I 3D Printed RC Car Tires... Will they survive???
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2023
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As always, we have to praise the cameraman for standing on top of the RC car and recording for us.
whats happening at high speed is ur rear wheels are loosing grip so u spin ur tires and loose control a rear wing but dont go too overboard on the rear downforce cuz then the front wheels will lack grip from the balance being moved. hope this helped and made sense :)
How about a wing mounted high at the middle of the car like those old f1 cars?
@@islam1337simobad center of gravity and more unstable
@@islam1337simo Undebody downforce would probably be better for that.
@@Litl_Skitl I agree. What an elegant solution.
If you really want to make sense, I suggest using proper language. Not your kind of semi jungle babble.
Honestly the instability looks more like a suspension geometry issue to me.
Most RC cars will run a substantial amount of toe in on the rear.
I think this may help with your stability problems.
Precisely the issue I think. I used to race a lot of 1/10th scale cars at close to a professional level. Top speed maybe more like 30mph most of the time as acceleration was more important, but they were very stable. Toe in on the rear wheels, better suspension damping, and balanced weight/downforce should help a lot.
Use nitro rc antenna tubes cut to size over your rear suspension rod to limit squatting under load
@@pierholtrop5432 squatting isnt an issue at all, in fact the rc car is too darn light, actually every rc car is way too light to make the suspension act like a real car. squatting isnt bad, its the fact that the car spins out under high acceleration, which is a grip and a weight disribution problem
I've got four FDM printers and I've just never seen a reason to pick up a resin. I think you may have finally opened that door for me. Interesting build, subbed
You'll need a place outside of your living area to use it. Those resins stink!!!
@@iandrake4683 not only do they stink, they're also unhealthy as fuck. They WILL fuck you up long term.
Toxic fumes, cleaning with the wash station. No thanks. FDM is fine for me.
Well to be fair he didn't have 100% infill.
Resin printing is the messiest thing I've ever done. I would watch some videos showing the actual entire process. It's time consuming and like I said a MESS
For your tires, you should try the Fuzzy Skin setting (if you use cura). I've printed things in polymaker TPU that are extremely slippery normally, but have much better grip with the Fuzzy skin setting enabled. I'd imagine that VarioShore would have even better results.
Great idea! Also Fuzzy is now available in Prusa and Orca slicers as well!
Also just making slicks with a bit softer carcass to dampen the bumps a bit more (or just softer suspention).
I don't know how to spell it in English, but tyres need to be more flat, or without the lines, like formula 1 tyres that don't have any lines or marks in the tyres, something like flat tyres? Or totally smooth tyres.
Edit: you can also try adding a downward pointing spoiler, check out Pagani's spoiler system, or Bugatti, switch out the GoPro for a more streamlined camera, or make a full ramp carcass like a batmobile, and put the camera there, that way you will get more aerodynamic.
Try using TPE for 3D printing tires. It's better than TPU
Thanks, i had nothing but problems with grip when printing tires.
that car hates the front right wheel.
For stability a bit of toe in on the rear and neutral in the front would help. You already have positive caster in the front, that also provides more stability. If speed is the goal then a longer wheelbase also helps. And with a RWD car you also want to have the weight near the rear axle. RWD buggies often have the motor behind the axle to provide optimal weight distribution for that setup. And a common misconception regarding aero: you don't want that much downforce when going for speed, you want stability. So fins are a good idea, flat underbelly and a bit of rake to keep the car stable. When using wings you basically are putting variable levers on the front and back - especially bad if you go over bumpy-ish surfaces at speed. If you want to see what the results of bad aerodynamic balance can be: google Peter Dumbrecks Le Mans sommersault from 1997...
I love how Scarlet Fire goes so well with abusing plastics 🥰
YEAH DANKPODS RAHHHHHH
Bro in 7:11 kerosene rs6 crash😂
Cool stuff! Subscribed and following this Project. Can't wait to see V3!
4wd is definitely the answer, tried making my rc car 2wd, was completely uncontrollable!!
I looked a dude .aking a 1:24 scale 2WD car that went about 100 kmh.
@@CENREAPER-YT did he use gyro?
Running a noble nb4 with servo delay or a perfect pass will work as a pseudo traction control as well if using a 2wd in a drag style speed test.
