Double Drivetrain Fixed Gear - 2x Freewheels
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ม.ค. 2023
- So I had this random idea the other day, it was to fit two drivetrains on two freewheels to see if it turned fixed. I had no idea if it would work or not but was keen to try it out anyway. Turns out it works! It looks weird, weighs more and is noisier, so no real benefits but an interesting experiment for me nonetheless. Let me know if any of you have ever done this!
T-Shirts & Stickers - www.waveywheelies.com/store
Waveywheelies - กีฬา
Want fixed gear experience without the simplicity and ease of maintenance? DOUBLE FREEWHEEL
🤔
60 more double espressos please.
How many freewheels have you broken?
The most complicated thing about a single speed freewheel is all those tiny balls. It's not a very complex mechanism, nor problematic. Mine are reliable in all sorts of muddy abuse.
Unless you ride off-road lots, (I do) an FG cog OR freewheel rarely fails or requires much attention.
Cheap Chinese freewheels are worthless. They are certainly unreliable. Buy at least an inexpensive Shimano freewheel. White Industries makes probably the best freewheel on earth. It will last at least 10 years of hardcore abuse. My Dos Eno FW is a great investment.
Ok
mtb if using doltrap can it???
this is one of those ideas you only get when high
That's something that only people who get high think.
It's nonsense. I've never used drugs of any kind, never been high, but I have ideas like this all the time. In fact, that's one of the reasons I figure it's better for me not to do drugs.
@@whateverbikes Its a Joke
@@whateverbikes Is there any way you might chill a bit? No one is getting hurt as far as I can tell. Good day
@@wf2197 What makes you think I am not chill? I just don't agree with what he said.
@@rideordie8268 Oh. Haha.
This solves one problem, no more non-drive-side pictures!
I knew there was at least one advantage! Thanks haha
Lowky satisfying how symmetrical it looks!
As an ambidextrous person, I agree :)
A friend of mine built one of these many years ago. He called it the redunda-cycle due to the redundant drive train. Definitely good for a chuckle or two.
Redundant except if the RH drive breaks you have to cycle in reverse
see what you did there
@blankroomsoup
That's where the 2nd chuckle kicks in 🙂
@@blankroomsoup666 I feel like this would honestly be pretty nice if you just made proper parts so one side isn't in reverse, just having a backup chain is totally appealing to me.
You get that sweet freewheel sound. All The Time.
Something I’d thought about but definitely never tried, next can you try riding a bike with both cranks at the same angle instead of 180 apart so I don’t have to try that either? 😅
You'll look like a kangaroo bro 😂
with enough grip it shouldwork even standing
I saw a guy at a halloween ride do that. He was dressed as a kangaroo so it looked like he was jumping. He had to keep pedaling backwards then forwards because he couldnt get enough strength to do a full rotation, and this was on a lower speed social ride.
It worked, but dude looked miserable lol
@@jpstranger5584 That's some extremely creative concept for a halloween costume not gonna lie
@@jpstranger5584 Imagine doing this on a fixed gear with a small gear ratio 😂
sounds like a great way to increase both weight and friction
This is awesome. I've long wanted to build up a left-side-drive fixie purely for the novelty factor, but this takes it to the next level.
left side drive is a common bmx thing.
I remember watching CBC sports about 40 years ago where Jocelyn used cogs on each side, whilst riding a kilo. It was a brilliant idea. Rest in peace Joc. You were an inspiration to us all !
Saves time for the "drive side" photos too 😉
too ??? It´s the one and only advantage !!!
@@klausbrinck2137 by “too” it means accomplishes something other than his initial goal of seeing if it works. Slow down dude… comprehension is important.
@@tbz1551 I understand u, but I insist: Utterly useless, so useless that it´s almost evil, and its only use is to save time for the "drive-side -photos" ;-) ;-) ;-) Would u get deliberately run over by a truck, just to see what happens? No? Then, u also don´t build that abortion, since u already must know what happens. I thought he has some new, never-thought-of-before application for such an, otherwise, abortion, and instead, at the end, I wanted to plug out my eyes... I shouldn´t even be disappointed, cause I clearly should have been smarter...
