"The tailheaviness" when you go back to hover mode is not only because of the motors changing their position. When going back to hover mode you still have some velocity thus wings still produce some lift especially when the flaps are down. In real or simulated V22 Osprey you can also observe the same behaviour. It is up to pilot to take a correction for the nose going up on transition. Impressive work!
@@billmiller4800 this is exactly the solution real airplanes use. As airplane velocity changes, tail angle changes. Pitching downwards lifts the tail which is good for low speeds where not enough air is being compressed under the tail to give lift. Pitching upwards eases off this angle and consequent tail lift for high speeds where there is ample lift under the tail. BUT here's a thought, maybe, if the thrust the motors provide is actually good enough, then for full speed mode tilting the tail even more to get the nose to point upwards just a bit should keep the aircraft climbing... Unless the wingspan and/or thrust really is just not good enough.
Indeed but for a drone, it seems undesirable to require the pilot to do such compensation. It is probably better to have three distinct stabilization mechanisms: one for rotor mode, one for forward mode and one for transition mode where pitch is used to compensate while the rotors tilt.
When you consider that the real thing is also able to fold itself up like origami for storage, you realise the engineering of the V-22 is nothing short of a miracle. And as a one-man diy project, Tom's scale model is equally impressive!
Retired helo test pilot here. I think that the abrupt pitch you experience during deceleration might be rotor flapback. Most helos exhibit similar behaviour to varying extents, and yours is exacerbated by having turned off the stability augmentation. A partial cure might be a VERY slow and shallow deceleration to the hover, with correspondingly low nacelle rates. I agree that the longitudinal movement of CG is also a big factor. Incredible project! Congrats.
Khanggi No, we had airspeeds at which we needed to be at to convert to helicopter mode. However the elevator was also always functional even in a hover the elevator would move. Also we had several flight computers that were constantly monitoring everything assisting the pilots.
steveerossa Army wanted to replacement to the UH-60 if you look at the V-280 there are a lot of similarities. The V-280 has a cabin that is configured like a 60, they definitely improved on the V-22 design though. But, that would be expected on a 30+ yr newer design. V-22 is still an amazing aircraft with lots of military service time left.
Would it be possible to mount the motors more central to the pivot, and run a shaft up to the blades? This thing looks breathtaking, you've made an amazing impression of the real thing. I saw a flock of Ospreys once in central London years ago when Obama visited, and i was absolutely blown away.
Exactly what I was going to suggest - I'm sure there are challenges with designing it that way but it may be simpler than adding a system to shift the battery around
i think there would be an insane amount of drag and slop in such a system, it would make the motor-pulsing part very hard. the weight shifting via moving the battery is more plausible imo.
@@KptnAutismus A long shaft and a couple of bearings wouldn't add much drag at all. Plus, the latest design doesn't do pulsing anymore, it's just using regular (ish) props with a fixed angle. I think it could be a solution worth looking into. The main issue I can see with that idea would be the added weight of the shaft in general, but that could be minimized greatly by using hollow shafts. The load on them isn't all that much, RC helicopters almost always use hollow steel shafts these days and the forces there are much much greater. It wouldn't need to be a very large, heavy driveshaft.
@@KptnAutismus it probably depends on the material used for the shaft and how long it would be. A steel shaft offset by only a few inches might not cause too much twisting when pulsing the motors. I think it would be interesting to see tested even if it doesn't end up working
@@ShainAndrews Seems to be a grown man, not a kid. I'd bet he's doing ok financially and if he's smart he's saving that TH-cam money for bigger and better things.
🤔I'm not sure if it counts as within the scope of his project, but I'd imagine you could put a tiny computer in there, to automate some of the control-adjustment. (For example, near 20:00 when he's got issues switching between forward flight and hovering, and the pitch changes abruptly.) Although maybe that'd require a bunch of speed/accel sensors, and then all become un-calibrated with varying wind speed or something. 😆
So basically....he is trying to re-engineer a poor flight design dine by the US military....and the model flies just as bad as the real deal. What I'm saying....lol....its not his design and build being the problem....but the problem lies in the military's poor design. 😂
@@AileTheAlien yeah, it’s in an « attitude hold » mode, meaning that whatever manual angle he puts it in, it will attempt to keep. So it’s not like a mavic or something, but that not the point. He wants to basically be able to fly it manually but not need to make all the extra micro ajustements to keep it where he wants it. Most FPV drones are like that for example.
I was daydreaming about making such things >thinking that, that might help me getting job in one major company !!> how silly of me...its already done by him!!!
Instead of a shifting weight, I can't help but think moving the motors further down into the nacelle with an extension shaft out to the prop would give you a more balanced weight profile in the nacelle that doesn't change when they rotate.
Mount them on the wing spar or as close to it as you can. Keep the CG shift from being so aggressive. Might even be better if they were behind the spar. Depends on how much a drive shaft and bearing at the other end weight.
*Improvement suggestions:* I would start by increasing the transition time from half-hover to full hover to at least 7 seconds, if not more. A slow transition will help you with the gyroscopic effect created by the rotating props. Secondly, you have a lot of slack in the servo connetion that is controlling your gears for both the rotation of the main axis as well as the rotation of the individual motors. You can fix this by adding some damping oil (such as the one used to dampen the throttle stick on transmitters) to all the those gears or by adding multiple intermediate gears to have a more gradual torque transition. In the shots where you were showing the tilt mechanism working, it was a bit juttery. Finally, ballance the whole motor mount on the axis of roatation by adding counter weights to the bottom / back part of the motor housing. This will ensure that you have no changes in CG when the motors are rotating between hover-mode and forwards-flight-mode (or any stage in between). Another thing to note is that not only are the props are actying as a gyroscope, pulling the body down when you change orientation, but your whole body-wing system has to oppose the motion of the motor mounts rortating in the opposite direction. You can easily do this by removing one gear and just ballancing while the whole thing is free rotating. Alternatively, as suggested by @Cassius Wilhelm, you could add two separate batteries as counter weights. But make sure you have enough mass in the centre of the aircraft because if you make the arms too big, yaw intertia can become a problem. Try to have a 1-3-1 or 1-2-1 weight ditribution, i.e. first digit for left wing, second for main fuselage and tail, third for right wing. Relatively speakeing, the less mass you have in the wings and the more mass you have close to the CG, the better you plane will perform in almost every way. *Things to check:* Make sure that the thust angle is not sagging , i.e. becoming negative, when you transition your motors to forwards-flight-mode and make sure that you have disabled the two servos that control the pitch of the motors themselves. Check that the final position of the motors is not below the the chord line of the wing. If they are effectively pointed down, then just adjust the endpoint of the main tilting servo to allow to finsh the rotation with a little positive thrust angle. *Things to re-design:* Just by looking at the wing to body ratio (18:46), I can see that your wings do not have enough surface area for what you are trying to do with it. It is not uncommmon to have a longer chord line when trying to build scale planes of any kind, simply because the wing loading and the generated lift is very different and for a plane like this, you should have as much wing area as visually possible, i.e. if get's too large, it will look strange and no longer "to scale". Just compare the lift-to-weight ratio between the full scale aeroplane and yours and you'll see the point that I'm making.
For the counterweights I would like to suggest using two batteries, one in each motor pod wired together as that eliminates the need for a dedicated weight shifting mechanism and allows using the weight that would have been on the plane anyways more efficiently. Please feel free to add that little idea to the root comment.
Great points. I don't have much RC experience but I'm wondering if dampening or slowly dampening pitch controls from the radio between modes would help?