@@EngineeringAfterHours yeh i know Raz makes some pretty incredible stuff, cant say im much into rc cars. Have a wltoys a979 or somethin which is really bad as 2wd. But of course there are many factors such as toe, camber, caster, tyres, motors and even acceleration control for achieving stable driving.
@@filippus_ No. He ran them for 10-20 meters to test it out and they will (most of the time) crash.
Hi Michael, I've recently uploaded my own 3D printed RC car to printables. Im hoping I can reach at least 60mph when my new longer range radio arrives. The design of the drivetrain is similar to the Tarmo5 and Tarmo4. A video of it and link are on my youtube page
I saw your other vidoe first, and the way you take comments into account is great!! Keep up the work you totally got this
for the tires, you can adjust infill and get down the infill extrusion width so that way you can do it softer
For the redesigned car, I have a couple of suggestions. Make it lower, so that you can incorporate an undertray and diffuser for more downforce to help with stability at speed. You can get little gyroscope modules (some rc cars actually come with them) that connect to the steering servo and can countersteer when they detect the car changing direction without the driver's input.
To incorporate a gyro effectively you need advanced software. It is a seemlingly easy thing but a soon as you get to sensor fusion it is some serious black magic fuckery :D Easier would be to use a little toe in on the front wheels by lengthening the steering rod a little.
@@vubito3245 my understanding is that the gyro modules made for rc cars are pretty plug and play, and you only have to tune how aggressively it countersteers so you don't get oscillations.
I am hooked, great project! I wanna give this a try now
Very entertaining to watch. Excited for the next vid
The tires you printed need to be balanced once mounted to the rim, that will make the car more stable. I don't know much about 3D printing, but I would look into trueing the tires as well. For more traction on the printed tire, you could look into tire "sauce". The RC transmiter and receiver combination you were using comes with an inbuilt gyro, did you have both gyros active while performing your runs?
Finally the next part is out ♥ love this
I also wanted to look into printing my tyres and I I thought of either printing in resin directly, or just fdm printing a mould to cast my own tyres. You Might wanna look into that.
3d printing the hubs and placing them in a mold for silicon casting is something I've seen a couple other people do but I'm not sure they would work at the high speeds you're aiming for. Great work so far and I'm definitely interested in seeing more done with the gyro!
Adjusting the toe and camber of the wheels can affect oversteer at high speeds, having positive toe on the all the wheels can (hopefully) help the car not oversteer at high speeds.
longer and wider wheelbase would be a must as it will hug the ground more and cause less wobble at high speeds
You can buy off the shelf radio systems really cheap that has a built in gyro and it works pretty good. Also, for speed your probably going to want solid foam tires. I run belted tires on all my fast RC's but if you're aiming for 100+ mph you'll want solid foam or rubber but they'll need to be solid and glued
You could try decreasing the tire-sprung mass. That should help keeping the contact between tire and road.
Daaaaaamn im actually loving this project. Easy sub
I too have done a little 3D printing for my rc car. I made a big spoiler similar to this one and a battery holder to hold two batteries at a time. I was working on a front splitter but had to leave my printer in Missouri 10 hours away.
I love your videos about the 3D printed Car!!! I neeeed the next parts please
I can see that your car is pretty high, what I would suggest is smaller shocks and have oil on them so the bounce isn’t a problem. 4wd is a clear requirement for achieving over 100MPH since with Rwd no tire has enough grip or is wide enough to sustain those speeds. I suggest you look into some 4WD chassis that big Rc companies make like the Traxxas 4tec 2.0 or 4tec 3.0. I have a 4tec 2.0 and grip with how the platform is made has become and issue. I’ll suggest that you fit all the electronics on one side and the battery on the other side to balance the weight of the car. Why not put it on the middle? Well the driveshaft has to be in the middle and even though you could put everything on top it would affect a lot on aerodynamics. If you do go with a similar design than the 4tec 2.0 or 4tec 3.0 make sure to build some body mounts on the same spots as on the real thing so bodies aren’t hard to find/make. Honestly I love your idea of a 3D printed Rc car to go 100MPH! And if you need any other tips or tricks feel free to contact me over at Instagram, it’s the same name as here.
Hope to see more of this soon!
