OOF. Nothing more frustrating than getting to the finish line to be stuck by one last obstacle (been there a few times myself). Dont let the stuck tracks win. Take a breather, reassess and relax. Your build is incredible and I am confident you guys will overcome this!
20 yr cat tech here. just put them on the machine and drive it! soaking them in water is probably the WORST thing you could do. they are DRY pins. they are meant to stay DRY. rust builds up between the pin and the bushing, that is what causes them to seize. you have to get them on the machine and drive it around to break the rust loose. they will squeak and squall until they are all cleaned out. if its to loud, pour used motor oil on the chains, that will help them free up. once they are free, they will be just like new
Excellent advice and thank you! We will be doing this in a future video. It will be on a different machine because the engine in this one is not properly broke in yet.
Yes, I concur with Bobcat. People are quick to recycle used engine oil and they miss the second and third purpose uses. Remember that you can heat oil to just short of boiling and it will almost penetrate cast iron.
I had a few stuck track pins on a drill rig that sat for three months. What i did was spray the pins with 50/50 diesel and ATF, then tightened the tracks more than I usually would and left it that way for about three weeks while tramming around and working as I normally do. After the three weeks, I loosened the tracks to normal tension and the stuck pins were free.
HERE IS YOUR ANSWER!! Electrolysis. Roll the tracks back up. Place a couple car tires in the water tub you used and place the track on top of the tires. Put the other track in the tub the same way. It is OK if the tracks touch each other. For the size of your tub, put in 3 to 5 pounds of baking soda and mix thoroughly. Make sure the tracks are covered in water. Get you heavy duty battery charger and connect the negative lead to both tracks. Make good connection with jumper cables or the like to each track. Get a clean piece of steel and connect to the positive lead of the battery charger and submerge in the water away from the tracks. Turn the battery charger to 12 volts and turn to high amps. Keep all livestock from the tub area. In a couple days your tracks will be freed up to install. ENJOY!!
Great video. Your experiment on soaking the track chains is outstanding!!! Good information for folks with the same dilemma. I am learning much from your channel. I bet your son is gazing at you from above with a big smile on his face.
His experiment was the worst thing he could do and defied common sense. Water causes rusting. A quick google search would have told him what to do and saved him 3 days and more damage to his tracks.
@excitedbox5705 I can definitively say it didn't do any more damage to the tracks then was already done. If they run in snow water mud it's the same thing basically. As stated in previous videos this was a Myth Busters type experiment.
Great video. In the opening, I noticed the crank starting of the 22. I grew up with a 15, we'd get it to the compression stroke and them LIFT the crank; with that machine, cranking up and over top dead center was a formula to bonk yourself in the head with the crank. Love what you do.
You guys got this! Love watching you and dad spending time on projects. I lost my dad in ‘19 and would give my right arm to have him in my shop for a few days. Keep pushing! Good things will happen! Peace brother!
Squatch253 rebuilt his tracks. He made tools to get the pins out. BUT, when he was done, they worked very well. The following episode is where he started. th-cam.com/video/wdVVLbcPZvc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qlkL3s2M_5cENU6S
Hi guys certified caterpillar plant technician here! You guys are doing really well, I've restored a couple of vintage cat machines myself, and they're always a challenge. I've mostly worked on the new stuff i.e machines made in the last 10 to 20 years but one thing I always struggle with is tracks. There is a reason why big caterpillar dealers have their own track maintenance departments is because it is one of the most frustrating things that I normal plant technician can deal with. Also modern tracks are more complicated because theyre expected to have a longer life and also have to turn a lot freer. These old tracks are very simple and thus have more friction and more problems in my opinion. I've not ever done field service I've only ever repaired machines coming to be repaired and thus I've have done things mostly by the book with all the proper CAT tooling equipment. In my professional opinion soaking the tracks in water is actually worse because it is liable for water to get into the tracks links and pins and cause corrosion making your life harder in the long run I've also never heard of anyone's soaking tracks in water in the UK and expecting them to perform better.
Thank you very much for the comment. After a lot of frustrating work this was definitely a "Hail Mary" approach. We are fortunate enough to live in a very dry climate and so far I haven't seen any negative repercussions. I definitely wouldn't do it again. 😊 I have some future videos coming out where I think we find a better solution. It was also partly on the advice of another caterpillar mechanic. I've been wondering if running tracks in snow would have a similar effect? It was not anything I encountered during my work in Antarctica. However I'm guessing the cold shrinks pins and bushings so it's less of an issue. Thanks again, cheers.
when we found our Clark CA-1 Airborne Dozer we soaked the entire dozer in a tank of avaporust, took a few weeks to clean and prep for undercoat, but it went back together easily and we ad no issue with the tracks, well owerth the expense of the evaporust... also reusable after filtering...
Don't soak or beat on them, just wrap them and run it a little they will free right up. I'm 75 years old and have been messing with heavy equipment most of my life.
If the tracks are moving that much. Take a cable and wrap it around the rear sprocket pull the tracks over the sprocket and just run them. It will free up after a bit of turning over the idler and the sprocket. We used to get tracks that been sitting in the yard for a while on pallets and would just uncurl them with a front end loader and put them on the machine.
I have seen a nameless person build a bonfire around a set of stiff tracks. 🔥 They got cherry red, and they were easier to work with after. But that's the last thing to do to your Komatsu yellow paint job. Me and Pop enjoy your videos on this side of the pond 🇬🇧 Thanks. "When your going through hell, keep on going" 👍🏻
FYI, if you ever use naval jelly there are two types: one type changes the rust into primer, and the other type eats the rust away. Also, if you have a local powder coating shop, maybe you could put it in their powder coating oven overnight? Rust can’t expand or shrink with heat, that’s why heat then cooling works.