If you put a crank arm on the wrong side, be sure to threadlock or tack weld the pedal spindle, or it may unscrew while riding. You can weld a small nut to the crank if it's steel, and install a grub screw to keep the pedal spindle.
you created something that was not on goolge! Great job!😀
Nice work, love the lateral thinking + the Malum is a sick frame
I think I see what you did there 🧠
Cheers mate!
Genius! It'll go twice as fast!
If you're set on keeping this, drill out the left crank and helicoil the proper threads in. Also, it'd just be a normal freewheel bike unless you swap them, but for another experiment, ACS makes left hand drive BMX freewheels.
Why do some BMXs have that? Is it for left dominant people?
@@Eduardo_Espinozato my knowledge, it is about which foot is dominant, but not for power transfer. It's for whichever side they're more comfortable doing grinds on so they're not destroying their drivetrain if they miss the pegs
@@deeranfoxworthy6069 I see now, thanks! :)
Before worrying about helicoil, just re-thread with left-hand tap and see what you get. Chances are better than not that you'll have enough threads for secure pedal torque. A framebuilder friend did this multiple times to make left-hand tandem cranks with no issues whatsoever.
@@dudeonbike800 wtf lol do not run a left tap though an already tapped hole... yes the pedal will thread in... no it will not stay in...
Daaaaamnnnn, finalyyyy!! I had these idea for so many years! Can't wait to see the video! 😆
Haha! Hope you enjoyed it!
@@waveywheelies I definitively did! Will yo do a long term review? Just like many guys here in the comments say I wonder how long the left crank's pedal thread will last.
This idea is bonkers. Subbed.
I’d always thought about this, but never attempted it because obviously there’s not really any worthwhile advantage. It does look pretty sick tho, thanks for doing this so that guys like me don’t have to
Check out 'dinglespeed' drivetrains. There is actually good reason for these. My thing is fixed gear trail riding. It's more fun than should be legal!
Also check out retro direct drivetrains. A propeller head's dream.
@RollinRat woah, that's insane, I've always thought people back then came up with this stuff, because they were bored af.
@caluzzucarrazzi5549 haha no worries!
Fixies are all about style, bruh. And Alleycats, lol.
I tried it before two years back I had the same idea but I never finished glad you did man
So that means you probably ran across some post I made about doing a dual chain bike, a few years ago on either BikeForums or RatRodBikes. I still want to build one. Somebody was telling me in my thread I could do exactly like you did, or to some degree, and your build is pretty cool; a free wheel fixie. You actually helped me out on a number of things, for when I can get around to it, 1; I hadn't considered the fact I'd need two rh pedals(surprisingly), 2; that I could use a regular flip flop hub, I thought I'd need this specific BMX hub I found, when I discovered that in the 90s there was a twin drive BMX bike. You just made it easier for me when I can get around to building mine, won't be fixie, but will still be awesome.
Real man of genius, we salute you Mr. Take something easy and make it complicated mad scientist guy
please god I hope this doesn't become a fixed gear trend. wacky idea and so funny that it works so well. Makes sense when you ponder it
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Funny idea! :D you can use different gear ratios on both sides. so pedaling backward would have easier gear or other way around.. maybe for climbing up hills backward.
Or.. left side could have higher gear for braking on longer hills.
I did briefly think of different ratios, but my thoughts were that it might not work. If the LH side was a lower ratio (easier gear) the LH side would want to drive the cranks faster foward that the right side potentially causing some issue or weird chain tensions. Not 100% sure but would have to try it out and see!
Getting chain length and tension might be tricky but in theory a chain tensioner on the RHS, or even wilder the top of the LHS might work?! Please do this!
