Definitely the dumbest of the cards banned. It was made specifically for commander. It is limited to casting your commander. It is sac'd on use... Yeah it can ramp our a commander but it seems like the RC just didn't like the card and wanted it out. My Tinfol Hat says they wanted Sol Ring out as well and WoTC straight up said no.
Those prices are absurd for someone from Eastern Europe like Poland. This ban makes me happy, but I am well beyond the point of doing MTG as my primary TCG, ever since Pinkertons scandal through massive lay offs from Hasbro before Christmas, and all the major issues such as Bloomborrow being absolutely set we all wanted... But all the cool cards were only in collectior boosters with zero chance of pulling them from Play ones. Pokemon TCG doesn't have one turn wins, cheap decks still have a chance against something straight from the Championship, and the overall atmosphere of the community and the game itself is absolutely more friendly. I went to a Pokemon TCG tournament and it felt absolutely less stressful than FNM Commander.
I agree as long as box price fits with the value of cards inside. I would be in for chase cards being worth 20-30$ max. But, WotC would need to drop the price of a play booster box from 240$CAD to 160$CAD. I think it would be good for the gameé More people would play it. I know lot of people who just don't want to play because they hear how much money other people spend on this game and they found it ridiculous. When I say to people that don't know MTG that I know a lot of people that spend more tha 1000$ per year on the game, their jaw drop each time and they say it is ridiculous. Then I tell them I know people who spend 2000-3000$ per year and for them it is almost unbeleivable.
@@mugthemagpie3001 I tried Pokemon before and I got destroyed. MTG is my primary game to play and Pokemon now is for collecting. Still I don't spend thousands on MTG since I just play commander with close friends.
@@endlessorbaggins8223 I honestly don't enjoy the changes made with Play Booster and I just buy singles now. There's just no womp opening Play Booster compared to Set Boosters.
Nadu needed to be banned, it was just broken and caused long turns that led to absolutely nothing. I don't have an opinion on crypt or lotus because nobody in casual plays them, and banning dockside was stupid.
@@Lemon_Squalo been playing with proxies for cEDH on these. Don't regret it one bit. Card games really shouldn't be held to monetary value but for fun and playtime. Collectors really ruin card games because they complain and are gatekeepers for the rest of the people. I've seen this for Yugioh, Pokemon, etc. They're all trash.
@@epicexploration kind of a doomed mentality. They’ve been banning shit for years. With that logic you should just stop buying any kind of TCG. Find something else productive.
Just read that Sheldon was a major voice for Rule 0 being the main way to stop unwanted cards from being played and why the ban list wasn't updated in recent years. He died and it appears the RC decided that they know what the spirit of commander is better than the guy who invented it...
Most of the blame should be on those who didn't have a rule zero session and always refused to. Because it's easy and will make sure that you have fun.
Yes. This wouldn't be such a feels bad if the RC ever fucking did anything. Their inaction created a false sense of security, then they just pop in and screw people out of hundreds of dollars of value. They need to go back to doing nothing.
@nateridgewaymusic Oh no! You definitely win. I'm planning on holding on to it and hope in the future they unban it. Same for my jeweled lotus. I've only played the card once in my deck. So kind stings too. Bought it 3 months ago.
Not quite. I can’t imagine there’s not a single tie between the two groups and the discussion was about the overall design and delivery of Magic with commander as the center - the bans were mentioned for maybe less than a minute ❤️
One of the people on the RC is an employee of WOTC as there has been one on it for several years. They could have also easily banned these cards around when they came out instead of allowing them to go through the print cycle so WOTC didn't lose money and instead the players lost money.
You dont know what you are talking about. The RC and WotC talk with each other all the time and Jim from the RC has confirmed that they were talking with WotC about this ban list for a full year.
@@HometownTcgThere’s no proof backing that kind of claim. It’s highly speculative and misleading. Just get your information right and point the finger at the right group of people. As far as we know the rules committee are the only ones making the ban decisions, and if you’re gonna suggest otherwise you need to back your claims with actual evidence.
The Commander Rules Committee has just moved me to proxies only from here on out. After the sudden hundreds of dollars in losses I took today, I am not giving Wizards a dime more. The only Rules Committee EDH needs is Rule Zero, as it's a social format.
All these people crying “it’s not WOTC it’s the RC” are using semantics. Wizards owns the game and can override the RC whenever they want. So yes, they have control and can also be blamed for this.
I agree, either WOTC is incompetent for allowing these bans in spite of everybody's best interest or they're culpable and have no issue with rugpulling players/collectors who invest in their product.
I have read arround that a memmbrr of the rc sayd that this has been a discusión with wotc for like a year behind the curtain... Still i think this would have not been an issue if they would have first Say a "hey a heads up this cards are on a ban watchlist" first instead of comming out of nowhere.
@lorpuz4664 that would have at least mitigated the damage of these bans and the precedent being set. My only real issue is that, outside of one actually problematic bird, these bans seem to have nothing to do with promoting a healthy format and everything to do with trying to force the "all game pieces should be free" ideology down the collective community's throat by specifically targeting high dollar chase cards that have been used as the draw to sell just about every specialty/collector set for the past year. There are plenty of other ways to promote making the game more affordable that don't involve burning everyone in the community that spent their hard earned money on a reprint master set or collector booster over the past two years.
I am not going to buy Expensive cards anymore or sets containing them, i have a mana crypt, a jeweled lotus and a dockside extortionist, all originals. From today on i am going to proxy everything and so will my playgroup. We are not in for these ban and reprints scams that kill card prices and uses anymore.
Exactly how I feel! Not going to spend hard earned money anymore on magic. What’s the point? Buy cards that will suddenly get banned and can’t be used. No thanks
I highly doubt that wizards hates the second market. They know exactly what they are doing. The cards that got banned were ALL chase cards that wotc knows is highly sought after. They will lose a lot of money in the long run if this ban doesn't get unmade
Started playing with proxies only a couple of years ago and never looked back. My biggest issue with the bans is finding what to replace the cards with 🤷♂️
There needs to be a sincere understanding of the disparity between competitive commander and friendly commander. No, we should not be forced into whatever WOTC’s sales philosophy is with regard to building our decks! If I, and several thousand other people, want to build expensive competitive decks… Then that’s our business! The best way that the company can service. This community is by printing the kinds of cards on an ongoing basis that can work into the existing strategies, thus making decks stronger; or creating cards that are so amazing that the field of competitive players want to create new deck concepts around them. The rules committee just said to every competitive player out here: “hey… We are giving you the bird! This is who we are now, and this is the kind of thing that we’re willing to do to our community. So you don’t matter nearly as much to us, as the company does.” And we all better remember it.
