Though no one stood on the disagree line, it was interesting to have a respectful conversation with those who agreed. That isn't too common around the pronoun/gender discourse.
Pronouns are not "your" words. They are not words you ever use to describe yourself. They are words that other people use about you. So now we have to ask: "Should I have the right to describe you as I see you, or should I have to describe you as you like to be seen?". The answer to this seems obvious, and we know who all this empowers, being forced to comply with a curated self image. Control of speech benefits the powerful and well appointed, not the disenfranchised (and I don't mean "the illuminati" or anything like that). It's not shy teens with blue hair that get empowered, it's the rich and powerful who don't like being talked about in any way other than they think they should be talked about.
@@TyghtAlso Interesting reasoning, until you got to the far-right talk radio conspiracy stuff about a hyper-wealthy/powerful cabal. Enjoy the long weekend!
I'm not far right, and I never listen to the radio, so I'm not sure about that. I stated that control of speech benefits the powerful, not the disenfranchised (Chomsky, BTW, makes the same points in the same language. I guess he's the next Limbaugh). Nothing was said about "cabal/s". I bow to your greater knowledge of political radio, I suppose. I have edited my comment, for others who might also bring irrelevant assumptions to the table. I hope you have a pleasant month, so there!@@scottsherman5262
The narcissism involved in expecting an entire language to bend to one's woo-woo beliefs is staggering. Further, to be accused of "violence" (as some do) when using the appropriate pronoun is asinine.
and what happens when your pronouns that you expect me to say makes me uncomfortable because I dont agree with your concept? why is my discomfort as the person you want to change they behavior completely meaningless and yours is paramount?
@@Fraggle-h7o exactly, why is "trespassing" against the pronoun person some sort of "cardinal sin" in their eyes. It's as though they think "sure, being 'mean' to someone is bad, but if you're 'mean' to a pronoun person, then it is this profound, earth-shattering, damning sin. It really is like a religion in that they treat it as sacrilege.. you've sinned against the holy lamb. It's very "do you even know who I am".
yeah its weird...like I 100% empathize with transpeople who try to actually transition because they feel like they can't even live in this world at their birth gender/sex. I have massive empathy for them, because I understand their suicide rate as a people is bonkers...but these are people who claim soap/shampoo as real genders and tell us we have to conform and use their nonsense. no thanks. this is something therapy is required to cure@@chrisalmendra4370
And the narcissism is only further magnified when we consider that the only pronouns in question are the 3rd person pronouns, which are generally used only when the person in question is not even present or, at least, isn't part of the conversation. So they want to control my speech when they're not even around. Narcissism on steroids.
In my last job we had a lot of young clients who insist on various pronouns that I personally found difficult to remember. Looking at a girl and remembering to use male pronouns is more difficult than it sounds and the consequences of getting it wrong were extreme. The extra layer of stress it added to an already difficult job made it untenable for me so I left. It was not worth it. I now have a different client base, none of whom feel the need to demand that I accommodate narcissistic demands.
In a work situation I would probably use names. The more clunky and awkward the result, the better, because it highlights the stupidity of designer pronouns. For instance: "Karen is here to pick up Karen's packages which Karen's sister sent to Karen at Karen's house but Karen wasn't at Karen's house yesterday to sign Karen's name, and Karen's packages required Karen's signature."
I would maintain the use of actual pronouns. If HR has an issue, I leave. A person is not a they when that person is known. I'm not referring to a female named Chrissy "they." That is she playing mental make-belief in her own mind. The rest of the world need not indulge in it.
Eh, how far do you take that? Do you walk up to dudes with hair plugs and say, "Hey baldy!" Do you walk up to women with breast implants and say, "I don't respect the fact that you artificially changed your appearance and will only call you Flat Sam." People on both sides are too worried about this nonsense. If someone asks me to call them something different than I expected, I may be confused, but I'll call them how they want to be called and move on with my day. Anything else is just inserting meaningless political battles into everyday life which is insanely cringy behavior, and obviously that goes to the people who freak out if you accidentally call them the wrong pronoun before they clarify and ask you to call them something else. If you actually care about this stuff it means you're either too online or too plugged into political propaganda.
@@jorgemartinez42069Nobody is talking about going out of their way to inform people of their delusions. Merely when they are expected to partake in that delusion. It would be disrespectful of me to force my delusions onto you or anyone else. I can't shed my bad ideas if everyone becomes a "yes" man.
@jorgemartinez42069 I disagree with your comparisons. I have never in my life, heard of someone demanding that others recognize their hair plugs as real hair, or a woman with breast augmentation insisting that others recognize her breasts as being natural. Obviously the people playing the pronoun games do that, and insist others participate in their delusion. It's not that we care too much, it's that we don't care at all. We don't want to be bothered by it, or have anything to do with it. I'm just trying to make it to my final resting place, without being coerced to re-learn the English language, because someone else is playing pretend.
@@jorgemartinez42069 " inserting meaningless political battles into everyday life" No, the people demanding that everyone else pander to their delusions is doing this. Nobody should be expecting others to lie to save their feely weelies. They should stop being victims and get on with their lives, and let the rest of us do likewise.
@@SilverSixpence888 Except I'm sure you pick and choose which lies to play along with all the time to avoid conflict and only choose which ones not to play along with when it's a political battle you've been programmed to fight against by your ingroup's narratives. Your wife asks you if you like her haircut or if she looks good in an outfit. Your friend asks you if you liked their play. Your child asks you if their drawing is good. Your sibling changes their name and asks you to call them their new name. Why insert a battle into everyday life over gender BS? Just call the other person how they want to be called and move on with your life. If you spend any amount of time getting "in the trenches" of the culture war fighting people on this and making a scene out of something that could just be a basic human interaction before moving on with your life, you are a terminally online loser. That goes to both sides.
True. But this "respect ALL pronouns" meme is them gifting us a GIANT opportunity to mess with them.... especially for a demographic who have SO MANY no-no words, that they would NEVER want to say in public.... Like, I'm black... and I REALLY want to find out if I can get some super-duper woke white liberal, to address me using the "n-word" as "my pronouns". Full hard-R. I'M not phased by the word... but I suspect most white liberals ARE. Or, I miss the word "rctard". Maybe it could make a comeback, as an innovative new pronoun? I wouldn't use slurs AGAINST the type of person in question, like pulling the "rctard" thing, to someone who actually IS disabled would be pretty fvcked-up... But the idea that these words are just INHERENTLY bad, in ANY context, no matter WHO they're directed towards, or for what intent, is bizarre to me. Like people think the dreaded "n-word" is some magical spell, which, no matter WHAT the context or intent, will just materialise pure racism, out of the ether or something. But pick ANY goofball word you want; That "respect ALL pronouns" meme is an INVITATION to make people say kooky stuff they don't want to say...
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 I definitely wish the people on the wokescold part of the left weren't so annoying too, but if I don't worry about what people are saying on Twitter and actually think about my real life experience being around other human beings, this problem is basically non-existent. These are pointless battles being fought online mostly to keep people distracted. I wouldn't be surprised if half of the accounts on social media that are the vocal culture warrior types on both sides of the aisle were bot accounts meant to divide and conquer political discourse, but that may be getting a little too much into unfounded conspiracy thinking.
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 how devilish of you bacon! you should come back and let us know if you actually use the N-word when someone asks you your pronouns. 😁
I just don't understand how they can agree when the proposition says always. Agreeing to a proposition that includes always just automatically traps you, you no longer gets to use your own judgement on if it's appropriate for the situation or not, if what becomes a demand comes from someone you don't want to have to obey. What if they change their demand every 30minutes?
These gentlemen are talking as if the gender ideology is simply about respect and "you do you and I'll do me". . Parents are having their children taken for not using neo pronouns, people are getting fired from their jobs, female athletes are told to shut up complaining about males in the locker room, and people are forced to take sensitivity classes for wrong think. . This is beyond respect. This is compel speech. This is indeed being forced on everyone.
I'm polite to everyone, including transpeople, because I'm a decent human being. Trying to force all of us to comply via social pressure and name calling has been a big mistake though, because I won't be bullied. It raises my hackles and guarantees I won't cooperate.
