agreed also, that's also due to how bad it is in comparison to the actual wrestling ability and all the flashing lights/gimmics which seems to be the main focus these days. My little kid bro watches modern day wwe.... I dug out all my old wwf video's from late 80's - 90's and now he watches all of those (thanks to the internet even he loves how technical the matches were compared to the modern day crap its turned into) such a shame
He was a stooge....he knew what was going to happen.. the fact that you idiots can not make a connections between actors and that their job is to act... is unbelievable.
Jim Ross was the audio heartbeat to the WWF/WWE for decades and will always be for me! Love the guy, he dedicated decades to Vince McMahon and his company. He should have a higher ranking position in that company today! Nothing was greater than listening to him and Jerry The King Lawler call those matches. I’m no longer a fan of wrestling anymore, but I would be lying to say I didn’t love it growing up. Love good ole J.R. And wish him nothing but the best in his life
JfnDWatchesVids It sounds like a good idea..but what would you do with the belt after that though? Have superstars fight for it? And couldn't Vince M sue you for saying the words "wwf" belt on another network or something. I suppose they could have just thrown into the garbage like wcw did with the wwf woman's title.
Vince knew he wouldn't show up with the belt. He had already sued and won for the Alundra Blaze showing a WWF logo on their program. He just did it as a fuck you to Bret for trying to stand up to him.
@@beasthuntersixsixsix6897 - well we don't know that mate. Can't conclusively comment on what somebody else might've done as we aren't them or in their mind. We do know he commented on the "Rights and wrongs in professional wrestling" in his first WCW promo though.
@@SunnySinghSaid great response my guy , i love coming across comments where theres a clear explanation to your thought process instead of bickering amongst each other
He didn’t have a contract with the WWF at the time. He was being paid on an appearance by appearance basis. That is why he was able to leave WWF and show up on WCW TV 6 days later.
Bret’s biggest mistake was agreeing to have a match with Shawn in the first place. In October he told Shawn “I’m happy to put you over at Survivor Series.” Shawn replied “I appreciate that but I wouldn’t put you over if the situation was reversed”. Immediately after this happened Bret should’ve went to Vince and said “I’m not having a match with Shawn under any circumstances. You can say whatever you want, I don’t care. I won’t step in the ring with him. Change the main event, put me in the ring with someone else and I’ll drop the belt. If you keep Shawn in the main event then I won’t show up.” Then Vince would have no choice but to back down like he did when Warrior threatened to no show SummerSlam 1991.
Brett literally tried telling Vince that, he told Vince that had Shawn not have told him that, he would've dropped the belt to him but Shawn told Brett if the tables were turned he wouldn't put him over. Brett even had in his contract that he had say over his contract. He didn't even wanna leave WWE. But after Shawn told Brett what he did, Brett tried to work with Vince but ultimately told him that after Shawn disrespected him like that he simply wasn't dropping the belt to put him over. That's the whole point the screw job happened because regardless in vince's eyes he couldn't jump ship with the wwf belt and refusing to drop the belt to Shawn, again regardless of the situation, Brett was refusing to do business in vince's eyes. So since he refused to do business, Vince called the match when Shawn hit the sharpshooter. Ive sided with Brett since I heard/saw the screw job. Shawn was cocky and arrogant, was difficult to work with and he was so popular that he basically could get away with anying. He had little to no respect for anyone but Shawn and given that he and Brett never really liked each other anyways, Shawn definitely had no respect for Brett. So despite his pride, pleading, and what angles Brett was willing to work after Shawn's remark, Vince agreed then came out and said "fuck you Brett" anyways
From what I could find, Bret did tell Vince that, but Vince wanted Shawn to leave with the title and was trying to find ways to make it happen. What should have happened was that Shawn should have either been removed from the match or the match should have been made a Triple Threat Match, with the Undertaker set to pin Bret and win the title, with Shawn later winning it on Raw or another PPV before Royal Rumble. Either that or have Bret lose the title before Survivor Series. It's mindboggling to me that Vince told him to go speak with Russo before taking the belt off him.
@@tjjordan4207They could of had a triple threat against Shamrock the next night on Raw. Ken had been in a program with both Bret and Shawn before SS, he actually had them both beat on individual matches between them before outside interferences took place. Have that triple threat and have HBK pin Shamrock due to shenanigans. Bret leaves without the belt and without having been beat by Shawn, Shawn gets the belt and keeps it warm for Austin at Wrestlemania and Shawn and Ken still have their match at the following PPV. But no, Vince had to have his way
It was already going in that direction. Once Austin became champ is when they began beating WCW in the ratings. Shawn getting injured and Vince finally being done with him was the best thing that couldve happened.
Once Bret and Shawn departed and Austin took the helm as the poster boy of the WWF, The Attitude Era made more stars than any other generation before or after it. It was a hot bed for talent and up and comers, it wasn't the same stale matches and even mid-carders became more entertaining than the heavy weight division. Watching exciting mid-card fights made the anticipation for the main draw (Austin, Rock, Triple H, Undertaker etc) more exciting too watch, it became more of a show and they finally had a formula that worked both for live crows and the TV/home audience.
@@goodplenty534 in in hindsight you can say that but in reality if Bret would have won and Vince wouldn't took that punch by Bret , it might have happened differently , but who knows what would have been the outcome. Gladly it took the turn for the best.
@@Jameslawz Not really. Ruthless Aggression had way more stars and better wrestling. Attitude Era has stupid stuff like Kennel from Hell match, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, pudding matches, Val Venis and Kaitentai, the Union, etc. Attitude Era is overrated.
@@shawnr7730 It was in his contract that he got to pick when he dropped the title. He agreed to drop the title after the Canada PPV. He even offered to work a couple extra days off contract to resolve the issue. He just didn't want to lose in Canada. Its pretty cut and dry lol.
This is the match that marked the end of true WWF wrestling. The attitude era happened on the coat tails of this event, but it was never the same after this match.
But not really because of that… I really hated wrestling at the time but had to watch it because my dad watched it. It took a couple years to shake out and the rock and stone cold eventually saved it… the shake out of Michael’s and HHH being heels was a thing but only as foils to Austin and the rock honestly. The only reason this happened is baecause they wanted to “make” michaels and HHH was really buddies with him and dating the boss’s daughter. It was kind of dumb to the locker and they all really disliked those dudes who up to that point were gimmickry as an English butler and a good wrestler but a dude with a bunch of problems and constantly whining who just looked ridiculous against other really great wrestlers who were better and bigger like hart. So… sure the company found their footing but not because of the screw job. They could have done it with hart in the company because he was already part of trying to make Austin and the rock would have happened anyways. There’s no reason they couldn’t have all coexisted…
It could've been prevented. As in any dispute you often bring in a third party. There was a common denominator: Undertaker. Both Shawn and Bret had feuded with him in recent months with the latter being in the Hell in the Cell weeks earlier. So basically they should've made it a triple threat match: Undertaker vs. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels. Bret probably would've agreed to drop the belt to Taker. So you bring in Taker as a third party, since neither Bret nor Shawn wanted to lay down for each other. So Bret drops the belt to Taker in a three way at Survivor Series then drops it to Shawn at the Royal Rumble and Shawn drops it to Austin at Wrestlemania like normal. I know I risk sounding like an armchair booker, but it seems like a logical choice.
that's the thing about story tellers... they have be good at lying....Jim Ross knew what was gonna to happen. it's been confirmed by Vince and HBK and Triple H that Jim knew it was happening...he was even in on the planning it out.
I also just started listening to JR's podcast, and was listening to the interview with Goldberg, and must say for his podcast it's better for him not to be in the WWE because it allows him to open up way more than he would being in the WWE..but man, listening to JR's ideas, and thoughts about the direction of the business, in WWE and TNA, and just what he thinks should happen, and how things should be and what not...it's obvious that one can not always be right, but wow..listening to this man talk wrestling, it becomes very apparent that WWE is missing, and fired such a great wrestling mind for the direction it's now going.
I agree. Love Good ol' JR. The worst part is WHY they fired him. You'll hear people saying they fired JR because he was "drunk" (Which I doubt) during a promotional thing for WWE video games. Well, pretty sure Ric Flair was wasted drunk during one of those "Legends" table meetings that was televised, and they brought him back. I genuinely think they don't want JR in WWE because of how he looks and sounds. WWE is so image obsessed. He's too old and the bell's paulsy is a "turn off" to fans.
You can thank Kevin Dunn and Vince Russo for convincing Vince to take him off television because fans won’t like the way JR looks cause of his Bell’s palsy. Also Ric Flair has no business being on TV especially since 1- he was drunk and 2- he was still mourning the death of his son. When Ric buried Daniel Bryan and exposed Cena JR got the blame for not controlling the situation and ended up getting fired.