I mean rules committee did say they wouldn't help any more if the flash unbanning didn't alleviate anything. If this isn't not helping then I don't know what is
got these werewolf cards right but I don't have night and day bound car for the werewolfs to function properly I was wondering is it ok to use a day and night cycle from like an app from the playstore or any other way or do I have to have with 100% the night and day bound card
Wizards -"Have 40 decks instead of just 1" Me - [Runs to home depot to buy a 4th Dewalt toolbox] Also got a chuckle out of the "proxies dont buy sealed" mini rant lol. I actually use physical cards as a deck building restriction (been collecting since odyssey sooooooo...... can afford to build from 'on hand' with picking up the occasional neccessity here and there)
We already don't want cEDH decks in an EDH pod... It's likely time to make it a different format. No ban list in cEDH, everyone go nuts. After 6 months, evaluate the health of the new cEDH format and ban accordingly. This gives these newly banned cards some of their value back, opens up a whole new world of deck brewing for cEDH players, and would lower the ceiling on deck power in EDH by maintaining/expanding the current banned list without upsetting the cEDH community.
Mtg is at least 20 million strong. It's maybe about time that there was a divide or rift in the community. I personally divide us into 2 categories. Premier League and Dragon League. Premier league is everything attached to wizards, and their rulings. And Dragon league is everything eternal, and maintains it's own ban lists and competitive play. Premier covers everything new. Limited play with new products, standard, pioneer, established eternal formats such as modern, legacy and vintage, and commander. Dragons are in charge of highlander, pauper, no ban list modern etc... If wizards neglect or abandon stuff, Dragons pick it up. I predict that we'll be hosting our own major tournaments soon. Possibly for straight up cash. Like poker tournaments.
I will play devils advocate and say banning Mana Crypt was a good idea. Why? Commander is supoosed to be not only friendly and casual in sense and approach but also should be reasonably affordable. I had my deck proxied with 40 cards, Mana Crypt one of them, because I had no chance against the decks which had it -- and price of Mana Crypt is absurd for Poland -- as well as it created a massve rift between casual and min-max tryhard players in a lot of instances. This raises howerver a problematic question about one Precon which uses Dockyard, because we do have Precon Commander Party events and now even the LGS is unable to tell if the deck is banned or not (because precon list cannot be changed).
It's kind of funny that the things the RC fails at that WotC actually does do is regular ban/unban cycle. When modern gets bans the modern players tend to just be like "yeah saw that coming" and even get a lot of "why won't they ban that damned ring?!?" a lot. Commander players have gotten used to being able to pull off stupid BS with no consequence ever so long that they can't handle a ban. Even when the bans are like literally the strongest 3 cards (and nadu) in the format.
1. Make high power cards to win games add collection value develop multiple versions of said card/cards. 2. Tell your customer base (This product is not for you) 3. Price Spike said cards needed to win said format with in multiple future sets. 4. Ban said cards that enable winning conditions within said format! Outcome = sale's losses player collection/$$ value from Collector box's = huge losses, market singleton value diminished player confidence in future POWER card/ game pieces = DEAD.
Im glad ive been building my decks without any of these cards anyways. Just can never bring myself to drop that kind of money. However this situation just flat exposes sketchy business practices and im not down with that..
All the had to do was print for standard and balance the pack for draft and the whole thing runs on its own. Instead they are choosing maximum profit over health of the game.
I'm hoping that dockside being banned in Commander leads to a future reprint in a standard set. He's honestly mediocre 1v1 but in a modern/pioneer/standard meta where there's a decent artifact deck, he can be a solid sideboard card.
Honestly if they are keeping Sol Ring because it's Iconic to EDH then they should keep Dockside as it's Iconic to cEDH or if they keep Sol Ring they should have kept Mana Crypt as it has been around just as long as Sol Ring for EDH. Hell they could just ban the iconic fast mana of cEDH Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt and keep Dockside as the problem sorts itself
I don't like that Magic The Gathering has cards that can target more then one opponent. But none of the modes include teams. Like 2v2. which would be sweet. And make the turn system go 1-3-2-4 1-2 v 3-4 Cause many cards will be like, opponents do such and such. But yet all the modes are just 1v1 so its always just an opponent. I really want a 2v2 mode for MTG Arena
Wizards secretly works with the Rules Committee. They knew ahead of time about these bans. Wizards flooded the market with the Festival in a Box with the 3 Collectors packs. Gee....what great timing. It also gave time for the RC and Wizards employees to dump their banned cards on the secondary market ahead of time. 20m to 100m was lost. Magic/Commander is a great game. It's a shame that we cannot trust Wizards & the RC now because they clearly MANIPULATE the market to screw over LGS and the players. It is getting to a point now why should I buy expensive sealed boxes where the value is not there and now cards on the secondary market tank big time because of so many reprints and now bannings. Expect several more ridiculous price increase for 2025. Another thing is there are too many products released like every month. I can still play Magic with the cards I have and buy some proxies. The collectibility of this game is slowly fading because of GREED!!! Thank you for the video.
Solid take on all this. But where were the Thassa and bowmaster bans? The idiotic double standard of sol ring being ok, but not the none ubiquitous cards? Honestly if you follow most of the individual personas of the committee through their content creation or social media. It feels at best disingenuous at best and grifting at worst. Playing down to the lowest common denominator. The amount of times I’ve heard things along a game being a story or something along a board game experience is honestly sad. It weaponizes the rule 0 factor and creates alot of social engineering. Just the 2¢.
This may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me. I give Hasbro a decent amount of my money each year and I’m thinking that stops with this. Reprints is one thing but to ban a card whose literal only purpose is the format it was banned in and was THE pull in commander masters. It was the middle finger to vintage in 2022 and today it’s the middle finger to cEDH. Well I’m giving the middle finger to wotc. Good riddance.
Might just be me, but as a person that fully wrote off the rules committee(and like most if the playerbase) after the companion thing, this upheaval is hilarious and im glad people are suffering.
