How to Heat Treat 1080 / 1084 - The Most Forgiving Steel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2019
- Today we learn how to heat treat 1080 / 1084! In my opinion this steal is the most forgiving steel to start off with in knife making. You can make some extremely effective, durable knives with this cheap carbon steel. One of the major advantages of 1084 is that you can heat treat it in your home forge with good results.
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1:06 - Basic HT Terms | 3:09 - Snapping a Quenched Blade | 4:10 - Flexing a Tempered Blade | 5:26 - Step By Step HTing a 1080 Knife
The only video i felt i actually learned anything about heat treating after watching 10+ videos on the subject. Thanks for this!
You're very welcome!
This is one of, if not THE most thorough and down-to-earth videos on heat treating out there. IMMENSELY helpful for a beginner like me. It's obvious how much planning and thought you put into organizing and producing the video, and it paid off. Seriously one of the best channels out there. Thanks man!
Wow, thanks a million man! Glad you got something out of this one. Cheers
Man ive been behind on watching TH-cam for a while. Your channel has come a long way!! Video quality is way up! I gotta say your move from forge to oil is the fastest ive ever seen😳 im pretty sure the blade was air quenched from the 1000mph air rushing by on the way to the oil😂 1080/1084 is such an underrated steel. Its so easy to dial in. 👍👍
Hey man, really appreciate that. I've been working on the quality. Still going through some older footage now on some videos, but eventually it will all be 1080p (got a new camera). I switched my editing system to Resolve too (free), which has ben really nice. I’m still having some issues here and there (some reason it scaled up my water in my WEN sharpener video today). You’re comment on my quench speed cracked me up! Yeah, I try to do it fast! I just ordered me some Parks #50 so I’m curious to see if this will change my hardness results. One of these days I’ll get an oven like you! I appreciate your oven review video.
JKeetonKnives i noticed a difference when switching to parks. It's definitely a thin oil. The oven has been great so far. Its nice to be able to do whatever you want whenever you want. It does take a long time to heat up though. Especially for anything over 1500 degrees. Im sure the 220v version would be better in that area.
@@OUTDOORS55 Did you notice a slightly harder rock well hardness? more consistency? or just a different quench experience? I'm going to the parks 50 mainly for the consistency... I've read that canola can degrade over time... your first 5 quenches may yield different results than your last 5 quenches. Good to know about the 110 oven... I'll go 220 when I get mine. USA Knife Maker has a "knifedogs" oven for $971 before shipping... it's not huge, but likely big enough for the work I do. (14'' deep)
Damn two knife legends in one comment. Can one of you make a video on heat treating in a coal fire and tempering long blades thanks
This video got me to follow through with buying the supplies I need and hopfully making knives soon, much appreciated!
Never seen such a crystal clear explanation. Thanks a lot for this video.
Sir, I really appreciate your comment. Means a lot to me. Thank you for stopping by!
I'm glad that I found your channel. As a newbie, I'm glad to see I'm doing my heat treats correctly. Thanks for the info.
Johnny Guerra cheers man! Thanks for watching. Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent tutorial!!! Thank you!! I have learned a great deal from you TH-cams. I a newbie and you and others have been a great asset. When I get a shop setup, I will use you clean, neat shop as the standard to strive for!!
Thank you very much David! I appreciate that! I try to keep a clean, organized shop
i revisit this video from time to time for a refresher. Still probably the most informative channels on youtube.
Thank you very much!
I'm just starting out and this was exactly what I needed! Great video, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Great job, you put all of the good factual information that is scattered around the web into one well-done video
Thank you sir!
Really great video. One of the best explanations I've ssen. Love the channel!
Glad you liked it! Thank you sir!
Great video as with all your other videos you are easy to understand and cover all basic steps which gives confidence to the beginner keep it up, thanks for the inspiration from an Aussie fan
Heck yeah John! Really happy you enjoyed this one. Cheers to Australia from Texas
Super excited that I have found your channel. I have yet to forge a blade. I have 5 blades (1080) ground, profiled and ready to heat treat. Just finished building my forge last weekend. After the holidays I plan on using your forge burner video to build my own. Thanks alot, gonna binge for a while on your channel and try to soak up some knowledge. Thanks and keep them coming.👍
Hey man, I really appreciate that! I'm happy it's helping you out. Let me know how it all works out for you. Thanks for watching! Have a good day!
Amazing video. I always read Stacy's advice on Bladeforums. His advice is great, and seeing it in video format is awesome. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you sir!
