Water would get it 1-2 points harder vs the parks 50. And vegetable oil would be 2-3 points lower than the parks 50. All 3 would still be very brittle. Tempering solves the brittle problem depending on the temperature used. The problem isn’t that water gets it to hard. The problem (air, oil quench steels, and thin steel) is that it martensite is formed to quickly causing huge stresses on the steel making it tear apart. Which is a crack or a complete break.
Regarding the blood quench - it only works in the blood of your enemies. You have to make a mortal enemy of whatever animal you got the blood from first. If the blood came from annoying cattle that just sort of chuckled when your katar build didn't work out, then the quench won't be as hard.
What about your own blood? Literally putting body and soul into your blade sounds very badass, if tedious to drain enough of your own blood without killing yourself
I'd have liked to see a test of brittleness after each one! I've always heard that the reason water quenches are generally bad isn't because they don't harden the blade, but because they overharden and leave the steel brittle.
that is dealt with in the tempering process, and also how hard the steel can get is entirely dependant on the alloying materials in the steel, also some steels will harden in water but not oil
I'm surprised you didn't try in piss, as it was used numerous times historically. It also suposedly adds benefits to the quenching by adding nitrogen (from the amonia) to the surface.
@@dododojo905 No problem apart from the metal catching fire that is. Mercury quenching is a thing. Molten lead is also a possibility. Not good for any steel alloy.
@@Kualinar Gonna need a lot of extra safety equipment for both, though. Like a giant industrial fume hood in a sealed environment. If some of those fumes get into the air, that's a big breach of very reasonable laws and a few less years of his later life without alzheimers
@@BierBart12 There is ONE place where they do mercury quenching. They have a derogation because it's how that French razor company have done it for over 250 years, and it's knife razors have an international reputation that could get damaged by quenching using another method. Yes, it's done in a sealed environment where the fumes can not get out. EVERYTHING is very strictly controlled.
I'm taking a course at University right now about engineering alloys, the first few weeks of the class have been spent on the various structures and compositions of steels. We just went over the impact of various cooling rates caused by different quenching media yesterday! It's been super fun learning in depth the science behind all the amazing blacksmithing I see on this channel
Materials engineering is both super cool and a friggin' nightmare. The subjects that touched MatE have been my favorite to *learn about* but my least favorite to actually study and try to wrap my head around.
From what I can find quenching knives made of modern steels is largely pointless as knives are small enough that they cool rapidly enough in air. The recommended quenching oil is aimed at tonnes of steel.
@@liam7342 while they cool rapidly in air, that isn't air quenching (at least not for knives). Air quenching requires forced air, i.e., it's air being blown directly at the steel. I only make this distinction because the way you phrased in your comment makes it seem like simple natural convection is fast enough, and it isn't. I would also add (though, iirc, he mentioned it in the video) that there are reasons why one would use a particular oil over water or air. It could be the hardness that you are aiming for, or to have a more predictable outcome as too much internal stresses from cooling too rapidly (or asymmetrically) is more likely to cause the knife to bend or, even worse, break.
@@liam7342 Most custom folder makers who use modern stainless steel's designed for knives usually quench by air cooling or using two aluminum plates to keep the blade straight, sometimes the plates are water cooled aswell but you are correct in your thinking.
This needs to become a series, It literally brought me back to your channel and I'm engaged with you once again. Here are some examples of other "quenching matters" I've thought about. Molasses Milk Glycerin Soy Sauce Motor Oil Maple Syrup Molten Wax Olive Oil Sea Water Acetone
It looks like you had a blast filming this! The ketchup doesn't fill in the steam jacket because it is non-Newtonian, and only flows when a shear force is applied (which is why hitting the bottle makes it flow out). If you want a proper ketchup quench, you need to set up your quenching tube on a vibrating table to make sure the ketchup makes good contact with the blade!
@@ZACKMAN2007Yup. Specifically it is "thixotropic" which means time-dependent-shear-thinning (as opposed to corn starch goo, which is shear-thickening) but also thixotropic is just a really fun word to say
From what I understand, anvil foundrys used to be located by waterfalls because a high volume and pressure of the flowing water was the only way they could pull heat from the surface fast enough to get a good hardness. So you can overcome the steam barrier through pure mechanical means. I've also used what we call a "super quench", a brine/dishsoap/surficant solution that minimizes the bubbles that can cling to the metal, so more heat transfer occurs. Not good for high carbon steels, as mentioned cooling too quickly tends to shatter them. You do rather need to tailor your quench process to your alloy and desired result. Also, I used to drive by the plant where they make that ketchup, I'll never forget the scent of burning vinegar and tomato paste...
Getting enough heat off a 200 pound or bigger anvil for a good hardening quench must be a right pain! I can well imagine using some kind of spraying/high-flowing water to make it cool down fast enough. Very interesting!
Actually, that kind of hardening mechanism only works with steel, due to the so-called allotropy of iron. At 723 - 911°C (depending on how much carbon it contains, which is up to 2%) the iron switches its structure to a configuration, where it can hold more carbon between its atoms. When cooled quicky enough, that the carbon can't escape in time, the iron wants to switch back, "trapping" the carbon and creating great tension within the structure, which we percieve as hardness. Other metals can be hardened by heat treating, but in a different way.
True, I just didn't think of that as "different materials". They are of course, though Alec isn't exactly famous for being picky with his steel alloys...
Fun fact, that steam jacket you're talking about has a name, or term of you will. It's called liedenfrost effect. The liquid isn't actually touching the metal, but instead boiling off before it hits the surface from the extreme heat, until it drops below a certain temperature.
As other comment have suggested a grain analysis of different quenching mediums with my personal suggestion to include a mercury quench. I've heard it has been used for some tools requiring extreme hardness.
Have heard about "super quench" liquids which are briney with a bit of soap usually as a surfactant to break surface tension and harden so quickly that even mild steel can be hardened a bit; would be interesting to see what this would do with some good knife steel!
Honestly, I still think the most advantageous use for a blood quench is in a fantasy or horror novel, but apparently it's not terrible... and now I'm wondering about a Viking axehead quenched in a mix of blood and honey or blood and mead.
Using the blood for quenching is still rookie level for a fantasy setting. If you're not collecting the blood from all your enemies, extracting the iron and making a sword from it, what are you even doing with your life?
A lot of these results make sense because when you get down to it a lot of them are fundamentally mostly water, therefore their quench performance is similar to that of.... water. Now once we started to get into different viscosities of them that showed some interesting results! The trick to revisiting this would be to find things that are not water based (but also wouldn't be toxic once heated up too...)
Would be cool to see you do this with several types of steel, O1, A2, mild. And also the some of the more typical fluids like ATF, gear oil, used motor oil, as well as chilled brine, ice water or compressed air.
This was great. I use 80CRV2 a lot, i've had good results in Canola and stepped up to Parks 50 a long time ago. It would be very constructive to have seen an approximate temperature prior to the quench and if you'd used a Hardness Tester to quantify your results - even for the more frivolous choices. Entertaining and educational as always!
