You should add paypal account also. With paypal viewers can make one time non-recurring donations. I know video producers like recurring, but it would serve you well to offer both.
Jeremy from Simple Little Life rubs his SS blade down with baby powder prior to heat treat in SS pouch. He has a recent video on making a kitchen knife. You both do great work!
That is the trick a lot of knifemakers don't know about. Yet the manufacturers of heat treating foil have been giving that advice to tool and die makers for years.
Your kidding love to know how to heat treat stainless is one of the best things to know :) Good music by the way. Did the oil quench one show hardness at the tip as it did cool down quite a bit. Interesting that it hardened in oil, seems like a good way to go if you have no aluminium plates just for ease of use. could you have quenched the oil one without taking of the foil like you did with the plates? Does the aluminum quench it faster than steel plates? Can you use alu foil to exclude oxygen? Sorry for all the questions. Would love to know.
Thanks!!! Hardness is within 5 Rc across the blade, might be slightly less but I can't tell. I can't without taking foil off because I feel like foil doesn't have a perfect contact to the knife so it can't take heat out fast enough. Like a steam jacket you know? Yes aluminum is faster for sure than steel to transfer heat, that's why heatsink are made of alu or copper I think :) No you can't use alu foil because it would melt at 660°C or so! Thank you again!
This was very interesting to me. But I'm starting to make my own knives. I made myself a little plate quench vise thing (1 inch thick aluminum plates drilled and tapped in a woodworking vise) I can't wait to try it out.
great test! kinda give me some insight of what to do to harden my SS blade in the future, but I kinda not quite satisfied with the result bcs I feel like the test on the oil quenching is not done well, I mean, how if the foils was completely removed before quenching? or how if the foil just quenched along with the SS blade without removing it at all? idk if it's just me who already familiar with the oil quenching and expect better result with it but i think oil quenching should be able to do better, haha
Im thinking you dont need those hinges on the plates. just add another clamp, then you dont have to worry about blade thickness.. also do you think the extra time it took to remove the foil influenced the treatment? Im sure the heat dropped quite a bit before hitting the oil.. I know Cold Steel has a method for oil treatment in cold oil and they have amazing heat treated blades..
I like them a lot! The hardness gap may be too wide for some but for me and just to have an idea works great. Bought mine directly from Japan for around 100€ including shipping and vat so not too bad! :)
I've seen a view old timers use whiteout when they dont want 2 metals to bond while heat treating. I think it's the zinc in the white out. Not too sure on the element that gives the feature. I cant remember.
id not heard of this, does this also have advantages for carbon steels too? i see it prevents the warping (sorry, i know little, i only get it from 'forged in fire')
Jusb1066 I have not used plates to quench. However. Certain steels will do better in oil since it is very fast quenching. Warping can occur of course avoiding it more often requires making the knife thick enough to handle the thermal shock without deflection. Most people move on to High Temp Salt baths so that they can control the quench better and avoid warping. The salts baths are quite neat and very effective. Stainless is a miserable steel to deal with from my perspective however due to most customers being unwilling to maintain their knives ( ie oiling them) its what is often used. It also tends to case harden more than through hardening. Hate the stuff. Stainless for bolsters and harleys not blades lol.
Black Beard Projects A1 steel could be plate hardened. Any W or O steels cant. A1 is an air hardening steel. Never used it myself. Damascus or 01 for me. Only use W grade steels for burnishers and gem setting tools.
Heating the oil prevents excessive thermal-shock which can cause stress cracks. Even non-stainless steels call for a heated oil. The oil for stainless needs to be less than 125 deg. F and for non-stainless grades around 175-185 deg. F
Hey, i have some stainless steel and want to use it for my first knife. What happens when i heat treat it without the foil like a knife with high carbon?
Can you not just quench with the foil on and move it round enough to push it against the blade ? That would still take the heat out? Or use a oil on blade to vapour off during heat treatment and do what the paper was ment to do?
Did you ever figure out how to not get the foil to stick? Just wonder if your supposed to leave it on then just grind it off, wouldn't take much to remove foil
Test it without taking off the foil or maybe tear it a little from few places before submerging it to the oil as a package. I have heard that some people have tried it and it should work.
Right! I think the colored lines are where the foil was not in contact with the bevels. You can see them in black while I place the blade between the plates if you stop the right frame :)
Hey great video, i guess it depends on how hard, or fragile you want the blade. Was there a right or wrong way with the foil. Learned about plate quenching and that SS needs to be wrapped in foil!!
