I just ordered these speakers and I will not be purchasing any upgrade kit. I have watched lots of reviews from very credible sound experts and they all have nothing but wonderful things to say about these speakers. These guys are of course going to tell you what they need to tell you to push you towards buying their upgrade products. It's called marketing gimmicks. He trashes the old RP 600Ms as if they are garbage, I watched patiently but after listening to him and going to his website, I see the connection between what he says and what he is trying to achieve. One can always get better speakers, but don't tell me these speakers are not a good build, because they are. I trust the reviews from real independent reviewers, not someone who is trying to sell me something. Don't get me wrong, I know this guy knows a lot about sound and speakers, but he is a businessman and he will be out of business if he tells you the speakers are excellent and need no upgrade.
First of all, I haven't designed anything for this model yet, despite many requests. Secondly, the upgrades are something I like doing. It is a good way to help people get started in DIY projects that are fun and improve their listening experience. It is a very small segment of our business here at GR Research. So it is not something we are doing as a money maker. I don't even charge anything for the design work. Performance wise, these are pretty low on the scale, but If you are happy with them that's great.
Did you get offended, that Danny found a flaw in your design? Because you surely must be a designer at Klipsch, or at the marketing department? Sales dropped? You do sound so when defending the old 600:s that have a valley in the response. And a hot tweeter that is so fatiguing and especially for my tinnitus.
Danny is a snake oil specialist. Best to keep your dollars from this guy. Check Audio Science Review. They call Danny out over there and expose him for the B.S. schill he is.
be ware that a lot of those so called reviewers don't measure the frequency responce and identify what the issues are and what you can expect its all just subjective blabber with one or two exceptions. Why do you think he gets sent so many Klipsch speakers? if you watch all his upgrades as I have, or just search for and only watch the Klipsch upgrades (and B&W while were on the subject). you'll see how badly designed many of them are. Amir at Audio Science review gives a very good intro on speaker design and measurements and also measures and reviews Danny's upgrade of the RP600M.
I think I'll find a vintage good-looking console stereo, say an old Curtis Mathes system. Looks great in the family room and fun to listen to music again. Instead of listening to where the sound is, I'll just enjoy music and skip the measurements. Thanks
Yeah, takes me back to when I was a kid, lying on the living room floor with my head centered between the speakers of our 1970 Magnavox console, spinning my Allman Bros. albums. Right there on the floor with my head buried in the mud...the muddy sound. "Live at Fillmore East" sounded more like "Stuck Outside The Fillmore Without a Ticket", but I didn't know any better till I could afford my own Radio Shack "Realistic" hifi system for my room. Then I smiled, and bought more records.
I personally don't like klipsch. It sounds like there is no upper midrange, and the tweeter dispersion was bouncing all over the place. Just my experience.
Excited to hear the sound clips! Please, please, PLEASE have the clips synchronized and just transition from one setup to the other so we can more easily hear the differences. Do this and I guarantee people will hear the differences. If you just play one speaker set for a while, then play the other for a while, it won't be as obvious to those of us that don't have as trained ears as you.
@@glengatt3941 What am I going to be disappointed about? I didn't set any expectations for what or how much or whether anyone would like one speaker or the other. I only suggested the method so we could hear *some kind of difference*. I've found this to be extremely helpful when other reviewers have done this. Is it perfect? No. Does it capture everything? No. Will it show a difference if done how I describe. You bet. It will absolutely show relative differences. *That* is all I expect to hear. Since, as Danny put it, what we are able to experience through the recording is only a small percentage of the other differences that can be heard in-person, I'm definitely going to recommend a method that will show the differences in what *can* be heard through TH-cam. You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to agree with Danny. I'm not taking any sides. One reason I love audio is that there is plenty of subjectivity. There are so many ways to enjoy it and so many "tastes". Yours is probably different than mine and that's cool.
I'm m not an expert but sometimes you say for example that the problem is the cabinet and the fix is a crossover ,can a bad cabinet be fixed like that, and you sell speakers too have you ever reviewed one of your products? True is that the way you talk about other products or the way just throwed that base driver on the table like is garbage not everyone can just go and spend thousands of € on a pair of speakers I think you do better with just some humbleness, just my opinion
sound clips via your pc etc really only show tonal and detail diffs. its ok but nothing like being there. in that sense i dont give them too much weight when the products are closely matched. soundstage, phase issues, placement within soundstage.. none of that comes thru via you tube. just saying.
dude, it's a $749 pr of speakers . that's expected from a company that makes speakers for every price point- - a serous listener would pass on these and move on up the speaker chain -
A steel nut is not going to affect the sound. If it did affect the sound, it wouldn't be noticeable by the human ear. Everything doesn't have to be flawless and perfect for a set of speakers to play at their absolute best. The human ears can only hear certain frequencies. 99% of the Data charts frequencies can't be heard by the human ears. This means there is absolutely no reason besides OCD to change something that doesn't need changed. Your OCD has gotten a strong hold on your common sense and it's infused to you forever.
Hey Danny, just letting you know there is something up with your website if you weren't already aware. Links are not working, domain seems to be highjacked??
I purchased these speakers following the SG review and his passion left me really satisfied. It was a no-brainer purchase for me. If anything really positive can be said is that my hifi purchase have continued and taken me to some very surprising places. The dealer has become a friend and is going to open his own business. My research enabled me to obtain high efficiency loudspeakers, new turntable and experiment with vintage amps. I have since bought expensive second hand loudspeakers that I could never have afforded when new. I still have the RP-600M’s. Whatever faults you find they still remain a significant upgrade for many who had simply abandoned this industry altogether. Look out for a good second hand pair and enjoy! Well done Klipsch.
I bought a pair as well back then. I think they really depend on the rest of the system if they are to sound good. I had initially thought they were very fatiguing and almost gave up and then put them in low power system in another room with a tube preamp and they now sound really good.
But these speakers aren't high efficiency as Danny mentioned. Actually no speaker is high efficiency but some are high sensitivity, which these are not. A 102dB sensitive speaker is no more than about 10% efficient. Not very efficient is it?
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I wasn't speaking to their efficiency really. I was speaking I had a very forward sounding amp, and a very crisp transparent dac in a small room it was harsh. I set up another 'warmer' system which is lower power and they were just right.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt sounds right, excuse the pun. I found some much better loudspeakers with more details, spaciousness, precision without sounding harsh. The RP’s are now in my office with a vintage technics amp and loudness ON
If you can build a better speaker than you should, go out source parts, material's, factories, then market them and sell them see if you can make a profit. Guys like this are never happy. He's the kind of guy that would say I can improve these other $200,000 speakers. Now if you just want to sell "your" up grades do that else where.
holy! moly! 10 years awesome that was Klipsch. my 2 Klipsch powered bass speakers have failed amps 1 in 6 months 1 in 8 months at 850.00 you would expect 10 years life expectancy but Klipsch was sold to a Chinese company and now it is all Chinese parts. literally 1000s have experienced this. tried multiple times to contact Klipsch with no results. and no replacement parts we can find so i no longer recommend Powered Klipsch,, also latest technical look at what they are pumping out is not good. i have 12 passive klipsch, not the best sound through the scale but at least they are not $850.00 bricks
I have hyperacusis and bad tinnitus.Any harshness in an audio signal is immediately apparent to me.Immediately apparent becomes discomfort after a short while.My friends that used to own an audio outlet used to use me as a "mine canary"with their systems.I could pick out anything that was not right very quickly.This is why i was looking at purchasing one of your single driver DIY speakers.They will not have the harshness of a tweeter system by default.And the parts you use will smooth them out even more.Thanks and take care Danny.
Probably the most honest review on these I've seen.. and it's really appreciated. I just received a pair of these today, got them for $449 on black Friday, so I feel pretty good about that purchase, even if they aren't perfect.. next year is wharfedale.. ;)
Also coming late to the party, first of all, thanks a lot for these reviews. Even if I tend to disagree here and there, I still learn a lot, and that's what matters. Somebody may have asked this before - as it is an obvious question: why do you think Klipsch designed and sold a speaker with such notable dip at 1.5 kHz (first version)? I assume they were well aware of this fact, and I also assume that they have engineers how probably came up with a similar alternative filter design as you presented. Still, they ended with the "dipped" version. Do you think they presented different versions to some test-listeners, and maybe some thought that the dip in this frequency range actually sounded softer or more accommodating? I know that lowering the frequency in the 1-2 kHz range is not uncommon for that very reason.
They don't go through anything like that during the design process. No company throws a design out there like the first 600M on purpose. They got killed for it and had to go back to the drawing board and fix the problems. The result is the new version.
I adore my Klipsch BUT I completely agree with you! The tweeter is 2-3db louder than the woofer and it sucks 😢 I do love the dynamics of my Klipsch R-51m and the off axis performance from the wave guide but Klipsch needs to replace the metal cone woofer with a stiff compliance paper coned woofer and focus more on the presentation of the midrange rather than the higher frequencies.