@@cassiuswilhelm9640 I added your comment and tagged you because it is a good idea, but I don't know if this will be very benefitial for roll and yaw stability and overall stability because he uses differential thrust to control yaw in horizontal flight and well as roll in hover mode. You can think about it like this: You and your equaly weighing friend are sat on a seesaw at the park and you are oscillating up and down. The further out you sit and/or the more you weigh, the more force you will require to slow yourself down and bounce back up. If you are light and/or sit towards the middle, you don't need as much force because your rotational inertia is not as high as in the other case. In @Tom Stanton 's case, it would be beneficial to have as little weight as possible in the wings so that when he rolls or yaws, there isn't much roll or yaw intertia, respectively. Also, adding weight far away from the CG will have a huge impact on PID tuning, but he will have to do that anyway. Hope this makes sense. :)
Extraordinary engineering, I appreciate the progress in each Osprey video and you taking time to explain every small detail. It's also cool that Matt contacted you regarding his design, I wouldn't expect that from some running a commercial business regarding the same.
I'm glad you made it a scale model because it's REALLY interesting to see what kind of challenges the real aircraft designers had to overcome. Obviously they're dealing with much different scales and weights, but still fun to see
I often flew in & out of Arlington, Texas Airport. At that time, the V22 Osprey was being built & flight tested occasionally using that nearby non-tower field for flight testing. Was amazed to see it fly, & even more so as the engines were moved from verticle flight to normal horizontal. The thing accelerated CRAZY FAST
I bet that since youre showing how this can be done, others will probably do it too. Like in the future there might be a whole other part of the RC hobby thanks to you. This is really some innovative stuff youve been working on
What a fantastic project with skills way beyond anything I might be capable of. I've tried flying an Osprey V22 on my simulator with a total lack of success (not that it matters when repairs are a mere key click away!) so kudos for flying your prototype so well. Really well done.
The level of expertise on design for 3D printing and also flight control is just off the charts here. Mad respect, Tom. Would it be possible to mount a couple of small batteries in the bottom end of the nacelles, as counterweights?
very nice. The solution to your Centre of Gravity shift during transition is to balance the nacelles so as they move the balance point doesn't shift. you will need to move the motor back as a counter balance to the head. I would even consider mounting the batteries in the nacelles too. Also the swash plate design is a far better method of control as it allows for a constant head speed even in wing borne flight using collective pitch to control airspeed and very precise cyclic control in hover. Suspect to get it fly nicely in all aspects your going to have treat it like a conventional Tandem helicopter and plane rather than a drone. But its is great to see.
Came here to say this. The simplest solution would probably be to add a longer axle to the motors, moving them closer to the pivot point, which also moves more weight much closer to the center of lift and the center of gravity, both of the nacelles and the aircraft as a whole.
Is there any reason why the motor can’t be mounted at the level on the wing spar and drive the rotor head via a shaft? Still tilt the rotor head but have a universal joint at the rotation axis for the head. The other options you brought up with weight shifting a battery or counter weights in the nacelles sound … overly complex? I’d think the only acceptable ‘counterweight’ in the nacelles would be the battery(it’s) them selves.
Bravo! AMAZING, my wife and I are very impressed that, with nothing but raw materials, parts, etc you've built quite an impressive model, a working, visually appealing model Kudos to you
Very nice. I’m a ex Spacex employee/current helicopter pilot. From the video, it looks like it needs more tail pitch authority. It was interesting watch you work through designing a rotor head. The reason that the wind sent your “fully articulated” version into uncontrolled flight would be due to dissymmetry of lift. Very neat project. Well done.
I'm curious, how did you go from SpaceX to helicopter pilot? Asking cause both careers are of immense interest for me as I'm studying aeronautical engineering and love the idea of flying aswell
@@evertaj2438 I got fired for tweets. Don’t work at Spacex. I worked final integration building rockets. Fired for tweets from 2019. Years before I was ever employed.
@@seanwood5443 Maybe he said something genuinley worth firing. For example if you were to publicly insult your boss you wouldn't deserve your job. Firing someone for insulting you is different than firing someone for their opinion outside the job.
Would love to see a part whenever you come up with some ideas/time to work on them. Really impressed with the cad to get it to print/slice so well in vase mode. Love it, congrats on getting it this far!
I don't think that the plural of software is softwares, in the same way that the plural of lego bricks is not "laygoes", the singular of saving is not savings, and the name of the bit of a race track which isn't curved is not the "straightaways".
Quite amazing really. As I watch you flying it trying to unravel the secrets of its flight dynamics I imagined the original Osprey engineers following quietly along And enjoying this immensely.
Hey Tom ... I can't help but wonder what it's like going through life as an actual full fledged wizard brainiac. Simply glorious what you accomplish in a home workshop as the designer/fabricator/pilot. Any single one of those abilities is nearly "unobtanium" for mere mortals such as me. Endless thanks for your fabulous content! DT
You’re a wizard, Tom! Astounding problem-solving abilities, both in the physics of flight as well as the 3D printing issues. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your videos!!
That Cg shift could be fixed by offsetting the motor tilt servo to the back of the nacelle and using a linkage instead of gearing. You have plenty of space inside the nacelle so it should be possible. In general rotating things should always be balanced, especially if it's a flying thing 😉 Anyway, awesome project as usual. It would be great if you could show a bit more of the process that goes into the stabilizing algorithm and the command and control. Also hope you get to use all these weird rotors in another project.
Had the same thought. Moving the motor back to the center of rotation and using a "drive shaft" to the front of the nacelle where some kind of ball joint (like in a FWD car, I don't know the technical term) sits, to enable the pivot motion of the rotor.
Yep, I had the same thought. Also might cheat the motor position and/or the pivot location to help achieve a balanced nacelle. Might lose a tiny bit of scale perfection, but it might be worth it.
Really an awesome project :) What about adding two smaller batteries to the lower (back) part of the nacelles? I imagine the original has the pivot point around the center of mass of the nacelle and by moving the batteries in there you might automatically shift the battery as needed.
My first thought also! Use the batteries as the counterweight. And consider the suggestion of a longer shaft on the motor below. Combine these two, and you can probably get the CG to stay put during the transition.
This thing is amazing! Here's an idea I had, since you seem to also enjoy working with comically impractical means of propulsion: Inertial Shifting Helicopter Unlike traditional helicopters, this one does not use changing motor speed or rotor angle of attack to vary its lift. Instead, it relies on weights in the rotor system which can move in or out, closer or further from the center of rotation, thus affecting moment of inertia and exploiting conservation of angular momentum to change the speed of the rotors and therefore the lifting power. This would work similarly to how a figure skater rotates faster when pulling their arms inwards. You would need a motor with fixed speed and perhaps a sort of clutch mechanism to allow speed changes to occur without disrupting the motor. Maintaining altitude might also be a problem. It's probably stupid, and I haven't fully thought all this out, but let me know if you think the idea has any merit. Love your channel. Thanks!
Proud of how far you have come Tom, both in the projects and here on youtube. I followed you when you "only" got a couple thousand views per video. Great to see you get the recognition you deserve
Wow! So good to see and hear the story of your projects. It really makes it real to witness your struggles dips and turns and successes! That was a lot of work! The engineering, the science & the video! Grats!
great work Tom: a joy to watch the development of your Osprey. This video also gives you and everyone an understanding of the problems experienced by the design team of the actual Osprey.
I was thinking the same at the end a internal counter wait that can shift so the transition is smooth. Making the battery shift instead is an even better idea would save lots of weight. Great job on the project love it!