@@waveywheelies since either side is always freewheeling you shouldn't have any problems running different gear ratios, as long as you sort the chain tension. A tiny chainring and massive freewheel on the left would translate to high leverage on the wheel for very low effort, easy on the knees braking.
@@VyantQuijt Right 52-16
Left 52-24 are they going to work ?
@@samsonsclan7439 I wouldn't know, man. I was thinking more along the lines of a 1:1 ratio on the left for the braking. Only concern for chain tension is that the sprocket centre distance for either of your selected ratios is near enough the same, so you don't end up with one overly tight or slack chain.
I'm sure there's some calculators for that online
Creative!! Very Mad Max like. Well executed with excellent video/audio. Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the nice feedback. Much appreciated ✌️
Good concept , could possibly reduce chain stretch as apposed to a single chain fixie , looks a little funkie but so does my left side drive fixie , keep up the great work and videos 👍
Cheers mate! It definitely looks a little funkie but was fun to try out! Thanks for the support🙏
When pedaling forward, only one Freewheel will be engaged. when pedaling backwards, only the other Freewheel will be engaged. as long as you don't ride forward and backward for an equal amount of time, you won't have this advantage. it looks cool though.
What a load of bollocks
Is it shite
@@levrider9558 Sometimes the cool factor is all that matters... especially with fixies.
The duel cranks look cool, especially looking through the side as the pentagonal fixings are opposite phases
Good Idea, good job,and good looking man. Nice to see,and thanks for sharing. it gives some good inspiration.
Mad scientist stuff! Nect up, retro direct build
This is absolutely ridiculous and I love it!!
Haha yeah it is an odd one! Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
So u ended up getting rid of the coast function of a freewheel?
Effectively yep!
great setup 😍
Smack on a left hand side drive train next, love the vids man keep em coming
Thanks mate! Sweet idea, I’ll definitely try that out at some point!
I am glad someone did this.
As a 25 year veteran bike mechanic I have wanted to try this. Obviously not bad enough to do it...but still.
Haha happy to help! Got anymore weird ideas for me to try?
the only actual benefit I could think of, would be,
that this setup - in theory - completely cancels out the bending moments on the axle created by the chain under load,
but I guess we can safely assume, that those bending moments are nothing the axle couldn't handle
Mind blowing
I was so hoping it would be like a sweet spot where you can coast. But I love this
Yeah that would be cool. Glad you liked it!
Nice Try! I hope this set up goes well with Mid Drive Motor without Peddles. Keep It Up Bro!
Used to have something similar on my Old specialized brand bmx. both hub sides had threads on them, so i fitted an additional sprocket + left hand drive freewheel on.
fixed all my issues with chainstrech and "uneven" paddlepressure
Fixed gear without the simplicity, fixie hubs without the robustness, double the weight and complexity with no redundancy. If one of those chain snaps are one of those free Wheels dies you are hosed.
I love it.
I need to try this set up with mixed gear ratios for dem sick skidz!
dude i had the same idea extacly 2 weeks ago and now it pops up randomly on my feed..... they are listening ^^
Finally my old thought bike idea have finally come true😁😁.
🙌
problems inherently are the +-slop ( which is why the chains were weirdly loose ), and also the reverse-reverse thread that will slowly unthread the pedals lol sick regardless
Cool set up, who knew that it had been done before! A frame had a chain stay so
short that the bottom bracket would have rubbed the rear tire so they split the frame
for clearance and had to use two chain rings and cranks just like your set up! Look it
up in Vintage Bikes.
Looks cool! It does violate one fixie rule; keep things as light as possible. As far a engineering goes it is redundant. Interesting experiment.
I wonder if this could be me made lighter, for a certain application. 🤔
You have to make it so it has an easier gear ratio in reverse, it would mean easier braking!
Nah, in order to tension the chain correctly they need to be the same length
@@jonasmeiner5007 the chain doesn't need to be perfectly tight, you can get it about right with a little luck by taking links out of the chain, and trying different combos of gears. A little slack in the chain is common on fixed gears and single speeds. It would likely mean one freewheel is always racheting, which would be a little fun.