Honestly, most play groups banned most of those cards a long time ago. Crypt…busted Goblin…very busted Lotus…probably least busted but still gross. Nadu…basically a misprint. These cards all deserved the ban they got. Honestly, all forms of mass land destruction should also catch a ban.
These bans make no sense for commander. It is already a format that people talk about power ratings of decks and Cedh vs edh. All of the buying new product for commander still happens while people build multiple decks. one or more are power houses while the rest of cheaper, newer, or themed fun decks. The online community is heavily based on this idea as well.
I find it hilarious when the very same people who are mad at these bannings are demanding to ban Sol Ring! The most accessible fast mana. It highlights the entitlement and sheer hubris of some mtg players.
Honestly, from all the MTG-Lore/Analysis-Videos, MtG was! magical in the past. But nowdays? Its just Funko Pop Card Edition. Just get every IP they can get sell cards. There is nothing "magical" oder fantasy anymore. Its just one brand after other and cheeky lies like the "Value-Boosters" The last thing what was magical, where New Phyrexia and the work that they did with the language. Probably the last thing they put so much effort in it.
Pretty rough bannings imo. Granted casuals can do whatever but that's typically only done between friends - folks u get with on a regular basis. But for the casual pick up game - it's not going to happen. It's sit down - have a deck that doesn't take 2 attorneys to sypher and let's go.
The biggest problem is that these cards arnt even a problem EDH is the slowest format and its all one ofs so fast mana is good for the format but the problem is WOTC wont reprint them.
This is wizards fault for not giving these cards proper reprints. Making these cards extremely expensive. The sol ring thing is bc they reprint it in every commander precon.
@@MustangMike52It’s not good for CEDH either. Yes those cards speed up the game, but any card that is in insert in ANY deck at that level removes a level of creativity from deckbuilding. Any card that’s an auto-include is bad for the format.
What I love about fast mana and tutors is the ability to tune up and down decks depending on what you play. If it's a trash commander with a hard, slow, bad but fun theme, you can add some tutors and fast mana to bridge the gap to playability. And if you play a strong commander with a strong shell, you can just remove some tutors and fast mana to scale it back. It's literally the Guage you use to adjust power level.
clearly people are buy box and collector box the number are there and the game is more popular than every and it in a healthy place. For the record i buy boxes too
I for one, am sick of all these click baiting videos talking about how WotC is to blame, they are in the sense they made these cards, Dockside, Jeweled Lotus and Nadu have zero downside, and should be gone, they shouldn't have been printed in the first place. So many videos ranting about how WotC is screwing the players over. The problem isn't that the rules committee banned these cards, it's that they were printed at all. The only one I take issue with banning is Mana Crypt, that one has a legitimate downside, even in Commander. I've seen several games lost by the player who cast it, just due to losing enough life to put them in the danger zone. With 3 other players at the table, it's not the biggest issue. The issue is the hyper pushed cards WotC likes to print, specifically in the premium sets in a effort to gouge every last cent from the player base. But blaming WotC for the bans is ludicrous and just outright misinformed. I didn't even watch this or the others past the first one I tried to stomach, I'm posting this due to the clickbaiting of the title/thumbnail of the video.
Boomer magic? 🤣 didn’t think certain aspects of MTG had to have a age reference. Glad I’m not a boomer or less might’ve been offended! Let’s just stick calling it cardboard crack eh? 🤣
@exposfan94movies every time I have played commander anywhere there has been a rule zero conversation. The only exception is events put on by a store. So in my experience, yeah, the rules are a suggestion for commander.
Both wotc and rcr are to blame. One is using commander as a cash cow with no worry of the consequences and the other is a group of unelected players who have decided they want everyone to play casual commander like they do.
@@valgeir80 I have been playing since 1994. So please with all of that. Shit happens. I play the stock market so ups and downs are a reality. RISK vs Reward bro. Don't Assume.
@@valgeir80 you're basing money off a company that can change anything any time any way they want. Its cardboard at the end of the day. Just fancy. You will get over it and find other things to invest in. Like gold. That is not defined by any COMPANY. You want secure investments. that's the way to go.
@@metaldudebuff92 there are no consequences when you own the game. You can do what you want when you want. It sucks for you but the same thing happens in life you cant control it all you can do is whine about it if it doesn't go your way. I have been playing since 94. So please with all of this.
All this people crying, and are discovering that their Mtg is like yugioh with predator managment. Mass reprint, mass pimp, overflowing product and ban chase cards they used to sold product. (Example: Ban Flower Baronness from Rarity collection 1). I don’t understand people who wake up now and discover that their tcg is able to do that, while they done worst before and since many years 🤷🏻♂️
Who are they to tell us all to play slower games. I like fast games and i like fast mana. F slow games, F cry babies that called for this ban, and F the RC.
I could go on a spiel, but instead, I will give the TLDR; Good bans. Nadu was miserable gameplay and took too long. Get it out of here. Fast mana is mandatory and a must include. If you are going to ban cards while an edh and cedh split does not officially exist within the ruleset, then these kinds of cards are sort of the only ones you can ever ban. Good on the CAG on actually doing something instead of being a joke group that has no say or power.
My friend group and I will no longer be buying future mtg product unless these bans are reversed. What’s the point of spending hard earned money to buy cards that will be banned that can’t be used. No thanks
This is my expectation. I doubt wotc was unaware of these bans. And when these new slightly worse or slightly better cards show up, there will be convenient holes in people's decks they can fill.
@@exposfan94movies Oh I don’t play legacy, what cards are ruining the format? Just out of curiosity 🙂 also they might be a legacy player that has no friends 😀
But they can pull the plug on the RC at any time and make their own list 😂 Considering the RC was the reason Nadu was changed they are in comunicationa
Banning Jeweled Lotus is the most damning Ban, Jeweled lotus could only be played in ONE FORMAT, and now it can't be played in a single format, it's a Dead Card.
My issue with the format in general is the lack of rules or structure. You can't rely on "feels" to make sure you get a good game. The players shouldn't be the ones determining balance. Imagine doing that in any other game and thinking that's okay. Imagine playing Street Fighter 6 and sitting down to play with a group of dudes but to you only playing Ryu, Ken and Chun Li is fair. Rest of the roster is broken, and not fun. You'd be laughed at. Yet there are bros in stores right now who are doing that in commander. The rules committee is the problem for multiple reasons. Other formats in MTG have subformats - so that balance and expectations can be found. You don't walk up to a draft with a legacy deck and expect a fair game. This whole kumbaya discussing "Power level"is bullshit and is ruining the format. Banning fast mana isn't going to fix commander. They're not addressing the actual issues. My favorite thing is when someone has house rules for how to build my deck, so that they can win better. It's hilarious. How does that make sense in literally any other format, let alone game?
