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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- / moldran
www.g2a.com/r/m...
Very questionable AH technique that has been reported multiple times since more than 6 months ago and still hasn't been addressed by Blizzard yet. With this video I want to inform the majority of the players about this and hopefully the issue will get some attention. In my opinion this needs to be fixed, especially because those people that are using this are making very high amounts of profit at the cost of other players, who simply didn't know about this.
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Great vid and perhaps it also explains to some extend why prices recently have rocketed (i.e. on echoing furies with int and socket). TY for explaining it!
The premise of the video is that IF AND ONLY IF there are these giant maximum bids sitting on this stupefyingly expensive items, one could exploit that by looking at the automatically proposed price when you try bidding yourself *exaggerations inserted for comedic effect*.
This circumstance makes it a sellers market, because with the help of friends you can check your auctions and see if there are any where you can drive the prices up.
The rest about bookmark and last minute bidding is true.
I agree. I think it only works in exactly 50% of the cases and your example is a perfect scenario in which it wouldn't.
Given an item with the displayed price of 8.858.404, it would work if his max bid was in one of the intervals 9.301.324-9.766.390, 10.254.709-10.767.444, and henceforth and it wouldn't if it was in 8.858.404-9.301.324, 9.766.390-10.254.709 and henceforth.
It's not just "can't bid", but also that if someone just happened to bid 1,000,000,001 gold on an item and someone else later bid 1,000,000,000, the next bidder would have to raise you by over 100mil rather than "just" 50mil, and for those items that is a lot of gold.
If you care about your gold, for those items you will bid last 5 seconds and thus nobody can "exploit" against you. There is absolutely no benefit for bidding before the last 5 seconds other than a small chance to lose 5% and time
a solution would be, if that multiplicator "1.05" would be a random number after every bid, for example 1.05-1.2. then everyone just needs to make the max-bid look like 42.346.152 or something.
As someone already stated it probably won't work cause when they make a bid that is equal to yours you are still the winner. Sadly the only way to combat this is to snipe the item in the very last seconds which can't be done in some cases if you're not willing to/can't come online at 4:00a.m.
From my understanding, 40271817*1.05>the max bid, therefore the system defaulted the current bid to the max bid INSTEAD of making the current bid what 40271817*1.05 is, which is what the current ah does now.
Good video. The way to fix this is pretty easy. The current bid winner should NEVER overbid.
If you try to bid 31,313,313 gold and its not enough the current bid should be exactly 31,313,313 gold held by the previous winner.
First come first served. The current winner bid first and he should be allowed the 31,313,313 bid. And it keeps bids confidential.
This is no bug at all, the option to bid any amount is so that you can bid as much as you would like to pay for that item, not to be able to get item for the amount someone else (highest) would pay for it. Its simple if u want to buy some item just bid as much as u think its worth.
It is not really an exploit to say , It just preys on two tendencies of the casual bidder : The fact that they bid round numbers allow you to extrapolate their bid amount to be 42 million and the fact that they bid their final bid way before the last few seconds. Sniper bidders post their maximum budget in the last few seconds ( 1 - 3 seconds ) before the end of such an auction without a buy out
what if someone's just using the regular min bid and no one tries to secure the bid
u'll always see the 5% extra
therefore there's a hole within this theory
in the end u'll be stuck with the item if no one bids any higher
especially the part at the end where he goes
"I'll be back..."
LOL
Nice job explaining this exploit Moldran, I've had this done to me before...even though my friends and I sell on a daily basis on the AH we don't do this to other players...but it sucks having it done to you and basically "overpaying" for an item just because you didn't want to play AH and wanted to place a bid and secure it in the the first place.
If you do that, then you'd have to introduce an automatic auction time extension to combat latency issues.
Very good video, Moldran!
Thank you for that information. Exactly what you showed us in this video happened to me a lot of times. Its really frustrating
the solution to this problem for high end players is to ALWAYS use a bid that is a 1.05^n multiplied price for example:
if a starting bid for an item is 50M and you want to secure the bid for around 100M put a price in like this
50.000.000 * (1.05^15) = 103.946.409 gold.
they still can increase your paying bid, butt.. they can't detect if your bid is higher they there "1.05 bid". so at some point they will end up paying for it. as they overbid you without noticing it.
Happened to me, that i didn't get a refund from overbidding one item.
That was in the last second before the auction ran out, though.
It seems unlikely anybody could do enough bids to double the previous bid until the value reached mine so quickly.
It would take 14 bids in one second to do that (1.05^14=1.98).