I met Earl Hebner in an airport a few years ago and asked him about this and he flat out told me that Bret deserved everything he got. He said Bret was being a baby about losing the belt and didn't want to do the right thing. He said the screw job was absolutely a real thing.
Bret Hart put Shawn Michaels over multiple times, but Shawn refused to do the same for Bret. That's why Bret didn't want to lose to Shawn again. If Bret was wrestling someone else at Survivor Series, he would've had no problem dropping the belt.
Back in the early 90's HBK always jobbed to Bret Hart so learn y'all facts he always lost to Bret until Bret Hart finally put him over at Wrestlemania 12
Jim Ross was actually head of talent relations at the time. (If you don't know the head of talent relations is the person the wrestlers can go to when they have problems with anything like pay, or booking issues.) Vince and the rest of his inner circle wanted the wrestlers to be able to trust Jim when they went to him and didn't want him to have to lie to them and break that trust because his job centered around being there for the wrestlers when they had a problem with anything.
when u watch bret then shawn both speak about the ''screw job'' in their interviews that lead us to this youtube video...u find out that bret is the bigger man
There are several decisions in WWE that made Vince reveal his true colors as a world class jerk. This was one of them. He is a great businessman though
The only heel in this situation is Brett Hart. He attempted to leave the WWF without relinquishing the title, effectively burying the company that made him.
@@mazzvidz Bret had still a month left in his contract with WWF hence his delayed debut in WCW, plenty of time to relinquish the title, it's not like he had to leave WWF right after Survivor Series. Shawn just wanted to fuck Bret in Canada just like he did with the Bulldog in UK in front of his dying sister.
@@mazzvidz u an idiot if you don't know what he's talking about basically vince benefited as a heel moving forward and his character actually played a part in the attitude era moving forward
@@mazzvidz Guess again Bret was willing to drop the belt except to Shawn after the shennanigans earlier that year when Shawn claimed he needed knee surgery to avoid the rematch, Bret even tried to phone Eric Bischoff to get his WCW debut held off so that Raw on the Monday night could have been an option to drop the belt. The asshole was Vince who was shit scared that Bret might take the belt because the WWF had little to offer and losing Bret was something that Vince did not want to become public knowledge for fear of the fans who hated Shawn turning to follow Bret on WCW, and yes Shawn was not liked by a lot of fans for his in ring antics, nor in the back either for his out of control behavior.
I love all you people that comment Bret should have done the job to Shawn like so many others beforehand. Please do some research. Bret offered to lose the title to anyone on the roster other than Shawn (and would have lost to Shawn if Shawn lost to him first do to HBK's comment that he would never put Bret over...BTW, even Shawn doesn't deny he said that to Bret. That's about as big an insult that one wrestler can say to another.) Also, WWE no longer denies that Bret offered to lose to anyone else on the roster. Why wasn't that good enough for WWE? Couldn't they have had Bret lose to someone and then have HBK win the belt a week or two later if they really wanted the belt on him? I never understood that part. Also, Bret had creative control over his character. Yes, Bret's ego was big and that didn't help (the losing in Canada crap was a BS excuse on Bret's part. He should have just said he wouldn't lose to Shawn...period. That was the real issue), but given how much of an a-hole HBK was at that time, I can certainly see Bret's point. Also, I love all the comments about how Bret should have willingly lost because he was leaving the company. Vince terminated his contract in September and told him to talk to WCW. Vince was also 2-3 months behind in paying Bret. What the heck was Bret supposed to do? Just sit around and continue to not get paid? Any of you would have done the same thing as Bret (ie. take the offer from WCW) He literally had no choice but to sign with them. And the contract that Bret signed with Vince a year earlier was for half the salary that WCW had offered him. Hardly a guy that jumped to the highest bidder. Bret always wanted to stay with WWE but they forced him out due to his long contract and that Bret was 40 years old by 1997 and only had a few good years left in him.
"The Montreal Screwjob" is the WWE equivalent of the M*A*S*H episode "Abyssinia Henry". A beloved co worker is leaving to pursue other projects, and in the case of MASH, the character was simply going home, but instead gets killed off. None of the other actors in MASH knew about it until filming the final scene. It makes for great TV and opens up other possible story lines. Colonel Potter gets introduced. "Mr. McMahon" gets introduced. People were outraged and disgusted (in both cases), and were tuning in the following night (or the following season) to see how the show was going to move on.
Nearly seventeen years later, and people still talk about this. So sad that this even happened. Looking back, I can find fault in all 3 guys involved. Vince, obviously, lied to Bret about the planned finish. Shawn refused to put Bret over and that lead to Bret leaving the WWF for WCW. Bret refused to lose in his hometown country. It's sad that Bret even left the WWF. Three men with creative and wrestling savvy, haunted to this day by a moment that lasted maybe ten seconds. I hope one day that all three can put it firmly behind them and never talk about it again.
Bret didn't leave because Shawn refused to do the job..Bret was basically forced over to WCW because Vince couldn't afford to honor his contract. He didn't want to go.
Bret was already leaving for WCW. It's customary for the guy leaving to lay down for the next guy in line at the company being left. Bret refused to lay down for Shawn because it was in his COUNTRY. Not hometown, not province, not region, nothing. A guy from California can't claim Boston as his home crowd. Bret was in the wrong and being arrogant and unprofessional, therefore he got what was coming to him. Very few people strong arm Vince McMahon and get away with it. Luckily for Bret, it's given him something to talk about for the last 17 years. Bret's biggest problem in wrestling wasn't the Montreal Screwjob, it's that he never grasped the concept that wrestling is a work.
bret left for wcw for more money, not because shawn didnt want to put him over lol. He had decided he was leaving months before this match, everyone knew he was leaving, but bret didnt want to pass the title to shawn because their relationship was bad. Bret was refusing to put shawn over and vince had to do what he had to do, even though he shouldnt have lied to bret, but the main fault falls on bret.
***** ^All true, except you're forgetting to mention one crucial thing here: Shawn was scheduled to drop the belt back to Bret in a rematch at WM 13, but opted out by faking a knee injury. Which is the MAIN reason why Bret wouldn't job to him. I don't think it was so much about being in Canada, rather more to do with not putting Shawn over, who refused to put him over earlier in the year, and as we all know, was generally a pain in the ass to work with at the time.
Does anyone else think that this "should" of been a work. It would of been a great angle. Nothing changes, Bret leaves for WCW, Vince becomes Mr McMahon, Shawn becomes champion and Bret technically in storyline purposes hasnt been beaten for the title so doesnt lose any credibility.
As a Canadian, there’s nothing more annoying than when someone says, “Montreal, Bret’s hometown.” Bret is from Calgary, almost 2000 miles from Montreal. About the same as New York to Denver.
I see a lot of people saying Vince did the right thing, but the reality is it should never have gotten this far in the first place. For starters, how silly was it for Vince to orchestrate Bret leaving for WCW and then keep the belt on him? He had all the information and did nothing with it.
Vince is the one guy who i feel absolutely is in the wrong here. Fact is Vince knew these two guys hated each other and he also was the guy who was push for Bret to leave. So to your point Vince keeping the title on Bret when he was leaving much less knowing Bret had creative control once he handed in his notice was him being an idiot. Second Vince had a very easy out dont have the match be Shawn and Bret have it be Taker vs Bret (fans wont boo Taker as badly if at all) then the next night after Bret has left have Shawn challange for the belt, Kane interferes boom title is on Shawn. This was Vince trying to start shit and it blew up in his face but having the ego he does Vince couldnt admit he was wrong so he fucked Bret
Vince didn't think that Bret would be such an overwhelming crybaby and not agree to lose a simple match for the company that made him and treated him well. Vince underestimated how selfish and petty Bret Hart was.
Daniel Moore From a business standpoint I can understand but professionally it's fucked up. It's even worse cause Vince literally lied to Bret's face before the match and told him he was gonna keep the belt. Sure they treated him well but having him leave like that is still super fucked up.
Bret was treating Vince like crap. Bret was treating the entire WWF roster at the time like crap. Earl Hebner said he did what he did because Bret was also screwing him over because he was also part of the WWF roster. Bret was selfish and should have merely did was he was asked(lose a freaking match). Vince isn't going to risk his company going freaking bankrupt on Bret Hart's little pissy bullshit. The only thing I disagree with Vince on was him trying to explain things to Bret afterwards, I would have doublecrossed his sorry ass and gotten the hell outta there with the belt. Good luck going down south with the dinosaurs Bret you sorry selfish sack of pathetic shit.