@@Volt64bolt it's not consistent and very carcinogenic. Not something anyone should use for hardening blades. Unfortunately this video is just going to do the blade smithing community disservice because a bunch of people are now going to think using some of these things are ok. Just save the money for good oil it's really not that expensive even compared to the alternatives.
word of warning: a lot of motor oils contain additives that are very, very bad to breathe in, so I would strongly recommend not using that, or at least wearing a respirator while quenching. It isn't too bad as a liquid, but you are going to burn/vaporize some of it while quenching, and you don't want to be breathing those fumes.
@@betafishjeremy7454 as long as you preheat it the consistency is fine. As far as the fumes go they aren’t as carcinogenic as other common things and I doubt your quenching a blade every day so as long as you don’t breath in the fumes your fine. I think most people understand that this video is meant to just see what it does rather than oh look you can use this wacky liquid to quench in. Yes saving the money for good oil is a good idea however I don’t have the time to make a proper quench tank and I am not spilling 50 quids worth of oil every few months and for my the motor oil is free and thus is the easiest option atm.
Quench it in molten bismuth, gallium, or lead. A quench I've wanted to see for a long time is basically throwing the blade hard into a deep pool of liquid so it travels quickly through the liquid coming in contact with a much fresh cool liquid as possible without being effected by the Leidenfrost effect. Perhaps if that doesn't work, you could attach the blade to a line weighted down and drag it through deep water at high velocities with say, a wave runner or a speed boat.
I mean, proper quenching technique is already supposed to counteract the worst of the Leidenfrost effect; you'll notice how Alec continuously shakes the blade up and down to prevent vapor from forming a jacket and insulating the blade too much. Also, as Alec mentioned, cooling a blade too quickly can sometimes cause warping or even snapping.
Maybe you wouldn't get the same high-flow you're talking about but just quenching in a stream or some other moving body of water would be much easier than trying to get the blade to move through. Quench the blade with a fire hose or something maybe
Carbon really only gets mixed into the steel when it is being produced from the melt, it's getting no where near hot enough to incorporate more carbon in any meaningful way. Maybe a tiny change right at the very surface, but I doubt anything substantial. How all the grime in the used oil affects how well it cools the steel might be interesting to see
This is a fantastic video. What you're showing here is the big difference between the heat capacities of the liquids. Since the thermal conductivity of all liquids suck (especially considering the boiled vapors shielding the steel), the heat capacity is the biggest thing that drives the cooling rate of a quench. Water has an abnormally high heat capacity, so it cools the steel the fastest, and results in an exceptionally hard quench that is likely brittle. Oil cools the knife slower, so it results in a lower hardness but higher toughness. Normal vodka is 60% water and 40% alcohol, so it has an average heat capacity of 3.38 J/g-K, which is considerably higher than the oils, but the leidenfrost effect of boiling off the alcohol could slow the quench. Honey and ketchup are too viscous to flow, so they shouldn't offer a rapid quench like the other liquids. I know this is a year on, but did you guys perform Rockwell C testing on the quenched knives to see how hard they got?
Is there a difference in result between a horizontal quench vs a vertical quench? And if so, is there a difference in outcome when you put the edge in first vs edge on top?
0:48 Water 1:50 Quenching Oil 2:28 Vegetable Oil 3:23 Coca Cola 4:57 Vodka 6:28 Honey 7:30 Ketchup 8:51 Blood For those only interested in one or two :P
You should have broken the each of the blades to see the cell structure of the internal's acidity look like Outside was definitely hard on a lot of those but there's no telling what it looked like on the inside of there any micro Fractures
@@Its_Captain_Jack_Sparrow Sorry the grammar in front of you Asian is pretty bad my thumbs are currently disabled so I can't use my keyboard so everything is current speaking text So you want to be a grammar nazi go somewhere else
My suggestions for quenching "liquids"; -Milk -Maple Syrup -Molasses -Mercury -Butter (if possible have it melting into a liquid form first) -Oobleck (that's a mixture of cornstarch and water, and good luck figuring out the best way to easily submerse the blade in that) -anti-freeze -pickle brine
Hey Alec I'm a very very amateur knife maker and i want to know how different steels respond to different cooling medium...please please please do a video about steel being quenched in oil,water or alluminium plate etc and do a review about how it affect the strength of the steel after quenching in different medium. You are the only youtuber who would do what your viewers want to see. I looooove your channel...
A restaurant I used to work at had a big grill that we'd clean with vinegar. Having it steam into your eyes and nose is awful. You can almost taste it and feel it going from your nose back to your mouth. Definitely DON'T RECOMMEND! Unless you have a stuffed up nose or want to smell like cat piss.
Would have been nice to see each one tested for what hardness it ended up at, then broken to see internal grain structure. Then maybe even temper them and test hrc and break again.
Suggestions for further experiments? → WD40 (Highly interested in that experiment → A Block of Butter (which has to meld through the knives heat first and then provides the quenching liquid...) → Snow → Gasoline / Diesel / Cerosine (High Danger expected) → leftover Gravy from e.g. a turkey feast → Milk → Applejuice → any sort of ice cream (without any chunks of anything) → and now the disgusting on: have a night out with Jamie, drink lot's of beer and collect your pee.. don't forget your Nose plugs during the quench 🙂 - okay, Urin consist of 95% Water and the rest is a various composition of Urea, Chloride, Sodium, Potassium, Creatinine, inorganic sulfur and minimal amounts of some other stuff like ammonia, phosphorus, different acids like citrus, uric, glucuronic, hippuric etc... So, I would expect it be similar to the the water quench, with a significant worse smell.
I'd be curious to see what would happen trying to quench in a solid fat like lard, butter, or shortening. It could make a bad jacket like the ketchup did, but it would also melt to a pretty thin liquid fairly quickly I'd imagine.
in wayne goddards $50.00 knife shop book he has a recipe for lard and parafin wax mixed as a quench medium,It works great on 5160,been using it for 20+ years now even passed my abs js cut and bend using it.
I would be curious about vinegar, mustard, relish, motor oil, transmission fluid, and denatured alcohol or isopropyl. Also, is it possible to quench between copper or aluminum blocks?
i was also curious about transferring the heat into some metal or material that absorbs heat and isnt a liquid but id also like to see high proof alcohol thats been sitting in the freezer for a day or two.
I have a few that might be interesting Antifreeze Motor Oil (Maybe New and used) hydraulic Oil Transmission Fluid Break Fluid Drain Cleaner (Curious as to what an Acid might do during a quench) Personal Lube (Funzies) Liquid Gallium (Melts at about the bodies temperature. Might need a pre heating) Note: I think quenching a metal with another metal might be interesting. I am curious if a thin layer of alloy will develop) I have a ton more i can think of. But Quenching in something like Mercury Might be too dangerous.
9:21 Oh, not gonna lie, I was sort of thinking you might have made this because of your recent wavy blade quenching experience. I wonder if one of the slower quenches would have saved the edge?