There needs to be a sincere understanding of the disparity between competitive commander and friendly commander. No, we should not be forced into whatever WOTC’s sales philosophy is with regard to building our decks! If I, and several thousand other people, want to build expensive competitive decks… Then that’s our business! The best way that the company can service. This community is by printing the kinds of cards on an ongoing basis that can work into the existing strategies, thus making decks stronger; or creating cards that are so amazing that the field of competitive players want to create new deck concepts around them. The rules committee just said to every competitive player out here: “hey… We are giving you the bird! This is who we are now, and this is the kind of thing that we’re willing to do to our community. So you don’t matter nearly as much to us, as the company does.” And we all better remember it.
There needs to be a sincere understanding of the disparity between competitive commander and friendly commander. No, we should not be forced into whatever WOTC’s sales philosophy is with regard to building our decks! If I, and several thousand other people, want to build expensive competitive decks… Then that’s our business! The best way that the company can service. This community is by printing the kinds of cards on an ongoing basis that can work into the existing strategies, thus making decks stronger; or creating cards that are so amazing that the field of competitive players want to create new deck concepts around them. The rules committee just said to every competitive player out here: “hey… We are giving you the bird! This is who we are now, and this is the kind of thing that we’re willing to do to our community. So you don’t matter nearly as much to us, as the company does.” And we all better remember it.
There needs to be a sincere understanding of the disparity between competitive commander and friendly commander. No, we should not be forced into whatever WOTC’s sales philosophy is with regard to building our decks! If I, and several thousand other people, want to build expensive competitive decks… Then that’s our business! The best way that the company can service. This community is by printing the kinds of cards on an ongoing basis that can work into the existing strategies, thus making decks stronger; or creating cards that are so amazing that the field of competitive players want to create new deck concepts around them. The rules committee just said to every competitive player out here: “hey… We are giving you the bird! This is who we are now, and this is the kind of thing that we’re willing to do to our community. So you don’t matter nearly as much to us, as the company does.” And we all better remember it.
Join the discussion in the discord: discord.gg/7mJeFfFdYH
banning Jeweled Lotus is like a FU to Hasbro
Definitely the dumbest of the cards banned. It was made specifically for commander. It is limited to casting your commander. It is sac'd on use... Yeah it can ramp our a commander but it seems like the RC just didn't like the card and wanted it out. My Tinfol Hat says they wanted Sol Ring out as well and WoTC straight up said no.
It isn't an FU to Hasbro. It is an F U to the players because they bought their product and Hasbro already has their money.
No, it is FU to cEDH players. All those bans were.
@@ralphthegnome i dont think sol ring can get banned with the amount of precons they have put it in
@@tyuk5107 If the RC doesn't answer to WoTC, they can do whatever. They definitely wanted to do away with it. That's why I'm sure WoTC is involved.
I'm glad this happened. Cards that are to be played shouldn't be costing $60, $80 or over the $100
Those prices are absurd for someone from Eastern Europe like Poland. This ban makes me happy, but I am well beyond the point of doing MTG as my primary TCG, ever since Pinkertons scandal through massive lay offs from Hasbro before Christmas, and all the major issues such as Bloomborrow being absolutely set we all wanted... But all the cool cards were only in collectior boosters with zero chance of pulling them from Play ones.
Pokemon TCG doesn't have one turn wins, cheap decks still have a chance against something straight from the Championship, and the overall atmosphere of the community and the game itself is absolutely more friendly.
I went to a Pokemon TCG tournament and it felt absolutely less stressful than FNM Commander.
I agree as long as box price fits with the value of cards inside. I would be in for chase cards being worth 20-30$ max. But, WotC would need to drop the price of a play booster box from 240$CAD to 160$CAD. I think it would be good for the gameé More people would play it. I know lot of people who just don't want to play because they hear how much money other people spend on this game and they found it ridiculous. When I say to people that don't know MTG that I know a lot of people that spend more tha 1000$ per year on the game, their jaw drop each time and they say it is ridiculous. Then I tell them I know people who spend 2000-3000$ per year and for them it is almost unbeleivable.
@@mugthemagpie3001 I tried Pokemon before and I got destroyed. MTG is my primary game to play and Pokemon now is for collecting. Still I don't spend thousands on MTG since I just play commander with close friends.
@@endlessorbaggins8223 I honestly don't enjoy the changes made with Play Booster and I just buy singles now. There's just no womp opening Play Booster compared to Set Boosters.
These bans are dumb, besides Nadu, which I don’t have an opinion on.
Found the guy who lost money LMAO
Nadu needed to be banned, it was just broken and caused long turns that led to absolutely nothing. I don't have an opinion on crypt or lotus because nobody in casual plays them, and banning dockside was stupid.
@@Lemon_Squalo been playing with proxies for cEDH on these. Don't regret it one bit. Card games really shouldn't be held to monetary value but for fun and playtime. Collectors really ruin card games because they complain and are gatekeepers for the rest of the people. I've seen this for Yugioh, Pokemon, etc. They're all trash.
Yea I’m done with magic. No point to buy future product that will just get banned and can’t used.
@@epicexploration kind of a doomed mentality. They’ve been banning shit for years. With that logic you should just stop buying any kind of TCG. Find something else productive.
A good portion of the blame should be directed at the rules committee and their advisory group for doing nothing for three years.
Better late than never, but I agree the RC is to conservative with format changes
Just read that Sheldon was a major voice for Rule 0 being the main way to stop unwanted cards from being played and why the ban list wasn't updated in recent years. He died and it appears the RC decided that they know what the spirit of commander is better than the guy who invented it...
Most of the blame should be on those who didn't have a rule zero session and always refused to. Because it's easy and will make sure that you have fun.
@@AngelusNielsonGood luck sitting down with a pod of strangers and having that conversation. It's a lot more difficult than you think.
Yes. This wouldn't be such a feels bad if the RC ever fucking did anything. Their inaction created a false sense of security, then they just pop in and screw people out of hundreds of dollars of value. They need to go back to doing nothing.
I just bought a dockside on friday 😭. This hurts lol.