Unfortunately, these types of speakers are designed for mass market non audiophile people. Honestly, I can't blame them if they are trying to make money
I hadn’t changed my speakers for 10 years and rave reviews helped in my Klipsch purchase. I have since moved on to something better. I’m not an audiophile because I don’t own Dire Straits-Love Over Gold. This sends shivers down my back :-)
Marketing hype. Most people don't verify and I agree that 90 dB/W/m is still better than average. I can easily see why tube fans like the 600M's better. The much higher treble impedance shelves the frequency response with low damping factor amps.
I think people want wonky speakers that only work well with certain recording balances. It's not like you didn't know. That said, having issues at @1Khz is not good/inexcusable.
i.knew when Danny mentioned about opening the back of Sandy's golden ear amt tweeters he knew his shit.. I have audiovector s and the highs are awesome.. I trust his take much more the the people who review speakers who have been working at retail.stores or have no background in any engineering of any sort they are all late to the movie ...Erin is another good one for sure! not that there isn't good enough sound on the cheap today but I would not put my money on most of these men for the best sound for dollars...
I more or less agree with this, except klipsch is supposed to be a high end brand how much price difference is a brass nut going to be that they can’t use them instead of steel maybe a few cents per hundred. I own 6 rp 280’s as my surround and a 64III center channel that’s not a cheap setup they can afford some better quality parts in their stuff at the prices they charge.
They're decent in the time ive had them up playing, but they're too bright for me, especially with any sort of tow-in. I'm quite ensitive to any boosts in the 1-3KHz range, so rebalancing them will make them much more enjoyable over their stock performance, especially at louder levels.
@@sptauto I spent an evening reading reviews, bought an 8 speaker set; it arrived in 2 days, and works great. I don’t watch that much tv anymore, so it wasn’t a major decision. I also love the new Denon receiver as well.
Skipped klipsch because of reviews. In the end, kept the RP-500M ii. Could’ve saved $$ in returns had I not listened to reviews. Cheap parts or not, best sound.
Another TH-cam reviewer confirmed that Klipsch’s chief engineer saw Danny’s 600M video and claimed it was unfair due to budget constraints and frequency response voicing that is part of the brand.
I’ve heard that same thing and it cracks me up. Part of the “house sound” is an out of phase relationship between the tweeter and woofer? Uh huh, sure…
2:01 to 2:14 it just enogh to understand what he is talking about.. Hey, you forgot to talk about the influience of those ferric screw that influience the sound! I suspect the "influience" it will apear somewhere on those graphics you put up in the front of our eyes, bit you forgot completely to speak about the screw influience... You looked very affected by this. Shame, shame, shame on someone..🙈
Danny, please consider hiring a recording engineer with a binaural Neumann KU 100 dummy head, GML preamps, and high end Lynx/Crane Song/RME/Prism converters to get a true binaural sound from the sweet spot in your listening room. With this, you’d greatly increase that 20% of differences to be heard on headphones. A listener on a nice but even low priced pair like the Status CB-1 would be able to get a much better feel for the differences than other speaker demo recording methods, which are often haphazard at best. Measurement mics in ORTF at the sweet spot can do a decent job, but for a serious listening endeavor, I’d recommend the above. Just this experienced audiophile recordist/mastering engineer’s 10 cents.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Nothing illogical about it. Purely the science of acoustics. No recording of a speaker is going to represent the original space, transient response, etc., and bringing stereo fields into this convolutes the issue. Binaural is not stereo. It is the absence of spatial interaction and cancellation that can only be experienced in headphones. This is why and how headphone studio mixing room simulations exist with some level of success. Is it a perfect 1:1? Not by any stretch. But it can give you far more spatial realism and depth, tonal responsiveness, representing the original system and space, magnified by the quality of the headphones and preampfification. Say you mic two speakers directly, right and left, with measurement mics. Playing this back on any type of system will completely destroy any imaging and staging in the recorded system. Now, say you take my suggestion for a quality binaural recording, but you instead play it back over a speaker system rather than decent to great headphones - the imaging will completely fall apart on speakers, due to cancellations and interactions in the stereo field, in contrast to being fairly accurately reproduced spatially within a binaural (headset) system, where there is no crosstalk between drivers, placed directly over/by your ears. There’s a reason high end binaural microphones like the Neumann KU 100 and others exist. The 1:1 reproduction would be the most transparent headset and signal chain possible. Recording with this and playing back on speakers, like you’ll hear from many “player position” virtual instruments recorded using this mic, will sound interesting perhaps, depending on the placement in a mix, but not at all representing the actual position and staging like headphones produce. And to clarify, I’m not making an argument for headphones over speakers at all - this is simply to say that headphones are binaural in their spatial representation, whereas speakers are stereo. Trying to “put you in the room” with a speaker demo? Binaural in and out is the best way to perform this cloudy and dismal endeavor 🙂
DMark2 The budget speaker is just the vehicle used to deliver a message about how cheap parts hold back speakers. He’s cracked open plenty of +2K models that have the same cheesy parts in them. As consumers we should be more concerned about pretty boxes filled with crap than Danny’s videos.
What a mean review of the klipsch rp-600m II speakers.... It seems that the entire klipsch engineering team has no idea about anything... A bunch of ignoramuses who make their living thanks to deaf and hard of hearing people who love their speakers
I rly dont get this, why cant the manufactors just spend an xtra 20$ on good crossover parts, then put the price up 50 bucks for all i care, just dont give me chinese crap
I changed the signal capacitors in my Prima Luna prologue amp to a supposed expensive upgrade paper and oil caps. Although subtle they took away from separation in the mid frequencies but improved on the bass. I was about to sell the amp a year after that because of lack of interest in listening to music. I changed the capacitors back to the originals before selling and the life came back and two years later I still enjoy the sound and am not selling it. The point is the caps can make a subtle but very important difference to the enjoyment of listening
I would never change out the electrolytics in my main amps, they are in their for a reason. However, in phono stages, and speakers I have changed out all my electrolytic capacitors, with paper in oils, and poly caps, and boy oh boy, that is where great gains can be had.
A major speaker company selling speakers out of phase is not acceptable. On principle alone, not a brand that would ever get my $. As I don't like their sound in general, not an issue regardless.
@@rydoggsc2 Sure, what ever you say. While I don't always agree with him on some topics (e.g., cables and wire...), he's forgotten more in an afternoon about speaker design than you and I combined in a life time. His experience and background in the audio biz, speaker design specifically, is matched by very few. You'd be far better off posting less about how full of crap he is, and learning more from him. True story...
I've heard you guys... Honestly though we do tons of listening comparisons here. I spent all morning doing that. I do understand the need to bring you guys along as best I can, and let everyone in on the listening somehow rather than me just telling you the results. So I am going to try and do that this time.
I just spent six hours with my son listening to all kinds of music on his Gen 1 RP-600Ms. We had a great time; they sounded great. That’s not to say they sounded accurate, just great - without A/B, it would’ve been hard to tell. All I know is, they were really really fun.
A lot of people love them, they sell very well. Not my type of speaker but all that matters is that you and your son do. Nice bonding moment listening to music with your boy 👍
There's No guarantee that a better speaker will have better quality parts. We occasionally get speakers many times the price of the 600M & often times have many of the same cheap parts or in some cases worse..
Hi, after seeing a lot of you're video, I would like to see one with an old vintage speaker like the Celestion Ditton 44 or Celestion Ditton 44 series 2. I've got a pair of Ditton series 2 and I've alredy upgrade the crossover with good parts and I'm curious about how would you handle these ones .
Exactly, it really makes me shake my head when these people put sound tracks of two different speakers in the same system cause you can't actually hear the full difference without being in the actual room! And on top of that there is nothing else on the video except the music sound tracks!
And you're listening to them on X playback device which is potentially coloring and most certainly altering the sound as well. I don't think the demos are completely useless however you're not hearing the gear as you would in person so it does beg the "what's the point" question to some extent. I've also watched a number of them where comments gravitate to the brighter tipped up speaker and they declare the apparent clarity as the higher quality. Yet I know in room that some of those speakers are going to be far less enjoyable over hours of high volume listening compared to something that may sound veiled or rolled off in comparison during the sound clip. If you're inexperienced, those clips will probably just lead you more astray. Nothing can replace living with and experiencing gear first hand.
I would love an a/b test of the same crossover but with”quality” parts. If they have the same values they should sound the same, basic physics. Prove it makes a difference.
Absolutely he should so this. However, if he is actually reworking the crossover frequencies and reversing the phase on the tweeters, then that should be easily audible. People do buy these for the V-shaped sound signature though, so "correcting" it with 300-400$ worth of parts makes no sense, as you should have just bought Polk Reserves or something else nuetral with that 1200$ you've now invested. I have a set of RP160ms that run in the B channel on my system, an AXR100 driving some vintage Jamo Concert 11 towers, and I like to switch over and listen to them when I am streaming lofi on youtube or some other lossy-format poorly mixed music(2000s Rock comes to mind). They don't reveal the suck inherent in bad recordings, and make some of my favorite songs sound like nails on a chalkboard.
The Linton's got a full upgrade. For the KLH, it's just a swap of the caps in the tweeter and mid circuits, along with a few sheets of NoRez. If we had the KLH for longer, we probably would have done a full upgrade. In both cases, we only had one of each speaker at different times, and we also don't install the upgrades. Makes it much more difficult to do comparison between them vs before/after the upgrade.