You obviously dont know anything about what your talking about Daniel, Bret had Creative Control for the last 30 days of his contract he had every right to turn down droping the world title to HBK and Vince knew this. You wanna talk about a guy treating the roster like shit lets look at HBK who spent the last 3 years booking himself to win every title and only losing them through vacating them while people like Bigelow, Bulldog, Ahmed, and Vader have their pushes killed by HBK politicing. Unprofessional, Lets talk about HBK faking an injury to get out of losing to Bret at WM, or outright quitting the company in mid 97 to get more money and kill Brets heel run, or literally showing up at tapings drunk, high, or both. Lets Talk about HBK saying "I will never put you over" when Bret was trying to make peace with the whinny little fuckhead. When you tell the world champion that you will never lose to them and go out of your way to fuck him and his family over Id say Bret had every right to say "nope i wont lose to this guy". Bret even said he was willing to lose to Shawn till Shawn did that little stunt. So no you wanna blame someone blame Vince for constantly fucking Bret a guy who had been with the company for 11 years, worked every date he was asked including a day after his brother died, all to appease this selfish pre madonna who admits he wishes he had gone to WCW to be with his real friends
Montreal Screw Job will always be remembered but at the same time its time for both Bret and Vince and the W.W.E to move on but on this date in time in history this could have been handled a lot better.I understand were Vince was coming from Bret contract is up with W.W.E and WCW is calling for Bret to jump over with them and Bret was not selling out any longer with the W.W.E fans but I think it would have been better if Vince agreed with Bret Hart to drop the belt to Stone Cold Steve Austin {Steve Williams} but How Shawn Michaels attitude was like back then I agree with Bret Hart Shawn was not ready to take the belt because he was lacking the respect to the other wrestler who was champion and would not respect them and this dose call for Concern.
However when Bret Hart returned to the WWE. The first thing they did was have Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart hug it out in the ring. I think that put the nail in the coffin for this whole issue. I think people can let it go now. I also think that's why Shawn started to want to retire. I think he needed that closure for what he did and be forgiven by Bret. HBK is a christian and wanted to make things right for himself. So I think part of him wanted to bury the hatchet with Bret.
dude if bret and shawn were young again they would beat the shit out of each other first sight, of course they needed to hug it out cause there old and nothing else can be done about it. plus wrestling is dead now anyway it had its run..
It doesn't matter how Bret handles it. Shawn went out and sought forgiveness. They were able to let it go as far as he is concern. You know it's been stated before. That they were at one time friends. If Shawn is truly a christian and is a changed man. Then I can understand him wanting closer from this. Bret and how he handles it is up to him.
I stopped watching shortly after this... I remember saying people stopped watching because they found out it was 100 percent fake at that point, it opened the eyes... Looking back... Nah, it closed them back up with a great story. Everyone including me bought it. 👍
I do remember that Shawn barely had Bret in the Sharpshooter, really didn't have it cinched in when Earl Hebner motioned for the bell to ring. Additionally Shawn appeared confused as well; of course, whoever they sided with, this was still their bread and butter. I remember speaking with Bret shortly after he joined WCW; he'd been with WWF for 14 years and only once or twice he'd asked for time off. I told him,"I think a decent employer would've treated you way more fairly; certainly they'd appreciate you for your loyalty." He'd appreciated that I told him that.
earl and vince were in on it - so was shawn but he faked that he wasn't - one or two others definitely were too but the exact truth about others will never be known.
@@mrgobrien I think Bret in his book wrote that Taker said that Shawn admitted that he was in on it to Taker not long after the incident and he told Bret that
I don't think anyone could've predicted the magnitude of what would come from the result of that match tonight. That was the night wrestling kayfabe essentially died, the "Mr. McMahon" character and the Attitude Era were both born out of it, and propelled the WWF/E to success that would allow them to ultimately beat out and eventually buy out WCW.
The only people who knew were ones to gain from it. Vince, Shane, HBK, Earl, (but he had to know being the ref) and a few office people that aren't seen. J.R. has no reason to lie about this happening.
I'm going with wat scott hall has said about this... it was a work listen to him talk about it in the show darkside of the ring on viceland channel and he makes so many points about it that now I'm convinced it was a work
There used to be 30 minute long videos of JR being hilarious and great on commentary when he was with the WWE but they are all gone and have been for years. I miss them so much, because his commentary with Lawler is missed. About the best thing you can do now is go listen to the Smackdown Vs Raw games audio files video on TH-cam that’s got every bit of commentary they did for those games out together. You got your whipped like a government mule, slobber knockers, scalded dog, tougher than a two dollar steak, etc. So great.
If JR ever told me that elephants could fly I'd believe him. Jim never said anything that ever led me to believe he was lying about not being in on the screwjob. Probably the most genuine man throughout the entire wrestling business. If he says he didn't know about it, then I firmly believe he didn't know.
I’ve heard a few story’s and most say Brett had a bunch of people blocking him but he somehow got through with an overhand right that connected on vince 😂👍🥊
I've always thought the MSJ was either the worst display of the back-stabbing face of the business or the most well-thought-out GENIUS story line in the history of the biz.
This entire thing is so dumb. The ONLY reason this was a big deal was because Bret Hart was a entitled cry baby that always wanted to get his way. His nickname shouldn't have been "Hitman". His name should have been, Bret "The Victim" Hart.
I'm a Hitman fan, but he should've just done the job. He was leaving! If he really wanted to be loyal to WWF, he should've stayed, sucked it up, and taken a pay cut like the rest of the boys.
Why should he agree to be buried on the way out? It's his career, he has a right to try to make the best of his career. Also, how do you know "the rest of the boys" got a pay cut? Every single guy in the locker room had a pay cut? You are aware he had a guarantee of certain monies in his contract. As I said before, if your manager at McDonald's called you in and told you to take a pay cut, even though he had no intentions of doing the same himself, would you just say, "I agree, I deserve to have my pay cut!" and go back to serving fries? It's such a stupid notion to think that "hey, he should just get paid less!" when I promise that NO ONE that says that would agree to be paid less in their job.
***** He was leaving. You're supposed to put somebody on your way out even if you don't like them. That's how a professional is supposed to do it. McMahon couldn't afford Hart's contract. Had Hart stuck around for the boom that was to come, he could've gotten the pay raise he wanted.
No you are not "supposed to put somebody on your way out". That's a McMahon fantasy that he created in an attempt to draw sympathy after getting all 24 hours of his clock cleaned by Hart. If you look back over the history of wrestling (I know, you only know WWF from the "Attitude Era" because you're too young to have seen anything else), but there have been plenty of times when guys were kept strong on the way out. There's NO reason AT ALL for Bret to agree to take a high profile loss, even when he's leaving, for many reasons. First, WCW had huge plans for him in the Canadian market, a new market for the company, since they never tried doing anything in the country before, and aforementioned high profile loss was the WWF's way of sticking it to both Bret and WCW, when Hart was leaving. Next, poor McMahon. Yes, he was in the poor house. He told Bret that he was applying for food stamps. He "couldn't afford Hart's contract". BULL. McMahon just didn't WANT to pay Bret. I say again, I know if your manager at McDonald's called you and told you that even though you had a CONTRACT agreeing to certain monies, he changed his mind, and decided not to pay you. So, you, being the great guy you are, went right back to serving those fries and Big Macs. Too bad McMahon signed a CONTRACT with Hart. If he had buyer's remorse, then too bad so sad. There's no reason for Hart to agree to take a pay cut. You'll know these things when you have a CAREER and not a JOB. Of course, when you finally get to man the counter at McDonald's full time, you will readily take all pay cuts offered to you. You'll be the guy who works there for 25 years and never gets a raise. What a generous guy you are. However, in the real world (as in, not yours), these types of things do not happen. Third, Bret's contract SPECIFICALLY called for "reasonable creative control", which Hart admitted he put in so McMahon couldn't bury him on the way out. It's quite reasonable to say, "I don't want to be buried in the market where my new employer is planning big things with me". Not just that, but it's also quite reasonable to not want to lose all his "heat" for the Hitman character. After portraying a pro-Canada, anti-USA heel, to have a high profile loss in Canada is definitely damaging. Again, these are things you'll understand if you leave McDonald's (and I'm not just talking about leaving there to work for Taco Bell) and have an actual CAREER somewhere. He, like any other person in their chosen career, should NOT have to "suck it up and take a pay cut". He's not like you, where you are routinely lied to and asked to get your pay cut, and you agree all the time, because anyone can do your job. How hard can it be to bag fries? Anything else I can disprove for you?
***** 1.) Wrong. Backlund, Graham, and Hogan lost on their way out. That's what this business is supposed to be about! 2.) Bret did not own the WWF. You do what the boss tells you. You don't like it? Tough shit. 3.) Shawn was hot at the time. Getting more heat from beating Hart was the goal to build up Austin. 4.) Of course, he didn't want to pay Bret because they struck the deal with Tyson. McMahon made the right business decision. 5.) Forfeiting the title and giving a goodbye speech on your way out to please your ego is a slap in the face to the business, but go ahead and spin it any way you want.