That's very cool, keep it up! I'm doing the same research but in the off road 3D printed RC, I will attempt your same challenge soon 😊❤
Brilliant work, Michael! Really well done! 😃
Your sponsor has 3d printing with metal, also CNC I believe... I don't know, perhaps it could be a good idea for some parts. 😉
Other than that... Looking forward to the 4x4 version!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
It would not be "3d printed" anymore. Also, metal is not good absorbing the impacts and would make other plastic parts break easier.
@@xxGmon3yxx you can actually 3d print with metal powder. Its called powder bed fusion and there also are other methods
Are you spin balancing them as well? That will def help a ton at higher speeds.
For high speed stability you want more rear grip than front and the balance of pressure needs to be further back than the center of gravity in all directions, yaw (side to side) if you don't want to lose control, pitch (front and back) if you don't want to suddenly take flight
can you please make a video on the essential hardware needed to build your own 3d printed car?
I know you mentioned addressing aerodynamics later. I hope you can look at ground effect and Bernoulli's principle as that should really help the car stick to the surface!
Yeah it's tough to keep them straight at speed. Keep it up!
Have you tried shaving or abrading the tires? Real race tires are often shaved to remove contaminants like mold release. Obviously FDM doesn't use mold release, but I scuffing the surface might help. Maybe some rough grit sandpaper?
It was great seeing you at open sauce!
Have you tried using a little toe-in instead for better straight line stability?
From the video seems that the gyro is working in the opposite direction. It does'nt counter steer when you spin, instead it follows the direction of the rotation of the car.
since you already have all the electronics and stuff i'd recommend to just print the robak 2.2 or proto36. Doesn't take you any designing time, just printing/assembly and it may just allow you to get some ideas and close in on 100mph without any effort.
hey, just a small PSA; if theres anyone in the path of the car that could get hit by it, dont drive the car. in the one clip with the biker you shouldve stayed on the side of the road untill he passed
have you thought about trying tire softener to get more grip with the tires. These are usually used by drag racers ...not sure if it is compatible with the material from which you print the tires
What was the 'foam' you used for the tire again? Do you have a link?
i really recommend making a resin body for your car so when it crashes the go pro or the internal parts wont break and it will protect the car a little bit
Wind stirring would be pretty cool to try out sorta like airplanes but at a side to side level, or just a more streamlined design to make the car stay straighter
My 7 year old son loved this video and can't wait to see where this project is going.
maybe you want to try using TPE instead of TPU for the tires since those usually have a more of a rubbery texture from expirience
you should try foam tire and add front toe (more open) to stabilize the front. but redesign suspension would be great. your dampers need to be more horizontal.
you have to work on the parallelism and the camber of the running gear so that the car stabilizes itself, I face the same problem while building my rc car
Dude, so well done, it's very impressive! Switch to FPV sooner than later, that will help. The gradual reduction in steering with speed is a must, you are oversteering now at high speeds. The car seems to float / airlift at high speeds, which is def an aerodynamic issue. Add those wings. Get inspiration from the new Ducati Streetfighter wings. Lower the COG if you can. It feels like the COG is still very high, sitting well above the wheels. Largers wheels would allow your COG to sit *below* wheel level. Just tips :)
This is awesome
Add big vertical stabilizers to the back of the car. Same as on airplanes, they keep the car stable at high speeds.
I have printed the same car, but I have changed almost every part. The highest I got is 60mph on a 4S battery.
The biggest changes I made is, bigger shocks, changed the angle of the suspensions, I extended the chassis 50mm, made everything super tight because a lot of the tolerances were way off and sloppy.
yeah making it tight may do the thing. I think the tarmo5 as shown in these videos is super unstable on the road. I own robak and it's very different.
Try NinjaFlex 85A TPU. The most common TPU is 95A hardness, and most brands of this standard TPU are a bit slippery. However, NinjaFlex 85A TPU has a completely different texture and is extremely high friction against most surfaces I've tested. Also you can try printing with fuzzy skin which will improve friction, at least at the beginning until it wears down.
You need a top cover to complete the aero. After you reach a certain speed the aero takes over for stearing and stability. Maybe some active aero would help too. Your car is too light and not enough stable down force to rely on tire stearing.
You could try incorporating rear toe-in, a lower ride height, a faster steering servo, and a rear wing with vertical stabilizers.