Thus one of the following must be true:
-A bug makes the refund money just disappear
-There is a way to figure out INSTANTLY what the current maxbid is without repeatedly placing bids
No, that's not how an auction works at all. When you make a bid at an auction you are the one now holding the bag if no one bids again. This is a risk free way to drive prices up. If your friend was selling a painting @ auction and a bid came in @ $50m. Now the next bid might be $52m, but you have confidential information that the bidder @ 50m has a cap of $100m he's willing to pay, so you bid it up to there for your buddy. That would be a heavy crime with a long jail sentence.
thanks moldran! i didn't even know the bid systems works like that!
This has happened to me twice and it was both buying Lacuni Prowlers (60-100m). I bid like 80m (50m being the current bid) and I got literally no gold back after I won the item. Not even ONE gold. I was shocked and kinda pissed both times because I paid a realistic price instead of getting a steal.
Very good content Moldran, this stuff needs to be brought up. Keep it up!
Have I understood the unethical method right`` person puts an item on ah with an bid, someone bids on his item, the person that´s selling then tells his friend to also bid on the item and bid higher?
as blizzard takes a 15% cut they should make bids increase in increments of 5% and cover the extra 4.9999%.
Ie if the current bid is 100 and the max bid is at 101 then the next bid would be 105, this would be the present bid on the item even though the max bid is at 101.
When the item sells it would sell for 105,
the buyer would pay 101
blizzard would pay 4
the seller would collect 105*.85
blizzard would collect 105*.85-105+101
that or continuing bidding once to follow the auction
no it just tells that bid is not enough and the start bid not changing, in diablo every time you check it - it multiplies by 1.05
We are actually aware of this issue. Our team has concluded people spent too much time calculating and not enough time spending gold so in the next patch we are doubling the increment from 5% to 10%.
Fucking loved the "I'll be back" at the end XD
ive tried this exploit a few times, but i occasionally end up paying my full bid if i leave a bid with over 30 minuets left on AH
I just started the game recently, am very surprised how this trick worked for so long...
They could, but then you would have to keep in mind that the shown value might not be the "real" current bid, as obviously if I bid 10mil and you bid 9.99mil I should still only pay 10mil. With this sort of "fix" the next bidder would have to pay 11.025mil instead of 10.5mil. For high-value auctions that can be a lot of gold.
Since Blizzard assumes you are willing to pay the amount you bid, they probably chose the current evil over the suggested one.
Thanks for the informative video. I've been lucky so far that this max bidding exploit hasn't happened to me. I would definitely advocate not max bidding an item until the last 10-15 seconds. I wish blizzard would create an Auction House app for cell phones, so people could track/bid items when they are not in front of their computer. Would be very helpful, and would eliminate the need to max bid an item hours before it is ending.
Yeah I was going to explain "bookmark bidding" but I ran out of space.
The point is that this "exploit" that Moldran is talking about is a non issue. It does not reflect the way in which people actually bid. No one that is serious about items just sticks a huge sum out there to see what happens. Even if they did well hey guess what? You put up what you are willing to pay, if you get the item and no gold back then you paid what you were willing to.
he realizes that, he wants blizz to take notice and youtube vids are normally how that happens
1. This exploit only works on people who are silly enough to bid before the last 5 seconds of an auction. Bid during the last 5 seconds of an auction and you'll be safe not just from exploit but also from other silly people who have stupid bidding strategies.
2. There is little they can do to fix it without screwing other things up. The won't make the current bid 5% higher than the last current bid because there is no such bid on the item. They could *display* a wrong number but...
if i remember correctly you cant see your own item in the AH
This has now been fixed. When you bid 150m on an item and it isn't sufficient enough, the current bid will be 150m by someone else.
Just tried this and it's most definitely fixed. On multiple items I got bid accepted even though they all were continuously raised with a perfect 5%.
I'm hoping for a long time now, that this maxbid method is going to be fixed. There were so many threads about in the official forums. Hopefully your video causes more attention to the blizzard team than to more people who going to abuse the auction house with that method :)
I'm curious about one thing though. Aren't you making half of the bid steps which acutally might get you getting the highest bid without putting the other guy to his limit?
If you would have put for example 39m on the amulet, the ah would suggest 40.95m then. Your next step would be 42.9975 because of the 5% increase. That would also lead to you outbidding the other guy. The maxbidding would've failed.
I think it would show instantly what the person bid and the seller gets that amount of gold.
The buyer says that he pays (here) 42kk gold and so he should pay the amount he entered. I mean it's just stupid that the ah shows you an amount that isnt enough anyways and because it does some people probably get maxbidded by players that dont know about that ....
especialy when he said Ill be back.
Its not only on the first attempt you can fail, e.g. if the maxbet was between 23,546,097 and 24,723,400 (see 8min) Moldran would have overbid it without intention without getting warned by the calculator.
The AH in Diablo 3 should be like the real auction house, the one that bid the highest price should win the item no matter what was the last bid. The bids should be visible to everyone not blind bids like they are now . If i i see the last bid and consider that the item is worth's more i will bid there are no refund in real Auction Houses between the highest price and the last bid.