I understand better designed electronics may make graph more leanier (and sound charactersictics better depending on each one taste). But not clear how without changing the cabinet and especially the drivers, one can remove all its shortcomings. I find mostly it boils to one's taste... and each design has its strengths and weaknesses. But, inspite of so many requests, why don't you show the differences. In several channels, with proper headset we can surely hear the differences... But many thanks to your feedbacks which help manufacturers to improve their design/quality and stay competitive.
Parts quality used will have a huge impact on clarity, detail, resolution, etc. So it is much more then just correcting amplitude problems. Recording those before and after in a way that you can hear them over a TH-cam video is pretty challenging, but we are working on it.
@@dannyrichie9743 thank you so much. Looking forward for comparison which helps to get feel on the major differences like details, tonality etc. (understand may not show in full the improvements on sound stage etc).
Nice work!! I'm enjoying these videos more and more. I went to a hifi expo in my hometown this past weekend. I've been waiting for 3 years due to covid cancellations. I have to say that I was disappointed in nearly every system I listened to except for 2. One was valued around $400k and it absolutely rocked in every way. Gryphon, my God you make some equipment! The other was comprised of McIntosh and Sonus Faber, somewhere close to $80k and it was fantastic even though the speakers were lowly in the Sonus Faber range.
Nice work, maybe the best on TH-cam, parts matter %98, I had a high end Denon receiver and I was impressed, now I have a Sony ES receiver and I'm blown away by the sound quality, all because Sony ES uses much better Japanese parts 😮
Thank you. The truth will set us free. I had the RP600M. BEFORE I saw your upgrade video. I found that they were too harsh for nearfield, and did in fact lose midrange/tweeter resolve due to that massive dip in the crossover point. Second: I have upgraded many speakers. Electrolytics in the signal path guarantee nothing more than mediocre sound and degradation in as little as 3 years. I use only metallized poly 1 or 5%. Just that change alone is very prominent in clarity. People don't realize how easy cheap electrolytic caps saturate- especially the tweeter. The 600MII has been hyped as the perfection of the sound, and the reviews strike me as exaggeration.
2 db hotter than the woofer level . . I mean , is that really an issue ? I DEFY the average listener to actually hear that lol . But this is good useful info thank you 🙏
Lol 😂 when the new Klipsch speakers 600 M came out for reviews I commented to the reviewer‘s Klipsch must have been watching Danny Richies GR research videos to improve their product , 🤣
All speaker manufactures should be listening and watching reviewers/researchers/modders. Faster they can improve their product, the faster they can sell you a new pair of speakers :-)
WRONG.... Klipsch has the budget, engineers and facilities to do these stuff..... They don't because they have a house sound, that has been Klipsch tradition. Measurements are easy, but speakers are always a personal taste, that's why manufacturers build a house sound and produce speakers that way.
@@xinjinping8113 I disagree. Any product needs feedback from its outside users and stakeholders. Not just limiting to it's internal resources, as good as they may be.
@@jasons7070 feedback will always be biased. What's good for one is not good for another, put that in thousands of feedback and you can't really put all that into a single product.
Sorry, first time viewer but it will be the last time because ANYONE that watches/wears soccer related gear is someone that I cannot trust. Fail 👎🏼 P.s. My pair of Klipsch RF82-II are not great but they work for my needs (and they're better than anyone I associate with has in place).
I don't get the whole Klipsch sound. I heard a pair of Heresey IV's a few months ago and thought they sounded terrible. They were way too bright and the huge bass driver produced almost no bass. How is that even possible?😀
Very possible. It's what happens when the other drivers are voiced higher than the bass driver, it just cant keep up. We've had the Forte III here in the past and they had the same problems, they need to be rebalanced, and the cabinet braced. The 600M II feels a little week in the bass/mids region due to the boost in the treble. I'm excited to see what these can really do once they're upgraded.
The stuff Klipsch seem to be universally lacking are the Mids which are toned down quite a lot. In Movies and Games their speakers are perfect, but for Music there are certainly better Options.
No, the whole signal does not travel through the nut. Electricity always takes the path of least resistance and making the extra way through the less conductive nut is certainly not that path of least resistance.
HiFi gears are more about good sound and excitement than perfect measurements. Bumps and dips often do more wonders than linearity. No live performance is conducted and recorded in an acoustically perfect environment anyway. Faithful wives don't neccesarily make seductive temptresses.
You bring up good points. There's well accepted best practices in end product target measurements. The only approach that makes peaks/dips acceptable, is full range drivers not saddled by coils, caps, or resistors. Sacrificing smoothness for immediacy, directly coupled to the amp, without the hysteresis time smearing effects that accompanies LCR circuits. All subjective listener testing confirms listeners prefer a smooth freq response over less smooth response. Smooth, but not flat. From the first BBC curve decades ago, to more recent the findings of both Sean Olive and Dr Toole... All the above suggest a gentle downward sloping freq response, ... ie., bass elevated by 6dB or more, relative to treble, a smooth bass heavy tilt to the response. The elephant in the room is the room. Designers obsess over small deviations, yet place those speakers in a room... room resonances, SBIR, poor decay times... trash the speaker's native response ... easily as much as 20dB swings or more! Room optimization is key... ie., placement, distances off adjacent boundaries, minimize the room's impact simply by location; speaker location and listener location.
I'm really excited to hear the difference between klipsch and the XLR. I just bought a sale set of 600s and probably will purchase the upgrade kit depending on how they sound in my environment lol. But I'm as picky as you on frequency levels. You know back in the day most speaker companies focused on exactly what you do and installed them in good solid cabinets. Today they just fail to build a solid foundation. There units that are built right are just way too expensive to bother with.
Agree !.......when the musical envelope is out of balance , lacks the natural coherence ..and the woofer impedance is only 4 Ohms .... it is a NO NO for me......... Even the sensitivity is a lie !
I would never buy fully-assembled or kit-build speakers without the opportunity to first hear them on my system. That leaves out companies that do not have a customer-friendly return policy. I trust my ears, not Klipsch marketing or Danny measurements. Both need to pitch their solutions favorably to make a living. I recently bought the RP-600M ii and it exceeds my expectations in every way. If it hadn't, it would have gone back to Crutchfield. If you don't trust your ears that is a different story. Would anyone marry someone based on the reviews of people who have dated that person before? Or based on their measurements? :) For anyone interested in a good audio match, think of it that way and let your ears rule your decision.
You can use tone controls for the "brightness"! But more importantly understand that our ears and hearing levels aren't universal! Just because it might not be YOUR taste doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the speakers! If you don't like a product then don't buy it PERIOD! No need to make videos on how to improve on it! How about you put your money where Klipsch did or find something else to do with your life smh
He's in sales so he's gonna find a million faults in other products and try to sell you something to fix them. Now he thinks Klipsch fixed their speakers based on his findings. I ain't falling for his thirsty sales tactics. His kits are ridiculously and comically expensive so of course he's going to try his best to make you believe you need to buy them.
Strange that the rp-600m speakers were so well received by reviewers when they came out, I have a pair of rp-160m that I rather like :) nice video as always
I enjoy the Klipsch boost on the high end. As someone who suffers from some hearing loss in that upper mid and treble area I find myself always adjusting the tone control or EQ up (if there is one). Flat response speakers are smooth sounding, but they always sound a little dull to me.
Well said, Bloozestringer. I enjoy the Klipsch sound, too. Klipsch has that assertive, energetic sound; that is also dynamic. Furthermore, Klipsch loud speakers are one of the few speakers available that also has the performance of having a mid-level bass to a playback of most recordings! Klipsch speakers are designed that way so that even bookshelf speakers, small, or very large can reproduce lower bass than other speakers; since they are at an SPL of over 90dB. I am NOT saying any Klipsch bookshelf speakers have very low bass! Although it appears that there is an illusion of lower bass, it actually is, and cannot be there; a woofer driver has to be a minimum of 6, 8, actually 10 inches in diameter. Most likely a Sub-woofer of 10 inch diameter is the only way to get very deep bass; and if you've got plenty of amplification-power there is are sub-woofers that are 12 in. size.🔉🎵
Danny -I am really glad you are going to provide some sound clips. I completely understand the limitations of doing this but some information for us listeners is better than none. The clips, accompanied by your own thoughts and input, is better than just the measurements, in my opinion. I really believe that better quality parts lead to better sound (assuming a good design) and I would really love to hear more comparisons (especially vs. your own designs). Thanks very much for all your hard work. It is really appreciated.
Ok, so I’m confused. Danny, if your DIY speaker kits are so good, why, would one of your employees go out and buy a pair of Klipsch loudspeakers? Also, if phase is such an issue with drivers, why is the problem not replicated with live music? Say, two trumpets in an orchestra? Is it not feasible that they could, cancel each other out? I’m not picking fault, just innocently curious.