One time i had a steel that was supposed to be quenched in water so I did and it cracked terribly. I tried again but this time I did more research and I found that adding soap in the water can slow down the cooling process. Some other people said salt could also do the trick. I added both soap and salt, I also heated up the water and it still cracked the 2nd time lol, but it might be interesting to see if those actually work
Quenching steel in salt water seems like a terrible idea from a chemical standpoint. (EDIT: To be clear, I'm in full support of seeing it tried out by Alec, I'm just expecting disaster.)
@@Merennulli on a high carbon steel, yes very likely to crack or warp or develop a defect due to temperature shock and internal stresses, which is why oil quenches are most common(slower cooling=less stress). But for a low grade steel, something with relatively low carbon content for example, that may not take a hardening in oil, may achieve some hardness with the faster quench.
Great video guys! Obviously I don't want to suggest anything too dangerous but has anyone considered a Bleach quench? I know it's a powerful oxidiser and causes metals to rust rapidly, but would it have any interesting properties if you quenched in it? Enquiring minds want to know!
Just a few off the top of my head: Urine Vinegar Gasoline/petrol (I think if you do it outside and have fire extinguishers ready it would be safe-adjacent) Lard or coconut oil - something that would start solid but melt with the blade in it
Awesome video...can you do hammer/axe handles made from wood at big box stores like poplar, cedar, pine, etc...and why hickory and ash are preferable woods to use
I worked in a shop for 10 years that had an induction heat treat that hardened and tempered ball pins (ball joint component) for cars and trucks. We used a purpose-made polymer quenchant (aquatensid) that was water soluble at room temperature and fell out of solution when it was sprayed on the hot parts to coat them in a polymer to prevent oxygen from impregnating the surface. We also used a nitrogen atmosphere in the quenching tunnel. It slowed the quench velocity of water down to something more similar to oil without having to worry about all of the fumes and fire risk associated with oil. This machine would take a ball pin from room temperature and heat it up to 1600° f in 3 seconds, It would run about 24,000 parts a day. The monthly electric bill for that machine alone was about 30,000 US dollars.
I’m starting in forging, I’m using a wood forge aka a 55 gallon barrel with a hatch and an anvil attached to a vice, I’m broke and don’t have the knowledge to get a gas forge but I’m improving for now. Tomorrow I’m making a copper knife
3M Novec 7000, it's an industrial coolant/fire surpression fluid that cools by boiling, it has a much lower boiling point than water (I believe around 40-50c) and not very viscous so should cool very quickly either resulting in a very hard steel or a break. Also isnt flammable so should be safe Alternatively if your willing to wear PPE, there's ammonia
Part of the reason for the reduced hardness with the honey may be the partial quench. Having half the knife out of the quenching liquid will have left loads of heat for the quenched part to draw down and slow down the cooling process
I think i remember seeing a blacksmith that claimed that quenching blades facing north made them never warp, because when they're hot they lose any magnetic properties and when cooling the metal regains them, and if not facing north, the blade warps... seems at least something that can be tested. i saw a few videos and his blades never did warp (or so he claimed)
The people of the internet would like to kindly request a repeat of this experiment with a real hardness tester to show us just how hard honey can get steel etc :-) you guys are awesome keep up the great work
What I'm intersted in, if there is a quench that give just the right hardness- softness balance that you can skip the heat treating part. Heat treating is probably the biggest challenge for a backyard smith as they don't usually have sophisticated forge or oven for the precise heat control.
If you try this again, you should try more fragile steel, such as the kinds you've had trouble quenching in the past. Also, I'd like to see Spring Steel mostly because it's a standard Introductory blacksmithing steel since it can be found in large quantities at junkyards.
How about quenching in new and/or used motor oil for cars/motorcycles? Maybe try some of the other seed oils like grapeseed oil or olive oil. Or what about quenching in WD-40 if you can find the liquid non-aerosol form of the stuff? Or how about a quench in Ferric Chloride, your etching liquid? Would a quench in that have a pronounced effect on a Damascus blade?
@@AntwonDaBusiness That's not the only thing. First they have to control the temperature, they'll need a heat treating oven, no point in comparing them with a blowtorch or a gas forge. They'll want to put it into the quenchant the same way, and hold it in the same orientation for the same amount of time. Just winging it won't do. They'll also need to test the harness. Files wouldn't be precise enough, they would need a proper tester. They will likely want to test the toughness, with some impact device. They will probably also want to cut it open any analyze the grain structure. as different oils will harden to a different depth. The testing methods in the video will likely not show the differences between them.
@@AntwonDaBusiness Well, i am not sure he used them. Either way, the other points are still issues. It didn't seem nearly scientic enough to tell differences between different quenching oils when it barely manages to show differences between vodka and quenching oil, lol.
antifreeze would be weird quench. however your definitely going to want ventilate. also would love to see how long it takes to normalize a piece in a vacuum via vacuum pump.
I used to quench in used motor oil This was before I knew anything about knife making, but it ended up working just fine Still have that knife, it was a mystery stainless steel knife made from a couple of cheap gas station pocket knives that I forged together to make something useful
Question: does the appropriate oil also provide some additional features/benefits to the blade and especially the surface other than dissipating heat quickly and possibly changing the inner tensions of the blade?
I made similar experiment with the steel that I mostly make my knives from (N690). Unsurprisingly I got the best result with the recommended quenching medium but all other options worked reasonably well too, including air quenching and plate quenching - they were ever so slightly softer than the oil-quenched sample, but still hard enough for good blade. Thus for thin blades from this steel I am using plate quenching to reduce warp, and for thicker blades I use oil.
In agriculture they use “wetting agents” or surfactants to break the surface tension of water and help it get into plants or soil better. It would be interesting to see what a water quench treated with a surfactant would do to a blade.
I have heard that used motor oil is a good quenching liquid. Don't just check the blades for hardness, but also strength. Quenching too quickly can make your blade so hard that is becomes brittle.
Jello, hot sauce, milk, jam, mustard, pickle brine... and actually I'm curious to see if there's a difference between alcohol types/proofs. Like, which quenches better, wine or whiskey? I have no idea why this is popping into my head now but there it is.
Here's a challenge, forge an Estwing hammer into a knife, without destroying the blue handle. Doing that with the leather handle versions would be easier because the leather could be removed then put back. A whole set of kitchen knives with blue Estwing Saf-T-Shape handles sized appropriately would be very nice.
Wonderful video! Suggestions if you ever try this again: Soy sauce Water based lube Egg whites Corn syrup Distilled water Cider/Beer Crushed Ice Custard
I was hoping for some used motor oil, as a cheap readily available option and for a crazy one, that ultra fine silica dust (sand-ish) they use for tempered glass. Aluminium dust would make a great heat sink, but I'm not sure it will survive red hot steel.
maybe quench in mercury? Quenching in some acids or bases like amonia could be interessting too. I highliy recomend a gasmask. Glycerin would be interessting too. And the stuff wich is more viskose than water, but thats also highly flamable, like octan, hexan etc.