I don't understand why they didn't just leave the belt on the undertaker back at summer slam '97 instead of having him drop the title to Bret leading into the screw job 3 months later ...
matt Rich That's an easy one, Vince tried to convince Hart to stay, and gave him the championship and a huge money deal, but then realized that he could not afford it, so he asked Bret to accept wcw's offer. Bret said yes, McMahon asked him to lose the title in montreal and well, you know the rest.
Vince should've known that Bret is too honourable to pull an Alundra Blayze with the European Title, let alone the big one. To do this day, I'm convinced that the Screwjob was mostly about Eric Bishcoff than Bret himself.
There are a handful of things a person can say that tell you they're not worth listening to. Some are obvious -'Creationism is true!' etc. Another is 'Montreal was a work, Bret was in on it!'
Jim Ross is full of it he’s always kept his head down and just did his job only ever talks about things afterwards to avoid any heat and even then man stays neutral
Heenan was my all time favorite commentary personality but JR was second. Unlike most ppl though, I actually prefer JR's commentary in WCW and Mid South before that to his WWE commentary. He called it more like a sports announcer whereas, In WWE, he was more animated.
tsstevensts Because they probably weren't in on it. You work the boys, you work the crowd broski. Just like Francine said in the "Forever Hardcore" documentary. And it's the truth. Everyone made out: Vince, Bret, Shawn......everyone. Nobody lost. If it wasn't a work, it worked out perfectly regardless.
Matty Squizzato If you hadn't heard Mark Calaway, The Undertaker, there's a story where after the screwjob he hunted Vince down while he hid in his office, pounded on the door and said, "If you don't open up this door and get your ass out here I'm gonna knock it down and kick it." Vince did answer, and was told, "If you still want to have a company tomorrow you better apologize to Brett," and, "I'm quitting if you don't." The WWF had used such backstage issues as a work before, they used the screwjob in storyline, one would think this would have been shown or brought up were it a work. But it never was. In shoots on McMahon Taker had done whether it be the one he did in 1998, when he turned heel and formed the Ministry or at the end of his Biker run in 2003 I think the screwjob was brought up once, but nothing about how he threatened Vince. Taker would have looked like the biggest babyface on the planet had it, he could have been in the same role Austin was, had the screwjob been a work and they had the Austin McMahon feud and added the Taker McMahon feud based on this very real incident, WCW would not have had the fingerpoke of doom, they would not have had David Arquette or Vince Russo as world champion, WCW would have folded before then. If McMahon did not work it into a feud or storyline then that would suggest that the screwjob in general was real and the way he was threatened in particular was a little too real.
tsstevensts Look, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you, but it sure seems to me, like you know a lot of what would have, and what wouldn't have happened. You mind telling me what this week's LottoMax numbers are going to be?
Matty Squizzato I'm simply going by the evidence. Brett Hart, Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels, Jean Paul Levesque and Earl Hebner all said it was a screwjob, I think they testified under oath that it was and being born again if Shawn copped to lying about it as he said in his book it would stand to reason that he would also admit that it was a work. Brett's wife, Dave Meltzer, Jim Cornette, Mick Foley and Mark Callaway thought it was a shoot. I believe that you are certain it was a work for ratings, but sadly we can no longer ask the likes of Stu, Davey Boy or Owen who also saw it as a screwjob. To put it another way let's take the conspiracy of Elvis faking his death to work for the FBI, he was behind the September 11 attacks and he was chosen because he was one of the Roswell aliens. There's very little to prove any one of these theories, let alone tie all four into one neat package, and a lot working against the idea this is possible. Why would he agree to the attacks? Where is the videos of Bin Laden claiming him claiming responsibility were forged?
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Jim Ross and the King. Greatest ever at calling matches
HAHA YOU MUST BE FORGETTING ABOUT MICHAEL COLE AND BYRON SAXTON!!!!!
+Vince McMahon .,😂😂😂😂😂😂
+Vince McMahon Maggle and Bryon Sexton
+Vince McMahon Oops i forgot we are in the Pg era...........
hmm... Close, but I'd have to go with Ventura/Monsoon. Ross/King is a very close second in my book.
I'm not a wrestling fan anymore, but I find the business side of it fascinating.
Agreed. It's incredible to think all that goes into this
agreed also, that's also due to how bad it is in comparison to the actual wrestling ability and all the flashing lights/gimmics which seems to be the main focus these days.
My little kid bro watches modern day wwe.... I dug out all my old wwf video's from late 80's - 90's and now he watches all of those (thanks to the internet even he loves how technical the matches were compared to the modern day crap its turned into)
such a shame
me too, the back stage old stories are fascinating because there seemed to be a to of drama.
couldn't agree more!
Mr. Chopsticks I thought I was the only one!
How does Jim Ross like to drink his coffee? STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD!
Funnybones buck Newton not funny
Hahahaha I read that in JR's voice haha
Funnybones buck Newton I got an internal chuckle.
Yep.😂😂😂😂
Your too much😆😆
I miss J.R. he was the heart & soul of wwf/wwe
I refuse to watch without Good Ole JR and the King. They were magic.
@@jimmyfaustjr6413 They were the Madden and Summerall of Pro Wrestling.
Jr going to aew now
@@jimmyfaustjr6413 JR got him a nice new payday at AEW
He was a stooge....he knew what was going to happen.. the fact that you idiots can not make a connections between actors and that their job is to act... is unbelievable.
JR was in the "inner circle". Foreshadowing confirmed. lol
Lmfao AEW
Jim Ross was the audio heartbeat to the WWF/WWE for decades and will always be for me! Love the guy, he dedicated decades to Vince McMahon and his company. He should have a higher ranking position in that company today! Nothing was greater than listening to him and Jerry The King Lawler call those matches. I’m no longer a fan of wrestling anymore, but I would be lying to say I didn’t love it growing up. Love good ole J.R. And wish him nothing but the best in his life
I'll never forget these words from JR: "My God, my God!!!" "They've killed heem!!!"
as god as my witness he is broken in half
Reminds me of another one of my favorites: “you son of a bitch!”
We'll see you next week !!! As the program goes off air
By God, stop the damn match!!!
"that's it! He's dead!"
If I was Bret Hart, I would've bought a replica of the title and appeared on Nitro with it...
Lol fr that would of been interesting
Awesome comment. That's exactly the kind of thing Vince McMahon would have wanted to do had Hart been leaving WCW for WWE instead.
JfnDWatchesVids It sounds like a good idea..but what would you do with the belt after that though? Have superstars fight for it? And couldn't Vince M sue you for saying the words "wwf" belt on another network or something. I suppose they could have just thrown into the garbage like wcw did with the wwf woman's title.
Vince knew he wouldn't show up with the belt. He had already sued and won for the Alundra Blaze showing a WWF logo on their program. He just did it as a fuck you to Bret for trying to stand up to him.
***** yes flair first appeared in wwe 9 9 1991.
Rick Rude wasn't scared of losing his job. Fair play to him for sticking to his principles over a job.
because there was wcw around. otherwise he would have silently acceptd it.
@@beasthuntersixsixsix6897 - well we don't know that mate. Can't conclusively comment on what somebody else might've done as we aren't them or in their mind. We do know he commented on the "Rights and wrongs in professional wrestling" in his first WCW promo though.
@@SunnySinghSaid great response my guy , i love coming across comments where theres a clear explanation to your thought process instead of bickering amongst each other
Rick Rude was part of DX at this time.
He didn’t have a contract with the WWF at the time. He was being paid on an appearance by appearance basis. That is why he was able to leave WWF and show up on WCW TV 6 days later.
Bret’s biggest mistake was agreeing to have a match with Shawn in the first place. In October he told Shawn “I’m happy to put you over at Survivor Series.” Shawn replied “I appreciate that but I wouldn’t put you over if the situation was reversed”. Immediately after this happened Bret should’ve went to Vince and said “I’m not having a match with Shawn under any circumstances. You can say whatever you want, I don’t care. I won’t step in the ring with him. Change the main event, put me in the ring with someone else and I’ll drop the belt. If you keep Shawn in the main event then I won’t show up.” Then Vince would have no choice but to back down like he did when Warrior threatened to no show SummerSlam 1991.
Brett literally tried telling Vince that, he told Vince that had Shawn not have told him that, he would've dropped the belt to him but Shawn told Brett if the tables were turned he wouldn't put him over. Brett even had in his contract that he had say over his contract. He didn't even wanna leave WWE. But after Shawn told Brett what he did, Brett tried to work with Vince but ultimately told him that after Shawn disrespected him like that he simply wasn't dropping the belt to put him over. That's the whole point the screw job happened because regardless in vince's eyes he couldn't jump ship with the wwf belt and refusing to drop the belt to Shawn, again regardless of the situation, Brett was refusing to do business in vince's eyes. So since he refused to do business, Vince called the match when Shawn hit the sharpshooter.