After drinking out of that tank for a few weeks, the cattle are now identifying as bulldozers. They’re out in the field pushing dirt around with their noses!
Hay their guys What a journey you both have travelled, truly commendable on a lot of fronts. I guess I would have been deflated as well, luckily you had options, and I think you took the right one. Episode 128 well be a huge relief to you both, to hear Festas roar and sort out the rest of the track issues. Hopefully they loosen up. See you both on the next one. Aussie Peter ✌
I still can't quite figure out the logic of putting a rust seized track into rust inducing water to free it up. Soaking in evaporust I can see. But not water.
To be honest, I completely agree. This was just something that so many old cat mechanics and Old Timers wanted us to try. They swore that it worked. When you think about it, these tracks often operate in water anyways. It was an experiment. They do say water is the universal solvent. 👍
Just an idea. Take the grousers off. Slid the chain in some pipe plug the ends of the pipe and fill 1/2 and 1/2 with ATF and diesel. If you vent the pipe you can even build a fire under it so the track chain is in hot oil.
If you have another crawler tractor, pull the chains out on the gravel. Back the other tractor up on the chains and fasten the end to the tractors track, drive forward and back so the rusty chain raps around the tractor track, it will loosen. Then soak the first pins on each end with diesel to free up, Install and drive. This worked great on new TD 20 tracks that had been on a pallet for years. Good luck
Nothing you can't over come. You guys have had plenty of obstacles during this build. You'll get there. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with.
Just drive it, and a little lubricant doesn't hurt either. I always prefer diesel or atf. You want a thin oil that doesn't evaporate quickly. Good luck, guys. And thanks for saving the dozer from scrap.
No substitute for horse power! New pins and bushes will often be stiff and appear lumpy when put together first time but 40 hp should rotate the track and the recoil spring is there to absorb the load on the idler 'til the pins free up. Looking good.
Get a gallon of KROIL, I use it on parts that have been in water for 30 years and aircraft, it guarantees penetration in 1 millionth of clearance. Put in a squirt can and put it on the joints.
Acetone mixed with trans fluid. soak the pins, have a beer, then just fit the tracks and run it around until the creaking stops. paint should be the last part of any project.
A buddy told me use, laundry softener to take out rust from inside of engine and radiator. I can't remember what brand, but I think he said Calgone or Downey. Mix a cup to five gallons of water and run engine for about 50 miles. Pull off bottom radiator hose to drain. Repeat several times. Maybe if you soak the tracks in water again, you can add some softener and put some kind of an agitator to keep water circulating. Just a suggestion.
Have you considered putting glycerin in the water when you soak the tracks? It’ll provide some level of lubricant to your soak and it won’t poison the trough. I was skeptical of the water soak. I could see it might work if your bind was dirt related. But if it’s rust related, straight water is only going to compound the jacking/binding.
@ hickey bar or crow bar, best way to handle tracks, you can mostly keep your hand off them, good luck…I retired equipment mechanizing with all my fingers…
I would have put diesel into a spray bottle and sprayed all the links and left it over night, then put the tracks on and ran it around a bit, the tracks will loosen up quick enough, most of the stiffness is the paint.
Hello Did you ever consider soaking the tracks in Evaporust ? Squatch253 made a chainrepair on one of his Cat-D2's. This was most interresting to watch, and maybe useful for You too. He built tools himself to remove / insert the bolts.
I think we found a solution. We've got a couple videos coming out next month that show it in better detail. I will definitely keep the evapo-rust in mind for the future. 👍
I'd never put them in water. It causes them to rust and letting them dry before trying to unroll them causes flash rusting which makes it even worse. I'd use a large air hammer or jackhammer on the joints. The vibration would loosen the rust and get the pins moving. Mount them and drive the heck out of it.
Know a guy who restores crawlers. Has done it for many years. He had a d4 that someone put new tracks on , then it sat for years. When he got it the tracks were totally siezed. He tried soaking them with oil and different stuff. Didnt work. They were so stuck the machine couldn't move itself. With the d4 running and another machine pulling he got it into a creek. Kept going up and down stream and it could move on its own. After many trips up and down stream it was good as new.
There is part of me that still thinks the water would work. The rust proves that it can get in there. So if it got in there once, I'm guessing it would do it again. I've heard so many stories just like yours. Even my grandfather said that they used water on stuck tracks in Alaska. These stotys were the reason we thought we would give it a try. Either way, I'm thinking we will end up where we should have started. That is building a track pin press. Perhaps we didn't soak them long enough? 👍
Have you ever thought about a warm oil/ diesel mix bath, not sure what you’d use for a container but seems like to me you need to get water into those links
We did consider similar options but the cost was very prohibitive. Soaking them in PB Blaster for months didn't seem to have much impact. They were also coated in used oil after we got the machine. We'll see how they move but I'm thinking a track pin press might be our only option. 👍
Don’t go backwards put the track’s on leave the tractor off the ground run one track at a time take put a gal of Diesel in a pump sprayer and run it add keep spraying it will penetrate those pins and loosen everything thing up. And a Bonus the Diesel will clean the floor nicely. 🤘🏼🤘🏼🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
40 years with the Cat dealer, mostly field service: Just fit the tracks and run the machine. New sets of tracks can sit around outside for a year or more before being fitted. Likewise, tight links from an over enthusiastic press operator during a pin and bush turn, both will give you a headache when it comes to installing them. The machine is stronger than you are!