I pulled it TODAY from a Double Masters 2022 box I bought with the chance to pull Dockside! .... -.-
@cakimiric5034 Congrats and Noooo.
Me too. Bought through TCG and it’s enroute 😢
@nateridgewaymusic Oh no! You definitely win. I'm planning on holding on to it and hope in the future they unban it. Same for my jeweled lotus. I've only played the card once in my deck. So kind stings too. Bought it 3 months ago.
my dear friend, you have been scammed by the incompetent commander RC.
Rc is not Wotc its independent. These cards sold sets can't see wizards being happy
Yeah this guy is just ignorant
Not quite. I can’t imagine there’s not a single tie between the two groups and the discussion was about the overall design and delivery of Magic with commander as the center - the bans were mentioned for maybe less than a minute
❤️
One of the people on the RC is an employee of WOTC as there has been one on it for several years. They could have also easily banned these cards around when they came out instead of allowing them to go through the print cycle so WOTC didn't lose money and instead the players lost money.
You dont know what you are talking about. The RC and WotC talk with each other all the time and Jim from the RC has confirmed that they were talking with WotC about this ban list for a full year.
@@HometownTcgThere’s no proof backing that kind of claim. It’s highly speculative and misleading. Just get your information right and point the finger at the right group of people. As far as we know the rules committee are the only ones making the ban decisions, and if you’re gonna suggest otherwise you need to back your claims with actual evidence.
They banned 4 cards...lol
And for casual play i doubt people are gonna care or even know there is a banlist
The Commander Rules Committee has just moved me to proxies only from here on out. After the sudden hundreds of dollars in losses I took today, I am not giving Wizards a dime more. The only Rules Committee EDH needs is Rule Zero, as it's a social format.
Hey it's ok, you can still play with companions
All these people crying “it’s not WOTC it’s the RC” are using semantics. Wizards owns the game and can override the RC whenever they want. So yes, they have control and can also be blamed for this.
Maybe I’m silly, but I cannot imagine a decision like this was made with 0 communication to the company producing the game.
I agree, either WOTC is incompetent for allowing these bans in spite of everybody's best interest or they're culpable and have no issue with rugpulling players/collectors who invest in their product.
I have read arround that a memmbrr of the rc sayd that this has been a discusión with wotc for like a year behind the curtain... Still i think this would have not been an issue if they would have first Say a "hey a heads up this cards are on a ban watchlist" first instead of comming out of nowhere.
@lorpuz4664 that would have at least mitigated the damage of these bans and the precedent being set. My only real issue is that, outside of one actually problematic bird, these bans seem to have nothing to do with promoting a healthy format and everything to do with trying to force the "all game pieces should be free" ideology down the collective community's throat by specifically targeting high dollar chase cards that have been used as the draw to sell just about every specialty/collector set for the past year. There are plenty of other ways to promote making the game more affordable that don't involve burning everyone in the community that spent their hard earned money on a reprint master set or collector booster over the past two years.
best ban ever.
I am not going to buy Expensive cards anymore or sets containing them, i have a mana crypt, a jeweled lotus and a dockside extortionist, all originals.
From today on i am going to proxy everything and so will my playgroup. We are not in for these ban and reprints scams that kill card prices and uses anymore.
Exactly how I feel! Not going to spend hard earned money anymore on magic. What’s the point? Buy cards that will suddenly get banned and can’t be used. No thanks
Ban thassa's orical. The dumbest wincon in the game
I agree but the RC dosent care about making EDH better just pushing their weird cassual agenda
@@onyxgrnr666because EDH is casual. Nobody likes the guy who comes in trying to be super serious about cardboard. It's annoying, you smell, go home.
RC wants everyone to be soft
Best take I've seen so far 👌
You forgot to mention Wizards always hated that their cards became collectable and players built a secondary market that Wizards despises!
I can't imagine that they despise it anymore, now that they're selling direct to consumer with Secret Lair drops.
I highly doubt that wizards hates the second market. They know exactly what they are doing. The cards that got banned were ALL chase cards that wotc knows is highly sought after. They will lose a lot of money in the long run if this ban doesn't get unmade
Ok WoTC.... 2 can play at this game... I wont buy any packs or singles anymore.. I'll just use proxies... Mothr Fkrs
Nice to meet you too.
I'm one who has been avoiding Magic for quite some time. A friend mention the ban, made a search in TH-cam and you appeared.
Started playing with proxies only a couple of years ago and never looked back. My biggest issue with the bans is finding what to replace the cards with 🤷♂️
Either WOTC is incompetent for allowing the bans or they're culpable and have no issue rug pulling players/collectors who invest in their products.
There needs to be a sincere understanding of the disparity between competitive commander and friendly commander.
No, we should not be forced into whatever WOTC’s sales philosophy is with regard to building our decks! If I, and several thousand other people, want to build expensive competitive decks… Then that’s our business!
The best way that the company can service. This community is by printing the kinds of cards on an ongoing basis that can work into the existing strategies, thus making decks stronger; or creating cards that are so amazing that the field of competitive players want to create new deck concepts around them.
The rules committee just said to every competitive player out here: “hey… We are giving you the bird! This is who we are now, and this is the kind of thing that we’re willing to do to our community. So you don’t matter nearly as much to us, as the company does.”
And we all better remember it.
I mean rules committee did say they wouldn't help any more if the flash unbanning didn't alleviate anything.
If this isn't not helping then I don't know what is
got these werewolf cards right but I don't have night and day bound car for the werewolfs to function properly I was wondering is it ok to use a day and night cycle from like an app from the playstore or any other way or do I have to have with 100% the night and day bound card
I recognize that the council has made a decision, but given that its a stupid-ass decision, ive elected to ignore it-Nick Fury
Wizards -"Have 40 decks instead of just 1"
Me - [Runs to home depot to buy a 4th Dewalt toolbox]
Also got a chuckle out of the "proxies dont buy sealed" mini rant lol. I actually use physical cards as a deck building restriction (been collecting since odyssey sooooooo...... can afford to build from 'on hand' with picking up the occasional neccessity here and there)
We already don't want cEDH decks in an EDH pod... It's likely time to make it a different format. No ban list in cEDH, everyone go nuts. After 6 months, evaluate the health of the new cEDH format and ban accordingly. This gives these newly banned cards some of their value back, opens up a whole new world of deck brewing for cEDH players, and would lower the ceiling on deck power in EDH by maintaining/expanding the current banned list without upsetting the cEDH community.