Ive sided with Brett since I heard/saw the screw job. Shawn was cocky and arrogant, was difficult to work with and he was so popular that he basically could get away with anying. He had little to no respect for anyone but Shawn and given that he and Brett never really liked each other anyways, Shawn definitely had no respect for Brett. So despite his pride, pleading, and what angles Brett was willing to work after Shawn's remark, Vince agreed then came out and said "fuck you Brett" anyways
From what I could find, Bret did tell Vince that, but Vince wanted Shawn to leave with the title and was trying to find ways to make it happen. What should have happened was that Shawn should have either been removed from the match or the match should have been made a Triple Threat Match, with the Undertaker set to pin Bret and win the title, with Shawn later winning it on Raw or another PPV before Royal Rumble.
Either that or have Bret lose the title before Survivor Series. It's mindboggling to me that Vince told him to go speak with Russo before taking the belt off him.
@@tjjordan4207They could of had a triple threat against Shamrock the next night on Raw. Ken had been in a program with both Bret and Shawn before SS, he actually had them both beat on individual matches between them before outside interferences took place. Have that triple threat and have HBK pin Shamrock due to shenanigans. Bret leaves without the belt and without having been beat by Shawn, Shawn gets the belt and keeps it warm for Austin at Wrestlemania and Shawn and Ken still have their match at the following PPV. But no, Vince had to have his way
The crazy thing is that the Montreal job changed the direction of the company and brought us the attitude era
It was already going in that direction. Once Austin became champ is when they began beating WCW in the ratings. Shawn getting injured and Vince finally being done with him was the best thing that couldve happened.
Once Bret and Shawn departed and Austin took the helm as the poster boy of the WWF, The Attitude Era made more stars than any other generation before or after it. It was a hot bed for talent and up and comers, it wasn't the same stale matches and even mid-carders became more entertaining than the heavy weight division.
Watching exciting mid-card fights made the anticipation for the main draw (Austin, Rock, Triple H, Undertaker etc) more exciting too watch, it became more of a show and they finally had a formula that worked both for live crows and the TV/home audience.
It took sacrificing a legend in order for it to happen the way it did!
@@goodplenty534 in in hindsight you can say that but in reality if Bret would have won and Vince wouldn't took that punch by Bret , it might have happened differently , but who knows what would have been the outcome. Gladly it took the turn for the best.
@@Jameslawz Not really. Ruthless Aggression had way more stars and better wrestling. Attitude Era has stupid stuff like Kennel from Hell match, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, pudding matches, Val Venis and Kaitentai, the Union, etc. Attitude Era is overrated.
Bret spit right in Vince's face then knocked him out in the dressing room.
Yes he did
Also HBK copped a plea talking about he didn't know. He didn't want that smoke
All part of the shoot
Brett was in the wrong...he was leaving and should have done the job and droped the belt.
@@shawnr7730 It was in his contract that he got to pick when he dropped the title. He agreed to drop the title after the Canada PPV. He even offered to work a couple extra days off contract to resolve the issue. He just didn't want to lose in Canada. Its pretty cut and dry lol.
maybe I'm wrong, but I remember Vince yelling to ring the bell.
"Ring the fucking bell" to be exact haha
I heard Hebner say ring the bell, but not Vince. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just never heard Vince say it.
JayTheAdviceGuy YOU'RE FUCKING WRONG!!!!
JayTheAdviceGuy it was Vince, not the Ref
@@SandmanFightingSys You can clearly hear hebner say it too though and motion for it.
This is the match that marked the end of true WWF wrestling. The attitude era happened on the coat tails of this event, but it was never the same after this match.
And that’s great thing because it went to a whole different level after this 💯
But not really because of that… I really hated wrestling at the time but had to watch it because my dad watched it. It took a couple years to shake out and the rock and stone cold eventually saved it… the shake out of Michael’s and HHH being heels was a thing but only as foils to Austin and the rock honestly. The only reason this happened is baecause they wanted to “make” michaels and HHH was really buddies with him and dating the boss’s daughter.
It was kind of dumb to the locker and they all really disliked those dudes who up to that point were gimmickry as an English butler and a good wrestler but a dude with a bunch of problems and constantly whining who just looked ridiculous against other really great wrestlers who were better and bigger like hart.
So… sure the company found their footing but not because of the screw job. They could have done it with hart in the company because he was already part of trying to make Austin and the rock would have happened anyways. There’s no reason they couldn’t have all coexisted…
It could've been prevented. As in any dispute you often bring in a third party. There was a common denominator: Undertaker. Both Shawn and Bret had feuded with him in recent months with the latter being in the Hell in the Cell weeks earlier. So basically they should've made it a triple threat match: Undertaker vs. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels. Bret probably would've agreed to drop the belt to Taker. So you bring in Taker as a third party, since neither Bret nor Shawn wanted to lay down for each other. So Bret drops the belt to Taker in a three way at Survivor Series then drops it to Shawn at the Royal Rumble and Shawn drops it to Austin at Wrestlemania like normal. I know I risk sounding like an armchair booker, but it seems like a logical choice.
I'm sure you know this now, but Taker himself since he retired has said exactly this. I get why Vince did it, but there was a way. Hell of a story.
I thought Bret says no matter what he wasn't going to drop the belt in Canada?
@@TyTimeIsAwesome Not to Shawn at least, not in Canada.
@@youngdolo8 I don't think he would've dropped it to Take either.
@@TyTimeIsAwesome Maybe... Who knows, whole situation is fucked.
Listening to jim Ross speak is entertaining to me great story teller
that's the thing about story tellers... they have be good at lying....Jim Ross knew what was gonna to happen. it's been confirmed by Vince and HBK and Triple H that Jim knew it was happening...he was even in on the planning it out.
I also just started listening to JR's podcast, and was listening to the interview with Goldberg, and must say for his podcast it's better for him not to be in the WWE because it allows him to open up way more than he would being in the WWE..but man, listening to JR's ideas, and thoughts about the direction of the business, in WWE and TNA, and just what he thinks should happen, and how things should be and what not...it's obvious that one can not always be right, but wow..listening to this man talk wrestling, it becomes very apparent that WWE is missing, and fired such a great wrestling mind for the direction it's now going.
I agree. Love Good ol' JR. The worst part is WHY they fired him. You'll hear people saying they fired JR because he was "drunk" (Which I doubt) during a promotional thing for WWE video games. Well, pretty sure Ric Flair was wasted drunk during one of those "Legends" table meetings that was televised, and they brought him back. I genuinely think they don't want JR in WWE because of how he looks and sounds. WWE is so image obsessed. He's too old and the bell's paulsy is a "turn off" to fans.
You can thank Kevin Dunn and Vince Russo for convincing Vince to take him off television because fans won’t like the way JR looks cause of his Bell’s palsy. Also Ric Flair has no business being on TV especially since 1- he was drunk and 2- he was still mourning the death of his son. When Ric buried Daniel Bryan and exposed Cena JR got the blame for not controlling the situation and ended up getting fired.
I met Earl Hebner in an airport a few years ago and asked him about this and he flat out told me that Bret deserved everything he got. He said Bret was being a baby about losing the belt and didn't want to do the right thing. He said the screw job was absolutely a real thing.
Vince was kinda burned by Medusa. That's partially why Montreal happened. That and bret not wanting to drop the title.
"I clearly felt a tap" - Shawn Michaels
Joe Garrison lol underrated comment
So underrated 😂 fucking Overeem lmfao
Lmao overroid
How did we get to Alistair Overeem in this? lol.
Bret Hart put Shawn Michaels over multiple times, but Shawn refused to do the same for Bret. That's why Bret didn't want to lose to Shawn again. If Bret was wrestling someone else at Survivor Series, he would've had no problem dropping the belt.
And Shawn faked a leg injury
Back in the early 90's HBK always jobbed to Bret Hart so learn y'all facts he always lost to Bret until Bret Hart finally put him over at Wrestlemania 12
@@dwaynefrierson991 Dwayne gets it. Bret, in their history, has beaten Shawn way more times than the other way around.
@@christianhafer9819 thank you I do get it
@@dwaynefrierson991 You're certainly welcome. You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
DAMMIT JR BRET TAPPED, YOU SAW IT!!!!
vince, we all know thats a lie.
ooo vince, you silly goose
is true about you and hbk
he was reversing the sharpshooter u stupid idiot
Vince McMahon
Jim Ross was actually head of talent relations at the time. (If you don't know the head of talent relations is the person the wrestlers can go to when they have problems with anything like pay, or booking issues.) Vince and the rest of his inner circle wanted the wrestlers to be able to trust Jim when they went to him and didn't want him to have to lie to them and break that trust because his job centered around being there for the wrestlers when they had a problem with anything.