I'm over a month ahead on videos at the moment. You will see us struggle building a track press. By mid-november we are going to heed your advice! Dad and I discussed doing this just a few hours ago! Your comment just solidified the deal! 👍
Maybe a large pot of boiling machine oil would open that track up. I still think a bed of hot coals over night would do it. But, I just like black smithin.
I'd try a long vinegar soak, maybe not for this project as paint doesn't like it but future content. And I'm sure that first sounds like "holy shit, that's a lot of vinegar. It could damage the concrete" both true, but hear me out. Now I've never attempted on such a large scale, but to mitigate vinegar use on larger or odd shaped objects I place them in a much larger bag, and the bag in a bucket/barrel/tub of water as to keep the solution in the bag in contact with the part. Uses much less and keeps it where I want it. In your case, you'd need large enough square of painters plastic to imagine a bundt cake form around each track, separating the water 'cake pan' from vinegar track 'cake'. Start with high 150-300 grain vinegar so you can dilute, and some sodium bicarbonate to neutralize later on.
A while back I posed a question on a forum about an immobile tractor with frozen tracks. Someone suggested running the tractor into a shallow stream to loosen them. I guess he missed the "immobile" part. If a tractor can move, it was suggested to just to run the heck out of it and the tracks will loosen up over time but old photos of this same tractor show the track lifting 8-10 inches off of the top roller. If I bought the tractor, I'd be tempted to hose it down with a couple of cans of PB penetrant/Kroil and let it sit for awhile. Just my 2-cents.
@@lifeafterourloss It's not a joke. buy some and try it dollar store brand is fine pick the worst spot in one of the tracks lay it on its side soke 3 or 4 pins let them soak overnight. I had a 3 point turn buckle that was so rusty I told myself don't waste your time throw in the scrap pile. I did not listen and made a trough out of a trash bag the next day it was free. The trick is do it before trying any lubricant you want dry virgin rust it will soak up toilet bowl cleaner and will melt the rust.
Have you tried heating up transmission fluid, or old oil and soaking the bad links in it with a large tray that will allow a section of the track at a time to soak in the hot fluid. That may loosen them up.
I think in the end you may take the pins apart. As much as I would like to say there are alternative ways. The sure way is to take it apart and be done with it for life.
@@lifeafterourloss Errrr, sandblasted ? Have you ever had good results by sand-blasting assembled parts? In my experience sandblasting only helps with components, never assemblies.
I wonder if there is a way to either use vacuum above the oil pump in a galley while spinning the engine to get the oil pump to pick up and prime. Or pour oil into a passage the oil pump to prime it so it has the ability to suck oil up on its own. Are there plugs that can be removed at the oil cooler connection. Or i missed the big oil filter housing install if the filter housing could be separated and a shop vacuum used to suck while the engine is cranked. Dry starts do to a loss of prime on the oil pump will really kill crank bearings. Future builds. Stay lube moly graphite assembly lube on bearings and to pack the pump gears does not drip out. It does slightly darken the oil on the first run. Preparing for the next build. Test several graphite sprays on the non polished crank and timing sprockets. To see about rust blocking. I would also pull the engine side cover and drop in the bottom of that cast iron oil pan at least one neodymium magnet to gather any rust that comes off in the oil before it goes thru the pump. If you use neodymium magnets with a hole in the middle. Twist a loop of copper wire so you can easily retrieve them with a hook and it exposes more surface to gather rust. I blew out a clogged fuel filter into a plastic bowl. Sediment. I had a magnet there and i dropped it in the dirt gas. A curious clean area around the magnet. I pushed the magnet along with my finger. A clean area of the bowl appeared. I have been putting magnets at my own cost into customers fuel tanks for over 20 years now. On plastic tanks. I put one inside. Then capture it with one on the outside. Gorilla duct tape over the outside one.
That is a good idea. We definitely slathered everything with pre assembly lube. Although it does not show in the video, hand cranking was actually picking up oil in the pump. In the past I have always packed oil pumps with vasoline. I should really consider the magnets, great suggestion!
You want to soak it in vitamin C + water and hook a battery up to the track and an iron rod. That reduces the rust back to iron. Days and they will have no more rust. Why would water on it's own remove rust when that is what speeds up oxidation?
It's not one and done - it takes a couple of goes sometimes and not on all links either. Just need patience but it does work soaking in water. There are other methods but this is the easiest/cheapest/least toxic if you're not in a hurry
We got many recommendations to soak the stuck track chains in water. Water is known as the "universal solvent" by many. Signs of rust in the water were a good sign that the water penetrated the pins. At least that's the idea. I don't think it works on track chains stuck this long. 👍
Sorry, I misread your comment. We used a silicone. They are IH TD9 seals that we made adapters for. The "cork" was already installed on the seal. Episode #48 & #52 show it in better detail. 👍
We thought so too. We tried the PB Blaster, heat and many other methods. Water was recommended by many old Caterpillar mechanics. Basically we had nothing left to lose at that point. 👍
@@lifeafterourloss I get it! Sometimes the most ridiculous stuff works out. =))) Enjoying the videos regardless! Best wishes and can't wait to see it in action!
next time you have to free up some tracks, let me recommend upgrading the "soak" bath by using a pump to circulate your water (preferably rinsing away any grime coming from the pins). I would also consider adding something to agitate/vibrate/move the tracks regularly. i think this would help to work out any grime during the soak, allowing more grime to soften. i grew up in agriculture and the farmers around me all soaked/treated their chains in diesel throughout the off-season. tracks (especially those) would take a lot to fully submerge, but you could essentially vacuum bag the tracks and fill that with a few gallons of diesel/cleaner.