I have been curious about quenching in acidic liquid since learning about Sparta and Lycurgus, he is said to have abolished silver and gold coin, replacing it with iron coin that had been quenched in vinegar to render the iron brittle and unusable and keep it from being reforged
fascinating subject but I think 80CRV (similar carbon to 1080) is a relatively forgiving steel to try this with...as would be 1084 but if you tried this with 5160 or 4140 then you would almost certainly have problems. Still a thing to use the correct quench remembering that Alex's blade blanks are also properly annealed.
Other quenching substances to try: - Pee - Wine - Bleach (or other strong cleaning product, perhaps one that won't give off deadly fumes) - Granulated Sugar - Mercury Ok so the mercury is an insane idea, but I'm putting it anyway. Not that bleach wouldn't also be insane, but some kind of vaguely potent cleaner could be doable.
Okay, possible quench options: eggs, urine, salt water, ink, diluted toothpaste, soy sauce, milk, vinegar, cement, jello, oil based salad dressing. Please have a good think before trying any of these since I haven't.
I asked Cody once a couple years ago to try quenching metal in cooled liquid mercury and he said he was interested but I think he forgot. With the very high thermal conductivity of a metal, and a minimal vapor jacket because of the higher boiling point, it should quench insanely fast. Might even manage to make amorphous metal.
@@awashburn6944 Yeah wouldn't really be quenching but dripping molten steel on to of the mercury. Which wouldn't necessarily work because if it's solid you can force it down but as a liquid, steel will float on mercury.
A few liquids to try quenching blades in in the future are; Urine Guinness Sump Oil Diesel Acetone Wine (red, white and /or bubbly) Turpentine Fruit Juice of some sort. Hopefully these liquids will produce some more interesting results for yourself
Ketchup is a non-Newtonian fluid. Basically when no force is applied ketchup becomes thicker / harder /solidish. When force is applied ketchup becomes thinner / softer / liquidy. Yes that's why you have to shake the bottle of ketchup to be able to use it. I'm thinking you can get a quench in ketchup if you were able to move the blade quick enough to apply forced the ketchup. Oobleck is also a non-Newtonian fluid. Which is just cornstarch and water. But it acts the opposite of ketchup. No Force applied to oobleck the thinner / softer / liquidy it is. The more Force applied to it the thicker / harder / and solid it becomes. It would be cool to see you to try to quench in oobleck.
I read this book series about elemental dragons and their riders. The riders can draw power from the dragons, and once the bond gets strong enough the rider is tasked with making dragon steel. A rider will fail at doing this nearly a dozen times, its so difficult to get right. It has to be forged by your dragons breath, and quenched in something pertaining to the power you share. The main character has lunar powers, so he forged his blade under a full moon, and quenched it in a perfectly still bay that reflected the moon perfectly, dipping it right into the moons reflection. The other main character is a daughter of flame, so they quenched hers is already boiling water created from her dragon
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Snapping them and looking at the grain structure would have been a cool addition.
100% agree. Ofc the water quench is going to harden the steel, however, I feel like it would be quite brittle vs the quenching oil.
Yes
@@spikedaddy46 both would have to be tempered after quenching, so that is a moot point.
Water would get it 1-2 points harder vs the parks 50. And vegetable oil would be 2-3 points lower than the parks 50. All 3 would still be very brittle. Tempering solves the brittle problem depending on the temperature used. The problem isn’t that water gets it to hard. The problem (air, oil quench steels, and thin steel) is that it martensite is formed to quickly causing huge stresses on the steel making it tear apart. Which is a crack or a complete break.
Or sending them to Alex at @OUTDOORS55 to run a million hardness tests... ;)
Regarding the blood quench - it only works in the blood of your enemies. You have to make a mortal enemy of whatever animal you got the blood from first. If the blood came from annoying cattle that just sort of chuckled when your katar build didn't work out, then the quench won't be as hard.
Excellent point! The hatred in the blood is what makes your steel harder
You have inspired lyrics for some metalcore music I'm working on.
@@randominternetbro6562 Admittedly, I've listened to more Bardcore than Metalcore, but I'm glad to be of service to the arts. :)
What about your own blood? Literally putting body and soul into your blade sounds very badass, if tedious to drain enough of your own blood without killing yourself
@@burningcole2538 Well, that would definitely work for me. I'm my own worst enemy.
I'd have liked to see a test of brittleness after each one! I've always heard that the reason water quenches are generally bad isn't because they don't harden the blade, but because they overharden and leave the steel brittle.
that is dealt with in the tempering process, and also how hard the steel can get is entirely dependant on the alloying materials in the steel, also some steels will harden in water but not oil
I'm surprised you didn't try in piss, as it was used numerous times historically. It also suposedly adds benefits to the quenching by adding nitrogen (from the amonia) to the surface.
Pt 2?
@@sarahloomis2034idk I think it’d fall into pt 1. Pt 2 would be much nastier lol
HAHAHHAHA@@09Woozer
Man it would stink though haha
piss doesn't have ammonia, it has urea
Quench in GALLIUM! Quench in some metal!! 😉👊🍻
Nah, gallium would just eat up iron. Indium though... But indium in itself is hard at room temp. Need to look up some near-room-temp liquid alloy
@@humANdroid95 Quench in NaK. I foresee no problems with this...
@@dododojo905 No problem apart from the metal catching fire that is.
Mercury quenching is a thing.
Molten lead is also a possibility. Not good for any steel alloy.
@@Kualinar Gonna need a lot of extra safety equipment for both, though. Like a giant industrial fume hood in a sealed environment. If some of those fumes get into the air, that's a big breach of very reasonable laws and a few less years of his later life without alzheimers
@@BierBart12 There is ONE place where they do mercury quenching. They have a derogation because it's how that French razor company have done it for over 250 years, and it's knife razors have an international reputation that could get damaged by quenching using another method.
Yes, it's done in a sealed environment where the fumes can not get out. EVERYTHING is very strictly controlled.
I'm taking a course at University right now about engineering alloys, the first few weeks of the class have been spent on the various structures and compositions of steels. We just went over the impact of various cooling rates caused by different quenching media yesterday! It's been super fun learning in depth the science behind all the amazing blacksmithing I see on this channel
Materials engineering is both super cool and a friggin' nightmare. The subjects that touched MatE have been my favorite to *learn about* but my least favorite to actually study and try to wrap my head around.
From what I can find quenching knives made of modern steels is largely pointless as knives are small enough that they cool rapidly enough in air. The recommended quenching oil is aimed at tonnes of steel.
@@liam7342 while they cool rapidly in air, that isn't air quenching (at least not for knives). Air quenching requires forced air, i.e., it's air being blown directly at the steel.
I only make this distinction because the way you phrased in your comment makes it seem like simple natural convection is fast enough, and it isn't.
I would also add (though, iirc, he mentioned it in the video) that there are reasons why one would use a particular oil over water or air. It could be the hardness that you are aiming for, or to have a more predictable outcome as too much internal stresses from cooling too rapidly (or asymmetrically) is more likely to cause the knife to bend or, even worse, break.