Salve innanzitutto grazie per i tuoi splendidi video sei davvero geniale!!! Mi farebbe piacere sapere, se è possibile, la lega dell'alluminio che utilizzi. Sul web leggendo tra i vari siti, ho appreso che l'alluminio al 99% dissipa meglio il calore. Ma online ho trovato spessori dai 20 ai 40 mm solo per particolari leghe tipo la serie 5000, 6000 o 7000 (dette commercialmente anche paralluman, anticorodal, o ergal) potrebbero andare bene per tale scopo??? Te ne sarei infinitamente grato!!! Grazie mille e scusa il distrurbo!!! Continua così....
Hello This channel is very crazy, I intend to assemble my cutlery in this style soon. How about you hear a way to build a tempering and tempering station all inside a vacuum chamber? Does slow metal cooling at room temperature decrease its degree of hardness? Why, for example, if you built a furnace to temper and revenge in a negative pressure environment and after reaching the desired temperature let everything cool slowly ??? regards
No idea :) Freezer go down to what -20°C? Would be interesting to know if it makes any difference with a blade at 1050°C. I guess it can if the plates are big enough!
Okay but they look like chef's knives, so don't throw away the one that's around 55HRC, use it in your own kitchen! ;) 👍 Ideally you want it a bit harder, but some German chef's knives come in at 56HRC. Or re-heat-treat it, it's not like that hasn't happened before to anyone, *cough, cough* lol!
Dust your blade liberally with pure talcum powder (no scents or cornstarch added) or aluminum oxide powder..this will prevent the sticking, which is actually the foil welding itself to the steel in spots. The manufacturers of the foil give this advice on their websites.
Thanks for sharing! This was very interesting. My fear with the aluminum plate is that the edge of the blade might not be in contact on both sides with the plate and might not get as hard. After using it, do you think that is the case?
Thank you for watching! :) The harness files can't feel any differene in the blade from tip to bevels. But it might be within 5 Rc. Anyway I blasted air directly into the edge as soon as I closed the plates hoping to make that as hard as possible
You aren't giving the oil quench a fair chance. Your foil welded to the steel because you did not dust it with either aluminum oxide powder, or pure talcum powder. Your oil quench pot needs to be much larger as well, large enough to really immerse the blade and allow you to move it constantly while quenching, into "fresh" oil. The temperature of the oil needs to be less than 125 degrees F. when you quench, I go for around 110 deg. F. Make those changes and give it a try and you may not go back to the plates again.
This is the first of your videos I have watched but it won't be the last! Where do you get the Rockwell test files? I can get a pretty close estimate by feel; I've been making knives and other edged weapons since 1990
I don't understand how oil quenching made a high-hardenability, air-cooled (even slower) stainless end up softer than air cooling. I understand the warping, but not the failure to harden.
You can, Eddie. The manufacturers of the heat treat foil say you can, in fact. What the guy didn't know is that you need to dust the blade before wrapping with aluminum oxide powder or pure talcum powder and wrap tightly. The powder prevents the welding of the foil to the blade and the tight wrap allows the blade to cool rapidly and evenly. This guy didn't give oil quench a fair chance. If you make blades with a flat for guards and the blade tapers in both directions from that flat, one direction for the tapered tang and the other for the natural taper of the grind to the point, the only point of contact with the plates will be the flat..I find the oil quench a better method when properly done. Also, you need a quenching pot with enough oil to completely immerse the blade and allow for some movement around in the oil while the quench occurs.
If you like what I do consider supporting me on Patreon so I can keep making videos!
Many more voice-overs there:
www.patreon.com/blackbeardprojects
You should add paypal account also. With paypal viewers can make one time non-recurring donations.
I know video producers like recurring, but it would serve you well to offer both.
Graph Guy are you going to make a one time non-reoccurring PayPal donation to this channel?, good on you bro that's very commendable
Thank you for asking! I don't know, I like patreon because I can give something back like early access and voice overs you know?
Head over to the Website, check the Shop section and order a pack of Stickers. Win-Win.
Just a Tip and only for a Minute..
@@BlackBeardProjects I have 1.4301 stainless steel what temperature can you harden at?
I love how organized your workshop looks, very professional.
Mi sembrava avessi un accento italiano guardo nelle info ed sei italiano complimenti adoro i tuoi video li guarderei per ore ed ore
Jeremy from Simple Little Life rubs his SS blade down with baby powder prior to heat treat in SS pouch. He has a recent video on making a kitchen knife. You both do great work!
That is the trick a lot of knifemakers don't know about. Yet the manufacturers of heat treating foil have been giving that advice to tool and die makers for years.
Thank you for keeping this clean and easy to follow, I am here to learn some things about plate quenching.