It was just an experiment. So many old school cat skinners recommended the technique. I suppose it's no different than running them in snow, mud or rain. Our climate is so dry here I wasn't really worried. At least we busted that myth, 😁.
Because the engine is not properly broke in yet. We don't want to stop midstream to deal with track issues. It's going to need a consistent pull to break it in properly. 👍
I'm super confused why you would soak something rusty in water.... Surely that's just going to make it rust more?!? Seems like a terrible idea unless I'm missing something.
I know what happened, you used the wrong brand of water. You should have used Great Value Spring Water instead of the Drinking Water. The PH is .0000001% off. "There's Your Problem." Yes, I'M Kidding, before some Hydrologist comes and corrects MY PH values vs Alkalinity. ;-)
@@lifeafterourloss I had a feeling after all your blood sweat and tears cleaning, prepping, and painting those pads & rails, and then dunking them in water, you would be one of the few that would get it. Thanks again, and good luck with your beautiful restoration.
It just baffles me why you would soak metal in a water media. That literally defies logic as to trying to get something metal to move. Common sense would suggest oil/lubrication and physical manipulation would be more productive.
We did try used oil, PB Blaster, Heat, I even threw them around with a backhoe. A lot of old caterpillar mechanics recommended this. We figured there was nothing to lose. It might work on tracks that weren't sitting as long as these were. But in our case it didn't change anything. Next Step is to just run it. If that doesn't work, we will build a track pin press. 👍
Hi, you have a great channel. I have just found you after swatches shoutout. Since you have a trough big enough to soak these in, I wonder if electrolysis would remove enough of the rust on the pins. How to use electrolysis to remove rust th-cam.com/video/OkdJlM0bI2U/w-d-xo.html It won’t do much for your paint though. Thanks for the video.
We soaked them in penetrating oil for about 2 months after they were sandblasted. We couldn't see any difference. Perhaps the ATF mixture would have worked better. 👍
OOF. Nothing more frustrating than getting to the finish line to be stuck by one last obstacle (been there a few times myself). Dont let the stuck tracks win. Take a breather, reassess and relax. Your build is incredible and I am confident you guys will overcome this!
20 yr cat tech here. just put them on the machine and drive it! soaking them in water is probably the WORST thing you could do. they are DRY pins. they are meant to stay DRY. rust builds up between the pin and the bushing, that is what causes them to seize. you have to get them on the machine and drive it around to break the rust loose. they will squeak and squall until they are all cleaned out. if its to loud, pour used motor oil on the chains, that will help them free up. once they are free, they will be just like new
Excellent advice and thank you! We will be doing this in a future video. It will be on a different machine because the engine in this one is not properly broke in yet.
Yes, I concur with Bobcat. People are quick to recycle used engine oil and they miss the second and third purpose uses. Remember that you can heat oil to just short of boiling and it will almost penetrate cast iron.
That’s what I was going to say motor oil (used ) and run it spray PB Blaster in the pins it will work loose 👍
Can I just put my 5 eggs in here? Using diesel engine oil is best. Hotter the better 🙏
I had a few stuck track pins on a drill rig that sat for three months. What i did was spray the pins with 50/50 diesel and ATF, then tightened the tracks more than I usually would and left it that way for about three weeks while tramming around and working as I normally do. After the three weeks, I loosened the tracks to normal tension and the stuck pins were free.
Old engine oil and kerosene works just as well.
HERE IS YOUR ANSWER!! Electrolysis. Roll the tracks back up. Place a couple car tires in the water tub you used and place the track on top of the tires. Put the other track in the tub the same way. It is OK if the tracks touch each other. For the size of your tub, put in 3 to 5 pounds of baking soda and mix thoroughly. Make sure the tracks are covered in water. Get you heavy duty battery charger and connect the negative lead to both tracks. Make good connection with jumper cables or the like to each track. Get a clean piece of steel and connect to the positive lead of the battery charger and submerge in the water away from the tracks. Turn the battery charger to 12 volts and turn to high amps. Keep all livestock from the tub area. In a couple days your tracks will be freed up to install. ENJOY!!
Great video. Your experiment on soaking the track chains is outstanding!!! Good information for folks with the same dilemma. I am learning much from your channel. I bet your son is gazing at you from above with a big smile on his face.
His experiment was the worst thing he could do and defied common sense. Water causes rusting. A quick google search would have told him what to do and saved him 3 days and more damage to his tracks.
@excitedbox5705 I can definitively say it didn't do any more damage to the tracks then was already done. If they run in snow water mud it's the same thing basically. As stated in previous videos this was a Myth Busters type experiment.
Great video. In the opening, I noticed the crank starting of the 22. I grew up with a 15, we'd get it to the compression stroke and them LIFT the crank; with that machine, cranking up and over top dead center was a formula to bonk yourself in the head with the crank. Love what you do.
You are absolutely correct! I have been doing it (dangerously) wrong. We will be definitely heading your advice in the future. Many thanks! 👍
You guys got this! Love watching you and dad spending time on projects. I lost my dad in ‘19 and would give my right arm to have him in my shop for a few days. Keep pushing! Good things will happen! Peace brother!
