly, You are doing a great work, Videos are crisp and clear. That guy who published the article can bring downfall for panasonic as its already struggling and false news like this is final nail. Panasonic should release statement on this article. We need companies like panasonic to get the land rising sun in the race of EV's.
It's actually LOWER energy density!
As others have noted, the 4680 cells are much bigger.... 5.48x the volume, to be specific. So, if the volume has increased to 5.48x but the capacity has only increased to 5x, that means the energy density has actually DECREASED by more than 8%!
Actually, I could believe that it is slightly more efficient - by maybe 10% - due to the reduced overhead of the connectors and casings per unit volume... so I'm wondering if the original Panasonic statement may have been '5x MORE capacity' which would actually be '6x the capacity' (of the 2170 cell)
Any improvement to reduce vehicle weight and range is a good thing. Stay safe !
Sam, all of your supporters in LA are looking forward to having you visit. I hope you and your family have a wonderful time. You know you can count on us if you need anything while visiting. The weather is great, and the vibe in LA has never been better. Onward and upward!
So many battery tech breakthroughs. Surely, this one will turn out to be legit.
If some of them are good enough, that's already great. There's just so much money being invested into the battery industry, billions? Maybe trillions? So yeah, there will be many "Game Changers", but most of them are marketing stunts for sure.
Game changer! Game changer!
If this is anywhere close to being true Panasonic will be able to simply license it to all battery producers and make enough money to simply just keep their research dependent only.
His title is misleading. It's 500% more than from the 2170 cell, most of which comes from the size difference. If you know about the 4680 format then you already know about the power rating those cells provide. The only news here is that Panasonic is finally getting to the point where they can manufacture them like everyone else can.
That was the plan in China and why they have so many car companies you just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. They funded all ideas because they didn't what would turn out good.
Rental cars in California often get broken into so don't leave anything of value in your rental when you come to California.
Rent a Cybertruck and you can put anything you want in it.
@@davidbeppler3032 Nope. It just takes a bigger hammer to get in. There also would be fewer people who would bother to report it.
You need to leave the car door unlocked all the time, so that they will not break your class.
@@hanfucolorful9656 On a rental car does it matter?
@@kensmith5694 If the doors locked, they will break the class to check, check, look, look, regardless of the car is rented or not, to avoid the headache, better just don't lock the door, they will check and go.
So bigger battery has more capacity. Stop the presses!
Enjoy your time in the states. Love the way you take care of your own.
Good luck with your wife! Its good that your now getting into the nitty gritty & understanding whats going on under the hood.
So kudos & well done you for sharing that with the community.
A 5x improvement isn't realistic but hope you enjoy your trip.
If 4680 are 6 times bigger than the current size, so it will have 500% more energy, but they are bigger, hence fewer of them in the car.
But agan a new day, new battery. This might true, but not a game changer
500Wh/kg is a 100% increase
That’s still a lot if true. The Japanese are really good at slow evolving industries like chemistry. Hope it’s true.
@@greghelton4668 Panasonic is just trying to pump the share price.
@@davidbeppler3032 they used to be a client of mine and they really don’t resort to such behavior. I would guess the article was written by a person not familiar with battery technology and a language problem.
@@greghelton4668 Stop using facts in the comments section of a youtube video. That is not the place! Next you will be complimenting people on grammar!
@@davidbeppler3032 darn, am I old fashioned? 😉
The biggest misconception about the 4680 is that the volume is 5 times of the 2170 and therefor the capacity compared to volume is the same. Many main stream media get this wrong. And think the capacity compared to volume is 5 times better. Just look at the Cybertruck. The massive battery and its still only 123 kWh.
I hope you have a great vacation. Make some amazing memories.
Thank you, I will
500% more range....
HMMMM.... look....
5 gallons of diesel have 500% more range than 1 gallon, too
Is that what you mean?
I guess so, i did not see that all over the news,so is it the same as yesterday's batteries ?
Maybe you should actually watch the video.
As Perun loves to remind us: beware "game changers."
Yup. There are rare exception but most of the time I hear the term "game changing" i think "over hyped sensationlist clickbait". Anyone with an actual game changing product should never use those trope words to describe it in their marketing materials as it will immediately draw distrust for their product even if it's great..