There 8s a difference between live sound and recorded sound , I could spend a full day explaining it to you but if you don't know the rudimentary aspects 9f the difference between the two , I would say educate yourself and be humbled , as far as your snyde remark about why if his speakers are so good why would one 9f his employees buy the Klipsch? 🤔 Well some of us ballers have numerous sound rooms and have a list for having several different speaker systems , I myself have 26 different speaker systems between 4 sound rooms , for music and recordings from the earliest of recordings to the 50's ,60's do not sound right with modern speakers , so I use speakers and gear in retrospect to the era 9f the recordings , that's the only way to hear the music how it was meant to be heard and not over exhausted with equipment 6hat had a broader frequency response than the intended . Just saying ,
The sound of a trumpet is composed of many harmonics which are also slightly tuned differently from one trumpet to an other. Thus, even though some harmonics might cancel each other out, others will be in phase and it'll harmonize just fine.
Room correction software can only help so much. Really you want to get your room to a good state, using treatments. Than use room correction software. Room corrections software when it has to correct too much does not sound great in my opinion
Well, I simply posed a couple of innocent questions, with no I intent of being a polemicist or putting the cat amongst the pigeons. Feathers do appear to have been ruffled though. I class myself as an audiophile. I enjoy attentively listening to music and care about how it is reproduced. It does appear though, that like many religious extremists, audiophiles are very quick to defend their passion, even if it wasn’t under attack. Take a ‘chill pill’ and most of all, enjoy the music. After all, isn’t that the collective goal?
With headphone mods I have done I have used modeling clay to add mass to the drivers and cups to help with the response and resonances. For the port resonances you mentioned, do you think adding mass with that method would help? Or would it just shift the resonance frequency?
It would have to be something viscous to effectively damp cabinet walls - it has to change mechanical energy into something else, say heat. Port resonance depends mainly on ports dimensions and a bit on the shape. I guess it's location might have some influence. Of course internal cabinet resonance might leak through the port as well.
Can't wait to hear the sound clips, Danny. If what I hear from the speakers do sound better in The A - B comparison I will definitely be purchasing the kit. I'm not very tech savvy but I think I'll be able to figure it out. It'll be a fun little project that I can be proud of. Provided I don't blow the house up in the process 😂
Hi, what do you think of the old Klipsch RP-160M? Given my budget I would like to buy them. Or, in the same price range, the Kef Q150, or other brands. You can give me an advice? I trust your judgement, you are very prepared. Thank you.
Those two speakers are really different. Almost apples and oranges, I love things like that, used to work in a stereo store and we would experiment with often wildly different equipment and find what we liked for different types of music and budgets.
i hould love for you to do a pair of jamo s803. just because i have a pair and would to see where they stack up and what you would do to them. thanks for all the work you guys do have a great day.
Exposing these manufacturers of using garbage parts, even on their high-end products is a slap in the face to the consumer. I had the Klipsch Heresy IV's, what a joke. Outside the Paul Klipsch history, cabinet and marketing, inside is garbage from steel stamped cheap woofer basket, plastic horns, garbage all in the crossover and cabinet resonance due to lack of bracing. All that was nice was the box and grill.
@@hoth2112 Super. I imagine what we'll find out is that most of Klipsch's offerings are overpriced junk. I just don't need to watch any more of those, personally....that could just be me, though. :)
I do find the trolls here rather funny because they keep on complaining that he's trying to sell them something, which of course he is. In doing so, they're not realizing that what he's selling them is an improvement on a product that someone else is trying to sell them. This is just how marketing and business works if you don't like his product you don't need to watch his videos. If you love the product as the manufacturer put it out and you don't think that it needs any improvement as you own it and find it an essential gain for your soul to have it attached to you and therefore I can't handle a simple criticism of a failing of the speaker, don't watch. Of course Danny is trying to sell you something, he puts these videos out there to inform people that he has an improvement for sale that he by way of his talents has come up with. Having said as much beyond a bit of a problem with the initial LGK speakers his products are pretty well respected by most everyone out there and an upgrade to an off-the-shelf speaker that he could put together will likely be a pretty good Improvement over the market-friendly ones that he is dealing with here. You need to understand marketplace speakers are designed to meet goals that are designed by marketers. They're not necessarily designed for audiophiles or to sound as accurate as is possible. They're designed to meet the demands of both accountants and a probable hole in a manufacturer's lineup. Sure there are speakers out there that are at this price point that sound great. But, are the audiophile and are they accurate? Give given the costs involved in R&D, shipping, marketing and simple supply chain issues likely not. What is neat about Danny's company is he seems to be part of a small group of small speaker companies they're actually producing pretty damn good products that often beat mainline ones at a higher price. The old Legacy audio, Joseph Acoustics and a few others are tiny companies that produce products that you can buy for far less than the amount of coin you would have to purchase a B&W Nautilus at and yet still sound fantastic. Of course he's marketing this to you that's kind of the point of his company. But he's not selling you snake oil, he's selling you his oil.
Did you post the sound clips? I hate to say it but you have to accept the fact that clips is all we've got nowadays - no one can buy the XLR, build it, and listen to it just for fun. We can't A/B demo 2 speakers anymore like we used to and most of us are make blind purchases. Any light is better than complete darkness.
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I just ordered these speakers and I will not be purchasing any upgrade kit. I have watched lots of reviews from very credible sound experts and they all have nothing but wonderful things to say about these speakers. These guys are of course going to tell you what they need to tell you to push you towards buying their upgrade products. It's called marketing gimmicks. He trashes the old RP 600Ms as if they are garbage, I watched patiently but after listening to him and going to his website, I see the connection between what he says and what he is trying to achieve. One can always get better speakers, but don't tell me these speakers are not a good build, because they are. I trust the reviews from real independent reviewers, not someone who is trying to sell me something. Don't get me wrong, I know this guy knows a lot about sound and speakers, but he is a businessman and he will be out of business if he tells you the speakers are excellent and need no upgrade.
First of all, I haven't designed anything for this model yet, despite many requests.
Secondly, the upgrades are something I like doing. It is a good way to help people get started in DIY projects that are fun and improve their listening experience. It is a very small segment of our business here at GR Research. So it is not something we are doing as a money maker. I don't even charge anything for the design work.
Performance wise, these are pretty low on the scale, but If you are happy with them that's great.
Did you get offended, that Danny found a flaw in your design? Because you surely must be a designer at Klipsch, or at the marketing department? Sales dropped? You do sound so when defending the old 600:s that have a valley in the response. And a hot tweeter that is so fatiguing and especially for my tinnitus.
Danny is a snake oil specialist. Best to keep your dollars from this guy. Check Audio Science Review. They call Danny out over there and expose him for the B.S. schill he is.
Okay the klipsch house sound is like a bullhorn.
be ware that a lot of those so called reviewers don't measure the frequency responce and identify what the issues are and what you can expect its all just subjective blabber with one or two exceptions. Why do you think he gets sent so many Klipsch speakers? if you watch all his upgrades as I have, or just search for and only watch the Klipsch upgrades (and B&W while were on the subject). you'll see how badly designed many of them are. Amir at Audio Science review gives a very good intro on speaker design and measurements and also measures and reviews Danny's upgrade of the RP600M.
I think I'll find a vintage good-looking console stereo, say an old Curtis Mathes system. Looks great in the family room and fun to listen to music again. Instead of listening to where the sound is, I'll just enjoy music and skip the measurements. Thanks
Yeah, takes me back to when I was a kid, lying on the living room floor with my head centered between the speakers of our 1970 Magnavox console, spinning my Allman Bros. albums. Right there on the floor with my head buried in the mud...the muddy sound. "Live at Fillmore East" sounded more like "Stuck Outside The Fillmore Without a Ticket", but I didn't know any better till I could afford my own Radio Shack "Realistic" hifi system for my room. Then I smiled, and bought more records.
I personally don't like klipsch. It sounds like there is no upper midrange, and the tweeter dispersion was bouncing all over the place. Just my experience.
Excited to hear the sound clips! Please, please, PLEASE have the clips synchronized and just transition from one setup to the other so we can more easily hear the differences. Do this and I guarantee people will hear the differences. If you just play one speaker set for a while, then play the other for a while, it won't be as obvious to those of us that don't have as trained ears as you.
You are going to be disappointed because he always find something,is his business to find something wrong otherwise he can't sell the fix
@@glengatt3941 What am I going to be disappointed about? I didn't set any expectations for what or how much or whether anyone would like one speaker or the other. I only suggested the method so we could hear *some kind of difference*. I've found this to be extremely helpful when other reviewers have done this. Is it perfect? No. Does it capture everything? No. Will it show a difference if done how I describe. You bet. It will absolutely show relative differences. *That* is all I expect to hear. Since, as Danny put it, what we are able to experience through the recording is only a small percentage of the other differences that can be heard in-person, I'm definitely going to recommend a method that will show the differences in what *can* be heard through TH-cam.
You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to agree with Danny. I'm not taking any sides. One reason I love audio is that there is plenty of subjectivity. There are so many ways to enjoy it and so many "tastes". Yours is probably different than mine and that's cool.