Thank you and God bless. 😊
Squatch253 rebuilt his tracks. He made tools to get the pins out. BUT, when he was done, they worked very well.
The following episode is where he started.
th-cam.com/video/wdVVLbcPZvc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qlkL3s2M_5cENU6S
Hi guys certified caterpillar plant technician here! You guys are doing really well, I've restored a couple of vintage cat machines myself, and they're always a challenge. I've mostly worked on the new stuff i.e machines made in the last 10 to 20 years but one thing I always struggle with is tracks. There is a reason why big caterpillar dealers have their own track maintenance departments is because it is one of the most frustrating things that I normal plant technician can deal with. Also modern tracks are more complicated because theyre expected to have a longer life and also have to turn a lot freer. These old tracks are very simple and thus have more friction and more problems in my opinion.
I've not ever done field service I've only ever repaired machines coming to be repaired and thus I've have done things mostly by the book with all the proper CAT tooling equipment. In my professional opinion soaking the tracks in water is actually worse because it is liable for water to get into the tracks links and pins and cause corrosion making your life harder in the long run I've also never heard of anyone's soaking tracks in water in the UK and expecting them to perform better.
Thank you very much for the comment. After a lot of frustrating work this was definitely a "Hail Mary" approach. We are fortunate enough to live in a very dry climate and so far I haven't seen any negative repercussions. I definitely wouldn't do it again. 😊 I have some future videos coming out where I think we find a better solution. It was also partly on the advice of another caterpillar mechanic. I've been wondering if running tracks in snow would have a similar effect? It was not anything I encountered during my work in Antarctica. However I'm guessing the cold shrinks pins and bushings so it's less of an issue. Thanks again, cheers.
when we found our Clark CA-1 Airborne Dozer we soaked the entire dozer in a tank of avaporust, took a few weeks to clean and prep for undercoat, but it went back together easily and we ad no issue with the tracks, well owerth the expense of the evaporust... also reusable after filtering...
Don't soak or beat on them, just wrap them and run it a little they will free right up. I'm 75 years old and have been messing with heavy equipment most of my life.
Yep I agree
If the tracks are moving that much. Take a cable and wrap it around the rear sprocket pull the tracks over the sprocket and just run them. It will free up after a bit of turning over the idler and the sprocket. We used to get tracks that been sitting in the yard for a while on pallets and would just uncurl them with a front end loader and put them on the machine.
Lamp oil in Walmart , in the can/bottle, mixed wit ATF marvel mistry oil, works tooo, thanks BigAl California
Patience and perseverance wins every time. You and father have repeatedly demonstrated you have plenty of both.
I have seen a nameless person build a bonfire around a set of stiff tracks. 🔥
They got cherry red, and they were easier to work with after.
But that's the last thing to do to your Komatsu yellow paint job.
Me and Pop enjoy your videos on this side of the pond 🇬🇧
Thanks.
"When your going through hell, keep on going" 👍🏻
Thank you! We definitely appriciate the pep talk. ☺️👍
FYI, if you ever use naval jelly there are two types: one type changes the rust into primer, and the other type eats the rust away. Also, if you have a local powder coating shop, maybe you could put it in their powder coating oven overnight? Rust can’t expand or shrink with heat, that’s why heat then cooling works.
It's not two types, it's two different application methods. Same jelly, just creates an oxide (not primer) if you let it sit longer.
After drinking out of that tank for a few weeks, the cattle are now identifying as bulldozers. They’re out in the field pushing dirt around with their noses!
🤣😂🤣, my wife says cow slobber might have been the secret ingredient!
Great episode, good to see the struggles. Not everything is beer and skittles. Sometimes its rust and steel.
Hay their guys
What a journey you both have travelled, truly commendable on a lot of fronts. I guess I would have been deflated as well, luckily you had options, and I think you took the right one. Episode 128 well be a huge relief to you both, to hear Festas roar and sort out the rest of the track issues. Hopefully they loosen up.
See you both on the next one.
Aussie Peter ✌
Thank you Peter! We always very much appreciate your comments and kind words.
I still can't quite figure out the logic of putting a rust seized track into rust inducing water to free it up.
Soaking in evaporust I can see. But not water.
To be honest, I completely agree. This was just something that so many old cat mechanics and Old Timers wanted us to try. They swore that it worked. When you think about it, these tracks often operate in water anyways. It was an experiment. They do say water is the universal solvent. 👍
Had there been molasses in there, for a week or three, the rust would've been eaten away....
Just an idea. Take the grousers off. Slid the chain in some pipe plug the ends of the pipe and fill 1/2 and 1/2 with ATF and diesel. If you vent the pipe you can even build a fire under it so the track chain is in hot oil.
If you have another crawler tractor, pull the chains out on the gravel. Back the other tractor up on the chains and fasten the end to the tractors track, drive forward and back so the rusty chain raps around the tractor track, it will loosen. Then soak the first pins on each end with diesel to free up, Install and drive. This worked great on new TD 20 tracks that had been on a pallet for years. Good luck
We're a month or more out but I think that's going to be our fix. 😊👍
Nothing you can't over come. You guys have had plenty of obstacles during this build. You'll get there. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with.
Just drive it, and a little lubricant doesn't hurt either. I always prefer diesel or atf. You want a thin oil that doesn't evaporate quickly. Good luck, guys. And thanks for saving the dozer from scrap.