Most impressive! You might want to review the numerous V-22 "incidents" for insight on potential failures before they result in a 'RUD' of your very own, and smash all that amazing work... great job!
Just discovered your channel and this VTOL series. Loved the detail and progression. V1 "Campervan" VTOL was cute but this one looks the business. Really interesting to see you integrating so many different aspects of software, mechanical, electronic and aero engineering together [successfully] 👍
So cool, great to see this project come alive. On the Osprey the “flaps” are called flaperons since they are a combination of flaps and ailerons. Dolphin spinning numb chucks was the way I always explained to people what the Osprey looks like 😂
Awesome build! Perhaps moving the motors closer to the pivot point and using an extended (supported) shaft would keep the center of mass closer to the same spot. I'm sure you will find a solution , and I am looking forward to seeing it.
Hm? Keeping the head assembly and moving the motor back with a fixed axle ending where the motor axle currently ends should not require any extra articulated joints? There seems to be enough space in the nacelle to achieve static balance of the nacelle contents. Awesome model!
As someone who has flown a lot of RC planes and flown some crazy ones, this thing looks like it flies AMAZINGLY for a home brew. That is seriously impressive. The only thing you need to sort out is lift in forward mode. But hover and half hover looks amazing.
You can add a stabilizer to elevators like on the real plane. Thus balancing the cg while transitioning. Also smaller incriments would better. Only problem is the size . You will need a much bigger servo space than the current model. Actually Tom you are my idol. Always amazing projects.
Great video, Tom! It's awesome seeing all the things you've explored through this project. One suggestion - You've mentioned several options to solve the weight movement issue during transition, but I think you missed an obvious simple solution. Instead of trying to move mass (complicated) or counterbalance the motors' movement (heavy), you should see if you can add a coupler/extension shaft to the motors so that you can keep the rotors in position, but move the mass of the motors close to the pivot, which would reduce your c.g. shift in transition to/from forward flight/hover. There's nuances to solve in this too, no doubt, but I'm sure you can figure it out. Keen for the next part!
When i read it right for years, the biggest problem with the Osprey was in the devlopment that they had massiv issue when transiening between the modes, even some test models crashed because of this. Good job to this point, you came as far as the devs from the first development
I was daydreaming about making such things >thinking that, that might help me getting job in one major company !!> how silly of me...its already done by him!!!
Fantastic bravo!!! I have a suggestion for the moving CG issue without adding weights: Move the motors down and nearer their axis of rotation, with a longer propellor shaft (in bearings). Then when transitioning, the weight of the motors will not move very far.
I spent a lot of time around V-22s back when I was active duty, and this model definitely seems to behave very close to a real V-22 aside from the lower stability during hover. As DZARO commented, a slower transition time will definitely help negate the gyroscopic effect. I've been excited for the next part of this build, great work!
Awesome! I'm sure someone else already suggested this but have you considered using two batteries and placing them in the nacelles as counterweights? It could have other benefits too - like reducing the stress on the airframe during flight and increasing roll/yaw inertia for a bit more stability.
Regarding the shifting of mass of motors. I think another solution to balancing the motors would be to drop the motor further down into the pod and add an axle to transmit power to the prop. Of course this would mean adding another bearing but the weight would be significantly smaller than a counterweight while still achieving the desired effect.
Awesome! Original Osprey took around 90 seconds to convert from airplane mode to hover mode and vise versus, and it mostly had to do with optimizing lift/airspeed. The fact yours is able to transition so quickly and not violently lose control is actually quite amazing. Another thing with the center of balance issue, the V-22 has a heavy driveshaft running through the central wing, so the lacels are not as major of a weight shift to the overall airframe as it is on your model. I suspect you need more powerful motors, thicker propellers and some center of mass adjustments, and I’m willing to bet that you’ll get greatly improved performance. Amazing stuff!
Move the motors (centre of mass) down as close as you can to the tilt point between the wings and engine cover. And use some sort of extension for propellers to clear the top of the engine cover. This should fix the weight shifting issue when going back to hover mode and when in full forward flight.
It's incredible to think about the engineering and creativity that goes into building something as complex as a V22 Osprey! The Osprey is such a unique aircraft with its ability to take off and land like a helicopter and fly like a plane. The mechanics and technology behind it are truly fascinating. It's always inspiring to see the dedication and skill involved in such intricate projects. Keep up the great work! 🛠✈🚁
Guessing it's been suggested, but I'd be interested to see if the shifting-CG problems could be solved just by weighting the back of the nacelles so the CG of the motor assembly is right in line with the pivot. Then no matter if you're in hover mode or forward flight, the overall CG wouldn't be moving. Great vid as always, love seeing the work that's gone into making this one work!
That looks hard to fly, even more respect to the pilots of the real deal, also this is an amazing project of yours and it's so interesting to watch. And lastly your voiceover is great! Good pace, good explaining and a good voice for voiceovers in general!
I'd love to see your model tested in a wind-tunnel! The flight characteristics of your print when going full-forward seem due to aerodynamics and weight distribution because your electronics were solid👍 Thanks for sharing your cool Osprey!
I think at least part of the reason it was pitching back when you transitioned to hover was because you were still trying to slow down and were pretty much flaring as you transitioned, so when the propellors rotated they ended up pitched really far back. You can se it really well at 20:29.
Yeah, that nacelle transition looked pretty fast also. The real aircraft does it very, very slowly, as it simultaneously slows down, keeping the nacelle angle within the allowed angle bracket for the current IAS at all times. It's a pretty complex transition.
I think you should put the motor closer to the wing spar but keep the propellers where they are. On the real Osprey the center of mass of the engines is probably close to the spar if not inline with it
That is an awesome project , Tom . I've watched you and your projects over the years . I hope that your channel and all its visual proof , that speaks volumes about your creativity and tenacity to follow through with your projects will catch the eye of a great firm to work for . I wish you the best , Tom . I think the movable battery in the fuselage may solve your problem . I hope it does . I want to use some of that resin to bring back a couple of planes that hasn't been made in years . Thanks for sharing , keep designing and building. Terry
If you can fit a battery in the back of each nacelle that would balance them. (hopefully) and give you more flight time. That would simulate the fact the turbine is mounted in the back of the real Osprey for probably the same reason. Edit: Also from having been around the aircraft it looks like your horizontal stab is slightly scaled to small compared to the rest of the aircraft.
For the transition back to hovering mode, you should be able to slow the rate that this occurs at. Either in the x9d remote or in the coding for it. Just an idea. I love this project it's my favorite plane great job!
I was thinking the same thing. It seems like the motors need to go back vertically much much slower, so it doesn't have such a dramatic weight shift. Worth trying at least.
The simple solution to your weight shift issues is to adjust the point on the tilt rotors where they connect to the wing. If you adjust the connection point on the tilt rotors 50% closer to the blades, you'll find that pretty much stabilizes in place the mass of the tilt rotor regardless of flight mode. Really nice project ya got yourself, there. Congrats.
In Veritasium's latest video at the US Navy's indoor wave testing facility, they are able to get very realistic looking video captures of the ships going over waves by slowing the time down. Maybe there is some math involved in this as well, where if you slow it down so it looks like the real osprey, you could better analyze the differences in the flight characteristics of your model.
If someone steals the air craft valor is it stolen valor. It took 2 years to figure out that the engine and the gears should be connected. The Valor uses get engine for extra speed if sand or dust gets in the engine the valor would destabilize. The USA military wants 3 per a day by 2030. The new copters can't be used in desert and on beaches.