My group will still play these. Those who did not want to fork out the cash on these or proxy them will be able to pick them up now.
Mtg is at least 20 million strong. It's maybe about time that there was a divide or rift in the community. I personally divide us into 2 categories. Premier League and Dragon League. Premier league is everything attached to wizards, and their rulings. And Dragon league is everything eternal, and maintains it's own ban lists and competitive play. Premier covers everything new. Limited play with new products, standard, pioneer, established eternal formats such as modern, legacy and vintage, and commander. Dragons are in charge of highlander, pauper, no ban list modern etc... If wizards neglect or abandon stuff, Dragons pick it up. I predict that we'll be hosting our own major tournaments soon. Possibly for straight up cash. Like poker tournaments.
I will play devils advocate and say banning Mana Crypt was a good idea. Why? Commander is supoosed to be not only friendly and casual in sense and approach but also should be reasonably affordable. I had my deck proxied with 40 cards, Mana Crypt one of them, because I had no chance against the decks which had it -- and price of Mana Crypt is absurd for Poland -- as well as it created a massve rift between casual and min-max tryhard players in a lot of instances.
This raises howerver a problematic question about one Precon which uses Dockyard, because we do have Precon Commander Party events and now even the LGS is unable to tell if the deck is banned or not (because precon list cannot be changed).
It's kind of funny that the things the RC fails at that WotC actually does do is regular ban/unban cycle.
When modern gets bans the modern players tend to just be like "yeah saw that coming" and even get a lot of "why won't they ban that damned ring?!?" a lot.
Commander players have gotten used to being able to pull off stupid BS with no consequence ever so long that they can't handle a ban. Even when the bans are like literally the strongest 3 cards (and nadu) in the format.
You made some good points in cgb's live chat
1. Make high power cards to win games add collection value develop multiple versions of said card/cards.
2. Tell your customer base (This product is not for you)
3. Price Spike said cards needed to win said format with in multiple future sets.
4. Ban said cards that enable winning conditions within said format!
Outcome = sale's losses player collection/$$ value from Collector box's = huge losses, market singleton value diminished player confidence in future POWER card/ game pieces = DEAD.
Exactly how I see it...was going to buy a collector box of new Dusk set after work until I saw this BS..zero confidence
Commander is really three overlapping formats, distinguished by card selection:
* Casual Commander - No: stax, infinite loops, land destruction. Budget-friendly, no proxies.
* Pay-to-Win Commander - Casual plus pay-to-win cards > $25. Proxies require permission.
* Competitive EDH (cEDH) - Play-to-win, nothing legal excluded. Proxies taken for granted.
Prominent promoters of Pay-to-Win Commander are WotC, online card dealers, and corporate-sponsored TH-camrs.
Yet another nail in the financial and spiritual lifeblood of mtg glad i sold off during magic 30th
Im glad ive been building my decks without any of these cards anyways. Just can never bring myself to drop that kind of money. However this situation just flat exposes sketchy business practices and im not down with that..
I'm also mad that commander is a more broadly appealing format that more people want to play.
All the had to do was print for standard and balance the pack for draft and the whole thing runs on its own. Instead they are choosing maximum profit over health of the game.
I'm hoping that dockside being banned in Commander leads to a future reprint in a standard set. He's honestly mediocre 1v1 but in a modern/pioneer/standard meta where there's a decent artifact deck, he can be a solid sideboard card.
He is legal in vintage and legacy, formats that play a ton of artifacts, and sees zero play. He's about to be a bulk bin rare that sees zero play now.
Honestly if they are keeping Sol Ring because it's Iconic to EDH then they should keep Dockside as it's Iconic to cEDH or if they keep Sol Ring they should have kept Mana Crypt as it has been around just as long as Sol Ring for EDH. Hell they could just ban the iconic fast mana of cEDH Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt and keep Dockside as the problem sorts itself
I don't like that Magic The Gathering has cards that can target more then one opponent. But none of the modes include teams. Like 2v2. which would be sweet. And make the turn system go 1-3-2-4 1-2 v 3-4 Cause many cards will be like, opponents do such and such. But yet all the modes are just 1v1 so its always just an opponent. I really want a 2v2 mode for MTG Arena
Wizards secretly works with the Rules Committee. They knew ahead of time about these bans. Wizards flooded the market with the Festival in a Box with the 3 Collectors packs. Gee....what great timing. It also gave time for the RC and Wizards employees to dump their banned cards on the secondary market ahead of time. 20m to 100m was lost. Magic/Commander is a great game. It's a shame that we cannot trust Wizards & the RC now because they clearly MANIPULATE the market to screw over LGS and the players. It is getting to a point now why should I buy expensive sealed boxes where the value is not there and now cards on the secondary market tank big time because of so many reprints and now bannings. Expect several more ridiculous price increase for 2025. Another thing is there are too many products released like every month. I can still play Magic with the cards I have and buy some proxies. The collectibility of this game is slowly fading because of GREED!!! Thank you for the video.
Solid take on all this. But where were the Thassa and bowmaster bans? The idiotic double standard of sol ring being ok, but not the none ubiquitous cards?
Honestly if you follow most of the individual personas of the committee through their content creation or social media. It feels at best disingenuous at best and grifting at worst. Playing down to the lowest common denominator. The amount of times I’ve heard things along a game being a story or something along a board game experience is honestly sad. It weaponizes the rule 0 factor and creates alot of social engineering. Just the 2¢.
This may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me. I give Hasbro a decent amount of my money each year and I’m thinking that stops with this. Reprints is one thing but to ban a card whose literal only purpose is the format it was banned in and was THE pull in commander masters. It was the middle finger to vintage in 2022 and today it’s the middle finger to cEDH. Well I’m giving the middle finger to wotc. Good riddance.
Agreed
Might just be me, but as a person that fully wrote off the rules committee(and like most if the playerbase) after the companion thing, this upheaval is hilarious and im glad people are suffering.
Why does commander even have a ban list. its a made up sub game for larpers
If you financially depend on the equity in ANY collectable, you need to sell those collectibles and rethink your hobby financial and worldview.
Well, this aged well lol.
IMHO they didn’t go far enough with the bans. It’s a good start though.
Now if we can just get them to ban sol ring.
Honestly, most play groups banned most of those cards a long time ago.
Crypt…busted
Goblin…very busted
Lotus…probably least busted but still gross.