No substitute for horse power! New pins and bushes will often be stiff and appear lumpy when put together first time but 40 hp should rotate the track and the recoil spring is there to absorb the load on the idler 'til the pins free up. Looking good.
Get a gallon of KROIL, I use it on parts that have been in water for 30 years and aircraft, it guarantees penetration in 1 millionth of clearance. Put in a squirt can and put it on the joints.
I've seen guys use a rosebud on stiff bushings and then run it while still hot. Much like loosening a rusted bolt with heat.
Acetone mixed with trans fluid. soak the pins, have a beer, then just fit the tracks and run it around until the creaking stops. paint should be the last part of any project.
A buddy told me use, laundry softener to take out rust from inside of engine and radiator.
I can't remember what brand, but I think he said Calgone or Downey.
Mix a cup to five gallons of water and run engine for about 50 miles.
Pull off bottom radiator hose to drain.
Repeat several times.
Maybe if you soak the tracks in water again, you can add some softener and put some kind of an agitator to keep water circulating.
Just a suggestion.
Have you considered putting glycerin in the water when you soak the tracks? It’ll provide some level of lubricant to your soak and it won’t poison the trough.
I was skeptical of the water soak. I could see it might work if your bind was dirt related. But if it’s rust related, straight water is only going to compound the jacking/binding.
Ugh!!!!😮
For sure! Next week will be more exciting. We will have a Tues and Thurs video. Got a members only for tomorrow. Thanks Tom!
Someone's going to lose a finger....track work takes experience
Agreed, let's hope we can keep it safe. We're working on the experience part right now. 👍
@ hickey bar or crow bar, best way to handle tracks, you can mostly keep your hand off them, good luck…I retired equipment mechanizing with all my fingers…
Electrolysis would have been my "go to" but you'd probably still have to work them loose, frustrating as it is you will get there 👍👍
I would have put diesel into a spray bottle and sprayed all the links and left it over night, then put the tracks on and ran it around a bit, the tracks will loosen up quick enough, most of the stiffness is the paint.
If you put the tracks on, put it in neutral and try to tow it around the yard and see if they free up. No stress on the fresh engine or transmission.
I think we will at least give it a go. Fingers crossed the engines all run. 👍
Life without a track press sucks, i hate to see you guys struggle with those frozen pins
I think we're going to try and build one. 👍
Hello
Did you ever consider soaking the tracks in Evaporust ?
Squatch253 made a chainrepair on one of his Cat-D2's.
This was most interresting to watch, and maybe useful for You too.
He built tools himself to remove / insert the bolts.
I think we found a solution. We've got a couple videos coming out next month that show it in better detail. I will definitely keep the evapo-rust in mind for the future. 👍
I'd never put them in water. It causes them to rust and letting them dry before trying to unroll them causes flash rusting which makes it even worse. I'd use a large air hammer or jackhammer on the joints. The vibration would loosen the rust and get the pins moving. Mount them and drive the heck out of it.
We were skeptical but figured we had nothing to lose. You can bet we will be doing what you mentioned in the future. 👍
Know a guy who restores crawlers. Has done it for many years. He had a d4 that someone put new tracks on , then it sat for years. When he got it the tracks were totally siezed. He tried soaking them with oil and different stuff. Didnt work. They were so stuck the machine couldn't move itself. With the d4 running and another machine pulling he got it into a creek. Kept going up and down stream and it could move on its own. After many trips up and down stream it was good as new.
There is part of me that still thinks the water would work. The rust proves that it can get in there. So if it got in there once, I'm guessing it would do it again. I've heard so many stories just like yours. Even my grandfather said that they used water on stuck tracks in Alaska. These stotys were the reason we thought we would give it a try. Either way, I'm thinking we will end up where we should have started. That is building a track pin press. Perhaps we didn't soak them long enough? 👍
Have you ever thought about a warm oil/ diesel mix bath, not sure what you’d use for a container but seems like to me you need to get water into those links
We did consider similar options but the cost was very prohibitive. Soaking them in PB Blaster for months didn't seem to have much impact. They were also coated in used oil after we got the machine. We'll see how they move but I'm thinking a track pin press might be our only option. 👍
Its messy, but dry it out all the way and soak it in diesel fuel then hang it bit at a time and hammer it
let its weight go to work
Y'all are just pure hardheaded
Don’t go backwards put the track’s on leave the tractor off the ground run one track at a time take put a gal of Diesel in a pump sprayer and run it add keep spraying it will penetrate those pins and loosen everything thing up. And a Bonus the Diesel will clean the floor nicely. 🤘🏼🤘🏼🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
If all goes well with the engines I think we'll give it a try. 👍
40 years with the Cat dealer, mostly field service: Just fit the tracks and run the machine. New sets of tracks can sit around outside for a year or more before being fitted. Likewise, tight links from an over enthusiastic press operator during a pin and bush turn, both will give you a headache when it comes to installing them. The machine is stronger than you are!
I'm over a month ahead on videos at the moment. You will see us struggle building a track press. By mid-november we are going to heed your advice! Dad and I discussed doing this just a few hours ago! Your comment just solidified the deal! 👍
Maybe a large pot of boiling machine oil would open that track up. I still think a bed of hot coals over night would do it. But, I just like black smithin.