Been subscribed for a long time. I was just thinking about trying stainless and was looking heat treating info. Good info thanks.
Nice work mate cool looking blades and a very informative video 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks brother! :)
That is really cool man, I had never seen plate quenching before but aluminum makes a lot of sense for the purpose.
Thanks a lot! I was searching for this information a lot and you helped me with it) Thank you! Good luck in our new projects 👍
Thanks for showing the process. That was very informative.
Your kidding love to know how to heat treat stainless is one of the best things to know :) Good music by the way. Did the oil quench one show hardness at the tip as it did cool down quite a bit. Interesting that it hardened in oil, seems like a good way to go if you have no aluminium plates just for ease of use. could you have quenched the oil one without taking of the foil like you did with the plates? Does the aluminum quench it faster than steel plates? Can you use alu foil to exclude oxygen? Sorry for all the questions. Would love to know.
Thanks!!!
Hardness is within 5 Rc across the blade, might be slightly less but I can't tell. I can't without taking foil off because I feel like foil doesn't have a perfect contact to the knife so it can't take heat out fast enough. Like a steam jacket you know?
Yes aluminum is faster for sure than steel to transfer heat, that's why heatsink are made of alu or copper I think :)
No you can't use alu foil because it would melt at 660°C or so!
Thank you again!
This was very interesting to me. But I'm starting to make my own knives. I made myself a little plate quench vise thing (1 inch thick aluminum plates drilled and tapped in a woodworking vise) I can't wait to try it out.
Bel video, qualche dritta serve sempre quindi continua pure con questo genere di video. Good Job!
Haha your channel is going bananas 😉 cool BB
I'll buy one of those awesome black simple Tees one day! Love your work, mate!
I wonder why take the sheet off the oil quenched one, why not later so it quenches faster ? For shorter less likely to warp blades at least?
6:59 Tempering an AK receiver?
I like your hardning test files!
Thanks for the video.
Thank you, this saves me alot of trouble 😃
great test! kinda give me some insight of what to do to harden my SS blade in the future,
but I kinda not quite satisfied with the result bcs I feel like the test on the oil quenching is not done well,
I mean, how if the foils was completely removed before quenching? or how if the foil just quenched along with the SS blade without removing it at all? idk if it's just me who already familiar with the oil quenching and expect better result with it but i think oil quenching should be able to do better, haha
thanks for that I didn't know what plate quenching was.
Pretty cool! I've never seen the plate trick before.
After this process, does the stainless steel get rust? Or still maintain its anti-rust feature?
Im thinking you dont need those hinges on the plates. just add another clamp, then you dont have to worry about blade thickness.. also do you think the extra time it took to remove the foil influenced the treatment? Im sure the heat dropped quite a bit before hitting the oil.. I know Cold Steel has a method for oil treatment in cold oil and they have amazing heat treated blades..
Thanks for this. Is this similar to 304 SS?
How do you like those files? I guess as long as they are consistently harder from 40-65 you'll know how hard one blade is compared to the next.
I like them a lot! The hardness gap may be too wide for some but for me and just to have an idea works great. Bought mine directly from Japan for around 100€ including shipping and vat so not too bad! :)
This guy is awesome
How much fire do you use in baking? How long does it take to bake
I've seen a view old timers use whiteout when they dont want 2 metals to bond while heat treating. I think it's the zinc in the white out. Not too sure on the element that gives the feature. I cant remember.
Very interesting! Good video mate!
Thanks!!!
Is this stainless steel 316 ? ....can we do heat treatment and tempering on two different day ?
May-ooo
! Daylight come and we drop the bomb !
You may already know this, but I recently found that foil comes in different temperature grades, maybe why it stuck?
I did not notice a cryo cycle like i e seen on other videos out there. Is that only needed for certain steels?
late reply but cryo cycle is not "required" for any steel but it gives aprox. 3 rc more hardness on certain steels
id not heard of this, does this also have advantages for carbon steels too? i see it prevents the warping (sorry, i know little, i only get it from 'forged in fire')
Jusb1066 I have not used plates to quench. However. Certain steels will do better in oil since it is very fast quenching. Warping can occur of course avoiding it more often requires making the knife thick enough to handle the thermal shock without deflection. Most people move on to High Temp Salt baths so that they can control the quench better and avoid warping. The salts baths are quite neat and very effective. Stainless is a miserable steel to deal with from my perspective however due to most customers being unwilling to maintain their knives ( ie oiling them) its what is often used. It also tends to case harden more than through hardening. Hate the stuff. Stainless for bolsters and harleys not blades lol.