@@koos42 chain tensioners could work too
maybe getting the left freewheels tension correct then using a tensioner on the right to take up the slack
To all the people hating in the comments there's 0 benefit to a regular fixie... But its kinda cool
Lots of track racers would disagree. A fixed gear may not be practical for your style of riding.
I love mine. I've got a dozen custom built bikes. MTBs, 'cross/gravel bikes, SS 'cross and rigid SS MTB. A monster cross, loaded touring, bike packing and road race bikes. All built by me for a purpose. My 'Crossafix' is my favorite most used bike out of all of them.
In fact, youre not allowed to ride on a velodrome without fixed gear or with brakes installed.So there is indeed a legit purpose for fixed gear.
I'm skeptical about a double drivetrain set up compared to fixed. It's not mechanically logical, cool tinkering is pretty fun though. But I'll reserve my judgement until I've tried this out.
To all those who've never ridden a fixed gear, (or SS) try it out first before you hate on it. Then you'll have some real world experience.
Sure, fixing certainly is not suited for everyone. You're going to need to learn to suffer and find new personal limits. This is what improvement requires. Learning to push yourself, exceeding your limits, Suffering and recovery is what going faster on bicycles is ALL about.
Same goes for SS. Lots of folks critisize SS but will never EVER try to ride one. 'It's gotta be just impossible!' So they never even try! They're just too lazy. And that's OK! To each his/her own. But Talk about the power of positive thinking.... To declare something's impossible but never even make an attempt?
A fixed gear is more mechanically efficient. More efficient regarding input and output. There's less energy lost thru drivetrain loss. There's also energy stored in the inertia of the spinning wheels and drivetrain in motion. But you'd never realize it until you experienced it and actually tried.
Fixed gear is as simple and most reliable mechanically as it gets. Far less moving parts to fail or maintain on a fixed gear. Its by far the most affordable drivetrain. It's tried, true and proven for well over a century.
A fixed gear will very naturally and automatically FORCE you to learn to pedal CORRECTLY, in circles. The French have a word for this, 'souplesse'. THIS is what makes fixing an excellent training tool.
A fixed gear will build leg muscles you never knew you had, also builds extra stamina and explosiveness in acceleration.
A fixed gear is a more efficient workout (you work harder in a shorter amount of time) and will keep you warmer in winter due to pedaling always. Pedaling always has lots of interesting benefits. When you force yourself out of your comfort zone, you get a training effect and get stronger with improved skills.
A fixed gear allows you to control speed and sense traction through your feet. The bicycle literally becomes an extension of your body if you're using pedal retention.
I ride a fixed gear cyclocross bike off-road all winter, every winter and for everyday commuting, training and local trails. I can ride it in mountains and in technical rocky singletrack. I do fixed gear centuries every year and I'm 61 years young.
Lots of pro roadies trained fixed in the winter back in the day. I trained for road racing with fixed gears for many years.
Fixed gear off-road is more fun than should be legal. It makes me feel like a little kid again.
The very most difficult thing about riding SS, is conquering your fear and the negativity of your mind. Stop the 'I can't' mindset. The question is 'DO or don't?' Not 'can or can't'. It's actually an incredibly simple problem to solve, it's just not 'easy'. Nothing truly good truly comes easy....
Some said it wasn't possible. Wavy made it possible.
Such a Kool idea!
An interesting experiment. The left pedal will definitely twist off the connecting rod during the trip.
I wonder what a mixed ratio setup would do. Maybe let you have different ratios forward vs backwards?