I'll admit it's a little disconcerting that you summarized, almost word-for-word (excepting "hackles"), what I was thinking while watching this video 😉
The guy said don't use animals names as a pronoun because the person is a human not an animal but use a female pronoun if you are a male or male pronoun if female. Dunno how he can't see what he said here.
These guys are morons; They can't even structure a goddam, halfway grammatical sentence. Let alone make any coherent argument. "It's just like... peep-oh ARE who dey ARE, right?!? And you need to RESPECK that, coz there's also, umm...."
In my culture, (millennial internet troll) one adopts whatever beliefs are necessary to cause the most chaos. Its important to make sure the people around you won't give you the power to ruin their lives.
Causing chaos is part of the socialist agenda. Blame the chaos on capitalism, seize as much power as possible, and usher in the sexless socialist utopia. No more nuclear families. Loyalty (and dependence) only to the government.
The n-word... the forbidden word... NO? It seems one can't say no without being called a bigot, or worse, these days. I'm a 'big o.t'. (One truth.) I hate the 'my truth' idiocy.
I will not comply with this lunacy. You have a designation, it's your name. You can ask your friends to call you whatever you wish, provided they accept it, but expecting ME, a stranger to you to have to comply? Piss off. This is a social construct that only a portion of our society agrees upon. So this notion of developing social constructs and demand those who don't even agree with it to comply or else be labeled as a bad person is pure stupidity.
"I strongly agree, because at the end of the day, like, you don't understand, like, what persons go through at the outside of their culture. So you have to understand that where they come from, if there are for who they are - you have to respect them for who they are. That's the person that they are, and that that's never going to change whatsoever." Wow!
People dont understand the subtle mechanism behind all this. This is about 3rd person pronouns aka the pronouns you use while talking to a 2nd person when referring to a 3rd person who might or might not be part of the conversation. When they tell you "these are my preferred pronouns", they are policing your language in instances where they might not be present. When person A hears Person B bring up Person C's pronouns, what person A is getting is that Person B is accepting and also pressuring person A to comply as well. It is a combination of social pressure and social acceptance. One solution is to refuse to use preferred pronouns and to start using names instead, you dont need to announce this. Just do it. They will look suspiciously controlling if they start questioning you for using their name instead of their pronouns.
> _"They will look suspiciously controlling if they start questioning you for using their name instead of their pronouns."_ That's a cute idea, but... Have you ever heard the... tragedy of Monica Cellio? I thought not. It's not a a story the SJWs would tell you. It is a StackExchange legend... and it involves that and other clever tricks failing miserably ;).
It's a good point you make, as most of this trans activism is not actually about equal rights, like they pretend. It's really about control, changing how people think, manipulating people's speech, and redefining language. Not just with regard to pronouns, but all of it - eg. the way they seek to control what people think and the way they silence dissent is authoritarian and would make the CCP proud. Unfortunately, they appear to be succeeding.
This is an excellent point that I have never heard or thought about before. It makes the whole thing even more delusional than I thought about before. Wanting to police people's speech when it couldn't possibly harm anyone's feelings because they're not around.
@@xploration1437 It's so annoying how lazy humans have become. 20 years ago when we started doing the first comment thing, we came back and edited it into something hilarious or trendy to entertain people. Now they just want their gold star for showing up.
Pronouns are not "your" words. They are not words you ever use to describe yourself. They are words that other people use about you. So now we have to ask: "Should I have the right to describe you as I see you, or should I have to describe you as you like to be seen?". The answer to this seems obvious, and we know who all this empowers, being forced to comply with a curated self image. It's not shy teens with blue hair, it's the rich and powerful who don't like being talked about in any way other than they think they should be talked about.
yeah you're right. like real trans people who have a really hard time being seen as their birth sex who want to be looked at the way they think they really are requesting we use certain pronouns are something I get. I want them to be able to live their lives, but the 'my pronouns are bubble and gum, respect or die' people are silly. its literally appropriation which I thought the left was against.
@@Fraggle-h7oThe worst enemies of actual trans people are the wild-eyed activists and trans-trenders. I wish more of them would come out and disavow these freaks.
I'd say people deserve a level of respect by default. But also that "I respect you to much to respect your ridiculous idea" , as a British journalist said 🙂
@@quentinlarrieu1804 i would say that I start with some default respect but, since my definition is more emotional than rational, and I've never rationally understood what respect is🙂 (for people), I might be wrong.
10:55 There isn't "new grammars" in 2023, there's just more people using English grammar incorrectly. He, she, it. Those are the choices for 3rd person pronouns, anything else is wrong and should not be accepted.
Actually thats not correct. Use “they” as a generic third-person singular pronoun to refer to a person whose gender is unknown or irrelevant to the context of the usage. For example, " The police man asked the boy, "Where did they go?" And the boy replied " They swam across the river under the dim moonlight" .
@@k-lab3824 Nope! Yes, there are sentences in which it would be normal/natural/reasonable to refer to an individual as "they" but that is not the same as some demented "identify as" demanding you use "they" in place of he or she when anybody who speaks English to any decent level will immediately flag the usage as off, awkward or simply just wrong. Your example is a perfect example of what I mean "The police man" would only ask a boy "where did they go" if he was asking about multiple people OR if said policeman had been brainwashed by the DEI team to deliberately use English in an abnormal manner out of some absurd need to pander to freaks.
@@annefagit3305Sorry but that's just not true. They and them can be used as singular pronouns. If you take notice you will see that people use it all the time to refer to an individual where their gender is unknown. For example " the old lady watched "them" cross the street in the dark moonlight. She couldn't tell who the person was or even if "they" were male or female. I don't use pronouns myself so I'm not defending the whole movement. It's more of a technical point I am making.
@@k-lab3824 Where we agree: there is a time and a place where describing a single person using they or them is ordinary English. Where we don't agree: therefore anybody who wants to use they/them instead of he/she/him/her is automatically covered even if he or she is obviously using they/them incorrectly to meet some ideological demand.
I think that makes some good sense, & I tend to agree...however, if I'm face to face with a person who's made it known that they prefer to be referred to as "It", I'm never talking to them. Now, if for some reason I'm forced to talk to them, I would go ahead & say "Hey It, you should stop playing pickle ball now because of the thunderstorm", & then I could go home & talk to my lovely wife about how I called someone It because I'm a super nice guy.
@@scottsherman5262Generally it isn’t even necessary to use a pronoun to refer to a person in their presence. So it’s a matter of being a goodcommrade using the rightwords when the person isn’t even there to feel the violence of the wrongwords. In the end it’s about believing they are actually whatever they say they are.
I agree... but with one correction. They aren't 'their' pronouns. Nobody owns pronouns. Pronouns are used by other people. And one doesn't and shouldn't own others bodies, words, or beliefs. It is not people's job to affirm others beliefs!
I freaking love this comment so darn much...I'm convinced I wrote it. Having said that, my team of lawyers are sending a cease & desist letter at once.
Yes, that's a good way to put it. It's like they are not just bending the knee, they are bending over. The guy who said he would be willing to call someone "Master" has totally lost the plot and isn't even thinking about what he's saying.
This is a modern day Tower of Babel where large groups of people can't communicate. I my experience, people won't even tell you that you have offended them, they just proceed to punish you. For me this has resulted in denial of medical services, cancelling my appointments, & vandalism of my personal property.
I am now a geezer, and this hand wringing seems like madness. I have twice listened to "The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling." This dogmatic anger is beyond me, directed at someone who clearly expressed her thoughts. The dismissal of Richard Dawkins by much of the TH-camr atheist crowd is curious to see. Words like bigot, liar, coward, and transphobe are so loosely tossed about, to label and dismiss a dissenter, the words have lost all meaning. C'est la vie.