@@liam7342 nope, completely wrong, it does however anneal the steel to a degree and is how normalising the steel is done
@@liam7342 Most custom folder makers who use modern stainless steel's designed for knives usually quench by air cooling or using two aluminum plates to keep the blade straight, sometimes the plates are water cooled aswell but you are correct in your thinking.
Call me crazy but this felt more like your old videos! Raw and just fun. Do more like this if you can dude! Love it
Was this before selling out and shilling products
@@SHIEET817 sold out big time
1:36 cactus juice. It's the quenchiest.
It'll quench ya!
I absolutely love that I wish they would make a 3rd avatar series
This needs to become a series, It literally brought me back to your channel and I'm engaged with you once again.
Here are some examples of other "quenching matters" I've thought about.
Molasses
Milk
Glycerin
Soy Sauce
Motor Oil
Maple Syrup
Molten Wax
Olive Oil
Sea Water
Acetone
DO NOT DO IT IN ACETONE! YOU CLEARLY ARE F***ING CRAZY!!!
It looks like you had a blast filming this!
The ketchup doesn't fill in the steam jacket because it is non-Newtonian, and only flows when a shear force is applied (which is why hitting the bottle makes it flow out). If you want a proper ketchup quench, you need to set up your quenching tube on a vibrating table to make sure the ketchup makes good contact with the blade!
I didn't know ketchup is a non nutoion fluid
@@ZACKMAN2007Yup. Specifically it is "thixotropic" which means time-dependent-shear-thinning (as opposed to corn starch goo, which is shear-thickening) but also thixotropic is just a really fun word to say
From what I understand, anvil foundrys used to be located by waterfalls because a high volume and pressure of the flowing water was the only way they could pull heat from the surface fast enough to get a good hardness. So you can overcome the steam barrier through pure mechanical means. I've also used what we call a "super quench", a brine/dishsoap/surficant solution that minimizes the bubbles that can cling to the metal, so more heat transfer occurs. Not good for high carbon steels, as mentioned cooling too quickly tends to shatter them. You do rather need to tailor your quench process to your alloy and desired result.
Also, I used to drive by the plant where they make that ketchup, I'll never forget the scent of burning vinegar and tomato paste...
Getting enough heat off a 200 pound or bigger anvil for a good hardening quench must be a right pain! I can well imagine using some kind of spraying/high-flowing water to make it cool down fast enough. Very interesting!
Doing this on different metals would be cool as well. I am sure certain materials are more prone to cracking or warping.
Actually, that kind of hardening mechanism only works with steel, due to the so-called allotropy of iron. At 723 - 911°C (depending on how much carbon it contains, which is up to 2%) the iron switches its structure to a configuration, where it can hold more carbon between its atoms. When cooled quicky enough, that the carbon can't escape in time, the iron wants to switch back, "trapping" the carbon and creating great tension within the structure, which we percieve as hardness. Other metals can be hardened by heat treating, but in a different way.
@@TheS4ndm4n different types of steel quench differently like w2 can use water
True, I just didn't think of that as "different materials". They are of course, though Alec isn't exactly famous for being picky with his steel alloys...
Fun fact, that steam jacket you're talking about has a name, or term of you will. It's called liedenfrost effect. The liquid isn't actually touching the metal, but instead boiling off before it hits the surface from the extreme heat, until it drops below a certain temperature.
He does mention this in the video
Leidenfrost
@@davidchudleigh1249 not by name though. Which was the point of my comment.
@@sjaakbral83 I thought I spelled it wrong, only got the I and E mixed up.
And thats why you should move the part in figure of 8 to avoid gas bubbles between the part and the quenching media
As other comment have suggested a grain analysis of different quenching mediums with my personal suggestion to include a mercury quench. I've heard it has been used for some tools requiring extreme hardness.
Have heard about "super quench" liquids which are briney with a bit of soap usually as a surfactant to break surface tension and harden so quickly that even mild steel can be hardened a bit; would be interesting to see what this would do with some good knife steel!
Honestly, I still think the most advantageous use for a blood quench is in a fantasy or horror novel, but apparently it's not terrible... and now I'm wondering about a Viking axehead quenched in a mix of blood and honey or blood and mead.
thats a dnd custom item if ive ever heard of one
Using the blood for quenching is still rookie level for a fantasy setting. If you're not collecting the blood from all your enemies, extracting the iron and making a sword from it, what are you even doing with your life?
Definitely sounds like some old Viking thing "I shall quench my blade in the blood of my enemies!!" haha
@@Gameboygenius you just made an old D&D guy spit his drink out laughing! EPIC comment !
more like 70% water and 30% blood
A lot of these results make sense because when you get down to it a lot of them are fundamentally mostly water, therefore their quench performance is similar to that of.... water. Now once we started to get into different viscosities of them that showed some interesting results!
The trick to revisiting this would be to find things that are not water based (but also wouldn't be toxic once heated up too...)
Me omw to quench in benzene (I now have horrific cancer)
Maybe try mercury? Or maybe not.
Quench in Jello.
Quench in jam.
@@bladdnun3016 MUST be done under a hood with a good filter.
Would be cool to see you do this with several types of steel, O1, A2, mild. And also the some of the more typical fluids like ATF, gear oil, used motor oil, as well as chilled brine, ice water or compressed air.
I agree that would be awesome
Throw in D2 and S7 as well.
Upvote!
Used motor oil might be interesting, too. From both gas and diesel engines
This was great. I use 80CRV2 a lot, i've had good results in Canola and stepped up to Parks 50 a long time ago. It would be very constructive to have seen an approximate temperature prior to the quench and if you'd used a Hardness Tester to quantify your results - even for the more frivolous choices. Entertaining and educational as always!
Another easy metric would have been how long it took to quench.
Now I want to see: A Katana quenched in soy sauce, a rapier quenched in wine and a messer quenched in beer.
Yes
I love how alec shouted out nate. I watch you both and seeing something inspired by him made my day.
Used motor oil. I've been using it to darken and rust proof metal, it does make things much harder than they were originally.
That’s what I always use, only issue is the fumes. Just make sure to pre warm it
@@Volt64bolt it's not consistent and very carcinogenic. Not something anyone should use for hardening blades. Unfortunately this video is just going to do the blade smithing community disservice because a bunch of people are now going to think using some of these things are ok.
Just save the money for good oil it's really not that expensive even compared to the alternatives.
@@betafishjeremy7454 I wouldn't diss the food oil quench, but anything else is a stupid idea.
word of warning: a lot of motor oils contain additives that are very, very bad to breathe in, so I would strongly recommend not using that, or at least wearing a respirator while quenching. It isn't too bad as a liquid, but you are going to burn/vaporize some of it while quenching, and you don't want to be breathing those fumes.