Is your rear wheel alignment square or do you have any toe-in? High powered 2wd RC cars have a ton of toe-in to keep them pointed down range. Might be something to try before you go to 4wd and introduce an entire drivelines worth of new engineering problems.
Awesome video! I subscribed and hit alerts so I can see the 4wd version of this build!!
Jumping in the comments not having seen the earlier design-phase content. The stability issue you're having looks very familiar to a chassis I was trying to tune for stable higher speeds. I learned a lot, but mostly that my square alignment was my downfall; after dialing a small amount of Toe-In on the rear wheels I was able to track straight at speed.
I also learned something that had plagued me for years, and it was renewed when I saw your aero add-ons: downforce has to be balanced front and rear. Go put a fat guy on your rear bumper, and the nose lifts. Plop fatso on your front bumper, the rear goes skyward. It's not or ever has been "putting the wing above the non-drive wheels on your Civic hhaha", but without a splitter, that Giant Wang is kinda harmful. Neat.
Will it be stronger if you print hollow parts and pour epoxy resin there ?
1)Try balancing the wheels dynamically if you are 3d printing them
2)For the aero try a rear wing similar to the GT cars but don't go overboard with that.
3)For higher speeds u need front grip as well so what u can do is underbody downforce (again not too much of it or the car will bottom out if the suspension decides to give up).What u will need to do is accelerate the air under the car using some sort of ducting(not so sure abt this)
4)U will probably need some sideskirts too that would prevent the air from rushing in from the sides
5)Try to cover the wheels in the aero too
slow speed servo and gyro always winds up badly what happens is servo is slow to react and you get that slow wondering left to right. If you're keeping the slow servo ditch the gyro.
for stability you can increase the toe out angle slightly on the front wheels and see how that works out and if it needs stability give it some toe in angle on the rear wheels just minor though.
Maybe go with a simpler car? The fastest "on road" RC cars often have a solid rear axle, foam tires, chassis flex rear suspension and king-pin front suspension. They're more of a tiny go-cart than a scaled down car.
one thing to help with the aerodynamics would be to make the center of mass closer to the ground (make the suspension ride lower).
this would also help with the handling.
Is it possible to use rubber and 3d printed tyres in the same wheel for strength and grip
I would say to add more weight to the car, especially to the rear end to increace rear end traction. You could add a spoiler to the front to get some downforce or just let the rear end do the steering and aceleration.
This is like building an f1 car, i love it. What would be really funny and cool is if you tried like doing real airodynamics test (like with this powder and maybe a home made wind channel?)
testing mine in spring both metal and two 3d printed, my metal one is geared to max speed of 100mph from aftermarket parts we shall see if it gets close to 80mph with efficiency lose . 3d printed is 2 different designs one based close to a tt02 and other compatible with tt02 parts but very little in common with original tt02 chassis. hope it all works well for myself with very little damages lol but thats the best part of it being 3d printed easy fixing.
You should try adding down force to the front and back also you should find a flat area with very little elevation changes also do you know how to use the brakes because I have a rc car that can go 65and it can stop easily with the brakes
I 3d printed some giant paddle wheels for the snow, they worked perfectly, i printed in both petg and pla, petg was more brittle
Just look up some of the rc speed run guys like raz shiffrin or Kevin talbot it takes a lot to hit 100mph batteries motor esc aero ground clearance. I would try using the arrma limitless platform to get started
Use an aerodynamic body to reduce drag and increase stability, also you could design an axel for four wheel drive
You can lock your rear differentail that helps with stability and a great car build
Do you have those front tires toed in?
There are filaments made from recycled tyres that are far more grippy than TPU, it stinks like a tyre fire while printing though so print with good ventilation.
smaller stiffer suspension, the swaying is because of high center of gravity, and soft suspension allowing the swaying
You need foam tires, longer and wider chassis. It's geared too tall also. I would take off about 5 teeth and that should help. I bet you can hit about 60 under those conditions.