@Peter Boghossian been a pretty big critic of you in the past, though never an antagonist, but I really respect a lot of what you're doing today. You've honed technique in a respectable way. I honestly want to see you take on crazy in a way that isnt politically specific but other than that, im impressed and I wish you a lot of success...
in his old videoes he tended to go harder on the left leaning people and just kinda agree with the right leaning. to be clear I am not saying he is himself rightwing. Just that the dichotomy of his questions lended to him favoring the right-leaning side because his overall goal appears to be to move the Overton window right, owing to the fact that he thinks the left has gone too far. My position is that both the right and left have gone too far and both need to be criticized. I think he is a great potential mover of opinions to the center but that he chooses one side to move and not the other. He asks questions that are hard for liberals much more often than questions hard for conservatives. He is also clear in his podcasts and other material that his goal is to move people away from the wildly far left. My opinion is that he'd serve the country better by moving both the wildly far left and wildly far right closer to center both have gotten wacky and dangerous though not to the same degree. but I mean its hard to manage that and not alienate a potential audience, and he has to worry about that too so I understand its difficult to do the whole 'hey lets talk about the fact that the election was authentic' thing for him atm. @@AGripOBabys
the president of the United States (trump) claimed the election was rigged and demanded a secretary of state "find" him the exact number of ballots he needed to win or else he would be put in prison and have his career ruined. and that's not 1/10 of the crazy MJG has put out(peach tree dishes and electric burgers). Im sorry, philosophical hand wringing about 'what is a woman uwu' doesn't compare. its dumb but its not on the same planet.@@beowulf_of_wall_st ffs his dudes literally stormed the capital to prevent the election results and chanted about hanging the vice president. He sat on his hands for an hour and when he finally got off them his speech was 'remember this day'. Holy fuck you're actually pretending that Biden stupidly pretending he doesn't know what equal woman is the bigger offense? on what possible basis How can you actually pretend the idiotic lefty stuff concerning gender compares in the slightest to the conspiracy rhetorical bullshit that attempted to destroy American democracy?
@@beowulf_of_wall_st- if you think that’s truly the case, then he needs to get started on that ASAP, because the right when bat shit crazy a bit before the left did. We have high-ranking government officials to prove it .
Seeing this is disturbing: people confusing respect, identity and preference with clear communication and grammar. This is crazy and sad. Pronoun use is up to the speaker. No one gets to choose a pronoun.
"..for people to evolve." I would then ask; "Evolution is about getting better - do you think it's okay if the other side doesn't think using every pronoun is evolution, and doing so can have negative affects?" Just so they can clue-in on an objective truth of what is right/wrong.
Evolving into bad grammar and supporting delusions, makes total sense to me. I identify as a three toed sloth and my pronouns are 🤢🤮🤯. This garbage is exhausting. Those three thought that was a deep meaningful discussion, that is the most concerning part. If anyone ever asked me to use special language for them the best they would get would be, that person. For example, that person needs to get a grip, or that person needs to leave before I get triggered. Yes I am a snowflake.
not really an option for me because im gay and liberal(like 2002 liberal not modern type liberal). not really interested in being eaten by my own and the only other option seems to be being eaten by not-my-own. What do people like us do?
@@Fraggle-h7o lol! It’s an expression… when the crazy leftists can’t even keep up with their own tenets, they disagree and “eat their own.” Thanks for the laugh!
I would so love to participate in one of these exercises. It's so fascinating hearing how people think. Come to Europe! Would be interesting to compare.
Also... respect is earned, not dictated. How can one expect the world to track one's personal preferences? The world has better things to do. And what could one possibly do to earn the respect of the world? Does such a one (insisting upon respect for their pronouns) really, in turn, respect everyone in the world? Right, Left, or Center? If not, those insisting on respect but failing to give it are hypocrites for expecting something from the world that they don't give themselves. And thus not worthy of respect.
3:55 about the pronouns like frog and stuff the guy on the strongly agree line says: ‘that is not really a gender pronoun and that I don’t really agree on…’ But after realizing he is not consistent when it comes to the line he stands on, he suddenly does… 😂 And later on he even agrees on people giving him pronouns he never asked for himself. My lord, he would even call someone ‘master’ 😂 I mean…really?? No way!
These guys have clearly not thought about this much at all. At the same time, I don't know if english is there first language or not. But these are such messy arguments... One of them responds to the a question about your neo-pronouns like insect gender by saying, 'Yeah, of course, we're all born human.' For example, when I refer to my cat, I don't say cat/catself... I just say he. Sex applies to animals too. Species =/= gender
If someone asked me what my pronouns are, I would say - “pick one”. I have no time for this and their argument is never good enough for me to give it the time.
Back in the 1970s, the feminists introduced Ms rather than Mrs. But it didn't replace Miss. For a while, this avid 1970s feminist (myself) used it. All it did was reveal my politics and disrespect my marriage decision. Socially, Miss was for single women, and Ms wasn't used to replace Miss. (Australia) Why didn't this movement invent an agreed gender neutral pronoun and "push" it is beyond me. Oh, that's right, they're not united as a group/movement, and they want to disrupt society etc. "They' was dropped out of the English language (except for specific purpose) about 300 years ago for good reasons. Anyone choosing "they" just indicates a puffed up, multiple personality to me. It is not singular for a known person.
All this stuff depends on the grammar of the language. English uses a pronoun routinely to indicate the grammatical person/ persons performing an action. This is not true of all languages e.g. modern Greek einai means he, she, it or they is/are depending on the context. A pronoun is only used if particular emphasis is required. Why get so exercised about a quirk of grammar? To me its not particularly respectful to refer to a singular person by a plural pronoun and it is sometimes confusing. "It" is at least singular and not sex specific.
They basically said “I don’t believe it but since they do I’ll go along with it out of respect.” Why? Why should we suppress our own beliefs on behalf of someone else’s? It’s so strange how people have conflated respect with spinelessness.
The word I would object to is "always" in the question, “Preferred pronouns should always be respected.” Would these fellows be happy to use the preferred pronouns of a fascist if their choice was extremely offensive?
@@hedgehog1965uk but even if they ask instead of demanding it should be allowed to be able to politely decline. The same way some person might ask someone else to believe in their god. A polite, no thank you, but we can still exist together.
What it does for me is protect me from wasting time talking to someone delusional and not being paid as a therapist. I really don't have time to play this charade with a stranger on the street
It's notable that this conversation was calm, thoughtful, and respectful, with no yelling, name-calling, attempts to shut down the conversation due to being triggered or traumatized, etc. Gee, I wonder why?
@@drpeterboghossian I really appreciate the respectful, logical manner in which you encourage people to think through why they believe what they believe. When people hang in there through to the end, it can be quite informative for the conversants themselves and us audience members. Great work, Peter. I imagine it's difficult to get people to see the conversation through - I think of the social work students who spoke to you on campus who cared about "educating you" as opposed to reflecting on their beliefs and arguments for them.
@@glennanderson8981 I think its was respectful because they all agreed to have the conversation in good faith, regardless of how bs it may have been. Many of the people Peter encounters (I'm thinking mainly woke feminists) are totally unwilling to have the conversation and would rather sabotage it than engage in honest intellectual reflection.
Growing up in New York, I hung out at gay bars with my roommate, who was gay, while I am not. It was common for everyone to playfully refer to each other as 'girl', a term I didn't mind in that context. As I traveled the country with my band (you can see me in my profile picture), I was occasionally mistaken for a woman, often by waitresses or store clerks but it never bothered me. This current uproar over pronouns and the intense reactions to being misgendered seem crazy to me. I feels like a mental disorder and don't believe we should be so compelled as to alter our everyday way of life because of it. It feels like an unusual cultural shift being imposed on society. I really hope it goes away.
I don't think it's actually much of an uproar in real life. If you get all of your understanding of what real life is by watching it through the internet and media I can see why it would seem that way, but there aren't that many people out there in the real world that actually freak out on you if you accidentally misgender them. Now if you intentionally keep calling them something they don't want to be called they might get upset, but that would be like if people in your background kept coming up to you after realizing you weren't a woman, rather a dude with long hair, and with disdain and mockery kept saying "What can I get for you, *miss*?" and rolling their eyes. This whole debate seems like manufactured culture war BS to keep people distracted from real issues to my eyes.