Nadu…basically a misprint.
These cards all deserved the ban they got. Honestly, all forms of mass land destruction should also catch a ban.
Now they need to do every card that lets you cast free shit. Especially cascade
These bans make no sense for commander. It is already a format that people talk about power ratings of decks and Cedh vs edh. All of the buying new product for commander still happens while people build multiple decks. one or more are power houses while the rest of cheaper, newer, or themed fun decks. The online community is heavily based on this idea as well.
I find it hilarious when the very same people who are mad at these bannings are demanding to ban Sol Ring! The most accessible fast mana.
It highlights the entitlement and sheer hubris of some mtg players.
Honestly, from all the MTG-Lore/Analysis-Videos, MtG was! magical in the past.
But nowdays? Its just Funko Pop Card Edition. Just get every IP they can get sell cards. There is nothing "magical" oder fantasy anymore. Its just one brand after other and cheeky lies like the "Value-Boosters"
The last thing what was magical, where New Phyrexia and the work that they did with the language. Probably the last thing they put so much effort in it.
Pretty rough bannings imo. Granted casuals can do whatever but that's typically only done between friends - folks u get with on a regular basis. But for the casual pick up game - it's not going to happen. It's sit down - have a deck that doesn't take 2 attorneys to sypher and let's go.
Think I'm gonna play mana crypt and lotus anyways. What are they gonna do?
Yo I'll play in ur pod. Those are pretty cool cards anyways and the art is sick
We need an emergency may the zoo…
The biggest problem is that these cards arnt even a problem
EDH is the slowest format and its all one ofs so fast mana is good for the format but the problem is WOTC wont reprint them.
This was a great move for the state of the game, very bad news for collectors lol.
I sunk my teeth into cEDH and if a separate ruleset isn't created, I'm not sticking around.
This is why you proxy for cEDH. I’ve never met anyone that cares about proxies in cEDh.
This is wizards fault for not giving these cards proper reprints. Making these cards extremely expensive. The sol ring thing is bc they reprint it in every commander precon.
These bans are objectively good for the game. You’ve also gotta remember that it’s the rules committee that banned the cards, not wizards.
No it isn't. It helps against pubstompers but what about the rest of us who keep those cards in cedh or high power where they belong?
@@MustangMike52It’s not good for CEDH either. Yes those cards speed up the game, but any card that is in insert in ANY deck at that level removes a level of creativity from deckbuilding. Any card that’s an auto-include is bad for the format.
Except that these bans only hurt fringe red decks that were barely staying competitive and only increase the gap between the top tier decks.
Buying singles and being snti oroxy was cool... until today. Fuck WotC, buy no more product unless you play constructed tournaments
The rules committee is unrelated to WOTC, Hasbro just lost a very important chase card to print and sell.
The RC is its own body that by its own admission works in tandem with WotC/MTG/Hasbro
What I love about fast mana and tutors is the ability to tune up and down decks depending on what you play. If it's a trash commander with a hard, slow, bad but fun theme, you can add some tutors and fast mana to bridge the gap to playability. And if you play a strong commander with a strong shell, you can just remove some tutors and fast mana to scale it back. It's literally the Guage you use to adjust power level.
Time for cEHD to rule 0 their own Rules Committee and ban list. For casuals this ban list if fine.
They tried and got attacked and Doxed
I wont buy packs boxes i just buy singles
So glad i sold everything last year.. proxys or bust. A printer is cheaper then a bundle
Buy 1 single card, proxy the rest. If the random pod wants no proxies, use 15 minutes or more to find the real ones in your 600+ card vox 😅
F vintage ain’t no way normal people can afford it.
RC banned them not WOTC
I really dont think anything but an extreme minority of commander players will ever transition into vintage / lrgscy
I got 32 jeweled lotuses from CL 2020 😅
good to note commander comity isnt WOTC
clearly people are buy box and collector box the number are there and the game is more popular than every and it in a healthy place. For the record i buy boxes too
Well at least I can get them for my collection for cheap now 😅
But kinnin infinite mana turn 2 running away from all other decks now
great video you have a new fan.
Welcome, and thanks for watching! ❤️
Damn you work from home or something lmfao you filmed this quick haha
Wotc just F ed established players and endorsed their plan all along…to get you to buy new stuff😢
it's only a couple cards out of your deck. yknow you can just play other cards you already own... sorry you actually have to deckbuild lmfao
@@Lemon_Squalo its 400 dollars out of a cedh deck. Yeah…400 d o l l a r s.
@@johnbts9216 I own these in foil too and full art.
It is not WOTC responsible for the bans. It is the EDH RC, which has nothing to do with WOTC.
WotC lost a lot of reprint equity. If you think they had anything to do with this you could be tarded
i will be wolverine and you cant stop me!
I wouldn’t dare try
I for one, am sick of all these click baiting videos talking about how WotC is to blame, they are in the sense they made these cards, Dockside, Jeweled Lotus and Nadu have zero downside, and should be gone, they shouldn't have been printed in the first place. So many videos ranting about how WotC is screwing the players over. The problem isn't that the rules committee banned these cards, it's that they were printed at all. The only one I take issue with banning is Mana Crypt, that one has a legitimate downside, even in Commander. I've seen several games lost by the player who cast it, just due to losing enough life to put them in the danger zone. With 3 other players at the table, it's not the biggest issue. The issue is the hyper pushed cards WotC likes to print, specifically in the premium sets in a effort to gouge every last cent from the player base. But blaming WotC for the bans is ludicrous and just outright misinformed. I didn't even watch this or the others past the first one I tried to stomach, I'm posting this due to the clickbaiting of the title/thumbnail of the video.
Boomer magic? 🤣 didn’t think certain aspects of MTG had to have a age reference. Glad I’m not a boomer or less might’ve been offended! Let’s just stick calling it cardboard crack eh? 🤣
What does a ban even mean for a "casual" format?
Whatever you want it to mean. Commander rules are a suggestion.
They are not a suggestion. Playing in any situation outside of a 'make your own rules' friends group is going to follow ban lists.
@exposfan94movies every time I have played commander anywhere there has been a rule zero conversation. The only exception is events put on by a store. So in my experience, yeah, the rules are a suggestion for commander.
4 cards out of how many? Just seems like a nothing burger.
Man everyone is crying about WOTC its RC. ROFL Stop whine and go rebuild or ignore the rules who cares.