I highly doubt that Panasonic claimed 500 percent energy density increase as it would make them look ridiculous. More like some third parties trying to generate hits for their website which was then copied uncritically by other websites.
Thanks for a realistic assessment. That is why I listen to you.
I appreciate that
Game changing new battery that will completely dominate the industry. Must be Friday.
Thanks!
You gotta visit our EV battery RnD lab. It's in El Segundo only 4miles from LAX airport. I could pick up your family in a Plaid Model S from LAX if you need a ride friend.
If you've 500% more energy per battery but use 500% less batteries, it's a wash and 500% more energy is what Elon said way back at battery day...
But the battery (cell) he was referring to was much larger so of course it will have more energy. The important thing is energy density.
Panasonic is getting set to open it's new plant in Desoto, KS just a few miles from me. It's a BIG plant so I'm hoping they'll build the 4680 there as well as the 2170. Production is slated to begin in early Q1 '25.
Good commentary on Panasonic and 4680s.
My guess is that they left out the decimal point (possibly deliberately). They likely meant 50%. It's possible that we could see ranges approaching 550-600 miles with these new cells.
Welcome to the USA Sam! LA isn't really the US but go to the beach and enjoy. Praying for your wife.
Range has becoming acceptable.
But how about the longevity of those new ones?
That is a good question.
We sometimes call Panasonic "Panic sonic". They have a history of suddenly quitting making a product you have designed in.
Getting 4680 batteries for cordless drills etc would be great. Makes smaller robots possible. Robot lawn mowers?
Not sure the maths has changed , unless the price is lower per cell . The radius of this cell means there are big gaps within each pack , but less spot welds . But more mass of cells needed to get the same function.
Interesting engineering is misreading the Panasonic report and they don't understand the difference between ENERGY and ENERGY DENSITY. 4680 cells have 5x the energy of a 2170 cell, they are also 5x the size of the 2170 cell. They do not have (and Panasonic is not claiming) 5x the energy density.
Hey Sam, go have an awesome time. Mate I'm just in Medowie if you need anything done while your away, or when you get back for that matter.
Sounds like the article confused the energy capacity per cell with cell energy density.
I hope you and your family enjoy your trip to LA and Disneyland. I hear the air is a little cleaner "out there" than it used to be.
Much, much cleaner than it was 40+ years ago when it was like China. Very clean most of the time, only slightly smoggy in certain areas when atmospheric conditions are ‘right’, nothing like in the past.
Either way that is a very good news for tesla since these batteries are made in US and tesla could use all the batteries they get from open market.
lol yeah. 500% more per cell because it’s a huge cell.
It looks very likely that a well designed 4680 pack will get over 400 miles range in a 3 or Y for less cost, so job done.
Until a 4x4, -30C capable, 400 mile range hatchback or truck with a reasonable price tag (sub 40k) arrives, im staying ice!
This charges everything
C'mon Sam! It isn't even April Fool's Day. Of course they have 500% more power, they are 500% bigger batteries (ball park). You need 1/5 the number of batteries to get the same number of total KWh. As for actual efficiency gains, maybe that 20% you mentioned is true and that would be good. The thing about 4680 is that it is a very efficient from factor that is chemistry agnostic. Tesla taking the wet coatings out of the process makes them basically semi solid state in a way, saving massive amounts of plant space and production times (no drying of chemicals and of course less toxic materials to deal with). They also lend themselves well to structural packs.
I wish you were coming to Michigan to Sam. Enjoy your trip!
Maybe one day!
Even if it has 5 times the energy of a 2170 they are also larger and heavier than a 2170 so it's really not 500% in the same space and weight. However, it would be fantastic for any pack that has already be designed to use 4680 size batteries like the CyberTruck, Simi, and that weird Model Y they made for a while.
Dear Sam, I am thinking about you and your family as you prepare to make your way to America. I live in Indianapolis, but I did live in LA for a few years, leaving only after 2020. If you have any questions or want any recommendations of places to eat or go, please don’t hesitate to contact me. Wishing you luck and prayers.
500% increase is absurd. Tech advances dont happen like this.