@@jorgemartinez42069 it is an issue and it’s more than just the gender phenomena. It’s the whole woke culture and it’s takeover of our institutions. The gender part is just ridiculousness. It’s ridiculous for the receptionist at the hospital is to ask a giant burly man in his 60s what his pronouns are but that’s what happens. It makes America look like fools. Ze zim and zer sounds like something I would make up as a child just to be annoying. It’s just more of that babying culture that started with millennials and their participation trophies. No one has a spine anymore. The whole focus of our being has been turned inward and as a result people have become self absorbed and over sensitive. Idk. Maybe it’s not as bad as I think but it sure feels like the wrong direction to me.
"My words" are the ones I use, aren't they? My adjectives are the ones that I express, not the ones I'd like others to call me by. So what's up with this "my pronouns"? Why should they be different? "Rrespect my pronouns" should actually mean "respect the pronouns that I use", right? It's weird but semantically correct, isn't it? I ask because I'm Italian so _my_ English might need some adjustment 🙂
- What if i wanted to be called 'master'. - depends on the context, but if you really felt you were superior to me then, yeah, I would call you that. Now give him a question about white supremacy or white privilege in the USA and see what he says about that in context to his belief about pronouns. These people literally put no thought into the BS spouting from their mouths.
I'm usually okay with using someone's preferred pronouns, but as someone who teaches writing, I'm a little confused as to why this doesn't extend to other parts of speech. I wouldn't mind having a preferred adjective ("awesome" comes to mind), or a preferred interjection (like "Wow!").
this is just narcissism. no one is obligated to respect you arbitrarily. you don't understand how respect works; you're just making a sound with your mouth because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside to have your ego stroked
the statment "that's the person they are and that will never change". I think one of the main purpose being human is to change, grow up, enhance the quality of our consciousness - whatever that may be. Even in personality psychology, we see that traits are movable within its dimensions. I do hear this claim a lot told as an axiom - an unmovable truth.
This is the most comfortable and peaceful conversation I watched when dealing with opposite opinions regarding gender issue lol… thanks peter for facilitating the wonderful conversation
There are narcissistic people in the world. There are people who get off on excersizing power over others. There are people that would use pronouns to that end. Think of it as an unearned powerup in a video game. There may be people who use pronouns who are genuine, but many others who would weaponise their use. Mutual respect is earned, it's not unilaterally demanded under threat.
So many people stand by what they believe is supposed to be the right answer without actually thinking through the logic of whether it's actually true or not.
I have a duty to respect ¡👉myself👈! FIRST. Respect for others is secondary and MUST be ¡👉EARNED👈! and NOT just freely given.💁♂️ Remember that … Respect is ¡👉NOT👈! the same as politeness.
What a bunch of wishy washy responses. We are not obliged to respect every opinion out there, including pronouns hardly anyone has ever heard. I can go with "he/he/they". I feel no obligation to memorize a different pronoun for everyone I encounter and then try to keep them all straight in my mind.
At age 60, you will get a "Pluck Off", from me US has manly different ethic backgrounds, my wife French/Indian, she speaks English, if she wants to learn her native tongue than the person should seek to speak it. English is the business language of the world, this is why the teach English in most of the world.
What is the genisis of each of all these pronouns - who & where from? And what authority is mandating these pronouns into human existence? Which side of the disagreeing parties is it that does not understand that respect does not mean agreement? And how did we end up with a minuscule of a minuscule portion of the population with mandate, influence and authority to take monopoly on feelings, identities, world perspectives, and universal truths? ....
A third party thinking they have a reservation on how I perceive and rationalise the world just strikes me as rude, presumptive and overstepping the mark. I may make mistakes and i'd always endeavour to correct them but you'd better have something more than 'because I demand it' if you're going to mess with fundamentals such as 'male' & 'female' An individual may feel the need to see themselves in a particular way that requires a certain use of language but i'm under absolutely no obligation to do so.
What do you do when someone sometimes uses He/Him, sometimes She/Her, and sometimes They/Them, and it changes in an instant and you consequently don't know their pronouns at the moment?
My school received an email from someone who is trying to be supportive of preferred pronouns, and then, shortly after we received another email from the same person who was forced to apologize for calling them “preferred pronouns.“ She explain to us in her second apology. Email that pronouns are not preferred, they just are. We also received an email article substantiating the claim. Even when someone is on their side about pronouns, they still take them out. That woman did not work at the school much longer.
![เปิดใจ “ต้นหอม ศกุนตลา” หลังโดนพาดพิงธุรกิจที่เคยทำ และผลกระทบทำถูกปลดฟ้าผ่า! | แฉ 24 ต.ค.67 [2/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vCi5OIqlxaE/mqdefault.jpg)
Though no one stood on the disagree line, it was interesting to have a respectful conversation with those who agreed. That isn't too common around the pronoun/gender discourse.
Pronouns are not "your" words. They are not words you ever use to describe yourself. They are words that other people use about you. So now we have to ask: "Should I have the right to describe you as I see you, or should I have to describe you as you like to be seen?". The answer to this seems obvious, and we know who all this empowers, being forced to comply with a curated self image. Control of speech benefits the powerful and well appointed, not the disenfranchised (and I don't mean "the illuminati" or anything like that). It's not shy teens with blue hair that get empowered, it's the rich and powerful who don't like being talked about in any way other than they think they should be talked about.
I appreciate them looking at it at both ends, nice guys.
@@TyghtAlso Interesting reasoning, until you got to the far-right talk radio conspiracy stuff about a hyper-wealthy/powerful cabal. Enjoy the long weekend!
when would you use pronouns?
I'm not far right, and I never listen to the radio, so I'm not sure about that. I stated that control of speech benefits the powerful, not the disenfranchised (Chomsky, BTW, makes the same points in the same language. I guess he's the next Limbaugh). Nothing was said about "cabal/s". I bow to your greater knowledge of political radio, I suppose. I have edited my comment, for others who might also bring irrelevant assumptions to the table. I hope you have a pleasant month, so there!@@scottsherman5262
The narcissism involved in expecting an entire language to bend to one's woo-woo beliefs is staggering. Further, to be accused of "violence" (as some do) when using the appropriate pronoun is asinine.
and what happens when your pronouns that you expect me to say makes me uncomfortable because I dont agree with your concept? why is my discomfort as the person you want to change they behavior completely meaningless and yours is paramount?
@@Fraggle-h7o Again, see narcissism...
@@Fraggle-h7o exactly, why is "trespassing" against the pronoun person some sort of "cardinal sin" in their eyes. It's as though they think "sure, being 'mean' to someone is bad, but if you're 'mean' to a pronoun person, then it is this profound, earth-shattering, damning sin. It really is like a religion in that they treat it as sacrilege.. you've sinned against the holy lamb. It's very "do you even know who I am".
yeah its weird...like I 100% empathize with transpeople who try to actually transition because they feel like they can't even live in this world at their birth gender/sex. I have massive empathy for them, because I understand their suicide rate as a people is bonkers...but these are people who claim soap/shampoo as real genders and tell us we have to conform and use their nonsense.
no thanks. this is something therapy is required to cure@@chrisalmendra4370
And the narcissism is only further magnified when we consider that the only pronouns in question are the 3rd person pronouns, which are generally used only when the person in question is not even present or, at least, isn't part of the conversation. So they want to control my speech when they're not even around. Narcissism on steroids.
In my last job we had a lot of young clients who insist on various pronouns that I personally found difficult to remember. Looking at a girl and remembering to use male pronouns is more difficult than it sounds and the consequences of getting it wrong were extreme. The extra layer of stress it added to an already difficult job made it untenable for me so I left. It was not worth it. I now have a different client base, none of whom feel the need to demand that I accommodate narcissistic demands.
Pronouns Are Rohypnol. It’s a short, succinct article. Look it up. I no longer play the pronoun game.
In a work situation I would probably use names. The more clunky and awkward the result, the better, because it highlights the stupidity of designer pronouns.
For instance: "Karen is here to pick up Karen's packages which Karen's sister sent to Karen at Karen's house but Karen wasn't at Karen's house yesterday to sign Karen's name, and Karen's packages required Karen's signature."
Good for you. I’m glad you were able to do that.
@@zxyatiywariii8- And watch them lose. thier. shit.
I would maintain the use of actual pronouns. If HR has an issue, I leave. A person is not a they when that person is known. I'm not referring to a female named Chrissy "they." That is she playing mental make-belief in her own mind. The rest of the world need not indulge in it.