@@crunchybones2528 He is going on about the US Army's replacement for the Black Hawk. While it is a program that is destined to fail (like he said, 3 delivered per day until 2030), I have no idea how that is related to the above comment or why post it here?
This was awesome! I guess the problem with the full forward flying position is highly related to the proportion. The aircraft seems to be very close in proportions to the real thing, but, looking at some pictures of the aircraft, I have noticed that the blades of the rotors in your model are considerably smaller than the ones on the actual V-22. Try enlarging the blades and see if it makes a difference!
Another possible solution that wouldn't add much weight would be to recess the motors back into the nacelle to where they're located at about mid chord on the wing. You'd need to add a driveshaft and bearing and have a tilt head that's independent of the motor. But that would eliminate the weight-shift problem.
When it's far away, it realy looks like a full scale aircraft. Only the sound gives it away, you made a great job! Also, you can cancel the changing center of mass, when transitioning bact to hover mode, with some moving weight, since you don't need space for passengers or anything.
I believe what you are experiencing in transition to hover can be a mix of two things, the weight distribution and something called Vortex Ring State (VRS) which is common in both helicopters and tiltrotors like the V-22. I recommend lowering the servos in the nasales to help with COM, and for VRS you could and a function to the transition key on your control to modulate your throttle to be less powerful in half and forward flight. When switching back to hover you increase throttle to maximum to flush the VRS phenomenon. I hope this will help can't wait to see more videos on the topic.
I can feel your excitement when it flies! And your perseverance is a lesson to all of us - if at first you don't succeed, try again, and again, until successful! ;-)
the amount of work and engineering that goes into this project just for fun is really humbling, like I really wish to have one day enough capacities to just go ahead and produce my own prototype of fpv plane
what a fantastic work! well done! I noticed a few things that might help you. When you transition to having props to point forward, you are cutting your wing surface to half compared to hover mode. Reason is spinning blades act as a wing surface when your are past hover speed causing something called translational lift. on top of that, when in forward flight mode, the engine is far in front of the wing making it more nose heavy. the lightest weight solution for the engine issue would be to use a longer prop shaft and allow the engine to sit closer to the pivot of the engine enclosures.
I love your videos and I've been following your projects for a while. I have a suggestion you may want to consider When transitioning to a hover, the rotor disk is going from negative AoA to level or positive. This WILL increase overall lift, rotor speed being constant. The rotor disk should be treated as low-efficiency wing area. With that in mind, you may find that shifting the CG to compensate for the motors' physical position will not be enough. I get this idea from another VTOL model I saw many years ago in an RC magazine that had a similar problem even though there was NO change in CG due to motor rotation. The pitch-up moment was so strong the aircraft would loop, and no amount of trim would compensate. If I remember correctly, the solution in the article was to decrease the speed of transition as well as reducing thrust. Another thing I remember reading about early test aircraft that the V22 is based on was that the pilots controlled the rotor thrust axis directly, with no fixed stops. This was operated much like electric trim controls, with a button that moved the rotors forward, and one that moved them back, on the stick. As the pilots began the transition to hover, they would repeatedly "bump" the rotors back, and adjust thrust, to maintain level flight, rather than have fixed forward/45/hover positions for the rotors. You see a similar control scheme in the AV 8 B Harrier jump jet with it having a lever to position the angle of the jet nozzles freely from straight back to slightly forward.
this guy is great, wow this is so good. All you have to do is move the centre of gravity with motor shift. By moving the battery that could work or reengineer the motor's impact on centre of gravity.
"The tailheaviness" when you go back to hover mode is not only because of the motors changing their position. When going back to hover mode you still have some velocity thus wings still produce some lift especially when the flaps are down. In real or simulated V22 Osprey you can also observe the same behaviour. It is up to pilot to take a correction for the nose going up on transition. Impressive work!
Yes! A bit of pitch down may actually work as an offset and a bit of an air brake too
Same point is when I lower my flaps I must smoothly had down elevator to maintain my pitch attitude. If I don't the nose will come up way too much.
How about a slower pace for changing between the different modes ?? I can imagin that it is to fast in going forward and backwards
@@billmiller4800 this is exactly the solution real airplanes use.
As airplane velocity changes, tail angle changes. Pitching downwards lifts the tail which is good for low speeds where not enough air is being compressed under the tail to give lift.
Pitching upwards eases off this angle and consequent tail lift for high speeds where there is ample lift under the tail.
BUT here's a thought, maybe, if the thrust the motors provide is actually good enough, then for full speed mode tilting the tail even more to get the nose to point upwards just a bit should keep the aircraft climbing... Unless the wingspan and/or thrust really is just not good enough.
Indeed but for a drone, it seems undesirable to require the pilot to do such compensation. It is probably better to have three distinct stabilization mechanisms: one for rotor mode, one for forward mode and one for transition mode where pitch is used to compensate while the rotors tilt.
This is insane dude. The amount of engineering, r&d, and just general knowledge is really cool to watch. Thank you.
R&d?
@@featherdabirb Research & Development
@@featherdabirb research and development
When you consider that the real thing is also able to fold itself up like origami for storage, you realise the engineering of the V-22 is nothing short of a miracle. And as a one-man diy project, Tom's scale model is equally impressive!
Funny thing chap has Tom's avatar but is named differently
Edit: not sure what it was about but not anymore
Easy to fix the nise dive issue with a weight transfer during rotor rotation
Agreed. Very well done Tom. Looking forward to future development.
PS - The word "which" is not a conjunction :) 15:35
@@emperorsmizz7439 I was thinking two smaller batteries at the ends of the nacells instead of one bigger battery in the fuselage.
Retired helo test pilot here. I think that the abrupt pitch you experience during deceleration might be rotor flapback. Most helos exhibit similar behaviour to varying extents, and yours is exacerbated by having turned off the stability augmentation. A partial cure might be a VERY slow and shallow deceleration to the hover, with correspondingly low nacelle rates. I agree that the longitudinal movement of CG is also a big factor. Incredible project! Congrats.
A guy here…I concur!
Could have just given the explanation without adding a title or tiara.
This is amazing, I was a MV-22 Osprey Crew Chief in the Marines with 1700+ hours. This looks awesome!! Great Work!
awesome, did you have the same issues with the balance
@@KhanggiTanka Well, i bet the real one has some counterweight, because of their Fuel tanks weight shift, too
Khanggi No, we had airspeeds at which we needed to be at to convert to helicopter mode. However the elevator was also always functional even in a hover the elevator would move. Also we had several flight computers that were constantly monitoring everything assisting the pilots.
Did the military fix the issues it had with this design? They just gave a big contract to another tilt rotor over the Boeing helicopter.
steveerossa Army wanted to replacement to the UH-60 if you look at the V-280 there are a lot of similarities. The V-280 has a cabin that is configured like a 60, they definitely improved on the V-22 design though. But, that would be expected on a 30+ yr newer design. V-22 is still an amazing aircraft with lots of military service time left.
Would it be possible to mount the motors more central to the pivot, and run a shaft up to the blades? This thing looks breathtaking, you've made an amazing impression of the real thing. I saw a flock of Ospreys once in central London years ago when Obama visited, and i was absolutely blown away.
Exactly what I was going to suggest - I'm sure there are challenges with designing it that way but it may be simpler than adding a system to shift the battery around
Was also about to make the same suggestion. This might also help with full forward flight mode as well, as the centre of mass isn't shifted forward.
i think there would be an insane amount of drag and slop in such a system, it would make the motor-pulsing part very hard. the weight shifting via moving the battery is more plausible imo.