Thanks for doing this video and be as detailed as you were. I was able to take a piece of stock, hack saw, files and make a fully heat treated, scaled and sharpened leather utility knife. Now I am hooked!
Heck yeah Michael! Cheers
I love this channel. Outstanding video.
Thank you so much sir!
Excellent video. I have read and watched many heat treat videos, but very few use a home propane forge to heat treat. For small knives I use a two brick forge, but longer knives I use my larger forge made from a propane tank. Temper like you do. I use 1084 also. Your details help remind me of the correct method step by step. Thanks for a great heat treating video!
Hey Joseph! Appreciate the praise. Just going though the process of making this video reminded me of some little things that I forgot about! Don't get me wrong... I'm saving up for a HT oven, but I feel like you can get a pretty damn good HT with the forge! Bladesmiths have been doing it for 100s of years. 👍
Great video and information. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us. Davin
Hey Davin! Really appreciate the comment. Glad you enjoyed this video.
great Video Red, i found this very interesting and helpful for my first 1080 knife. Thanks
Heck yeah! Thanks man. Glad you liked it. Have a great week!
Great information, and thank you for explaining it so well!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video and explanation as always. 1084 is a great steel and I used a lot of it when I started out. I now use AEB-L a lot and have to send it out to HT, but have been contemplating getting an oven soon.
Thanks Nick! I'd love an oven too! Just gotta save my dollars. I feel like for those guys thinking about making their first couple of knives 1080 is a no brainier! I still use it almost exclusively.
That was awesome man thank you as a new hobbiest that was the most clear and concise walk through on heat treat thank you for a great video
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers Mike!
Thanks for the great video. You just helped me get the heat treat right on my first tempered blade!
Glad I could help!
Great tutorial on heat treat.spot on👍🏻
Thank you very much!
Your forge setup looks really clean. As an absolute beginner, I'd love to see a video on how to make one like that. Great content my man!
Hey Oliver! Thanks for the comment. I wish I was making videos back when I built my forge. It pains me to think about taking it apart just to make a video though. I do have some videos on how I put together the burner! Forced Air Burner - th-cam.com/video/WtCWbl-Q5fo/w-d-xo.html Venturi Burner - th-cam.com/video/SAP8Xho_I6w/w-d-xo.html
I would also love to see more info on your setup. Any chance you could do a walk around with some background on how you built it without taking it apart? Definitely a fan of your channel!
Very informative! Nicely done! Thanks.
Thank you very much and thanks for taking the time to comment! Cheers man.
Greetings from NE Mississippi. Great video! Glad I found your channel.
Awesome! Thank you!
currently im making my first knife with 5160 and this really helped me with the heat treatment, you re a great teacher and love your videos. keep up with the good work
greetings from buenos aires, argentina !!
Awesome man! Argentina is pretty far away! I will say 5160 has some different heat treating properties than 1080. It would be worth your time researching the details because I’m not as versed with 5160. Cheers! Thanks for watching
Live your videos. Thank you for putting such informative videos out. Glad I support your Patreon
Much appreciated! Glad you're enjoying them Tobey!
using 1084 for the first time next week. Great information and presented nicely. When tempering in my oven, I put all of my cast iron skillets stacked on the lower rack. Keeps the ramping up/down at a minimum.
Very cool! Cheers sir!
Great video. It told me exactly what I needed to know. Keep up the good work!
Glad it helped!
Your shop is always nice and neat. Things appear to be set up well and I like the layout. I think your organization tendencies no doubt carry through to your end result or product. ~Well done.
Thank you very much! And thanks for watching!
Thanks. I was looking for this exact information.
Awesome! Really glad this video could help you out! Thanks for commenting and letting me know. Cheers man.
Very good I learned new things thanks
Glad to hear it!
Some very good information. Thanks for posting. A year and 6 months and I’ll be making knifes.
Hey Grady, cheers man! Thanks for watching. Glad you enjoyed this one!
Always like watching your vids.
Had a discussion with a bloke that wants to make he's own knives today and he asked me about steels as well. My go to is high carbon steels. Always have been and always will. And first thing I told him was to get some SAE 5160 spring steel. Such an amazing and extremely tough steel. Also super forgiving. People are scared to heat treat and yes, alot of time and effort goes into making a nice knife just to have it fail on you. So that's why so many people buy steel that has been hardened and tempered already and they just do stock removal. I see that as a problem because while cutting the steel you can over heat it and mess up the temper. And then they don't know why and just leave it. I take my hat off to you for being able to make videos like this.
From a fellow blade smith (Cape town South Africa), I salute you bud!
Practice makes perfect and as I like to say.... "Remember your 7 p's.
Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.....
Thanks for the comment sir! Cheers from Texas!
Really good video. Thanks man
Glad you liked it!
nice. really really nice. most helpful video for beginner like me. thx, bro.
Glad to hear that!
Very informative. Thank you sir.
Glad it was helpful!
Great info!!! Thanks for spreading the knowledge!!!😎😎🔥🔥🔥
Glad it helped!
awesome video thanks i will be heat treating my first knife this weekend.
Awesome! Good luck sir!
oh and great video by the way. Very good if starting out, nice and clear.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent, thanks for the video.
Don McCann cheers man! Thanks for watching!!
Great video.. very informative. I use the same color chart that you put up and it really helps. I just started knife making and went with the parks 50 quench oil. I was gifted some 1095 and the first couple quenches didn’t go well. I watched the color more closely and the next time it went perfectly. Keep up the good work my friend.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video! Thanks for making.
Glad you liked it sir!
Great video, thanks for making it!
Glad you liked it sir!
thank you so much for the great video! i will use this information in the process of making my first knife! ☺
Good luck man!
Very helpful thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video! Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Very good class! Thanks for sharing!
My pleasure!
all the best mate, loved your style
Thanks a ton!
Such a helpful video thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Very good info. Thanx👊
Glad it was helpful!
Great video!
Thank you sir!
Great information. Thank you for making this vid...
Hey Chris, glad you found it useful! Thanks for watching!
Yeah dude. So much convoluted information on this out there. Nice to finally get simple and concise steps on quenching and tempering 1095.
Thanks man. I will say 1095 has some differences then 1084 if you want to get the most out of it. I do think you can get a decent HT on 1095 with these steps; but to get it 100% right, I'm fairly sure you need soaking times; which is pretty hard to do with a forge.
1085 and 80CRV are the easiest forge HTs to my knowledge
@@RedBeardOps well shit, I misread your title haha
Got a video on 1095?
@@doodysdaggers I do not...but this link will allow you to search bladeforums.... which will have many threads on it. Good luck! cse.google.com/cse?cx=012217165931761871935:iqyc7cbzhci
Good explanation. Enjoyed the video and very informative!
Thank you very much! Glad you liked the video! Cheers 🙌
JKeetonKnives what’s your opinion on doing a knife out of 4140? I got a scrap piece of 4140 that’s 1/4” thick flat ground out of our machine shop where I work. Just wonder how hard it would be to work as a stock removal project. I don’t know how it would perform as a finished product. Thank you for your time.
sirmaximus100 I don’t have any experience working with 4140... so I can’t really say for sure. I know you can get it hard so that’s promising. 1/4” is pretty darn thick
Very good info brother. Look forward to more videos and tool reviews. Not sure if you have already, but I am getting interested in Kydex sheath making utilizing minimal or homemade tools. Thanks again!
Wayne Walker cheers man! Glad you liked it! This is pretty much how I do kydex now days: th-cam.com/video/0lLexdhVyG4/w-d-xo.html
I really liked your vid. very informative
Glad it was helpful!
Very well explain thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Great job thanks
Glad you liked it!
Wow! That was a ton of info I can use. If your not a teacher, you should be! I’m a yankee but I’ve been in the Deep South for over 40 of my 60 years. Great video!
Thanks man! Glad you liked it. I learned most of what I know off of bladeforums. The guys there are really a wealth of information. My goal with this video was to put it all together in an easily digestible format for the new makers (and intermediates like me). Really appreciate your comment! Cheers.
BCtruck, rebuild, repair,repurpose him and Walter sorrells helped me a lot
@@benwan5425 Thank you sir!
I told him a while back that he might even be a better teacher than knife maker....and i was really hoping it didn't sound like a jab on his knife making skills
I use 1095/5160/80crv2 & 1095 with 15n20 most of the time. I harden at 1600 & temper at 500. I almost always have a good knife blank at these numbers. I do some normalization before hardening. I also use warm olive oil as a quinch medium.
Hell yeah bro ! Fellow texan here !
Heck yeah! Glad you liked this one. Have a great week in the best state, sir!
Thanks for sharing 👏
Glad you found it useful!
Great video
Hey Robby, thank you very much! Glad you liked it.
I've been watching your videos for the last couple months as I'm starting my journey into making knives. I always love the fact that you explain what you're doing and not just post Instagram unarrated videos.
I built my first forge last weekend and today just heat treated my first two knives in 1095. I'm hoping it works! Currently, they are tempering.
What I'd really like to know/see is the difference in treating 1095 vs 1084. Is there really that much Of a difference? If I treat 1095 the same as 1084, how will it come out?