I guess it would block itself or snap a chain. Reversing wheel itself engage any freewheel. Lets say forward ratio is 2:1 and reverse is 1:1 ratio. Going forward is then impossible. While at reverse crank chain ring make 1 rotation, freewheel make 1 rotations, wheel itself make 1 rotation AND reversed forward freewheel makes 2 rotations(it wont engage because wheel is slower than it). And when we try to pedal forward. Chain ring try to make 1 rotation, freewheel tries to make 2 rotations and wheel itself is trying to do 2 rotations AND THEY CANT because they are stopped by slow freewheel that is doing only 1 rotation just like the chain ring itself. Its going to get stuck on itself because wheel cant go faster than reversing low gear ratio. Oh what a BRAIN EXERCISE!
Definitely an interesting experiment. I'm struggling to understand how this is different from a fixie - apart from being more mechanically complex.
Если бы было 2 fix звезды, то нагрузка распределялась на них равномерно. А так,я тоже не понял, кроме симметрии
it isnt lol
its just a more complex fixie for the novelty
Pretty cool I remember that same set up back in the late 70s early 80s it was called Clem twin cranks n hub used on bmx bikes
I've been thinking about this for yeas thanks for doing this
No worries, happy to help! Got any other ideas I should try? Haha
You can do this entire thing in a single pedal axis- without the additional chain. Each pedal would be directly engaged with a freewheel which then would engage with the chained sprocket to a fixed sprocket on the wheel
Never thought about double drive train but I did thought about installing the drivetrain on the left side on my fixed gear everyday bike
if you had different gear ratios, could it give you a lower gear when breaking or going backwards? could be interesting!
i really wanna see this too!
So like a fixed gear bike but twice the weight 🙄😂
A solution developed from no problem
Yep exactly haha!
Pretty cool that you tried this! I welded a freewheel once to build a fixed gear.
Whats next? Retro direct? 😉
Cheers! Yeah retro direct does look pretty interesting, I think I’ll have to try it out as some stage
Looks cool if nothing else👍
This video got me thinking and if you used a left LHD BMX crank and a right RHD BMX crank then you wouldn't have the problem of the pedal backing off.
WOT in tarnation?! Good job though and it looks surprisingly good. You may just have started a new trend lol
Nice idea🔥
Cheers! Thanks for watching✌️
With three freewheels you'll get forward reverse and neutral (neutral is when two of three line up in the reverse direction of the other, so it works in both directions - technically you get *two* "neutrals" but since they're both neutral it seems like one).
You could also use a *unicycle* geared hub, which has freewheel/lock options as well as heel operated gear shift options.
wow there are geared unicycle hubs? that is sick
you should try to make the reverse freewheel a lower gear ratio than the forward one, you'd be able to reach higher top speeds while being able to skid more easily (or am I wrong? this is all mental anyway haha)
That is correct...main thing to figure out would be chain tension. You'll have to fine gear ratios that have the same chain tension or very close cause different gear ratios will have different axle to bb distance.
@DaBinChe
I wonder if a math formula could be made to find the distance between the center of the 2 cog/chainring. 🤔
Maybe we can generalize that similar ones are slack & vise versa
I did briefly think of this but wasn’t sure it would work, my thoughts were that if the LH ratio was lower the LH free wheel would want to rotate faster foward than the RH side, causing some kind of issue, so I’m not sure the chain tensions would work. Maybe I should try it out and see
@@waveywheelies well we're all thinking it now haha, maybe a part 2 video idea?
I'll give you points for a cool look.
I checked the Velominati and it would appear that you haven't broken any rules
one problem you might face in the longer run is that the left pedal might be come unscrewed since it now has the wrong thread direction for the non drive side. This is a common problem on unicycles when riders don't watch out and always use the same side to go forward. (the saddle can be rotated by 180 deg and hence it is not always immediately obvious which is the correct direction) .
Yep definitely! Interesting about the unicycle, never thought of that
Lockring from bottom brackets will match the freewheel thread so you could create double fixed system
Double chain bike could be a good idea for making the bike walking front or backwards, depending the way the pedals are moved. Interesting idea for mounting a bike for rail track configuration.