@@KptnAutismus A long shaft and a couple of bearings wouldn't add much drag at all. Plus, the latest design doesn't do pulsing anymore, it's just using regular (ish) props with a fixed angle. I think it could be a solution worth looking into. The main issue I can see with that idea would be the added weight of the shaft in general, but that could be minimized greatly by using hollow shafts. The load on them isn't all that much, RC helicopters almost always use hollow steel shafts these days and the forces there are much much greater. It wouldn't need to be a very large, heavy driveshaft.
@@KptnAutismus it probably depends on the material used for the shaft and how long it would be. A steel shaft offset by only a few inches might not cause too much twisting when pulsing the motors. I think it would be interesting to see tested even if it doesn't end up working
Massive congratulations on 1 million subs! I can’t say how much you deserve it!
Kids believe views and subscriptions mean something. Defective thinking is going to cost society...
@@ShainAndrewswhen they’re making more money off ad revenue than you are, then yeah, views do mean a lot…
35k views in one hour on an RC video is not bad at all.
@@ShainAndrews Seems to be a grown man, not a kid. I'd bet he's doing ok financially and if he's smart he's saving that TH-cam money for bigger and better things.
@@KingOreo2017 Mark my words... thinking like that will bite society right in the ass.
The Osprey is known to be one of the most challenging aircraft to fly, even with automatic aid, and you managed to fly this in RC mode. Incredible.
🤔I'm not sure if it counts as within the scope of his project, but I'd imagine you could put a tiny computer in there, to automate some of the control-adjustment. (For example, near 20:00 when he's got issues switching between forward flight and hovering, and the pitch changes abruptly.) Although maybe that'd require a bunch of speed/accel sensors, and then all become un-calibrated with varying wind speed or something. 😆
So basically....he is trying to re-engineer a poor flight design dine by the US military....and the model flies just as bad as the real deal. What I'm saying....lol....its not his design and build being the problem....but the problem lies in the military's poor design. 😂
@@AileTheAlien it already has gyro in it with a PID controller to help out
@@ezrarichardson279 seems like it needs more accuracy or it's got bugs then, if he's doing a lot of work manually! 😆
@@AileTheAlien yeah, it’s in an « attitude hold » mode, meaning that whatever manual angle he puts it in, it will attempt to keep. So it’s not like a mavic or something, but that not the point. He wants to basically be able to fly it manually but not need to make all the extra micro ajustements to keep it where he wants it. Most FPV drones are like that for example.
As a mechanic on these aircraft it makes me so happy seeing someone try to reverse engineer the aircraft and genuinely enjoying the airframe!
What are your thoughts on the Bell V-280? Anything about the Defiant X? Seems like the FLRAA drama is so heated right now.
this airframe has killed more marines then i can count
@@famousartguymeme damn, u can't count to 50? that sucks
@@VLDuckyy even you cant count. Its 51
I was daydreaming about making such things >thinking that, that might help me getting job in one major company !!> how silly of me...its already done by him!!!
Your ability to bring the viewer along the process is unmatched 🚀
Your number of likes is unmatched
Instead of a shifting weight, I can't help but think moving the motors further down into the nacelle with an extension shaft out to the prop would give you a more balanced weight profile in the nacelle that doesn't change when they rotate.
Agreed. That CG shift is the big killer.
Mount them on the wing spar or as close to it as you can. Keep the CG shift from being so aggressive. Might even be better if they were behind the spar. Depends on how much a drive shaft and bearing at the other end weight.
This is the best solution. It’s simpler than adding a weight shifting mechanism, and the craft ends up slightly lighter.
Came here to say this, this is 1000% the move here.
I was thinking a counterweight added to the lower section however ^this would add less weight. Great idea
Dude it was so beautiful to see the 3d print come together, really cool toy you’re building yourself there man
Are the stl files available?
*Improvement suggestions:*
I would start by increasing the transition time from half-hover to full hover to at least 7 seconds, if not more. A slow transition will help you with the gyroscopic effect created by the rotating props. Secondly, you have a lot of slack in the servo connetion that is controlling your gears for both the rotation of the main axis as well as the rotation of the individual motors. You can fix this by adding some damping oil (such as the one used to dampen the throttle stick on transmitters) to all the those gears or by adding multiple intermediate gears to have a more gradual torque transition. In the shots where you were showing the tilt mechanism working, it was a bit juttery. Finally, ballance the whole motor mount on the axis of roatation by adding counter weights to the bottom / back part of the motor housing. This will ensure that you have no changes in CG when the motors are rotating between hover-mode and forwards-flight-mode (or any stage in between). Another thing to note is that not only are the props are actying as a gyroscope, pulling the body down when you change orientation, but your whole body-wing system has to oppose the motion of the motor mounts rortating in the opposite direction. You can easily do this by removing one gear and just ballancing while the whole thing is free rotating. Alternatively, as suggested by @Cassius Wilhelm, you could add two separate batteries as counter weights. But make sure you have enough mass in the centre of the aircraft because if you make the arms too big, yaw intertia can become a problem. Try to have a 1-3-1 or 1-2-1 weight ditribution, i.e. first digit for left wing, second for main fuselage and tail, third for right wing. Relatively speakeing, the less mass you have in the wings and the more mass you have close to the CG, the better you plane will perform in almost every way.
*Things to check:*
Make sure that the thust angle is not sagging , i.e. becoming negative, when you transition your motors to forwards-flight-mode and make sure that you have disabled the two servos that control the pitch of the motors themselves. Check that the final position of the motors is not below the the chord line of the wing. If they are effectively pointed down, then just adjust the endpoint of the main tilting servo to allow to finsh the rotation with a little positive thrust angle.
*Things to re-design:*
Just by looking at the wing to body ratio (18:46), I can see that your wings do not have enough surface area for what you are trying to do with it. It is not uncommmon to have a longer chord line when trying to build scale planes of any kind, simply because the wing loading and the generated lift is very different and for a plane like this, you should have as much wing area as visually possible, i.e. if get's too large, it will look strange and no longer "to scale". Just compare the lift-to-weight ratio between the full scale aeroplane and yours and you'll see the point that I'm making.
For the counterweights I would like to suggest using two batteries, one in each motor pod wired together as that eliminates the need for a dedicated weight shifting mechanism and allows using the weight that would have been on the plane anyways more efficiently.
Please feel free to add that little idea to the root comment.
Great points. I don't have much RC experience but I'm wondering if dampening or slowly dampening pitch controls from the radio between modes would help?
im glad someone else mentioned counterweights in the motor housing
@@cassiuswilhelm9640 I added your comment and tagged you because it is a good idea, but I don't know if this will be very benefitial for roll and yaw stability and overall stability because he uses differential thrust to control yaw in horizontal flight and well as roll in hover mode. You can think about it like this: You and your equaly weighing friend are sat on a seesaw at the park and you are oscillating up and down. The further out you sit and/or the more you weigh, the more force you will require to slow yourself down and bounce back up. If you are light and/or sit towards the middle, you don't need as much force because your rotational inertia is not as high as in the other case. In @Tom Stanton 's case, it would be beneficial to have as little weight as possible in the wings so that when he rolls or yaws, there isn't much roll or yaw intertia, respectively. Also, adding weight far away from the CG will have a huge impact on PID tuning, but he will have to do that anyway. Hope this makes sense. :)
yeah, also bigger wing would be nicer
Extraordinary engineering, I appreciate the progress in each Osprey video and you taking time to explain every small detail.