I'm m not an expert but sometimes you say for example that the problem is the cabinet and the fix is a crossover ,can a bad cabinet be fixed like that, and you sell speakers too have you ever reviewed one of your products? True is that the way you talk about other products or the way just throwed that base driver on the table like is garbage not everyone can just go and spend thousands of € on a pair of speakers I think you do better with just some humbleness, just my opinion
sound clips via your pc etc really only show tonal and detail diffs. its ok but nothing like being there. in that sense i dont give them too much weight when the products are closely matched. soundstage, phase issues, placement within soundstage.. none of that comes thru via you tube. just saying.
@@veroman007 We're all in agreement on this.
Ever since Audiovox acquired Klipsch, profit over quality reigned supreme!
YES , I had a conversation with the dealer of Klipsch in my country and he agrees.....
But remember the La Scalas are still some of the best sounding speakers out there.
@@scottypalmer2158 whatever
dude, it's a $749 pr of speakers . that's expected from a company that makes speakers for every price point- - a serous listener would pass on these and move on up the speaker chain -
@@5Antvin what speakers would you suggest ?
Waiting for the day when there is no more ferromagnetic material in components that are part of the amplified signal chain.
I hear ya, and nonferrous nuts and washers the delta is just a matter of cents.
@@ericharrelson2045 and also sense! Common sense! Lol
A ferro nut could be considered a choke making a nice high frequency filter
A steel nut is not going to affect the sound. If it did affect the sound, it wouldn't be noticeable by the human ear. Everything doesn't have to be flawless and perfect for a set of speakers to play at their absolute best. The human ears can only hear certain frequencies. 99% of the Data charts frequencies can't be heard by the human ears. This means there is absolutely no reason besides OCD to change something that doesn't need changed. Your OCD has gotten a strong hold on your common sense and it's infused to you forever.
He runs a business first and foremost
Hopefully you guys will use Ron's(New Record day)Binaural dummy head for the comparison.
Hey Danny, just letting you know there is something up with your website if you weren't already aware. Links are not working, domain seems to be highjacked??
I was just looking if anyone posted about the website being redirected
Great to hear sound clips coming, will be a game changer for the channel imo.
I purchased these speakers following the SG review and his passion left me really satisfied. It was a no-brainer purchase for me. If anything really positive can be said is that my hifi purchase have continued and taken me to some very surprising places. The dealer has become a friend and is going to open his own business. My research enabled me to obtain high efficiency loudspeakers, new turntable and experiment with vintage amps. I have since bought expensive second hand loudspeakers that I could never have afforded when new. I still have the RP-600M’s. Whatever faults you find they still remain a significant upgrade for many who had simply abandoned this industry altogether. Look out for a good second hand pair and enjoy! Well done Klipsch.
I bought a pair as well back then. I think they really depend on the rest of the system if they are to sound good. I had initially thought they were very fatiguing and almost gave up and then put them in low power system in another room with a tube preamp and they now sound really good.
But these speakers aren't high efficiency as Danny mentioned. Actually no speaker is high efficiency but some are high sensitivity, which these are not. A 102dB sensitive speaker is no more than about 10% efficient. Not very efficient is it?
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I wasn't speaking to their efficiency really. I was speaking I had a very forward sounding amp, and a very crisp transparent dac in a small room it was harsh. I set up another 'warmer' system which is lower power and they were just right.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt sounds right, excuse the pun. I found some much better loudspeakers with more details, spaciousness, precision without sounding harsh. The RP’s are now in my office with a vintage technics amp and loudness ON
@@bhob666 Yes the Klipsch sound can be somewhat tamed with tubes.
If you can build a better speaker than you should, go out source parts, material's, factories, then market them and sell them see if you can make a profit. Guys like this are never happy. He's the kind of guy that would say I can improve these other $200,000 speakers. Now if you just want to sell "your" up grades do that else where.
holy! moly! 10 years awesome that was Klipsch. my 2 Klipsch powered bass speakers have failed amps 1 in 6 months 1 in 8 months at 850.00 you would expect 10 years life expectancy but Klipsch was sold to a Chinese company and now it is all Chinese parts. literally 1000s have experienced this. tried multiple times to contact Klipsch with no results. and no replacement parts we can find so i no longer recommend Powered Klipsch,, also latest technical look at what they are pumping out is not good. i have 12 passive klipsch, not the best sound through the scale but at least they are not $850.00 bricks
I have hyperacusis and bad tinnitus.Any harshness in an audio signal is immediately apparent to me.Immediately apparent becomes discomfort after a short while.My friends that used to own an audio outlet used to use me as a "mine canary"with their systems.I could pick out anything that was not right very quickly.This is why i was looking at purchasing one of your single driver DIY speakers.They will not have the harshness of a tweeter system by default.And the parts you use will smooth them out even more.Thanks and take care Danny.
Probably the most honest review on these I've seen.. and it's really appreciated. I just received a pair of these today, got them for $449 on black Friday, so I feel pretty good about that purchase, even if they aren't perfect.. next year is wharfedale.. ;)
Thanks for the review. Nice details.
would you show on a scope steel nut VS non-mag.nut?
Also coming late to the party, first of all, thanks a lot for these reviews. Even if I tend to disagree here and there, I still learn a lot, and that's what matters.
Somebody may have asked this before - as it is an obvious question: why do you think Klipsch designed and sold a speaker with such notable dip at 1.5 kHz (first version)? I assume they were well aware of this fact, and I also assume that they have engineers how probably came up with a similar alternative filter design as you presented.
Still, they ended with the "dipped" version.
Do you think they presented different versions to some test-listeners, and maybe some thought that the dip in this frequency range actually sounded softer or more accommodating? I know that lowering the frequency in the 1-2 kHz range is not uncommon for that very reason.
They don't go through anything like that during the design process. No company throws a design out there like the first 600M on purpose. They got killed for it and had to go back to the drawing board and fix the problems. The result is the new version.
Haha cheap audio man's Audiophiles are full of crap video is the first suggestion by TH-cam under this video. Their algorithms are listening
I got some binding posts for $14 each for my home built speakers. Every part of the binding posts are brass, and plastic for the bases.
I adore my Klipsch BUT I completely agree with you! The tweeter is 2-3db louder than the woofer and it sucks 😢 I do love the dynamics of my Klipsch R-51m and the off axis performance from the wave guide but Klipsch needs to replace the metal cone woofer with a stiff compliance paper coned woofer and focus more on the presentation of the midrange rather than the higher frequencies.
Unfortunately, these types of speakers are designed for mass market non audiophile people. Honestly, I can't blame them if they are trying to make money
I wouldn't write klipsch off completely though. I really love my hp-3 headphones.
I hadn’t changed my speakers for 10 years and rave reviews helped in my Klipsch purchase. I have since moved on to something better. I’m not an audiophile because I don’t own Dire Straits-Love Over Gold. This sends shivers down my back :-)
why on earth do they feel the need to lie about spl??? its still fairly efficient albeit the impedance aint great.
Marketing hype. Most people don't verify and I agree that 90 dB/W/m is still better than average. I can easily see why tube fans like the 600M's better. The much higher treble impedance shelves the frequency response with low damping factor amps.
I don't believe that I would be able tell the difference in sound with a steel nut versus something else.
I think people want wonky speakers that only work well with certain recording balances. It's not like you didn't know. That said, having issues at @1Khz is not good/inexcusable.
i.knew when Danny mentioned about opening the back of Sandy's golden ear amt tweeters he knew his shit.. I have audiovector s and the highs are awesome.. I trust his take much more the the people who review speakers who have been working at retail.stores or have no background in any engineering of any sort they are all late to the movie ...Erin is another good one for sure! not that there isn't good enough sound on the cheap today but I would not put my money on most of these men for the best sound for dollars...
Lol
Perhaps a day will arrive where holographic performances by artists in your living room will replace speakers imperfectly reproducing sound.
2:36 It won't affect the sound enough to be audible under any conditions.
I more or less agree with this, except klipsch is supposed to be a high end brand how much price difference is a brass nut going to be that they can’t use them instead of steel maybe a few cents per hundred. I own 6 rp 280’s as my surround and a 64III center channel that’s not a cheap setup they can afford some better quality parts in their stuff at the prices they charge.
It is audible.
@@dannyrichie9743 To an untrained listener ?
@@great100m Using a good system like ours, yes.
@@a1racer441 the RP600Ms aren't supposed to be a top of the line 2 way bookshelf speaker, so it's ok
Just got my RP 6000 ii. Totally in love. I upgraded some 22 year old Bose speakers. Perfect for my smaller 16x16 room
They're decent in the time ive had them up playing, but they're too bright for me, especially with any sort of tow-in.
I'm quite ensitive to any boosts in the 1-3KHz range, so rebalancing them will make them much more enjoyable over their stock performance, especially at louder levels.
Still not spectacular. There are cheaper speakers that sound better.
@@sptauto I’m sure, but wasn’t price sensitive. Just wanted something nice that didn’t overpower the room.
@@ChowderTIO Makes no sense. Why pay more for less? Those aren't exactly very high demands.
@@sptauto I spent an evening reading reviews, bought an 8 speaker set; it arrived in 2 days, and works great. I don’t watch that much tv anymore, so it wasn’t a major decision. I also love the new Denon receiver as well.