They do happen but it is stuff like changing from lead-acid to lithium. There was no big jump like that included
Safe travels man!!!!!
*50% would have been believable.* Best of luck on your trip!
50% at 3 times the price, I would believe. A new way to get more of the Lithium to engage in chemistry could happen but I wouldn't expect it to be cheap.
when i see it... i believe!
I will believe it when I see it ...
Sounds like the figures are impossible.
Practically they are. A new technology is needed to get that big of a difference. If there was a new technology coming to market, it would make better news.
Competition is good to all.
Be good, has possible
"Losing market share" might not mean much if they are sell more batteries than ever.
Come to Texas man! Dinner is on me!
Tesla same said own 4860 5xmore, just because 5time bigger cell physically
May I kindly suggest you have mis-read the document, according to their Japanese web site, 500% is compare to 18650 and 2170. Not 500% more than 4860 made by Tesla nor LG
500% more range in a battery that takes up at least 4.5x the volume
Given the ~3.2 volume increase, the 500% capacity would equal 50% power to weight density increase. That sounds fishy without more info how that was achieved...
I'm not so interested in the percentage of extra mileage these can do (although I doubt their claims), I prefer to know what percentage are going to suddenly erupt in flames!
They're bigger. Therefore each battery contains more energy. That's all.
Come to Canada as well!
Hey. Come to Texas and educate we Texans on why EVs should be excluded from paying road taxes. By the way, I think Teslas are great!!!
450 mile range is way too much total waste of resources. Make the battery 1/3 the size and sell the car for 15k. Average driven per day is 37 miles. This is the way......until TAAS arrives.
tesla would off to not in crease range over 320 to 330 miles. Their cars would better to be a few 300 to 500 pounds lighter. Handling would improve and ware and tear would be drastically reduced.
500% more EV range per battery for 480% increase in volume per battery...
Someone please take viking up on his offer to sue him
Looks like at least one company in Japan will do well out of electric cars, then, just not one that makes cars! (They make a hell of a lot of ebikes, though!)
when will we see these as rechargeables at home? I've had Eneloop rechargeables for ever!
I think it would be clearer and help explain these concepts if you stay consistent, specifically:
the statement "LFP vs 2170"
one is chemistry and one is dimensions, and is not helpful
It's not the actual battery. It's the type and combo you use.
Is this in regards to the story that some company is releasing a Aluminuim Ion battery with 1100kw/kilo efficiency?
If they can design a new 4680 cell that is not a fire hazard if we have an electrolyte leak....
I told my friends "you have got to listen to these videos by the electronic Irishman he calls himself". I might have made an error or two but they ll find you.
I am skeptical
Sam, stop with these mis-leading headlines. You, of all people should know that the 5x is relative to the 2170 and that the 4680 is 5x bigger. I'm disappointed and will not watch this tripe.
I don't think a car manufacturer would even try to make cars with this high capacity. 5 times more range than now, that would be at least 350 KWh (if they say 70 KWh is the base) or up to 500 KWh or even more. From my point of view, like 200 KWh is the maximum. Then, the cars could be made lighter, have a bigger trunk or something. But more capacity than 200 KWh doesn't sound sane to me.
The Silverado BEV has a 200kwh battery pack.
Tesla did the exact same thing:
When the 4680 Tesla battery came out Tesla clickbaited us all with "5x the energy and 6 x the output" (vs the 2170)
In the real world, a 2170 Y and a 4680 Y have similar performance, except the 2170 Y can actually charge faster (cooling limitations of the bigger cells I suspect?)
It does sound like a 4680 Y battery is significantly cheaper to replace though.... so I get the reason for the change...
But the (many multiples better) clickbait is PURE BS
"This 500 ml glass can hold 4X the water and pour 6x faster than this this 125 ml glass".. I mean... yeah....
Elon was already misleading with this, it is about 5x more capacity of the 4680 battery compared to the 2170, which is a consequence of the fact that the 4680 battery is much larger than the 2170 battery. But the battery is also bigger, heavier and difference disappears... So I believe in a maximum of 50 % increase (preferably 100% if it is solid state) per unit volume or unit of weight.