It's also cool that Matt contacted you regarding his design, I wouldn't expect that from some running a commercial business regarding the same.
you have no idea how excited i have been for the release of this video
congrats on 1M as well, it’s well earned and deserved
Me to
Same here
SAME
i love watching this series. I am a specialist for this airframe and love watching your solutions to problems you run into
I'm glad you made it a scale model because it's REALLY interesting to see what kind of challenges the real aircraft designers had to overcome. Obviously they're dealing with much different scales and weights, but still fun to see
Exact to scale models of aircraft will work differently, meaning that challenges will not be the same.
We need to remember the difference between flying and falling with style, as Woody said 😂😂
Rotors on the osprey are definitely larger compared to the body as opposed to this drone
@@jonslg240 true
Are the stl files available?
You're definitely practicing the mantra of flying "two mistakes high" it's so cool to see the progress on this project!
I often flew in & out of Arlington, Texas Airport. At that time, the V22 Osprey was being built & flight tested occasionally using that nearby non-tower field for flight testing. Was amazed to see it fly, & even more so as the engines were moved from verticle flight to normal horizontal. The thing accelerated CRAZY FAST
I bet that since youre showing how this can be done, others will probably do it too. Like in the future there might be a whole other part of the RC hobby thanks to you. This is really some innovative stuff youve been working on
I agree! It is really awesome that he is sharing his knowledge while building it! Amazing!
What a fantastic project with skills way beyond anything I might be capable of. I've tried flying an Osprey V22 on my simulator with a total lack of success (not that it matters when repairs are a mere key click away!) so kudos for flying your prototype so well. Really well done.
Yep I agree, the effort and time put into this project is unbelievable. I would have given up about 7 mins after the idea came into my head.
The level of expertise on design for 3D printing and also flight control is just off the charts here. Mad respect, Tom. Would it be possible to mount a couple of small batteries in the bottom end of the nacelles, as counterweights?
damn, too late, had the same idea! :D If you put the batteries there, you could even use shorter power cables.
Yeah I just commented the same thing. It seems to be the obvious answer.
very nice. The solution to your Centre of Gravity shift during transition is to balance the nacelles so as they move the balance point doesn't shift. you will need to move the motor back as a counter balance to the head. I would even consider mounting the batteries in the nacelles too. Also the swash plate design is a far better method of control as it allows for a constant head speed even in wing borne flight using collective pitch to control airspeed and very precise cyclic control in hover. Suspect to get it fly nicely in all aspects your going to have treat it like a conventional Tandem helicopter and plane rather than a drone. But its is great to see.
Came here to say this.
The simplest solution would probably be to add a longer axle to the motors, moving them closer to the pivot point, which also moves more weight much closer to the center of lift and the center of gravity, both of the nacelles and the aircraft as a whole.
Is there any reason why the motor can’t be mounted at the level on the wing spar and drive the rotor head via a shaft? Still tilt the rotor head but have a universal joint at the rotation axis for the head. The other options you brought up with weight shifting a battery or counter weights in the nacelles sound … overly complex?
I’d think the only acceptable ‘counterweight’ in the nacelles would be the battery(it’s) them selves.
damm
That fuselage is a work of art.
I could totally sense your heart racing on that very first transition--best part of working with VTOLs
I've been waiting for this part 2 for quite some time!!
(Congratulations on 1M too!)
Bravo!
AMAZING, my wife and I are very impressed that, with nothing but raw materials, parts, etc you've built quite an impressive model, a working, visually appealing model
Kudos to you
This vase-mode printing technique is totally awesome! Seems like something that could be automated and included into slicers in the future
It is!
It already exists though
@Buzás András which slicer has it?
@Buzás András No, they don't. OP is talking about the vase mode infill, not just vase mode
Very nice. I’m a ex Spacex employee/current helicopter pilot. From the video, it looks like it needs more tail pitch authority. It was interesting watch you work through designing a rotor head. The reason that the wind sent your “fully articulated” version into uncontrolled flight would be due to dissymmetry of lift. Very neat project. Well done.
I'm curious, how did you go from SpaceX to helicopter pilot? Asking cause both careers are of immense interest for me as I'm studying aeronautical engineering and love the idea of flying aswell
@@evertaj2438 I got fired for tweets. Don’t work at Spacex. I worked final integration building rockets. Fired for tweets from 2019. Years before I was ever employed.
@@lennymecca968 wow thats crazy man elons always talking about free speech and stuff lol only when it suits his petty needs
@@lennymecca968 I know it's not related but do you think your tweets were genuinely bad enough to be worth firing.
@@seanwood5443 Maybe he said something genuinley worth firing. For example if you were to publicly insult your boss you wouldn't deserve your job. Firing someone for insulting you is different than firing someone for their opinion outside the job.
The fuselage looks absolutely amazing! Would love to see it sanded and painted
Would love to see a part whenever you come up with some ideas/time to work on them. Really impressed with the cad to get it to print/slice so well in vase mode. Love it, congrats on getting it this far!
The way you model in the stiffener ribs is revolutionary. I really hope slicing softwares add that feature and give credit to your idea.
I, over here, would've just done a basic shell model and let Cura infill the shell. The ribs were a brilliant idea 👌
This has been a feature of 3dlabprint aircraft for at least a couple years
I don't think that the plural of software is softwares, in the same way that the plural of lego bricks is not "laygoes", the singular of saving is not savings, and the name of the bit of a race track which isn't curved is not the "straightaways".
Quite amazing really. As I watch you flying it trying to unravel the secrets of its flight dynamics I imagined the original Osprey engineers following quietly along And enjoying this immensely.
Hey Tom ... I can't help but wonder what it's like going through life as an actual full fledged wizard brainiac. Simply glorious what you accomplish in a home workshop as the designer/fabricator/pilot. Any single one of those abilities is nearly "unobtanium" for mere mortals such as me.
Endless thanks for your fabulous content!
DT
You’re a wizard, Tom! Astounding problem-solving abilities, both in the physics of flight as well as the 3D printing issues. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your videos!!
Its great for Matt to share his designs with you so freely. I know not a lot of people trying to commercialize would do so to that extent.
That Cg shift could be fixed by offsetting the motor tilt servo to the back of the nacelle and using a linkage instead of gearing. You have plenty of space inside the nacelle so it should be possible.
In general rotating things should always be balanced, especially if it's a flying thing 😉
Anyway, awesome project as usual. It would be great if you could show a bit more of the process that goes into the stabilizing algorithm and the command and control.
Also hope you get to use all these weird rotors in another project.
Had the same thought. Moving the motor back to the center of rotation and using a "drive shaft" to the front of the nacelle where some kind of ball joint (like in a FWD car, I don't know the technical term) sits, to enable the pivot motion of the rotor.
top comment right here, tom needs to see this
Motor in nacelle could be balanced with useful weight of additional battery. 😉
Yep, I had the same thought. Also might cheat the motor position and/or the pivot location to help achieve a balanced nacelle. Might lose a tiny bit of scale perfection, but it might be worth it.
Really an awesome project :) What about adding two smaller batteries to the lower (back) part of the nacelles? I imagine the original has the pivot point around the center of mass of the nacelle and by moving the batteries in there you might automatically shift the battery as needed.
My first thought also! Use the batteries as the counterweight. And consider the suggestion of a longer shaft on the motor below. Combine these two, and you can probably get the CG to stay put during the transition.
@@markdriedger9464 That would also move the pivot point of the thrust vectoring mech though
This thing is amazing!
Here's an idea I had, since you seem to also enjoy working with comically impractical means of propulsion:
Inertial Shifting Helicopter
Unlike traditional helicopters, this one does not use changing motor speed or rotor angle of attack to vary its lift. Instead, it relies on weights in the rotor system which can move in or out, closer or further from the center of rotation, thus affecting moment of inertia and exploiting conservation of angular momentum to change the speed of the rotors and therefore the lifting power. This would work similarly to how a figure skater rotates faster when pulling their arms inwards.