YOU'RE SO RIGHT, KLIPSH DIDN'T PROPERLY TUNE THE "CROSS OVER". FOR SOME STUPID REASON, THEY SIMPLY RUSHED THAT 600M TO MARKET.
Skipped klipsch because of reviews. In the end, kept the RP-500M ii. Could’ve saved $$ in returns had I not listened to reviews. Cheap parts or not, best sound.
Box store speakers are always poor quality, poor sounding speakers. Klipsch is destroying their name with these.
Another TH-cam reviewer confirmed that Klipsch’s chief engineer saw Danny’s 600M video and claimed it was unfair due to budget constraints and frequency response voicing that is part of the brand.
I’ve heard that same thing and it cracks me up. Part of the “house sound” is an out of phase relationship between the tweeter and woofer? Uh huh, sure…
@@Newrecordday2013 I hope your review compares 600M Mark 2 with JBL 530
Yes the "house sound" is appealing to deaf people lol....
@@pedrocols even reviewers have a house sound. I would like to review the reviewers. So people can pick the right reviewers for their ears.
Ron Weasley
Hello, Stainless Steel is not a magnetic material. You should have known this.
2:01 to 2:14 it just enogh to understand what he is talking about..
Hey, you forgot to talk about the influience of those ferric screw that influience the sound! I suspect the "influience" it will apear somewhere on those graphics you put up in the front of our eyes, bit you forgot completely to speak about the screw influience...
You looked very affected by this.
Shame, shame, shame on someone..🙈
Danny, please consider hiring a recording engineer with a binaural Neumann KU 100 dummy head, GML preamps, and high end Lynx/Crane Song/RME/Prism converters to get a true binaural sound from the sweet spot in your listening room. With this, you’d greatly increase that 20% of differences to be heard on headphones. A listener on a nice but even low priced pair like the Status CB-1 would be able to get a much better feel for the differences than other speaker demo recording methods, which are often haphazard at best.
Measurement mics in ORTF at the sweet spot can do a decent job, but for a serious listening endeavor, I’d recommend the above. Just this experienced audiophile recordist/mastering engineer’s 10 cents.
What's the point of listening to differences in speakers over headphones? That's just crazy logic.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Nothing illogical about it. Purely the science of acoustics. No recording of a speaker is going to represent the original space, transient response, etc., and bringing stereo fields into this convolutes the issue. Binaural is not stereo. It is the absence of spatial interaction and cancellation that can only be experienced in headphones. This is why and how headphone studio mixing room simulations exist with some level of success. Is it a perfect 1:1? Not by any stretch. But it can give you far more spatial realism and depth, tonal responsiveness, representing the original system and space, magnified by the quality of the headphones and preampfification.
Say you mic two speakers directly, right and left, with measurement mics. Playing this back on any type of system will completely destroy any imaging and staging in the recorded system. Now, say you take my suggestion for a quality binaural recording, but you instead play it back over a speaker system rather than decent to great headphones - the imaging will completely fall apart on speakers, due to cancellations and interactions in the stereo field, in contrast to being fairly accurately reproduced spatially within a binaural (headset) system, where there is no crosstalk between drivers, placed directly over/by your ears.
There’s a reason high end binaural microphones like the Neumann KU 100 and others exist. The 1:1 reproduction would be the most transparent headset and signal chain possible. Recording with this and playing back on speakers, like you’ll hear from many “player position” virtual instruments recorded using this mic, will sound interesting perhaps, depending on the placement in a mix, but not at all representing the actual position and staging like headphones produce. And to clarify, I’m not making an argument for headphones over speakers at all - this is simply to say that headphones are binaural in their spatial representation, whereas speakers are stereo. Trying to “put you in the room” with a speaker demo? Binaural in and out is the best way to perform this cloudy and dismal endeavor 🙂
Dont worry, we know a guy with one. 😉
Seems like overkill for a budget speaker...
DMark2 The budget speaker is just the vehicle used to deliver a message about how cheap parts hold back speakers. He’s cracked open plenty of +2K models that have the same cheesy parts in them. As consumers we should be more concerned about pretty boxes filled with crap than Danny’s videos.
What a mean review of the klipsch rp-600m II speakers.... It seems that the entire klipsch engineering team has no idea about anything... A bunch of ignoramuses who make their living thanks to deaf and hard of hearing people who love their speakers
I rly dont get this, why cant the manufactors just spend an xtra 20$ on good crossover parts, then put the price up 50 bucks for all i care, just dont give me chinese crap
I changed the signal capacitors in my Prima Luna prologue amp to a supposed expensive upgrade paper and oil caps. Although subtle they took away from separation in the mid frequencies but improved on the bass. I was about to sell the amp a year after that because of lack of interest in listening to music. I changed the capacitors back to the originals before selling and the life came back and two years later I still enjoy the sound and am not selling it. The point is the caps can make a subtle but very important difference to the enjoyment of listening
I would never change out the electrolytics in my main amps, they are in their for a reason. However, in phono stages, and speakers I have changed out all my electrolytic capacitors, with paper in oils, and poly caps, and boy oh boy, that is where great gains can be had.
Out of curiosity were they Jupiter caps?
Swapping out the cheap Chinese caps is a no brainer, coupling especially
A major speaker company selling speakers out of phase is not acceptable. On principle alone, not a brand that would ever get my $. As I don't like their sound in general, not an issue regardless.
He is full of shit. Buy what sounds good to you
@@rydoggsc2 Sure, what ever you say. While I don't always agree with him on some topics (e.g., cables and wire...), he's forgotten more in an afternoon about speaker design than you and I combined in a life time. His experience and background in the audio biz, speaker design specifically, is matched by very few. You'd be far better off posting less about how full of crap he is, and learning more from him. True story...
Finally some A/B listening tests with upgrades. Seems it’s not only Klipsch that’s been doing some listening. Thanks GR!
I've heard you guys... Honestly though we do tons of listening comparisons here. I spent all morning doing that. I do understand the need to bring you guys along as best I can, and let everyone in on the listening somehow rather than me just telling you the results. So I am going to try and do that this time.
I just spent six hours with my son listening to all kinds of music on his Gen 1 RP-600Ms. We had a great time; they sounded great. That’s not to say they sounded accurate, just great - without A/B, it would’ve been hard to tell. All I know is, they were really really fun.
A lot of people love them, they sell very well. Not my type of speaker but all that matters is that you and your son do. Nice bonding moment listening to music with your boy 👍
Old school black and white TV's can be fun to watch. If they are all you've ever seen then you'll never know what you're missing.
@@dannyrichie9743 Hardly all I've ever known..., but thanks for assuming and then implying that.
@@NosEL34 Well said. They're not my cup of tea, either. I'm just saying they're fun.
@@solitarysoul7604 By comparison, we have color TV's in high def and 85" wide.
You can either pay more to upgrade your speakers or pay more for a better pair of speakers.
There's No guarantee that a better speaker will have better quality parts. We occasionally get speakers many times the price of the 600M & often times have many of the same cheap parts or in some cases worse..
Nice breakdown .
Thanks Randy 👍🏻
well. your buddy Ron thinks they are a heaping pile of you know what.
Hi, after seeing a lot of you're video, I would like to see one with an old vintage speaker like the Celestion Ditton 44 or Celestion Ditton 44 series 2. I've got a pair of Ditton series 2 and I've alredy upgrade the crossover with good parts and I'm curious about how would you handle these ones .
So people pay 1k more for a speaker that has 20$ more in parts in the crossover?
awsome cant wait for the sound clips
They’re as good as 🇨🇳 can make ‘em lol! (!). 😂
Klipsch's feedback loop disconnected.
Exactly, it really makes me shake my head when these people put sound tracks of two different speakers in the same system cause you can't actually hear the full difference without being in the actual room! And on top of that there is nothing else on the video except the music sound tracks!
And you're listening to them on X playback device which is potentially coloring and most certainly altering the sound as well.
I don't think the demos are completely useless however you're not hearing the gear as you would in person so it does beg the "what's the point" question to some extent.
I've also watched a number of them where comments gravitate to the brighter tipped up speaker and they declare the apparent clarity as the higher quality. Yet I know in room that some of those speakers are going to be far less enjoyable over hours of high volume listening compared to something that may sound veiled or rolled off in comparison during the sound clip.
If you're inexperienced, those clips will probably just lead you more astray. Nothing can replace living with and experiencing gear first hand.
I would love an a/b test of the same crossover but with”quality” parts. If they have the same values they should sound the same, basic physics. Prove it makes a difference.
It would seem different materials, approaches, and orientations, affect speed and stored energy in components.
@@FOH3663 no
Absolutely he should so this. However, if he is actually reworking the crossover frequencies and reversing the phase on the tweeters, then that should be easily audible. People do buy these for the V-shaped sound signature though, so "correcting" it with 300-400$ worth of parts makes no sense, as you should have just bought Polk Reserves or something else nuetral with that 1200$ you've now invested. I have a set of RP160ms that run in the B channel on my system, an AXR100 driving some vintage Jamo Concert 11 towers, and I like to switch over and listen to them when I am streaming lofi on youtube or some other lossy-format poorly mixed music(2000s Rock comes to mind). They don't reveal the suck inherent in bad recordings, and make some of my favorite songs sound like nails on a chalkboard.