The best way to respect someone is to not reinforce their lie.
Eh, how far do you take that? Do you walk up to dudes with hair plugs and say, "Hey baldy!" Do you walk up to women with breast implants and say, "I don't respect the fact that you artificially changed your appearance and will only call you Flat Sam."
People on both sides are too worried about this nonsense. If someone asks me to call them something different than I expected, I may be confused, but I'll call them how they want to be called and move on with my day. Anything else is just inserting meaningless political battles into everyday life which is insanely cringy behavior, and obviously that goes to the people who freak out if you accidentally call them the wrong pronoun before they clarify and ask you to call them something else. If you actually care about this stuff it means you're either too online or too plugged into political propaganda.
@@jorgemartinez42069Nobody is talking about going out of their way to inform people of their delusions. Merely when they are expected to partake in that delusion. It would be disrespectful of me to force my delusions onto you or anyone else. I can't shed my bad ideas if everyone becomes a "yes" man.
@jorgemartinez42069 I disagree with your comparisons. I have never in my life, heard of someone demanding that others recognize their hair plugs as real hair, or a woman with breast augmentation insisting that others recognize her breasts as being natural. Obviously the people playing the pronoun games do that, and insist others participate in their delusion.
It's not that we care too much, it's that we don't care at all. We don't want to be bothered by it, or have anything to do with it. I'm just trying to make it to my final resting place, without being coerced to re-learn the English language, because someone else is playing pretend.
@@jorgemartinez42069 " inserting meaningless political battles into everyday life" No, the people demanding that everyone else pander to their delusions is doing this. Nobody should be expecting others to lie to save their feely weelies. They should stop being victims and get on with their lives, and let the rest of us do likewise.
@@SilverSixpence888 Except I'm sure you pick and choose which lies to play along with all the time to avoid conflict and only choose which ones not to play along with when it's a political battle you've been programmed to fight against by your ingroup's narratives. Your wife asks you if you like her haircut or if she looks good in an outfit. Your friend asks you if you liked their play. Your child asks you if their drawing is good. Your sibling changes their name and asks you to call them their new name.
Why insert a battle into everyday life over gender BS? Just call the other person how they want to be called and move on with your life. If you spend any amount of time getting "in the trenches" of the culture war fighting people on this and making a scene out of something that could just be a basic human interaction before moving on with your life, you are a terminally online loser. That goes to both sides.
Respect cannot be demanded, only earned.
I demand you change your mind about this.
Offense is rarely projected and mostly taken.
Respect is given, as a courtesy or a gift.
@@spiritmatter1553there’s no demanding me to using frog/frogself pronouns, and expecting any respect.
Respect ought to be a default approach... but it cannot be compelled, I agree.
It is utterly shocking that seemingly normal people actually think made up pronouns is anything other than narcissistic and absurd.
Agreed. It's also shocking that seemingly normal people think this is a real issue worth talking about 24/7.
True. But this "respect ALL pronouns" meme is them gifting us a GIANT opportunity to mess with them.... especially for a demographic who have SO MANY no-no words, that they would NEVER want to say in public....
Like, I'm black... and I REALLY want to find out if I can get some super-duper woke white liberal, to address me using the "n-word" as "my pronouns". Full hard-R. I'M not phased by the word... but I suspect most white liberals ARE.
Or, I miss the word "rctard". Maybe it could make a comeback, as an innovative new pronoun?
I wouldn't use slurs AGAINST the type of person in question, like pulling the "rctard" thing, to someone who actually IS disabled would be pretty fvcked-up... But the idea that these words are just INHERENTLY bad, in ANY context, no matter WHO they're directed towards, or for what intent, is bizarre to me.
Like people think the dreaded "n-word" is some magical spell, which, no matter WHAT the context or intent, will just materialise pure racism, out of the ether or something.
But pick ANY goofball word you want; That "respect ALL pronouns" meme is an INVITATION to make people say kooky stuff they don't want to say...
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 I definitely wish the people on the wokescold part of the left weren't so annoying too, but if I don't worry about what people are saying on Twitter and actually think about my real life experience being around other human beings, this problem is basically non-existent. These are pointless battles being fought online mostly to keep people distracted.
I wouldn't be surprised if half of the accounts on social media that are the vocal culture warrior types on both sides of the aisle were bot accounts meant to divide and conquer political discourse, but that may be getting a little too much into unfounded conspiracy thinking.
"Seemingly"
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 how devilish of you bacon! you should come back and let us know if you actually use the N-word when someone asks you your pronouns. 😁
I just don't understand how they can agree when the proposition says always. Agreeing to a proposition that includes always just automatically traps you, you no longer gets to use your own judgement on if it's appropriate for the situation or not, if what becomes a demand comes from someone you don't want to have to obey. What if they change their demand every 30minutes?
To address your question, I don't think they were the sharpest tools in the box to begin with. :)
These gentlemen are talking as if the gender ideology is simply about respect and "you do you and I'll do me".
.
Parents are having their children taken for not using neo pronouns, people are getting fired from their jobs, female athletes are told to shut up complaining about males in the locker room, and people are forced to take sensitivity classes for wrong think.
.
This is beyond respect. This is compel speech. This is indeed being forced on everyone.
I'm polite to everyone, including transpeople, because I'm a decent human being. Trying to force all of us to comply via social pressure and name calling has been a big mistake though, because I won't be bullied. It raises my hackles and guarantees I won't cooperate.
Same!
I'll admit it's a little disconcerting that you summarized, almost word-for-word (excepting "hackles"), what I was thinking while watching this video 😉
It's good to know I'm not alone. @@tompaine4044
00:04:00 all pronouns should be respected, except for many pronouns which are just ridiculous. Very clear, thank you.
Lol. What, you didn’t understand that?
You reject reality and substitute your own.
The guy said don't use animals names as a pronoun because the person is a human not an animal but use a female pronoun if you are a male or male pronoun if female. Dunno how he can't see what he said here.
These guys are morons; They can't even structure a goddam, halfway grammatical sentence. Let alone make any coherent argument.
"It's just like... peep-oh ARE who dey ARE, right?!? And you need to RESPECK that, coz there's also, umm...."
In my culture, (millennial internet troll) one adopts whatever beliefs are necessary to cause the most chaos.
Its important to make sure the people around you won't give you the power to ruin their lives.
Causing chaos is part of the socialist agenda. Blame the chaos on capitalism, seize as much power as possible, and usher in the sexless socialist utopia. No more nuclear families. Loyalty (and dependence) only to the government.
Your mom must be so proud of everything you've accomplished in life!
Next time "what if someone wanted their pronoun to be the n-word".
Them: "uhhhh..."
😂
Yes, you are right
The n-word... the forbidden word... NO? It seems one can't say no without being called a bigot, or worse, these days. I'm a 'big o.t'. (One truth.) I hate the 'my truth' idiocy.
I will not comply with this lunacy. You have a designation, it's your name. You can ask your friends to call you whatever you wish, provided they accept it, but expecting ME, a stranger to you to have to comply? Piss off.
This is a social construct that only a portion of our society agrees upon. So this notion of developing social constructs and demand those who don't even agree with it to comply or else be labeled as a bad person is pure stupidity.
"I strongly agree, because at the end of the day, like, you don't understand, like, what persons go through at the outside of their culture. So you have to understand that where they come from, if there are for who they are - you have to respect them for who they are. That's the person that they are, and that that's never going to change whatsoever." Wow!
The narcissism is nauseating...
Yeah, that was clear as mud.
People dont understand the subtle mechanism behind all this. This is about 3rd person pronouns aka the pronouns you use while talking to a 2nd person when referring to a 3rd person who might or might not be part of the conversation. When they tell you "these are my preferred pronouns", they are policing your language in instances where they might not be present. When person A hears Person B bring up Person C's pronouns, what person A is getting is that Person B is accepting and also pressuring person A to comply as well. It is a combination of social pressure and social acceptance. One solution is to refuse to use preferred pronouns and to start using names instead, you dont need to announce this. Just do it. They will look suspiciously controlling if they start questioning you for using their name instead of their pronouns.