Have people never considered why we have left and right threads on pedals. The reason they are like that is so that if the pedal bearing locks up then the pedal will unwind on its thread while you are pedaling forwards. So to say that the left hand pedal will gradually come loose is incorrect as any binding in the axle will cause it to tighten not loosen. If anything the right hand pedal should loosen!
So on a normal bike both pedals should gradually come undone but this will only happen if an axle binds up so consider this as a safety feature built into your bike.
Next time you take off a pedal hold your peddle spanner horizontal and rotate the crank in the forward direction using the spanner and surprise surprise your pedal will come off.
Great way to staim both my legs with chain grease when commuting 😊
how did you get a hub threaded both sides to fit both freewheels? did you modify the hub? most are smooth on the non drive side.
Great experiment!! 🔥 May I know what size your bottom bracket my brother?
Everyone expects flying cars, but they get a much better one - double drivetrain bicycles
Super cool!
Cheers!
Kinda nuts. I once built a retro directe' drivetrain. Pedal forward in one gear and pedal backwards for the second gear. Google it ,it's odd but fun to ride once you get used to pedalling backwards. I have a short youtube video of it
Oh that sounds cool! I think I’ve heard of that before, I’ll check out your video! Sounds like something I should try out
Retro direct is pretty cool. My boss built one. Check out 'dinglespeeds'. That's what I use for fixed gear off-road. Much simpler and more reliable.
So creative...👌👌👍👍👍😍😍😍😊😊
Probably been suggested but a tandem crankset would allow you to have double chainrings and correctly threaded pedals.
Yeah great call, that would solve the issue!
Ah, yes. Now I can get my trousers dirty evenly!
Congratulations you have invented the double flywheel
😮
well-done..
THIS is what I like
As an engineer, i like the symmetrical loading of the drivetrain... That this is sadly missing out on because of the freewheels 😂 jokes aside, different gearing for backwards and forwards would actually be interesting. Maybe you can find a cog large enough that it compensates the 2 added links exactly so the rear wheel is in straight?
Would this work with two fixed gear cogs at the back?
It could be handy if riding break less and you snap one chain. 😁
That's pretty cool
Bro how do you torque up your bb without slipping or bracing the bb tool with your palm? You’re a master!
Love it!
Cheers!
Bellissimo!
Always wanted to do this but with track cogs
If you used free coasters would you be able to ride and “break” like a fixie but coast when you aren’t pedaling?
Yep!
is the thread on the usually non drive side the wrong way...meaning if you use it to brake hard itll untighten the freewheel?
so good
Okay but could it be possible to gear both of them with rear derailleur? Out of curiosity more than anything, but the ability to change your gear for both reversing and going forward.
2 freewheel create fixedgear..this is BALLERR
Haha cheers!
I always wanted to know if using a double drivetrain means you are putting more force in the wheel and thus you can have a higher top speed in the flats.
Also, was going uphill any easier with this setup?
wut
Definatly no extra mech advantage, on every bike both feed impact the drive train no matter on wich side(s) they are... Or do you have ever seen a freewheel that only sets free one of the crank arms?
This set up is actually significantly less efficient for very little logical reason. IMO. Unless you just ride backwards 1/2 the day, maybe.
I can ride backwards on a fixed gear a little bit, (that's actually MORE efficient) but looking where I'm going is much more efficient when I'm just trying to get where I'm going.
Bicycles were intended to be efficient affordable transportation. That's the role they fit the best.
If you really wanna ride tricks, get a freakin trials bike.
That's a cool question, but i think there would be extra friction, i think track ppl would benefit from this tho 🙂
Literally double the drive train resistance and nothing else what are you on about bruv
Would this make one wheel go slower than the other going around a corner on a trike? Seems like it would possibly
I was thinking about this concept except would it be possible to have both of them free will the same way and hook a electric motor up to one and your petals up to the other side so you can operate your bike like a regular bicycle and when you’re not using the motor it would free wheel and not spin the motor?
oooh, what if you did this but you had different sized front sprockets, effectively creating a fixie with different gear ratios when you're going forwards vs. backwards?