How do you know this was fixed?
I just had an item that I was able to do this on. Was at 185,500,000.
I bit it all the way until it said the current bid was 400,000,001.
Seemed like a max bid to me after I was bidding all these oddball numbers.
In this video, what if their max bid had been 40,000,000 on that amulet? How would you have known that?
You know you dont need to type "x 1.05" every time... Just press "=" again and it will redo the last operation but with the result value...
Remember it's a Jay Wilson game, problem solving would require making it a non-jay-wilson game!
you can just press equal "=" again on the calculator for it to repeat the same function instead of having to hit *1.05= over and over.
This is not a bug, you actually that's how the bids works... If you bid 50 million and the last bid before you was 10k, then it will show 10k, and if someone tries to bid then it will show the following bid next to 10k, for example someone else bid 15k, then it will show 15k... If no one go over 50 million then you will pay the last bid that someone put, so if I go and I bid 49 million, then you will pay that amount and you will recibe 1 million.
I don't understand. What is there to fix? If this 'exploit' did not exist, people with 2 billion gold would just max bid on godly items that have low starting bids and win it for cheap. This 'exploit' is precisely meant to prevent what I just described.
what would happen if u left that bid before you increased the bid for the proof?
Thanks for posting this... it makes me mad to know that I've lost tens of millions to stupid AH implementation, but hopefully players will eventually get mad enough for them to change it.
Yep, even makes videos showing flipping. The brimstones one comes to mind. Funny that some of the people who got rich by using flipping are now suddenly against it.
well i think you dont understand it. if someone puts a 2bil bid on your item, you are in the position to raise the actuel bid from 100mil to something under 2bil just to secure that you get the most amount of money from it and not to "over bid" it...a friend of yours has to bid it to the 2bil mark..sry for the bad english
best info to date! I hope Blizzard fixes this by taking away the auto increase number on bottom field
Blizzard does not earn anything from things being sold on the Gold AH... the 15% gold fee goes back to where it came from... thin air.
damn you now i can't unhear it.
i shouldn't read the comments before watching a vid.
Hi.Moldran.
Could you make more videos explainig how stuff work in the game? I really love those because I still don't really know all the advanced mechanics and stuff. It could be boring for you but I think it will be awesome. For examle stuff like how dual wield work, how life steal changes on inferno, what is weapon damage exactly, how different skills have diferent life on hit value and other cool kind of hidden stuff but really useful to know.
Thanks.
You'll be back :).
i tried this and... x1.05 and number was same... but i thought it was not the max bid... but when i bidded. .. it got accepted. what the hell?
That poster SO doesnt fit there.
so if i have an item worth around 1bil and put it up for bid only starting at 100 mil (to get more people interested in the bid war) and someone puts a 2bil bid on it right away, i should only get 100mil for it? just because 2 bil can't be outbid?
what you say would only make sense if they also remove the max bid cap.
also you should never bid "just to secure it." only bid as much as you are actually willing to pay for that item
plus... on a real life auction you always have to pay what you bid
I've never got an upgrade from the game (farming). With all my 60's I've had to buy upgrades (every single item) from the AH, great game design.
i wanted to do this and exactly the next nubmber that would appear was on my list i did in excel but then i got the bid accepted. why?
Just happened, very actual thing! I bid on gloves i really wanted to have and tried out the system you showed us here Moldran! I bid on gloves - my bid was too low. So i saw: Okay its exactly 5% more as i calculated. So i bid on it and got the highest bid. No problem for me, because i wanted them - but: Isn't that another thing then what you said? Like you said if it's 1.05 times the bid it's NOT high enough right? Trust me, I didnt make a mistake here
And play Windowed Fullscreen and put a Excel in the left with what you said multiplier of 1.05
Long story short: Don't bid more on an item than you are willing to pay.
So just put your bids disguised as one of those numbers (pre-calculate it) and nobody will know where you bid.
Got upbid on some shoulders to the exact number I had on max. Not really a big issue but still needs to be fixed. Gotta fix this shit blizz.
You said "I'll be back at the end"...insta sub, looking forward to checking out your videos old and new
"you paid what you were willing to".. yeah, you totally got the point of this video. it's true that most of the time ppl place bookmark bids and their actual bid only during the last seconds.. NOT THE POINT though. the point is that ppl SHOULD BE ABLE TO place their maximum bid at the start without the possibility of others finding out what it is and bidding them up to their maxbid. very very complex, hard-to-understand issue though, so no worries for being too stupid to get it.
"Selling Items for more than what they are worth " This must be Kongor
he's informing people of what is going on and perhaps even get blizzards attention, i really like watching these videos even tho i'm not playing diablo
moldran I still find this problem sometimes. where I want to buy an item I like and the it just says that my bid was too low :(
You shouldnt be able to place a bid margin / threshold or what ever it is called.