@@betafishjeremy7454 as long as you preheat it the consistency is fine. As far as the fumes go they aren’t as carcinogenic as other common things and I doubt your quenching a blade every day so as long as you don’t breath in the fumes your fine. I think most people understand that this video is meant to just see what it does rather than oh look you can use this wacky liquid to quench in. Yes saving the money for good oil is a good idea however I don’t have the time to make a proper quench tank and I am not spilling 50 quids worth of oil every few months and for my the motor oil is free and thus is the easiest option atm.
Quench it in molten bismuth, gallium, or lead.
A quench I've wanted to see for a long time is basically throwing the blade hard into a deep pool of liquid so it travels quickly through the liquid coming in contact with a much fresh cool liquid as possible without being effected by the Leidenfrost effect. Perhaps if that doesn't work, you could attach the blade to a line weighted down and drag it through deep water at high velocities with say, a wave runner or a speed boat.
Now that is a good idea!
Be hard to do, but if you set up on a dock you could conceivably do it.
I mean, proper quenching technique is already supposed to counteract the worst of the Leidenfrost effect; you'll notice how Alec continuously shakes the blade up and down to prevent vapor from forming a jacket and insulating the blade too much.
Also, as Alec mentioned, cooling a blade too quickly can sometimes cause warping or even snapping.
@@giggityguy YES, but not enough. And the whole point is too see it snap or not.
Maybe you wouldn't get the same high-flow you're talking about but just quenching in a stream or some other moving body of water would be much easier than trying to get the blade to move through. Quench the blade with a fire hose or something maybe
I love the part where he said: "its quenching time" and then quenched all over the place
I listened to your older videos on quenching, I knew this already :D Thanks for the creativity!
Great video as usual, how about new engine oil vs used engine oil for the carbon in the used oil! Keep making great entertaining videos 👍🏻
Carbon really only gets mixed into the steel when it is being produced from the melt, it's getting no where near hot enough to incorporate more carbon in any meaningful way. Maybe a tiny change right at the very surface, but I doubt anything substantial.
How all the grime in the used oil affects how well it cools the steel might be interesting to see
quenching in used engine oil makes your entire shop reek of burnt engine oil for weeks
the carbon won't make the slightest difference at all, thats just an old wives tale
This is a fantastic video. What you're showing here is the big difference between the heat capacities of the liquids.
Since the thermal conductivity of all liquids suck (especially considering the boiled vapors shielding the steel), the heat capacity is the biggest thing that drives the cooling rate of a quench. Water has an abnormally high heat capacity, so it cools the steel the fastest, and results in an exceptionally hard quench that is likely brittle. Oil cools the knife slower, so it results in a lower hardness but higher toughness. Normal vodka is 60% water and 40% alcohol, so it has an average heat capacity of 3.38 J/g-K, which is considerably higher than the oils, but the leidenfrost effect of boiling off the alcohol could slow the quench. Honey and ketchup are too viscous to flow, so they shouldn't offer a rapid quench like the other liquids.
I know this is a year on, but did you guys perform Rockwell C testing on the quenched knives to see how hard they got?
Is there a difference in result between a horizontal quench vs a vertical quench? And if so, is there a difference in outcome when you put the edge in first vs edge on top?
0:48 Water
1:50 Quenching Oil
2:28 Vegetable Oil
3:23 Coca Cola
4:57 Vodka
6:28 Honey
7:30 Ketchup
8:51 Blood
For those only interested in one or two :P
1) Piss 2) Vinegar 3)Piss and vinegar mix 4)Milk 5) Used cooking oil
It would have been interesting to see a rockwell hardness test on the blades.
You should have broken the each of the blades to see the cell structure of the internal's acidity look like Outside was definitely hard on a lot of those but there's no telling what it looked like on the inside of there any micro Fractures
@@Its_Captain_Jack_Sparrow Sorry the grammar in front of you Asian is pretty bad my thumbs are currently disabled so I can't use my keyboard so everything is current speaking text So you want to be a grammar nazi go somewhere else
My suggestions for quenching "liquids";
-Milk
-Maple Syrup
-Molasses
-Mercury
-Butter (if possible have it melting into a liquid form first)
-Oobleck (that's a mixture of cornstarch and water, and good luck figuring out the best way to easily submerse the blade in that)
-anti-freeze
-pickle brine
I don't think Alec is qualified to handle Mercury or dispose of it safely. That's for some TH-camr like Cody to do.
Hey Alec I'm a very very amateur knife maker and i want to know how different steels respond to different cooling medium...please please please do a video about steel being quenched in oil,water or alluminium plate etc and do a review about how it affect the strength of the steel after quenching in different medium. You are the only youtuber who would do what your viewers want to see. I looooove your channel...
If you do a part 2 I want to see what it looks like being quenched in distilled white vinegar. Plus it would smell amazing lol
It'd clear your sinuses, that's for sure
A restaurant I used to work at had a big grill that we'd clean with vinegar. Having it steam into your eyes and nose is awful. You can almost taste it and feel it going from your nose back to your mouth. Definitely DON'T RECOMMEND! Unless you have a stuffed up nose or want to smell like cat piss.
add milk and other beverages, cough syrup, liquid soap or bubble juice, wood glue, hot sauce, motor oil, wet cement to the list
My eyes are watering
Maybe pickle juice but not white vinegar.😂
Would have been nice to see each one tested for what hardness it ended up at, then broken to see internal grain structure. Then maybe even temper them and test hrc and break again.
Suggestions for further experiments?
→ WD40 (Highly interested in that experiment
→ A Block of Butter (which has to meld through the knives heat first and then provides the quenching liquid...)
→ Snow
→ Gasoline / Diesel / Cerosine (High Danger expected)
→ leftover Gravy from e.g. a turkey feast
→ Milk
→ Applejuice
→ any sort of ice cream (without any chunks of anything)
→ and now the disgusting on: have a night out with Jamie, drink lot's of beer and collect your pee.. don't forget your Nose plugs during the quench 🙂 - okay, Urin consist of 95% Water and the rest is a various composition of Urea, Chloride, Sodium, Potassium, Creatinine, inorganic sulfur and minimal amounts of some other stuff like ammonia, phosphorus, different acids like citrus, uric, glucuronic, hippuric etc... So, I would expect it be similar to the the water quench, with a significant worse smell.
a worse smell, and some instant corrosion, sure.
gross.
But butter might actually work better than you'd think.
@@nobody8717 but will it work as a block of butter?
I think there is a myth of swords being quenched with the urine of a redheaded boy for the origin of steel
Funnily enough, some Finnish knife smiths used to use their urine for quenching.
Motor oil 10w-40 / Transmission Oil / Shampoo or Conditioner / Sparkling Water / Regular Milk or Coconut Milk / Beer
1:38 it's the quenchiest!
It'll quench ya
I'd be curious to see what would happen trying to quench in a solid fat like lard, butter, or shortening. It could make a bad jacket like the ketchup did, but it would also melt to a pretty thin liquid fairly quickly I'd imagine.
in wayne goddards $50.00 knife shop book he has a recipe for lard and parafin wax mixed as a quench medium,It works great on 5160,been using it for 20+ years now even passed my abs js cut and bend using it.