I'd try a long vinegar soak, maybe not for this project as paint doesn't like it but future content. And I'm sure that first sounds like "holy shit, that's a lot of vinegar. It could damage the concrete" both true, but hear me out. Now I've never attempted on such a large scale, but to mitigate vinegar use on larger or odd shaped objects I place them in a much larger bag, and the bag in a bucket/barrel/tub of water as to keep the solution in the bag in contact with the part. Uses much less and keeps it where I want it. In your case, you'd need large enough square of painters plastic to imagine a bundt cake form around each track, separating the water 'cake pan' from vinegar track 'cake'. Start with high 150-300 grain vinegar so you can dilute, and some sodium bicarbonate to neutralize later on.
A while back I posed a question on a forum about an immobile tractor with frozen tracks. Someone suggested running the tractor into a shallow stream to loosen them. I guess he missed the "immobile" part. If a tractor can move, it was suggested to just to run the heck out of it and the tracks will loosen up over time but old photos of this same tractor show the track lifting 8-10 inches off of the top roller. If I bought the tractor, I'd be tempted to hose it down with a couple of cans of PB penetrant/Kroil and let it sit for awhile. Just my 2-cents.
My go to rust buster is under the rim toilet bowl cleaner!
Interesting! Never heard that one.
@@lifeafterourloss It's not a joke. buy some and try it dollar store brand is fine pick the worst spot in one of the tracks lay it on its side soke 3 or 4 pins let them soak overnight. I had a 3 point turn buckle that was so rusty I told myself don't waste your time throw in the scrap pile. I did not listen and made a trough out of a trash bag the next day it was free. The trick is do it before trying any lubricant you want dry virgin rust it will soak up toilet bowl cleaner and will melt the rust.
Have you tried heating up transmission fluid, or old oil and soaking the bad links in it with a large tray that will allow a section of the track at a time to soak in the hot fluid. That may loosen them up.
We did soak them with penetrating oil after sandblasting.
The universal solvent.
My grandfather used old motor oil with diesel mixed in an old vat and soaked them for a week.
You can get Evaporust in a 55 gallon drum. Probably expensive but it might be an option.
I think we will bite the bullet and build a pin pusher. It will just take some time. We will have it for future projects too. 👍
I think in the end you may take the pins apart. As much as I would like to say there are alternative ways. The sure way is to take it apart and be done with it for life.
I think you are right!
Soak them in used oil and a little fuel.
@@raymondwaterman6520 that's to simple, might mess the paint up
@@lifeafterourloss Errrr, sandblasted ? Have you ever had good results by sand-blasting assembled parts? In my experience sandblasting only helps with components, never assemblies.
@sayeretmatkaal My older videos explain the reasoning better than I can here.
@@lifeafterourloss Thank You for the pointer. I thought I saw all your videos, but maybe I have missed a few.
if you would've poured a few gallons of vinegar into that water it would have released those track links for sure.
I wonder if there is a way to either use vacuum above the oil pump in a galley while spinning the engine to get the oil pump to pick up and prime. Or pour oil into a passage the oil pump to prime it so it has the ability to suck oil up on its own.
Are there plugs that can be removed at the oil cooler connection. Or i missed the big oil filter housing install if the filter housing could be separated and a shop vacuum used to suck while the engine is cranked.
Dry starts do to a loss of prime on the oil pump will really kill crank bearings.
Future builds. Stay lube moly graphite assembly lube on bearings and to pack the pump gears does not drip out. It does slightly darken the oil on the first run.
Preparing for the next build. Test several graphite sprays on the non polished crank and timing sprockets. To see about rust blocking.
I would also pull the engine side cover and drop in the bottom of that cast iron oil pan at least one neodymium magnet to gather any rust that comes off in the oil before it goes thru the pump. If you use neodymium magnets with a hole in the middle. Twist a loop of copper wire so you can easily retrieve them with a hook and it exposes more surface to gather rust.
I blew out a clogged fuel filter into a plastic bowl. Sediment. I had a magnet there and i dropped it in the dirt gas. A curious clean area around the magnet. I pushed the magnet along with my finger. A clean area of the bowl appeared. I have been putting magnets at my own cost into customers fuel tanks for over 20 years now. On plastic tanks. I put one inside. Then capture it with one on the outside. Gorilla duct tape over the outside one.
That is a good idea. We definitely slathered everything with pre assembly lube. Although it does not show in the video, hand cranking was actually picking up oil in the pump. In the past I have always packed oil pumps with vasoline. I should really consider the magnets, great suggestion!
The ony thing that will work is to press the pins out and clean them up. Nothing else will work
You are 100% right! That's the direction we're heading. 👍
You want to soak it in vitamin C + water and hook a battery up to the track and an iron rod. That reduces the rust back to iron. Days and they will have no more rust.
Why would water on it's own remove rust when that is what speeds up oxidation?
This whole track saga was like watching 4chan prank iphone users 😂
That would have been a lot less work on our part, 🤣.
It's not one and done - it takes a couple of goes sometimes and not on all links either. Just need patience but it does work soaking in water. There are other methods but this is the easiest/cheapest/least toxic if you're not in a hurry
Heat in a kiln? Maybe find a powder coater and see if he can fit them in his oven, heat them up good and long. Then apply pressure when hot?
I think you have enough movement to gets things rotating. Once you get them moving I think thev will loosen up quickly.
We are going to give it a try.
We try and fire it up this week. Got Tuesday and Thursday videos. We'll see how it goes and maybe take it for a spin. 👍
What part of water + steel = rust am I missing?
We got many recommendations to soak the stuck track chains in water. Water is known as the "universal solvent" by many. Signs of rust in the water were a good sign that the water penetrated the pins. At least that's the idea. I don't think it works on track chains stuck this long. 👍
Did you glue the bellows seals
We put new seals so the hope is they will wear in. Fingers crossed.