Thanks
Heck yeah Mark, glad you're enjoying them. You should be able to make "perfectly good" knives with this method and 1095, however, it's not optimal. When it comes to 1095 to get the best HT on it you really need to "soak" the blade at the target temp. This generally requires a HT oven. For this reason I recomend 1084 or maybe 1075 as a home heat treat steel.
Great video 👍
Thanks 👍
Great video! Very knowledgeable about everything. 1 question though I see you have a piece of square tubing in your forge. Is that to prevent a direct flame from touching your blade and therefore getting a even heat?
Ronald Derrez 100% right. I use that piece of tubing as a “muffle pipe” to shield the blade from the direct flame. Gives you a more even heat. It’s capped on the back. Cheers man! Thanks for watching
Well explained
Thank you very much!
Fine video... BTW, I've recently started watching 'the UKbladeshow' metallurgist Graham Clark about heat treating and tempering... Really good stuff like you don't need to normalize three times, just anneal and cycle once 200 above critical is all the grain refinement needed to be ready for quench... Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the info!
Good video. I picked up a couple of used belt grinders (2"x48" and 2"x72") for general use, but now I want to try and make a couple of knives for myself. I bought a couple of 1080 1 1/2" x1/8"x12" strips of steel to give it a shot. As a beginner is it easier to cut my basic shape and hollow grind and then heat treat? I figure the steel will be softer to work with on the grinders to get the desired hollow grind.
Hey man, people do it both ways. I'd say get the knife 90% ground, HT, then finish grind and sand for your first try.
Thanks for the info. So for the normalisation you start from the upper end, work your way down to the temperature that you will be quenching the blade on the third cycling. I thought that your last normalisation heat would be sub critical or below where a magnet is still sticking to the steel for a fine grain structure. I need to experiment. I will try the above.
Very well explained. As someone who's been making knives for 3 years now. Your spot on. Good information for the newer folks.
Jim Patterson thank you sir! Happy I got it right! I hope this helps some guys just starting out!
Thanks, good video. God bless.
Glad it helped!
Vous êtes un professionnel artistes coul 👍😉
Merci!
Thanks from th UK
Glad you liked it!
@ 5:50 just wanted to let you know that's not normalizing, that's thermal cycling to refine grain. You only need to normalize once, you thermal cycle multiple times.
Good video, Stacy is very helpful and knows his stuff, he's always quick to help me with any problems I have, I've learned a lot from him.
He is a great source!
LOL, I'll catch Y'all :) Great Vid I didn't know it was ok to speed up cooling during tempering, good vid with great info that will everyone that watches.
Thank you very much! Good old bladeforums.com research for the win. Ton of useful info on there. Sped up my process significantly when I learned that one.
Thank You
Welcome!
Your final comments had me rolling on the floor. I lived in Texas for about 30 years and I still remember the first words my ex-father-in-law said to me when I first met him. "You know the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee? A Yankee comes to Texas for a visit. A Damn Yankee comes to Texas and stays." Well as King George would say, "All my Ex's LIve in Texas. After retiring I moved back up North to beat the heat. So in the eyes of my ex-father-in-law I'm just a Yankee, y'all. LOL Keep up the good work out yonder in Midland.
Hah! Happy you liked that! I love Texas! Would be 100% happy never to have to move away. Thanks for watching, Gerald!
Nicely done. Well thought out planned presentation. Good Information. See ya'll directly...
Cheers man! Thanks for watching. I hope it can get some new makers off the sidelines and into the shop to try out knife making.
I managed to make a spring temper on a 5160 sword a few years ago, just by guessing. Maybe Lucky but I think it's pretty easy to heat treat as well
Great video this helped me a lot. I have a couple questions. The first knife I did I was worried that I wasn't high enough above non magnetic. After seeing your color chart it looks like I was up around 1700*. But then I tested with a file and it felt harder but the file would still bit in just a little bit. Lastly I tempered it at 213*c which is a little higher then yours. What should I do? Can I go back and heat treat it again? Thanks for the help.
You can HT again. Make sure you file on the same part a bit. Sometimes there is a thin layer of soft decarb on the blade. The colors can be deceiving... the lighting in your shop can play a role. If I were you I'd quench some test pieces and break them in the vise to verify they hardened. That should give you an idea of your colors, etc. With 1084 just getting it a little above non-magnetic and quenching will likely work fine for you since it's so forgiving. Be careful with the oven you're using. Make sure to pre heat it before putting your knife in it.