I played entropia for a long time, and there the bid is what you bid. If the start bid is 200 and when you bid 250 the bid is 250 and not 201 up until someone bids 251. Even on items without buyouts the bid is what you bid, if you want to bid 2000 the current bid is 2000. Even if you want to sink in all your money.
In the last 5 mins you can go on a bid war where the timer is reset to 5 min after each bid
I'm not sure myself. But I feel it should be done this way. They still do that during live auctions right? By that I mean the the "slow" counting to three and then announcing the winning bid.
Possible solution?:
What if they don't actually increase the current bid, unless the new bid is a new winning bid.
Although I guess that's not really a solution, more of a work around that will stop the exploiting. Although could hurt the legitimate sellers.
I think it's okay to do this. Dont place an insanely high bid if you're not ready to pay it
Anyone know the link to the math game that moldran plays all the time?
Thats not the point. The point is that SELLERS can (with a friend using this technique) ALWAYS get the maxbids anyone entered on their items. Without this exploit, that wouldn't happen often.
I just tested this and it didn't work twice! So either Blizz fixed it or it doesn't work always.
Thank you Moldran. your comments relly helps slot.
Won't work. If their current bid is 1/1.05 of your max bid, their next bid attempt will be exactly yours, you will still count as winning the auction, and their actual bid won't move. They would need to somehow get to a bid which is greater than 1/1.05 of your max bid, which isn't possible.
Just brilliand video.You explained everything simple,well done moldran.I think Blizzard doesnt care anymore of this game,they are looking forward to Titan.
It doesnt matter what the real value of the item is or if the buyer has bid too high or too low. Either way the seller can exploit the buyers max bid. Whether that is still a bargain or not is irrelevant!
I love the blue item sold popup. assuming hardcore sell
Heard it here first from Exata1337. Buying virtual items with virtual money in a game equals buying house in real life!
eeeh did you watch the video? it's not about being outbid.. it's about the second highest bid being just under the max to maximize the sellers value
very nice video. this is supposed to be the function of the media in a free society--to watch the watchers and inform the public of their follies. Very well done, Moldran. Thank You.
Moldran stole Reginalds eyebrows.
I think your theory is not correct.
u only have to bid 1 time in order to find out what is the current bid . . .
just press "actions" an u will find out what is the moment current bid
it is not necessary to calculate
You don't pay for more than you want to pay. However, with this method, you are paying much more than what you would pay.
For example, I have won an item which was worth 3 million to me, for 2492 gold as nobody else was looking for that. If that guy knew this, he could actually get 3m out of me, instead of 2492.
you get refunds in proportion to the last bidder
I've always thought you should be able to get the best items in the game by playing the game, not flipping items on the AH, or using a bunch of money on the RMAH to buy items.
depends on your calculator. but yea if your calculator can save and the last answer it will work.
i am on the fence on this one. it annoys me that the rich players can just overbid and get the item and get the remaining gold back. and for the players that bid there is a simple solution to this "exploit" NEVER bid more then your willing to pay. I don't see the real problem here.
i know this is an old video and that the auction house is being removed but I'm a little confused... He talks about "max bid" when its not your bidding the "max amount" you want to. If you've ever been to a real life auction, or even on Ebay, the way it works is someone bids (lets say 5k) so now the CURRENT bid is 5k Gold, now you really want that item so you bid 500k (hoping no one will go higher) well now it says the current bid is 500k gold (meaning YOU PUT THAT AMOUNT DOWN), so if someone else wants it more and can go higher they're allowed to, this is a legit and normal method of how an Auction runs.... So I'm a tad bit confused on what this video's even about :\ there's nothing wrong with this, if you don't like it, don't use it, but THIS IS how an Auction works haha sorry. Which is probably why BLIZZARD overlooked your email.
Also left out that you all need to realize: If you did NOT WIN the auction, you do NOT pay ANYTHING you get your Gold back. But anyways doesn't matter, Loot 2.0 is amazing, and AH is going down, and if any of you watched ANY RoS Beta footage the Expansion makes the AH look like a joke
:P
Both are _very_ unlikely for the following reason:
My overbid was at 53 000 002 gold.
For me not to receive any refund whatsoever somebody would have to bid 50 476 192. What are the odds, that anybody would bid that by chance?
Well, you can still do it and half the time you'll boost your gold, half the time you'll become the winning bid which, in turn, could make you lose 15% of them. Overall, I reckon you'd still end up much better than without using the exploit.
So annoying when that happens -_-
Thanks Moldran, keep it going
They fail so bad they can't even get their baby the AH/RMAH right. You would figure software coders would be good with math.
Hey does this work for the RMAH? If so this could possibly lead to a legal issue...
It's not an exploit. It's just the way it works. There will be people who will do this but still it did not represent a significant number vs total players.....not until this video.