As far as I know high carbon steels can't be plate quenched as they need to cool faster to harden :)
Black Beard Projects A1 steel could be plate hardened. Any W or O steels cant. A1 is an air hardening steel. Never used it myself. Damascus or 01 for me. Only use W grade steels for burnishers and gem setting tools.
Eu sou brasileiro mais gosto muito do canal
Lots of information brotha, love the clamp and looking forward to the upgrade. 👊👊👊
Thank you my friend! :)
i've never understood the point of heating up the oil, does it cool faster if it's warm ? or are you actually trying to slow down the cooling ?
Heating the oil prevents excessive thermal-shock which can cause stress cracks. Even non-stainless steels call for a heated oil. The oil for stainless needs to be less than 125 deg. F and for non-stainless grades around 175-185 deg. F
Hello, I would like to know where you bought the hardness test. Thank you
big thumbs up ,love your channel
Hey, i have some stainless steel and want to use it for my first knife. What happens when i heat treat it without the foil like a knife with high carbon?
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong but heat treating stainless without the foil will decarburize the knife and it won’t be able to fully harden
Can you not just quench with the foil on and move it round enough to push it against the blade ? That would still take the heat out? Or use a oil on blade to vapour off during heat treatment and do what the paper was ment to do?
Did you ever figure out how to not get the foil to stick? Just wonder if your supposed to leave it on then just grind it off, wouldn't take much to remove foil
Very interesting. Does the foil keep scale off?
Thanks! Yes
Test it without taking off the foil or maybe tear it a little from few places before submerging it to the oil as a package. I have heard that some people have tried it and it should work.
You should build a homemade simple power hammer
Very nice
thanks mate, saved me some hassle
Parabéns pelo o trabalho 😎
You should make video with making and heattreating titanium knife or blade etc.
Lots of good info thanks!
Are you talking Fahrenheit or Celsius temperature?
Ciao complimenti per il canale!! Puoi suggerirmi dove posso trovare il set di lime che usi per testare la durezza del acciaio???
Marco Cavallin amazon?🤔
raulduke85
Purtroppo no
Grazie! Prese su ebay .com direttamente dal Giappone. 100€ comprese spedizione e tasse.
Black Beard Projects grazie mille
Can we use another metal used instead of aluminium
good job
And it's not as messy
Was the the 2 lines you see from you blowing air on it?
Right! I think the colored lines are where the foil was not in contact with the bevels. You can see them in black while I place the blade between the plates if you stop the right frame :)
Damn I wish I had a kick ass beard
Great test thanks
Please tell us is this plate quecnching working with Damascus and carbon steels too I sometimes get wobbling blades
As far as I know high carbon steels can't be plate quenched as they need to cool faster to harden. But I never tried! :')
Black Beard Projects thank you very much for the quick answer. I sometimes get wobbling blades especially long an thin are troublesome.
Hey great video, i guess it depends on how hard, or fragile you want the blade. Was there a right or wrong way with the foil. Learned about plate quenching and that SS needs to be wrapped in foil!!
Thanks mate! I don't know :')
I have a piston and connecting rod from the Snap On Tools Top Fuel Dragster I'd like to turn into a knife. I just need to figure out how to do it.
NICE .... LOVE THAT PROJECT ....!!! YEA ITS DIFFERENT ....!
Thanks for sharing!
where you bought those files you use to test the hcr
Salve innanzitutto grazie per i tuoi splendidi video sei davvero geniale!!!
Mi farebbe piacere sapere, se è possibile, la lega dell'alluminio che utilizzi. Sul web leggendo tra i vari siti, ho appreso che l'alluminio al 99% dissipa meglio il calore. Ma online ho trovato spessori dai 20 ai 40 mm solo per particolari leghe tipo la serie 5000, 6000 o 7000 (dette commercialmente anche paralluman, anticorodal, o ergal) potrebbero andare bene per tale scopo???
Te ne sarei infinitamente grato!!! Grazie mille e scusa il distrurbo!!! Continua così....
great video!
You are very good man
What oil use?
What oil do you use is it cooking oil
Over Joy Quidpoan motor oil I think
Hello
This channel is very crazy, I intend to assemble my cutlery in this style soon.
How about you hear a way to build a tempering and tempering station all inside a vacuum chamber?
Does slow metal cooling at room temperature decrease its degree of hardness? Why, for example, if you built a furnace to temper and revenge in a negative pressure environment and after reaching the desired temperature let everything cool slowly ???
regards
...cromo, molibdênio, vanádio.. o negócio é tabelar a tabela periódica... muito bom.