I am waiting for you to respond to the Whafferdale Lintons and the KLH model Five with competeing designs by you.
Danny already praised the KLH 5 and called the Linton's a near miss.
The Linton's got a full upgrade.
For the KLH, it's just a swap of the caps in the tweeter and mid circuits, along with a few sheets of NoRez. If we had the KLH for longer, we probably would have done a full upgrade.
In both cases, we only had one of each speaker at different times, and we also don't install the upgrades. Makes it much more difficult to do comparison between them vs before/after the upgrade.
I understand better designed electronics may make graph more leanier (and sound charactersictics better depending on each one taste). But not clear how without changing the cabinet and especially the drivers, one can remove all its shortcomings. I find mostly it boils to one's taste... and each design has its strengths and weaknesses. But, inspite of so many requests, why don't you show the differences. In several channels, with proper headset we can surely hear the differences...
But many thanks to your feedbacks which help manufacturers to improve their design/quality and stay competitive.
Parts quality used will have a huge impact on clarity, detail, resolution, etc. So it is much more then just correcting amplitude problems.
Recording those before and after in a way that you can hear them over a TH-cam video is pretty challenging, but we are working on it.
@@dannyrichie9743 thank you so much. Looking forward for comparison which helps to get feel on the major differences like details, tonality etc. (understand may not show in full the improvements on sound stage etc).
Which one are better?
Shortly,please.
Nice work!! I'm enjoying these videos more and more. I went to a hifi expo in my hometown this past weekend. I've been waiting for 3 years due to covid cancellations. I have to say that I was disappointed in nearly every system I listened to except for 2. One was valued around $400k and it absolutely rocked in every way. Gryphon, my God you make some equipment! The other was comprised of McIntosh and Sonus Faber, somewhere close to $80k and it was fantastic even though the speakers were lowly in the Sonus Faber range.
Nice work, maybe the best on TH-cam, parts matter %98, I had a high end Denon receiver and I was impressed, now I have a Sony ES receiver and I'm blown away by the sound quality, all because Sony ES uses much better Japanese parts 😮
Thank you. The truth will set us free.
I had the RP600M. BEFORE I saw your upgrade video. I found that they were too harsh for nearfield, and did in fact lose midrange/tweeter resolve due to that massive dip in the crossover point.
Second: I have upgraded many speakers. Electrolytics in the signal path guarantee nothing more than mediocre sound and degradation in as little as 3 years. I use only metallized poly 1 or 5%. Just that change alone is very prominent in clarity. People don't realize how easy cheap electrolytic caps saturate- especially the tweeter.
The 600MII has been hyped as the perfection of the sound, and the reviews strike me as exaggeration.
The video sounds better, did you change mics?
I may have gotten a little closer to it, but it is the same.
2 db hotter than the woofer level . . I mean , is that really an issue ? I DEFY the average listener to actually hear that lol . But this is good useful info thank you 🙏
That is a very notable problem and can cause fatigue to set in quickly.
I've enjoyed some of the content here but the snake oil nonsense is becoming depressing.
Sorry, but this is a no snake oil channel.
@@dannyrichie9743 Touche 🤣
Lol 😂 when the new Klipsch speakers 600 M came out for reviews I commented to the reviewer‘s Klipsch must have been watching Danny Richies GR research videos to improve their product , 🤣
All speaker manufactures should be listening and watching reviewers/researchers/modders. Faster they can improve their product, the faster they can sell you a new pair of speakers :-)
WRONG.... Klipsch has the budget, engineers and facilities to do these stuff..... They don't because they have a house sound, that has been Klipsch tradition. Measurements are easy, but speakers are always a personal taste, that's why manufacturers build a house sound and produce speakers that way.
@@xinjinping8113 I disagree. Any product needs feedback from its outside users and stakeholders. Not just limiting
to it's internal resources, as good as they may be.
@@jasons7070 feedback will always be biased. What's good for one is not good for another, put that in thousands of feedback and you can't really put all that into a single product.
@@xinjinping8113 you are 100% wrong
Isn't klipsch the word for the sound of splashy cymbals? Of course they have to tune the tweeter higher than the woofer to live up to their name lol
Sorry, first time viewer but it will be the last time because ANYONE that watches/wears soccer related gear is someone that I cannot trust.
Fail 👎🏼
P.s.
My pair of Klipsch RF82-II are not great but they work for my needs (and they're better than anyone I associate with has in place).
See you....
I don't get the whole Klipsch sound. I heard a pair of Heresey IV's a few months ago and thought they sounded terrible. They were way too bright and the huge bass driver produced almost no bass. How is that even possible?😀
Very possible. It's what happens when the other drivers are voiced higher than the bass driver, it just cant keep up. We've had the Forte III here in the past and they had the same problems, they need to be rebalanced, and the cabinet braced. The 600M II feels a little week in the bass/mids region due to the boost in the treble. I'm excited to see what these can really do once they're upgraded.
The cabinet produces a lot of bass though!
I agree as another chum has these and just spent a fortune on a REL T7i subwoofer!!!!!
No Bass ? Klipsch are Second prolly only behind Polk when it comes to rumbling Bass. Try the 8000F to see what I mean
The stuff Klipsch seem to be universally lacking are the Mids which are toned down quite a lot. In Movies and Games their speakers are perfect, but for Music there are certainly better Options.
No, the whole signal does not travel through the nut. Electricity always takes the path of least resistance and making the extra way through the less conductive nut is certainly not that path of least resistance.
Yes, but it does affect the signal transfer.
HiFi gears are more about good sound and excitement than perfect measurements. Bumps and dips often do more wonders than linearity. No live performance is conducted and recorded in an acoustically perfect environment anyway. Faithful wives don't neccesarily make seductive temptresses.
You bring up good points.
There's well accepted best practices in end product target measurements.
The only approach that makes peaks/dips acceptable, is full range drivers not saddled by coils, caps, or resistors. Sacrificing smoothness for immediacy, directly coupled to the amp, without the hysteresis time smearing effects that accompanies LCR circuits.
All subjective listener testing confirms listeners prefer a smooth freq response over less smooth response.
Smooth, but not flat.
From the first BBC curve decades ago, to more recent the findings of both Sean Olive and Dr Toole...
All the above suggest a gentle downward sloping freq response, ... ie., bass elevated by 6dB or more, relative to treble, a smooth bass heavy tilt to the response.
The elephant in the room is the room. Designers obsess over small deviations, yet place those speakers in a room... room resonances, SBIR, poor decay times... trash the speaker's native response ... easily as much as 20dB swings or more!
Room optimization is key... ie., placement, distances off adjacent boundaries, minimize the room's impact simply by location; speaker location and listener location.
@@FOH3663 Quite true ! A good deal the audiophile can do tailor the sound closer to his liking.
Oh boy, u destroy dreams.....🤣🤣🤣
Would be interesting to compare with Polk reserve R200.
If someone sends them in we'd be happy to look at it.
I'm really excited to hear the difference between klipsch and the XLR. I just bought a sale set of 600s and probably will purchase the upgrade kit depending on how they sound in my environment lol.
But I'm as picky as you on frequency levels.
You know back in the day most speaker companies focused on exactly what you do and installed them in good solid cabinets.
Today they just fail to build a solid foundation. There units that are built right are just way too expensive to bother with.
Agree !.......when the musical envelope is out of balance , lacks the natural coherence ..and the woofer impedance is only 4 Ohms .... it is a NO NO for me.........
Even the sensitivity is a lie !
I would never buy fully-assembled or kit-build speakers without the opportunity to first hear them on my system. That leaves out companies that do not have a customer-friendly return policy. I trust my ears, not Klipsch marketing or Danny measurements. Both need to pitch their solutions favorably to make a living.
I recently bought the RP-600M ii and it exceeds my expectations in every way. If it hadn't, it would have gone back to Crutchfield. If you don't trust your ears that is a different story.
Would anyone marry someone based on the reviews of people who have dated that person before? Or based on their measurements? :) For anyone interested in a good audio match, think of it that way and let your ears rule your decision.
You can use tone controls for the "brightness"! But more importantly understand that our ears and hearing levels aren't universal! Just because it might not be YOUR taste doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the speakers! If you don't like a product then don't buy it PERIOD! No need to make videos on how to improve on it! How about you put your money where Klipsch did or find something else to do with your life smh
30 different Klipsch speakers are sent to us for upgrades for a reason.
😅look at yourselves! if you don’t like his comment’s don’t read it!
He's in sales so he's gonna find a million faults in other products and try to sell you something to fix them. Now he thinks Klipsch fixed their speakers based on his findings. I ain't falling for his thirsty sales tactics. His kits are ridiculously and comically expensive so of course he's going to try his best to make you believe you need to buy them.
Hey guys! Can you help me? I have $650 to buy a pair of speakers. What is the best value for money in this price range? Thanks!
Build one of our X Series kits.
Strange that the rp-600m speakers were so well received by reviewers when they came out, I have a pair of rp-160m that I rather like :) nice video as always
Agreed. But those measurements show obvious design flaws. I guess that is the Klipsch "house sound"...?