You would need a motor with fixed speed and perhaps a sort of clutch mechanism to allow speed changes to occur without disrupting the motor. Maintaining altitude might also be a problem.
It's probably stupid, and I haven't fully thought all this out, but let me know if you think the idea has any merit.
Love your channel. Thanks!
Proud of how far you have come Tom, both in the projects and here on youtube. I followed you when you "only" got a couple thousand views per video. Great to see you get the recognition you deserve
indeed!
Wow! So good to see and hear the story of your projects. It really makes it real to witness your struggles dips and turns and successes! That was a lot of work! The engineering, the science & the video! Grats!
great work Tom: a joy to watch the development of your Osprey. This video also gives you and everyone an understanding of the problems experienced by the design team of the actual Osprey.
I was thinking the same at the end a internal counter wait that can shift so the transition is smooth. Making the battery shift instead is an even better idea would save lots of weight. Great job on the project love it!
damn really nice idea on using the battery as the weight element. props
What an awesome series! Your Osprey looks and functions amazingly well! Great work Tom!
Most impressive! You might want to review the numerous V-22 "incidents" for insight on potential failures before they result in a 'RUD' of your very own, and smash all that amazing work... great job!
At least it's mostly 3D printed so he can always repair it.
one of the most jankiest aircraft, if it wasnt for the billion dollar contract they would of grounded all of them...
@@nickademuss42 Exactly what I was thinking... good translation! 😜
@NitroRustlerDriver Yeah, but when it takes 4 days just for the fuselage, if there were a "total hull loss", the time to repair it adds up
Even though it didn't like the "fully forward" mode, I still think this is absolutely bloody brilliant and a major achievement. Congratulations.
Just discovered your channel and this VTOL series. Loved the detail and progression.
V1 "Campervan" VTOL was cute but this one looks the business. Really interesting to see you integrating so many different aspects of software, mechanical, electronic and aero engineering together [successfully] 👍
So cool, great to see this project come alive. On the Osprey the “flaps” are called flaperons since they are a combination of flaps and ailerons. Dolphin spinning numb chucks was the way I always explained to people what the Osprey looks like 😂
Excellent slo mo video. So cool to see what really is going on there - the flex of the rotor blades surprised me.
Tom, that flight at the end. Sick! And your thoughts on weight shifting is exactly what came to my mind while watching. Great job!
This is incredible work. You are fantastic at explaining your development, and the pace is perfect. Liked and subscribed. Thanks!
Awesome build! Perhaps moving the motors closer to the pivot point and using an extended (supported) shaft would keep the center of mass closer to the same spot. I'm sure you will find a solution , and I am looking forward to seeing it.
That was my first thought but that requires an articulated shaft to maintain his vectoring feature
Hm? Keeping the head assembly and moving the motor back with a fixed axle ending where the motor axle currently ends should not require any extra articulated joints? There seems to be enough space in the nacelle to achieve static balance of the nacelle contents.
Awesome model!
Tom! Your content is so great you get a like by default, even before watching the video(btw, the fuselage looks amazing!
Great job so far. Here in San Diego we have 2 Marine bases, Camp Pendleton and MCAS Miramar, which luckily makes Ospreys a very common sight.
As someone who has flown a lot of RC planes and flown some crazy ones, this thing looks like it flies AMAZINGLY for a home brew.
That is seriously impressive. The only thing you need to sort out is lift in forward mode. But hover and half hover looks amazing.
You can add a stabilizer to elevators like on the real plane. Thus balancing the cg while transitioning. Also smaller incriments would better. Only problem is the size . You will need a much bigger servo space than the current model. Actually Tom you are my idol. Always amazing projects.
Great video, Tom! It's awesome seeing all the things you've explored through this project.
One suggestion - You've mentioned several options to solve the weight movement issue during transition, but I think you missed an obvious simple solution. Instead of trying to move mass (complicated) or counterbalance the motors' movement (heavy), you should see if you can add a coupler/extension shaft to the motors so that you can keep the rotors in position, but move the mass of the motors close to the pivot, which would reduce your c.g. shift in transition to/from forward flight/hover. There's nuances to solve in this too, no doubt, but I'm sure you can figure it out. Keen for the next part!
hehe thats almost a V280
Counterbalancing is fine as long as you only move parts that were already added
When i read it right for years, the biggest problem with the Osprey was in the devlopment that they had massiv issue when transiening between the modes, even some test models crashed because of this. Good job to this point, you came as far as the devs from the first development
I was daydreaming about making such things >thinking that, that might help me getting job in one major company !!> how silly of me...its already done by him!!!
Fantastic bravo!!! I have a suggestion for the moving CG issue without adding weights:
Move the motors down and nearer their axis of rotation, with a longer propellor shaft (in bearings). Then when transitioning, the weight of the motors will not move very far.
I spent a lot of time around V-22s back when I was active duty, and this model definitely seems to behave very close to a real V-22 aside from the lower stability during hover. As DZARO commented, a slower transition time will definitely help negate the gyroscopic effect. I've been excited for the next part of this build, great work!
Awesome! I'm sure someone else already suggested this but have you considered using two batteries and placing them in the nacelles as counterweights? It could have other benefits too - like reducing the stress on the airframe during flight and increasing roll/yaw inertia for a bit more stability.
Regarding the shifting of mass of motors. I think another solution to balancing the motors would be to drop the motor further down into the pod and add an axle to transmit power to the prop. Of course this would mean adding another bearing but the weight would be significantly smaller than a counterweight while still achieving the desired effect.
Wouldn't mind seeing that tested
That was my first thought, I was about to comment the same thing!
Tom, the 3D printing techniques shown here are impressive. Advanced stuff 👏🏼
Awesome!
Original Osprey took around 90 seconds to convert from airplane mode to hover mode and vise versus, and it mostly had to do with optimizing lift/airspeed. The fact yours is able to transition so quickly and not violently lose control is actually quite amazing.
Another thing with the center of balance issue, the V-22 has a heavy driveshaft running through the central wing, so the lacels are not as major of a weight shift to the overall airframe as it is on your model. I suspect you need more powerful motors, thicker propellers and some center of mass adjustments, and I’m willing to bet that you’ll get greatly improved performance.
Amazing stuff!
It is so nice to see the progression! Looking forward to part 3?!
I love these types types of videos, and this ones the best I've seen in a while. Thank you :)
Move the motors (centre of mass) down as close as you can to the tilt point between the wings and engine cover. And use some sort of extension for propellers to clear the top of the engine cover. This should fix the weight shifting issue when going back to hover mode and when in full forward flight.
It's incredible to think about the engineering and creativity that goes into building something as complex as a V22 Osprey! The Osprey is such a unique aircraft with its ability to take off and land like a helicopter and fly like a plane. The mechanics and technology behind it are truly fascinating. It's always inspiring to see the dedication and skill involved in such intricate projects. Keep up the great work! 🛠✈🚁
Guessing it's been suggested, but I'd be interested to see if the shifting-CG problems could be solved just by weighting the back of the nacelles so the CG of the motor assembly is right in line with the pivot. Then no matter if you're in hover mode or forward flight, the overall CG wouldn't be moving. Great vid as always, love seeing the work that's gone into making this one work!