It was actually a good match it had a real brawl feel to it till the end.
"Mick Foley went hope outta protest"
props, not many will do that
+Passmeby im a little confused on that. Did just not show up to work for Bret?
metalsquirrelgamer He sat out a week and then returned.
Home*
In an interview Jim Cornette did, Cornette said he had to call Mick Foley on the phone to convince him to come back.
Didn't Undertaker no show RAW the next night? I think Crush quit WWF in protest of the screwjob too
Man I could listen to JR talk for hours and hours on end and never get tired of it
vince screwed jim ross loads of times
2:50 not his hometown, he is from Calgary.
when u watch bret then shawn both speak about the ''screw job'' in their interviews that lead us to this youtube video...u find out that bret is the bigger man
“I was apart of the Inner Circle” touché
Grant420 so do you
6:32 that may have applied to guys that had their contract about to run out. If he had let Owen leave he'd still be alive.
One of the most important events in wrestling history. We're still talking about it 20+ years later.
Probably because it's the only genuine unscripted moment.
@@collydub1987 😂
Jim Ross is a national treasure! The GOAT!
Brett didnt hit Vince hard enough.
Gave him black eye and knocked him down . I would say that is hard enough
@@kpax45 yeah maybe your right
I hope Bret didn't hurt his hand
Buy a second camera please
JR predicts AEW’s inner circle 5 years ago, JR to join the inner circle on the next episode of Dynamite confirmed lol
So basically this was for Vince to solidify how much of a heel he really is by being an actual bad guy. Good job vince
There are several decisions in WWE that made Vince reveal his true colors as a world class jerk. This was one of them. He is a great businessman though
The only heel in this situation is Brett Hart.
He attempted to leave the WWF without relinquishing the title, effectively burying the company that made him.
@@mazzvidz Bret had still a month left in his contract with WWF hence his delayed debut in WCW, plenty of time to relinquish the title, it's not like he had to leave WWF right after Survivor Series. Shawn just wanted to fuck Bret in Canada just like he did with the Bulldog in UK in front of his dying sister.
@@mazzvidz u an idiot if you don't know what he's talking about basically vince benefited as a heel moving forward and his character actually played a part in the attitude era moving forward
@@mazzvidz Guess again Bret was willing to drop the belt except to Shawn after the shennanigans earlier that year when Shawn claimed he needed knee surgery to avoid the rematch, Bret even tried to phone Eric Bischoff to get his WCW debut held off so that Raw on the Monday night could have been an option to drop the belt.
The asshole was Vince who was shit scared that Bret might take the belt because the WWF had little to offer and losing Bret was something that Vince did not want to become public knowledge for fear of the fans who hated Shawn turning to follow Bret on WCW, and yes Shawn was not liked by a lot of fans for his in ring antics, nor in the back either for his out of control behavior.
Still one of my favorite wrestling personalities.
I imagine JR in the office under lock and key as he said, just screamin like he’s ringside - “WHAT? WHAT IS HAPPENING? WHAT A HELLACIOUS OFFICE”
"Hellacious office" 😂😂😂
I love all you people that comment Bret should have done the job to Shawn like so many others beforehand. Please do some research. Bret offered to lose the title to anyone on the roster other than Shawn (and would have lost to Shawn if Shawn lost to him first do to HBK's comment that he would never put Bret over...BTW, even Shawn doesn't deny he said that to Bret. That's about as big an insult that one wrestler can say to another.) Also, WWE no longer denies that Bret offered to lose to anyone else on the roster. Why wasn't that good enough for WWE? Couldn't they have had Bret lose to someone and then have HBK win the belt a week or two later if they really wanted the belt on him? I never understood that part. Also, Bret had creative control over his character. Yes, Bret's ego was big and that didn't help (the losing in Canada crap was a BS excuse on Bret's part. He should have just said he wouldn't lose to Shawn...period. That was the real issue), but given how much of an a-hole HBK was at that time, I can certainly see Bret's point. Also, I love all the comments about how Bret should have willingly lost because he was leaving the company. Vince terminated his contract in September and told him to talk to WCW. Vince was also 2-3 months behind in paying Bret. What the heck was Bret supposed to do? Just sit around and continue to not get paid? Any of you would have done the same thing as Bret (ie. take the offer from WCW) He literally had no choice but to sign with them. And the contract that Bret signed with Vince a year earlier was for half the salary that WCW had offered him. Hardly a guy that jumped to the highest bidder. Bret always wanted to stay with WWE but they forced him out due to his long contract and that Bret was 40 years old by 1997 and only had a few good years left in him.
Tony c - Nobody replied to you because you did your research and knew what you were talking about. But you know marks think they know everything.
Nuff said
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
10 years later first time watching , 7 in the morning and I’m genuinely enjoying this.
"The Montreal Screwjob" is the WWE equivalent of the M*A*S*H episode "Abyssinia Henry". A beloved co worker is leaving to pursue other projects, and in the case of MASH, the character was simply going home, but instead gets killed off. None of the other actors in MASH knew about it until filming the final scene. It makes for great TV and opens up other possible story lines. Colonel Potter gets introduced. "Mr. McMahon" gets introduced. People were outraged and disgusted (in both cases), and were tuning in the following night (or the following season) to see how the show was going to move on.
The last part was funny af when you can hear Jerry Lawler's voice in your head
Nearly seventeen years later, and people still talk about this. So sad that this even happened. Looking back, I can find fault in all 3 guys involved. Vince, obviously, lied to Bret about the planned finish. Shawn refused to put Bret over and that lead to Bret leaving the WWF for WCW. Bret refused to lose in his hometown country. It's sad that Bret even left the WWF. Three men with creative and wrestling savvy, haunted to this day by a moment that lasted maybe ten seconds. I hope one day that all three can put it firmly behind them and never talk about it again.
The worst part is that Bret leaving was a huge waste of time, because he ended up being a mid-carder in WCW.
Bret didn't leave because Shawn refused to do the job..Bret was basically forced over to WCW because Vince couldn't afford to honor his contract. He didn't want to go.
Bret was already leaving for WCW. It's customary for the guy leaving to lay down for the next guy in line at the company being left. Bret refused to lay down for Shawn because it was in his COUNTRY. Not hometown, not province, not region, nothing. A guy from California can't claim Boston as his home crowd. Bret was in the wrong and being arrogant and unprofessional, therefore he got what was coming to him. Very few people strong arm Vince McMahon and get away with it. Luckily for Bret, it's given him something to talk about for the last 17 years. Bret's biggest problem in wrestling wasn't the Montreal Screwjob, it's that he never grasped the concept that wrestling is a work.
bret left for wcw for more money, not because shawn didnt want to put him over lol. He had decided he was leaving months before this match, everyone knew he was leaving, but bret didnt want to pass the title to shawn because their relationship was bad. Bret was refusing to put shawn over and vince had to do what he had to do, even though he shouldnt have lied to bret, but the main fault falls on bret.
*****
^All true, except you're forgetting to mention one crucial thing here: Shawn was scheduled to drop the belt back to Bret in a rematch at WM 13, but opted out by faking a knee injury. Which is the MAIN reason why Bret wouldn't job to him. I don't think it was so much about being in Canada, rather more to do with not putting Shawn over, who refused to put him over earlier in the year, and as we all know, was generally a pain in the ass to work with at the time.
It drives me nuts when people say this took place in Bret's "hometown". Bret is from Calgary, as am I. Montreal is 2188 miles away from Calgary.
Does anyone else think that this "should" of been a work. It would of been a great angle. Nothing changes, Bret leaves for WCW, Vince becomes Mr McMahon, Shawn becomes champion and Bret technically in storyline purposes hasnt been beaten for the title so doesnt lose any credibility.
As a Canadian, there’s nothing more annoying than when someone says, “Montreal, Bret’s hometown.”
Bret is from Calgary, almost 2000 miles from Montreal. About the same as New York to Denver.
Canada is Bret's hometown
Every time I hear JR speak childhood memories coming back he was the best commentator with the king
I see a lot of people saying Vince did the right thing, but the reality is it should never have gotten this far in the first place. For starters, how silly was it for Vince to orchestrate Bret leaving for WCW and then keep the belt on him? He had all the information and did nothing with it.
Vince is the one guy who i feel absolutely is in the wrong here. Fact is Vince knew these two guys hated each other and he also was the guy who was push for Bret to leave. So to your point Vince keeping the title on Bret when he was leaving much less knowing Bret had creative control once he handed in his notice was him being an idiot. Second Vince had a very easy out dont have the match be Shawn and Bret have it be Taker vs Bret (fans wont boo Taker as badly if at all) then the next night after Bret has left have Shawn challange for the belt, Kane interferes boom title is on Shawn. This was Vince trying to start shit and it blew up in his face but having the ego he does Vince couldnt admit he was wrong so he fucked Bret
Vince didn't think that Bret would be such an overwhelming crybaby and not agree to lose a simple match for the company that made him and treated him well. Vince underestimated how selfish and petty Bret Hart was.