For strong parts print with very little infill, like 10% to 20%, make a small hole in the 3D print surface, and inject resin with a giant syringe.
softer suspension helps a ton with bouncing, and you have to get the amount of damping just right. too much and it'll still bounce from not compressing fast enough. too little and the wheel will float and take forever to come back down, then possibly have a second bounce from rebounding so fast. you can visualize this in your head. imagine a tires from the side, and it's rolling and the ground is moving back quickly. a bunch comes by and the tire hits it and sends the tire moving upwards. with perfect damping, it stops just above the height of the bump, then comes back down to make contact with the road again quickly. that way you lose traction for a shorter period of time. if damping is too weak, the tire will fly up and it won't stop until you max out the suspension arm travel, then it'll bounce back down too fast and possibly have a second bounce. your tires will spend a lot of time not touching the road. if damping is too high, the impulse will impart energy into your chassis and it'll deflect your trajectory with each bump, and it'll look like it's skipping around the surface like a rock skipping across a lake. luckily they sell different spring rates and fluid viscosities for the purpose of tuning this sort of thing
Do you use Bambu only for hard materials (PLA, PETG. etc.) and Ender 3 S1 only for TPU?
Try to reduce part cooling while printing. When possible on most parts down to 0% cooling. That encourages the part stability a lot
Gyros in high speed cars are always temperamental, they rarely work Properly, they either over correct at high speeds or don’t do anything at all, just keep in mind
it needs to be more wide and a bit much longer for stability, larger wheels on the back, and more sustain on suspension cause it might start to wobble at high speed... thats are the mechanic problems, then u have to make some sort of aerodynamic for the car.
Nice project btw, and keep improving it
Not clear to me how much toe-in alignment you have on your rear axle. The buggies you can find in a store have at least 2 degrees toe-in, which should help with the straight line stability. With toe-in, if weight shifts to one side, the increased grip on the toed-in wheel will ensure that the car will auto-correct. You do sacrifice some top speed and get some understeer though.
you should lower the center of mass by placing the lipos lower in the body and place the motor in the middle when you do the awd conversion
tire seem to expand. you should try to insert some string like 2 or 4 rings while printing inside of it
I've made my own RC fully 3D printed car. For my wheels I ended up cutting up mountain bike tubes, then epoxying them to my TPU wheels to add rubber.
That thing will need a smoother surface to drive on or suspension. It's a bumpy ride
Use ground effect Anda big diffuser to get more downloaded and less drag
Nice one. Polyurethane Rubber casted tire might also be an option.
That crash at the end was so cartoony when seeing it from over that small hump in the road lol
Foam tires are the best option for high speed. No ballooning but they don’t last long.
1. In most of the car, especially the arms, you WANT flex. Go pure nylon or pCtg (ie fiberology pctg). RPM Nylon arms are a common upgrade in hobby cars.
2. Watching you fight that right pulling alignment was painful, get your trim straight so you go perfectly straight without touching the wheel.
3. You need better designed front and rear wings at that 50+ speed, especially without any kind of body.
4. New viewer so not sure your printers, but if you have multimaterial, consider using a softer material for the wear layer of the tires and a harder for the inside, especially, maybe print them into rims (nylon), even.
5. Many hobby RC cars end up with almost a square footprint, because it's so much more stable than narrower cars like full sized ones are.
6. You have non adjustable links, are you designing for any toe-in or toe-out? Toe-in gives more stability at high speed.
big vertical stab fin hanging off the rear and shift weight forward to help with stability at speed. And not so much downforce on the front.
WHAT AN AMAZING VIDEO. thank u algorithm. i subbed
you can get a rubber resin called resione f80 for resin printers to print RC car tires
i use the though2000 for a living, really. I print about 3kg of it per week. If you want to increase your results and avoid any deformation of thinner walls whilst curing. Preheat the parts with uv only. Use 35°C for 120min and let it cool down. Then preheat again with same settings and continue to the normal 70°C 60 min program.
How heavy is your car at the moment? Are your wishbones bending/flexing?
Would you be willing to share the Gerber files for your DrehmFlight PCB?
Thanks!
more wider arm on rc car is more balance out speaking of narrow so easy lose tracking cause it slip out everywhere
2nd using offroad tire was to force tire stay contact with road at high speed but if you lose speed cause tire retrack back in place make no contact with ground it leads to sliding into thing
3rd if you need tracking so bad them go wider tire thicker that way wont turn into balloon just like offroad tire did
i just love seeing people finding way to test different between it