He addressed that at the end of the video if you watch I'll the way through, he doesn't want to add any extra weight considering it already struggles
I think it might transition better to hover if you slowed the transition down, you'd have more reaction time to get the imbalance under control.
change the gear ratio ?
That looks hard to fly, even more respect to the pilots of the real deal, also this is an amazing project of yours and it's so interesting to watch.
And lastly your voiceover is great! Good pace, good explaining and a good voice for voiceovers in general!
I'd love to see your model tested in a wind-tunnel! The flight characteristics of your print when going full-forward seem due to aerodynamics and weight distribution because your electronics were solid👍 Thanks for sharing your cool Osprey!
I think at least part of the reason it was pitching back when you transitioned to hover was because you were still trying to slow down and were pretty much flaring as you transitioned, so when the propellors rotated they ended up pitched really far back. You can se it really well at 20:29.
Yeah, that nacelle transition looked pretty fast also. The real aircraft does it very, very slowly, as it simultaneously slows down, keeping the nacelle angle within the allowed angle bracket for the current IAS at all times. It's a pretty complex transition.
I think you should put the motor closer to the wing spar but keep the propellers where they are. On the real Osprey the center of mass of the engines is probably close to the spar if not inline with it
This was incredible. I would LOVE to recreate it
Falling out the sky is still TECHNICALLY flying - until you hit the ground. So good work.
Does it immediately crash with green army men inside?
BRO THIS ONE IS RC NOT REALLLL
We know bro, learn how to know the difference between a joke and a serious sentence.@@Creativethoughts-i6i
Would love to see some retractable landing gear, if weight allows. Really well done!
Makes you really think how hard it was to build the real ones
That is an awesome project , Tom . I've watched you and your projects over the years . I hope that your channel and all its visual proof , that speaks volumes about your creativity and tenacity to follow through with your projects will catch the eye of a great firm to work for . I wish you the best , Tom . I think the movable battery in the fuselage may solve your problem . I hope it does . I want to use some of that resin to bring back a couple of planes that hasn't been made in years . Thanks for sharing , keep designing and building.
Terry
When are we getting part 3?!?!?!
Fax. When? Please!
I'm sorry to say, but it will ether be No or like on the 5 year anniversary
I'll remind you
If you can fit a battery in the back of each nacelle that would balance them. (hopefully) and give you more flight time. That would simulate the fact the turbine is mounted in the back of the real Osprey for probably the same reason. Edit: Also from having been around the aircraft it looks like your horizontal stab is slightly scaled to small compared to the rest of the aircraft.
For the transition back to hovering mode, you should be able to slow the rate that this occurs at. Either in the x9d remote or in the coding for it. Just an idea. I love this project it's my favorite plane great job!
I was thinking the same thing. It seems like the motors need to go back vertically much much slower, so it doesn't have such a dramatic weight shift. Worth trying at least.
The simple solution to your weight shift issues is to adjust the point on the tilt rotors where they connect to the wing. If you adjust the connection point on the tilt rotors 50% closer to the blades, you'll find that pretty much stabilizes in place the mass of the tilt rotor regardless of flight mode. Really nice project ya got yourself, there. Congrats.
In Veritasium's latest video at the US Navy's indoor wave testing facility, they are able to get very realistic looking video captures of the ships going over waves by slowing the time down. Maybe there is some math involved in this as well, where if you slow it down so it looks like the real osprey, you could better analyze the differences in the flight characteristics of your model.
If someone steals the air craft valor is it stolen valor.
It took 2 years to figure out that the engine and the gears should be connected.
The Valor uses get engine for extra speed if sand or dust gets in the engine the valor would destabilize.
The USA military wants 3 per a day by 2030.
The new copters can't be used in desert and on beaches.
incomprehensible
@@crunchybones2528 He is going on about the US Army's replacement for the Black Hawk. While it is a program that is destined to fail (like he said, 3 delivered per day until 2030), I have no idea how that is related to the above comment or why post it here?
This was awesome! I guess the problem with the full forward flying position is highly related to the proportion. The aircraft seems to be very close in proportions to the real thing, but, looking at some pictures of the aircraft, I have noticed that the blades of the rotors in your model are considerably smaller than the ones on the actual V-22. Try enlarging the blades and see if it makes a difference!
Another possible solution that wouldn't add much weight would be to recess the motors back into the nacelle to where they're located at about mid chord on the wing. You'd need to add a driveshaft and bearing and have a tilt head that's independent of the motor. But that would eliminate the weight-shift problem.
When it's far away, it realy looks like a full scale aircraft. Only the sound gives it away, you made a great job! Also, you can cancel the changing center of mass, when transitioning bact to hover mode, with some moving weight, since you don't need space for passengers or anything.
This video has popped up in my suggested for a couple months and I'm so glad I finally clicked the video. I love videos like this!
Amazing work on this project. Cant imagine the engineering that goes into designing a mission-capable V22
I believe what you are experiencing in transition to hover can be a mix of two things, the weight distribution and something called Vortex Ring State (VRS) which is common in both helicopters and tiltrotors like the V-22. I recommend lowering the servos in the nasales to help with COM, and for VRS you could and a function to the transition key on your control to modulate your throttle to be less powerful in half and forward flight. When switching back to hover you increase throttle to maximum to flush the VRS phenomenon. I hope this will help can't wait to see more videos on the topic.
I can feel your excitement when it flies! And your perseverance is a lesson to all of us - if at first you don't succeed, try again, and again, until successful! ;-)
This is absolutely beautiful, i love to see the real efforts.
This is so amazing, the amount of knowledge and problem solving abilities in this video is baffling
the amount of work and engineering that goes into this project just for fun is really humbling, like I really wish to have one day enough capacities to just go ahead and produce my own prototype of fpv plane
Amazing stuff! Well done and this was a great video to watch as well, I was enthralled throughout.
what a fantastic work! well done! I noticed a few things that might help you. When you transition to having props to point forward, you are cutting your wing surface to half compared to hover mode. Reason is spinning blades act as a wing surface when your are past hover speed causing something called translational lift. on top of that, when in forward flight mode, the engine is far in front of the wing making it more nose heavy. the lightest weight solution for the engine issue would be to use a longer prop shaft and allow the engine to sit closer to the pivot of the engine enclosures.
Fantastic! When your V22 landed, I thought for sure little green army dudes would be running out the back! 😄
I love your videos and I've been following your projects for a while. I have a suggestion you may want to consider
When transitioning to a hover, the rotor disk is going from negative AoA to level or positive. This WILL increase overall lift, rotor speed being constant. The rotor disk should be treated as low-efficiency wing area. With that in mind, you may find that shifting the CG to compensate for the motors' physical position will not be enough. I get this idea from another VTOL model I saw many years ago in an RC magazine that had a similar problem even though there was NO change in CG due to motor rotation. The pitch-up moment was so strong the aircraft would loop, and no amount of trim would compensate. If I remember correctly, the solution in the article was to decrease the speed of transition as well as reducing thrust. Another thing I remember reading about early test aircraft that the V22 is based on was that the pilots controlled the rotor thrust axis directly, with no fixed stops. This was operated much like electric trim controls, with a button that moved the rotors forward, and one that moved them back, on the stick. As the pilots began the transition to hover, they would repeatedly "bump" the rotors back, and adjust thrust, to maintain level flight, rather than have fixed forward/45/hover positions for the rotors. You see a similar control scheme in the AV 8 B Harrier jump jet with it having a lever to position the angle of the jet nozzles freely from straight back to slightly forward.
this guy is great, wow this is so good. All you have to do is move the centre of gravity with motor shift. By moving the battery that could work or reengineer the motor's impact on centre of gravity.