Daniel Moore From a business standpoint I can understand but professionally it's fucked up. It's even worse cause Vince literally lied to Bret's face before the match and told him he was gonna keep the belt. Sure they treated him well but having him leave like that is still super fucked up.
Bret was treating Vince like crap. Bret was treating the entire WWF roster at the time like crap. Earl Hebner said he did what he did because Bret was also screwing him over because he was also part of the WWF roster. Bret was selfish and should have merely did was he was asked(lose a freaking match). Vince isn't going to risk his company going freaking bankrupt on Bret Hart's little pissy bullshit. The only thing I disagree with Vince on was him trying to explain things to Bret afterwards, I would have doublecrossed his sorry ass and gotten the hell outta there with the belt. Good luck going down south with the dinosaurs Bret you sorry selfish sack of pathetic shit.
You obviously dont know anything about what your talking about Daniel, Bret had Creative Control for the last 30 days of his contract he had every right to turn down droping the world title to HBK and Vince knew this. You wanna talk about a guy treating the roster like shit lets look at HBK who spent the last 3 years booking himself to win every title and only losing them through vacating them while people like Bigelow, Bulldog, Ahmed, and Vader have their pushes killed by HBK politicing. Unprofessional, Lets talk about HBK faking an injury to get out of losing to Bret at WM, or outright quitting the company in mid 97 to get more money and kill Brets heel run, or literally showing up at tapings drunk, high, or both. Lets Talk about HBK saying "I will never put you over" when Bret was trying to make peace with the whinny little fuckhead. When you tell the world champion that you will never lose to them and go out of your way to fuck him and his family over Id say Bret had every right to say "nope i wont lose to this guy". Bret even said he was willing to lose to Shawn till Shawn did that little stunt. So no you wanna blame someone blame Vince for constantly fucking Bret a guy who had been with the company for 11 years, worked every date he was asked including a day after his brother died, all to appease this selfish pre madonna who admits he wishes he had gone to WCW to be with his real friends
Jim Ross and Jerry king best commentary team of all time
Vince is the one u hear screaming "ring the bell"
As a WWE Fan Since 2007 I Heard The Montreal ScrewJob Was Crazy Big Time Changed WWE Forever!
Started the attitude era
What really kills me about Montreal Screw Job is that it happened in Bret Hart’s home town.
It wasn't his hometown. Bret is from Calgary.
Not even close buddy. Over 2000 miles between montreal and Calgary.
Montreal Screw Job will always be remembered but at the same time its time for both Bret and Vince and the W.W.E to move on but on this date in time in history this could have been handled a lot better.I understand were Vince was coming from Bret contract is up with W.W.E and WCW is calling for Bret to jump over with them and Bret was not selling out any longer with the W.W.E fans but I think it would have been better if Vince agreed with Bret Hart to drop the belt to Stone Cold Steve Austin {Steve Williams} but How Shawn Michaels attitude was like back then I agree with Bret Hart Shawn was not ready to take the belt because he was lacking the respect to the other wrestler who was champion and would not respect them and this dose call for Concern.
It's very interesting to see his point of view
Jesse Howard fascinating
I heard Lawler was in the bathroom taking a dump.
I read that the second Jr said I didn't know were King was
However when Bret Hart returned to the WWE. The first thing they did was have Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart hug it out in the ring. I think that put the nail in the coffin for this whole issue. I think people can let it go now. I also think that's why Shawn started to want to retire. I think he needed that closure for what he did and be forgiven by Bret. HBK is a christian and wanted to make things right for himself. So I think part of him wanted to bury the hatchet with Bret.
If you think Bret forgives him you're naive. Dude still sounds bitter in interviews to this day, and his book doesn't have kind words for them either.
dude if bret and shawn were young again they would beat the shit out of each other first sight, of course they needed to hug it out cause there old and nothing else can be done about it. plus wrestling is dead now anyway it had its run..
Iceozo1
theres a youtube documentary bret did after the 2010 raw and he still sounds bitter about it.
It doesn't matter how Bret handles it. Shawn went out and sought forgiveness. They were able to let it go as far as he is concern. You know it's been stated before. That they were at one time friends. If Shawn is truly a christian and is a changed man. Then I can understand him wanting closer from this. Bret and how he handles it is up to him.
Jonathan Petrosky Considerig how Shawn was still a prima donna when he was born again I wouldn't forgive him.
Jr is awesome!
I stopped watching shortly after this...
I remember saying people stopped watching because they found out it was 100 percent fake at that point, it opened the eyes...
Looking back... Nah, it closed them back up with a great story. Everyone including me bought it. 👍
Did Lawler boycott RAW too? Cuz he didn't do commentary the next two RAW's. Cornette did.
JayTheAdviceGuy the short answer is no. Jerry only did commentary on the second hour of Raw back then.
Only did the second hour.
"AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, HE'S BROKEN IN HALF!!!"
I do remember that Shawn barely had Bret in the Sharpshooter, really didn't have it cinched in when Earl Hebner motioned for the bell to ring. Additionally Shawn appeared confused as well; of course, whoever they sided with, this was still their bread and butter. I remember speaking with Bret shortly after he joined WCW; he'd been with WWF for 14 years and only once or twice he'd asked for time off. I told him,"I think a decent employer would've treated you way more fairly; certainly they'd appreciate you for your loyalty." He'd appreciated that I told him that.
earl and vince were in on it - so was shawn but he faked that he wasn't - one or two others definitely were too but the exact truth about others will never be known.
@@mrgobrien I think Bret in his book wrote that Taker said that Shawn admitted that he was in on it to Taker not long after the incident and he told Bret that
I don't think anyone could've predicted the magnitude of what would come from the result of that match tonight. That was the night wrestling kayfabe essentially died, the "Mr. McMahon" character and the Attitude Era were both born out of it, and propelled the WWF/E to success that would allow them to ultimately beat out and eventually buy out WCW.
probably one of the most believable people on the subject, most others tend to be so full of shit, or they're real careful about what they say.
I can still hear JR's voice introducing raw while the theme song was playing and Pyro going off!! Man the memories 😪
The only people who knew were ones to gain from it. Vince, Shane, HBK, Earl, (but he had to know being the ref) and a few office people that aren't seen. J.R. has no reason to lie about this happening.
And Triple H
The shoot interviews are better than the wrestling itself.
I call complete bullshit on Vince saying anyone that wants to leave can. If that was the case, Owen would still be with us!!!
Scot Hall claimed they all knew including Brett.
Jr and Bobby Heenan best commentators ever
Lawler did you know. Come tell me. Lol 😂😂😂
I'm going with wat scott hall has said about this... it was a work listen to him talk about it in the show darkside of the ring on viceland channel and he makes so many points about it that now I'm convinced it was a work
There used to be 30 minute long videos of JR being hilarious and great on commentary when he was with the WWE but they are all gone and have been for years. I miss them so much, because his commentary with Lawler is missed. About the best thing you can do now is go listen to the Smackdown Vs Raw games audio files video on TH-cam that’s got every bit of commentary they did for those games out together. You got your whipped like a government mule, slobber knockers, scalded dog, tougher than a two dollar steak, etc. So great.
Vince was in the Kliq. JR may have been in the inner circle but he was not in the core circle.
bret OWNED that entire match and the melee before the bell rang, vince probably told hebner to ring the bell.
When I watched Wrestling With Shadows, there was no one that was more upset than Bret's wife.
If JR ever told me that elephants could fly I'd believe him. Jim never said anything that ever led me to believe he was lying about not being in on the screwjob. Probably the most genuine man throughout the entire wrestling business. If he says he didn't know about it, then I firmly believe he didn't know.
Always love when an interviewer over talks and interrupts the guest 🙄
biggest work ever , Will never come out but everyone was in on this
This is the first I'm hearing that Vince got knocked out by Bret afterwards.
I'd like to learn more about that.
Yeah Bret knocked Vince out, with Rick Rude by his side.
Watch the vice documentary it gives you a look of kinda what it looked like
I’ve heard a few story’s and most say Brett had a bunch of people blocking him but he somehow got through with an overhand right that connected on vince 😂👍🥊
I've always thought the MSJ was either the worst display of the back-stabbing face of the business or the most well-thought-out GENIUS story line in the history of the biz.
This entire thing is so dumb. The ONLY reason this was a big deal was because Bret Hart was a entitled cry baby that always wanted to get his way. His nickname shouldn't have been "Hitman". His name should have been, Bret "The Victim" Hart.