Of course, the 500% range thing is nonsense. Roughly the same confusion arose early days after Tesla's announcement of its forthcoming 4680 cell. People confused a cell that packed roughly 5x the energy as that available from smaller form factor cells (that were then on the market) with the attainment of an energy density that was 5x greater. We are going through that same nonsense all over again. 4680s are merely larger in volume. They contain roughly 5x the weight of electroactive materials as smaller cells used in EVs. Thus, they store cell-for-cell roughly 5x the charge of smaller cells.
There is nothing of great importance in any of this. 4680s are just a way of optimising materials usage (casings included) and reducing production costs while lifting the rate of cell production (in Ah, Wh or kWh terms).
Without significant chemistry changes I don't expect major improvements in energy density - 5% - 15%, perhaps, with packing density impovements and weight savings strongly figuring in that result.
This feels like clickbait. Sorry Sam but you should know that what matters is. Storage capacitiy is Wh per kilo, I believe max is about 250 per kilo at the moment. For range important is aero and efficianty, below 10 Kwh is a breaktrough
Volume of 4680 battery is almost 5 times bigger than volume of 2170 battery. So yes it has 5 tomes more energy per cell. NO BREAKTHROUGH HERE DOUGH.
battery of the day go to....
I'm pretty disappointed at Panasonic producing this bullshit press release. As other posters noticed, it simply means the cell is roughly 5X larger so 5X more energy. But the pack would have the same energy approximately (maybe a 15% bump because they are 15% taller). The benefit is less cells (simpler assembly) and less testing per pack. It would be a win if they were 20% cheaper/kWh.
Panasonic has acquired battery know-how in Japan, having acquired companies such as Sanyo Electric, which had many invention patents for lithium-ion batteries, and Asahi Kasei, which was the first to commercialize lithium-ion.
Battery companies such as China's CATL, Hong Kong's ATL, and South Korea's Samsung SDI and LG also produce using Panasonic's licensed production and patents.
I heard that news once a week for the last 20 years.
And now we have great battery tech and amazing EVs, what have you changed in those 20 years. Alot of people have created this.
Everyone is pumping before the recession and market crash opening to save the ship
@@oldbloke204 yeah ones where ICE drivers need to talk how evs have no emotions after getting their asses handed to them in a race
@@oldbloke204 what point are you trying to make komrad? You wanna go drive 2000 km in one go and shit and piss in a bottle? I'm saying EVs are faster, cheaper and better in all respects. Range and charging are arguments from people who have never stepped in an EV, nor care to ever step in one
And we went from having EV's with 200kms to what 1000 kms max now?
So what's your point?
Click bait title?? So essentially Panasonic is getting close to being able to begin manufacturing their version of the 4680 cell. This is just them trying to remain relevant by moving beyond their 2170 cell production. Its not even a 2nd generation 4680 cell. That might happen in March of 2025.
I just look forward to the day when the cybertruck has 500 miles of range, preferably without taking up half the bed.
I don't plan to ever buy something that big. I want a car I can part in a "Compact" spot.
@@kensmith5694 to each their own
Plus 500%, nehhh....
Maybe the misleading info is that a single 4680 cell has 5 x the energy of a single 2170 cell…. maybe
Do the maths, the cell is five times the volume, so yes, five times the energy too. But so what.
Skip to 1:20 because the first 80 seconds are irrelevant to the subject of this video. Actually, better yet, skip the whole video because Sam admits the article this video is about is just clickbait. Meaning that the whole video is clickbait too.
It's very frustrating to be misled by the title of a TH-cam video.
500% more range means 5x the range... but the question is: five times the range of what? Previous Panasonic batteries? Hey, the better the batteries are the better, but I just hate that hyped comparison that compares to nothing. We have for example, very short range electric trainer/sports planes. Five times the range on those would be great. But no one knows. And also there is the question of when: when will they be on the market. Sounds like chest-thumping.
Still won't be good enough range to make a renter buy one.
Eating this McDonalds burger will make me lose 5x more weight
I just blocked content from the idiots reporting that EV range will increase 5x.
Maybe 5× the power...that is like the CATL cells..faster charging probably...Whats in the name...
Panasonic sounds desperate
% increase in battery pollution is elephant in room
Panasonic would have to start making silicon wire anodes to get double... so no