Great information and well researched as usual. How about 1095? Can it be done the same way? thanks
Hey Ken, thank you. You can HT 1095 this way and have a decent knife, however, to get everything out for the steel soaking at temp is ideal... so forging heat treating 1095 is difficult. This is why 1084 and 80CRV are better choices for the forge.
Hi,that was a great vid. Im wondering ,tho, why you would normalize if you are doing stock removal on a commercial knife steel (1084 in my case)
Just to cover all my bases. In reality it's not necessary.
What the hell man, that was great!
Thanks a lot!
Thank you sir! Glad you liked it!
Great video but many of us use Celsius. It would be great I f you could flash up the conversion on the video. Cheers from Australia.
Thanks Colin, I'll try in future videos!
PERFECT video breakdown on info every beginning knife maker MUST know! THANNKS!! #SweetBeard
Cheers man! Glad you liked it!
Great info and precise. We appreciate it! I’m making my first knife from a chainsaw blade. Does it need heat treated? Which steel are they? I say y’all too.
I'm not sure on that. I'd say yes on the HT.
I waited and waited for that blade to snap lol kinda like waiting for a good sneeze that never came 😂 great, very informative video!
LOL, thank you for your comment! Really glad you enjoyed the video. It's always suspenseful when you're bending blades!
Thanks for the video! I’m looking to get into knife making. My father used to make knives and has a bunch of 01 left over. Is this a good beginner steel or should I buy some 1080/1084
Personally I'd start with 1080/1084; 01 takes soak times to get the most out of it.
A blacksmith friend will put finished trinkets hooks with scale in vinegar for a few hours and a scale rubs right off. Keep an eye on a blade though. Too long and the blade may develop pits. You can experiment with home store steel as it always comes with scale. This is for those that do not have a mill or other ways of removing scale. Still have to flatten each side. Thanks for the great video.
Thanks for watching sir!
Hey RB, Thanks for referring me to this video. It too was a big help. At the 4:37 mark, you really have that blade bending. If we temper properly, will the knife return to being straight after you take the pressure off?
Hey man, it depends on how far you go. There is always a limit. It's a balance too. If you temper at a lower temp, you'll have a harder blade that may hold the edge better... but it will have a high chance of chipping on the edge and breaking when bending. If you temper at a higher temp, you'll have a more durable blade, but it may not hold an edge as well. It will bend better in general at higher tempering temps, but if you go "too high" it may stay bent! ... lesson is that you have to play around with it depending on what you want. ~400F is a good tempering spot to start for a 1084 knife
Great video thank you, as others have said you would make a great teacher. My question is at the start of the video you mentioned annealing. However when you went through the process in the second part, the practical lesson, annealing wasn't mentioned. Where does the annealing fit in?
Hey Graham, I apologize for that. I'm using steel that comes to me annealed. Annealing would be required if you forged out your blade or if you were working with something like a file that started off really hard. Thanks for watching!
@@RedBeardOps Thank you, that makes sense now. I also buy it from a knife supplier so assume it would be annealed as well.
@@grahamturner2469 Yep, I think you're in the clear!
I've actually had really good results with 1095 in a forge. Parks 50 was definitely the way to go. I grind my blades to 0.020 and the main bevels are ground from 4-7 degrees per side and it will cut nails all day with very little edge damage
Awesome Josh! Glad to hear your results. Thanks for commenting, too!
What do you mean cut nails? 🤔
So interesting. Did you make a video on a diy forge ?
Hey JC, I had built my forge before starting my TH-cam journey. So sadly I don't have a video on it. I've been tempted to re-build it, but find it a little crazy to take apart or replace a perfectly good item! lol
Thank You
-New Guy
Heck yeah Kevin! Glad you liked it.
I really appreciate this video especially on normalizing and quenching just using a forge. I do not have a heat treat oven and probably never will and everyone that I’ve run across so far basically says if you don’t have one you’re putting out an inferior product or just don’t make knives at all. I just don’t see how not being able to or not being willing to afford a $3000 heat treat oven should stop you from pursuing a hobby …again thank you
You can make a heck of a good knife with just a forge; especially with practice. I'd say stick to steels that are easier to forge heat treat like 1084 and 80CRV... bring the lights down; use a muffle pipe and magnet....
Also... maybe test your knives to see how you did. You may be able to find a machine shop locally that will hardness test your blades too if you're curious. Good luck!
@@RedBeardOps thanks …. What’s the muffler pipe for ? Put the blade in for even heat ?
@@The-noviceknifemaker exactly. It's just a piece of steel tubing to shield the blade from direct flame. You get more even heating for sure.