The interviewer really needs to just shut up and let the host talk
I'm a Hitman fan, but he should've just done the job. He was leaving! If he really wanted to be loyal to WWF, he should've stayed, sucked it up, and taken a pay cut like the rest of the boys.
Why should he agree to be buried on the way out? It's his career, he has a right to try to make the best of his career. Also, how do you know "the rest of the boys" got a pay cut? Every single guy in the locker room had a pay cut? You are aware he had a guarantee of certain monies in his contract. As I said before, if your manager at McDonald's called you in and told you to take a pay cut, even though he had no intentions of doing the same himself, would you just say, "I agree, I deserve to have my pay cut!" and go back to serving fries? It's such a stupid notion to think that "hey, he should just get paid less!" when I promise that NO ONE that says that would agree to be paid less in their job.
***** He was leaving. You're supposed to put somebody on your way out even if you don't like them. That's how a professional is supposed to do it.
McMahon couldn't afford Hart's contract. Had Hart stuck around for the boom that was to come, he could've gotten the pay raise he wanted.
No you are not "supposed to put somebody on your way out". That's a McMahon fantasy that he created in an attempt to draw sympathy after getting all 24 hours of his clock cleaned by Hart. If you look back over the history of wrestling (I know, you only know WWF from the "Attitude Era" because you're too young to have seen anything else), but there have been plenty of times when guys were kept strong on the way out. There's NO reason AT ALL for Bret to agree to take a high profile loss, even when he's leaving, for many reasons.
First, WCW had huge plans for him in the Canadian market, a new market for the company, since they never tried doing anything in the country before, and aforementioned high profile loss was the WWF's way of sticking it to both Bret and WCW, when Hart was leaving.
Next, poor McMahon. Yes, he was in the poor house. He told Bret that he was applying for food stamps. He "couldn't afford Hart's contract". BULL. McMahon just didn't WANT to pay Bret. I say again, I know if your manager at McDonald's called you and told you that even though you had a CONTRACT agreeing to certain monies, he changed his mind, and decided not to pay you. So, you, being the great guy you are, went right back to serving those fries and Big Macs. Too bad McMahon signed a CONTRACT with Hart. If he had buyer's remorse, then too bad so sad. There's no reason for Hart to agree to take a pay cut. You'll know these things when you have a CAREER and not a JOB. Of course, when you finally get to man the counter at McDonald's full time, you will readily take all pay cuts offered to you. You'll be the guy who works there for 25 years and never gets a raise. What a generous guy you are. However, in the real world (as in, not yours), these types of things do not happen.
Third, Bret's contract SPECIFICALLY called for "reasonable creative control", which Hart admitted he put in so McMahon couldn't bury him on the way out. It's quite reasonable to say, "I don't want to be buried in the market where my new employer is planning big things with me". Not just that, but it's also quite reasonable to not want to lose all his "heat" for the Hitman character. After portraying a pro-Canada, anti-USA heel, to have a high profile loss in Canada is definitely damaging. Again, these are things you'll understand if you leave McDonald's (and I'm not just talking about leaving there to work for Taco Bell) and have an actual CAREER somewhere.
He, like any other person in their chosen career, should NOT have to "suck it up and take a pay cut". He's not like you, where you are routinely lied to and asked to get your pay cut, and you agree all the time, because anyone can do your job. How hard can it be to bag fries?
Anything else I can disprove for you?
*****
1.) Wrong. Backlund, Graham, and Hogan lost on their way out. That's what this business is supposed to be about!
2.) Bret did not own the WWF. You do what the boss tells you. You don't like it? Tough shit.
3.) Shawn was hot at the time. Getting more heat from beating Hart was the goal to build up Austin.
4.) Of course, he didn't want to pay Bret because they struck the deal with Tyson. McMahon made the right business decision.
5.) Forfeiting the title and giving a goodbye speech on your way out to please your ego is a slap in the face to the business, but go ahead and spin it any way you want.
totally agree ,huge bret fan , seen him many times live for stampede wrestling , but you drop the belt when leaving , and do what your boss says
Jim Ross during winter: STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD!!!!!!!!!
Imagine life today if that never happened I'm so glad it did!
JR said he's part of the Inner Circle! Longest-running AEW storyline so far!
I don't understand why they didn't just leave the belt on the undertaker back at summer slam '97 instead of having him drop the title to Bret leading into the screw job 3 months later ...
matt Rich That's an easy one, Vince tried to convince Hart to stay, and gave him the championship and a huge money deal, but then realized that he could not afford it, so he asked Bret to accept wcw's offer. Bret said yes, McMahon asked him to lose the title in montreal and well, you know the rest.
JR is so popular and loved by the wrestling community he is now the voice in AEW along side old colleague Tony shivoni
I'm not a wrestling fan anymore but I'll always still have my favorites and I'll always love Jim Ross
Mauro is carrying the the JR torch now.
The whole thing seems like something Vince McMahon would do without telling anyone.
I agree.
I remember Jim Ross from the Mid-South days. He sure could call a match.
Vince should've known that Bret is too honourable to pull an Alundra Blayze with the European Title, let alone the big one. To do this day, I'm convinced that the Screwjob was mostly about Eric Bishcoff than Bret himself.
Brett wouldn't show up on WCW with the belt, but Eric Bishcoff probably would sat that the WWF champion was leaving and coming WCW.
Dexenation Gracey Honorable? Hahahahahaha
Mastermind Yes, honorable. Guy spent his entire Hall Of Fame speech talking about his peers.
Jim Cornette put it best: Bret trusted Vince, & Vince trusted Bret -- But Vince didn't trust Bischoff, & that was the deciding factor.
They were all in on it IT WAS A WORK !!!!
Work or not it was still shocking
There are a handful of things a person can say that tell you they're not worth listening to. Some are obvious -'Creationism is true!' etc.
Another is 'Montreal was a work, Bret was in on it!'
Jim Ross is full of it he’s always kept his head down and just did his job only ever talks about things afterwards to avoid any heat and even then man stays neutral
Heenan was my all time favorite commentary personality but JR was second. Unlike most ppl though, I actually prefer JR's commentary in WCW and Mid South before that to his WWE commentary. He called it more like a sports announcer whereas, In WWE, he was more animated.
I think Montreal was a work more and more.
If it were a work why then did Mick Foley and Mark Calaway get so upset over it?
tsstevensts
Because they probably weren't in on it. You work the boys, you work the crowd broski. Just like Francine said in the "Forever Hardcore" documentary. And it's the truth. Everyone made out: Vince, Bret, Shawn......everyone. Nobody lost. If it wasn't a work, it worked out perfectly regardless.
Matty Squizzato
If you hadn't heard Mark Calaway, The Undertaker, there's a story where after the screwjob he hunted Vince down while he hid in his office, pounded on the door and said, "If you don't open up this door and get your ass out here I'm gonna knock it down and kick it." Vince did answer, and was told, "If you still want to have a company tomorrow you better apologize to Brett," and, "I'm quitting if you don't." The WWF had used such backstage issues as a work before, they used the screwjob in storyline, one would think this would have been shown or brought up were it a work. But it never was. In shoots on McMahon Taker had done whether it be the one he did in 1998, when he turned heel and formed the Ministry or at the end of his Biker run in 2003 I think the screwjob was brought up once, but nothing about how he threatened Vince. Taker would have looked like the biggest babyface on the planet had it, he could have been in the same role Austin was, had the screwjob been a work and they had the Austin McMahon feud and added the Taker McMahon feud based on this very real incident, WCW would not have had the fingerpoke of doom, they would not have had David Arquette or Vince Russo as world champion, WCW would have folded before then. If McMahon did not work it into a feud or storyline then that would suggest that the screwjob in general was real and the way he was threatened in particular was a little too real.
tsstevensts Look, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you, but it sure seems to me, like you know a lot of what would have, and what wouldn't have happened. You mind telling me what this week's LottoMax numbers are going to be?
Matty Squizzato
I'm simply going by the evidence. Brett Hart, Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels, Jean Paul Levesque and Earl Hebner all said it was a screwjob, I think they testified under oath that it was and being born again if Shawn copped to lying about it as he said in his book it would stand to reason that he would also admit that it was a work. Brett's wife, Dave Meltzer, Jim Cornette, Mick Foley and Mark Callaway thought it was a shoot. I believe that you are certain it was a work for ratings, but sadly we can no longer ask the likes of Stu, Davey Boy or Owen who also saw it as a screwjob.
To put it another way let's take the conspiracy of Elvis faking his death to work for the FBI, he was behind the September 11 attacks and he was chosen because he was one of the Roswell aliens. There's very little to prove any one of these theories, let alone tie all four into one neat package, and a lot working against the idea this is possible. Why would he agree to the attacks? Where is the videos of Bin Laden claiming him claiming responsibility were forged?
To this day I still don't know how the fans didn't riot in Montreal. Probably very fortunate they didn't though...