I would be curious about vinegar, mustard, relish, motor oil, transmission fluid, and denatured alcohol or isopropyl. Also, is it possible to quench between copper or aluminum blocks?
Motor oil, new vs used or budget vs premium.
i was also curious about transferring the heat into some metal or material that absorbs heat and isnt a liquid but id also like to see high proof alcohol thats been sitting in the freezer for a day or two.
That's called a plate quench, which is commonly used for stock removal knives using air hardening steels!
@@knickly Thank you. I felt like I'd heard of something like that before but didn't know the name.
I think you need to make a butter knife and quench it in melted butter!
I have a few that might be interesting
Antifreeze
Motor Oil (Maybe New and used)
hydraulic Oil
Transmission Fluid
Break Fluid
Drain Cleaner (Curious as to what an Acid might do during a quench)
Personal Lube (Funzies)
Liquid Gallium (Melts at about the bodies temperature. Might need a pre heating) Note: I think quenching a metal with another metal might be interesting. I am curious if a thin layer of alloy will develop)
I have a ton more i can think of. But Quenching in something like Mercury Might be too dangerous.
Would live to see some of the common oils avaliable like motor oil (used and new) ATF stuff like that.
9:21 Oh, not gonna lie, I was sort of thinking you might have made this because of your recent wavy blade quenching experience. I wonder if one of the slower quenches would have saved the edge?
One time i had a steel that was supposed to be quenched in water so I did and it cracked terribly. I tried again but this time I did more research and I found that adding soap in the water can slow down the cooling process. Some other people said salt could also do the trick. I added both soap and salt, I also heated up the water and it still cracked the 2nd time lol, but it might be interesting to see if those actually work
Quenching steel in salt water seems like a terrible idea from a chemical standpoint.
(EDIT: To be clear, I'm in full support of seeing it tried out by Alec, I'm just expecting disaster.)
@@Merennulli saltwater or ‘brine’ quenching is fast and severe, but is used on steels that typically have low hardenability.
@@panikrev175 Interesting. I thought it would cause cracking and pitting.
@@Merennulli on a high carbon steel, yes very likely to crack or warp or develop a defect due to temperature shock and internal stresses, which is why oil quenches are most common(slower cooling=less stress). But for a low grade steel, something with relatively low carbon content for example, that may not take a hardening in oil, may achieve some hardness with the faster quench.
@@panikrev175 Thank you for taking the time to explain. :)
Great video guys! Obviously I don't want to suggest anything too dangerous but has anyone considered a Bleach quench? I know it's a powerful oxidiser and causes metals to rust rapidly, but would it have any interesting properties if you quenched in it? Enquiring minds want to know!
Just a few off the top of my head:
Urine
Vinegar
Gasoline/petrol (I think if you do it outside and have fire extinguishers ready it would be safe-adjacent)
Lard or coconut oil - something that would start solid but melt with the blade in it
Suggestions:
Motor oil
Radiator coolant
Battery acid
Kerosene
Alcohol
Mud
Stock or brine liquid
Sodium / saline solution
Tea / coffee
Milk
Fruit juice
Dry ice
Quench in Guinness
Awesome video...can you do hammer/axe handles made from wood at big box stores like poplar, cedar, pine, etc...and why hickory and ash are preferable woods to use
Hickory is pretty shock resistant. Makes for a very robust handle. Oak and Ash work as well.
Can you quench a blade in ice cream?
Interesting mediums to try quenching in would be for example vinegar, dish soap or other cleaning supplies, or copper beads/nuggets.
I worked in a shop for 10 years that had an induction heat treat that hardened and tempered ball pins (ball joint component) for cars and trucks. We used a purpose-made polymer quenchant (aquatensid) that was water soluble at room temperature and fell out of solution when it was sprayed on the hot parts to coat them in a polymer to prevent oxygen from impregnating the surface. We also used a nitrogen atmosphere in the quenching tunnel.
It slowed the quench velocity of water down to something more similar to oil without having to worry about all of the fumes and fire risk associated with oil. This machine would take a ball pin from room temperature and heat it up to 1600° f in 3 seconds, It would run about 24,000 parts a day. The monthly electric bill for that machine alone was about 30,000 US dollars.
Dip it in Viagra gets really hard 😂😂😂
This is honestly a great idea for TH-cam, but I feel like I’m going to hate it
A little critical there buddy if you hate it dont watch sounds like a personal problem
Que the smell of burning food
@@dabdailyduffycalifornia if you hate a comment don’t read it.
@@bondsaway9000 same goes for you lmfao
@@dabdailyduffycalifornia I don’t hate your comment just think it’s stupid.
Piss quench
I’m starting in forging, I’m using a wood forge aka a 55 gallon barrel with a hatch and an anvil attached to a vice, I’m broke and don’t have the knowledge to get a gas forge but I’m improving for now. Tomorrow I’m making a copper knife
3M Novec 7000, it's an industrial coolant/fire surpression fluid that cools by boiling, it has a much lower boiling point than water (I believe around 40-50c) and not very viscous so should cool very quickly either resulting in a very hard steel or a break. Also isnt flammable so should be safe
Alternatively if your willing to wear PPE, there's ammonia
Part of the reason for the reduced hardness with the honey may be the partial quench. Having half the knife out of the quenching liquid will have left loads of heat for the quenched part to draw down and slow down the cooling process
I think i remember seeing a blacksmith that claimed that quenching blades facing north made them never warp, because when they're hot they lose any magnetic properties and when cooling the metal regains them, and if not facing north, the blade warps... seems at least something that can be tested. i saw a few videos and his blades never did warp (or so he claimed)
motor oil also works, i only quenched a couple of blades and they were all on used motor oil, they all turned out pretty good
The people of the internet would like to kindly request a repeat of this experiment with a real hardness tester to show us just how hard honey can get steel etc :-) you guys are awesome keep up the great work
What I'm intersted in, if there is a quench that give just the right hardness- softness balance that you can skip the heat treating part. Heat treating is probably the biggest challenge for a backyard smith as they don't usually have sophisticated forge or oven for the precise heat control.
You just helped a whole generation of DnD players
If you try this again, you should try more fragile steel, such as the kinds you've had trouble quenching in the past. Also, I'd like to see Spring Steel mostly because it's a standard Introductory blacksmithing steel since it can be found in large quantities at junkyards.
water quenching or snow quenching in particular is something you can see in some very old books about blacksmithing.
How about quenching in new and/or used motor oil for cars/motorcycles? Maybe try some of the other seed oils like grapeseed oil or olive oil. Or what about quenching in WD-40 if you can find the liquid non-aerosol form of the stuff? Or how about a quench in Ferric Chloride, your etching liquid? Would a quench in that have a pronounced effect on a Damascus blade?
Next you should test how different REAL quenching oils can effect the same blanks. Could be interesting
I don't think they have the setup to really tell the small differences between them.
@@jort93z a hardness tester? Haha Rockwell hardness files? I’m sure they can figure that out dude haha
@@AntwonDaBusiness That's not the only thing.