> _"They will look suspiciously controlling if they start questioning you for using their name instead of their pronouns."_
That's a cute idea, but... Have you ever heard the... tragedy of Monica Cellio? I thought not. It's not a a story the SJWs would tell you. It is a StackExchange legend... and it involves that and other clever tricks failing miserably ;).
It's a good point you make, as most of this trans activism is not actually about equal rights, like they pretend.
It's really about control, changing how people think, manipulating people's speech, and redefining language. Not just with regard to pronouns, but all of it - eg. the way they seek to control what people think and the way they silence dissent is authoritarian and would make the CCP proud.
Unfortunately, they appear to be succeeding.
This is an excellent point that I have never heard or thought about before. It makes the whole thing even more delusional than I thought about before. Wanting to police people's speech when it couldn't possibly harm anyone's feelings because they're not around.
Holy shit. That’s right too. I never thought of it like this. Thank you 🙏
@@ConScortisbingoo 💯💯💯💯
Keep it up man, the craziness can't last.
^ first: 🏆
@@miroirs-jumeauxis your boyfriend impressed? Nobody else cares
dont be a douchebag@@xploration1437
@@xploration1437 It's so annoying how lazy humans have become. 20 years ago when we started doing the first comment thing, we came back and edited it into something hilarious or trendy to entertain people. Now they just want their gold star for showing up.
Pronouns are not "your" words. They are not words you ever use to describe yourself. They are words that other people use about you. So now we have to ask: "Should I have the right to describe you as I see you, or should I have to describe you as you like to be seen?". The answer to this seems obvious, and we know who all this empowers, being forced to comply with a curated self image. It's not shy teens with blue hair, it's the rich and powerful who don't like being talked about in any way other than they think they should be talked about.
my pronouns are I/me/Iself.
Rastaman sounding@@DrDeuteron
yeah you're right. like real trans people who have a really hard time being seen as their birth sex who want to be looked at the way they think they really are requesting we use certain pronouns are something I get. I want them to be able to live their lives, but the 'my pronouns are bubble and gum, respect or die' people are silly. its literally appropriation which I thought the left was against.
@@Fraggle-h7oThe worst enemies of actual trans people are the wild-eyed activists and trans-trenders. I wish more of them would come out and disavow these freaks.
the answer is no. holy shit no. omfg fuck no, Michael Scott screaming NO PLEASE GOD NO NOOOOOOO!
We have some really weird ideas about respect. Respect is earned, not given.
I'd say people deserve a level of respect by default. But also that "I respect you to much to respect your ridiculous idea" , as a British journalist said 🙂
@@nefaristo Totally agree. I just feel respect tends to be a one-way street for activists and ideologues. Give ME respect, while I give you none.
@nefaristo
you first tolerate somebody, by default, when you know nothing about them.
And then you learn to respect them.
@@quentinlarrieu1804 i would say that I start with some default respect but, since my definition is more emotional than rational, and I've never rationally understood what respect is🙂 (for people), I might be wrong.
10:55 There isn't "new grammars" in 2023, there's just more people using English grammar incorrectly.
He, she, it. Those are the choices for 3rd person pronouns, anything else is wrong and should not be accepted.
Actually thats not correct. Use “they” as a generic third-person singular pronoun to refer to a person whose gender is unknown or irrelevant to the context of the usage. For example, " The police man asked the boy, "Where did they go?" And the boy replied " They swam across the river under the dim moonlight" .
@@k-lab3824 Nope!
Yes, there are sentences in which it would be normal/natural/reasonable to refer to an individual as "they" but that is not the same as some demented "identify as" demanding you use "they" in place of he or she when anybody who speaks English to any decent level will immediately flag the usage as off, awkward or simply just wrong.
Your example is a perfect example of what I mean "The police man" would only ask a boy "where did they go" if he was asking about multiple people OR if said policeman had been brainwashed by the DEI team to deliberately use English in an abnormal manner out of some absurd need to pander to freaks.
@@annefagit3305Sorry but that's just not true. They and them can be used as singular pronouns. If you take notice you will see that people use it all the time to refer to an individual where their gender is unknown.
For example " the old lady watched "them" cross the street in the dark moonlight. She couldn't tell who the person was or even if "they" were male or female.
I don't use pronouns myself so I'm not defending the whole movement. It's more of a technical point I am making.
@@k-lab3824 Where we agree: there is a time and a place where describing a single person using they or them is ordinary English.
Where we don't agree: therefore anybody who wants to use they/them instead of he/she/him/her is automatically covered even if he or she is obviously using they/them incorrectly to meet some ideological demand.
Great well I'm glad you can see that....
I actually wasn't even talking about my perspective on the whole ideology of pronoun usage.
Pronouns refer to nouns not feelings. You can be a man who claims to "feel like" a woman or a penguin but your pronouns don't change.
I think that makes some good sense, & I tend to agree...however, if I'm face to face with a person who's made it known that they prefer to be referred to as "It", I'm never talking to them. Now, if for some reason I'm forced to talk to them, I would go ahead & say "Hey It, you should stop playing pickle ball now because of the thunderstorm", & then I could go home & talk to my lovely wife about how I called someone It because I'm a super nice guy.
@@scottsherman5262Generally it isn’t even necessary to use a pronoun to refer to a person in their presence. So it’s a matter of being a goodcommrade using the rightwords when the person isn’t even there to feel the violence of the wrongwords. In the end it’s about believing they are actually whatever they say they are.
I feel like a woman, as if I know how a woman can feel. It's ridiculous. I'm not playing this game.
@@PatrykPeylar I'm a woman and it doesn't feel like anything. It's a fact, not a feeling.
I agree... but with one correction. They aren't 'their' pronouns. Nobody owns pronouns. Pronouns are used by other people. And one doesn't and shouldn't own others bodies, words, or beliefs. It is not people's job to affirm others beliefs!
I will use a person's given name & common normal pronouns that we have always used in society
These guys are so open minded that any convictions have spilled out of their heads
I freaking love this comment so darn much...I'm convinced I wrote it. Having said that, my team of lawyers are sending a cease & desist letter at once.
@@scottsherman5262😂
the fringes are weird
'im a snow gender'
cool I buy that
'Hilary is a lizard pretending to be human'
cool I buy that
Yes, that's a good way to put it. It's like they are not just bending the knee, they are bending over. The guy who said he would be willing to call someone "Master" has totally lost the plot and isn't even thinking about what he's saying.
So open minded they can't tolerate objective reality. Yeah, real "open"
Society has taken 'people pleasing' to a whole new level of crazy!🙄🥴🤭😂
This is a modern day Tower of Babel where large groups of people can't communicate. I my experience, people won't even tell you that you have offended them, they just proceed to punish you. For me this has resulted in denial of medical services, cancelling my appointments, & vandalism of my personal property.
I am now a geezer, and this hand wringing seems like madness.
I have twice listened to "The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling." This dogmatic anger is beyond me, directed at someone who clearly expressed her thoughts.
The dismissal of Richard Dawkins by much of the TH-camr atheist crowd is curious to see.
Words like bigot, liar, coward, and transphobe are so loosely tossed about, to label and dismiss a dissenter, the words have lost all meaning.
C'est la vie.
Are you sure they are atheists? I suspect they've adopted the new-age religion of wokeism.
I facepalmed so hard when he said he would refer to someone by the pronoun "master" if asked.
I don't even know how a PRONOUN of "Master" would even work, rather than a name (which is bad enough).
Cyclops: _What's your name?_
Odyssey: My name is *Nobody*
_Who blinded you, my master?_
Cyclops: *Nobody* blinded me.
Yup.