Both wotc and rcr are to blame. One is using commander as a cash cow with no worry of the consequences and the other is a group of unelected players who have decided they want everyone to play casual commander like they do.
"Who cares" says the guy who didnt invest in premium COLLECABLE cards. This is literally a loss of millions of dollars for the community.
@@valgeir80 I have been playing since 1994. So please with all of that. Shit happens. I play the stock market so ups and downs are a reality. RISK vs Reward bro. Don't Assume.
@@valgeir80 you're basing money off a company that can change anything any time any way they want. Its cardboard at the end of the day. Just fancy. You will get over it and find other things to invest in. Like gold. That is not defined by any COMPANY. You want secure investments. that's the way to go.
@@metaldudebuff92 there are no consequences when you own the game. You can do what you want when you want. It sucks for you but the same thing happens in life you cant control it all you can do is whine about it if it doesn't go your way. I have been playing since 94. So please with all of this.
Sell Cradle and Mox Diamant and the rest its to riski
All this people crying, and are discovering that their Mtg is like yugioh with predator managment. Mass reprint, mass pimp, overflowing product and ban chase cards they used to sold product. (Example: Ban Flower Baronness from Rarity collection 1).
I don’t understand people who wake up now and discover that their tcg is able to do that, while they done worst before and since many years 🤷🏻♂️
Who are they to tell us all to play slower games. I like fast games and i like fast mana. F slow games, F cry babies that called for this ban, and F the RC.
I could go on a spiel, but instead, I will give the TLDR;
Good bans.
Nadu was miserable gameplay and took too long. Get it out of here. Fast mana is mandatory and a must include. If you are going to ban cards while an edh and cedh split does not officially exist within the ruleset, then these kinds of cards are sort of the only ones you can ever ban.
Good on the CAG on actually doing something instead of being a joke group that has no say or power.
My friend group and I will no longer be buying future mtg product unless these bans are reversed. What’s the point of spending hard earned money to buy cards that will be banned that can’t be used. No thanks
Agreed proxy all cEDH decks
Proxy all decks by ruling zeroing you can play with as many proxies as you want. Isn't that what the rule zero is for?
wizard in 3 months look at these new slightly worse or more broken Versions of the same cars.😂
This is my expectation. I doubt wotc was unaware of these bans. And when these new slightly worse or slightly better cards show up, there will be convenient holes in people's decks they can fill.
Anything that hastens the death of commander is a win in my book
Just say you have no friends
@@DLTYTubeNo, probably like me, a Legacy player who is sick of dealing with garbage commander cards ruining our format.
@@exposfan94movies Yeah well some people like commander
@@exposfan94movies Let em know brother. But commander is good for the game, more people the better.
@@exposfan94movies Oh I don’t play legacy, what cards are ruining the format? Just out of curiosity 🙂 also they might be a legacy player that has no friends 😀
Bans are NOT from WotC..... lmao. Nice try
L bans. Boooo!!
wizard isnt in charge of the bans for commander
But they can pull the plug on the RC at any time and make their own list 😂
Considering the RC was the reason Nadu was changed they are in comunicationa
Time to ban that cringe royalty free YT music.
Ayyy some of us can’t afford the royalties of real music! 🤣
Banning Jeweled Lotus is the most damning Ban, Jeweled lotus could only be played in ONE FORMAT, and now it can't be played in a single format, it's a Dead Card.
My issue with the format in general is the lack of rules or structure. You can't rely on "feels" to make sure you get a good game. The players shouldn't be the ones determining balance. Imagine doing that in any other game and thinking that's okay. Imagine playing Street Fighter 6 and sitting down to play with a group of dudes but to you only playing Ryu, Ken and Chun Li is fair. Rest of the roster is broken, and not fun. You'd be laughed at. Yet there are bros in stores right now who are doing that in commander. The rules committee is the problem for multiple reasons. Other formats in MTG have subformats - so that balance and expectations can be found. You don't walk up to a draft with a legacy deck and expect a fair game. This whole kumbaya
discussing "Power level"is bullshit and is ruining the format. Banning fast mana isn't going to fix commander. They're not addressing the actual issues. My favorite thing is when someone has house rules for how to build my deck, so that they can win better. It's hilarious. How does that make sense in literally any other format, let alone game?
"Oh no i cant Pup Stomb anymore😭"
Your four nobody can consistantly pub stomp theres no pubs lol
There needs to be a sincere understanding of the disparity between competitive commander and friendly commander.
No, we should not be forced into whatever WOTC’s sales philosophy is with regard to building our decks! If I, and several thousand other people, want to build expensive competitive decks… Then that’s our business!
The best way that the company can service. This community is by printing the kinds of cards on an ongoing basis that can work into the existing strategies, thus making decks stronger; or creating cards that are so amazing that the field of competitive players want to create new deck concepts around them.
The rules committee just said to every competitive player out here: “hey… We are giving you the bird! This is who we are now, and this is the kind of thing that we’re willing to do to our community. So you don’t matter nearly as much to us, as the company does.”
And we all better remember it.
There needs to be a sincere understanding of the disparity between competitive commander and friendly commander.
No, we should not be forced into whatever WOTC’s sales philosophy is with regard to building our decks! If I, and several thousand other people, want to build expensive competitive decks… Then that’s our business!
The best way that the company can service. This community is by printing the kinds of cards on an ongoing basis that can work into the existing strategies, thus making decks stronger; or creating cards that are so amazing that the field of competitive players want to create new deck concepts around them.
The rules committee just said to every competitive player out here: “hey… We are giving you the bird! This is who we are now, and this is the kind of thing that we’re willing to do to our community. So you don’t matter nearly as much to us, as the company does.”
And we all better remember it.
There needs to be a sincere understanding of the disparity between competitive commander and friendly commander.
No, we should not be forced into whatever WOTC’s sales philosophy is with regard to building our decks! If I, and several thousand other people, want to build expensive competitive decks… Then that’s our business!
The best way that the company can service. This community is by printing the kinds of cards on an ongoing basis that can work into the existing strategies, thus making decks stronger; or creating cards that are so amazing that the field of competitive players want to create new deck concepts around them.
The rules committee just said to every competitive player out here: “hey… We are giving you the bird! This is who we are now, and this is the kind of thing that we’re willing to do to our community. So you don’t matter nearly as much to us, as the company does.”
And we all better remember it.