First they have to control the temperature, they'll need a heat treating oven, no point in comparing them with a blowtorch or a gas forge.
They'll want to put it into the quenchant the same way, and hold it in the same orientation for the same amount of time. Just winging it won't do.
They'll also need to test the harness. Files wouldn't be precise enough, they would need a proper tester.
They will likely want to test the toughness, with some impact device.
They will probably also want to cut it open any analyze the grain structure. as different oils will harden to a different depth.
The testing methods in the video will likely not show the differences between them.
@@jort93z he has heat treating ovens dude
@@AntwonDaBusiness Well, i am not sure he used them. Either way, the other points are still issues. It didn't seem nearly scientic enough to tell differences between different quenching oils when it barely manages to show differences between vodka and quenching oil, lol.
antifreeze would be weird quench. however your definitely going to want ventilate. also would love to see how long it takes to normalize a piece in a vacuum via vacuum pump.
I used to quench in used motor oil
This was before I knew anything about knife making, but it ended up working just fine
Still have that knife, it was a mystery stainless steel knife made from a couple of cheap gas station pocket knives that I forged together to make something useful
Question: does the appropriate oil also provide some additional features/benefits to the blade and especially the surface other than dissipating heat quickly and possibly changing the inner tensions of the blade?
How about stresstesting these blades to see how durable they are? I'd imagine some are more brittle than other.
I feel like this would be fun to do with other steels to see the difference like 1095 and 5160 spring steel
Definitely want to see a part two
Thumbnail.... chef's kiss. I clicked only for thumbnail, good job
Something about this vid made me nostalgic. Maybe the relatively low quality mic over high quality footage reminding me of fun TV shows back then
Shout out to Nate for the idea. Well done, Alec.
i was taught filtered bacon grease could make a nice quenching fluid with some cleaning and pre warming.
I made similar experiment with the steel that I mostly make my knives from (N690). Unsurprisingly I got the best result with the recommended quenching medium but all other options worked reasonably well too, including air quenching and plate quenching - they were ever so slightly softer than the oil-quenched sample, but still hard enough for good blade. Thus for thin blades from this steel I am using plate quenching to reduce warp, and for thicker blades I use oil.
In agriculture they use “wetting agents” or surfactants to break the surface tension of water and help it get into plants or soil better. It would be interesting to see what a water quench treated with a surfactant would do to a blade.
I have heard that used motor oil is a good quenching liquid.
Don't just check the blades for hardness, but also strength. Quenching too quickly can make your blade so hard that is becomes brittle.
Jello, hot sauce, milk, jam, mustard, pickle brine... and actually I'm curious to see if there's a difference between alcohol types/proofs. Like, which quenches better, wine or whiskey? I have no idea why this is popping into my head now but there it is.
ice cream; various motor oils; algae slime water; bone broth with gelatin; glycerin; hydrogen peroxide at 5%; Oobleck; rust removal catalyst; flux
Here's a challenge, forge an Estwing hammer into a knife, without destroying the blue handle. Doing that with the leather handle versions would be easier because the leather could be removed then put back. A whole set of kitchen knives with blue Estwing Saf-T-Shape handles sized appropriately would be very nice.
Wonderful video!
Suggestions if you ever try this again:
Soy sauce
Water based lube
Egg whites
Corn syrup
Distilled water
Cider/Beer
Crushed Ice
Custard
I was hoping for some used motor oil, as a cheap readily available option and for a crazy one, that ultra fine silica dust (sand-ish) they use for tempered glass. Aluminium dust would make a great heat sink, but I'm not sure it will survive red hot steel.
I use 1 part motor oil and 1 part diesel, works well
maybe quench in mercury? Quenching in some acids or bases like amonia could be interessting too. I highliy recomend a gasmask. Glycerin would be interessting too. And the stuff wich is more viskose than water, but thats also highly flamable, like octan, hexan etc.
I have been curious about quenching in acidic liquid since learning about Sparta and Lycurgus, he is said to have abolished silver and gold coin, replacing it with iron coin that had been quenched in vinegar to render the iron brittle and unusable and keep it from being reforged
fascinating subject but I think 80CRV (similar carbon to 1080) is a relatively forgiving steel to try this with...as would be 1084 but if you tried this with 5160 or 4140 then you would almost certainly have problems. Still a thing to use the correct quench remembering that Alex's blade blanks are also properly annealed.
These liquids don’t warp your blades ❌
Alex is just a really good smith and builds even blades that lead to minimal warping ✅
Other quenching substances to try:
- Pee
- Wine
- Bleach (or other strong cleaning product, perhaps one that won't give off deadly fumes)
- Granulated Sugar
- Mercury
Ok so the mercury is an insane idea, but I'm putting it anyway. Not that bleach wouldn't also be insane, but some kind of vaguely potent cleaner could be doable.
Okay, possible quench options: eggs, urine, salt water, ink, diluted toothpaste, soy sauce, milk, vinegar, cement, jello, oil based salad dressing. Please have a good think before trying any of these since I haven't.
as someone who has issues with the sight of blood, thank you. still very cool to watch.
I asked Cody once a couple years ago to try quenching metal in cooled liquid mercury and he said he was interested but I think he forgot.
With the very high thermal conductivity of a metal, and a minimal vapor jacket because of the higher boiling point, it should quench insanely fast. Might even manage to make amorphous metal.
@@awashburn6944 Yeah wouldn't really be quenching but dripping molten steel on to of the mercury. Which wouldn't necessarily work because if it's solid you can force it down but as a liquid, steel will float on mercury.
try diff types of oils, one guy that adam savage worked with uses canola oil i believe. try diff cooking oils, used and un used motor oil, etc.
A few liquids to try quenching blades in in the future are;
Urine
Guinness
Sump Oil
Diesel
Acetone
Wine (red, white and /or bubbly)
Turpentine
Fruit Juice of some sort.
Hopefully these liquids will produce some more interesting results for yourself
Ketchup is a non-Newtonian fluid. Basically when no force is applied ketchup becomes thicker / harder /solidish. When force is applied ketchup becomes thinner / softer / liquidy. Yes that's why you have to shake the bottle of ketchup to be able to use it. I'm thinking you can get a quench in ketchup if you were able to move the blade quick enough to apply forced the ketchup. Oobleck is also a non-Newtonian fluid. Which is just cornstarch and water. But it acts the opposite of ketchup. No Force applied to oobleck the thinner / softer / liquidy it is. The more Force applied to it the thicker / harder / and solid it becomes. It would be cool to see you to try to quench in oobleck.
I read this book series about elemental dragons and their riders. The riders can draw power from the dragons, and once the bond gets strong enough the rider is tasked with making dragon steel. A rider will fail at doing this nearly a dozen times, its so difficult to get right. It has to be forged by your dragons breath, and quenched in something pertaining to the power you share.
The main character has lunar powers, so he forged his blade under a full moon, and quenched it in a perfectly still bay that reflected the moon perfectly, dipping it right into the moons reflection.
The other main character is a daughter of flame, so they quenched hers is already boiling water created from her dragon