Sorry, I misread your comment. We used a silicone. They are IH TD9 seals that we made adapters for. The "cork" was already installed on the seal. Episode #48 & #52 show it in better detail. 👍
Giant ultra sonic cleaner vinegar in it . Try that.
Electrolysis battery charger and some cow urine..
😂
Hey at this point we've got nothing to lose. 🤣
As I said before just put them on the machine and run it and they will free up
Yep, that is the next step! 👍
Add 3lb of citric acid and 6lbs of arm and hammer Bicarbonate of Soda and put it back in the water for 24 hrs.
Why not put a little penetrating oil in the joints to help loosen em up
Check with Clinton C&C Equipment, he can help, with all of your needs, thanks BigAl California
I will check C&C out. 👍😊
May be some oil ?
👍👍
Water is the opposite of good in any way for metal let alone a metal on metal pivoting joint/pin. WD or PB maybe, but water??? Metal's mortal enemy?
We thought so too. We tried the PB Blaster, heat and many other methods. Water was recommended by many old Caterpillar mechanics. Basically we had nothing left to lose at that point. 👍
@@lifeafterourloss I get it! Sometimes the most ridiculous stuff works out. =))) Enjoying the videos regardless! Best wishes and can't wait to see it in action!
next time you have to free up some tracks, let me recommend upgrading the "soak" bath by using a pump to circulate your water (preferably rinsing away any grime coming from the pins). I would also consider adding something to agitate/vibrate/move the tracks regularly. i think this would help to work out any grime during the soak, allowing more grime to soften.
i grew up in agriculture and the farmers around me all soaked/treated their chains in diesel throughout the off-season. tracks (especially those) would take a lot to fully submerge, but you could essentially vacuum bag the tracks and fill that with a few gallons of diesel/cleaner.
Start it and run it.. it will come loose
Stuck pins, uggg...! Hopefully you won't have to push the pins.
I have a bad feeling we will have to. 😖
Arrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!
Tow it with the backhoe whilst using the cat's engine
I would tow the tracks loose round the paddock behind skidsteer.
drive some weight over the tracks sure it would loosen or least start breaking the pins loose
Well, why did ya think that soaking steel in water helps to loosen up rust, seizing, or much of anything else other than removing dirt?
It was just an experiment. So many old school cat skinners recommended the technique. I suppose it's no different than running them in snow, mud or rain. Our climate is so dry here I wasn't really worried. At least we busted that myth, 😁.
@@lifeafterourloss
Cool! Yes, it's nice that you all of your time and hard work was not in vain
Maybe you should have soaked them in oil.......
We tried PB blaster for several months after sandblasting. No noticeable change. 😊
Electrolysis
Use a coal fire and burn the rust out to break it free like you would do to break a rusted bolt or nut free!!!
People shouting at these two but mario and pall aint listening
We are hard headed. That's how I break bricks. 👍
You had one set installed already. Why the hell would you take it back off. Just run it till it loosens up.
Because the engine is not properly broke in yet. We don't want to stop midstream to deal with track issues. It's going to need a consistent pull to break it in properly. 👍
Penetrating oil ???
We've put almost a case of penetrating oil on the pins.
10 gallons of molasses in the water soak tor a week
That’s what I said last video, it’s the best cleaner for rust between steel parts and no risk of damage, been using it for over 15 years now
I'm super confused why you would soak something rusty in water....
Surely that's just going to make it rust more?!?
Seems like a terrible idea unless I'm missing something.
I know what happened, you used the wrong brand of water. You should have used Great Value Spring Water instead of the Drinking Water. The PH is .0000001% off. "There's Your Problem."
Yes, I'M Kidding, before some Hydrologist comes and corrects MY PH values vs Alkalinity. ;-)
I had to read this comment allowed to my wife and we are both giggling like little kids! You made our day! 🤣
@@lifeafterourloss Thank you Sir. Sometimes my sarcasm fails to produce those results.🤣
@thebegrsshow As far as sarcasm goes, you're in good company here! 😁
@@lifeafterourloss I had a feeling after all your blood sweat and tears cleaning, prepping, and painting those pads & rails, and then dunking them in water, you would be one of the few that would get it. Thanks again, and good luck with your beautiful restoration.
It just baffles me why you would soak metal in a water media. That literally defies logic as to trying to get something metal to move. Common sense would suggest oil/lubrication and physical manipulation would be more productive.
We did try used oil, PB Blaster, Heat, I even threw them around with a backhoe. A lot of old caterpillar mechanics recommended this. We figured there was nothing to lose. It might work on tracks that weren't sitting as long as these were. But in our case it didn't change anything. Next Step is to just run it. If that doesn't work, we will build a track pin press. 👍
Hi, you have a great channel. I have just found you after swatches shoutout.
Since you have a trough big enough to soak these in, I wonder if electrolysis would remove enough of the rust on the pins.
How to use electrolysis to remove rust
th-cam.com/video/OkdJlM0bI2U/w-d-xo.html
It won’t do much for your paint though.
Thanks for the video.
You need to understand what is an organic solvent. Water does nothing. Use diesel, atf, old engine oil, any organic solvent.
Y'all are just pure hardheaded
Maybe you should have soaked them in oil......
We soaked them in penetrating oil for about 2 months after they were sandblasted. We couldn't see any difference. Perhaps the ATF mixture would have worked better. 👍