@Peter Boghossian been a pretty big critic of you in the past, though never an antagonist, but I really respect a lot of what you're doing today. You've honed technique in a respectable way. I honestly want to see you take on crazy in a way that isnt politically specific but other than that, im impressed and I wish you a lot of success...
homie thats what he hwas been doing the whole time, what was he doing in the past that you didnt like?
in his old videoes he tended to go harder on the left leaning people and just kinda agree with the right leaning. to be clear I am not saying he is himself rightwing. Just that the dichotomy of his questions lended to him favoring the right-leaning side because his overall goal appears to be to move the Overton window right, owing to the fact that he thinks the left has gone too far. My position is that both the right and left have gone too far and both need to be criticized. I think he is a great potential mover of opinions to the center but that he chooses one side to move and not the other. He asks questions that are hard for liberals much more often than questions hard for conservatives. He is also clear in his podcasts and other material that his goal is to move people away from the wildly far left. My opinion is that he'd serve the country better by moving both the wildly far left and wildly far right closer to center both have gotten wacky and dangerous though not to the same degree. but I mean its hard to manage that and not alienate a potential audience, and he has to worry about that too so I understand its difficult to do the whole 'hey lets talk about the fact that the election was authentic' thing for him atm.
@@AGripOBabys
the president of the United States (trump) claimed the election was rigged and demanded a secretary of state "find" him the exact number of ballots he needed to win or else he would be put in prison and have his career ruined. and that's not 1/10 of the crazy MJG has put out(peach tree dishes and electric burgers). Im sorry, philosophical hand wringing about 'what is a woman uwu' doesn't compare. its dumb but its not on the same planet.@@beowulf_of_wall_st
ffs his dudes literally stormed the capital to prevent the election results and chanted about hanging the vice president. He sat on his hands for an hour and when he finally got off them his speech was 'remember this day'. Holy fuck you're actually pretending that Biden stupidly pretending he doesn't know what equal woman is the bigger offense? on what possible basis
How can you actually pretend the idiotic lefty stuff concerning gender compares in the slightest to the conspiracy rhetorical bullshit that attempted to destroy American democracy?
@@beowulf_of_wall_st- if you think that’s truly the case, then he needs to get started on that ASAP, because the right when bat shit crazy a bit before the left did.
We have high-ranking government officials to prove it .
Seeing this is disturbing: people confusing respect, identity and preference with clear communication and grammar. This is crazy and sad. Pronoun use is up to the speaker. No one gets to choose a pronoun.
Agreed. Is this the failure of their education?
@@manaloola2018
I saw people here who meant well but are incredibly ignorant of language and other things. The "experts" have just remained silent.
Pronoun is up to the speaker? Sweet! I say your pronouns are "phag/got"
thier logic falls apart SO FAST its wild how people believe things SO STRONGLY, yet have not spent a minute actually looking into it
The sad state of 21th century men
Imagine if there is a war and these ppl are called to go fight in it... :DDDDDD
"..for people to evolve."
I would then ask; "Evolution is about getting better - do you think it's okay if the other side doesn't think using every pronoun is evolution, and doing so can have negative affects?"
Just so they can clue-in on an objective truth of what is right/wrong.
Pure insanity.
Evolving into bad grammar and supporting delusions, makes total sense to me. I identify as a three toed sloth and my pronouns are 🤢🤮🤯.
This garbage is exhausting. Those three thought that was a deep meaningful discussion, that is the most concerning part.
If anyone ever asked me to use special language for them the best they would get would be, that person. For example, that person needs to get a grip, or that person needs to leave before I get triggered. Yes I am a snowflake.
5:38 wow so willing to call someone master. I mean he is free to do it, but it just shocked me.
Can't tell if the guy at 6:05 is trolling lol.
If not, that may be the goofiest idea I've ever heard in one of Peter's videos.
Let them eat their own.
not really an option for me because im gay and liberal(like 2002 liberal not modern type liberal). not really interested in being eaten by my own and the only other option seems to be being eaten by not-my-own. What do people like us do?
@@Fraggle-h7o lol! It’s an expression… when the crazy leftists can’t even keep up with their own tenets, they disagree and “eat their own.” Thanks for the laugh!
@MrThankeesai I love your explanation of "like 2002 liberal, not modern type liberal". I'm going to start explaining it exactly that way
id be happy to see that catch on @@TiniestLion
Dang I would love to known where you'll be again there, I would love to experience that conversation.
Hello, class! Today we'll be examining what invertebrate humans look like.
Made me giggle
I’m already upset 0:44 nobody moved to the disagree!
I would so love to participate in one of these exercises. It's so fascinating hearing how people think.
Come to Europe! Would be interesting to compare.
You call that THINKING? I'm not being hyperbolic.
“you have to…” no I do not HAVE TO. Thanks.
If I was there I would move so far right he’d think I was leaving 😂😂😂
Perhaps getting some folks that disagrees so that there is a dialogue would be useful on this subject.
LOL, the fact that we are having this conversation....
Also... respect is earned, not dictated.
How can one expect the world to track one's personal preferences? The world has better things to do. And what could one possibly do to earn the respect of the world?
Does such a one (insisting upon respect for their pronouns) really, in turn, respect everyone in the world? Right, Left, or Center?
If not, those insisting on respect but failing to give it are hypocrites for expecting something from the world that they don't give themselves.
And thus not worthy of respect.
3:55 about the pronouns like frog and stuff the guy on the strongly agree line says: ‘that is not really a gender pronoun and that I don’t really agree on…’ But after realizing he is not consistent when it comes to the line he stands on, he suddenly does… 😂 And later on he even agrees on people giving him pronouns he never asked for himself. My lord, he would even call someone ‘master’ 😂 I mean…really?? No way!
These guys have clearly not thought about this much at all. At the same time, I don't know if english is there first language or not. But these are such messy arguments...
One of them responds to the a question about your neo-pronouns like insect gender by saying, 'Yeah, of course, we're all born human.' For example, when I refer to my cat, I don't say cat/catself... I just say he. Sex applies to animals too. Species =/= gender
You found a real gang of intellectual superheroes for this one I see...
If someone asked me what my pronouns are, I would say - “pick one”. I have no time for this and their argument is never good enough for me to give it the time.
Exactly. I give them James Lindsay's Grey Rock treatment; I shrug disinterestedly and say, "I don't care."
Back in the 1970s, the feminists introduced Ms rather than Mrs. But it didn't replace Miss. For a while, this avid 1970s feminist (myself) used it. All it did was reveal my politics and disrespect my marriage decision. Socially, Miss was for single women, and Ms wasn't used to replace Miss. (Australia) Why didn't this movement invent an agreed gender neutral pronoun and "push" it is beyond me. Oh, that's right, they're not united as a group/movement, and they want to disrupt society etc. "They' was dropped out of the English language (except for specific purpose) about 300 years ago for good reasons. Anyone choosing "they" just indicates a puffed up, multiple personality to me. It is not singular for a known person.
All this stuff depends on the grammar of the language. English uses a pronoun routinely to indicate the grammatical person/ persons performing an action. This is not true of all languages e.g. modern Greek einai means he, she, it or they is/are depending on the context. A pronoun is only used if particular emphasis is required. Why get so exercised about a quirk of grammar? To me its not particularly respectful to refer to a singular person by a plural pronoun and it is sometimes confusing. "It" is at least singular and not sex specific.
They basically said “I don’t believe it but since they do I’ll go along with it out of respect.” Why? Why should we suppress our own beliefs on behalf of someone else’s? It’s so strange how people have conflated respect with spinelessness.
The word I would object to is "always" in the question, “Preferred pronouns should always be respected.” Would these fellows be happy to use the preferred pronouns of a fascist if their choice was extremely offensive?
Dudes literally even contradicted themselves entirely.
To me the important part is whether they ASK or DEMAND.
@@hedgehog1965uk but even if they ask instead of demanding it should be allowed to be able to politely decline. The same way some person might ask someone else to believe in their god. A polite, no thank you, but we can still exist together.
@@jarofawesome4621Yes, I agree. It seems that often it is the virtue signaling TRAs that make the demands, rather than the trans people themselves.
What it does for me is protect me from wasting time talking to someone delusional and not being paid as a therapist. I really don't have time to play this charade with a stranger on the street
short answer..... no.
It's notable that this conversation was calm, thoughtful, and respectful, with no yelling, name-calling, attempts to shut down the conversation due to being triggered or traumatized, etc. Gee, I wonder why?
These are the best conversations.
@@drpeterboghossian I really appreciate the respectful, logical manner in which you encourage people to think through why they believe what they believe. When people hang in there through to the end, it can be quite informative for the conversants themselves and us audience members. Great work, Peter. I imagine it's difficult to get people to see the conversation through - I think of the social work students who spoke to you on campus who cared about "educating you" as opposed to reflecting on their beliefs and arguments for them.