Thanks for the info! 👍👊
Would freezing the plates shock the stainless making it weaker or cracking it? 🤫
Probably wouldn't have much of an effect on it as much as having a much larger set of plates to heat sink.
No idea :) Freezer go down to what -20°C? Would be interesting to know if it makes any difference with a blade at 1050°C. I guess it can if the plates are big enough!
Okay but they look like chef's knives, so don't throw away the one that's around 55HRC, use it in your own kitchen! ;) 👍 Ideally you want it a bit harder, but some German chef's knives come in at 56HRC. Or re-heat-treat it, it's not like that hasn't happened before to anyone, *cough, cough* lol!
Ahah! Right! That's exactly what I'll do, I'll keep the oil one for me to use :) Thank you!
The problem with Plate Quenching is the edges will take longer to quench unless you made the plates more like a mold for the knife.
Why remove the foil before oilquench? Just dunk it in there, or am I totally wrong?
Problem is that the foil doesn't have a perfect contact to the knife and you get a different cooling what results in a wobbling blade
Not sure, but I feel like XJ9 :)
Nice!
By the way, nice blades. I don't use stainless steel myself. I prefer high carbon steel.
Aspetta, ma sei per caso italiano? I tuoi video sono bellissimi
add baby pouder on blade before putting it to foil ... it will prevent it to stick .
look John Grimsmo heat treatment
I used stainless foil for D2 steel and it was also difficult to remove.
Dust your blade liberally with pure talcum powder (no scents or cornstarch added) or aluminum oxide powder..this will prevent the sticking, which is actually the foil welding itself to the steel in spots. The manufacturers of the foil give this advice on their websites.
Jazakalloh khoir
and if you dont remove the foil ?
I ran into a problem with the Floyd plate melting.
This is sou asom!!
Thanks for sharing! This was very interesting. My fear with the aluminum plate is that the edge of the blade might not be in contact on both sides with the plate and might not get as hard. After using it, do you think that is the case?
Thank you for watching! :) The harness files can't feel any differene in the blade from tip to bevels. But it might be within 5 Rc. Anyway I blasted air directly into the edge as soon as I closed the plates hoping to make that as hard as possible
Wauuuuuuu it's great 👍 👍 👍
Why didn't you quench with foil on?
Hey, where did you get your hardness tester file set?
Ebay from Japan!
Hinging the plates that way: if you ever use a different thickness, you will need a new set of plates
you should try using two marble slabs instead of two aluminum slabs
the point of the plates is to cool and straighten, not only straighten.
@@nikker1 yes that is why i say try marble because it suck the heat out really fast and even
@@lytken the heat transfer rates of marble and aluminum are not in any way comparable, sorry
Just wondering where did you get the files
Ebay from Japan!
LATE SQUADDDDDD
I'm sorry I failed you FOR BEING LATE😢😢😢😭😭😭😭😭
You rock :')
Black Beard Projects oh thank you💙💙💙💙💙 I loved this video by the way
You aren't giving the oil quench a fair chance. Your foil welded to the steel because you did not dust it with either aluminum oxide powder, or pure talcum powder. Your oil quench pot needs to be much larger as well, large enough to really immerse the blade and allow you to move it constantly while quenching, into "fresh" oil. The temperature of the oil needs to be less than 125 degrees F. when you quench, I go for around 110 deg. F. Make those changes and give it a try and you may not go back to the plates again.
Try to lower the oil temperature and you will get the same results!
This is the first of your videos I have watched but it won't be the last! Where do you get the Rockwell test files? I can get a pretty close estimate by feel; I've been making knives and other edged weapons since 1990
I don't understand how oil quenching made a high-hardenability, air-cooled (even slower) stainless end up softer than air cooling. I understand the warping, but not the failure to harden.
your error in the oil was the foil, try again without the foil
Why cant you quench with the foil on?
You can, Eddie. The manufacturers of the heat treat foil say you can, in fact. What the guy didn't know is that you need to dust the blade before wrapping with aluminum oxide powder or pure talcum powder and wrap tightly. The powder prevents the welding of the foil to the blade and the tight wrap allows the blade to cool rapidly and evenly. This guy didn't give oil quench a fair chance. If you make blades with a flat for guards and the blade tapers in both directions from that flat, one direction for the tapered tang and the other for the natural taper of the grind to the point, the only point of contact with the plates will be the flat..I find the oil quench a better method when properly done. Also, you need a quenching pot with enough oil to completely immerse the blade and allow for some movement around in the oil while the quench occurs.
Yikes!
My shop looks like a grenade went off in it.
My wife cleaned it once, and I asked her to never do that again.
I couldn’t find ANYTHING!😮