A dip in that area can sometimes sound nice.
Hi
You should let us listen the before and after .
Thanks
That's in the works
Sensitivity is not accurate...
Please check review Elac DBR-62
Danny you're the guy !!! Excellent video !!!
I enjoy the Klipsch boost on the high end. As someone who suffers from some hearing loss in that upper mid and treble area I find myself always adjusting the tone control or EQ up (if there is one). Flat response speakers are smooth sounding, but they always sound a little dull to me.
Well said, Bloozestringer. I enjoy the Klipsch sound, too. Klipsch has that assertive, energetic sound; that is also dynamic. Furthermore, Klipsch loud speakers are one of the few speakers available that also has the performance of having a mid-level bass to a playback of most recordings!
Klipsch speakers are designed that way so that even bookshelf speakers, small, or very large can reproduce lower bass than other speakers; since they are at an SPL of over 90dB.
I am NOT saying any Klipsch bookshelf speakers have very low bass! Although it appears that there is an illusion of lower bass, it actually is, and cannot be there; a woofer driver has to be a minimum of 6, 8, actually 10 inches in diameter. Most likely a Sub-woofer of 10 inch diameter is the only way to get very deep bass; and if you've got plenty of amplification-power there is are sub-woofers that are 12 in. size.🔉🎵
Listening to the accountants
Danny -I am really glad you are going to provide some sound clips. I completely understand the limitations of doing this but some information for us listeners is better than none. The clips, accompanied by your own thoughts and input, is better than just the measurements, in my opinion. I really believe that better quality parts lead to better sound (assuming a good design) and I would really love to hear more comparisons (especially vs. your own designs). Thanks very much for all your hard work. It is really appreciated.
Professional Klipsch hit piece?
Andrej Kramarić on the t-shirt!
Thanks Danny! Could you do the Polk R200 next?
Only if someone sends one in. :P
Excellent Vid. You are correct Sir, too many customers think they know it all & my 40+ years in the industry mean nothing.
And you're not alone to experience that ..........
Ok, so I’m confused. Danny, if your DIY speaker kits are so good, why, would one of your employees go out and buy a pair of Klipsch loudspeakers? Also, if phase is such an issue with drivers, why is the problem not replicated with live music? Say, two trumpets in an orchestra? Is it not feasible that they could, cancel each other out?
I’m not picking fault, just innocently curious.
There 8s a difference between live sound and recorded sound , I could spend a full day explaining it to you but if you don't know the rudimentary aspects 9f the difference between the two , I would say educate yourself and be humbled , as far as your snyde remark about why if his speakers are so good why would one 9f his employees buy the Klipsch? 🤔 Well some of us ballers have numerous sound rooms and have a list for having several different speaker systems , I myself have 26 different speaker systems between 4 sound rooms , for music and recordings from the earliest of recordings to the 50's ,60's do not sound right with modern speakers , so I use speakers and gear in retrospect to the era 9f the recordings , that's the only way to hear the music how it was meant to be heard and not over exhausted with equipment 6hat had a broader frequency response than the intended . Just saying ,
The sound of a trumpet is composed of many harmonics which are also slightly tuned differently from one trumpet to an other. Thus, even though some harmonics might cancel each other out, others will be in phase and it'll harmonize just fine.
@@evanschrisitian2499 eggszacly, my man .
@@jasontimothywells9895 My only comment or question would be how do you know what was intended?
Regarding your first question: It appears to be simply an experiment with a very popular and widely reviewed speaker model. That's all.
How much does "room correction" help or not with this? My Onkyo has a room correction program built in.
These speakers need a lot more than room correction.
@@dannyrichie9743 I just wondered if it made ANY difference.
Room correction software can only help so much. Really you want to get your room to a good state, using treatments. Than use room correction software. Room corrections software when it has to correct too much does not sound great in my opinion
"Room correction" is not "speaker correction". 🤷♂️
ZERO. Can't fix time/phase errors with room correction. That is a fallacy.
Good to see you, Danny, my Pedest'ale Tower speakers are sounding great.
Well, I simply posed a couple of innocent questions, with no I intent of being a polemicist or putting the cat amongst the pigeons. Feathers do appear to have been ruffled though. I class myself as an audiophile. I enjoy attentively listening to music and care about how it is reproduced. It does appear though, that like many religious extremists, audiophiles are very quick to defend their passion, even if it wasn’t under attack.
Take a ‘chill pill’ and most of all, enjoy the music. After all, isn’t that the collective goal?
I swear there are more knee jerk audiophiles on this channel compared to some though.
Do you won Dire Straits-Love Over Gold? This album gives you an audiophile medal :-)
As a suggestion please also do a test between the upgraded 600m 2 and the gr research speaker.
He said he will do that
I'm intrigued. We've got the new Ref II speakers in our store now.
With headphone mods I have done I have used modeling clay to add mass to the drivers and cups to help with the response and resonances. For the port resonances you mentioned, do you think adding mass with that method would help? Or would it just shift the resonance frequency?
It would have to be something viscous to effectively damp cabinet walls - it has to change mechanical energy into something else, say heat. Port resonance depends mainly on ports dimensions and a bit on the shape. I guess it's location might have some influence. Of course internal cabinet resonance might leak through the port as well.
Can't wait to hear the sound clips, Danny. If what I hear from the speakers do sound better in The A - B comparison I will definitely be purchasing the kit. I'm not very tech savvy but I think I'll be able to figure it out. It'll be a fun little project that I can be proud of. Provided I don't blow the house up in the process 😂
Hi, what do you think of the old Klipsch RP-160M? Given my budget I would like to buy them. Or, in the same price range, the Kef Q150, or other brands. You can give me an advice? I trust your judgement, you are very prepared. Thank you.
I just got my RP8000F II’s, I still don’t know what to make out of them. I got my Maggies LRS with GR-R xover as a backup just in case.
Those were definitely the worst measuring speakers out of the original RP line, so I'm curious how the 8000F IIs compare to the originals as well.
I had them for week and gave them AWAY 🤣.... for free no joke
Those two speakers are really different. Almost apples and oranges, I love things like that, used to work in a stereo store and we would experiment with often wildly different equipment and find what we liked for different types of music and budgets.
i hould love for you to do a pair of jamo s803. just because i have a pair and would to see where they stack up and what you would do to them. thanks for all the work you guys do have a great day.
Send them in
@@BatMan-to8im if i did would you do a video of them? that would be awesome.
Exposing these manufacturers of using garbage parts, even on their high-end products is a slap in the face to the consumer. I had the Klipsch Heresy IV's, what a joke. Outside the Paul Klipsch history, cabinet and marketing, inside is garbage from steel stamped cheap woofer basket, plastic horns, garbage all in the crossover and cabinet resonance due to lack of bracing. All that was nice was the box and grill.
Really tired of Klipsch. Just saying....
Just take a nap. Then get a glass of milk and a cookie. It will all be okay.
Their fanboys sound just as bad as well. 😂
@@PSA78 klipsche fanboys the worst
Just you wait we got 2 more in the queue as well. ;P
@@hoth2112 Super. I imagine what we'll find out is that most of Klipsch's offerings are overpriced junk. I just don't need to watch any more of those, personally....that could just be me, though. :)
I do find the trolls here rather funny because they keep on complaining that he's trying to sell them something, which of course he is. In doing so, they're not realizing that what he's selling them is an improvement on a product that someone else is trying to sell them. This is just how marketing and business works if you don't like his product you don't need to watch his videos. If you love the product as the manufacturer put it out and you don't think that it needs any improvement as you own it and find it an essential gain for your soul to have it attached to you and therefore I can't handle a simple criticism of a failing of the speaker, don't watch. Of course Danny is trying to sell you something, he puts these videos out there to inform people that he has an improvement for sale that he by way of his talents has come up with. Having said as much beyond a bit of a problem with the initial LGK speakers his products are pretty well respected by most everyone out there and an upgrade to an off-the-shelf speaker that he could put together will likely be a pretty good Improvement over the market-friendly ones that he is dealing with here. You need to understand marketplace speakers are designed to meet goals that are designed by marketers. They're not necessarily designed for audiophiles or to sound as accurate as is possible. They're designed to meet the demands of both accountants and a probable hole in a manufacturer's lineup. Sure there are speakers out there that are at this price point that sound great. But, are the audiophile and are they accurate? Give given the costs involved in R&D, shipping, marketing and simple supply chain issues likely not. What is neat about Danny's company is he seems to be part of a small group of small speaker companies they're actually producing pretty damn good products that often beat mainline ones at a higher price. The old Legacy audio, Joseph Acoustics and a few others are tiny companies that produce products that you can buy for far less than the amount of coin you would have to purchase a B&W Nautilus at and yet still sound fantastic. Of course he's marketing this to you that's kind of the point of his company. But he's not selling you snake oil, he's selling you his oil.
Nice T-shirt. Kramarić :)
Did you post the sound clips? I hate to say it but you have to accept the fact that clips is all we've got nowadays - no one can buy the XLR, build it, and listen to it just for fun. We can't A/B demo 2 speakers anymore like we used to and most of us are make blind purchases. Any light is better than complete darkness.