It was respectful because they all essentially agreed to the same frigging b.s.
@@glennanderson8981 I think its was respectful because they all agreed to have the conversation in good faith, regardless of how bs it may have been. Many of the people Peter encounters (I'm thinking mainly woke feminists) are totally unwilling to have the conversation and would rather sabotage it than engage in honest intellectual reflection.
The position of the parties involded influence the intensity of the discussion. The further they are, the harder the discussion is going to be.
Nope, I'll use the person's name but won't go along with that person's delusions!
Growing up in New York, I hung out at gay bars with my roommate, who was gay, while I am not. It was common for everyone to playfully refer to each other as 'girl', a term I didn't mind in that context. As I traveled the country with my band (you can see me in my profile picture), I was occasionally mistaken for a woman, often by waitresses or store clerks but it never bothered me. This current uproar over pronouns and the intense reactions to being misgendered seem crazy to me. I feels like a mental disorder and don't believe we should be so compelled as to alter our everyday way of life because of it. It feels like an unusual cultural shift being imposed on society. I really hope it goes away.
I don't think it's actually much of an uproar in real life. If you get all of your understanding of what real life is by watching it through the internet and media I can see why it would seem that way, but there aren't that many people out there in the real world that actually freak out on you if you accidentally misgender them.
Now if you intentionally keep calling them something they don't want to be called they might get upset, but that would be like if people in your background kept coming up to you after realizing you weren't a woman, rather a dude with long hair, and with disdain and mockery kept saying "What can I get for you, *miss*?" and rolling their eyes.
This whole debate seems like manufactured culture war BS to keep people distracted from real issues to my eyes.
@@jorgemartinez42069 it is an issue and it’s more than just the gender phenomena. It’s the whole woke culture and it’s takeover of our institutions. The gender part is just ridiculousness. It’s ridiculous for the receptionist at the hospital is to ask a giant burly man in his 60s what his pronouns are but that’s what happens. It makes America look like fools. Ze zim and zer sounds like something I would make up as a child just to be annoying. It’s just more of that babying culture that started with millennials and their participation trophies. No one has a spine anymore. The whole focus of our being has been turned inward and as a result people have become self absorbed and over sensitive. Idk. Maybe it’s not as bad as I think but it sure feels like the wrong direction to me.
“Respect who they are and theyre never going to change”. HUH
Imo, people who claim "respect" should be given to everyone, are simply hoping it catches on so they can go through life avoiding accountability.
"My words" are the ones I use, aren't they? My adjectives are the ones that I express, not the ones I'd like others to call me by.
So what's up with this "my pronouns"? Why should they be different?
"Rrespect my pronouns" should actually mean "respect the pronouns that I use", right? It's weird but semantically correct, isn't it?
I ask because I'm Italian so _my_ English might need some adjustment 🙂
- What if i wanted to be called 'master'.
- depends on the context, but if you really felt you were superior to me then, yeah, I would call you that.
Now give him a question about white supremacy or white privilege in the USA and see what he says about that in context to his belief about pronouns.
These people literally put no thought into the BS spouting from their mouths.
I'm usually okay with using someone's preferred pronouns, but as someone who teaches writing, I'm a little confused as to why this doesn't extend to other parts of speech. I wouldn't mind having a preferred adjective ("awesome" comes to mind), or a preferred interjection (like "Wow!").
This is awesome
'axe to be called' what they heck does that mean?
They said strongly agree, the question used the word always, then they say they don't always agree. Goofballs.
Slightly Agree dude's hair was channeling Bill Murray from Kingpin
Peter, you have the patience of a saint
I am genuinely curious as to why people believe what they believe.
@@drpeterboghossian I get that. I just wish they could articulate the reasons behind their beliefs better.
this is just narcissism. no one is obligated to respect you arbitrarily. you don't understand how respect works; you're just making a sound with your mouth because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside to have your ego stroked
WTF? We should be extracting words from Native American languages because they don’t even know their own language? WTF! WTF?
Mentioning "Native American" is adopting pseudo-moralistic stances so that they look good to their friends and their neighbors.
When you’ve become so open minded your brains fall out.
These people don't understand that subjectivity cannot be the mainstay of public discourse.
the statment "that's the person they are and that will never change". I think one of the main purpose being human is to change, grow up, enhance the quality of our consciousness - whatever that may be. Even in personality psychology, we see that traits are movable within its dimensions. I do hear this claim a lot told as an axiom - an unmovable truth.
This is the most comfortable and peaceful conversation I watched when dealing with opposite opinions regarding gender issue lol… thanks peter for facilitating the wonderful conversation
Also because they all basically agree.
It’s nothing but narcissism writ large. And I have no time for narcissists…
I hate when people don't understand what should means and fall back to "it's just my opinion"
Yo, my pronouns are omaiwamoushunderu/omaiwamoushinderuself
But sometimes I might randomly feel like transwomenarentwomen/transwomenarentwomenself
I don't mean to be mean, but these guys don't strike me as the intellectuals of the future. No ability to think rationally at all.
Brilliant example of a healthy and respectful conversation in my opinion.
If you think the people on the disagree line would be "less evolved" then you are implying they are wrong.
I wonder how it works for people who are bilingual. Does their identity change depending on the language they are using?
There are narcissistic people in the world. There are people who get off on excersizing power over others. There are people that would use pronouns to that end. Think of it as an unearned powerup in a video game. There may be people who use pronouns who are genuine, but many others who would weaponise their use. Mutual respect is earned, it's not unilaterally demanded under threat.
I didn't know bundles of sticks that extreme could exist.
Where does he find these individuals
Screaming into the void
What if I use "zir" pronouns and I decide they're unique to me. If someone else uses them have I b suffering damages? Can I sue?
So many people stand by what they believe is supposed to be the right answer without actually thinking through the logic of whether it's actually true or not.
Any time a person says _"I feel like..."_ whether it be a position I am for or against, I just check out. I don't care. End of analysis.
I have a duty to respect ¡👉myself👈! FIRST.
Respect for others is secondary and MUST be ¡👉EARNED👈! and NOT just freely given.💁♂️
Remember that …
Respect is ¡👉NOT👈! the same as politeness.
What a bunch of wishy washy responses. We are not obliged to respect every opinion out there, including pronouns hardly anyone has ever heard. I can go with "he/he/they". I feel no obligation to memorize a different pronoun for everyone I encounter and then try to keep them all straight in my mind.
At age 60, you will get a "Pluck Off", from me US has manly different ethic backgrounds, my wife French/Indian, she speaks English, if she wants to learn her native tongue than the person should seek to speak it. English is the business language of the world, this is why the teach English in most of the world.
What is the genisis of each of all these pronouns - who & where from? And what authority is mandating these pronouns into human existence? Which side of the disagreeing parties is it that does not understand that respect does not mean agreement? And how did we end up with a minuscule of a minuscule portion of the population with mandate, influence and authority to take monopoly on feelings, identities, world perspectives, and universal truths? ....
I respect people enough not to lie to them and indulge in their delusion
A third party thinking they have a reservation on how I perceive and rationalise the world just strikes me as rude, presumptive and overstepping the mark. I may make mistakes and i'd always endeavour to correct them but you'd better have something more than 'because I demand it' if you're going to mess with fundamentals such as 'male' & 'female' An individual may feel the need to see themselves in a particular way that requires a certain use of language but i'm under absolutely no obligation to do so.
Good grief. The mental gymnastics these people go through.
What do you do when someone sometimes uses He/Him, sometimes She/Her, and sometimes They/Them, and it changes in an instant and you consequently don't know their pronouns at the moment?
Don't interact with them?
I m refusing playing pronous game.
Does Logic still exist?
My school received an email from someone who is trying to be supportive of preferred pronouns, and then, shortly after we received another email from the same person who was forced to apologize for calling them “preferred pronouns.“ She explain to us in her second apology. Email that pronouns are not preferred, they just are. We also received an email article substantiating the claim. Even when someone is on their side about pronouns, they still take them out. That woman did not work at the school much longer.